Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Why all of a sudden an A+Rank mon must be uncheckable/uncounterable? Of course gyarados has problems with rotom-w, ferrothorn and subtoxicroak which are its biggest counters, theres no denial. What pushes gyarados to A+Rank is its ability to sweep easily with excellent coverage, rain boosted stab while avoiding revenge killers with substitute and being downright unstoppable once moxie boosts get going. Stop saying that x scarfer revenge kills gyarados. Thats not what happens since setuping a sub in something like what Lunatic Lies mentioned is the first thing its going to do:
Scizor, CC locked Terrakion, Surf/SS Keldeo, Draco locked Latios, Celebi, Volcarona, Spec D Jirachi, Toxicroak, Non-Specs Politoed, Breloom (When running Intimidate), Donphan, EQ or Fire move locked Chomp and SR Chomp with Dragon Claw (With Intimidate), Bulk Up Conk, Gastrodon, Gliscor, Heatran, Infernape lacking Stone Edge, Landorus without Psychic, Tentacruel, and Vaporeon lacking Roar
Gyarados needs nothing more than one single opportunity to destroy teams and there are very few answers for it. Its one of the best sweepers atm boasting excellent bulk, power, typing and the ability to setup on several threats. I seriously cant argue more than this. Its been already said multiple times and if you dont want to agree theres literally nothing more that can be said.

 

[Magcargo]

Nominating skarmory for top A-Rank
While the defensive set is mid A-tier worthy, I think that skarmory's lead set is enough to warrant a spot in high A-rank or even low S-rank. Skarmory is the fastest pokemon with sturdy to get both forms of entry hazards and taunt. Thanks to sturdy, skarmory is guaranteed to setup at least two layers of hazards, as long as the foe doesn't have a magic bounce, or priority user. Thanks to taunt, slow walls like ferrothorn and setup sweepers like breloom cannot setup on it as it is setting up hazards.
While rapid spin users and magic bounce users like espeon and starmie spell trouble for skarmory, Skarmory's main offensive partner, gengar, can beat all of the spinners/magic bounce users if it is wielding a choice scarf and switches into the correct move.
The hazards the skarmory provide are extremely useful for hyper offensive teams since offensive teams generally force a ton of switches and the hazards skarmory provides punishes switching.
While not as good as deoxys-d, skarmory isn't very far from it in terms of providing hazards and High A-Rank/Low S-Rank would be a decent position for it.

I think that this nomination needs more discussion.

Also, does anyone else think that latias could potentially move up to S-Rank? In the current metagame, Latias checks two of the best special attackers in the tier (keldeo and landorus), as well as the two best weathers in the metagame (Sun and Rain). Thank to its amazing speed, latias can outspeed a large portion of the metagame, and either setup calm minds, or fire off Draco Meteors off of its decent base 110 special attack. Of course, Latias has several major flaws, such as its inability to get past bulky steel types Jirachi and Ferrothorn, as well as getting destroyed by pursuit users, so I could see it remaining in High A-Rank. However, I feel that its utilities in the current metagame could make it Low S-Rank.

As for Gyarados, I think that some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I don't really have an opinion, but I'm leaning towards keeping Gyarados where it is because while it has amazing typing and stats, it also has a crippling weakness to stealth rock, as well as weakness to electric type moves.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Why all of a sudden an A+Rank mon must be uncheckable/uncounterable? Of course gyarados has problems with rotom-w, ferrothorn and subtoxicroak which are its biggest counters, theres no denial. What pushes gyarados to A+Rank is its ability to sweep easily with excellent coverage, rain boosted stab while avoiding revenge killers with substitute and being downright unstoppable once moxie boosts get going. Stop saying that x scarfer revenge kills gyarados. Thats not what happens since setuping a sub in something like what Lunatic Lies mentioned is the first thing its going to do:
Scizor, CC locked Terrakion, Surf/SS Keldeo, Draco locked Latios, Celebi, Volcarona, Spec D Jirachi, Toxicroak, Non-Specs Politoed, Breloom (When running Intimidate), Donphan, EQ or Fire move locked Chomp and SR Chomp with Dragon Claw (With Intimidate), Bulk Up Conk, Gastrodon, Gliscor, Heatran, Infernape lacking Stone Edge, Landorus without Psychic, Tentacruel, and Vaporeon lacking Roar
Gyarados needs nothing more than one single opportunity to destroy teams and there are very few answers for it. Its one of the best sweepers atm boasting excellent bulk, power, typing and the ability to setup on several threats. I seriously cant argue more than this. Its been already said multiple times and if you dont want to agree theres literally nothing more that can be said.

