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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
I've been trying out Alistar again this season, and I've been having a lot more success with him then I did last season. He feels a little awkward though, kind of like Karma.
His playstyle really doesn't help with that as well. Once you Q and W, you can't do anything until your Q and W are off cooldown, so you have to build CDR to lessen the period where you're completely useless. But since most of the time you're gonna be right in the middle of the action, you also have to get tanky, and because you're support you have to get sightstone. You have all these things that you have to build at once, and so there's no build to recommend past an early core.
I normally start two wards, 7 health pots, and 2 mana pots. This start is pretty unconventional, but since I like to rush sightstone it works pretty well for me. All of the pots allow me to stay in lane until natural generation gets me to 700 gold. When I get there, I wait until my AD carry wants to back (I always back with my AD so that neither of us gets destroyed without the other), and then pick up Sightstone+Flask or Boots. By the end of the laning phase, I want to have Sightstone+Merc Treads+Kindlegem.
From there, you can build pretty much any bulk items you want and get away with it. I've done Sunfire+Abyssal before when I got really fed on assists, but normally I just get Ruby Sightstone, build Runic Bulwark, and then convert Kindlegem to Shurelia's, and by the time I do that the game's normally over.
I'd rather pick Alistar over Leona to go against Blitzcrank because at least Alistar can disengage well with his W whereas Leona if you don't go in correctly you're going to lose the lane due to her lack of sustain.
Alistar super strong but you have to know how to play him, his kit has both sustain and peel which is great (that's why they've had to nerf Alistar several times and I'm not even talking about now I'm talking a year+ ago also). Still one of the strongest supports in the game along with Janna (who no one plays anymore because it actually requires some thinking about what to do instead of oh just shield AD carry they get +50 AD no matter what).
I prefer to max Q mainly because I'm better at hitting those but some people prefer to max out W because it has a shorter cooldown when you max it out and is more reliable (point and click skill instead of hope you get them in the AOE). There's no point in goign 7/2 in potions if you just go flask because if you find yourself needing to use all 7 health potions then you're probably doing something wrong because that's 1050 HP in terms of HP pots. Flask would be better as both an investment and actual healing because Alistar can always convert mana into health through his E.
Mordekaiser is a lot stronger than people think, it's hard for AP mids to deal with the wave and Morde at the same time. The 13 health pot start is exceptionally strong because all he wants to do is get his Revolver ASAP and getting more potions lets him stay in lane longer to get more CS. If you feel like that's too dangerous, 11 pots + ward is fine also to protect against jungle ganks for that long.
IIRC buying IP boosts is a waste of time because you have to play an above average amount of games (several hours worth) in order to actually get enough IP to buy an expensive champion with and it's better off to just buy the champion using the RP that you would've bought the IP boost with.
Alistar super strong but you have to know how to play him, his kit has both sustain and peel which is great (that's why they've had to nerf Alistar several times and I'm not even talking about now I'm talking a year+ ago also). Still one of the strongest supports in the game along with Janna (who no one plays anymore because it actually requires some thinking about what to do instead of oh just shield AD carry they get +50 AD no matter what).
I prefer to max Q mainly because I'm better at hitting those but some people prefer to max out W because it has a shorter cooldown when you max it out and is more reliable (point and click skill instead of hope you get them in the AOE). There's no point in goign 7/2 in potions if you just go flask because if you find yourself needing to use all 7 health potions then you're probably doing something wrong because that's 1050 HP in terms of HP pots. Flask would be better as both an investment and actual healing because Alistar can always convert mana into health through his E.
Mordekaiser is a lot stronger than people think, it's hard for AP mids to deal with the wave and Morde at the same time. The 13 health pot start is exceptionally strong because all he wants to do is get his Revolver ASAP and getting more potions lets him stay in lane longer to get more CS. If you feel like that's too dangerous, 11 pots + ward is fine also to protect against jungle ganks for that long.
IIRC buying IP boosts is a waste of time because you have to play an above average amount of games (several hours worth) in order to actually get enough IP to buy an expensive champion with and it's better off to just buy the champion using the RP that you would've bought the IP boost with.
What about buying runes?
Well considering you can only buy runes through IP, if you have the money to spare then go for it but I personally wouldn't do it because # of wins boosts suck and per day boosts are only reliable if you know you won't be interrupted (aka anything more than 3 days and it's kinda risky due to real life obligations).
