Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[cxinlee]

First time posting here, so forgive me if I derped with this post.

Espeon to D:

Whenever I see Ferrothorn (who is ranked A), I'm not so afraid of it and switch to something that can handle it. Does that mean Ferrothorn doesn't belong in A?

Ferrothorn more of exerts defensive pressure rather than offensive pressure (When you’re pressurised to switch due to being walled).



The main problem with Tripping Stone’s argument for Magic Bounce is that it just can’t switch in safely into anything.

Eg. You bring in Espeon to take Thundurus Taunt, then bam Tbolt and Espeon gets 2HKOed for the kill.

Unless you want to rely on a coinflip 50-50 chance, and I’ll rather not Russian Roulette with my pokes.

Plus, it’s a high risk, mid-reward poke where if you switch in, you risk losing a poke, and as a reward you get the attack deflected (Not worth it most of the time).

Rotosect’s argument is a little more convincing though, using Espeon as a sweeper. I do have a concern though:

Espeon is supposed to keep offensive pressure and discourage non-attacking moves,

I’m slow, but don’t HO teams already discourage non-attacking moves (Bar T wave)?

For example, Alakazam puts a lot of pressure on me to attack it, rather than go for the Toxic or SR (Unless I want to sack a mon). It doesn’t even need Magic Bounce to do that

Overall I'd have to agree with the general consensus and say C+

 

[Colonial]

I cannot but agree on Slowpoke being B+, that thing is versatile and amazing counter for many new pokemons such as Physical Mega Luc, Talonflame, and even Aegislash.

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Countering Aegislash? Did you mean the SD Sets? Because those don't really need counters.

Anyway, I agree for Politoed to B. It still can provide some team support and hits hard if you choose to forgo weather for other team members and run Specs, but it's otherwise disappointing stats and lack of versatility greatly hinder it's usefulness. It essentially means you're fighting 5v6 with a predictable strategy for unreliable weather that can be stalled out and need to constantly sacrifice momentum to bring Toed back out.

 

[eddiefiv]

First time posting here, so forgive me if I derped with this post.

Espeon to D:
Rotosect’s argument is a little more convincing though, using Espeon as a sweeper. I do have a concern though:



I’m slow, but don’t HO teams already discourage non-attacking moves (Bar T wave)?

For example, Alakazam puts a lot of pressure on me to attack it, rather than go for the Toxic or SR (Unless I want to sack a mon). It doesn’t even need Magic Bounce to do that

Overall I'd have to agree with the general consensus and say C+

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't being moderately good at two different roles but somewhat outclassed in both enough to be B? (I.e., Alakazam, Starmie, Tentacruel)

 

[Ruffles]

I should have worded my phrase better. Assault Vest Slowbro counters Aegislash (All sets), because I have seen many Assault Vest Slwobro, thnx to Regenerator you are not THAT much affected by the loss of Slack Off.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

I should have worded my phrase better. Assault Vest Slowbro counters Aegislash (All sets), because I have seen many Assault Vest Slwobro, thnx to Regenerator you are not THAT much affected by the loss of Slack Off.

252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Ruffles]

Hm. Yup I didn't take LO into account, well good point, my Assault Vest Slowbro never took more than 80% from an Aegislash, but It's probably because I run some SpD EVs, and because I've never encountered a Quiet Aegislash (Mostly Brave), and even then I'm seeing more Spooky Plate / Weakness Policy than Life Orb. But you point stands.

It does not say that Slowbro's bad though, as he is still a counter to Physical Mega Lucario, and is 3HKO by Special Lucario (252 SpA Mega Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) if Mega Luc didn't have Nasty Plot beforehand. And ofc it's walls Talonflame helplessly
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[eddiefiv]

Hm. Yup I didn't take LO into account, well good point, my Assault Vest Slowbro never took more than 80% from an Aegislash, but It's probably because I run some SpD EVs, and because I've never encountered a Quiet Aegislash (Mostly Brave), and even then I'm seeing more Spooky Plate / Weakness Policy than Life Orb. But you point stands.