Okay you're exaggerating that list. First off, in the Rain, Keldeo 2HKOs and OHKOs with Specs Hydro Pump. It's not setting up on Celebi, since Giga Drain and Psychic breaks the Sub, and if Gyarados goes for bounce then Celebi is switching. Gyarados isn't beating Toxicroak, as its immune to Waterfall and its going to switch out on the bounce or sub itself. Now that list doesn't seem very impressive does it?

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with your statements, but that's your opinion I guess, and I have to respect that. We'll have to let PK decide.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

''So Gyarados switches in, takes Stealth Rock damage''
... Im done with this. Im literally sick of people assuming stealth rocks damage in every single argument against gyarados when this is not what happens in practice. Also no, i have beaten ferrothorn many times before with subdd and not everyone runs power whip anyway.
@ShootingStarmie252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados in rain: 219-258 (62.03 - 73.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
._.
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 82-97 (23.22 - 27.47%) -- possible 5HKO
._.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

Pick a fucking set you want to talk about. Enough with the damn cherry picking. I was talking about SubDD, the one that's being proposed to move it to A+.

-Face palm- Missed the point so hard. It doesn't even need protect, power whip is good enough. @Lunatic Lies, your logic is awful, please come up with a better argument. It's pissing me off.

It's out of bias, which is basically the same thing. I haven't seen one good argument otherwise. And like I said before, if anything, Gyarados fits more to B+ than A+.

Holy shit you're a hyprocrit lol. And rather dumb as well. You don't look at only one set when nominating a change to its ranking. You have to consider all sets. Gyarados loses to Ferro when Ferro is running Protect. If Ferro lacks Protect, it becomes a mind game between Substitute and Dragon Dance for the Dos user, and Power Whip and Leech Seed/Thunder Wave for the Ferro user. And you're pissing nearly everyone in this thread off. I'm not trying to start I fight, but you really pissed me off with that comment. And its not out of bias that some people want an above average OU Pokemon that can take advantage of Rain to move into the A+ rank. It would be bias if people wanted Charizard to move into A rank because it has a deadly Solar Power set in sun. I also realize that you can't handle all of his counters and checks with one set, but you must know what set it is running to decide what counter to use. One set can handle Rotom-W better, while one handles Skarmory better. Also, please come up with a better argument than "It's out of bias"

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Actually power whip has 16 pp but with that 85% accuracy it might as well not even hit enough times to beat gyarados.

 

[Gary]

Yeah this is really getting out of hand. I don't see why we have to bring up these random scenarios in how Ferrothorn can beat Gyarados, when a lot of times it depends on the skill of the player. Yes, Ferrothorn CAN beat Gyarados if the player knows how to play around Sub DD Gyarados, but it is not always guaranteed. We get the point, some of you don't feel that Gyarados deserves to be A+, there is absolutely no need for people to go off on a complete tangent about this. It's a fucking viability ranking thread, not the official tier list or something. Why is it that people take this thread so seriously? We get it, Gyarados may not belong in A+ rank, so lets please move on before I throw up. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

SO MOVING ON....

I think that this nomination needs more discussion.

