True, forgot about that. But still, at the very least it makes him a check to most fairies.
If only we could get a poison/steel pokemon next gen...
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
- Status
True, forgot about that. But still, at the very least it makes him a check to most fairies.
If only we could get a poison/steel pokemon next gen...
The thing that really sets Gardevoir apart from other special attackers is its huge support movepool, which includes Destiny Bond, Taunt, Healing Wish, Screens, and most importantly Will-o-Wisp. Gardevoir doesn't exclusively need to be supported by its team, it can support its team as well.
Pixilate Hyper Voice hits really hard (I can't be assed to do any calcs but it's probably the most powerful un-specced special move in OU), bypasses subs, and while 100 speed isn't great it's not slow either. Gardevoir causes a lot of switches, which allows it to burn whatever comes in (namely steel types that threaten it, like Scizor and Aegislash) which is great team support. Of all special attackers, Gardevoir is probably the best suited to this sort of use of Wisp.
Last edited:
what is this i don't even.
Mega Lucario is the most threatening pokemon in OU, bar none (okay maybe Genesect) its impossible to tell what set its running, those sets have completely different counters, and both of em 2hko pretty much the entire relevant tier BEFORE getting near mandatory boosts. whilst it is priority weak, it also has a slew of priority of its own, on top of base 115 speed, its hard to get a priority hit of your own off. its the definition of S Rank and Suspect.
Mega Pinsir is not S, on the other hand. its typing is appalling, its a worse Lucario requiring much more support and lacking its power. now its good but there is no reason to run it over Lucario right now, except maybe in a Double Bird Core with Talonflame or Staraptor which have proven effective. Solid A+
Aggron lacks recovery, it can't do its job well enough to be A. its just gonna be whittled down, not worth the Mega Slot when Venusaur Exists, B- at most. Speaking of which Venusaur is Solid S, we've had this discussion so many times it should almost be blacklisted.
No point in Mega Aero at all. doesn't hit hard enough and using any suicide hazard setter that isn't Deo-Sharp core is mad. i wouldn't even rank him but if i had to its C.
the rest of em i'm sure aren't getting Analysis and if they are, they get dumped in C.
We should Discuss Entei again, Sacred Fire's been around a while, its still really good. i'd dump him in B.
LittleTLK
Mega Pinsir should remain in A to A+. He is weak against the most common attacking types in the game and anything he can't kill will most likely be able to one shot him back (or in the case of skarmory, just stealth rock -> whirlwind). For longevity (in most cases) he relies on the swords dance boost unlike Lucario who gets a free swords dance basically by just mega evolving. Don't get me wrong, Pinsir is a very powerful mon but he needs a team built around his weaknesses so he can sweep at the end game. You can't just throw him out after any 'mon dies and expect to faceroll. *cough Adaptability Close Combat cough*
Also Pinsir's set is extremely predictable. It's always Quick Attack, Return (or Frustration), Swords Dance, Earthquake. Those 4 Moves make him an offensive powerhouse.
Mega Pinsir should remain in A to A+. He is weak against the most common attacking types in the game and anything he can't kill will most likely be able to one shot him back (or in the case of skarmory, just stealth rock -> whirlwind). For longevity (in most cases) he relies on the swords dance boost unlike Lucario who gets a free swords dance basically by just mega evolving. Don't get me wrong, Pinsir is a very powerful mon but he needs a team built around his weaknesses so he can sweep at the end game. You can't just throw him out after any 'mon dies and expect to faceroll. *cough Adaptability Close Combat cough*
Also Pinsir's set is extremely predictable. It's always Quick Attack, Return (or Frustration), Swords Dance, Earthquake. Those 4 Moves make him an offensive powerhouse.
If I remember right, we decided on B well before the Florges shit, but the OP never gets updated.
yeah i remember just wondering if anybody thinks he's changed as the meta continues. i don't think so but discussion on Entei is always fun.
