Pokémon Donphan

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I think the impact of Donphan don't lies on how well it can do its jobs, but the fact that it can do them at the same time. It doesn't tank well, but it tanks when it is needed, and revenge with the damage it needs. It doesn't spin well, but it still spins, and spins with its own hazard down as well.

In fact, there are many teams around which does not desperately need hazard control (having TF and Zard in the team) or a physical wall (not particular frail but have troubles against specific threats like Infernape) to function but will miss them. It does not matter how well you do the job when the oppotunity cost is one whole team slot. Donphan outperforms them in the sense that it only takes one team slot, not two, or even more.

This is exceptional true to themed teams (weather teams for instance) which have at least 3 to 4 of their team slot filled in order to finish the strategy, and need to wrap the things up within the 2 slots left, and this is the time when pokemon like Donphan which can provide multiple function all at once shines.

And btw, Donphan does exceptionally well in terms of tanking random non-mainstream physical attack for the same reason as Hippowdon.
 
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Prosecutor Godot said:
Donphan's niche as a bulky spinner is not nearly enough to justify it's higher usage over Terrakion, Landorus-I, Keldeo, Latias, Kyurem-B, Starmie, Deoxys-S, Tornadus-T and Bisharp. There are just so many better ways to remove entry hazards than using a Donphan. Excadrill, while more frail physically, has better special bulk, more power, isn't slow as all hell, and a Mold Breaker EQ that comes in extremely handy for dealing with Levitate users like the most common pokemon in OU, Rotom-W. It also has 8 resistances and 2 immunities, which especially with an Air Balloon will give Excadrill plenty of opportunities to spin hazards. Starmie is the fastest spinner in the game barring Sand Rush Excadrill, and while it struggles to get through the most common ghost type in Aegislash it still is super fast, and harder to revenge kill than a Donphan. Hell, even Tentacruel is an option that lot of utility in it's decent speed, typing, special bulk and utility in Knock Off + Toxic Spikes. That's just Rapid Spinners; that doesn't even get into the amount of Defoggers which can also function as a better wall than Donphan. Mandibuzz, Mega-Scizor, Latias, Skarmory. All of which, unlike Donphan have reliable recovery as well as much better options to support their team.

Secondly, stop acting like Donphan can use 252 EVs in every stat, as well as Earthquake, Rock Slide, Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Seed Bomb, Roar, Ice Shard, Play Rough and Toxic in one set. Donphan needs each one of those moves either for utility or to not be walled by another top threat (Ice Shard, Gliscor/Landorus-T. Seed Bomb, Rotom-W. Rock coverage, Charizard-Y/Talonflame). If it runs Adamant, then it's 2HKOed by top threats like Banded Talonflame and if it goes bulky then it becomes incredibly weak and becomes setup bait for a variety of pokemon that don't mind it's weak, uninvested coverage moves. Donphan is also pathetically frail on the Special side and is almost useless against teams that mostly uses Special attackers. As much as I'm shitting on Donphan right now, it's not completely useless. It has good utility in it's Physical bulk and movepool but it should only be used as a last resort if absolutely no other method of removing hazards work for a SR weak team. UU is in desperate need of more viable spinners right now, which is why I'd really like to see Donphan, Tentacruel and Forretress drop; there are much better options in OU for all 3 that aren't going to be a huge liability a good chunk of the time.

For the person who posted the Rock Polish Donphan set..just no, Landorus-I still does that much better.
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Well obviously it is enough to justify it, or whats ur explanation for its high usage? Further more, 90% of the other pokes u mention that dont get high usage fill COMPLETELY different roles and cannot be used as a comparison.

And no there is no better way to remove hazards than donphan, there are other ways yes, but Donphan has a combination of traites that make it unique in its role, if u need these traites there is no better choice than donphan. Then the stupid excadrill example. Excadrill has more offensive presence yes, but it has no bulk whats so ever, so if u need a bulky spinner neither excadrill nor starmie are an option. Excadrill might have more resistances on paper but most of them are of no importance. The most important among them probably beeing his flying resistance which doesnt help him in the least because all common users of flying type attacks (talonflame, mega pinsir, Starraptor) have coverage moves to ohko excadrill while donphan can stop every single one of them. On the other hand his weaknesses are against types that are EVERYWHERE!! Ground/Fighting/Fire are virtually all over the place.
And seriously what business does donphan have with rotom-w? Its a rapid spinner, hazard setter and physical tank. Rotom doesnt block rapid spin, doesnt remove hazards and attacks on the special side so what business do they have with each other? Exactly, none.