Also, does anyone else think that latias could potentially move up to S-Rank? In the current metagame, Latias checks two of the best special attackers in the tier (keldeo and landorus), as well as the two best weathers in the metagame (Sun and Rain). Thank to its amazing speed, latias can outspeed a large portion of the metagame, and either setup calm minds, or fire off Draco Meteors off of its decent base 110 special attack. Of course, Latias has several major flaws, such as its inability to get past bulky steel types Jirachi and Ferrothorn, as well as getting destroyed by pursuit users, so I could see it remaining in High A-Rank. However, I feel that its utilities in the current metagame could make it Low S-Rank.

Anyways, I don't know how I feel about putting Latias in S-rank. Latias is easily one of the greatest tanks in this metagame, capable of patching up a lot of common weaknesses against rain and sun teams, while also providing offensive pressure in the process. On top of that, Latias can run one of the meanest CM sweeping sets in the OU metagame, capable of sweeping at the very beginning of the game even with a Steel-type present. Lastly, Latias is fast, capable of outspeeding most of the unboosted metagame and more. The only problems I see, are that she faces stiff competition from her twin Latios in the offensive department, while the latter can be said about Latios with him missing the defense that Latias has. Latias is easy as fuck to Pursuit trap because of her lack of power, bulky Tyranitar barely taking 30% from Surf and Scizor fearing only HP Fire variants. As long as T-Tar is still alive, Latias is always in trouble, and she has to be extremely wary of what she KOs, lest Scizor or T-Tar get a free switch-in. Overall, Latias is easily a very high ranking Pokemon that is definitely underrated in today's metagame, but she doesn't have a big enough impact on the metagame or a huge defining trait that some of the S-rank Pokemon have. I think A+ rank is fine for now.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

I think Latias is fine where it is. It is fantastic at its many roles, and is one of the premiere bulky attackers of the tier, being able to provide key resistances while keeping great offensive pressure. It helps wall many of the most popular attackers of the tier such as Keldeo, Politoed, Rotom-W, and Breloom. It also has a nice amount of versatility by either being a threatening set-up sweeper, capable of taking on both Sun and Rain teams and being able to set-up on many common Pokemon in the tier. The next most common set is just a straight up bulky attacker, and threatening with LO boosted Draco Meteors and good nice coverage for basically whatever your team needs. It also has very reliable recovery, and is fantastic at forcing switches. There's also the rare possibility of it being a dual screener with Healing Wish to help out a teammate, and this can put many teams in a bind since it is so unexpected. The next thing that put Latias where it is is its movepool and amount of options for each set. You can run Reflect Type on the CM set so you can beat Tyranitar, Refresh to you can be safe from status, HP Fire to hit Scizor, Substitute to prevent status and possibly get an extra kill, or you can run another coverage move to hit whatever you would like to, such as using Surf to hit Heatran. On the LO set you can pretty much run whatever coverage moves help your team much. This being said, there are some thing keeping Latias from being S-Rank. It is very vulnerable to the popular core of U-turn Landorus + Tyranitar, which greatly hinders it from doing its job of walling Landorus and Keldeo. It is also vulnerable to priority in the form of Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, and Extremespeed. Scizor is especially a problem for Latias, as it can play mind games with it in predicting whether it will use Bullet Punch or U-Turn. It also suffers from 4mms. If it lacks the extra coverage move on the CM set, then steels can wall it, but with that coverage move it is vulnerable to status. You could drop Recover, but then you lose the ability to recover which is very detrimental. The LO set also suffers from being threatened by steels if it lacks Hidden Power Fire, and Heatran walls it without Surf. So all in all, Latias is definitely one of the top Pokemon in this metagame, being able to function as both an offensive and defensive threat, even both at the same time, but there are certain things holding it back from being in S-Rank, namely its inability to get around certain steels, weakness to most priority, and being vulnerable to being Pursuit trapped.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

O

''So Gyarados switches in, takes Stealth Rock damage''
... Im done with this. Im literally sick of people assuming stealth rocks damage in every single argument against gyarados when this is not what happens in practice. Also no, i have beaten ferrothorn many times before with subdd and not everyone runs power whip anyway.
@ShootingStarmie252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados in rain: 219-258 (62.03 - 73.08%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
._.
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 82-97 (23.22 - 27.47%) -- possible 5HKO
._.