It does not say that Slowbro's bad though, as he is still a counter to Physical Mega Lucario, and is 3HKO by Special Lucario (252 SpA Mega Lucario Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO) if Mega Luc didn't have Nasty Plot beforehand. And ofc it's walls Talonflame helplessly
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You should definitely remember that Brave Bird will either kill Talonflame, or he'd have to Roost some damage off.
edit: Sorry, didnt see the band. But with Slowbro hitting him, Talonflame is definitely done

 

[Jin White]

Re: Updates

Still no love for Rotom-H! Reposting from page 53 & nominating Rotom-H for B-rank.

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

B-rank fits him to a T, for the following reasons:

• Checks Genesect, M-Lucario, Aegislash, Talonflame, and Mega Pinsir
• Has a very unique defensive niche, being immune to both T-Wave and WoW
• Is as versatile as Rotom-W, sporting a VERY effective scarf set or competently playing defensive/support (Volt Switch, Overheat, T-Wave, WoW, Trick, etc)
• Has excellent STABs to abuse offensively, while resisting BoltBeam coverage. Actually has MORE resistances than Rotom-W in Electric, Grass, Bug, and Fairy (but arguably less forgiving weaknesses in Water and Rock).

However, it's got tough competition from higher-tiered Pokémon, notably Rotom-W and Heatran.

• Rotom-W is definitely more viable as a pivot because of Rotom-H's Achilles' Heel: Stealth Rocks weakness.
• If it's grass-types you want to check, Heatran arguably does it better while also offering Rocks/phazing/Toxic/etc. Rotom-H, though, has a more consistent answer to its 4x Ground weakness (Levitate versus Air Balloon), and better recovery options in Pain Split/ChestoResto.

Rotom-H is a perfect B-rank because it has a few niches: a Fire-type, defensive or offensive, who can Volt Switch, and has the kind of resistances even Heatran is forced to respect. Whether he's breaking kneecaps as a crippler, or roasting the Grass-types Rotom-W can't touch, he's a team player and a damn good one.

- x -

Re: Dual Screen Espeon

It bears mentioning that the surge in Defog this gen inhibits the viability of Dual Screens just as much as hazards. Mandibuzz, arguably the premier defogger, especially puts a massive damper on whatever role Espeon thinks it's accomplishing: Defogging against an Espeon clears bounced-back hazards and screens simultaneously, while unboosted Dazzling Gleam never gets a 2HKO even on physically defensive Mandibuzz. As far as using Espeon to keep hazards off the field, it's not reliable by any stretch of the imagination. Once hazards are up, they're now up permanently unless you have another defogger/spinner. If you have another defogger/spinner, why are you using Espeon in the first place? Outclassed no matter which way you swing it: it's got similar-but-much-worse offensive stats, typing, and moves as the Latis. Magic Bounce as a means of hazard removal is outclassed by either defog/rapid spin in the sense that Magic Bounce requires 100% perfect prediction every single turn every single match and allows for no backup plan to remove hazards when/if that Bisharp used Stealth Rock instead of Knock Off. Espeon for C due to crippling flaws and the plethora of better team options.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Building on to that, what really separates Krow from Staraptor or even Talonflame is its pretty decent Mixed stats. Whereas Staraptor and Talonflame are relagated to being walled on the Physical side of things, Honchkrow somewhat bypasses that with Heat Wave coming off of a Base 105 with Life Orb, making it a barely decent wallbreaker and Revenge killer with Moxie.

However, you could try running ScarfKrow, which bypasses the whole "slow priority issue". Jolly ScarfKrow outspeeds base 130s so at that point he becomes the fastest priority bar Extremespeed, and much like MoxieMence spamming Outrage, MoxieKrow just spams Sucker Punch once all of the defensive threats and anything that doesn't use a non-attacking move are gone. It's still risky though, so it's viable, but unreliable.

But putting that aside, it's pretty bad in this meta. Most Priority users out-priority it and it's neither fast nor bulky enough to take on OU's offensive meta. Nominating this for D rank.

This is basically the argument as to why Honch is D.

Lol quoting yourself, really advisable to make yourself sound credible. I would rather have other people's thoughts too. You assume that you're the one person who decided its rank, which isn't true at all. Your argument isn't someone else's argument.

Also, why do you even mention Honchkrow's SpAtk? The focus should always be on its base 125 Atk, because of Brave Bird and Sucker Punch. Heat Wave is trivial, Roost is generally the better option. Staraptor doesn't have powerful priority like Honchkrow, which is a really big deal. Talonflame lacks in the power and coverage departments. Scarfkrow is weak and should probably never be used in XY OU. You lose out on Sucker Punch to finish of faster threats by running Scarf, and even if you would use it you're locked in. Your opponent will just setup in your face then.

