Not really at all?
Completely different Pokemon doing different things (namely: doing anything) in a different place
also the look is different and obviously these renders were different than the models etc etc
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon XY General Discussion
- Thread starter Stellar
- Start date
- Status
Completely different Pokemon doing different things (namely: doing anything) in a different place
also the look is different and obviously these renders were different than the models etc etc
Not surprising to me.
Definitely not surprising, but it may hint at Moon Blast's base power. They usually give the legendary pokemon's signature moves some advantage over the run-of-the-mill power moves of the same type (Spacial Rend over Dragon Pulse, Sacred Fire over Fire Blast, etc), so I'm guessing Moon Blast will probably be around 95 power. Geomancy at 120 OR 100 with a ridic side effect.
Who thinks Xerneas will be a fast Sp.attacker?
Xerneas's stats
HP: 110
attack: 80
defense:100
sp.attack: 150(or maybe even 160!)
special defense: 120
speed: 110
Xerneas's stats
HP: 110
attack: 80
defense:100
sp.attack: 150(or maybe even 160!)
special defense: 120
speed: 110
Please, do not post predicted stat spreads.
First and foremost, there is nothing to base it on (and if there is, post some math!), and nobody likes to read numbers pulled out of thin air. It's OK to post "based on A, B and C (minimum!) I think that ____ looks like it could be ______, and that its ____ stat could be somewhere in the vincinity of...". But a full stat spread, based on nothing but your imagination? It might be fun for you to speculate, you have your own reasons to think what you do, but unless you share those reasons, it makes for a very boring read.
EDIT: See below for an excellent example.
First and foremost, there is nothing to base it on (and if there is, post some math!), and nobody likes to read numbers pulled out of thin air. It's OK to post "based on A, B and C (minimum!) I think that ____ looks like it could be ______, and that its ____ stat could be somewhere in the vincinity of...". But a full stat spread, based on nothing but your imagination? It might be fun for you to speculate, you have your own reasons to think what you do, but unless you share those reasons, it makes for a very boring read.
EDIT: See below for an excellent example.
Last edited:
It is pointless to speculate about Stat spreads, however I don't think it is unreasonable to assert that both Xerneas and Yveltal will have a Sp.Att stat equal to or greater than their Att stat.
The reason for this is that both of their signature moves look to be special, and typically on past observations legendaries have a signature or iconic move that is based on their better attack start (unless their stats are equal). To give examples; Ho-oH (sacred fire), Palkia (spacial rend), Dialga (Roar of Time), Zekrom (Bolt strike), etc.
What remains to be seen is if Xerneas and Yveltal will be "bulky" or "sweeper/ wall breakers" (its all relative if you have a BST over 600). There isn't much to go on here; I suppose Xerneas looks a bit bulky and Yveltal seems to be faster/ more agile - but I won't say anything with confidence.
I'm a little worried that there were no new "traditional" evolutions of old pokemon. This is an even number generation after all. I still have hope though.
We saw that gamefreak/nintendo fulfilled a lot of our wishes this generation (unique and rare pokemon typings, trainer customization, diagonal movement, rideable pokemon, easier EV training, permanent solution for cross generation pokemon transfers just to name a few).
Perhaps this will be the generation we'll also get the long awaited fighting/flying farfetch'd evolution, or perhaps the normal/dragon dunsparce evolution or, and this is extremely unlikely, a Smeargle evolution (it is France after all; the best place for a painter to evolve) . Actually it does not matter what single stage, or 2 stage pokemon families get an evolution as long as there are at least a few.
Mega-evolutions do not count. I don't have anything against mega-evolution that were given to "complete"(3 stage) pokemon families. I regard them as add-ons to these families. I'd rather they gave single stage pokemon a normal evolution instead of the mega one. They would have benefited more from a normal evolution in my opinion. (Fortunately there are only 3 pokemon that we know of so far that have a mega-evolution: mawile,absol and kangaskhan so its not that bad)
As the mega -evolutions are kalos exclusive they still can get regular evolutions in a later generation. At least that is my hope. What do you guys think?
We saw that gamefreak/nintendo fulfilled a lot of our wishes this generation (unique and rare pokemon typings, trainer customization, diagonal movement, rideable pokemon, easier EV training, permanent solution for cross generation pokemon transfers just to name a few).
