Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

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About Crawdaunt: For one, permanent Rain is not a thing anymore. There's no point putting it in C+ because it's powerful under Rain, because weather is hardly ever used anymore. Its most spammable move is Knock Off anyway. For two, it's paper thin and dirt slow. It can't come in on anything. Like literally nothing. You need to sac something, double switch or use a slow Volt-Switcher just to bring Crawdaunt in safely. You also have to bring it in on something slower ideally, because anything faster will knock you out if not bring you down to red health. I'm sure that there's some situations where this isn't the case, but generally speaking Crawdaunt isn't good whatsoever at what it does.

Also about the Azumarill comparison? The reason Azumarill is better is because it can actually switch in on stuff. Dragon-immunity, U-turn resistance as well as Dark and Fighting, on top of usable bulk (Crawdaunt has exactly 0 bulk). It's much easier to fit it on a team compared to Crawdaunt (who can't even use its few resistances effectively because it's frail as hell and dirt slow and needs way too much support to even be effective). Put Crawdaunt in D and get it over with imo, It has a niche as a powerful wallbreaker, but generally you're much better of running Azumarill in OU. If you play to win, don't use Crawdaunt. It's as simple as that really. It's not worth your trouble.
 
also mega alakazam isn't listed whereas alazakam is.

Mega Alakazam is in a weird position where it don't really have many advantages compared to its non Mega Form

Trace is inconsistent, and inconsistent is banned if you know what I mean. Jokes aside, it allows Zam to steal adaptability(stealing Adaptability from Special Mega Luca can be hilarious), Intimidate, Protean, Compoundeyes(I like Focus Blast that did not miss) or Natural Cure, but there is also times when you stole abilities that might as well do nothing

Stats wise, its only advantage is outspeeding Greninja. It can't think of a pokemon above Alakazam Speed that is relevant aside from it, Jolteon, and Aerodactyl

"But Alakazam have massive 175 SPA!"

Yeah so? Vanilla Alakazam have mind blowing 190 SPA with Life Orb with no downside aside from Knock Off, and Knock Off hits pretty much killed it anyway

This is before we consider its 80 BP Moves. This make a lot of difference. For example, Kingdra with Hydro Pump almost hit harder, and thats a pokemon with nearly half of Mega Alakazam SPA

I think C Rank fits Mega Alakazam

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

- The right support would be to provide Mega Zam the chance to get a switch to pokemon with proper ability. This is not consistent because you need to rely on your opponent's team composition, and also play the game properly much like Ditto

- Alakazam outclassed Mega Alakazam. Megazam have Trace shenanigans, outspeeding Greninja, and trick immunity. Alakazam have Magic Guard which means it did not give a shit to Hazzard damage all game unlike Mega!Zam post evo. It can also be a one use Revenge killer with Focus Sash, and get 190 SPA with Life Orb with no LO downside

Pretty ironic if you ask me
 
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Deoxys-D has two flaws that keep it from being S rank in my opinion 1. support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost. ("free turns") .
Lets look at how much offensive presence spiker Deoxys has... well the answer is none really. Sesimic toss is its most threating offensive more which is maybe... a 3HKO at most. Deoxys Defense is set up fodder it doesn't matter how many spikes you set up if you let your opponent get to get a free SD/NP on his Lucario or a free Dragon Dances on his Dragonite. Deoxys-D gives free turns and that is the first issue that keeps it away from S.
The second issue is that S is Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability.
How versatile is Deoxys-D well I'm just going to list off its possible moves: Recover, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Reflect, Light Screen, Night Shade, Sesimic Toss, Toxic, Spikes... Magic Coat. This is not versatile and completely predictable, Deoxys-D doesn't have offensive presence with any set and because of this can be countered easily by set-up sweepers and taunters. Taunt again plays into the free turns aspect once Deoxys-D is taunted you either have to give up HP and more free turns staying in or switch and give up that turn to your opponent. These two reasons keep Deoxys-D from being S. Its fine where it is right now.

That's wrong, deo-d is quite versatile. As for one, his item adds a layer of versatility: I have 101 subs and can set up on him, but he might have red card! Or he could even taunt me? Then I'll just go into my mandibuzz and taunt it while defogging away any hazards he sets, right? Wrong! He actually has magic coat and bounces back my taunt while I'm forced to switch out into my aegislash, I'm immune to seismic toss. Oh no! He even has knock off! Now I lost my item too.

That's just one of the several scenarios you may encounter with deo-d. He is most certainly not predictable and can turn the tables on you with the right moves and correct timing.

Here's my view on some of the tops threats of the metagame right now.

Pinsir - I honestly think that Pinsir should be put in S rank. It's incredible power and amazing Speed makes it so good right now, and it's so hard to revenge kill because it's bulky enough to live most priority attacks. The only offensive threats that keep it in check are Mamoswine, Thundurus-I, Talonflame, and bulky Choice Scarf users. It's checks are few and far between, and most of them are pretty easily worn down, like Rotom-W and Thundurus-I. The only real down side to using Pinsir is the SR weakness, but removing hazards has never been so easy, with Excadrill being a great Rapid Spinner and Defogers being everywhere. Plus, Pinsir is only x2 weak to SR before it Mega Evolves, so it really isn't too big of a deal to have Stealth Rock up.

Deoxys-S - Another S rank Pokemon that I think could be moved down to A+. I think it's ability to set up entry hazards isn't nearly as scary as it used to be, just because Excadrill and Defog users can remove them pretty easily. HO teams go to a lot of trouble just to keep their hazards up (using Bisharp + a spin blocker), and even then they can be removed. The full out attacker set is still incredibly dangerous with it's incredible speed and coverage, which is why I'd class is as A+ rank.

I could also see Skarmory being bumped up to A rank, just because it's one of the few Defogers that can beat Bisharp and has incredible synergy with Venusaur, but I haven't had too much experience with Skarmory yet so that's just food for thought.

alexwolf EDIT: Removed the stuff about Rotom-W and Mega Venusaur.

You completely forgot that skarmory walls mega pinsir to hell and back unless you catch him with an eq on the roost, which is unlikely. It can also bb so you can't just stay in either, you're forced out completely. I would definitely nominate skarmory for A rank, despite the nerf of steels he still reigns as basically the physically defensive god of all pokemon, and the simple fact that he probably needs to be eliminated/heavily weakened so that you're not cockblocked every time you attempt to do any physical damage to a team is alone to warrant it an A rank.

On the flip side (sorta), mega pinsir totally needs the S rank. His return alone is enough to outright KO things like goodra (with max hp!!)
His raw power of 155 base attack and aerilate STAB return is simply too much to handle, and once you let him get an SD up, if you don't have a skarmory its gg. The scariest thing is that his STAB is one of the most potent ones: flying. Its very easy to wear down the few checks teams possess to take flying attacks and just blow through teams with return+quick attack. Let's check the description for "S" rank again:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Pinsir: Can certainly sweep significant portions of the metagame with raw power alone and only needs support to get rid of skarm and weaken rotom-w, which isn't too hard at all.
However, it is totally predictable. The damn moment you see a pinsir on a team, you can bet your ass its a mega pinsir with max att/max spe jolly nature and carrying the moves SD/return/QA/eq. It's pretty crystal clear what pinsir will do whenever you see it.
But it doesn't really matter if you know what its going to do if you don't have anything to handle it :P

However, once one pokemon has died, there are countless offensive checks that can take a QA (some even boosted) and can clean out pinsir with powerful attacks, maiming his lesser special defense and his horrid defensive typing. These include mamoswine, terrakion, LO latios, scarf landorus-t, among many others. You have to keep in mind that these things (especially scarf landorus-t) need significant weakening in order to pick off with boosted QA

Still, his role (smacking the shit out of everything) is done very well, and it definitely mitigates his flaws of being somewhat easy to revenge kill. If we ever decide to suspect this beast, I'd definitely be ok with it.
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Supporting S Rank nomination
A lot has been said already for Mega Pinsir and to be honest, I don't think one can argue otherwise. Mega Pinsir's golden ticket into S Rank has to be the combination of Aerialate and Quick Attack. In a metagame where priority thrives, Mega Pinsir fits right in.
However, I feel that one thing should be taken into consideration. The number of offensive checks that exist seem a little too unhealthy for Mega Pinsir.
Sash Mamoswine can easily come in for a revenge kill, eating up a Quick Attack or taking an Return with the Sash. Talonflame is another huge issue for Mega Pinsir as Brave Bird seals the deal on Mega Pinsir, no questions asked. Scarfed Tyranitar, while rare, is still a check to be considered as a Stone Edge is a clean OHKO on Mega Pinsir. Scarfed Landorus-T, Scarfed Terrakion and Scarfed Genesect all play the same game with Mega Pinsir. Air Balloon Heatran while it is a bit of a stretch, works nonetheless. I'm not saying Mega Pinsir shouldn't go up - I'm just wondering if all of these various conditions have been considered before throwing him up there. Mega Pinsir is more than capable of sweeping the entire OU metagame ; it's just a matter of how consistently he can perform that role with all these offensive checks running around in OU.

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Supporting S Rank nomination
Mega Charizard X is more than capable of sweeping the OU metagame with his two STABs alone, thanks to their near perfect coverage. Mega Charizard X boasts versatility making him difficult to counter head-on. Tank MegaZard X neuters threats such as Tyranitar and Azumarill with Will O Wisp while Swords Dance can become an extremely threatening wall-breaker. (And of course there's Dragon Dance). Mega Charizard X has very few glaring flaws that prevent him performing his job consistently.
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Deserves B rank not B-
B- Rank is too low. Lucario is a lethal sweeper late-game and very few things can stand up to a +2 Extreme Speed after taking prior damage. His offensive prowess alone should be enough to merit B Rank. I mean, honestly, there's no way Infernape is outperforming Lucario lol.

Char-x definitely needs S rank. His fire/dragon typing is amazing, he literally only needs stabs, he doesn't get owned by any specific priority (other than banded brave bird (but half the relevant sweepers in the tier are killed by that.)) and he has one of the best boosting moves in the game, dragon dance. Obviously he can sweep with these, but he CAN be versatile and thus more dangerous! He can carry WoW and go the bulky route to neuter azumarill and ttar switch ins, he can just flat out carry t-punch for azumarill, he can swords dance to wallbreak and annihilate that sp. def hippowdon switch-in, there are several things he can do, unlike mega pinsir.

He also is tough to revenge kill. You're more or less limited to very very fast scarfers like terrakion and latios because 100 speed is a pretty nice speed tier and you need to be above it to try and revenge kill him.

His real only flaw in my eyes, SR, can easily be removed due to several viable spinners and defoggers being available to the tier and is honestly quite independent on a team. Char-x for S rank.

Added a ''Conclusion reached'' Pokemon category in the OP and fixed the Salamence error.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/xy-ou-viability-ranking-thread.3495992/page-17#post-5105274

DD Crawdaunt sucks, never use it. Either use CB or LO + 3 attacks + SD. Azumarill is leagues behind Crawdaunt's wallbreaking potential, so Azumarill doesn't outclass it, although it does give it significant competition as a strong physical Water-type with priority. Anyway, Crawdaunt is an unstoppable wallbreaker in rain, but it needs a ton of support and its low Speed and frailty often make it very difficult to switch in and attack, and for this reason it should be C+.