Your argument (not "the" argument, lol) is rather disappointing to be honest. It's pretty bad in this meta you say. I respectfully disagree. It's one of the strongest wallbreakers out there, 2HKO'ing major defensive threats like Landorus-T with Brave Bird, while many faster threats get beaten with Sucker Punch. Valid point about the priority though, though it must be said that mons like Azumarill, Multiscale D-nite, Mega Lucario etc. can take a Sucker Punch either way. Realistically this argument is only valid against Talonflame.

"Not fast nor bulky enough to take on OU's offensive meta". Sucker Punch remedies this for the most part. If it gets a Moxie boost you OHKO a lot of fast offensive mons, like Mega Charizard-Y, Genesect, Excadrill, Lati@s, Volcarona, Thundurus, etc. Also, not the whole offensive meta is fast. There's Aegislash, Azumarill, Tyranitar, Bisharp...
Again, none of them can switch in safely. Honchkrow is a glass cannon, but a damn versatile and effective one. D rank is for pokemon that have a niche, but aren't worth your trouble. Honchkrow doesn't fit the description whatsoever. It should be at least C rank.

 

[Ruffles]

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-H: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Unless you are running Scarf, I don't think Rotom-H is a check to Lucario

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

The reason why Psychic has decreased so much in usage is not the Dark and Ghost buff (except for Jirachi) and the special nerf. It's Aegislash. Aegislash caused that in the top tier of the UU tier is dominated by pokemon countered by Aegislash.

The rest of Ghost are not keeping Psychic types on.
Gengar is itself weak to Psychic with means it can't switch on them. Also, Espeon, Latios, Latias speed ties. Celebi, Victini, Mega Gardevoir and Jirachi can take one Shadow Ball of Gengar and Ko back with Psychic/Psyshock.
Trevenant fares better against Psychic types but it cannot counter them if they are strong and are faster and have moves like Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and mainly Shadow Ball or use Metagross or Medicham.
Sableye can be defeated by pokemon like Mega gardevoir, Latios, Latias, Starmie, Celebi, using his secondary STAB. Exist a trick with Psychic types: programe the IV of Attack at 0.
Chandelure are great. But can be checked by hitting first through its weak defenses. See this example.
252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 264-312 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO. And Draco meteor overkills Chandelure.
Jellicent. It's more defensive and can defeat them easily using repeated Shadow Ball, taking less than 50% counting leftovers, but risk some powerful coverage Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt and Energy Ball.

I think that are no more ghost.

About Dark types, Mandibuzz (the more difficult) can be taking using Ice Beam/Thunderbolt. The rest of Dark attacks can be done of two ways: A) Use Focus Blast/Dazzling Gleam if available; B) if the pokemon learn Sucker Punch, use status moves to take out the PP.

And Mega Absol is not more effective than Espeon on taking Talonflame. Greninja has 122 Base Def and defeats you with Hydro Pump. And has 37,5% of defeating you with Surf. I agree with Aegislash.

 

[alexwolf]

I think A is too high for Politoad, but B/B+ is definitely a good place for him, for the reasons you have mentioned, the reason I don't think he's A is because he loses his item, which last gen could be Scarf for a fast Drizzle, Specs for the most powerful Hydro Pumps in the game, or Leftovers for mediocre recovery, he lost all that, and Politaod does enjoy Thundurus-I, Thundurus-T, and Mega Manectric's popularity.

Politoed's usefulness was never about him, it was about the support it could provide to its team. Sure, Politoed not being an absolute liability like Ninetales was and providing some useful things to the team (Perish Song was great for stall teams) was nice, but nothing more than the cherry on the top of an already delicious cake. Of course with the loss of its item Politoed is now individually way easier to handle, but the overall drop of its effectiveness that this causes is almost negligible in comparison to its main use, setting up rain. Of course due to rain no longer being infinite, Politoed should drop one rank, but no more, as rain teams are great playstyles atm and Politoed is their cornerstone.

Anyway, I agree for Politoed to B. It still can provide some team support and hits hard if you choose to forgo weather for other team members and run Specs, but it's otherwise disappointing stats and lack of versatility greatly hinder it's usefulness. It essentially means you're fighting 5v6 with a predictable strategy for unreliable weather that can be stalled out and need to constantly sacrifice momentum to bring Toed back out.

Once again, Politoed losing some of its individual usefulness doesn't matter that much when he gives so much support to a team. And yeah, i certainly do like playing 5 v 6, if this means that 2 or 3 of those 5 Pokemon are on steroids.

 

[Fuzznip]

I'm going to argue against Deoxys-S's placement in S-rank, as I strongly believe it simply doesn't have the qualities to shine in the current metagame compared to past generations.

Deoxys-S's trademark suicide lead set is significantly worse than it was in the past. The rampant use of Defoggers, which are so easy to come by, single-handedly shuts down this kind of playstyle. Furthermore, there are so many threats nowadays that can easily prevent Deoxys-S from laying down both Stealth Rock and Spikes, such as Aegislash, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, Scizor, etc. An argument I recall about Deoxys-S is the fact that it's mostly used on (hyper) offense and thus it's teammates can take advantage of offensive presence to prevent a Defog or Rapid Spin user from removing the hazards; however, let's be real, in common battle conditions, I find it rather hard to believe this tactic is as viable as made to be. The number of times I've been against suicide Deoxys-S, I've eventually opened myself an opportunity to remove hazards, effectively making Deoxys-S's support nearly wasted. It really isn't that hard to A) keep Deoxys-S from setting up too many hazards and B) removing the hazards during the match. In the current metagame, you really need to be using reliable Stealth Rock setters with at least some longevity, otherwise you most likely won't be playing with hazards on your opponent's side. This is just what I've observed.

Now that I've established that suicide leads aren't exceptional this time around, I'll consider Deoxys-S's offensive Life Orb set. Firstly, take a look at the requirements for S-rank:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

This simply isn't true in my opinion. Deoxys-S can't really sweep a significant portion of the metagame with next to no support; it can be shut down or revenge killed by a good number of threats, such as Aegislash, (Mega) Scizor, (Mega) Lucario, Genesect, etc. I also don't think it's strong enough to break through defensive threats such as Sylveon, Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Latias. It's also not an easy task to bring Deoxys-S in safely to begin with due to its relative frailty. It's not that unpredictable or versatile either. It uses two different sets for the most part, one of which is a suicide lead (easy to determine) and the other a late-game cleaner. Finally, I don't consider Deoxys-S's strengths to outweigh its flaws, because it has a number of evident flaws despite its number of positive traits.

I would like to hear some more opinions on this, as I'm not sure if I'm just missing something apparent here, but for now, Deoxys-S should be moved to A+. It's still good at what it does, but I don't think it's exceptional to the extent that it could potentially be suspected and even banned, as in the past.

 

[SergantGold]

I have


About Espeon, it'sa clearly not C rank or D rank. Some one is saying that Excadrill is one of the best SR setters because it's not true. Excadrill is one of the better spinners but not one of the better SR setters with his average defenses. Also, suffers 4MSS if he is a Stelath Rock settter.

Terrible movepool?: Psychic, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam, Grass Knot, Hidden Power Fire/Fight as a offensive moves. Ands support options like Calm Mind, Reflect, Light Screen, Baton pass. I don't have it terrible compared to other OU pokemon.

Sorry, but I think that some of the competitive community has an anti-aura to use Eeveelutions, given recent experiences. I could admnit that could be overrated but the Eeveelution that are clearly not viable in OU aren't in the Top 150 (there's three of them).

I think that some people on Smogon are trying to reduce the outclassed pokemon as much as possible because the staff is limited, and there are too much pokemon and tiers that tat the minimum opportuny that is outclassed by other pokemon even if its slighty (Arcanine, Jolteon, Florges) to evade giving analysis to more than 150 pokemon with some of them having 10+ viable sets.

If the bolded is a good movepool then delphox has a good movepool
And Jolteon Florgres and Arcanine don't get analysises because they are completely and utterly outclassed by a single pokemon or are just aren't viable without more support than a D-rank mon requires.