Perhaps this will be the generation we'll also get the long awaited fighting/flying farfetch'd evolution, or perhaps the normal/dragon dunsparce evolution or, and this is extremely unlikely, a Smeargle evolution (it is France after all; the best place for a painter to evolve) . Actually it does not matter what single stage, or 2 stage pokemon families get an evolution as long as there are at least a few.
Mega-evolutions do not count. I don't have anything against mega-evolution that were given to "complete"(3 stage) pokemon families. I regard them as add-ons to these families. I'd rather they gave single stage pokemon a normal evolution instead of the mega one. They would have benefited more from a normal evolution in my opinion. (Fortunately there are only 3 pokemon that we know of so far that have a mega-evolution: mawile,absol and kangaskhan so its not that bad)
As the mega -evolutions are kalos exclusive they still can get regular evolutions in a later generation. At least that is my hope. What do you guys think?
Last edited:
I think that sadly, Sylveon will be the last traditional cross-generational evolution for the foreseeable future.
GameFreak got a lot of negative feedback for evolving a bunch of old 'mons in Gen. IV. I guess the intention was to revitalize old Pokémon, make them relevant again as well as boosting their power. However, many fans thought it ruined the feel of the old Pokémon. I mean, who wants to play with Magmar if you can evolve it? Why make Dusknoir at all, it's just a boosted form of Dusclops? Who wants to settle for a Togetic when they can have Togekiss? Old Pokémon, many of them big fan favourites, used to be somewhat weak, yet decent enough for in-game runs, and great to use in less-intense competitive battles (such as the lower tiers on Smogon). However, with the addition of their evolutions, they became mere transitional forms, while the "ugly big brothers" took the fully-evolved limelight away from them. Sneasel used to be the complete and final form of its evolutionary line. Now it's just an unevolved form, to be obtained and promptly evolved into the more powerful Weavile. Electabuzz, Rhydon, Magneton - first generation favourites, yet now reduced to middle stage Pokémon in the shadow of Electivire, Rhyperior and Magnezone. They are now largely regarded as lesser versions of the fourth generation "usurpers". Myself, I like the new evolutions, but I'm trying to get across the points of the more negatively-minded parts of the fanbase.
So GameFreak hatched a plan, a compromise keeping the old 'mons as they are, yet still revitalizing them and making them more powerful (so they can be used at the forefront of competitive play): Mega Evolutions.
Mega Evolutions don't take away the spotlight of the ME'd Pokémon. For intance, Mawile is still Mawile, you won't find its "evolved" form in the Pokédex. Mawile will still be part of your team, reside in your boxes, and learn Mawile moves. It will just transform in battle, akin to getting a power boost. Yes, it will get a kickass new design, but that design will still be Mawile. Your good ol' Mawile will still look the same after the big battle. GameFreak try to recreate the power boost and new design features of an evolution, but without making the evolved Pokémon obsolete. They hope to both please the crowd that want their favourite Pokémon to be more powerful, as well as the crowd that don't want to see their favourites outclassed by a new, "ugly" design.
This also has the benefit of allowing a fourth evolution to a family, thus giving them the option to revitalize evolution families that were previously considered "untouchable". Heck, even Legendaries can be put back in the marketing spotlight. They can add new, more powerful versions of 'mons such as Charizard, Blaziken or Mewtwo, without angering the purists. They can keep the versatile and recognisable Lucario for more shenanigans, opting to only use its power "when stuff goes real" in battle. They can give old Pokémon new levels of power, to a degree previously unheard of, but the badass, new, controversial design doesn't have to stick around afterwards. Players can still carry their favourite 'mons, they don't have to learn new names or accept the old Pokémon as pre-evolutions. On paper, it's a good compromise.
Though, I must say I belong to the crowd who will miss cross-generational evolutions. I like the idea of traditional revitalization, I hugely enjoy speculations along the line of "this thing is sucky now, but if it gets to evolve in the next generation...". New evolutions take some getting used to, but when you do, you can re-catch your old favourites in new games, then train them with the goal of making them even more powerful. I liked Elecabuzz before, but I wouldn't have caught an Elekid in White2 if it weren't for the promise of Electivire somewhere down the line. I enjoy Sneasel's design, but without Weavile, it is kinda weak and kinda boring. And Porygon would be nothing without its later brethren, giving it way more power than it ever asked for (and looking quite cool to boot!).