Moving on...
Agreeing with this, and i would like to go one step further, and suggest Celebi for B Rank. Here are the reasons:

1. Celebi fares much better than Mega Venusaur against your typical dedicated sand and rain team. Unlike Mega Venusaur, Celebi has reliable recovery instead of 25% recovery and no Lefties under weather, which means that it's actually able to switch in as long as he wants against the Pokemon it walls, instead of being forced to be super careful and conserve its HP until the end, just to check Excadrill or Terrakion. Also, thanks to its Ground resistance, physically defensive Celebi walls Sand Rush Excadrill without SD (the most common set from my experience), as well as taking anything Terrakion can throw at it, except from CB Stone Edge. The same is true against rain teams. While Celebi may not be able to wall CB Azumarill without using max Def+ and can't switch in at all into Crawdaunt, the fact that it stops cold so many members of a rain team (Politoed, Tentacruel, Keldeo, Starmie, Kabutops, Thundurus, and more) while checking some more (Azumarill and Goodra), combined with reliable recovery and Natural Cure make it much more suited at handling rain teams than Mega Venusaur.

2. Celebi can fit on sand and rain teams, unlike Mega Venusaur. This is obvious, but a defensive Pokemon can't function without reliable recovery. So unless you plan on going on the offensive, with a 3 attacks + Leech Seed set, Mega Venusaur doesn't fit well on dedicated weather abusing teams.

3. Celebi offers more team support than Mega Venusaur. Celebi can successfully utilize all of Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Heal Bell, U-turn, Nasty Plot, Calm Mind, and Baton Pass, with the most significant of those being Stealth Rock and U-turn. With those two moves, Celebi fits nicely on many Volt-turn teams, serving as the team's answer to Rotom-W, reliable SR setter, and a great pivot.

4. Celebi counters 100% Rotom-W and is not as easy as Mega Venusaur to wear down. Thanks to Natural Cure and Leftovers, Celebi doesn't care at all about getting burned or SR being up, while if Mega Venusaur is burned and SR is up, Mega Venusaur is taking 25% damage + Volt Switch damage every time it switches into Rotom-W, which is not a reliable way of handling Rotom-W at all. I am not doubting that Mega Venusar is a great check to the washing machine, but for teams that want a full stop to Rotom-W and something that isn't so easy to wear down with SR, Celebi is a very viable alternative.

5. Celebi doesn't occupy your Mega Slot. Teams with other excellent MEvos, such as Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, Mega Mawile, and Mega Garchomp, can't use Mega Venusaur, so Celebi becomes one of your best options for a bulky Grass-type.

Obviously being incredibly weak to extremely common and effective Pokemon such as Genesect, Mega Charizard X + Y, Aegislash, Bisharp, and Talonflame sucks, and this is why i am only nominating Celebi for B Rank and not any higher, as you will need significant team support to cover its weaknesses.


Kyurem-B for A+ Rank. What is this monster doing in A Rank i don't even.... Honestly i feel stupid that i even have to talk about this one. Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in the game, arguably the best and on par with Mega Char Y, but unlike Mega Char Y it doesn't occupy your Mega Slot and is not 4x weak to Stealth Rock, while also possessing tremendous bulk on both sides of the spectrum. Yeah it is SR weak, has mediocre Speed for an offensive Pokemon, and is easy to revenge kill, but aside from the SR weakness, which is not hard at all to cover, the other weaknesses don't intercept at all Kyu-B's job, which is to wallbreak. So what if Kyu-B is weak to common offensive types (Fighting, Rock, Steel, Dragon), if it has already ripped apart your defensive core? Similarly, what does it matter if it is outsped by most offensive Pokemon when it outspeeds every single wall in OU? Not to mention that thanks to its useful typing and great bulk, Kyu-B has a lot of use even against offensive teams, as it checks top tier threats such as Rotom-W, Manaphy, Greninja, and Mega Venusaur.

So, Kyu-B is one of the best wallbreakers in OU, which also acts as a great check to many offensive Pokemon, while needing very little support to function (basically just have a way to deal with SR). It is a blasphemy to have Mega Charizard Y in A+ but not Kyurem-B.

Totally agree with kyu-b for A+ rank, just because it doesn't have the heavenly raw power of drought boosted 159 base STAB fire blast, it certainly doesn't discount him from only being in A rank. I've already ranted about him though so I won't start again.

Dragonite needs to move up to A+.
It's easily one of the best setup sweepers, and with Multiscale, it's almost guaranteed one turn of setup. Furthermore, it is easily the best user of Weakness Policy. It can either lure a Super Effective hit to activate the Weakness Policy, or it could make the opponent shy away from hitting it super effectively to avoid the boost.

Of course, Dragonite isn't limited to just that set. It can also pull off a bulky set with Roost and Dragon Dance (my personal favorite; it is a nuke), a classic Mixed Attacker, a Choice Band set, the always annoying ParaShuffle set, an Assault Vest Tank, and even a Special Rain Sweeper (not as common with the nerf of rain, but it's still a very viable set).

Some of these sets are only decent in 5th gen, and are just bad ideas in general. A mixed attacker is pretty outclassed by hydreigon, who boasts a better movepool, lack of SR weakness, and higher speed. An AV tank his such a dumb idea lol if you have reliable recovery you shouldn't be holding an AV no questions asked. A special rain "Sweeper" is sorely outclassed by tornadus-T who boasts regenerator, far far higher speed, and more special attack while also having access to u-turn and focus blast to get around steels. Any special set is basically just pooped on by any specially defensive fairy (togekiss, sylveon) and should not be considered in 6th gen. A bulky set with roost and dragon dance is just outclassed by char-x I feel as he is immune to burn and has a better defensive typing while only needing STABs to sweep. Your bulky dd dnite however needs a sub to avoid status and now dragon is not only resisted by steel but is covered by fairy as well, making the idea of sub/roost/dd/dragon claw quite unattractive (not to mention sylveon is hitting you through the sub).

That aside, weakness policy is very annoying to face, as it basically forces smart players to attack with a resisted or neutral hit first to break multiscale before attempting to kill, and sometimes 1 dd is all you need to just clean up. The CB set is a monster, 2hko'ing even fully defensive hippowdon and boasting basically the best priority in the game, letting it act as an amazing wallbreaker and a great revenge killer. The ParaShuffle set could work, but I feel that wouldn't do as much due to the prevalence of rotom-w and lando-t, not to mention paralysis doesn't effect electric types anymore.
 
Flare Blitz should be Mega Charizard X's main Fire Type STAB. The sheer amount of power it packs completely debunks the whole BP argument. Roost compensates for the recoil and honestly Mega Charizard X doesn't really have to worry about losing out on coverage because Flare Blitz + Dragon Claw/Outrage is more than enough

Dragon Claw is a little underwhelming but with STAB, +1 from Dragon Dance and Tough Claws all put together, Dragon Claw should be dishing out clean 2HKOs and KOs.
Once any major Dragon resist Pokemon are gone from the field, Outrage is one of the best cleaning tools out there thanks to its incredible power.

There aren't too many safe switch-ins for Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance and it isn't super easy to revenge a healthy Mega Charizard X either.

Yeah flare blitz is probably usable, but Outrage may require some time to be tested out, by the time we may have to stick with the weaker Dragon Claw if one don't want to bare too much risk.

Anyway, I am still not entirely optimistic that its offensive presence alone can push it to S. But one thing rather interesting is that it actually has a slot(skip DD or roost, use fire punch instead in the later case) for WoW, though I am not entirely sure what will that do.
 
Nominating Breloom for B+/B Rank

Breloom remains a big offensive threat this generation. Fighting may have lost some value in the generation shift, but the Grass type becoming immune to opponent grass status moves is awesome. Low sweep unfortunately now falls out of Technician range. However Rock Tomb has gained much more viability in terms of coverage with new threats such as Talonflame, M-Pinsir and M-Charizard Y who might be switching in. Between the fear of Rock Tomb's speed drop, and the infamous Spore, there aren't many pokemon who can switch into Breloom safely besides opponent Grass types. Trevenant,
Gourgeist, Sap Sipper Goodra are huge counters. Breloom of course appreciates SR support to chip away to opponent flying types that he fears as well as Volcarona.
 
I definitely think, Zapdos would like to move up to at least B+. Having tried out a balanced team with it, I'm genuinely impressed, how tanky this thing is. Being one of the few things, that can reliable beat the majority of M-Lucario sets (physical and special alike!), is just super awesome, and it checks a tonne of other threatening things in this metagame, including but not limited to: Aegislash, Scizor, Genesect (even tanks an unboosted Ice Beam...!), M-Pinsir, Thundurus, even some Keldeo. Pressure is a fantastic ability on something so bulky - when I can't beat something out one-on-one, I can easily PP-stall a lot of dangerous moves to in the end essentially cripple them, and its quite decent 100 Spe is great to exploit this against slower opponents. Defog only makes Zapdos even more useful. Its probably one biggest drawback is its Stealth Rock (bad, when you're a defogger), which is probably the only reason, it might not go to A (but then again, Mandibuzz has this same problem, and it is at the moment A...)
 
Agree that Skarmory need to be raised to A, it is still the premier physical wall we have, especially when Msaur is not checking fly types.

I definitely think, Zapdos would like to move up to at least B+. Having tried out a balanced team with it, I'm genuinely impressed, how tanky this thing is. Being one of the few things, that can reliable beat the majority of M-Lucario sets (physical and special alike!), is just super awesome, and it checks a tonne of other threatening things in this metagame, including but not limited to: Aegislash, Scizor, Genesect (even tanks an unboosted Ice Beam...!), M-Pinsir, Thundurus, even some Keldeo. Pressure is a fantastic ability on something so bulky - when I can't beat something out one-on-one, I can easily PP-stall a lot of dangerous moves to in the end essentially cripple them, and its quite decent 100 Spe is great to exploit this against slower opponents. Defog only makes Zapdos even more useful. Its probably one biggest drawback is its Stealth Rock (bad, when you're a defogger), which is probably the only reason, it might not go to A (but then again, Mandibuzz has this same problem, and it is at the moment A...)

I question Zapdos will ever make A, the major drawback is its about average defensive stats which makes it rather painful to be used with.

On the other hand, I would like to nominate Moltres for B-/C+, though I am not entirely sure if it gets an analysis(it got one for the RAIN team in the last gen, lol). While it looks really gimmick at the first sight, Flame body is one of the most annoying ability one may look for. Its defensive stats, like Zapdos, is at least useful, but besides that burn is definitely a worse status than paralyse. And its typing still manage to check quite some things, most notably phsical MLucario, who may rage quit immediately after they get burnt. SR is still an issue but less so now I may say, and probably even less in the future. Nonetheless, stoping the switch in attempts of opponent Lucario without SR on your side is still very nice.

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Moltres: 110-130 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(110, 111, 113, 114, 115, 117, 118, 119, 120, 122, 123, 124, 126, 127, 128, 130)


Just switch any time you want because you still survive a hit and has 30% chance to burn Lucario(though it would likely be useless since than), and if you do burn it you can even roost on his face.

The issue here is it faces competition with Volcarona, but its physical bulkiness is way superior so I think it is fine. Fire/Fly may also be a better typing due its immunity to EQ, which is the premier non-contact move, but Volc takes neutral damage to it anyway, and can actually roost on the opponent's face(though I doubt if they may do so).
 
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Flame body is not released and i think theres a general consensus that moltres is a terrible check for lucario due to absolutely requiring stealth rocks off the field, unlike zapdos. If anything, it should be ranked based on its offensive rain sets.
 
I however find zard X a bit questionable, mainly because of the underwhelming BP of the moves viable. Outrage and Flare Blitz both have very significant drawback so it may not be a good choice to consider. The potential is there, but I think it may take more time to pend out. By now, it is perhaps better for it to stay with Kyu-B for a while.
The best 3 attacks moveset is DD / Dragon Claw / Flare Blitz / Earthquake. With this moveset, you basically spam Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz only when you need to. So no, you don't need to Outrage. Dragon Claw is damn powerful after a boost, 2HKOing stuff like Vaporeon, Jellicent, and Rotom-W with ease. Oh, and Rotom-W: it's the most common Pokemon in OU, and Megazard X sets up all in its face. Genesect? Unless it's CB ESpeed, Megazard X goes to town. Aegislash? Fat chance that can stay in at all. Mega Venusaur? lol. Lucario can't do shit once it's boosted, and can't switch in at all. So right there, 4/5 of S Rank destroyed by it.

A+ Rank. Heatran is destroyed by EQ. Megazard Y loses to +1 DClaw. Non-Scarf Garchomp get stomped. Manaphy has a 62.5% to be OHKOed by Dragon Claw after SR, and can't switch into anything. The aforementioned Rotom-W dies to it. Mega Pinsir loses. Landorus loses. So, like 6.5 (because ScarfChomp is common)/10 Pokemon in A+ Rank are destroyed by it.

Virtually all of A Rank besides Landorus-T, Gliscor, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Azumarill gets murdered. That's like 18.5/23 right there.

There are certainly ways to handle Megazard X in OU -- some of them I mentioned from the ranks I covered -- but the fact remains that Megazard X fulfills the S Rank definition.
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
I've established that Megazard X can sweep significant portions of the metagame. It also requires little support to do so -- literally all you need to do is wear down Landorus-T and Gliscor throughout the battle, which isn't really that hard, as Megazard X's Dragon Claw/Flare Blitz, even after Intimidate, does a number. Gliscor requires a bit more support to take out, but the point remains. You also need to eliminate Azumarill, and a couple other things, like faster Scarfers. Still, that's not that hard, and requires little dedicated support. It's only a few things that Megazard X has trouble with. Defog support is nice, but not 100% necessary.

It is also versatile. A set with Roost can heal up and thus protect itself revenge killing. It can run Outrage as an insanely powerful Dragon STAB. A bulky set with Will-O-Wisp can serve as a good check to a variety of things that still hits very hard, and can potentially provide Defog support. Plus, it's unpredictable, as the opponent doesn't know whether it is one of those sets, or even Megazard X at all (until it Mega Evolves it's a guessing game as to whether it might be Megazard Y). This unpredictability and versatility only add to how Mega Charizard X is a clear S Rank.

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I want now to address the Mega Pinsir discussion: it deserves S Rank. A lot of people have covered it nicely. I'll just quote a few posts here:
Srn9130 said:
On the flip side (sorta), mega pinsir totally needs the S rank. His return alone is enough to outright KO things like goodra (with max hp!!)
His raw power of 155 base attack and aerilate STAB return is simply too much to handle, and once you let him get an SD up, if you don't have a skarmory its gg. The scariest thing is that his STAB is one of the most potent ones: flying. Its very easy to wear down the few checks teams possess to take flying attacks and just blow through teams with return+quick attack. Let's check the description for "S" rank again:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.
Pinsir: Can certainly sweep significant portions of the metagame with raw power alone and only needs support to get rid of skarm and weaken rotom-w, which isn't too hard at all.
However, it is totally predictable. The damn moment you see a pinsir on a team, you can bet your ass its a mega pinsir with max att/max spe jolly nature and carrying the moves SD/return/QA/eq. It's pretty crystal clear what pinsir will do whenever you see it.
But it doesn't really matter if you know what its going to do if you don't have anything to handle it :P

However, once one pokemon has died, there are countless offensive checks that can take a QA (some even boosted) and can clean out pinsir with powerful attacks, maiming his lesser special defense and his horrid defensive typing. These include mamoswine, terrakion, LO latios, scarf landorus-t, among many others. You have to keep in mind that these things (especially scarf landorus-t) need significant weakening in order to pick off with boosted QA

Still, his role (smacking the shit out of everything) is done very well, and it definitely mitigates his flaws of being somewhat easy to revenge kill. If we ever decide to suspect this beast, I'd definitely be ok with it.
Photofluid said:
For Mega-Pinsir, revenge kill is an over-worry, it can just switch in untouched with pivot and spinner support like other poke, hitting opponent switch in with some 40% health at least, and switch out like nothing have happened. Like other sweepers, it will only pull off the set up in the late game, and in that case the only thing having a chance to stop it is Talonflame or perhaps ES Mega Lucario if it is low enough. 105 speed is enough to outrun most priority users and kill them with its own quick attack.

In fact, as the meta progresses, with Genesect and Rotom-W everywhere, and SR effectiveness is still having its free fall game, MPinsir is an increasing force to be reckoned. The only reason it looks so underwhelming is only because its bug type looks really ugly. But when you think of it, when the other STAB is arguably the top mono offensive typing(along with Fairies and Ghost I think) with a free 1.3* boost, your "secondary" typing is not going to hold you back too much as long as it was not ice perhaps.
ShootingStarmie said:
Pinsir - I honestly think that Pinsir should be put in S rank. It's incredible power and amazing Speed makes it so good right now, and it's so hard to revenge kill because it's bulky enough to live most priority attacks. The only offensive threats that keep it in check are Mamoswine, Thundurus-I, Talonflame, and bulky Choice Scarf users. It's checks are few and far between, and most of them are pretty easily worn down, like Rotom-W and Thundurus-I. The only real down side to using Pinsir is the SR weakness, but removing hazards has never been so easy, with Excadrill being a great Rapid Spinner and Defogers being everywhere. Plus, Pinsir is only x2 weak to SR before it Mega Evolves, so it really isn't too big of a deal to have Stealth Rock up.
These points sum up the argument excellently. Mega Pinsir sweeps through so much of the metagame and is just overall a major force to be reckoned with. Sure, there are offensive checks, and sure, it's 4x to weak to SR (though not on the first switch-in before it Mega Evolves, so SR really isn't that a big of a deal), but it's a sweeper with extremely powerful attacks, STAB ~53 BP priority move, and the potential to eliminate a portion of blocks to it depending on whether it runs CC, EQ, or Stone Edge in the last slot, make it a true top-tier OU sweeper and one of the most devastating threats around -- a true S Rank.

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Tabuu said:
B- Rank is too low. Lucario is a lethal sweeper late-game and very few things can stand up to a +2 Extreme Speed after taking prior damage. His offensive prowess alone should be enough to merit B Rank. I mean, honestly, there's no way Infernape is outperforming Lucario lol.
The issue with Lucario is just...it's too slow, and Extreme Speed makes up for that to an extent, but not fully. It's a difficult Pokemon to work with, and requires a pretty significant amount of support. It's really not that difficult to deal with, as the metagame packs a good number of checks and counters to it...including basically anything faster that can live a +2 Extreme Speed, which is a significant portion of threats, and Talonflame. This is not to say that Lucario isn't good -- it just isn't B Rank material. B- suits it well. If you want to argue about moving Infernape down, then that's another story, but don't use Infernape's placement as a judgment for Lucario.

I'm honestly surprised to see Diggersby so low. Dice covers it pretty well:
Dice said:
excadrill doesn't have 4mss, sr / eq / iron head / rapin spin is standard.

anyway, a few adjustments i think are necessary

Diggersby (C) --> B(+ maybe?)
Diggersby has a cute niche of checking Aegislash and Tyranitar and it's dangerous with an SD set; being able to heavily damage the typical team and weakening physical walls with a +2 Return easily allows for another sweeper on your team to break through walls. It isn't garbage against Offense either; the bunny gets Quick Attack which means it'll be doing heavy damage to several offensive Pokemon.


+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 265-313 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Is just an example of how STAB Quick Attack is no slouch. Of course, Diggersby's best set (SD/EQ/QA/Return) is hopelessly walled by Gengar and checked by Pokemon like Mega Lucario relatively well; however, it's far better than C-rank and it's definitely a legitimate Pokemon in the meta.

Ferrothorn (A) --> B(+ maybe?)
Ferrothorn has the niche of countering Manaphy, but it doesn't do much else that other steels don't. Due to the lack of rain, it now has to beware of the random HP Fire Lati@s which will ruin its day along with the rise of threats such as Defog + Heat Wave Zapdos and Taunt + Defog Mandibuzz which hard counter it. Ferrothorn has 4MSS so it's far harder to fit things like Toxic which other Spikers can, and I just don't really like Ferrothorn in the meta. It's begging for either Zard to come in, which is always a bad thing, and the ubiquity of Focus Blast on things like Landorus and Thundurus means that Ferrothorn is having a hard time checking any other top-tier mons.
Diggersby is a powerful sweeper with priority, and is really, really dangerous. It also has versatility in that it can run an effective Choice Scarf revenge killing set with the invaluable U-turn, and a deadly Choice Band set that boasts immense immediate power. Diggersby is really strong, and B would make a good place for it.

The suggestion for Ferrothorn seems on target, too.

Agreeing with sidakarya on Zapdos. It's a really good Pokemon in the metagame, serving as a great way to handle a number of things, including special Mega Lucario, a threat that's almost impossible to counter otherwise.

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B Rank looks rather crowded, and I think a few things can be sorted out:

Mega Absol for B-: In all my experiences fighting Mega Absol, it's really never been that difficult to deal with. Magic Bounce is a nice ability, but Mega Absol has trouble against many hazard users. It isn't too complicated to check either, and has an unfortunate inability to run Knock Off + Play Rough, its best coverage move. Access to Fire Blast and Ice Beam is nice, and there's no denying that Mega Absol is a veritable offensive threat with an SD boost, but it's just not all that threatening.

Agreeing with previous posts on Espeon for C+. There's not a whole lot else to say here.

Entei for B-: I just really don't see Entei as B Rank-level threat. Sacred Fire is indeed an awesome move, and priority Extreme Speed is excellent, but Entei just really isn't that complicated to check. Your bulky Ground-type (Landorus-T/Gliscor), your bulky Water-type (Vaporeon/Slowbro/Rotom-W), both Megazards, Talonflame, Manaphy, etc. are so detrimental to it. Although, they don't all appreciate a Sacred Fire burn, they can still switch in, and Entei isn't that great at breaking them. All in all, while the buff in Sacred Fire and reliability/burns it gives are great, it isn't enough to put Entei all the way up in B.

