Long post with lots of dissenting opinions ahead:
Chou Toshio said:
Gyarados gets points for coming really early. The early grind is annoying, but frankly it's not a big deal, and if you're using it to it's best effect it's awesome-- and awesome not only for the tail end of this game, but for about 80% of the whole adventure. High Tier definitely.
Gyarados does not come really early, Magikarp does. If you could fish up a L19 Magikarp with the Old Rod in Vermillion City, I'd say sure, this thnig is High/Top tier. But instead, I have to crawl through Mt Moon and the places that lie beyond to level it up. There are so many Pokemon available that can at leat earn EXP for themselves and OHKO 70% of the things Gyarados does, and if you advocate Gyarados for High you're putting a ton of them below him.
I don't have the exact numbers at hand but if I recall correctly this thing needs somewhere between 100 and 900 EXP per level up from 5 to 19. That probably means it needs like 7000 EXP (and the Rare Candy). And Magikarp can't get the EXP himself: you need to lead him, switch him out for your juggernaut (who then takes a hit), KOs whatever, switch back to Magikarp, etc. Then Magikarp gets like 100 EXP for a Trainer battle and more like 30 for a wild Pokemon. 70 trainer Pokemon. That's an estimate of what Magikarp needs. The exact number could be different but it's still a terrible prospect.
Hemp Man said:
Another good point is that its the earliest Water type if you didn't choose Squritle. The next Water type you can get is Vaperon, but that means you miss out on Jolteon and Flareon (the former is great, and the latter isn't as bad as its reputation states it out to be). You get a lot of good Water Pokemon later on at Seaform, but by then you pretty much should have someone with Surf.
It actually takes until Cerulean/Vermillionish for that Water-type to be for anything but show, and against the upcoming 2 gym leaders you don't even want a Water-type (Surge and Erika). Water is not especially good vs Team Rocket, and if you don't have a Water-type you probably have something else that can take the Water Gun/Bubblebeam TMs to take care of things like Geodudes and Cubones. My point being: you do not need a perfectly arranged team representing every type under the sun. If you do want a Water-type for Blaine and Giovanni, there's the trade Seel, and random things at Seafoam, and Lapras I guess.
NixHex said:
I really like this post. Let's not encourage OHKO move sweeps. Over 1/5 of the entire game can pull it off and it kills the spirit of this project.
OHKO sweep is fine and should be considered. The great thing about Dewgong is not just that it can Horn Drill: it can survive the initial turns to X Speed/Accuracy up, and it can save PP by using Surf/Blizzard against some enemies (you don't get infinite Ethers/Elixirs). I don't advocate assuming solo playthroughs, but you should be giving credit where it's due. A Pokemon that needs X Accuracy/Horn Drill to KO things at all? Sure, that's bad. But Dewgong sweeps the last two gym leaders with Surf/Blizard.
Pocket said:
Hypno is a beast. You can capture Drowzee relatively early. It learns Hypnosis, so you can teach it Dream Eater to pretty much pawn everything. It learns Psychic at a reasonable level, too. It's good bulk and special combined with the ability to sleep Pokemon and heal itself with Dream Eater is much appreciated. This guy is definitely High / Top-tier material.
Hypnosis/Dream Eater is way too clunky on a slow Pokemon like Drowzee. Hypnosis is inaccurate, and every time they wake up you need to put them back to sleep again (if they're faster, you also miss with Dream Eater). Drowzee does learn Psychic at 32, but it also evolves to Hypno at 26, who learns Psychic at 37. So either you're going to be pressing B a lot and running around with an underpowered Pokemon, or you won't have Psychic for a while. Once he gets Psychci, he should be good to go, and Confusion itself is decent, but this is High tier at best, definitely not Top. Also Dream Eater requires you to walk all the way back to Viridian with the Cut HM.
Also @everyone who gives Pokemon bonus points for being HM slaves: I don't agree with this. Grabbing something that can use HMs for you is as easy as falling out of bed. Most HM moves can be put on something on your team with minimal impact, or even benefit. Surf and Fly are often your best Flying options, Strength is a decent attack, and Cut is almost as decent, and you shouldn't use Flash at all. HM slaving is a low wage job: if you wouldn't be able to do it, someone else on the team would.
Example of why I said this:
Hemp Man said:
You get a lot of good Water Pokemon later on at Seaform, but by then you pretty much should have someone with Surf.
This "someone with Surf" could be a L10 Goldeen that isn't doing anything for my team. It does not compete with the Seafoam Sailors in any way, and is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand.