Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I disagree with the new list:

Gliscor should be an A-class, simply because it can stall out much of the metagame with its standard sub-protect set. Also, the nerf in special moves helps it out a lot since it now can reasonably chance of switching into a Rotom-W Hydro Pump and not get KOed, (although that is not how one is supposed to use it).

Manaphy for A+?
Landorus A+? A Ground attack + Psychic or Poison attack does not provide much coverage. It does not have a dominant spammable move. Psychic does not provide much coverage, although it is a means of dealing with Conkeldurr or Mega Venusaur. Its 101 speed is good though as it can act as a counter for Charizard Y (if it uses Rock Slide) or a check for Charizard X who cannot use it as set-up bait, or it will fear Rock Slide. But does not seem to be enough, as it loses the ability to deal with Garchomp. (Lando-T does it better due to bulk)

 

[Salt]

I guess its C because most ppl here consider it to be outclassed by its incarnate form which is faster and has access to Prankster.

I'm going to push for Thundurus-T to be moved to B. C+ seems like a complete disregard for its capabilities, and the statement that it's completely outclassed by Thundurus-I is simply untrue. There are several sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I, namely Agility, Choice Scarf/Specs, and LO all-out attacker. With Agility, both formes are going to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after a boost, and what use does Prankster Agility have? Thundurus-T is much better for Agility because it simply has more power, which is the only thing that matters in this case. Choice or other all attacking sets are also better with Thundurus-T because Prankster is wasted on Thundurus-I if no status moves are being used, and Volt Absorb is useful for catching a stray Electric attack to heal some Stealth Rock or Life Orb damage. It, again, has more power as well. The number of sets that Thundurus-T does better than Thundurus-I are in great enough number to get it to be moved up to B.

 

[Colonial]

I disagree with the new list:

Gliscor should be an A-class, simply because it can stall out much of the metagame with its standard sub-protect set. Also, the nerf in special moves helps it out a lot since it now can reasonably chance of switching into a Rotom-W Hydro Pump and not get KOed, (although that is not how one is supposed to use it).

Manaphy for A+?
Landorus A+? A Ground attack + Psychic or Poison attack does not provide much coverage. It does not have a dominant spammable move. Psychic does not provide much coverage, although it is a means of dealing with Conkeldurr or Mega Venusaur. Its 101 speed is good though as it can act as a counter for Charizard Y (if it uses Rock Slide) or a check for Charizard X who cannot use it as set-up bait, or it will fear Rock Slide. But does not seem to be enough, as it loses the ability to deal with Garchomp. (Lando-T does it better due to bulk)

Landorus-I also gets Focus Blast, Psychic isn't it's only Sheer Force abusing move. Ground+ Poison is actually pretty good coverage barring Skarmory, though super-effective coverage is subpar.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

Landorus-I also gets Focus Blast, Psychic isn't it's only Sheer Force abusing move. Ground+ Poison is actually pretty good coverage barring Skarmory, though super-effective coverage is subpar.

Relying on Focus Blast would certainly elicit some eye rolls. At least it hits Heatran and Ferrothorn harder than Gengar's Shadow Ball.


Ground + Poison fails against Steel types with Air Balloon, and Balloon Excadrill, Heatran, and Aegislash are fairly common. It is just that its STAB is too predictable and not spammable for a special attacker. Gengar could spam its Shadow Ball from a 110 speed tier.

 

[Colonial]

Relying on Focus Blast would certainly elicit some eye rolls.

Ground + Poison fails against Steel types with Air Balloon, and Balloon Excadrill, Heatran, and Aegislash are fairly common. It is just that its STAB is too predictable and not spammable for a special attacker. Gengar could spam its Shadow Ball from a 110 speed tier.

I can't argue about Focus Miss's unreliability, but that's hardly a fault unique to Landorus, I think. Ground+Poison+Fighting rounds out well enough barring the aforementioned Skarmory and Air Balloon Aegis (which I didn't know was a thing). I think Landorus is A+ mainly for how hard it hits while completely unboosted and having a decent speed tier. A fast wallbreaker, one could say.