I really hope I'm wrong in my assumptions of GameFreak's decisions. Or if I'm correct, I hope they will revoke it come Gen. VII. Farfetch'd, Dunspare, Chimecho - your time to shine will come. I'll be waiting.
GameFreak got a lot of negative feedback for evolving a bunch of old 'mons in Gen. IV. I guess the intention was to revitalize old Pokémon, make them relevant again as well as boosting their power. However, many fans thought it ruined the feel of the old Pokémon. I mean, who wants to play with Magmar if you can evolve it? Why make Dusknoir at all, it's just a boosted form of Dusclops? Who wants to settle for a Togetic when they can have Togekiss? Old Pokémon, many of them big fan favourites, used to be somewhat weak, yet decent enough for in-game runs, and great to use in less-intense competitive battles (such as the lower tiers on Smogon). However, with the addition of their evolutions, they became mere transitional forms, while the "ugly big brothers" took the fully-evolved limelight away from them. Sneasel used to be the complete and final form of its evolutionary line. Now it's just an unevolved form, to be obtained and promptly evolved into the more powerful Weavile. Electabuzz, Rhydon, Magneton - first generation favourites, yet now reduced to middle stage Pokémon in the shadow of Electivire, Rhyperior and Magnezone. They are now largely regarded as lesser versions of the fourth generation "usurpers". Myself, I like the new evolutions, but I'm trying to get across the points of the more negatively-minded parts of the fanbase.
So GameFreak hatched a plan, a compromise keeping the old 'mons as they are, yet still revitalizing them and making them more powerful (so they can be used at the forefront of competitive play): Mega Evolutions.
Mega Evolutions don't take away the spotlight of the ME'd Pokémon. For intance, Mawile is still Mawile, you won't find its "evolved" form in the Pokédex. Mawile will still be part of your team, reside in your boxes, and learn Mawile moves. It will just transform in battle, akin to getting a power boost. Yes, it will get a kickass new design, but that design will still be Mawile. Your good ol' Mawile will still look the same after the big battle. GameFreak try to recreate the power boost and new design features of an evolution, but without making the evolved Pokémon obsolete. They hope to both please the crowd that want their favourite Pokémon to be more powerful, as well as the crowd that don't want to see their favourites outclassed by a new, "ugly" design.
This also has the benefit of allowing a fourth evolution to a family, thus giving them the option to revitalize evolution families that were previously considered "untouchable". Heck, even Legendaries can be put back in the marketing spotlight. They can add new, more powerful versions of 'mons such as Charizard, Blaziken or Mewtwo, without angering the purists. They can keep the versatile and recognisable Lucario for more shenanigans, opting to only use its power "when stuff goes real" in battle. They can give old Pokémon new levels of power, to a degree previously unheard of, but the badass, new, controversial design doesn't have to stick around afterwards. Players can still carry their favourite 'mons, they don't have to learn new names or accept the old Pokémon as pre-evolutions. On paper, it's a good compromise.
Though, I must say I belong to the crowd who will miss cross-generational evolutions. I like the idea of traditional revitalization, I hugely enjoy speculations along the line of "this thing is sucky now, but if it gets to evolve in the next generation...". New evolutions take some getting used to, but when you do, you can re-catch your old favourites in new games, then train them with the goal of making them even more powerful. I liked Elecabuzz before, but I wouldn't have caught an Elekid in White2 if it weren't for the promise of Electivire somewhere down the line. I enjoy Sneasel's design, but without Weavile, it is kinda weak and kinda boring. And Porygon would be nothing without its later brethren, giving it way more power than it ever asked for (and looking quite cool to boot!).
I really hope I'm wrong in my assumptions of GameFreak's decisions. Or if I'm correct, I hope they will revoke it come Gen. VII. Farfetch'd, Dunspare, Chimecho - your time to shine will come. I'll be waiting.
I agree with you, but i don't think old pokemon who got evolution are useless just because it has an evolution. Gen V solved this problem with eviolite, and now many NFE favorite mons are usable again(I'm not saying GOOD....i said usable)..some competitive(dusclops for example) and some in-game
They're "kalos exclusive" now in the same way the Unova Pokemon were Unova Exclusive.
They'll obviously be back in future generations and likely with additional Mega Evolution.