Some defoggers might rival Donphan on first sight, Skarmory for example. However, they are defoggers not rapid spinners. And defog has quite a few disadvantages over rapid spin that might keep ppl from using them. Bisharp and the removal of ur own hazards are the 2 most important.

Its true that donphan cant use all the moves it might want to have, but seriously it doesnt need all of them. If ur afraid of beeing setup fodder for sweepers, use roar. If u want to fuck up spinnblockers use knockoff, if u want to hit certain threats hard go for the corresponding coverage move. Also donphan doesnt care if it gets walled by certain threats because ITS NOT A SWEEPER. Aside from spinning and hazard setting the most donphan wants to do is to check/counter some physical threats. Teams with mostly special attackers are rare at the moment and even against such teams donphan can still do his 2 major jobs, setting up hazards and spinning. And while we are talking about sub par special bulk, excadrills isnt much better, the difference is so small it hardly matters in practise both get 1 shot by strong special attacks... oh wait, donphan has sturdy and cant be 1 shot like excadrill.
 
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Baharoth said:
And seriously what business does donphan have with rotom-w? Its a rapid spinner, hazard setter and physical tank. Rotom doesnt block rapid spin, doesnt remove hazards and attacks on the special side so what business do they have with each other? Exactly, none.
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It can burn Donphan to wear it down and break Sturdy, and/or finish it off with Hydro Pump.
 
I'm sorry, what is this? Compared to the more common spinners of standard, Donphan's a bad excuse for a spinner. It's forced to switch against nearly every spinblocker bar Aegislash (and only because it's weak to it's STAB), has small offensive presence, and no reliable recovery. Hippowdon completely outclasses it defensively if not being used as a spinner, Excadrill outclasses it offensively, at this point one may ask, "Why am I not just using a Defogger? There are many more useful options."

In summary, a terrible Pokemon, and an even worse excuse to use it in OU.
 
The concept of a bulky spinner must be incredibly hard to understand... always the same "arguments" that completely miss the point -.-
 
ColtCababa said:
I'm sorry, what is this? Compared to the more common spinners of standard, Donphan's a bad excuse for a spinner. It's forced to switch against nearly every spinblocker bar Aegislash (and only because it's weak to it's STAB), has small offensive presence, and no reliable recovery. Hippowdon completely outclasses it defensively if not being used as a spinner, Excadrill outclasses it offensively, at this point one may ask, "Why am I not just using a Defogger? There are many more useful options."

In summary, a terrible Pokemon, and an even worse excuse to use it in OU.
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At this point this is running in circles. No relevant defogger/rapid spinner has the same typing and status distribution than Donphan has. This doesn't mean Donphan is a superb spinner or a necessity for OU teams. That's pretty much all there is to say about the elephant.

If you are inclined to use it, be sure to try other defoggers/spinners on your team because there are many viable pokemon to choose from. This is a general truth for every pokemon, but it's specially important for a pokemon like Donphan whose niche is pretty small (physical bulk/typing + rapid spin).

Can we agree on this and stop the recurring "donphan sucks" mantra? This is something that always happens to pokemon that are high on usage despite other more powerful pokemon not being as high as them (think Ambipom on Gen V UU). It gets tiresome pretty fast and it's always a sterile discussion.
 
Why are people insisting on extremes here? The pro-phan users are arguing that its really good, and the anti-phan users are saying hes utter trash, and has no role, because excadrill is more offensive or because hippowdon has better bulk.

Donphan is not the best and he certainly isn't the worst. He is a viable spinner in OU, not only because he can spin reliably against physical threats, but also because he can set up rocks and phase as well. He is a physical support mon, not an impassible wall nor an offensive juggernaut. Get that straight please. The mentioning of priority and knock off, blah blah.... just shows that donphan can pull its weight besides clearing hazards, setting up rocks, and phasing.

4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 248-292 (94.6 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO : Gengar won't switch. It'll lose.
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 206-244 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even aegislash can't take this guy out.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 240-283 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 51-61 (13.2 - 15.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever (the calc's words)

In response...
4 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 440-518 (135.8 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-212 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So the only ghosts I think it should worry about is Sableye, and defensive gourgeist super, luckily, Pokemon battles is 6 v 6 and not 1 v 6...

Stop saying Donphan is bad because it can't take out Rotom. Who cares, that's not its job. It doesn't even need to stay in on it, because rotom doesn't do the two things that donphan takes care of, which is set up hazards or set up.

Don't bag on it for not being able to take out Lando-T with ice shard... obviously. Its a defensive hazard clearer, and at -1 with just about no attack investment. And lando-T does laughable damage to donphan while being unable to set up rocks on it.