252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 Def Assault Vest Azumarill:
88+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 282-332 (100.3 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Azumarill: 141-166 (34.9 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 148-176 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
I really think Porygon 2 should be listed somewhere here, it's AT LEAST among the C range I believe. It doesn't get much usage but it can wall so many things in OU and has a great ability, Trace. He can dish out paralysis as well, crippling lots of pokemon. And ground types that want to switch into a T-wave won't like taking damage from an Ice Beam. Although the massive amount of Knock Off usage this gen cripples him, you can always switch out. Bulky megas like Venu won't mind taking a knock off.
except when you bring it in, Luke has probably boosted. good job though, didn't know that set existed. but having to tailor fit one pokemon into a role its not meant to fill just to counter Luke shows Luke is the Definition of S Rank. And even then, he's just gonna switch out and whittle you down as you take hits on the switch. you force him out once, after which he can come back on, set up as you switch in Azu and KO. so your set stops him once and only once.
LittleTLK
This is absolute contradiction. You state its horrid defensive typing, but this is probably the main reason it is not S-Rank. It faces a few problems. One is definitely Rotom-W, the most common PKMN in the metagame and for a reason. A standard healthy Rotom-W can live a +2 Return then Volt Switch (Choice Scarf variants can outpace and KO). Stealth Rock is the most common entry hazard in the metagame and you have that as the primary reason it isn't S-Rank. Losing half of your HP screams support and sometimes, you won't get a Rapid Spin off. Sure, there's Defog, but you need to watch out for Bisharp and Milotic which can be problems. Next, you say SD Quick Attack makes it nearly unstoppable, but you don't always guarantee a Swords Dance. Landorus-T and Gyarados can also be troublesome against Pinsir. It's very powerful. Don't hear me wrong. But it is not S-Rank. Keep it in A+. Agrreing with TheMohZone on this one.
No analysis, means no rank. It got rejected: "Yea, all of QC hates this thing". Quote of a rejection from it.
This thing is a ridiculously good wall. With amazing defenses, Thick Fat, and a excellent typing, it is probably the best tank in the whole game along with Mega Aggron.With Leech Seed at its disposal, it can stall out numerous threats and can hit many targets for solid damage with Sludge Bomb. There's a lot more than that, but this alone is excellent. There was a heated discussion on Venusaur a while back. You should go back and check it out. Talonflame's Brave Bird isn't enough to make it A-Rank.
B-Rank is better. And omg, you said it is less of a threat the LO Aero. That makes me laugh so hard... 150 Spe is pretty overkill, but remeber, it can run Adamant Nature right. With max Speed and neutral nature, it still has higher than Jolly 130 Base Spe, so it helps. 135 Atk has merit. It boosts Aerial Ace, Fire Fang (stronger than Fire Punch now), Crunch, Double-Edge, and heck even Fly gives it merits. It is probably one of the best All-Out Attackers in OU. Stone Edge hits really hard anyways and you can use Hone Claws if you are risky. Try it in practice, no theorymoning please. Last two sentences were dumb.
Lol
Its ability isn't lackluster. Launcher turns Aura Sphere into the equivalent of Focus Miss, except without the miss. It also has access to Dark Pulse.
Really its problem is it isn't durable enough to justify the slow speed. It could be powerful for many of the same reasons Mega Blastoise can be powerful, but it just isn't tanky enough.
Probably boosted? What difference does that make? That set can survive any +2 hit and retaliate with a KO. It's a revenge killer/check. You're not going to switch it in.
Entei for A rank.
I already posted something about Entei, but I'll summarize the main points:
It's powerful, bulky, decently fast, and threatens the vast majority of the meta with Banded Sacred Fire. Almost nothing wants to switch into Entei, and for the few mons that don't mind Sacred Fire Entei has coverage. It can bypass its own counters. It needs basic team support in Defog and maybe Wish, but is an excellent team player, having great burn synergy with Rotom-W, great offensive synergy with Dragons and Fairies, and supports the team with burns.
Nothing outclasses Entei, and it has a powerful, relevant niche. Easy A rank IMO.