Really the only Mega Evolution that rubs me the wrong way is Mawile. Absol & Kangaskhan, whatever, they were probably not getting *actual* evolutions , they're BSTs were already kind of high, and seem (imo!) fairly complete as is.
Mawile was none of those things. And now if I want to use Mega Mawile I have to forgo every other Mega in the region and now it will likely never get an actual evolution which is kind of lame (& even if it did it'd have to be preeeetty amazing to outdo mega mawile).
Plus it's not like pokemon like Magmar and Electabuzz are useless. They still have decent power and greater speed than their evolutions (plus Eviolite). I actually considered using an eviolite Electabuzz or Magmar for a B2W2 run. But I can definitely understand people being upset that there is an evolved form of their favorites now (notably the ones that require trading).
I also think the Eviolite was the dumbest thing introduced when it comes to promoting NFE's.
-
I am okay whether or not they introduce evolutions of old pokemon. The mega evo's do justice for them. If the pre-national dex for this game is large, then I'll be very happy with it regardless.
I also think the Eviolite was the dumbest thing introduced when it comes to promoting NFE's.
-
I am okay whether or not they introduce evolutions of old pokemon. The mega evo's do justice for them. If the pre-national dex for this game is large, then I'll be very happy with it regardless.
I beg to disagree. Eviolite gives a fighting chance to middle evolution, which are otherwise for the huge part, ignored.
That's exactly why I hate it, it makes zero sense to give them a fighting chance, hence being NFE (not reaching their greatest potential). I absolutely hate the thought of Eviolite chansey competing with Leftovers blissey, or more notably Dusclops being a tier above Dusknoir. That's stupid beyond belief.
In-game isn't as bad, but it still compromises their integrity IMO. I'm still obligated to use it in-game.
I won't bother posting more on this subject, I'd rather not go too off-topic.
Last edited:
Some mons gain a completely new niche due to Eviolite, most notably Misdreavus in NU/RU. Yes, some mons follow their "parents" in a lower tier, like Gurdurr and Piloswine running almost exactly the same set as Conkeldurr and Mamoswine, respectively.
Is Eviolite bad? From a competitive point of view, not at all. It greatly increases the amount of options in NU and to a lesser extent RU. Yes, Chansey and Dusclops are exceptions, but they aren't harmful to the metagame.
Maybe flavour-wise it doesn't make too much sense, but I fully understand why it was introduced and I believe it is for the better (without Eviolite, for example, Jynx and possibly Sawk would have to be banned from NU, to give examples, as quite a few of their counters depend on Eviolite (Metang for the former and Misdreavus and Tangela for the latter).
Is Eviolite bad? From a competitive point of view, not at all. It greatly increases the amount of options in NU and to a lesser extent RU. Yes, Chansey and Dusclops are exceptions, but they aren't harmful to the metagame.
Maybe flavour-wise it doesn't make too much sense, but I fully understand why it was introduced and I believe it is for the better (without Eviolite, for example, Jynx and possibly Sawk would have to be banned from NU, to give examples, as quite a few of their counters depend on Eviolite (Metang for the former and Misdreavus and Tangela for the latter).
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I love my defensive eviolite Misdreavus, and I saw people with many other excellent eviolite-users. (Golbat and Mantyke)
I don't see what's so lame about eviolite, especially when item clause is on. It just makes the game more variable.
Basically if you see one sole not-fully-evolved Pokemon, you should be expecting it anyway.
Also, you could have used moves like Super-fang (not to Misdreavus though)/ knock off/ trick/ switcheroo, etc.
uh
do you guys realize most of Game Freak's decisions are not based on "what will make or break this metagame"? hence speed boost blaziken
Eviolite doesn't make much sense from a flavor appeal - yet they threw it in. Why? Well, you guys were right in a sense if you said that it gave middle evolutions a "fighting chance." In fact, it does so in such a unique matter that it doesn't allow for one of the staples of most Pokemon metagames - Leftovers.
So why would they throw it in? The answer is fairly clear, as there are two approaches to take with the item - in-game, and playing favorites.