Sylveon for B+: I'm really surprised to see Sylveon down in B Rank, below Clefable no less. Sylveon's special walling capabilities are just excellent. It serves as a great Dragon- and Fighting-type check, destroys Aegislash without a Steel-type move, walls Deoxys-S with ease, handles Thundurus and Landorus good, counters Greninja...Sylveon boasts excellent walling capabilities. Walling isn't all Sylveon is good for though -- I wouldn't be nominating it for B+ if this was so. It also boasts insane utility. Wish is a great move, supporting teammates, and with Protect gives Sylveon reliable recovery. Protect lets Sylveon scout and stall weather turns, and overall eases prediction hugely. Against a Genesect and want to check if it's gonna U-turn or Iron Head? Protect. That's just one example. It also provides invaluable cleric support -- there aren't that many clerics in this metagame either. Not only this, but Sylveon has decent power, even with a bulky set, given Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice, and can boost to handle special threats even better, hit harder, and sweep late-game with its checks and counters removed. This is not even taking into consideration the excellent Choice Specs set, which hits hard with Hyper Voice, has Psyshock to murder Mega Venusaur, and can utilize a powerful Pixilate-boosted Echoed Voice given the opportunity. There's also a Choice Scarf set, which can revenge kill decently and take advantage of Echoed Voice, too. All in all, Sylveon is bursting with qualities that make it worth B+.

Jellicent for B-: Jellicent really took a hit in XY. It just can't...wall that much anymore, and its placement in B Rank surprises me. Handling Mega Lucario is indeed an excellent trait, but it loses to so many top threats. Setup fodder for Megazard X, loses to Megazard Y's Solar Beam, crushed by Landorus-I, murdered by Thundurus-I, eliminated by Manaphy's Energy Ball...there's just so much it can't do in OU; B- fits it. Honestly, I could see it in C+. B- is almost being too generous, but that's what I'll nominate it for, as it does have some perks.

Krookodile for B-: I love Krookodile, and have used it with nice results, but B Rank is just too generous to to it. Krookodile boasts STAB Knock Off and Earthquake, as well as access to Stealth Rock and Taunt with Intimidate, allowing it to function as an effective defensive check to various things, and can even run a deadly offensive set with Moxie. However, it's weak to Fairy, Fighting, and Water -- three common types -- and is boned by Mega Venusaur. It can handle a solid amount of things, but it isn't too complicated to wear down, lacking recovery out of Leftovers. Although it is difficult to wear down and effective if you know how to use it, I plainly don't see Krookodile as a B Rank threat. It also faces competitionB- fits it much better.

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Ctrl + F Vaporeon, nothing found. I've used Vaporeon extensively, and it has a solid niche in the OU tier. Boasting sizable defenses, Vaporeon can take hits from a good chunk of things well, including but not limited to everything from Genesect but Thunderbolt, Aegislash, Deoxys-S, Heatran, Talonflame, Gengar, Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Mawile, bulky Landorus-T, and more. It too, like Sylveon, is bursting with utility. It can spread burn with Scald, cripple bulky Pokemon like Rotom-W with Toxic, provide cleric support, and even phaze, depending on what you choose for the last moveslot. It can also provide Wish support and scout/stall weather turns/get reliable recovery with Protect. Unfortunately, its physical bulk isn't /amazing/, in addition to some other flaws. It fits the definition of B Rank excellently imo.
B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.
Vaporeon fulfills a good defensive niche, able to handle a solid array of threats in the OU metagame. It has some flaws, and is setup bait for certain sweepers without Roar (few physical ones appreciate a Scald burn, though). Overall, B fits it well based on this definition. B or B- for Vaporeon.

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On Moltres: C is the best fit for it, I think. I played with it for a good, maybe, 15 battles (the defensive set), and it just isn't that great. With SR, it is unreliable, too. However, with an offensive set it can hit pretty hard, and with a SubToxic Pressure stalling set it can serve as a great staller on teams dedicated to keeping SR off the field. It has some pretty crippling flaws, including the fact that it's just...not that bulky, but it can fit into C Rank well. Also, yes, it is getting an OU analysis.

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Breloom remains a big offensive threat this generation. Fighting may have lost some value in the generation shift, but the Grass type becoming immune to opponent grass status moves is awesome. Low sweep unfortunately now falls out of Technician range. However Rock Tomb has gained much more viability in terms of coverage with new threats such as Talonflame, M-Pinsir and M-Charizard Y who might be switching in. Between the fear of Rock Tomb's speed drop, and the infamous Spore, there aren't many pokemon who can switch into Breloom safely besides opponent Grass types. Trevenant,
Gourgeist, Sap Sipper Goodra are huge counters. Breloom of course appreciates SR support to chip away to opponent flying types that he fears as well as Volcarona.
Breloom just really lost out in this metagame. It's handled really easily by so, so much. Just look at the Pokemon in S, A+, and A Rank, which we'd consider the top-tier OU Pokemon. It's destroyed by much of S Rank, including the extremely prevalent Aegislash. Pokemon like Megazard Y that resist both of its STABs are common, and though Rock Tomb covers that to an extent, it doesn't really do the whole job. Spore went from an uncounterable sleep move to a move taken easily by Grass-types, especially the very common Mega Venusaur, and Overcoat Pokemon (Mandibuzz and Forretress). Overall, Breloom isn't that good this generation. It has its uses, but not many. It's not that bulky and uncomplicated to wear down/check/counter, and there are a number of top OU threats, such as Mega Lucario, that eclipse it as a powerful physical attacker, too. Above like C+? I can't see that.

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There's one other Pokemon that isn't on this list, but absolutely should be, and that's Kyurem. I always figured it was outclassed by Kyurem-B, basically, and didn't think SubRoost was that good. Damn, how wrong I was. I gave it a spin on the OU ladder, and the results were absolutely astonishing. Kyurem boasts 125/90/90 bulk, which is just awesome, and stellar coverage in Ice Beam and Earth Power. With Substitute and Roost, it can stall extraordinarily well, getting up Substitutes with ease against a good amount of things, including Rotom-W. With Pressure, it can stall out things like Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor with ease. Base 130 Special Attack makes it PLENTY powerful, and base 95 Speed is enough to outrun a decent portion of the metagame. With these traits considered, I think Kyurem deserves B Rank.

I think that covers everything.

EDIT: mmm missing one thing

Mega Medicham for B or B+: I'm astonished to see Mega Medicham in A, truth be told. I've talked to numerous people, and pretty much the consensus among all of them is that it's powerful, but just way too frail. This frailty combined with not that great Speed is so crippling to it that I can't see it as an A Rank threat. Other Pokemon can live with lower Speed, but Mega Medicham doesn't have any of the qualities that make up for it. It's an offensive titan, but the fact that it can't take a hit to save its life is just really bad for it. B+ is pushing it, imo, but others might disagree, so leaving that out there.

EDIT2: And, Thundurus-T is really threatening. It's a nice sweeper, and has a niche over Thundurus in more power and its ability. Like X5Dragon proposed, B Rank imo.
 
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To be completely honest, I feel that ZardX doesn't deserve the S rank, simply because it has a flaw. Perhaps this is more of a player flaw, but from the numerous ZardX's I have seen... They are extremely overconfident or cocky in trying to set up. Against so many things that can pose a threat, ZardX's set up with a DD, take some damage/status, and kill one or two pokemon before being revenge killed by something else. It is a fantastic pokemon, but the problem is that it's speed tier is too low for it reliably get a clean sweep all the time. With all the Talonflames and fast scarvers (the most prominent being Garchomp), it is easily revenge killed, as well as all the priority in this meta. If ZardX gets set up with no damage/status, then yeah, you are fucked. But Rocks are still common and wear it down by half, and ZardX needs a spinner/defoger and still needs that turn to DD. I think that it should stay at A+. With team support, it can be incredibly dangerous, but with the faster pace of matches, it might not be able to set up effectively all the time.

^Simply my thoughts, but if ZardX gets the S rank, then it won't be too much of a surprise. The jump between the two ranks isn't too high imo.
 
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Well Jukain made some great arguments so let's just piggyback of those :P

The best 3 attacks moveset is DD / Dragon Claw / Flare Blitz / Earthquake. With this moveset, you basically spam Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz only when you need to. So no, you don't need to Outrage. Dragon Claw is damn powerful after a boost, 2HKOing stuff like Vaporeon, Jellicent, and Rotom-W with ease. Oh, and Rotom-W: it's the most common Pokemon in OU, and Megazard X sets up all in its face. Genesect? Unless it's CB ESpeed, Megazard X goes to town. Aegislash? Fat chance that can stay in at all. Mega Venusaur? lol. Lucario can't do shit once it's boosted, and can't switch in at all. So right there, 4/5 of S Rank destroyed by it.

A+ Rank. Heatran is destroyed by EQ. Megazard Y loses to +1 DClaw. Non-Scarf Garchomp get stomped. Manaphy has a 62.5% to be OHKOed by Dragon Claw after SR, and can't switch into anything. The aforementioned Rotom-W dies to it. Mega Pinsir loses. Landorus loses. So, like 6.5 (because ScarfChomp is common)/10 Pokemon in A+ Rank are destroyed by it.

Virtually all of A Rank besides Landorus-T, Gliscor, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Azumarill gets murdered. That's like 18.5/23 right there.

There are certainly ways to handle Megazard X in OU -- some of them I mentioned from the ranks I covered -- but the fact remains that Megazard X fulfills the S Rank definition.

I've established that Megazard X can sweep significant portions of the metagame. It also requires little support to do so -- literally all you need to do is wear down Landorus-T and Gliscor throughout the battle, which isn't really that hard, as Megazard X's Dragon Claw/Flare Blitz, even after Intimidate, does a number. Gliscor requires a bit more support to take out, but the point remains. You also need to eliminate Azumarill, and a couple other things, like faster Scarfers. Still, that's not that hard, and requires little dedicated support. It's only a few things that Megazard X has trouble with. Defog support is nice, but not 100% necessary.

It is also versatile. A set with Roost can heal up and thus protect itself revenge killing. It can run Outrage as an insanely powerful Dragon STAB. A bulky set with Will-O-Wisp can serve as a good check to a variety of things that still hits very hard, and can potentially provide Defog support. Plus, it's unpredictable, as the opponent doesn't know whether it is one of those sets, or even Megazard X at all (until it Mega Evolves it's a guessing game as to whether it might be Megazard Y). This unpredictability and versatility only add to how Mega Charizard X is a clear S Rank

For the most part I agree with this, but you have to remember you can only run either eq OR roost, as dd/d claw/ flare blitz are mandatory if you want to sweep. Aegislash can KS, but why the hell would you want to risk another DD? That's just a prediction game there.