Lucario is so S ranked that I'm shocked its still in OU. When Lucario leaves, I'll 100% support pinsir for S and I think the meta will soon see a huge rise in it. The sweeping capabilities are incredible. I have been using double bird core in tornadus-t and pinsir, which is incredible. Torn-t wears down the likes of rotom-w and other counters with its uturn and knock off life orb boosted. Pinsir is a broken sweeper, definitely A+ for now. Soon to be S.
Btw torn-t to A- rank.
Btw torn-t to A- rank.
Lucario leave? why would that happen? i dont really see mega luc as ban worthy at all, but i guees pinsir would see more usage if it left, but still not worthy for S rank.
On another note , I absolutley agree with Lando I being A+ rank. Ive been using the special sheer force set recently and practicly everything it hits gets 2HKOed or OHKOed. Its not even funny. Its crazy. Plus 101 speed lets it outspeed quite a bit, and it has fairly ok defense. Im happy with it.
I agree with Entei for B rank
I couldnt find quagsire on here,tell me if it is, but Quagsire for B+ or A Rank.
Quagsire is, well, brilliant. Its only weakness, while huge, is grass, and it has Unawre and Stockpile, meaning you are pretyy much foced to poision it to defeat it. Id say B+ because it isnt always able to use stockpile in time, but does most of the time, but A could be good as i wouldnt really say Quag is parcially eclipsed by anything. Plus it has a reliable form of HP recovery in Recover. Also bear in mind that Grass is a rare offensive type atm, and is not too common over all, unless you count mega saur.
Maybe I just haven't run into any competent Mega Lucario users, then, because I've never had any issues revenge killing. Same goes for mega-venusaur. Mega-Pinsir, on the other hand, has crushed my teams time and time again.
I'll concede that Mega Lucario is S rank, but Mega Pinsir's typing, while not perfect, should no more limit it than Mega Lucario's.
And I tried to give some attention to pokemon that don't get it. If this is a ranking thread, we shouldn't discuss just potential A and S 'mons.
Am I the only
I'm really curious as to how mega lucario and venusaur don't give you trouble but Pinsir does. I'm sorry, it just doesn't check out in my mind. If you can handle those two you should be able to handle pinsir.
I'm really curious as to how mega lucario and venusaur don't give you trouble but Pinsir does. I'm sorry, it just doesn't check out in my mind. If you can handle those two you should be able to handle pinsir.
You don't need grass attacks to defeat quagsire. It's 2hko'd by special attacks from most of high end sweepers in the tier. Actually, it's 2hko'd by a lot of physical sweepers too. Because of that, you can't reliably use it as a counter to most setup pokemon and you're forced to use it as a check instead, limiting its use. To make things worse, it really sucks against bulky offense teams. So in addition to not being great at its job of stopping set up sweepers, it's not really good at anything else either. It's not like Mega Venusaur is the only one using grass attacks. Ferrothorn, charizard Y, and greninja are all still fairly popular. But once again, grass attacks are only one of quaggy's many troubles.
I'd put him in C rank because he isn't that bad, makes a decent check for a lot of setup sweepers (once again), and has some legs once he starts setting up. But his issues are pretty crippling.
I'd put him in C rank because he isn't that bad, makes a decent check for a lot of setup sweepers (once again), and has some legs once he starts setting up. But his issues are pretty crippling.
Like I said, I just probably haven't run into competent users yet. Most of my experience comes from battle spot and random wifi battles. I've met my fair share of all 3, and while mega venusaur and lucario always give me trouble, pinsir manages to sweep me if I don't take it out on turn 1. Maybe my team just easily checks both mega lucario and 'saur? idk. I just gave my personal opinion on a ton of 'mons that have caught my attention this gen.