 

[Ruffles]

Politoed's usefulness was never about him, it was about the support it could provide to its team. Sure, Politoed not being an absolute liability like Ninetales was and providing some useful things to the team (Perish Song was great for stall teams) was nice, but nothing more than the cherry on the top of an already delicious cake. Of course with the loss of its item Politoed is now individually way easier to handle, but the overall drop of its effectiveness that this causes is almost negligible in comparison to its main use, setting up rain. Of course due to rain no longer being infinite, Politoed should drop one rank, but no more, as rain teams are great playstyles atm and Politoed is their cornerstone.

Once again, Politoed losing some of its individual usefulness doesn't matter that much when he gives so much support to a team. And yeah, i certainly do like playing 5 v 6, if this means that 2 or 3 of those 5 Pokemon are on steroids.

In last gen, you could put pokemon which COMPLETELY depended on rain, such as Hurricane, x4(2) weak to fire, and Thunder users, this gen, when rain is out, you lost your effectiveness, and most of the times will switch out, to lessen that, Rain team pokemons usually carry a secondary stab (i.e Thunder & Thunderbolt) to be effective outside of rain, so that's 1 nuisance, the other nuisance is that you need to keep your Politaod alive for rain, because even if the opponent didn't have weather changer you can't let it die, as you will need the rain afterwards. So you need to switch out a lot, and now hazards hurt you b/c of that, so defog/rapid spin is even more mandatory, thirdly, you are most likely putting a pokemon who can set up Rain manually (Gen V UU) mostly as a secondary rain bringer. It's more like only you need 1 Drizzler, 1 Defog/Rapid Spin, 1 Rain Dance pokemon, 2 rain sweep pokemon, and 1 pokemon that can remove your team's overall weakness (mostly Electric / Grass), and if you follow that structure you won't get hazards on the opponent'
side, which means one of the Rain team niche: to force switches, will not be taken to full extent, Rain teams are also much easier to get around, especially with CharY around and the ability to control weather more freely (i.e when to mega evolve)

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

If the bolded is a good movepool then delphox has a good movepool
And Jolteon Florgres and Arcanine don't get analysises because they are completely and utterly outclassed by a single pokemon are just aren't viable without more support than w D-rank mon requires.

False. Those are blacklisted because they are outclassed by other pokemon.

About Florges, it's blacklisted because Sylveon has Heal Bell and Hyper Voice from B2W2 with outclass it. In the poractice, Florges has bigger stats thsan Sylveon in everything but HP, but look at this
252+ SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 76-91 (21.1 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Empoleon Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 87-103 (22 - 26.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
This gives the sensation that Florges is a terrible pokemon when it isn't.
In a pentagon megtagame Florges would be the same tier than Sylveon. Sylveon has more HP and better movepool and Florges has better SpD, Spe and Aromatherapy.

Arcanine is blacklisted because it's average in many categories and because Infernape does Flare Blitz/Close Combat better. But Arcanine had reliable bulk, reliable recovery with Morning Sun, and it's one of few users of Extremespeed that don't risk being banned. (yeah, there's Regular Lucario).

Jolteon is outclassed by Thundurus or even Raikou but has the advantage of Volt Absorb (Raikou's ability is unreleased); Baton Pass and the ability to outspeed Greninja.

Also there are trying to review some semi-viableand outclassed pokemon because Gen IV Electivire which even though there are 100 pokemon better than him, it was OU during all the gen.

 

[alexwolf]

In last gen, you could put pokemon which COMPLETELY depended on rain, such as Hurricane, x4(2) weak to fire, and Thunder users, this gen, when rain is out, you lost your effectiveness, and most of the times will switch out, to lessen that, Rain team pokemons usually carry a secondary stab (i.e Thunder & Thunderbolt) to be effective outside of rain, so that's 1 nuisance, the other nuisance is that you need to keep your Politaod alive for rain, because even if the opponent didn't have weather changer you can't let it die, as you will need the rain afterwards. So you need to switch out a lot, and now hazards hurt you b/c of that, so defog/rapid spin is even more mandatory, thirdly, you are most likely putting a pokemon who can set up Rain manually (Gen V UU) mostly as a secondary rain bringer. It's more like only you need 1 Drizzler, 1 Defog/Rapid Spin, 1 Rain Dance pokemon, 2 rain sweep pokemon, and 1 pokemon that can remove your team's overall weakness (mostly Electric / Grass), Rain teams are much easier to get around, especially with CharY around, and the ability to control weather more freely (i.e when to mega evolve)

You can as easily as in 5th gen, or even easier, make a completely rain dependent team in 6th gen. Unlike 5th gen, opposing weather inducers are not nearly as common, which means that rain will be up more often that in 5th gen, even though Toed's rain is no longer infinite. If you don't face an opposing weather team, all you have to do is be able to bring Politoed in 3-4 times, and you have 20-30 turns of uninterrupted rain (and more if you play with Politoed conservatively, or use it with slow pivots with U-turn / Volt Switch), which means that you can totally go with rain-dependent Pokemon, as long as you have a plan against sand teams.