Okay I can see people getting pissed off with arguing about Gyarados (I'm not sure if they're getting off with me so I'm going to make this my last post about Gyarados) but I just wanna say that okay Keldeo doesn't OHKOS, but it still easily 2HKOs so the point still stands. Again with Celebi, Psychic is still breaking the Sub, and I feel your silly faces are just trying to start a flame war (sorry if this wasn't your intention, but that's the general feeling I got when I read your post).

You can respond to this is you want, but I'd rather talk about Skarmory since I've said basically everything I've wanted to say about Gyarados.

I haven't had much experience with Skarmory, so I might make some comments later, but for now I'll let other people do the talking.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

No the faces are just because i was pissed because of the same hazards arguments over and over. Anyway Skarmory is perfectly fine where it is. Its lead set is great in HO teams but it can be stopped by faster taunt users, magic bouncers and spinners can just spam rapid spin in its face.

 

[Ojama]

I'm going to suggest a few things because I disagree with some stuff in the OP.

- Mew for B+ Rank simply because Mew is fantastic and is one of the best Stallbreakers of the game. I would even say A Rank but let's wait until the end of the suspect round. Mew was definitely A+ Rank in BW1 and isn't that much used in BW2 only because of Landorus-I. It's a real good check/counter to Keldeo (unless it's Specs in Rain of course...), to Garchomp etc. Either B+ or A Rank in my opinion.

- Kyurem for A or A+ Rank. Kyurem-B is A+ so I don't see why Kyurem isn't at least A Rank. They almost are the same Pokemon, with a different SAtk and Attack but they both are extremely threatening. Maybe Kyurem-B is A+ because it isn't walled by Chansey/Blissey (and I'm pretty sure Kyurem wins vs Chansey/Blissey because of Pressure and Seismic Toss not breaking the Sub) so yeah Kyurem is at least A Rank.

- Celebi for A rank because Celebi is less good than it was in the beginning of BW2. Too many HP Bug Keldeo, U-Turn Landorus, Tyranitar, Kyurem, Jirachi etc. Celebi really is a Spikes bait and can let set up some of the most threatening Pokemon of the tier. Celebi is definitely not A+ Rank in the current Metagame.

- Ninetales for A Rank just because Ninetales is bad. At least Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Politoed can be great by themselves but this is absolutely not the case with Ninetales, it just sucks. It's 2HKO'd by 98% of the Metagame and is just too weak, Ninetales is A Rank only because of Drought but definitely not A+ Rank.

- Politoed for A+ Rank because I don't see how is Politoed better than Tyranitar or Hippowdon. I really dislike how people claim that Rain Teams are the most broken teams of the tier etc. Politoed itself is less good than Hippowdon and Tyranitar + Sand Teams are at least as good as Rain Teams are. Sand Teams are way more used than Rain Teams as we can see it with WCOP + Smogon Tour.

- Golbat for S Rank because GGolbat is the best.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Yeah really agree with most of that. Celebi has too many weakness, specially its ridiculous abusable dark and bug ones, its also starving for moveslots (if you drop baton pass for some extra coverage or support move you get pursuit trapped) and is often setup bait for many things. Rain teams simply arent on the level of sand offense anymore. I feel like keldeo is the only thing that makes rain even remotely ''broken'' atm but thats why he is S-Rank. Agree with politoed dropping to A+Rank. About kyurem im fine with A-Rank since its very similar to kyurem-b and therefore should stay at least one step below it. Though kyurem-b really should move to s-rank which would probably make kyurem A+. Yeah ninetales really suck but i guess the power of sun teams is just enough to keep it there. Not sure if it should drop or not.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

The main reason Kyurem is in a lower rank is because it is outclassed in every way by Kyurem-B. SubRoost? Kyurem-B may have 10 less Spa, but that matter significantly less when you can now hit Rotom-W and Bronzong with Earth Power and still hit really hard. Mixed Set? Kyurem-B does that much better, as everyone knows. Choice Scarf? Kyurem-B has more defense allowing it to take priority moves better, and it can run an effective mixed scarf with little investment in its Attack stat. The only set that Kyurem really outclasses Kyurem-B in is a Choice Specs set, thanks to its higher Special Attack, but you could even use Kyurem-B for that if you want a better defense stat. Kyurem should be B+ or maybe A, because you should never need to use it, as it has no niche to make it more effective than Kyurem-B at whatever you want it to do.