She can protext with all her abilities. Stun, Slow, AOE Disengage via wall. The only reason she is underutillized is her mana costs. If you look at all her spells the cost TONS of mana. Her stun costs like 90 Mana at level 1. She'd pretty much work well as a support if you had an AD caster mid and a Tank top while your jungler was a standard support jungler. she'd require tons of blue buff to be effective which would mean you'd be going top if you are Blue side and bot if you are Purple side. She also requires the ability to farm up some of the necessary items to make her viable as a support since she's mana hungry 90% of the time. In other words it really would be hard to pull off and wouldn't work in a normal setting.
anivia support is essentially a different version of taric where you trade a reliable stun, a heal, an armor buff, and an attack steroid for more damage and a wall. flash frost is not nearly as reliable as dazzle but deals quite a bit more damage - however, if you do end up maxing wall first then taric will outdamage your Q+E combo by level 6. wall, however, is exceptional at forcing ganks against any AD carry without a gap closer (MF, twitch, ashe, draven, varus - i'm not sure if graves and caitlyn can dash through wall but i think they can)
i will say, however, that supports have been getting more and more unconventional as of late. first moscow five popularizes zyra support at S3 worlds and now teams are running more and more lux, fiddlesticks, morgana, and leblanc support (azubu frost loves lux support while at least three games have featured leblanc support in OGN winter so far)
i will say, however, that supports have been getting more and more unconventional as of late. first moscow five popularizes zyra support at S3 worlds and now teams are running more and more lux, fiddlesticks, morgana, and leblanc support (azubu frost loves lux support while at least three games have featured leblanc support in OGN winter so far)
support anivia is essentially crippled by her mana costs, she just can't sustain them or get the gold needed to buy mana items to sustain.
idk why you'd do it, anivia is way better as a mid and you could have someone like zyra who never goes oom while bringing big troll E to the table.
morgana functions well as a support because black shield doesn't need tear/catalyst/chalice for her to spam it (just the CDR supports build) and black shield OP af if she can just shield her carry. she can also pick up hourglass and still have a possible 5 man stun, 5 man slow at the least, and if she catches someone in binding it doesn't matter if she's ap or support.
lux is the more aggressive in lane version of this, 2 chances to hit binding but support lux does a lot less lategame imo, she does have a lot of free vision though casting E and even her no CD ult and if you can hit all 5 members of your team with your shield both ways then you blocked massive dmg.
zyra's plants can legit solo squishy supports plus her snare is the superior version of morg and lux's in that nothing blocks it, also if you land a clutch ult for the knockup you can easily turn the tides of a fight singlehandedly. she works well enough as support and has minimal mana costs while providing some vision as well.
note that these champions do not have an ult that drains their mana to no end - support anivia can't leave her ult on like ap anivia could (neither do fiddle and leblanc, each of whom work for their poke and CC [lb has a silence and 2 snares as well as reliable escapes]). the mana costs are why anivia isn't played support even though she has the utility, you just lose too much compared to someone else who is a better support and doesn't scale as well. I don't think any of the mids mentioned scale as well as anivia does either so they are outclassed mid but outclass her botlane.
also graves/cait/trist/corki/ezreal/vayne can all shift through anivia's wall.
idk why you'd do it, anivia is way better as a mid and you could have someone like zyra who never goes oom while bringing big troll E to the table.
morgana functions well as a support because black shield doesn't need tear/catalyst/chalice for her to spam it (just the CDR supports build) and black shield OP af if she can just shield her carry. she can also pick up hourglass and still have a possible 5 man stun, 5 man slow at the least, and if she catches someone in binding it doesn't matter if she's ap or support.
lux is the more aggressive in lane version of this, 2 chances to hit binding but support lux does a lot less lategame imo, she does have a lot of free vision though casting E and even her no CD ult and if you can hit all 5 members of your team with your shield both ways then you blocked massive dmg.
zyra's plants can legit solo squishy supports plus her snare is the superior version of morg and lux's in that nothing blocks it, also if you land a clutch ult for the knockup you can easily turn the tides of a fight singlehandedly. she works well enough as support and has minimal mana costs while providing some vision as well.
note that these champions do not have an ult that drains their mana to no end - support anivia can't leave her ult on like ap anivia could (neither do fiddle and leblanc, each of whom work for their poke and CC [lb has a silence and 2 snares as well as reliable escapes]). the mana costs are why anivia isn't played support even though she has the utility, you just lose too much compared to someone else who is a better support and doesn't scale as well. I don't think any of the mids mentioned scale as well as anivia does either so they are outclassed mid but outclass her botlane.
also graves/cait/trist/corki/ezreal/vayne can all shift through anivia's wall.
wow vayne tumble actually goes through anivia wall? that's really impressive (then again it can go through jarvan ult so...)
