if you have no cc except initiations
and the other team picks kat
you're gonna have a bad time.
and the other team picks kat
you're gonna have a bad time.
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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
Some really cool tips about Riven:
You know how your ult has a sort of delay where Riven rises her sword and just stands still? If you e right after pressing r, that animation delay gets cancelled and you e right away with your sword full.
If you q, q, q and then flash almost immediately but before Riven actually slams the ground and sends the shockwave, she retains the animation through the flash and the knockback effect happens wherever you are flashing. This is really awesome for catching people off guard because it's not very well known, and its better than flash+w'ing because you can w right away to lock them down for longer.
Also if you q, q, and then e and q before the e dash ends, the shockwave thing comes out with no animation but I've never actually found this useful. I guess it comes a little faster than normal third q but it also takes away the dash part of it since it only delivers the shockwave and damage so it may be useful if you need to like interrupt kat ult or nunu ult really really fast since seconds sometimes are immensely important.
You know how your ult has a sort of delay where Riven rises her sword and just stands still? If you e right after pressing r, that animation delay gets cancelled and you e right away with your sword full.
If you q, q, q and then flash almost immediately but before Riven actually slams the ground and sends the shockwave, she retains the animation through the flash and the knockback effect happens wherever you are flashing. This is really awesome for catching people off guard because it's not very well known, and its better than flash+w'ing because you can w right away to lock them down for longer.
Also if you q, q, and then e and q before the e dash ends, the shockwave thing comes out with no animation but I've never actually found this useful. I guess it comes a little faster than normal third q but it also takes away the dash part of it since it only delivers the shockwave and damage so it may be useful if you need to like interrupt kat ult or nunu ult really really fast since seconds sometimes are immensely important.
I posted about this earlier but Vayne and Kog don't have the earlygame presence in the push-heavy, take turrets and shove shove playing style (notably that we saw in Azubu Blaze vs TSM where Blaze just shoved hard) that is becoming popular in tournaments.
Graves, Corki and Ezreal are all significantly less skill for better early/midgames. However even Ezreal isn't really picked on a push comp because he doesn't have the waveclear Corki and Graves do. If Sivir got a range buff she would 100% be picked a LOT more in tourneys because she can trade and has great waveclear so she is wonderful for (split) pushing.
Also Vayne is the one AD who does "well" vs Graves because a skilled Vayne player will Q out of his Q and take no damage.
Really it's just Vayne (and Kog) have relatively poor earlygames and no free blink/dash (Tumble doesn't go through walls). Kog isn't played much either since AP Kog nerf took out AD Kog's poke ults b/c of the mana costs. Kog has no mobility, Vayne does have "escapes" in that she can stun someone off her and tumble away but she can't go through walls. Tristana has a poor midgame because her burst drops off so she isn't picked a ton either.
As CLG.EU proved in Game 1 vs Fnatic, the hypercarries are still entirely terrifying. You just do not win if you let them farm, and people still do pick Vayne, just infrequently. Doublelift, Aphromoo and Nien are all big fans of her and very skilled, Cop is learning her and some other NA ADs will play her too, but she's not popular in Europe I think. Some of the Asian metas love her though, I think Korean? She has her fans but the current earlygame-centric push heavy meta has left her behind more than the other ADs.
edit: to clarify though you didn't ask about Kog, he's in the same boat as Vayne.
The difference is Kog has NO way to get someone off him besides his slow but that's jukeable, which is why Protect the Kog comps are what he usually is seen on. He also doesn't have as weak of an earlygame as Vayne, just no escapes.
Lategame, Kog is a long-range siege hypercarry while Vayne is a single-target high-mobility "catch me if you can noobs" hypercarry. The fact she's single target is also why she isn't as popular in tourneys.
Well, DontMashMe made a Vayne guide on Solomid, so he might be learning her too.
grats to sm64 for getting his guide on solomid approved!
http://www.youtube.com/user/IntelExtremeMasters
VODs of all Gamescom tourney matches, for anyone who wants to watch but didn't (they were European timezones). No Vayne all tourney and Kog is only in CLG.EU vs Fnatic 1.
VODs of all Gamescom tourney matches, for anyone who wants to watch but didn't (they were European timezones). No Vayne all tourney and Kog is only in CLG.EU vs Fnatic 1.
most recently in IGN I have seen Corki go Triforce-BT-LW- situational(Banshee's, PD, Guardian, IE) stuff like that.
tforce gives you better burst as well as a bit of survivability in movespeed and heath, ie puts out more dps over the course of a teamfight. I used to be adamantly against going tforce first, but I'm less harsh on it now; corki has great burst and augmenting it further with a tforce proc makes sense if you want to try and snowball further ahead. It DOES put out less dps in a teamfight though and the kicker for me is that corki's passive true damage doesn't scale with tforce proc but it DOES scale with crit, and thus the 50% crit damage bonus from ie. On the other hand I think everyone has seen imaqtpie's black cleaver rush corki and i've even seen a bloodthirster rush corki once in a tourney so he's pretty versatile.
tl;dr tforce or ie is usually, i personally like ie, but pick whichever one feels better
tl;dr tforce or ie is usually, i personally like ie, but pick whichever one feels better
This is going to seem super illegit but, I remember reading something somewhere where a pro said that triforce is usually better unless you have a double AP team.