 

[FrostFire]

Lol, Ho-Oh is Fire/Flying with 90 base speed, and it's a bloody God. Sorry, that just popped in to my mind when I read your post, SmashBrosBrawl.

But yeah, there is a reason why very few pokemon succeed with a Stealth Rock weakness, and that's because it's an amazing move that lots of things get, it's on every team, easy to set up, and Spinning them away is comparatively difficult. You can't say that Gyarados has this amazing bulk to take stuff on, when it's weak to SR, takes Sand damage, and has no reliable recovery. What's more, if you're using Substitute, that's going to eat away at your health too. I think somebody posted above about how Gyarados can simply 'wear down' it's checks or counters, via Substitute; but this is kind of a bad point. If you're using Sub, then your sacrificing 25% of your HP, and this is making the generous assumption that SR won't be on the field. So, whilst Gyarados is attempting to 'wear down' it's own checks and counters, Gyarados gets worn down itself very quickly. This is bad, because Gyarados is slow, so it needs to rely on it's bulk to set up and sweep. But it has no reliable recovery. Do you see what I'm getting at? I actually think Gyarados could have stayed in the now non-existent A- tier; it just doesn't fit in A.

Notes about Volcarona and Dragonite: I would rather use either of these over Gyarados generally speaking, for a few different reasons. Volc has higher speed to begin with, but also gets a Special Defense boost from Quiver Dance and Roost, allowing it to go the bulky route effectively. Dragonite is kinda slow like Gyarados, but it has Multiscale and Roost, both of which are a pretty big deal if you're doing a bulky DD set. Offensive DD is a bit different (I actually don't like it as much, as Sandstorm often negates Multiscale), but it hits like a nuke with Outrage that's for sure. Oh, that was the other thing; Gyarados lacks a really powerful STAB to sweep/ nuke stuff with; Waterfall is significantly weaker than the likes of Outrage, Close Combat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump etc.

So yeah. Gyarados is cool and all, and it isn't explicitly bad, but I've honestly never had trouble with it when facing it on the ladder. Terrakion? Scary. Keldeo? Scary. Breloom? Scary.

Gyarados? Ehhhhh... Could be worse.

EDIT: OK guys, not cool. There were literally over 30 posts in the time that it took me to write this single one. I mean, I did get distracted half-way through, but still. How inconsiderate :p
EDIT2: 36 Actually.
EDIT3: Ohhhhh. I just figured out what I did. I started reading the thread, got to the end of a page, and assumed that was the end; without realising there were more pages @_@ I freely accept the Dunce Hat.

 

[Reymedy]

You didn't mention the Sub/Roost PP Stall set, being as far as I can tell, the only "real niche" Kyurem has over Kyurem-B.
This set in itself is truely underrated and is the best "Hail abuser" available in the current metagame.
I never saw that "Specs Kyurem" you're talking about, but let's say it's another possible advantage of Kyurem...

PP Stall Ferrothorn, who is actually the best Kyurem check Rain teams share is not something you can forget. This thing behind a sub is incredibly hard to take down for defensive teams, if not impossible. It is a lot less useful against offensive teams though.
However, I think B+ is "ok". I mean, he's next to Toxicroak, Stoutland, Lucario etc.. it seems logical in my opinion.

Supporting what has been said by Ojama out of that. Why the fuck is not Golbat on this list already ?
Celebi has been amazing when Genesect, and then Tornadus-T left the OU tier, everybody was like "this is the new shit you gotta play !". And the whole meta reacted to that, along with new Keldeo cores being under the spotlights. Today Celebi is threatened by random unexpected moves, coming out from the top tier threats it was supposed to wall yesterday.