Second, i don't get why using a Defog / Rapid Spin user is mandatory now, but it wasn't in 5th gen. In case you didn't know, Politoed had to switch around much more in 5th gen, due to opposing weather inducers being way more common, which means that anti-hazard measures were more important then than they are now. Not only this, but Defog didn't get rid of hazards in 5th gen, which means that your options to get rid of hazards were incredibly limited to ~3 Pokemon, while now you have more than 6-7 available Pokemon at your disposal.

Third, a Rain Dance Pokemon is not a must at all. It's just a measure you can take for opposing weather teams, but as i already explained, against weatherless teams, Politoed alone is enough. And it's definitely not the only measure you can take against other weather teams, so it's not like you have limited options on how to deal with opposing weather.

Fourth, you don't need any given number of sweepers. You can fit three, two, one, or even none, depending on your team's playstyle, and all options are very viable. Not only sweepers benefit from rain, with Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Assault Vest Tornadus-T, tank Dragonite, Tentacruel, Goodra, Scizor, Mega Aggron, and Aegislash being great Pokemon to use on rain teams, with incredible longevity and overall usefulness. Limiting yourself to ''2 sweepers at least'' is something you did for no good reason, other than to justify the use of Politoed in your eyes (there are many ways to justify the use of Politoed, not just sweepers).

Fifth, this is ridiculous: ''1 pokemon that can remove your team's overall weakness''. This is true for every single team out there, so its pointless to mention it as a con of using Politoed. Not to mention that rain teams are very versatile, which means that it's very easy to limit common weaknesses such as vulnerability to Electric and Water moves.

Sorry, but not a single one of your arguments is a reason as to why rain teams are worse in this gen.

 

[Vengeance417]

Jolteon is outclassed by Thundurus or even Raikou but has the advantage of Volt Absorb (Raikou's ability is unreleased); Baton Pass and the ability to outspeed Greninja.

Why would you use Baton Pass over Volt Switch with Jolteon?

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

In last gen, you could put pokemon which COMPLETELY depended on rain, such as Hurricane, x4(2) weak to fire, and Thunder users, this gen, when rain is out, you lost your effectiveness, and most of the times will switch out, to lessen that, Rain team pokemons usually carry a secondary stab (i.e Thunder & Thunderbolt) to be effective outside of rain, so that's 1 nuisance, the other nuisance is that you need to keep your Politaod alive for rain, because even if the opponent didn't have weather changer you can't let it die, as you will need the rain afterwards. So you need to switch out a lot, and now hazards hurt you b/c of that, so defog/rapid spin is even more mandatory, thirdly, you are most likely putting a pokemon who can set up Rain manually (Gen V UU) mostly as a secondary rain bringer. It's more like only you need 1 Drizzler, 1 Defog/Rapid Spin, 1 Rain Dance pokemon, 2 rain sweep pokemon, and 1 pokemon that can remove your team's overall weakness (mostly Electric / Grass), and if you follow that structure you won't get hazards on the opponent'
side, which means one of the Rain team niche: to force switches, will not be taken to full extent, Rain teams are also much easier to get around, especially with CharY around and the ability to control weather more freely (i.e when to mega evolve)

Then again, 6th Gen Rain teams are incredibly offensive, whereas 5th Gen Rain was more for Balanced/Defensive oriented teams, with some Offense from time to time. This is obviously due to the main offensive users of Rain either got banned (Torn-T) or their method of using rain got banned (DrizzleSwim), and that did happen due to it being infinite.

And the bolded part is not true for the current Rain, as all you need is Politoed. Switch him in once and you have rain for 8 turns. Which is actually quite a few turns, usually enough to blow through a pokemon or three on the opposing team. After that? Politoed can now be sacced for the Rain turns again. So, this Rain style is simply making sweepers into wallbreakers on steroids that more often than not care about typing synergy.