To support this argument again, the definition of S rank states that it can fulfill multiple roles to improve versatility, and char-x can do just that. He can wall break with SD and he can burn his main checks, azumarill and ttar, with a tank WoW spread. For people who think DD>SD no matter what, here are some calcs:

(taken straight from the char-x analysis)

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 322-381 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 327-385 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 306-362 (94.4 - 111.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 355-418 (83.7 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 350-414 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 319-376 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 343-405 (87 - 102.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see, its downright terrifying.
(just wanted to capitalize on yet another role char-x can fulfill, making it even more versatile)

Mega Absol for B-: In all my experiences fighting Mega Absol, it's really never been that difficult to deal with. Magic Bounce is a nice ability, but Mega Absol has trouble against many hazard users. It isn't too complicated to check either, and has an unfortunate inability to run Knock Off + Play Rough, its best coverage move. Access to Fire Blast and Ice Beam is nice, and there's no denying that Mega Absol is a veritable offensive threat with an SD boost, but it's just not all that threatening.

It also dies to practically any neutral hit not named seismic toss. If you mispredict, there is absolutely zero bulk to cushion that.

Sylveon for B+: I'm really surprised to see Sylveon down in B Rank, below Clefable no less. Sylveon's special walling capabilities are just excellent. It serves as a great Dragon- and Fighting-type check, destroys Aegislash without a Steel-type move, walls Deoxys-S with ease, handles Thundurus and Landorus good, counters Greninja...Sylveon boasts excellent walling capabilities. Walling isn't all Sylveon is good for though -- I wouldn't be nominating it for B+ if this was so. It also boasts insane utility. Wish is a great move, supporting teammates, and with Protect gives Sylveon reliable recovery. Protect lets Sylveon scout and stall weather turns, and overall eases prediction hugely. Against a Genesect and want to check if it's gonna U-turn or Iron Head? Protect. That's just one example. It also provides invaluable cleric support -- there aren't that many clerics in this metagame either. Not only this, but Sylveon has decent power, even with a bulky set, given Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice, and can boost to handle special threats even better, hit harder, and sweep late-game with its checks and counters removed. This is not even taking into consideration the excellent Choice Specs set, which hits hard with Hyper Voice, has Psyshock to murder Mega Venusaur, and can utilize a powerful Pixilate-boosted Echoed Voice given the opportunity. There's also a Choice Scarf set, which can revenge kill decently and take advantage of Echoed Voice, too. All in all, Sylveon is bursting with qualities that make it worth B+.

He's also a cleric that can hit past subs and isn't completely a sitting duck, an unboosted hyper voice can actually do some damage. It's also worth noting that a defensive sylveon is the ONLY true counter to anything kyurem-b can viably do. He can also reliably come in on AV conkeldurr, which is a pain to deal with if you don't have the proper answers, and it really doesn't care too much about the loss of leftovers. He supports a team very well by passing wishes, healing status, and not being total set-up fodder. Definitely seconding sylveon to B+

EDIT: mmm missing one thing

Mega Medicham for B or B+: I'm astonished to see Mega Medicham in A, truth be told. I've talked to numerous people, and pretty much the consensus among all of them is that it's powerful, but just way too frail. This frailty combined with not that great Speed is so crippling to it that I can't see it as an A Rank threat. Other Pokemon can live with lower Speed, but Mega Medicham doesn't have any of the qualities that make up for it. It's an offensive titan, but the fact that it can't take a hit to save its life is just really bad for it. B+ is pushing it, imo, but others might disagree, so leaving that out there.

Also agree with this. He can run sub+drain punch to somewhat mitigate this, and that's honestly what I prefer because I think his priority is too weak, but you can't get around the fact that he's super frail. He has only a 100 base speed, and that makes it all the easier to revenge kill. Nukes should either be frail and fast or slow and bulky, and quite frankly, he's neither. He's really strong, but he needs a lot of support to capitalize on this. Solid B for mega medicham
 
Can someone explain exactly why is galvantula a B-? It literally only has one thing going for it, sticky web, and that very thing just inst that good. Most teams out there consist of pokemons that are either immune or just dont care about it. Just look at most of the top threats: talonflame, scizor, gyarados, charizard, excadrill (uses air baloon almost every time, sand rush can still outspeed stuff even with web), thundurus, landorus, landorus-t, dragonite, tyranitar, mawile, bisharp (!), latios, latias, aegislash and literally every single wall and tank out there. The only use i see for sticky web is to slow down the omnipresent greninja and scarf genesect, both of which are very annoying to deal with, but other than this it just feels useless in almost every match (specially if youre facing stall lol) and you can deal with those threats without web. If galvantula was at least a good pokemon i could let it pass, but its not. Weak, frail, easily walled and revenged, poop typing. Hell, you cant even count on it to replace the web late game if it gets defogged. I say C is more fitting for its ''qualities''.
 
I don't think Mega Pinsir makes it to S due to sheer, absolute predictability, and the Rocks issue.
Similar issue with Charizard X. If Charizard makes it, it'll make it because it has two different Megas, not one or the other.
 
Can someone explain exactly why is galvantula a B-? It literally only has one thing going for it, sticky web, and that very thing just inst that good. Most teams out there consist of pokemons that are either immune or just dont care about it. Just look at most of the top threats: talonflame, scizor, gyarados, charizard, excadrill (uses air baloon almost every time, sand rush can still outspeed stuff even with web), thundurus, landorus, landorus-t, dragonite, tyranitar, mawile, bisharp (!), latios, latias, aegislash and literally every single wall and tank out there. The only use i see for sticky web is to slow down the omnipresent greninja and scarf genesect, both of which are very annoying to deal with, but other than this it just feels useless in almost every match (specially if youre facing stall lol) and you can deal with those threats without web. If galvantula was at least a good pokemon i could let it pass, but its not. Weak, frail, easily walled and revenged, poop typing. Hell, you cant even count on it to replace the web late game if it gets defogged. I say C is more fitting for its ''qualities''.

It properly fulfills its niche as a Sticky Web setter, and that's all there really is to it. Yeah, a lot of Pokemon don't particularly care, but a bunch of others do. Lucario, Genesect, Terrakion, Greninja, Autotomize Aegishash, Charizard X (switching in after Mega-Evolving,) Garchomp and Pinsir (before Mega-Evolving,) are a few things that are heavily affected by Sticky Web. I think that it's notable that people build teams that don't care about Sticky Web more often (sometimes to ensure it isn't an issue.) Galvantula has a hard time coming back in to set it up again if it gets removed, but it's not impossible by any means.

I think that part of the problem is that less skilled players use Galvantula like a Gen 4 Suicide lead, which, you know, sucks. They also tend to use it regardless of whether it makes sense to (you know how many times I've seen someone set up Sticky Web against my team when they already outspeed the entire group anyway?) Galvantula isn't dead weight if your opponents aren't heavily affected by it, either. It's not terribly strong but it can still dent things, especially with a boosting item (I don't really agree with his analysis only recommending Focus Sash, since that basically guarantees he'll be useless should any passive damage break it, and he kind of desperately needs a boost.)

C-rank doesn't really seem appropriate since no other Pokemon can do it's job, even if it's job is, in itself, limited.
 
It properly fulfills its niche as a Sticky Web setter, and that's all there really is to it. Yeah, a lot of Pokemon don't particularly care, but a bunch of others do. Lucario, Genesect, Terrakion, Greninja, Autotomize Aegishash, Charizard X (switching in after Mega-Evolving,) Garchomp and Pinsir (before Mega-Evolving,) are a few things that are heavily affected by Sticky Web. I think that it's notable that people build teams that don't care about Sticky Web more often (sometimes to ensure it isn't an issue.) Galvantula has a hard time coming back in to set it up again if it gets removed, but it's not impossible by any means.

I think that part of the problem is that less skilled players use Galvantula like a Gen 4 Suicide lead, which, you know, sucks. They also tend to use it regardless of whether it makes sense to (you know how many times I've seen someone set up Sticky Web against my team when they already outspeed the entire group anyway?) Galvantula isn't dead weight if your opponents aren't heavily affected by it, either. It's not terribly strong but it can still dent things, especially with a boosting item (I don't really agree with his analysis only recommending Focus Sash, since that basically guarantees he'll be useless should any passive damage break it, and he kind of desperately needs a boost.)

C-rank doesn't really seem appropriate since no other Pokemon can do it's job, even if it's job is, in itself, limited.
The issue is not that there isnt anything that care about sticky web. The issue is that most things dont, so you''ll generally only be affecting one or two pokemon per match and even then, thats not guaranted to be important. Pinsir for example, is already outsped by so many things, he uses quick attack to deal with them so the web isnt really mattering, garchomp is almost always used as a wallbreaker, so again, it doesnt make much diffence for it. Its not like galvantula is a decent mon that just happens to have sticky web, its a mediocre mon whose only niche is setuping the most inconsistent hazard in the game. The last line is very fallacious, it doenst matter how unique its job is, the point is whether or not that job is worth it, and frankly the majority of the time its not.
 
The issue is not that there isnt anything that care about sticky web. The issue is that most things dont, so you''ll generally only be affecting one or two pokemon per match and even then, thats not guaranted to be important. Pinsir for example, is already outsped by so many things, he uses quick attack to deal with them so the web isnt really mattering, garchomp is almost always used as a wallbreaker, so again, it doesnt make much diffence for it. Its not like galvantula is a decent mon that just happens to have sticky web, its a mediocre mon whose only niche is setuping the most inconsistent hazard in the game. The last line is very fallacious, it doenst matter how unique its job is, the point is whether or not that job is worth it, and frankly the majority of the time its not.

Again a lot of things don't care, but there are still a lot that do care, even if it's situational. You obviously can't slap Galvantula onto any team and expect it to pull its weight, but it will when it's on a team that cares about outspeeding certain threats. Even Pokemon that have priority, like Pinsir, may be affected. It could mean the difference between eating an Aerilate Return or OHKOing if they don't go for the Quick Attack. His 105 base Speed isn't the best, but it's in a pretty densely-populated Speed tier. As for Garchomp, it's not like the non-wallbreaking variants aren't a thing. You'll still see non-Mega Swords dance Garchomp and ScarfChomp from time to time.

How does the uniqueness of its job not impact its placement? It's incredibly important that no other Pokemon fulfills its niche. If another Pokemon was better at setting up Sticky Web then by all means I'd say Galvantula doesn't deserve B-tier. A lot of Pokemon in C-rank and below belong there because they're outclassed by Pokemon in higher ranks. Think Noivern, who works as a fast, special-attacking Dragon, but it isn't worth it when Lati@s exists. Hell, what other Pokemon even compete for that niche? Obviously the Lati twins are better at their jobs than Galvantula is at his, but it's still an adequate comparison for the point I'm trying to make.

You and I could go back and forth with different Pokemon that are and aren't heavily affected by Sticky Web, but it wouldn't get us anywhere. Galvantula is obviously mediocre at best without the hazard. The question, like you said, is currently whether or not that job is worth it. I'd argue that it absolutely is worth it, just not against every team or every opposing Pokemon. It's worth it against enough of them to warrant the niche though.
 