Genwunners know where I'm coming from with some Pokemon, like Chansey or Rhydon. Personally, I like Dewott a lot more than Samurott, and Dusclops a lot more than Dusknoir. While Game Freak certainly wasn't tailoring the item with "NU" and "RU" in mind, they definitely know that people are more likely to use Pokemon that are able to actually battle and survive. Thus, Eviolite was born. Now, for a specific part of the game - your original run-through. Notice how Eviolite is able to be obtained in Castelia city, which is the third gym in both games. This is very strategic placing, as you have had enough experience to begin using items, and most of your Pokemon have begun to evolve. But say you have something like a Psyduck - you want to use Golduck, but level 33 is just so far away. And all of your other Pokemon have started to evolve - why can't my Psyduck be like my Pignite and become more powerful already? Well, Eviolite is the pretty big answer to this dilemma - you can keep using your favorite Pokemon, and it will even survive longer! This makes for a much more pleasurable experience in-game. You can even use Pokemon like Dragonair on your team, which some people don't simply because it evolves at level 55 and can get outclassed before then.
do you guys realize most of Game Freak's decisions are not based on "what will make or break this metagame"? hence speed boost blaziken
Eviolite doesn't make much sense from a flavor appeal - yet they threw it in. Why? Well, you guys were right in a sense if you said that it gave middle evolutions a "fighting chance." In fact, it does so in such a unique matter that it doesn't allow for one of the staples of most Pokemon metagames - Leftovers.
So why would they throw it in? The answer is fairly clear, as there are two approaches to take with the item - in-game, and playing favorites.
Genwunners know where I'm coming from with some Pokemon, like Chansey or Rhydon. Personally, I like Dewott a lot more than Samurott, and Dusclops a lot more than Dusknoir. While Game Freak certainly wasn't tailoring the item with "NU" and "RU" in mind, they definitely know that people are more likely to use Pokemon that are able to actually battle and survive. Thus, Eviolite was born. Now, for a specific part of the game - your original run-through. Notice how Eviolite is able to be obtained in Castelia city, which is the third gym in both games. This is very strategic placing, as you have had enough experience to begin using items, and most of your Pokemon have begun to evolve. But say you have something like a Psyduck - you want to use Golduck, but level 33 is just so far away. And all of your other Pokemon have started to evolve - why can't my Psyduck be like my Pignite and become more powerful already? Well, Eviolite is the pretty big answer to this dilemma - you can keep using your favorite Pokemon, and it will even survive longer! This makes for a much more pleasurable experience in-game. You can even use Pokemon like Dragonair on your team, which some people don't simply because it evolves at level 55 and can get outclassed before then.
I've been thinking about Pokemon Bank. Do you guys think that we will be able to store pokemon with ITEMS?
There is no sign of any Pokemon with items in this pic. If we can't store items we will end up having to trade Mega Stones from events (e.g. Blazikenite) to another game before restarting...
If we can store items, do you think it will be possible to transfer items from gen 5?
There is no sign of any Pokemon with items in this pic. If we can't store items we will end up having to trade Mega Stones from events (e.g. Blazikenite) to another game before restarting...
If we can store items, do you think it will be possible to transfer items from gen 5?
Maybe they will bring back the item box for this Gen (not even sure if they got rid of it but it was really pointless).I've been thinking about Pokemon Bank. Do you guys think that we will be able to store pokemon with ITEMS?
There is no sign of any Pokemon with items in this pic. If we can't store items we will end up having to trade Mega Stones from events (e.g. Blazikenite) to another game before restarting...
If we can store items, do you think it will be possible to transfer items from gen 5?
Probably not. I imagine it will be like gen 5's PokeTransfer and remove all items before sending them overI've been thinking about Pokemon Bank. Do you guys think that we will be able to store pokemon with ITEMS?
There is no sign of any Pokemon with items in this pic. If we can't store items we will end up having to trade Mega Stones from events (e.g. Blazikenite) to another game before restarting...
If we can store items, do you think it will be possible to transfer items from gen 5?
I'm not sure about storing pokemon in the bank with items, but I feel certain you can transfer item-holding pokemon from gen 5.I've been thinking about Pokemon Bank. Do you guys think that we will be able to store pokemon with ITEMS?
There is no sign of any Pokemon with items in this pic. If we can't store items we will end up having to trade Mega Stones from events (e.g. Blazikenite) to another game before restarting...
If we can store items, do you think it will be possible to transfer items from gen 5?
I think items in general are too important to leave out. But of course I could be wrong.
- Status