However, I do remember reading that going double PD instead of last whisper, if you're not going triforce, works pretty well with corki. and you can find that argument here:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/...leman-gustaf/21273-yelling-about-last-whisper
You can read the comments for some counterpoints, but it seems fairly reasonable.
tforce is better. a large amount of his damage output comes from constantly using his spells with his autos during trades and team fights ( as opposed to graves for example who would EQW and try to auto as much as possible ) so AS isnt as useful on him as other champs. he still of course needs to get AS but 30% seems like "enough" for all the other things he gets with tforce. really any stat you can pick on tforce corki benefits more from than most other ads and it all really adds up. also ever since they nerfed PD so it is the same MS as tforce there really isnt any reason to go PD. it can be hard to notice the real strength of tforce since the damage is kind of spread out and it also provides some utility and defense, unlike IE where its really easy to see that "yeah my crits hurt"
people usually go Tforce->BT instead of tforce-> IE because tforce + IE costs too much for how low your crit chance is going to be at that point, which is even further discouraged by your lower attack speed. last whisper is a natural progression damage wise, but if your opponents dont have that much armor or you need defense you can go qss for mr/cc counter or GA for general protection. if you think you need damage after the BT but the opponents armor still isnt high enough to warrant LW just get a pickaxe then your defensive item.
dont
people usually go Tforce->BT instead of tforce-> IE because tforce + IE costs too much for how low your crit chance is going to be at that point, which is even further discouraged by your lower attack speed. last whisper is a natural progression damage wise, but if your opponents dont have that much armor or you need defense you can go qss for mr/cc counter or GA for general protection. if you think you need damage after the BT but the opponents armor still isnt high enough to warrant LW just get a pickaxe then your defensive item.
dont
imo it depends on situation
i tend to get triforce for utility; if my other lanes are doing decently well, if i want to push an early advantage in lane, if i want to abuse sheen and phage procs to win lane and move into a more mobile mid-game. triforce promotes mobility and catching people with phage procs and is better in small skirmishes where that slow is important, as is the movespeed. an early sheen/phage, like i said before, also lets you punish your opponent for being behind more than a BF sword would.
if it's relatively even or if we're down kills, i'll probably go IE since it's unlikely we'll be abusing slows or sheen procs in lane, or using a lucky phage proc to start a jungle skirmish that we probably won't win. i'll go BT if my lane lacks sustain and it looks like we're going to have a long laning phage - otherwise, IE it is.
in either case i generally go IE+TF as my two core items regardless of which one i build first, although i will occasionally get a fast GA as my second core if the situation calls for it
i tend to get triforce for utility; if my other lanes are doing decently well, if i want to push an early advantage in lane, if i want to abuse sheen and phage procs to win lane and move into a more mobile mid-game. triforce promotes mobility and catching people with phage procs and is better in small skirmishes where that slow is important, as is the movespeed. an early sheen/phage, like i said before, also lets you punish your opponent for being behind more than a BF sword would.
if it's relatively even or if we're down kills, i'll probably go IE since it's unlikely we'll be abusing slows or sheen procs in lane, or using a lucky phage proc to start a jungle skirmish that we probably won't win. i'll go BT if my lane lacks sustain and it looks like we're going to have a long laning phage - otherwise, IE it is.
in either case i generally go IE+TF as my two core items regardless of which one i build first, although i will occasionally get a fast GA as my second core if the situation calls for it
I personally go Sheen > Bloodthirster > Triforce on Ezreal and Phage > IE > Triforce on Corki and I'm pretty happy with the results.
wriggles gives armour and free wards, you can get a phage or heart of gold if you need health
If I'm laning i prefer the dorans blades though, to dominate the laning phase.
Are there any ad carries that you wouldn't get 1-3 dorans blades on? I seem to always get them, even when I'm super-fed. Normally i prefer heading back to lane with zerkers+2 blades rather than a BF sword with boots.
And IE is the most effective damage item in the game, I get it first or second 99% of the time.
If I'm laning i prefer the dorans blades though, to dominate the laning phase.
Are there any ad carries that you wouldn't get 1-3 dorans blades on? I seem to always get them, even when I'm super-fed. Normally i prefer heading back to lane with zerkers+2 blades rather than a BF sword with boots.
And IE is the most effective damage item in the game, I get it first or second 99% of the time.
dorans are good on every ad carry, buy them if you reckon you need them, obviously you get your ie and triforce and bt etc faster if you don't buy them but you risk losing lane
you are quite right in that zerkers + 2 dorans is stronger for lane than boots + bf sword but think about whether or not you can stay safe with the bf sword/whether you can press the advantage with the dorans
corki and ezreal have the luxury of building phage into inf edge for laning purposes (chug potions because lifesteal in lane is overrated)
you are quite right in that zerkers + 2 dorans is stronger for lane than boots + bf sword but think about whether or not you can stay safe with the bf sword/whether you can press the advantage with the dorans
corki and ezreal have the luxury of building phage into inf edge for laning purposes (chug potions because lifesteal in lane is overrated)