EDIT : Against Rotom-W, you should just keep the sub up while recovering the damages, there is absolutly NOTHING Rotom-W can do to a Kyurem. And he'll eventually run out of HPump PPs.

 

[-Sparkbeat-]

You didn't mention the Sub/Roost PP Stall set, being as far as I can tell, the only "real niche" Kyurem has over Kyurem-B.
This set in itself is truely underrated and is the best "Hail abuser" available in the current metagame.
I never saw that "Specs Kyurem" you're talking about, but let's say it's another possible advantage of Kyurem...

Yeah, I completely forgot about pressure stalling, but you can argue that hitting Rotom-W is more important. And the Specs Kyurem was more theory, I've never seen anyone use it either, but it could be a nice Blizzard spammer in hail.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Whats the difference between gyarados and volcarona speed anyway... They get outsped by the same scarfers. And really i think this discussion has run over its course. These comparisons are pointless and should not hold any weight into gyarados ranking. I dont care what x has over gyarados, this doenst matter. Pokemon are ranked based on what they can do, these comparisons are really getting ridiculous since gyarados has no similarities with volcarona/moltres/dnite other than being sr weak (dd dnite plays completely different than dd gyarados). Also please look at ho-oh stats and movepool.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

The main reason Kyurem is in a lower rank is because it is outclassed in every way by Kyurem-B. SubRoost? Kyurem-B may have 10 less Spa, but that matter significantly less when you can now hit Rotom-W and Bronzong with Earth Power and still hit really hard. Mixed Set? Kyurem-B does that much better, as everyone knows. Choice Scarf? Kyurem-B has more defense allowing it to take priority moves better, and it can run an effective mixed scarf with little investment in its Attack stat. The only set that Kyurem really outclasses Kyurem-B in is a Choice Specs set, thanks to its higher Special Attack, but you could even use Kyurem-B for that if you want a better defense stat. Kyurem should be B+ or maybe A, because you should never need to use it, as it has no niche to make it more effective than Kyurem-B at whatever you want it to do.

I agree with most of your post, but I believe Kyurem also has it a benefit in the form on its ability Pressure. While it can't hit Rotom W or Brongzong, they can really hit it back either. Kyurem is using Rotom W as set up bait, while Bronzong's Gyro Ball is being stalled out as it only has 8pp (4 attacks on Kyurem). Those aren't the only Pokemon its stalling out either. Terrakion, Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Lati@s and many other Pokemon carry moves that only have 8pp, meaning they all can be potential stalled out with the combination of sub roost.

It's a cool Pokemon, and while its generally outclassed by its other form, if you play to its strength it has a lot of potential

 

[Gary]

Lol, Ho-Oh is Fire/Flying with 90 base speed, and it's a bloody God. Sorry, that just popped in to my mind when I read your post, SmashBrosBrawl.

But yeah, there is a reason why very few pokemon succeed with a Stealth Rock weakness, and that's because it's an amazing move that lots of things get, it's on every team, easy to set up, and Spinning them away is comparatively difficult. You can't say that Gyarados has this amazing bulk to take stuff on, when it's weak to SR, takes Sand damage, and has no reliable recovery. What's more, if you're using Substitute, that's going to eat away at your health too. I think somebody posted above about how Gyarados can simply 'wear down' it's checks or counters, via Substitute; but this is kind of a bad point. If you're using Sub, then your sacrificing 25% of your HP, and this is making the generous assumption that SR won't be on the field. So, whilst Gyarados is attempting to 'wear down' it's own checks and counters, Gyarados gets worn down itself very quickly. This is bad, because Gyarados is slow, so it needs to rely on it's bulk to set up and sweep. But it has no reliable recovery. Do you see what I'm getting at? I actually think Gyarados could have stayed in the now non-existent A- tier; it just doesn't fit in A.