 

[alexwolf]

Earth Power + Focus Blast + Psychic + U-turn doesn't have a single counter from S and A ranks and OHKOes a ton of slower Pokemon, causing switches like crazy. It also has excellent survivability and is very hard to wear down. Landorus is an excellent offensive Pokemon and deserving of A+ imo. However, i can see why someone would want it lower, as it doesn't have a single strong and spammable move and needs some prediction to work to its full potential, but usually the switch-ins to it are pretty obvious and simple to nail with the correct coverage move, and there are plenty of slower Pokemon that Landorus can OHKO, making it almost sure that the opponent is going to switch out.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Relying on Focus Blast would certainly elicit some eye rolls.

Ground + Poison fails against Steel types with Air Balloon, and Balloon Excadrill, Heatran, and Aegislash are fairly common. It is just that its STAB is too predictable and not spammable for a special attacker. Gengar could spam its Shadow Ball from a 110 speed tier.

Why would Focus Blast "elecit some eye rolls" on Lando when things like Gengar have been relying on Focus Miss for years? Lando-I has good coverage with a combination of Earth Power, Focus Blast, Psychic, and Sludge Wave, Rock Slide, or U-Turn in the final slot. With Sheer Force and LO boosted attacks Lando-I hits like a ton of bricks, has a good speed tier, and enough bulk to survive most neutral attacks. Lando breaks a lot of common defensive cores, and it also runs a great Scarf and RP sets. Just saying that it should be lower because Earth Power requires prediction isn't nearly enough to lower Lando-I from A+, in my opinion. It deserves that rank.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

I can't argue about Focus Miss's unreliability, but that's hardly a fault unique to Landorus, I think. Ground+Poison+Fighting rounds out well enough barring the aforementioned Skarmory and Air Balloon Aegis (which I didn't know was a thing). I think Landorus is A+ mainly for how hard it hits while completely unboosted and having a decent speed tier. A fast wallbreaker, one could say.

Ground + Poison + Fighting is certainly a good combination of attacks, but my problem is that it is not as spammable and can be thwarted with prediction.

In other words, it has the potential to give many free turns.

Spamming Focus Blast on the switch to hit a Rotom-W neutrally with it, while trying to avoid Ground immune Pokemon and Pokemon immune or neutral to Poison?

 

[Wobbyble]

I would like to point out that Gravity Landorus is viable and I've seen it wreck shit pretty hard. Rotom W, Skarm, Gengar, Air Ballooners, etc all fall to Gravity Earth Power.

 

[Meru]

Even Zapdos, Talonflame, and Mandibuzz, three very prominent Landorus-I checks, get thwarted by Gravity Earth Powers, while also saving you the HP lost from using Hidden Power Ice due to the recoil not being negated by Sheer Force

 

[termi]

For now, we are treating MEvos and regular formes as separate Pokemon. Although some MEvos are much more similar to their regular forme, such as Tyranitar and Scizor, we are treating all the MEvos in the same way to keep things clear, otherwise people could get confused why some MEvos are treated as separate Pokemon and some aren't. After all, the goal of this thread is to show to people how good each Pokemon is in the metagame and for the community to have a good list of reference based on viability. Seeing as MEvos have a significant opportunity cost in that you are allowed to use only one in each team, it is fair to rank them separately from their base formes so that the readers can know the potential of each individual MEvo, so that they know if they are worth spending the Mega Slot.

For example, if we treat Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar as the same Pokemon, some readers won't be able to tell if Tyranitar's MEvo is worth of this ranking, or the sum of Tyranitar's sets is worth of this ranking, and thus will be unable to understand Mega Tyranitar's net competitive worth in the OU metagame.

So, for now, argue whether you think that Mega Tyranitar and Tyranitar separately should be A+ rank. Of course the fact that you can't know immediately if the Tyranitar you see on team preview is Mega or not is a pro that adds to Mega Tyranitar's versatility, so it can be used as an argument in favor of Mega Tyranitar.