Honestly, I feel like there are few flaws that prevent it from doing its job. The first is the omnipresent Heatran which comes in on Sacred Fire and laughs. This is one common weakness it has with its supporting Pokemon like DD Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, and Salamence. It's worn out very easily as its weak to every entry hazard. Sand and U-turn damage can wear it out even faster. Mono Fire-typing is a good and bad. Being weak to Ground-, Rock-, and Water-type moves is problematic, but Fairy-, Fire-, Ice-, Steel-, and Bug- resistances are good. Your playing Entei for Sacred Fire and that alone. This means that Entei has only one niche: nuke that can burn common switch-ins. Entei is very niche, but it's not outclassed. These reasons themselves make Entei a B canditate. It's not partially outclassed by anything like the definition, but these flaws keep it from doing its job consistently. "Spreading burns" doesn't always happen. It's only around a 45% chance to burn (accounting its accuracy) and its PP can be easily stalled out (8 PP). If it gets 8 Sacred Fire's out, that would be amazing, but lets not go to things like "oh Garchomp is safe switch-in, oh wait, Sacred Fire burns :0". I am nominating it for solid B+ Rank especially since it fits the B Tier definition better than the A.
As a side thought, I don't think Salamence is really C+ Rank. Salamence is B-Rank. Okay, so I know that Salamence is completely eclipsed by Mega Charizard X and Dragonite as offensive Dragon Dance sweepers, but Salamence has something that the other two don't. One, Salamence does not take up your mega slot allowing flexibility for your team. Sitting at 100 Base Speed is something Dragonite doesn't have allowing it to outpace the most common Choice Scarf user in the metagame, Genesect. On top of that, it hits just as hard as Dragonite except it can use its special Fire Blast to get past Ferrothorn and Forretress easier. It can even opt to use Hydro Pump for things like Gliscor and Landorus-T. Don't be ridiculous with C+ Rank, Salamence is still just as threatening as it was last generation, just partially outclassed, the definition of B-Rank, not completely eclipsed.
I think moxie salamence shouldn't be underestimated. I'd agree with you that it deserves B rank.
The mega slot it allows over charizard X is a very good point.
Battle Spot isn't the best way to see the viability of a pokemon, in my opinion. I hate to sound elitist, but there are just a lot more inexperienced / unskilled players on Battle Spot. Lucario is more used by in-game teams because it's the first mega you get, while Pinsir is a but less known and therefore more likely to be used by someone who knows what they're doing. And yeah- the possibility of your team just naturally checking Luke and Venu is definitely possible, I never had too many problems with M-Gengar because I ran Bulky Offense/Semistall, so most of my mons could either live a shadow ball and KO back or use a priority move. M-Gengar was still ban-worthy though.
Mega-Lucario reminds me strongly of BW1 Terrakion: dozens of good sets, basically no counters, top speed etc. but you could still deal with it.
He is definitely one of the best Pokémon in this tier and derives his S rank but whether he is ban worthy or not is a topic for another thread. O~O
He is definitely one of the best Pokémon in this tier and derives his S rank but whether he is ban worthy or not is a topic for another thread. O~O
I'm not completely sure how this applies to helping rank pokemon, but I'd just like to point out something I've noticed. The S and A+ monsters are usually the ones that need less support, so in the hands of a decent player, they are supposed to be the ones that most consistently make a difference on the battle. But those mons are so common and known that every half way decent team knows how they're going to handle, or at least weather, those pokemon, even if they don't have designated checks/counters. From my experience, the match is won or lost by how people use the medium ranked pokemon that people don't always know how to handle. Pokemon like Dragonite and Alakazam aren't known for being unstoppable monsters, so people don't have a preset plan for taking them down. Its because of the metagame's current state that this occurs, so I'm not sure if we should let it affect rankings, but I think this might be why so many people keep bringing up lower ranked pokemon to be ranked as A+ or higher, and continue to argue to bring the top dogs down. IMO, a pokemon's viability is influenced by how prepared the average player is to take it on, but just because the average player is unprepared doesn't mean the pokemon itself is the best, it means its just good in the meta game. Before somebody nominates moving good, but not godly pokemon up to A+ or S, or votes to move established S mons down, think about if its the pokemon, or the metagame that makes it more or less viable, and structure your arguments around that.
- Status