Sometimes i think Stealth Rock just shouldn't exist... The concept of Spikes isn't bad, it doesn't affect pokes by type so directly as Stealth Rock does. That one move just makes some types 'less' than other types, and that's kinda sad. I wouldn't mind if they make it even more restricted than it is now (TM gone), because it would make pokes good because of what they have and what they can give, not because they have a type disadvantage to Rock.
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Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th
- Thread starter Firestorm
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As long as Pokémon can use Stealth Rock, it will still be a huge impact on the metagame. Ice types are virtually worthless defensively because they get destrolished by Rock moves, along with Fighting moves. Some Ice types stand out, but a vast majority of them (Kyurem included) get wrecked by a simple entry hazard. In Kyurem's case, its' Speed stat doesn't help matters much, along with its' weakness to BP and Mach Punch.
I always believed SR is biggest reason why ice types suck, just look at the top 50 in usage, there's only two ice type pokemon: Mamoswine(which receives regular SR damage) and Cloyster(Shell Smash).
Like people have said, Black Kyurem might be good since it looks like it will be able to use electric attacks.
Like people have said, Black Kyurem might be good since it looks like it will be able to use electric attacks.
I once thought that it will be good if the move fails if used by non-Rock-type mons.
GF should make it where if a Rock, Ground, or Steel type switches into Stealth Rock, it absorbs the rocks, just like with Poison types and Toxic Spikes.
Maybe just rock type. If 3 types absorbed it it would be terrible.
What tutors would mostly affect up the metagame? I'm strictly talking about moves that were strictly TM's/Tutors in the past, not new moves altogether (i.e. an aura sphere tutor).
I'm praying gamefreak puts in a Sleep Talk tutor in. Two things off the top of my head that would occur would be a RestTalk+Guts set for Conkledurr and Confagrigos possibly rising up into OU. RestTalk+Guts Conkledurr would make for one of the builkiest and hardest hitting physical tank in the game. RestTalk means Cofagrigous can actually do something in the turns it is and stick around. 145 Defense and an ability as useful as Mummy isn't going to be wasted on a spinblocker. With Mummy, Cofagrigous makes an awesome Scizor counter and a counter to must physical threats in general that rely on their ability in some capacity.
I'm praying gamefreak puts in a Sleep Talk tutor in. Two things off the top of my head that would occur would be a RestTalk+Guts set for Conkledurr and Confagrigos possibly rising up into OU. RestTalk+Guts Conkledurr would make for one of the builkiest and hardest hitting physical tank in the game. RestTalk means Cofagrigous can actually do something in the turns it is and stick around. 145 Defense and an ability as useful as Mummy isn't going to be wasted on a spinblocker. With Mummy, Cofagrigous makes an awesome Scizor counter and a counter to must physical threats in general that rely on their ability in some capacity.
I could care less as long as heat wave, body slam, and dream eater make it back as tutor moves (tm for dream eater, but that's beside the point).
EDIT: Just remembered, earth power. Guaranteeing Hydreigon would shoot up in the ranks if he got it as a tutor move.
This bolded part I'd like to emphasize, as the non-sucky ones kinda got their shit wrecked by SR. Regice, Moltres, Charizard, and Articuno all have the potential to wreck if SR was just not nearly as common or not there (Entei not so much). What I think they should do is make explosion clear stealth rocks from your side of the field, because honestly, rapid spin just isn't widespread enough, and there's nothing similar that actually deals damage (exaggerating rapid spin's power but whatever).
"The pointed rocks were flattened into the ground" Yeah I could see that happening. But that just makes too much sense for Game Freak.
Ya know, they should just make the ability Heavy Metal force entry hazards into the ground, removing them on the switch. Like an instant, unblock-able Rapid Spin. If Magic Bounce is enough to make Espeon & Xatu good, then Bronzong & Aggron should have a field day with that. But Bronzong does miss out on it's own SR with Heavy Metal. A bit of a big trade-off there.
They could do a lot of things, including the aforementioned mechanics or even have Earthquake act as a Rapid Spin so people could still "spin" block you.
Bronzong would probably get into the top 5 of OU and Aggron would likely be in the top 5 of UU. Espeon would fall at least to UU and Xatu would likely be one tier below it.
Volcorona and Dnite become sketchy good.
Bronzong would be out of levitate, meaning it would have to sacrifice one of its best selling points of only a fire weakness. Though I do suppose the trade-off could be worth it.
In addition, Espeon would only drop to BL, because it was banned from UU since receiving its ability.
Heatwave Tutor:
Zapdos and Honchkrow could now run it with LightningRod and Moxie
Superpower:
MoxieKrow
Outrage:
DD + MoxieMence
Headbutt:
The only hint of viability for Serene Grace Sawsuck: a 100% accurate STABed 60% Flinching move. Sawsbuck has Thunder Wave and Synthesis but not the bulk to be Jirachi or Togekiss.
FirePunch:
Haxoruss!! He'd happily drop Brick Break for this move. Skarmory is the main target. It still survives a Fire Punch at +1 (66.46 - 78.44%) but the unboosted attack has a chance to 2HKO. SD set would kill everything slower.
Ice Punch:
Gliscor will have a lot more to fear from Conkeldurr if he gets hold of this one.
Sucker Punch:
Every dark type would love this: Krookodile, Hydreigon, Scrafty
Heal Bell:
Dragonite coud run it with Multiscale.
Focus Punch:
Bisharp's sub set would love a better Fighting attack than BB. He could get Superpower too.
Those are a few that came to mind.
Dragon Pulse would probably be more likely, though that's still probably a stretch
I'd like to point out for a moment that dual SR weakness is not enough to condemn a Pokemon to sub-OU. Ho-oh is Ubers, and VERY comfortable there. It's also worth noting that its speed is only 90. However, it has an EXTREMELY good stat distribution that allows it to soak up a ton of Special damage as well as a solid movepool (notably containing Recover to heal up damage and Sacred Fire to burn physical attackers). One or both of these new Kyurem formes have the possibility to hit Ubers depending on stat distribution and movepool. If little changes with either of these, though, we're going to go nowhere with these new legendaries.
There is also the possibility of some moves returning as TMs, since you can't trade them.
Notable ex-TMs that may return are:
-Body Slam
-Double-Edge
-Counter
-Curse
-Seismic Toss
-Elemental Punches
-Focus Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Giga Drain
-Roost
-Dragon Pulse
-Drain Punch
-Stealth Rock
-Dark Pulse
-Sleep Talk
Notable ex-TMs that may return are:
-Body Slam
-Double-Edge
-Counter
-Curse
-Seismic Toss
-Elemental Punches
-Focus Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Giga Drain
-Roost
-Dragon Pulse
-Drain Punch
-Stealth Rock
-Dark Pulse
-Sleep Talk
I love how every single speculation thread ends up in a Stealth Rock discussion.
For all of you complaining about kyremes stealth rock weakness, just use it as an offensive lead, and guess what it can work without hail. Its bulk is also surprisingly good, it can live nearly any priority move it is above 70% and it can live a scizors bp at 90% health, just somthing to think about
We weren't only complaining about the Kyurem forms actually, we were just uselessly feeling bad about how bad the situation is for many Ice, Flying, Fire and Bug-types with SR around.
I didn't know the elemental punches were TMs....? Also, these moves are not gonna be available through TMs, they don't simply add TMs in one same generation. They may be distributed to more pokemon through move tutors though.
And oh yeah, NO STEALTH ROCK TM EVER AGAIN, PLEASE. That shit is already too spread out like this imo. Horrible move, SR, it changes the metagame too much for too many otherwise good pokes.
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