Imo, Mega Tyranitar should be A+ and regular Tyranitar A.

If we rank both formes A+, how does it make it any different from Garchomp and Mega Garchomp, for example? I mean, both of these formes also fill a different niche but are ranked together. Just put Mega Ttar next to regular Ttar like it's done with many other Megas that have OU-viable regular counterparts, won't be very confusing imo.

Also Krookodile for C(+) rank, saw some discussion on that shit and honestly, there's little reason to use it over Landorus-T as a defensive pivot. Let's compare, shall we?

Stat-wise, pretty much everything's in Lando's favor. Slightly lower HP stat is compensated by higher defenses and he has a much higher attack stat as well as a usable special attack stat (so he can pack some punch behind an HP Ice if he opts for that). Krook has +1 in speed, which is rather trivial. Typing-wise, Lando-T has a way superior defensive typing (ground/dark is really really eh defensively, it does get resist on SR I guess but that's about it). Krook does get STAB Knock Off though, although Lando's Knock Off doesn't hit significantly less hard. In the movepool department, Lando has an actually strong HP Ice and U-Turn, whereas Krook has Pursuit (which is kinda weak without investment) and Taunt. Idon't think it's really got much of a niche as Lando outclasses it in raw stats and typing almost all the time. Other Krook sets are barely even worth mentioning. Krook has a small niche, usually not worth going through trouble for but it's usable. Therefor I suggest we move it down.

 

[escarlata]

i am smart enough to do so.


so what ? it still loses to almost every pokemon in the tier , dont get me wrong but offensive pokemon are supposed to kill right ? this guy is unable to do so , people will just keep using it for a little mostly because of the rocks until it end ups low OU , maybe UU

rotom-water is everywhere , not that it means anything , just becuase it has good natural coverage doesn't mean he is great , and that there is not a crapload of pokemon that can sponge both of his attacks or destroy him before he gets a chance to move


and guess what ? thats something nice to post in the PO forums , i only the read the official smogon stats (much more better and representative), and those stats say that its 71% they skyrocketed from 31% in the BW to 71% in XY reviling exactly what i am saying the offensive niche of Mamo has dropped significantly people mostly use it for the rocks and even that wont last much believe me.

its 71%


nice let me see



ok it beats that , thanks to its 4x weaknaness

18% is 18% it still lives most of the time even after rocks it survives most of the time ,plus many Mgarchomps run bulk, the returning blow from garry kills most of the time.


focus miss kills next , most of the time


struggles to get a 2hko , pinsir always returns a ko , great check indeed

its 50-50



but what happens when it crosses the most common tyranitar set out there the mega one ? it still loses most of the time, superpower kill easily although there is a good chance to kill with just stone edge, the old scarf and sash sets beat it as well



standard dragonite set can bypass it , it can hit with dragon claw first turn and then hit with xspeed after one lo recoil mamo is down, even in one to one this guy is unable to stop one of the most dominant dragons in the game, pathetic



none would be talking about dragonite if it wasn't for its multiscale

same with lando I

his average damage output is 65% that means mandibuzz can perform about 4 roosts before it gets into the ko zone as it recovers 56% every round , 4 rounds mean 4 life orb recoils , the last turn mandibuzz can hit foul play (51.8 - 61.4%) and get to die but take mamo with it at worst but there still that one chance that foul play damage roll hits for above 60% so it can be used at the 3rd turn so it can beat that loser without dying

and i am not even going to calculate what happens if mandibuzz uses knock off knocking its lo away


the same with gliskor , although it can u turn on it face in case its offensive, rare super power also gets the job done


guess what happens next ?

lati@s returns KOs

calcs speak by them self .