Notes about Volcarona and Dragonite: I would rather use either of these over Gyarados generally speaking, for a few different reasons. Volc has higher speed to begin with, but also gets a Special Defense boost from Quiver Dance and Roost, allowing it to go the bulky route effectively. Dragonite is kinda slow like Gyarados, but it has Multiscale and Roost, both of which are a pretty big deal if you're doing a bulky DD set. Offensive DD is a bit different (I actually don't like it as much, as Sandstorm often negates Multiscale), but it hits like a nuke with Outrage that's for sure. Oh, that was the other thing; Gyarados lacks a really powerful STAB to sweep/ nuke stuff with; Waterfall is significantly weaker than the likes of Outrage, Close Combat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump etc.

So yeah. Gyarados is cool and all, and it isn't explicitly bad, but I've honestly never had trouble with it when facing it on the ladder. Terrakion? Scary. Keldeo? Scary. Breloom? Scary.

Gyarados? Ehhhhh... Could be worse.

I'm sorry, but this entire post is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. Where on earth are you getting this information from? Very few Pokemon with a SR weakness succeed in this metagame? So you're telling me that Thundurus-T, Kyurem-B, Tornadus, Dragonite, Salamence, Gyarados, and even Volcarona to an extent are a very few Pokemon that can succeed with a SR weakness? Ironically, all of these things I just listed are top tier threats and or are one of the most dangerous sweepers in the metagame, and although they don't like taking SR damage, they still manage to succeed just fine. Just because something is weak to SR, doesn't mean that it's already extremely hindered. Sure, Volcarona's x4 weakness to it really hurts its effectiveness, but it still manages to be one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier. Next off, have you ever actually used Gyarados or are you just theorymoning? You make it sound like it's just some outclassed rain sweeper that only finds its niche as an okay rain sweeper, when in fact it's quite the opposite. You're automatically shutting it down because of its below average speed and weak STABs, but ironically, not many Pokemon in the tier can resist both of its STAB combinations, and coming off of 125 base Attack and at +1 or +2 with rain factored in, Gyarados hits just as hard if not harder then Dragonite. Honestly, Gyarados doesn't really mind SR as much as Dragonite for example, because unlike Dragonite or Volcarona, it isn't threatened by a wide variety of common attacks. Rotom-W is by no means uncommon, but they don't normally run T-bolt and Volt Switch, and Gyarados can easily play around Volt Switch. Thundurus-T is demolished by a rain boosted Waterfall. Gyarados isn't weak to any sort of priority, in fact it resist Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. Honestly though, all of your assumptions with Gyarados' weak STABs and SR weakness are all obviously paper assumptions, because in battle, none of these factors really bother it too much. It's slow, but Dragon Dance fixes that problem, and it's easy for it to setup a Dragon Dance on most of the metagame. Gyarados is by no means "an almost explicitly bad" Pokemon. Maybe you should try it out in battle sometime? If you have, and all you can really say is that Gyarados is meh, then you're clearly doing something wrong.

Gyarados? Ehhhhh... Could be worse.

Ehhh...it couldn't be much better.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I have been using azumarill in a weatherless team and he is pretty good. Aqua jet revenge kill a lot of things, he is strong as fuck in general and has enough bulk to tank hits and dish out a powerful waterfall. He is also a true monster in rain where nothing can switch in safely and even bulk resists must think twice about coming in. I dont see why is sharpedo in a higher rank than it when azumarill boasts a LOT more power and bulk.

 

[Gary]

Azumarill for B- Rank

Azumarill is stuck in C is what I don't get. Thanks to Huge Power, its Waterfall / Aqua Tail is ridiculously powerful in or out of rain, and runs a Choice Band set well. It also helps win the weather wars since Azumarill beats Ninetales, Hippowdon, and Tyranitar 1 v 1 and has decent bulk to make up for the Speed. Azumarill also provides valuable priority in Aqua Jet, which is the ONLY priority move out there that can leave the OHKO on Volcarona, which many teams are weak too. Azumarill also isn't hard walled by Ferrothorn and because of Superpower and Celebi with Ice Punch. Sure, its walled by the prevalent Jellicent, but some CB sets run Toxic to cripple them. Overall, Azumarill shouldn't be C-Rank and its powerful wall-breaking potential and utility in Aqua Jet make up for its short coming in speed, and reliance on rain.