You forget it can take out Garchomp and severely damage Dragonite,

Here's garchomp

4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 144-172 (40.2 - 48%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As for dragonite...
4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 72-86 (22.2 - 26.5%) -- 14.8% chance to 4HKO

Then

4 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-172 (44.4 - 53%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO

Meanwhile...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 141-166 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

That all being said, I still want it to drop to UU, because hitmontop sucks and Blastoise is very obvious. Donphan would be a huge help down there.
 
JackTheGordie said:
Donphan also has sturdy so if he HAS to come in on a special attacker, he can always get the spin your team needs or get the ice shard off for that last little bit of damage.
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Yeah, no. Sturdy will be broken by Stealth Rock and/or Spikes, so unless Donphan comes in before the hazards go up, it's going to take a bit of damage from them. And that little bit of damage will allow the OHKO to happen, seeing as Leftovers recovery doesn't happen until the end of the turn.

That said, I do like Donphan, though it's not one of my favorite 'mons by a long shot. But you can't expect Sturdy to save it from being OHKO'd by a special attack when you're sending it in on hazards.
 
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LoDart210 said:
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 248-292 (94.6 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO : Gengar won't switch. It'll lose.
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 206-244 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 220-260 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even aegislash can't take this guy out.

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 240-283 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 51-61 (13.2 - 15.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever (the calc's words)

In response...
4 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 440-518 (135.8 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 180-212 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Knock off will lower to 65 power after the items is knocked off, preventing a 2HKO. In the meantime Jellicent will burn it and stall it out with recover, while Trevenant can cripple it with will-o-wisp and leech seed. Aegislash is faster and will KO it with Shadow ball. This is not to mention that no one is going to switch gengar into the obvious knock off. If it does get it safely, it can threaten donphan with a shadow ball (66.9 - 79.1%) (which matters since knock off only OHKO's it with about the same chance as focus blast, and because donophan is at lower health most of the time since it has no recovery).

However, seeing that aegislash is the only really common ghost pokemon in OU, its not that it has trouble spinning that bothers donphan. What really hampers its performance is its pathetic offensive and defensive presence, the fact that it loses all momentum immediately, that it has pathetic special bulk, and that it has no recovery.
 
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Again, you can give donphan special bulk with an assault vest. This has led to several situations where I can get a spin off in front of a charizard, greninja, genesect or some other special attacker that thought they could use their momentum to prevent clearing hazards. For all intents and purposes, Mandibuzz is a better hazard clearer. But there are times I want to run some other dark and or flying type on my team and don't want to stack up on the weaknesses that brings.
 
Since when was base 120 Attack "pathetic"? All of these calcs don't actually matter, nobody is trying to sweep with him, he's there for the utility he provides. It can also force switches on quite a few popular physical attackers who are weary of being crippled by a Knock Off, powerful attack or even Toxic (which is pretty common, although he has chronic 4mss). Either way, getting a free spin, Rocks setup or hitting the switch with a knock off is always useful. Then you switch him out... simple, you don't stay in to get scalded to death or whatever, he is by no means a wall, as he has no recovery. Ice Shard, again has its uses, as does all priority, although it is often really underwhelming as the calcs show. IMO The reason for his usage is because he has unique utility, he isn't really like any other Pokemon, in a similar way that Dugtrio, who has garbage stats, is in OU; because he is unique. Overall, it seems a lot of people agree Donphan is probably best suited for UU but is a unique Pokemon with valuable niches in OU too.
 
Wunderbear said:
Since when was base 120 Attack "pathetic"? All of these calcs don't actually matter, nobody is trying to sweep with him, he's there for the utility he provides. It can also force switches on quite a few popular physical attackers who are weary of being crippled by a Knock Off, powerful attack or even Toxic (which is pretty common, although he has chronic 4mss). Either way, getting a free spin, Rocks setup or hitting the switch with a knock off is always useful. Then you switch him out... simple, you don't stay in to get scalded to death or whatever, he is by no means a wall, as he has no recovery. Ice Shard, again has its uses, as does all priority, although it is often really underwhelming as the calcs show. IMO The reason for his usage is because he has unique utility, he isn't really like any other Pokemon, in a similar way that Dugtrio, who has garbage stats, is in OU; because he is unique. Overall, it seems a lot of people agree Donphan is probably best suited for UU but is a unique Pokemon with valuable niches in OU too.
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I dunno, despite being weak to sr and prone to defiant switch in, mandibuzz does the job alot better with

a. Similar bulk with sp.def to boot
b. Foul play hits hard in physically oriented metagame without needing investment
c. Roost
d. Fast Taunt
e. Also has phazing
f. Also has knock off
g. U-turn

Donphan performs its role well as abusing sturdy, shard and spin, but tbh i would rather defog with mandibuzz than anything else. It should be UU.
 