Your statement is shallow in that you assume an offensive pokemon has to kill its victims from full health. mamoswine is the anti meta pokemon because of the fact that its stab ice shard is capable of hitting so many things for good damage, which usually turns them into kos with either stealth rock or u turn damage. Addressing some of the non-ohkos, thundurus's only set that is capable of taking down mamoswine happens to carry life orb, which would imply several rounds of recoil before mamoswine comes in for the revenge; dragonite will not likely to be at full health after it sets up so ice shard reliably ohkos, if it hasn't set up I.e. has intact multiscale, then you outspeed and ohko with icicle crash or icicle spear through multiscale; my mawile calculation is mistakenly done at -1(from the prev calc), implying mawile switches into mamoswine and then mega evolve, but mawile is not supposed to switch into mamoswine, mamoswine switches into mawile for a clean ohko; latias and latios fall short of getting an ohko outside of draco meteor, which would allow for a free set up by one of its allies; and finally, note that all of the calcs are done with jolly, when its most common one is with adamant, which allows it to ohko garchomp, tyranitar, aegislash and co. at a much better rate

 

[Exclaimer]

Even Zapdos, Talonflame, and Mandibuzz, three very prominent Landorus-I checks, get thwarted by Gravity Earth Powers, while also saving you the HP lost from using Hidden Power Ice due to the recoil not being negated by Sheer Force

I can testify to the monstrosity that is Gravity Landorus-I. I had two very viable Landorus checks in my team, Charizard Y and Rotom (as well as an air balloon Excadrill) and the rest of my team couldn't stomach the Earth Powers comfortably, so the thing ended up KO'ing my Excadrill as I sacked it in order to get my Charizard in (Which outsped it for some reason, as I figured out earlier in the match). Ground type attacks with no immunites possible is very strong, considering grass and bug are the only types to resist it (Two types which often have a secondary typing weak to ground, such as Venu's Poison type and the Steel-Bugs that are everywhere). I'm surprised that Gravity gets an OO mention in the analysis, but I guess that's because Landorus cannot afford to set it up most of the time. Still, a very potent move.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

If we rank both formes A+, how does it make it any different from Garchomp and Mega Garchomp, for example? I mean, both of these formes also fill a different niche but are ranked together. Just put Mega Ttar next to regular Ttar like it's done with many other Megas that have OU-viable regular counterparts, won't be very confusing imo.

Also Krookodile for C(+) rank, saw some discussion on that shit and honestly, there's little reason to use it over Landorus-T as a defensive pivot. Let's compare, shall we?

Stat-wise, pretty much everything's in Lando's favor. Slightly lower HP stat is compensated by higher defenses and he has a much higher attack stat as well as a usable special attack stat (so he can pack some punch behind an HP Ice if he opts for that). Krook has +1 in speed, which is rather trivial. Typing-wise, Lando-T has a way superior defensive typing (ground/dark is really really eh defensively, it does get resist on SR I guess but that's about it). Krook does get STAB Knock Off though, although Lando's Knock Off doesn't hit significantly less hard. In the movepool department, Lando has an actually strong HP Ice and U-Turn, whereas Krook has Pursuit (which is kinda weak without investment) and Taunt. Idon't think it's really got much of a niche as Lando outclasses it in raw stats and typing almost all the time. Other Krook sets are barely even worth mentioning. Krook has a small niche, usually not worth going through trouble for but it's usable. Therefor I suggest we move it down.

You've missed the fact that Krookodile's dark type also allows it to resist Dark and Ghost. The Dark resist makes him a better check to Bisharp (although he will give Bisharp an extra +1 attack thanks to Intimidate and Defiant), and the Ghost resist allows him to switch into Aegislash barring a Sacred Sword predict (Landorus-T is usually 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball, although he can force Aegislash out). I think those, plus STAB knock off, are the best reasons to use him over Landorus-T. Also he doesn't have a 4x weakness, so he won't go down to everything carrying HP Ice (unfortuately Thundurus usually carries Focus Blast too).

As it seems to be official that we're ranking Megas separately from their base forms, it would probably make the most sense not to slash them next to each other when they're in the same tier. If Mega-Garchomp and Garchomp are being treated as different pokemon (which btw is the way I think it should be done too), then they shouldn't get special treatment by being placed next to each other. That just makes it confusing.