 

[Mood4food77]

Why would you use Baton Pass over Volt Switch with Jolteon?

outside of prankster taunt, nothing can stop you from BPing out, it works like volt switch without the damage
it also lets you escape dugtrio and other trappers

also, jolteon is outclassed by mega manectric entirely, in every way outside of not using a mega stone

 

[Ruffles]

Yes, you don't have to bring a secondary rain bringer or a hazard pokemon as long you do NOT encounter other weather teams, Tyranitar and CharY are common, if you face them, you'll probably regret not having secondary rain bringer or a hazard pokemon, wait not only that, if the opponent happens to have hazards on your side, your forced to switch, and you not having defog/rapid spin will hurt you.

Yes true you might as well function without sweeping rain-dependent pokemon, but, walls and stall that are dependent on rain (ex: Hydration Vaporeon) will also get hurt when rain is done, yes there are some pokemons that are still viable without rain, but at the same time they are not extremely viable in rain.

It does go for every team, and that's why I put it there.

It's not that I'm dissing on Politaod, he is a great pokemon with great utility, but it's not extremely great.

 

[Vengeance417]

outside of prankster taunt, nothing can stop you from BPing out, it works like volt switch without the damage
it also lets you escape dugtrio and other trappers

also, jolteon is outclassed by mega manectric entirely, in every way outside of not using a mega stone

Ah, that's true. Usually I run HP Ice to deal with Ground types like that (I've OHKO'd countless unsuspecting Garchomps with it), but I can see how BP would work without HP Ice in your arsenal.

 

[eddiefiv]

Not only sweepers benefit from rain, with Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Assault Vest Tornadus-T, tank Dragonite, Tentacruel, Goodra, Scizor, Mega Aggron, and Aegislash being great Pokemon to use on rain teams, with incredible longevity and overall usefulness. Limiting yourself to ''2 sweepers at least'' is something you did for no good reason, other than to justify the use of Politoed in your eyes (there are many ways to justify the use of Politoed, not just sweepers).

This is something I feel I should ask. Should we make mention of any of the other Megas not currently on the list? If we rank the Megas and their base forms, it might give a better idea of where some niches fit.

Abomasnow, since its the only hail inducer, has managed to remain OU. Mega Abomasnow may be better defensively but the loss of speed and Leftovers might not be worth it. If you wanted to sweep, you'd have a hard time, but he is likely to remain OU anyway. C

Aerodactyl might not be viable as a SRer but Mega has an attack and speed boost, and Tough Claws and with Roost he could last a bit of time. Maybe not A material because of Excadrill and Mamoswine. B/B-

Aggron is very good defensively, with prediction. Mega Aggron improves on this, only losing STAB and an immunity to recoil on Head Smash. With Rock Polish, his speed can reach some insane levels and still hit harder than a truck. The only thing that can be a problem is priority but there's no special priority (ignoring the uncommon Vacuum Wave), and Prankster only affects him if its Leech Seed or WoW. B-/B at best

Mega Banette gets the omnipresent Prankster. The only new thing he can do is Destiny Bond, and that can be very useful in a pinch. His increase in attack gives him a good Shadow Sneak if its not resisted. Overall, though, he may be outclassed by Sableye so C+ (And Sableye should be ranked as well)

Those are the unlisted Megas I have experience with. I may be getting ahead of myself but we should talk about remaining Megas since theyre not going anywhere.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah, you can talk about any MEvo you want. If the regular forme of the MEvo is viable in OU you can bring it up too, but if it isn't you can just talk separately about the MEvo.

 

[Oranos]

On the subject of pranksters...how is sableye not ranked?! This gem has been the cornerstone of my highest ranked teams and is just so friggin useful. He prevents any sort of set up with taunt, can burn threats and heal himself...All with priority! Add a stab knock off and he becomes incredibly disruptive. He has amazing typing in dark/ghost and can be surprisingly resilient with a bulky ev spread, being able to switch into a plethora of moves without too much trouble. I generally prefer him to klefki, who I only use when I need a fairy to wall dragon sweepers. I would absolutely say sableye at B+ and perhaps higher

Also, glad to see the OP get updated :D