I'm going to take this thread in a slightly different direction and make some nominations for several pokemon I've utilized that are currently not rated on the front.

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Rotom-H for B+ - Rotom-H is one highly unique pokemon that has many things going for it that put it in competition with Rotom-W that can make it a viable alternative. Defensively, Rotom-H actually beats Rotom-W for number of resistances, trading a weakness to Grass for a weakness to Water and Rock while resisting Bug, Fairy, Electric and Grass on top of it. Rotom-H resists every one of Genesect's common attacks by itself which is impressive and threatens with Overheat. Also unlike Wash, Heat's Fire typing means it has an immunity to Burn on top of Paralysis. Combined with Ferrothorn that's an immunity to all the common status types if not counting Hypnosis. Fire/Electric STABs are amazing for coverage with good power. It's downsides are that because of Rotom-W itself and Stealth Rock it doesn't get as many switch in opportunities as it could. Still, choice sets are particularly dangerous with Volt Turn, Overheat and Trick at the least, either causing major damage or gimping something particularly hard. For its unique niche and only requiring nominal team support at best I think B+ is a very fair grade.

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Tornadus-T for B- - Tornadus-T's greatest assets are a phenomenal speed tier and the ability Regenerator, making it an amazing U-Turn user. Add in Knock Off and you have the quintessential scout. Flying is one of the best new offensive typings this gen, and being one of the few specially based ones provides Tornadtus-T a further niche still with powerful STAB Hurricane. Pair with Life Orb or Assault Vest and you have a great team mate. Unfortunately, most of his most powerful moves have poor accuracy like Hurricane, Focus Blast and Heat Wave. You can all too often find yourself on the receiving end of poor luck. Also even with Regenerator, weakness to stealth rock and only mediocre 79/80/90 defenses that you will be unlikely to invest in means you can often find Tornadus biting it early if not played safely or if you're simply really unlucky. Its pure Flying typing is also a mixed bag. Ground immunity and Fighting resist are always nice, as is resistance to U-Turn, but Rock, Electric and Ice weaknesses really impede him. His reliance on risky offensive moves for damage and no appropriate boosting move means B- feels appropriate.

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Hitmontop for C - Hitmontop is a unique rapid spin user, one of the few with particularly good special defense. It has a unique niche in that it is a deceptively bulky spinner who, on top of resisting Stealth Rock itself, has access to Intimidate and Assault Vest. The combination makes it a relatively safe switch into most things with his lack of weaknesses, unlike Excadrill for example. Hitmontop also mitigates his mediocre speed with several priority moves including Mach Punch, Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch, with the option of Technician to boost two of them. These attacks can allow Hitmontop the liberty of investing more into HP and Attack or Defenses to be a well rounded threat. The downside is that while he has Sucker Punch, it can't hit Ghosts on the switch, nor can Pursuit. However, Pursuit with Technician makes it an interesting trap for Ghosts since its powered up by itself, and powered up even more if they switch out. Technician boosted Thief otherwise is his best option for Ghosts. Access to Close Combat, High Jump Kick, Earth Quake, Stone Edge and Body Slam give it a good mix of utility. All of his tools though are still compensating for a lack of impressive stats, and its a tough case to make for Hitmontop over certain other spinners with more reliable speed. His compensatory niche makes C ranking appropriate.

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Chesnaught for B- - Chesnaught is a unique physical support pokemon. Unlike Breloom, Chesnaught can take a hit and is a phenomenal switch into any EdgeQuake user. Access to Spikes and Leech Seed with its unique move Spikey Shield can ease switch ins and provide some unique stalling. The ability Bulletproof make him surprisingly Gengar proof and can catch many people off guard. Finally he can hit plenty of things hard with his own EdgeQuake or Seed Bomb/Hammer Arm/Wood Hammer. He's also a unique check to Mega Venusaur who resists Giga Drain and is immune to Leech Seed, Sleep Powder AND Sludge Bomb, while also resisting Earthquake and Knock Off. That being said his speed and 4x Flying weakness and regular Fire weakness are a huge detriment. Also because you tend to invest defensively, don't be surprised if you have trouble 2HKOing things. His unique niche but serious weaknesses relegate him to B-.

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Roserade for B-
- Roserade is one of the few offensively threatening Grass types that is also a good support pokemon. 125 SpA hits hard and with Technician you get a 90 BP Hidden Power attack of your choosing, meaning Roserade can essentially handle many would be threats to your team with a Scarf for example, with the advent of unpredictability. Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain/Leaf Storm hit what they need to hard and Dazzling Gleam makes it a good response to certain Dragons and Fighting types that other Grass types can't boast. Extrasensory and her great SpD makes her Venusaur's natural enemy. With Natural Cure and an extensive support movepool Roserade can fulfill several roles at once that your team may need. Unfortunately its physical defenses are poor and unlike Venusaur, isn't neutral to Fire and Ice. Its also in an awkward speed tier at 90, meaning without a scarf it can't handle numerous faster threats. B-

I'll take a break for now.
 
Mega Alakazam is in a weird position where it don't really have many advantages compared to its non Mega Form

Trace is inconsistent, and inconsistent is banned if you know what I mean. Jokes aside, it allows Zam to steal adaptability(stealing Adaptability from Special Mega Luca can be hilarious), Intimidate, Protean, Compoundeyes(I like Focus Blast that did not miss) or Natural Cure, but there is also times when you stole abilities that might as well do nothing

Stats wise, its only advantage is outspeeding Greninja. It can't think of a pokemon above Alakazam Speed that is relevant aside from it, Jolteon, and Aerodactyl

"But Alakazam have massive 175 SPA!"

Yeah so? Vanilla Alakazam have mind blowing 190 SPA with Life Orb with no downside aside from Knock Off, and Knock Off hits pretty much killed it anyway

This is before we consider its 80 BP Moves. This make a lot of difference. For example, Kingdra with Hydro Pump almost hit harder, and thats a pokemon with nearly half of Mega Alakazam SPA

I think C Rank fits Mega Alakazam

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

- The right support would be to provide Mega Zam the chance to get a switch to pokemon with proper ability. This is not consistent because you need to rely on your opponent's team composition, and also play the game properly much like Ditto

- Alakazam outclassed Mega Alakazam. Megazam have Trace shenanigans, outspeeding Greninja, and trick immunity. Alakazam have Magic Guard which means it did not give a shit to Hazzard damage all game unlike Mega!Zam post evo. It can also be a one use Revenge killer with Focus Sash, and get 190 SPA with Life Orb with no LO downside

Pretty ironic if you ask me

Just a heads up, Modest Mega Alakazam hits harder than LO Timid Alakazam, and is also faster anyway, so I'd say C+ at least.
 
The best 3 attacks moveset is DD / Dragon Claw / Flare Blitz / Earthquake. With this moveset, you basically spam Dragon Claw and Flare Blitz only when you need to. So no, you don't need to Outrage. Dragon Claw is damn powerful after a boost, 2HKOing stuff like Vaporeon, Jellicent, and Rotom-W with ease. Oh, and Rotom-W: it's the most common Pokemon in OU, and Megazard X sets up all in its face. Genesect? Unless it's CB ESpeed, Megazard X goes to town. Aegislash? Fat chance that can stay in at all. Mega Venusaur? lol. Lucario can't do shit once it's boosted, and can't switch in at all. So right there, 4/5 of S Rank destroyed by it.

A+ Rank. Heatran is destroyed by EQ. Megazard Y loses to +1 DClaw. Non-Scarf Garchomp get stomped. Manaphy has a 62.5% to be OHKOed by Dragon Claw after SR, and can't switch into anything. The aforementioned Rotom-W dies to it. Mega Pinsir loses. Landorus loses. So, like 6.5 (because ScarfChomp is common)/10 Pokemon in A+ Rank are destroyed by it.

Virtually all of A Rank besides Landorus-T, Gliscor, Choice Scarf Terrakion, and Azumarill gets murdered. That's like 18.5/23 right there.

There are certainly ways to handle Megazard X in OU -- some of them I mentioned from the ranks I covered -- but the fact remains that Megazard X fulfills the S Rank definition.

I've established that Megazard X can sweep significant portions of the metagame. It also requires little support to do so -- literally all you need to do is wear down Landorus-T and Gliscor throughout the battle, which isn't really that hard, as Megazard X's Dragon Claw/Flare Blitz, even after Intimidate, does a number. Gliscor requires a bit more support to take out, but the point remains. You also need to eliminate Azumarill, and a couple other things, like faster Scarfers. Still, that's not that hard, and requires little dedicated support. It's only a few things that Megazard X has trouble with. Defog support is nice, but not 100% necessary.

It is also versatile. A set with Roost can heal up and thus protect itself revenge killing. It can run Outrage as an insanely powerful Dragon STAB. A bulky set with Will-O-Wisp can serve as a good check to a variety of things that still hits very hard, and can potentially provide Defog support. Plus, it's unpredictable, as the opponent doesn't know whether it is one of those sets, or even Megazard X at all (until it Mega Evolves it's a guessing game as to whether it might be Megazard Y). This unpredictability and versatility only add to how Mega Charizard X is a clear S Rank.

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I want now to address the Mega Pinsir discussion: it deserves S Rank. A lot of people have covered it nicely. I'll just quote a few posts here:



These points sum up the argument excellently. Mega Pinsir sweeps through so much of the metagame and is just overall a major force to be reckoned with. Sure, there are offensive checks, and sure, it's 4x to weak to SR (though not on the first switch-in before it Mega Evolves, so SR really isn't that a big of a deal), but it's a sweeper with extremely powerful attacks, STAB ~53 BP priority move, and the potential to eliminate a portion of blocks to it depending on whether it runs CC, EQ, or Stone Edge in the last slot, make it a true top-tier OU sweeper and one of the most devastating threats around -- a true S Rank.

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The issue with Lucario is just...it's too slow, and Extreme Speed makes up for that to an extent, but not fully. It's a difficult Pokemon to work with, and requires a pretty significant amount of support. It's really not that difficult to deal with, as the metagame packs a good number of checks and counters to it...including basically anything faster that can live a +2 Extreme Speed, which is a significant portion of threats, and Talonflame. This is not to say that Lucario isn't good -- it just isn't B Rank material. B- suits it well. If you want to argue about moving Infernape down, then that's another story, but don't use Infernape's placement as a judgment for Lucario.

I'm honestly surprised to see Diggersby so low. Dice covers it pretty well:

Diggersby is a powerful sweeper with priority, and is really, really dangerous. It also has versatility in that it can run an effective Choice Scarf revenge killing set with the invaluable U-turn, and a deadly Choice Band set that boasts immense immediate power. Diggersby is really strong, and B would make a good place for it.

The suggestion for Ferrothorn seems on target, too.

Agreeing with sidakarya on Zapdos. It's a really good Pokemon in the metagame, serving as a great way to handle a number of things, including special Mega Lucario, a threat that's almost impossible to counter otherwise.