 

[Thorhammer]

Woah, looking through the top ranks, the only things that resist Ground in Gravity in B- or better right now are Pinsir, Heracross, Chesnaught, and Breloom, and three of those are weak to Psychic.

 

[SuperWumbology]

I'd like to see Thundurus-T be moved up to B/B-, as I feel that despite the fact that his brother, Thundurus-I overshadows him in a lot of categories, its overall power is just too much to keep him in C+ range. First of all, Thundurus-T has the highest non-Mega SpA stat of all Electric-types, giving him a lot of power backing him up. Also, with its power, Thundurus-T can run a more powerful Agility set, Nasty Plot set, or both than its brother, in addition to having room to run an above-average Scarf or Specs set to suit your teams offensive requirements. Even though it loses Prankster in the form change, Thundurus-T gains a relatively useful ability in Volt Absorb, letting it switch in to powerful Electric attacks unhindered, and possibly regain health in the process. This lets Thundurus-T help out severely Electric weak Pokemon like Gyarados, and can help either of them gain up the setup opportunities they need in order to sweep. However, Thundurus-I is the more popular choice for a reason. Without Prankster, Thundurus-T loses a lot of utility its brother brings to the table, such as Prankster Taunt and T-Wave. But, the more important flaw Thundurus-T has to deal with is that it loses it great Speed tier of 111 to a not-so-stellar 101 in the form change, letting it get outsped by important threats like Terrakion, Garchomp and Gengar, which take advantage of Thundy's frailty, hampering its sweeping sets by a considerable amount. Regardless, Thundurus-T can still hold its own in the tier and deal some massive damage if unprepared, and is still a dangerous sweeper.

Also, I would like to support the nomination of Mega Aggron to B+/B for a variety of reasons he brings to the OU metagame. What I should address first is Mega Aggron's awe-inspiring 230 base Defense, tied with Shuckle for the highest Defense in Pokemon, backed up by an acceptable base 70 HP and base 80 SpD. Combined with its retyping to mono-Steel in the evo and an ability change to Filter, this allows Aggron to beat almost any physical attacker in the tier one-on-one, with examples such as Garchomp, Mega Mawile, Aegislash, Dragonite, and Choice Band Talonflame. With access to great support moves like T-Wave, Stealth Rock, and Roar/Dragon Tail, Mega Aggron can bear almost any physical defense shortcomings the team can have, and cripple most sweepers that it cannot handle on its own. Also, its great base 140 Attack is still good uninvested, and has good coverage moves to help hit the threats he needs to check hard, with Ice/Ground coverage in Earthquake+Ice Punch, hitting opposing Steels with Fire Punch, and Iron Head for a stray Fairy and Kyurem-B. This effectively lets Mega Aggron reliably halt even the most powerful physical attackers, and finish them off without trouble. But, there are some things that hold it back from being the defensive beast that it is. Unlike a competing wall, Mega Venusaur, Mega Aggron has no reliable recovery outside of RestTalk, making Wish support a major factor in its overall success throughout the match. Also, it doesn't take too kindly to burns, and it cannot reliably tank SE special hits all to well from opposing special sweepers due to its average Special Defense. Despite this, Mega Aggron's titanic Defense makes Wish passing a lot easier than it sounds, and its sheer defensive capabilities more than make up for his flaws, and should finally take his place in the OU spotlight.

 

[Molk]

You've missed the fact that Krookodile's dark type also allows it to resist Dark and Ghost. The Dark resist makes him a better check to Bisharp (although he will give Bisharp an extra +1 attack thanks to Intimidate and Defiant), and the Ghost resist allows him to switch into Aegislash barring a Sacred Sword predict (Landorus-T is usually 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball, although he can force Aegislash out). I think those, plus STAB knock off, are the best reasons to use him over Landorus-T. Also he doesn't have a 4x weakness, so he won't go down to everything carrying HP Ice (unfortuately Thundurus usually carries Focus Blast too).