midend said:
I dunno, despite being weak to sr and prone to defiant switch in, mandibuzz does the job alot better with

a. Similar bulk with sp.def to boot
b. Foul play hits hard in physically oriented metagame without needing investment
c. Roost
d. Fast Taunt
e. Also has phazing
f. Also has knock off
g. U-turn

Donphan performs its role well as abusing sturdy, shard and spin, but tbh i would rather defog with mandibuzz than anything else. It should be UU.
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I agree completely, Donphan should be UU. But as people have already said, not everyone wants to run defog and lose all of their own hazards. Which give Donphan its niche and is basically the sole reason it has any use at all and is not completely outclassed by a myriad of other Pokemon, Mandibuzz included.
 
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 130-153 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 100-118 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 100-118 (26 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 130-153 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 150-177 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Seems like a pretty good T-Flame check/counter to me. Personally Donphan is my favorite Spinner of all time because donphan is such a bulky monster and having a unique physical move pool is great too with moves like EQ,Seed Bomb,Ice Shard, Head Smash ect.

Choice Banded donphan?

252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Gliscor: 172-204 (48.5 - 57.6%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 168-200 (47.4 - 56.4%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-W: 256-302 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 972-1144 (251.8 - 296.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatran: 708-832 (183.4 - 215.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Infernape: 668-788 (227.9 - 268.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Donphan Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 284-336 (79.5 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
use this pokemon as lead. u can block dem entry hazards with rapid spin or just use stealth rock and earthquake all the way. also, if ur risky, try head smash. oh and if your using it for lead, dont use assult vest. donphan might get 1 shoted and the assult vest will just completly waste sturdy.


Magnemite said:
Sure, Donphan is bulky. But that begs the question, "Why not just use Hippowdon?" Hippowdon is far bulkier than Donphan (especially in terms of special bulk), has Whirlwind to prevent itself from being major setup bait, and, most importantly, reliable recovery. This allows it to function as a far better wall than Donphan ever could. Yes, Donphan has Rapid Spin, but it is bad on offensive teams because it has very little offensive presence, and it is mediocre on defensive teams because it has no recovery and is straight-up outclassed as a wall by Hippo. Offensive teams would much, much rather use Excadrill or Starmie if they needed to remove hazards for obvious reasons, whereas defensive teams have Defog Skarmory and Mandibuzz to remove hazards without wasting a slot on an otherwise bad Pokemon in Donphan. Donphan is outclassed in any role it can perform on both offensive and defensive teams.

And to the guy who mentioned using Gunk Shot, Thunder Fang, or Bounce on Donphan: No. Just no.
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ya agreed excadrill has both rapid spin and stealth rock (if ur about that transfer move life) plus if your gonna use donphan for a pratical suiside to lay out entry hazards, excadrill has better speed and attack.
 
I don't think even the most avid Donphan user will try to argue about how good it is, we just care how niche it is because it is essentially the only physical bulky spinner in the meta. It is bad, but not crippling bad, and is the best we have in certain scenario, which is not all that rare.
 
Let it be known that:

Donphan Leftovers
Impish
Sturdy
252HP/4Atk/252Def

Can take a +6 Sacred Sword and OHKO back with EQ on Aegislash. I mean, if one of the top used pokemon can't even get a KO at +6, someone is going to abuse that fact.
 
Chev said:
Let it be known that:

Donphan Leftovers
Impish
Sturdy
252HP/4Atk/252Def

Can take a +6 Sacred Sword and OHKO back with EQ on Aegislash. I mean, if one of the top used pokemon can't even get a KO at +6, someone is going to abuse that fact.
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Except it can't come in on Aegislash as this could(/will) happen:

252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 288-339 (75 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mixed Aegi (with 0 Spe IVs) is slower than Donphan though so it would need a tiny bit of prior damage (or high rolls) to KO it with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak.
 
Toljik said:
Physical walls like Donphan are exactly why many Aegislash run mixed sets.
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But not all are Mixed sets. Not every team calls for such a set.


Mitchhhhhh said:
Except it can't come in on Aegislash as this could(/will) happen:

252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 288-339 (75 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mixed Aegi (with 0 Spe IVs) is slower than Donphan though so it would need a tiny bit of prior damage (or high rolls) to KO it with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak.
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I'm not sure what world you live in, but 60 outspeeds 50 every time, even with negative nature and 0 for the speed IV. So Aegislash will always come off with the first hit, followed by a OHKO (other than Air Balloon and Focus Sash variants).

Given, I'm not saying that this is the sole reason to use him. It's just another reason why Donphan is completely viable in the OU metagame right now.
 
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