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B Rank looks rather crowded, and I think a few things can be sorted out:

Mega Absol for B-: In all my experiences fighting Mega Absol, it's really never been that difficult to deal with. Magic Bounce is a nice ability, but Mega Absol has trouble against many hazard users. It isn't too complicated to check either, and has an unfortunate inability to run Knock Off + Play Rough, its best coverage move. Access to Fire Blast and Ice Beam is nice, and there's no denying that Mega Absol is a veritable offensive threat with an SD boost, but it's just not all that threatening.

Agreeing with previous posts on Espeon for C+. There's not a whole lot else to say here.

Entei for B-: I just really don't see Entei as B Rank-level threat. Sacred Fire is indeed an awesome move, and priority Extreme Speed is excellent, but Entei just really isn't that complicated to check. Your bulky Ground-type (Landorus-T/Gliscor), your bulky Water-type (Vaporeon/Slowbro/Rotom-W), both Megazards, Talonflame, Manaphy, etc. are so detrimental to it. Although, they don't all appreciate a Sacred Fire burn, they can still switch in, and Entei isn't that great at breaking them. All in all, while the buff in Sacred Fire and reliability/burns it gives are great, it isn't enough to put Entei all the way up in B.

Sylveon for B+: I'm really surprised to see Sylveon down in B Rank, below Clefable no less. Sylveon's special walling capabilities are just excellent. It serves as a great Dragon- and Fighting-type check, destroys Aegislash without a Steel-type move, walls Deoxys-S with ease, handles Thundurus and Landorus good, counters Greninja...Sylveon boasts excellent walling capabilities. Walling isn't all Sylveon is good for though -- I wouldn't be nominating it for B+ if this was so. It also boasts insane utility. Wish is a great move, supporting teammates, and with Protect gives Sylveon reliable recovery. Protect lets Sylveon scout and stall weather turns, and overall eases prediction hugely. Against a Genesect and want to check if it's gonna U-turn or Iron Head? Protect. That's just one example. It also provides invaluable cleric support -- there aren't that many clerics in this metagame either. Not only this, but Sylveon has decent power, even with a bulky set, given Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voice, and can boost to handle special threats even better, hit harder, and sweep late-game with its checks and counters removed. This is not even taking into consideration the excellent Choice Specs set, which hits hard with Hyper Voice, has Psyshock to murder Mega Venusaur, and can utilize a powerful Pixilate-boosted Echoed Voice given the opportunity. There's also a Choice Scarf set, which can revenge kill decently and take advantage of Echoed Voice, too. All in all, Sylveon is bursting with qualities that make it worth B+.

Jellicent for B-: Jellicent really took a hit in XY. It just can't...wall that much anymore, and its placement in B Rank surprises me. Handling Mega Lucario is indeed an excellent trait, but it loses to so many top threats. Setup fodder for Megazard X, loses to Megazard Y's Solar Beam, crushed by Landorus-I, murdered by Thundurus-I, eliminated by Manaphy's Energy Ball...there's just so much it can't do in OU; B- fits it. Honestly, I could see it in C+. B- is almost being too generous, but that's what I'll nominate it for, as it does have some perks.

Krookodile for B-: I love Krookodile, and have used it with nice results, but B Rank is just too generous to to it. Krookodile boasts STAB Knock Off and Earthquake, as well as access to Stealth Rock and Taunt with Intimidate, allowing it to function as an effective defensive check to various things, and can even run a deadly offensive set with Moxie. However, it's weak to Fairy, Fighting, and Water -- three common types -- and is boned by Mega Venusaur. It can handle a solid amount of things, but it isn't too complicated to wear down, lacking recovery out of Leftovers. Although it is difficult to wear down and effective if you know how to use it, I plainly don't see Krookodile as a B Rank threat. It also faces competitionB- fits it much better.

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Ctrl + F Vaporeon, nothing found. I've used Vaporeon extensively, and it has a solid niche in the OU tier. Boasting sizable defenses, Vaporeon can take hits from a good chunk of things well, including but not limited to everything from Genesect but Thunderbolt, Aegislash, Deoxys-S, Heatran, Talonflame, Gengar, Keldeo, Azumarill, Mega Mawile, bulky Landorus-T, and more. It too, like Sylveon, is bursting with utility. It can spread burn with Scald, cripple bulky Pokemon like Rotom-W with Toxic, provide cleric support, and even phaze, depending on what you choose for the last moveslot. It can also provide Wish support and scout/stall weather turns/get reliable recovery with Protect. Unfortunately, its physical bulk isn't /amazing/, in addition to some other flaws. It fits the definition of B Rank excellently imo.

Vaporeon fulfills a good defensive niche, able to handle a solid array of threats in the OU metagame. It has some flaws, and is setup bait for certain sweepers without Roar (few physical ones appreciate a Scald burn, though). Overall, B fits it well based on this definition. B or B- for Vaporeon.

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On Moltres: C is the best fit for it, I think. I played with it for a good, maybe, 15 battles (the defensive set), and it just isn't that great. With SR, it is unreliable, too. However, with an offensive set it can hit pretty hard, and with a SubToxic Pressure stalling set it can serve as a great staller on teams dedicated to keeping SR off the field. It has some pretty crippling flaws, including the fact that it's just...not that bulky, but it can fit into C Rank well. Also, yes, it is getting an OU analysis.

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Breloom just really lost out in this metagame. It's handled really easily by so, so much. Just look at the Pokemon in S, A+, and A Rank, which we'd consider the top-tier OU Pokemon. It's destroyed by much of S Rank, including the extremely prevalent Aegislash. Pokemon like Megazard Y that resist both of its STABs are common, and though Rock Tomb covers that to an extent, it doesn't really do the whole job. Spore went from an uncounterable sleep move to a move taken easily by Grass-types, especially the very common Mega Venusaur, and Overcoat Pokemon (Mandibuzz and Forretress). Overall, Breloom isn't that good this generation. It has its uses, but not many. It's not that bulky and uncomplicated to wear down/check/counter, and there are a number of top OU threats, such as Mega Lucario, that eclipse it as a powerful physical attacker, too. Above like C+? I can't see that.

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There's one other Pokemon that isn't on this list, but absolutely should be, and that's Kyurem. I always figured it was outclassed by Kyurem-B, basically, and didn't think SubRoost was that good. Damn, how wrong I was. I gave it a spin on the OU ladder, and the results were absolutely astonishing. Kyurem boasts 125/90/90 bulk, which is just awesome, and stellar coverage in Ice Beam and Earth Power. With Substitute and Roost, it can stall extraordinarily well, getting up Substitutes with ease against a good amount of things, including Rotom-W. With Pressure, it can stall out things like Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, and Draco Meteor with ease. Base 130 Special Attack makes it PLENTY powerful, and base 95 Speed is enough to outrun a decent portion of the metagame. With these traits considered, I think Kyurem deserves B Rank.

I think that covers everything.

EDIT: mmm missing one thing

Mega Medicham for B or B+: I'm astonished to see Mega Medicham in A, truth be told. I've talked to numerous people, and pretty much the consensus among all of them is that it's powerful, but just way too frail. This frailty combined with not that great Speed is so crippling to it that I can't see it as an A Rank threat. Other Pokemon can live with lower Speed, but Mega Medicham doesn't have any of the qualities that make up for it. It's an offensive titan, but the fact that it can't take a hit to save its life is just really bad for it. B+ is pushing it, imo, but others might disagree, so leaving that out there.

EDIT2: And, Thundurus-T is really threatening. It's a nice sweeper, and has a niche over Thundurus in more power and its ability. Like X5Dragon proposed, B Rank imo.

Mega Medicha: Agreeing on B+, it dies to priority especially from the common Talonflame and Aegislash
Kyurem: I think B- rank is more fitting, as it's bulk isn't THAT amazing, but it's good.

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 256-303 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 620-732 (153.4 - 181.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 452-536 (111.8 - 132.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Focus Blast vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 332-392 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

But ofc I don't know what EV spread you are running, but the standard set is wrecked by everything.

Breloom: Agreeing on C+, no Technician Low sweep is terrible for this guy, even though it got Rock Tomb, it still isn't good as gen V, especially with Fairy, Aegislash, Pumbakboo, and Talonflame.

Moltres: Agreeing on C, only because it's not D really, but it's also not higher than C Imo.

Vaporeon: B- is more fitting, it as lost a lot thnx to rain nerf.

Jellicent: Agreeing on B-, even though it got Dazzling gleam, it's really not that much of an improvement.

Krookodile: B- only because it lacks recovery, otherwise it's perfect B IMO.

Sylveon: The only reason it's rated below Clefable is because Clefable is more versatile, has Magic Gaurd and Unaware, can be annoying as hell with the Stored Power, and does the job of CM sweep much better, Clefable can run LO Magic Guard and this gen has very decent SpA, Sylveon only has the Specs Echoed Voice Set, and more SpD/SpA, but Clefable has more Defense, AMAZING coverage (Unlike Sylveon), and either 1) doesn't care about opponent's +6 SpD or 2) is immune to residual damage from Poison, Burn, Hazards, and Leech Seed: very common stuff in OU. tl;dr: Sylveon is good in B IMO.\

Entie: The reason it's B is because it hits hard with CB, burns, and has ES, OR is really bulky with AV, burns, and has ES. Not to mention Stone Edge coverage. The standard set is Flare Blitz + Sacred fire. Also:

252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 540-636 (181.2 - 213.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 584-688 (195.9 - 230.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 302-356 (101.3 - 119.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gliscor can't switch in on Entei because if it was burnt by Sacred Fire, it is utterly crippled.

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 216-255 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Landorus-T is not a safe switch in, again if it switches on Sacred Fire, it is burnt thus not OHKO-ing with EQ, and Entei wins b/c it's faster

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 155-183 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Rotom-W is not a safe switch-in, unless you mean Physically defensive Rotom-W, which is really not that common.

Vaporeon & Slowbro are a safe switch-in though.

tl;dr: Entei is good where it's at.

Mega Absol: I don't agree, I think it's fine where it is, Knock Off + Play Rough is AMAZING combo, it has enough speed to sacrifice Sucker Punch, It can run special or mixed, Fire Blast is amazing, and so is Ice Beam, Magic Bounce is amazing as ever, no Leech Seed, no Toxic, no Burn no really any of the annoying stuff. I think Mega Absol is really fine where it is.

Yup Agreeing on Diggersby.

Here comes the list:
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    A+ -->
    S Rank
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    A+ -->S Rank
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    B+ -->A Rank
  • 448.png
    B- Rank
  • 342.png
    C+ Rank
And one more nomination to round off the day [:
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#actuallyaman

Nominating Gothitelle for B Rank

Gothitelle has one and only one function in OU - Shadow Trapping.
While it took a slight nerf in its ability to trap Ghost Type Pokemon, Gothitelle still stands as an amazing offensive trapper, making life easier for various sweepers such as Mega Lucario, Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X, etc.
Gothitelle can "can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche" , a requirement for any B Rank nominee.
Honestly, it's ability alone is what merits OU viability and placement within the B Rank. The amount of utility and support it brings to the table is worthy of recognition.
Gothitelle does possess a solid base 95 Special Attack stat that can hurt when combined with Choice Specs + great coverage. It also has an above average base 110 Special Defense which is pretty useful for 2HKOing certain Pokemon, should such a situation ever arise.