As it seems to be official that we're ranking Megas separately from their base forms, it would probably make the most sense not to slash them next to each other when they're in the same tier. If Mega-Garchomp and Garchomp are being treated as different pokemon (which btw is the way I think it should be done too), then they shouldn't get special treatment by being placed next to each other. That just makes it confusing.

Just wanted to point out that even with the Dark-type resist i don't think Krookodile can be called a good check to Bisharp at all. The resistance to Knock Off might look nice for this at first, but as mentioned Bisharp actually benefits from Krookodile's Intimidate, and actually ends up cleanly 2HKO'd by Bisharp's Iron Head on the switch. What's more? If Stealth Rock is up Krookodile can end up being taken out without the Bisharp user predicting at all, as Bisharp's resisted Knock Off+Iron Head actually does enough to KO Krookodile after SR, take. Calcs below, using the spread set to go onsite.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 226-266 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 136-161 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- Guarenteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

combined damage from Knock Off and Iron Head on the switch with Stealth Rock up: 98.05 - 114.6% - Pretty much a kill unless you get really horrible damage rolls on both moves, and even then Krookodile is pretty much dead afterwards.

(also i did some calcs before, if a spread designed to outspeed adamant bisharp is used by krook then Iron Head+Sucker Punch has a legitimate shot at KOing Krookodile w/ rocks, forcing you into a 50/50 at best)

TL;DR, Krookodile is a horrible check to Bisharp unless it comes in on like a predicted Sucker Punch or something (or comes in on revenge kill which means Bisharp still ended up KOing one of your mons before you sent krook in), if it comes in on pretty much any other move its going to end up dead at worst and beaten up and/or itemless (important since it has no recovery outside of lefties) at best.

All in all, i'd like to agree with everyone who's mentioned Krookodile before that i think it's a bit overrated and should move down to around C+. it recieves pretty stiff competition from Landorus-T, and while STAB Knock Off, a Shadow Ball resist, and Taunt are all well and good, Landorus-T has a lot of really, really important things such as an arguably better defensive typing that gives it some pretty important resistances such as Ground, Fighting, and Bug, and U-turn which is simply an absolutely amazing move for an Intimidate pivot (or really in general lol). To the point that i'd rather use the Intimidate cat over krook 99% of the time.

EDIT: Fwiw

+3 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 376-445 (95.4 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Stepping away from the Krook discussion (on that note, I'd be willing to accept C+ but not lower), I'd like to nominate Escavalier for C Rank. Despite receiving almost nonexistant usage, I have used Escavalier a bit and I have found it to be a pretty decent mon. It was pretty good in the lower tiers last gen, and it got some nice buffs this gen like Drill Run, Assault Vest, and the Knock Off buff. Megahorn and Iron Head both hit hard, and Steel STAB is a pretty awesome to nail Sylveon, Gardevoir, and Togekiss for good damage. Drill Run pretty much almost completely alleviated the coverage issues Escavalier had last gen, so it can hit Heatran and friends for good damage. Assault Vest is cool and along with Escavalier's great bulk and defensive typing, it can serve as a neat check to some common special threats such as Gengar, Greninja, Latios, etc. This is in addition to hitting hard with STAB Megahorn and Iron Head, while Knock Off is of course a great move to hit Ghosts and strap opponents of their items. Of course, Escavalier definitely has flaws, like its poor Speed, major weakness to Fire, and competition from Scizor and Genesect. Because of these flaws, I don't think Escavalier should go higher than C Rank. But nonetheless, I have found Escavalier to be a pretty decent Pokemon overall because of these qualities, and for these reasons I feel C Rank seems reasonable.

 

[alexwolf]

If we rank both formes A+, how does it make it any different from Garchomp and Mega Garchomp, for example? I mean, both of these formes also fill a different niche but are ranked together. Just put Mega Ttar next to regular Ttar like it's done with many other Megas that have OU-viable regular counterparts, won't be very confusing imo.