I agree with Equator on bumping Azumarill to B- Rank. Although Azumarill may seem a bit outclassed by Sharpedo, Azumarill has a few traits that separate it from the shark. First off and most importantly, Azumarill has access to Aqua Jet, giving it something to spam late game when everything is weakened up or if something like Rock Polish Landorus needs to be revenge killed. Aqua Jet alone helps offset it's pathetic speed stat. Second of all, it's more powerful then Sharpedo, and with a Choice Band, it hits MUCH harder then Sharpedo could ever dream of. Third, Azumarill can actually break through Ferrothorn thanks to Superpower, one of the few things that walls almost all variants of Sharpedo. Last but not least, Azumarill is actually quite bulky, with a solid 100/80/80 spread, and it usually invests heavily in HP seeing as it's speed stat is pretty much impossible to invest in. Problem with Sharpedo, is that it HAS to kill something or else it's dead, whereas Azumarill can easily tank a few hits if it has to in order to kill something.

Overall, Azumarill is a pretty good Pokemon in the rain, and like Sharpedo, it has a few flaws that keep it from going any higher than B- rank, but with decent bulk, priority, access to Superpower, Huge Power, and the ability to abuse rain, Azumarill has the potential to be bumped up to B- Rank.

 

[vyomov]

I'd like to motion Azelf for B- Rank
Azelf has a considerable niche in the fact that it:
a) Has 115 base speed, thus outspeeding most of OU
b) Has excellent 125/125 Attacking stats, allowing it to run mixed, physical or special
c) Also works well as a suicide lead

I think this is more than enough to fit into B- Rank, especially considering it has equivalent niches of mons like Roserade who are also in B-.

 

[Magcargo]

Since C-Ranks doesn't have a Top/Mid/Low ranking yet, I'm going to make a list of pokemon that is suitable for each respective rank. I'll add some description that I didn't include.

TOP
Azelf (If it does not rise up)
Azumarill (if it does not rise up)
Cresselia- An amazing wall in the sun who checks landorus and keldeo somewhat well. Thanks to its decent support movepool, it can run a decent support set, using thunder wave to cripple faster foes and healing wish to give a heavily weakened sweeper another chance, However, its vulnerability to tyranitar and scizor, as well as sun reliance keep it from reaching Low B-Rank.
Heracross
Jolteon
Metagross- A very good pokemon in general, but faces major competition from Scizor and Jirachi. However, it can run either a support set with Stealth Rock and pursuit, or the Classic agiligross set. The support set can not only set up Stealth rocks reliably, but also puts the lati twins in check with pursuit and meteor mash. The standard agiligross set can setup an agility on a dragon type locked into outrage and sweep, though it needs a large amount of entry hazard support. Overall, a decent pokemon.
Meloetta
Moltres
Porygon2
Sandslash
Sawsbuck
Slowbro
Slowking
Virizion
Victreebel

MID
Chandelure
Cobalion
Ditto

LOW
Aerodactyl
Crustle
Durant
Nidoqueen
Shaymin

Pokemon that haven't been looked through thoroughly
Donphan
Empoleon
Froslass
Lilligant
Rotom-Heat
Smeargle
Staraptor
Zoruark

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

I would probably think that Staraptor is better fit for D-Tier. What place does it have for an OU team? It's Stealth Rock weakness in sync with a lack of bulk and poor defensive typing makes it unable to withstand strong hits, only made worse by an average speed. Sure, it hits hard but not that hard. There are a lot of things that hit just as hard with more bulk and speed.

 

[MikeDawg]

I always hate facing staraptor, especially if it leads and I lead with the wrong poke.

It then proceeds to kill my lead or 2hko my physically defensive hippowdon or 2 hko my rotom w or anything else on my team with brave bird

I think it more than has a place in C