Overall, Gothitelle fits right in with the B Rank class

Kyurem-B: A -----> A+
Celebi: unranked -----> B
Moltres: unranked -----> C

You forgot the above.
 
Again a lot of things don't care, but there are still a lot that do care, even if it's situational. You obviously can't slap Galvantula onto any team and expect it to pull its weight, but it will when it's on a team that cares about outspeeding certain threats. Even Pokemon that have priority, like Pinsir, may be affected. It could mean the difference between eating an Aerilate Return or OHKOing if they don't go for the Quick Attack. His 105 base Speed isn't the best, but it's in a pretty densely-populated Speed tier. As for Garchomp, it's not like the non-wallbreaking variants aren't a thing. You'll still see non-Mega Swords dance Garchomp and ScarfChomp from time to time.

How does the uniqueness of its job not impact its placement? It's incredibly important that no other Pokemon fulfills its niche. If another Pokemon was better at setting up Sticky Web then by all means I'd say Galvantula doesn't deserve B-tier. A lot of Pokemon in C-rank and below belong there because they're outclassed by Pokemon in higher ranks. Think Noivern, who works as a fast, special-attacking Dragon, but it isn't worth it when Lati@s exists. Hell, what other Pokemon even compete for that niche? Obviously the Lati twins are better at their jobs than Galvantula is at his, but it's still an adequate comparison for the point I'm trying to make.

You and I could go back and forth with different Pokemon that are and aren't heavily affected by Sticky Web, but it wouldn't get us anywhere. Galvantula is obviously mediocre at best without the hazard. The question, like you said, is currently whether or not that job is worth it. I'd argue that it absolutely is worth it, just not against every team or every opposing Pokemon. It's worth it against enough of them to warrant the niche though.

Your argument would actually put it in D-rank: one niche in OU but no other use. You have to build a whole team around Sticky Web and half the time it's moot anyway because the opposing team just doesn't care about it.
 
Since I don't see it ranked, I'd like to bring up aerodactyl

Let's see. His days as a lead are over, he got a new mega with almost no moves to abuse the ability, and he is still weak to rocks and can't succeed too well due to the prevalence of rotom-w. Not to mention SR is easier than ever to remove.

But let's further discuss his mega. For reference his stats are: 80/135/85/70/95/150. Immediately you see that blazing 150 base speed, outpacing practically everything without a scarf, save mega alakazam and deo-s. He can set up rocks and keep them up with a blazing fast taunt, alongside roost to keep him fairly healthy, and 135 base attack along with a diverse physical movepool including stone edge, earthquake, all the elemental fangs and crunch, he isn't a sitting duck.

But that's where it ends

His sub-par defenses don't really help him, you still need to invest a good chunk in speed to outpace what you need to, and the only decent boosting move you have access to is hone claws. Hone Claws. That's possibly the worst boosting move for a sweeper to even use. Mega aerodactyl is thus strictly limited to utility, and while it does that well, excadrill can remove hazards, set up rocks, actually set up (gasp) with a much more reliable move, and have a (gasp) reliable stab with more than 80 accuracy and more than 85 base power. A simple set of taunt/roost/stone edge/filler is probably what's gonna be most common, though you might favor rocks more in there somewhere. Simply put, he is very easy to wall and cockblocked by the common rotom-w, he doesn't have a good boosting move, he does not have a great typing, he can't properly use his great ability, and his utility is the only thing really going for him. (Mega) Aerodactyl for B-

fine where it is, Knock Off + Play Rough is AMAZING combo, it has enough speed to sacrifice Sucker Punch, It can run special or mixed, Fire Blast is amazing, and so is Ice Beam, Magic Bounce is amazing as ever, no Leech Seed, no Toxic, no Burn no really any of the annoying stuff. I think Mega Absol is really fine where it is.

Knock Off+Play Rough is illegal on mega absol unfortunately, so you're limited to sucker punch.
 
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Since I don't see it ranked, I'd like to bring up aerodactyl

Let's see. His days as a lead are over, he got a new mega with almost no moves to abuse the ability, and he is still weak to rocks and can't succeed too well due to the prevalence of rotom-w. Not to mention SR is easier than ever to remove.

But let's further discuss his mega. For reference his stats are: 80/135/85/70/95/150. Immediately you see that blazing 150 base speed, outpacing practically everything without a scarf, save mega alakazam and deo-s. He can set up rocks and keep them up with a blazing fast taunt, alongside roost to keep him fairly healthy, and 135 base attack along with a diverse physical movepool including stone edge, earthquake, all the elemental fangs and crunch, he isn't a sitting duck.

But that's where it ends

His sub-par defenses don't really help him, you still need to invest a good chunk in speed to outpace what you need to, and the only decent boosting move you have access to is hone claws. Hone Claws. That's possibly the worst boosting move for a sweeper to even use. Mega aerodactyl is thus strictly limited to utility, and while it does that well, excadrill can remove hazards, set up rocks, actually set up (gasp) with a much more reliable move, and have a (gasp) reliable stab with more than 80 accuracy and more than 85 base power. A simple set of taunt/roost/stone edge/filler is probably what's gonna be most common, though you might favor rocks more in there somewhere. Simply put, he is very easy to wall and cockblocked by the common rotom-w, he doesn't have a good boosting move, he does not have a great typing, he can't properly use his great ability, and his utility is the only thing really going for him. (Mega) Aerodactyl for B-



Knock Off+Play Rough is illegal on mega absol unfortunately, so you're limited to sucker punch.
For exactly the reasons you just mentioned, Mega Aerodactyl is almost certainly better off in C or C-. The utility set you mentioned is almost completely outclassed by Deoxys-S who has:
-more speed
-Stealth rock AND Spikes
-Faster taunt
-Recover (if you really think recovery is helpful on such an obviously suicidal set)
-An even diverser offensive movepool (diverser is totally a word no matter what spell check says) containing ice beam, thunderbolt, superpower, fire punch, psycho boost, and probably a ton of other things I'm forgetting.
-Can use a focus sash
-Also doesn't take up a mega slot

As you mentioned, his offensive options are also kind of terrible. So yeah, outclassed and not that good to start with > C.
 
Your argument would actually put it in D-rank: one niche in OU but no other use. You have to build a whole team around Sticky Web and half the time it's moot anyway because the opposing team just doesn't care about it.

That's not really how D-rank works.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

The arguments I have against your judgement this are as follows:

  1. A multitude of options and possible roles a Pokemon can fulfill makes it better, but many Pokemon do just fine with one niche. Look at Pinsir. He's a wonderful Pokemon that can only do one thing effectively.
  2. You don't have to build around Galvantula. You need a team that appreciates it. If your team is Bulky Offense or Stall, obviously Galvantula isn't gonna be all that great for you. If you're running a frailer, more offensively-minded team then Galvantula will probably support the team quite well.
  3. Using the provided definition, we see that D-rank Pokemon have a small niche. Look at Malamar, for example. It's firmly D-rank because it has the niche of Contrary abuser. That's a small niche because few teams are going to really benefit from that. Galvantula's niche is obviously setting up Sticky Web, which is generally useful for any highly-offensive team. That's a much larger niche.
  4. The other part of the definition says that the flaws make them too troublesome to use, meaning that, like C-rank Pokemon, these flaws prevent them from executing their strategy. Galvantula definitely has some flaws, but they aren't such that it cannot do its job in most cases. It gets Sticky Web up just fine, and can do so multiple times with careful play (ie. not sacking Galvantula right away.)
Anyway, I noticed Jaroda brought up a Pokemon I've been interested in...
Ani237MS.png

Hitmontop for C - Hitmontop is a unique rapid spin user, one of the few with particularly good special defense. It has a unique niche in that it is a deceptively bulky spinner who, on top of resisting Stealth Rock itself, has access to Intimidate and Assault Vest. The combination makes it a relatively safe switch into most things with his lack of weaknesses, unlike Excadrill for example. Hitmontop also mitigates his mediocre speed with several priority moves including Mach Punch, Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch, with the option of Technician to boost two of them. These attacks can allow Hitmontop the liberty of investing more into HP and Attack or Defenses to be a well rounded threat. The downside is that while he has Sucker Punch, it can't hit Ghosts on the switch, nor can Pursuit. However, Pursuit with Technician makes it an interesting trap for Ghosts since its powered up by itself, and powered up even more if they switch out. Technician boosted Thief otherwise is his best option for Ghosts. Access to Close Combat, High Jump Kick, Earth Quake, Stone Edge and Body Slam give it a good mix of utility. All of his tools though are still compensating for a lack of impressive stats, and its a tough case to make for Hitmontop over certain other spinners with more reliable speed. His compensatory niche makes C ranking appropriate.

When helping a friend make a team, I suggested this guy as a spinner, and so we gave it a shot. He's neat, to say the least. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying about him. He's sometimes hard to justify using over other spinners, though. With Intimidate and Assault Vest he is quite bulky, and even with his sub-par Attack he can hit certain threats very hard (he actually pairs pretty well with Char-Y, both spinning away SR and taking out Tyranitar with relative ease.) However, his Speed is often pretty disappointing, as is his Attack if he isn't using Super-Effective moves. I'll second the nomination for C rank.
 
That's not really how D-rank works.



The arguments I have against your judgement this are as follows:

  1. A multitude of options and possible roles a Pokemon can fulfill makes it better, but many Pokemon do just fine with one niche. Look at Pinsir. He's a wonderful Pokemon that can only do one thing effectively.
  2. You don't have to build around Galvantula. You need a team that appreciates it. If your team is Bulky Offense or Stall, obviously Galvantula isn't gonna be all that great for you. If you're running a frailer, more offensively-minded team then Galvantula will probably support the team quite well.
  3. Using the provided definition, we see that D-rank Pokemon have a small niche. Look at Malamar, for example. It's firmly D-rank because it has the niche of Contrary abuser. That's a small niche because few teams are going to really benefit from that. Galvantula's niche is obviously setting up Sticky Web, which is generally useful for any highly-offensive team. That's a much larger niche.
  4. The other part of the definition says that the flaws make them too troublesome to use, meaning that, like C-rank Pokemon, these flaws prevent them from executing their strategy. Galvantula definitely has some flaws, but they aren't such that it cannot do its job in most cases. It gets Sticky Web up just fine, and can do so multiple times with careful play (ie. not sacking Galvantula right away.)

Galvantula is not getting Sticky Web out multiple times. It just isn't. It's too frail and it has extremely common weaknesses. It can often only get it out the first time with Focus Sash. HO teams want nothing to do with Sticky Web, they need SR/Spikes for important KOs. There are very few frail hard hitters that aren't going to be outspeeding everything anyway - bulky offense is the only playstyle that might benefit from it, but again, a lot of things in OU aren't even affected by it anyway.

SW is a crappy strategy, but if for some reason you're dead set on it, Galvantula is really the only way to go. He has no use outside of that, and SW has no use outside of a team that's meant to appreciate it.
 
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