Garchomp and Mega Garchomp are both in the same rank because they both deserve to be there individually, not because they are treated as the same Pokemon. Same goes for Scizor / Mega Scizor, etc.

 

[Sturdynips]

alexwolf if Megas are ranked separately then it's probably a good idea to list them separately and not have them slashed, to avoid confusion.

I'd like to argue that Breloom should move down from B- to C rank. Breloom really got hurt this Gen, and I've found it to be pretty ineffectual. It is stopped dead by so many Pokemon, including very common threats like Mega Venusaur, Aegislash, and Mandibuzz. Breloom is basically a dead weight half the time. Rock-type coverage is nice, but most of the targets have to be hit on the switch due to Breloom's poor speed; hitting Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Charizard Y for example requires considerable prediction. So yeah, Breloom for C

 

[Pipotchi]

To repeat on what I said earlier, I think we should move regular Gardevoir from B and take it off the list. It has unique typing but I'm not really seeing what it can do different from last gen, and last gen it was solidly NU. It doesnt stand up to the majority of OU pokemon as a defensive pokemon, is considerably weaker and outclassed entirely by its mega form as an offensive mon, and although it has some nice support options and fairy typing its outclassed by other fairy supports like clefable surely? This poke should be off the listing imo.

 

[TinyNinja]

I am a noob, so call me out if I am being stupid.

I really like zoroark, it's my favorite pokemon and really fun to play with a good niche in Illusion, but it is really frail and just misses a good speed tier so I would say maybe C, C+.

Edit: Could someone please tell me if the discussion is only about the pokemon already listed? If not, I would like to see mega aggron around B+.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

To repeat on what I said earlier, I think we should move regular Gardevoir from B and take it off the list. It has unique typing but I'm not really seeing what it can do different from last gen, and last gen it was solidly NU. It doesnt stand up to the majority of OU pokemon as a defensive pokemon, is considerably weaker and outclassed entirely by its mega form as an offensive mon, and although it has some nice support options and fairy typing its outclassed by other fairy supports like clefable surely? This poke should be off the listing imo.

Regular Gardevoir's niche is being able to bluff Mega at preview and the benefit of gaining fairy typing. It's not top tier, but suddenly revenge killing with a scarf set while your opponent expected the mega is quite useful.

 

[ryan]

Popping in to say that I updated the OP a bit to make it less of an eyesore and to make it alphabetized. Carry on.

Oh also Escavalier should totally be C-rank. It's strong af and bulky af with Vest.

 

[Aragorn the King]

To repeat on what I said earlier, I think we should move regular Gardevoir from B and take it off the list. It has unique typing but I'm not really seeing what it can do different from last gen, and last gen it was solidly NU. It doesnt stand up to the majority of OU pokemon as a defensive pokemon, is considerably weaker and outclassed entirely by its mega form as an offensive mon, and although it has some nice support options and fairy typing its outclassed by other fairy supports like clefable surely? This poke should be off the listing imo.

Normal Gardevoir is not as bulky or strong as Mega Gardevoir, but its scarf set is good and has a niche. Gardevoir is a very strong pokemon with STAB on Psychic and Fairy moves, in a addition to a huge offensive movepool, that doesn't cost a mega slot. If you want to focus a team on Gardevoir, certainly use its Mega form. But, if you want a strong Psychic/Fairy type to either sweep with its large offensive movepool or support with its large supportive movepool, and yet have your heart set on including Mega Aggron on your team, Gardevoir is a completely viable choice. It wasn't ranked last generation, and wasn't so largely due to its poor defensive typing (weak to three common types) and mediocre offensive typing (only hits two types supper effectively, while resisted by two and one immune). Now, its overall typing is much better, as it is only weak to one common type and can now hit four types super effectively with its STAB.

Overall I'd honestly place it as B-, as its only slightly outclassed by mega gardevoir, and only so if you chose Mega gardevoir to be your mega.