yeah support anivia kinda has potential but at the moment zyra kinda outclasses her unless they reduce anivia's mana costs (in which case she will instantly become much more powerful in mid)
stagnant: support leblanc hasn't been that impressive so far, to be honest. i think she's 1/2 in terms of win/loss at OGN. her snare is limited because it doesn't pass through minions, unlike zyra root, and it's also single-target. she has a lot more burst and harass than just about any other support champion though, so she's good against lanes without a lot of sustain - however, with flask, lots of health pots, and vamp scepter rush being very popular on AD carries in S3, this might not be as huge of an issue as we think it is
yeah support anivia kinda has potential but at the moment zyra kinda outclasses her unless they reduce anivia's mana costs (in which case she will instantly become much more powerful in mid)
stagnant: support leblanc hasn't been that impressive so far, to be honest. i think she's 1/2 in terms of win/loss at OGN. her snare is limited because it doesn't pass through minions, unlike zyra root, and it's also single-target. she has a lot more burst and harass than just about any other support champion though, so she's good against lanes without a lot of sustain - however, with flask, lots of health pots, and vamp scepter rush being very popular on AD carries in S3, this might not be as huge of an issue as we think it is
philo into chalice seems reasonable to me in terms of cost
hi kids
i'm here to tell you to keep it real about mordekaiser
Don't buy these items. All of Morde's spells (apart from the single-target Q which is quite rare) are AoE/DoT spells therefore he gets the reduced effects from passives. The 500 HP you get from Rylai's is a waste of money, too, as he needs resistances (like from Zhonya's/Abyssal/GA) rather than flat HP.
This is good early though. Get this and go for triple pen.
i'm here to tell you to keep it real about mordekaiser
Don't buy these items. All of Morde's spells (apart from the single-target Q which is quite rare) are AoE/DoT spells therefore he gets the reduced effects from passives. The 500 HP you get from Rylai's is a waste of money, too, as he needs resistances (like from Zhonya's/Abyssal/GA) rather than flat HP.
This is good early though. Get this and go for triple pen.
A lot more unconventional supports are much better now that supports get so much more gold to play with. I think support Nidalee is actually pretty damn legit now. On Anivia I think mana is a smaller issue as a support than it is as an AP mid because, as a support, you'll have extra regen through Philo and aren't expected to deal tons of damage anyway.
my problem with nidalee support is that the only advantage she really has over nunu is her heal. if you max spear first you have unreliable poke and very little sustain/AS for your AD carry while if you max heal first you have almost no damage whatsoever
late-game her ultimate is basically useless because she has very little farm and therefore very little damage and will melt instantly if she jumps in. plus her steroid arguably falls short to nunu's despite having a higher %AS bonus because nunu gives MS and can constantly keep BB up
the next unconventional support that people aren't really playing yet is elise, in my opinion. her Q has very high base damage mid and late-game simply because it's percentage based, so you can rush early magic pen and transition into tanky AP. most top laners are already building something like warmog's+shurelya's on her while only opting for magic pen offensively and still manage to deal a ton of damage later on. cocoon is a snare and elise is pretty mana-light and not very item-dependent. i think M5 is already experimenting with it, but that's just a rumor.
late-game her ultimate is basically useless because she has very little farm and therefore very little damage and will melt instantly if she jumps in. plus her steroid arguably falls short to nunu's despite having a higher %AS bonus because nunu gives MS and can constantly keep BB up
the next unconventional support that people aren't really playing yet is elise, in my opinion. her Q has very high base damage mid and late-game simply because it's percentage based, so you can rush early magic pen and transition into tanky AP. most top laners are already building something like warmog's+shurelya's on her while only opting for magic pen offensively and still manage to deal a ton of damage later on. cocoon is a snare and elise is pretty mana-light and not very item-dependent. i think M5 is already experimenting with it, but that's just a rumor.
I haven't played morde in a while but isn't Rylai's supposed to be good on him because he has no cc and he gets resistances from his W and ghost? Not to mention his cooldowns are decent enough to keep a perpetual slow
How do you people recommend building Rumble? I'm rocking pretty standard runes/masteries for a tanky AP. I generally start flask+wards because im terrified of early ganks and shit. I usually don't level up flamethrower until level 4 or so because it just pushes the lane so hard and if you get caught and killed in an early level 2 or 3 gank then you've pretty much lost lane and maybe the game in this crazy snowballing-top metagame.
I try for revolver+boots on first back and then go for merc treads, haunting guise and blasting wand (in that order of priority) next back. From there I prioritize Rylai's>Liandry's>Rabadon's>Zhonya's>GA.
I could probably be doing some things better with my build and approach. Halp?
I try for revolver+boots on first back and then go for merc treads, haunting guise and blasting wand (in that order of priority) next back. From there I prioritize Rylai's>Liandry's>Rabadon's>Zhonya's>GA.
I could probably be doing some things better with my build and approach. Halp?