np: Doubles Stage 2 - Slumber (THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, [SLEEP] FREE AT LAST)

Ok, so I still find it crazy how Jumpluff is basically an S tier Pokemon now.

vs Matt
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublessuspecttest-90501515
vs Winter Wave
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublessuspecttest-88905748
vs Winter Wave part 2
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublessuspecttest-89047995
vs AuraRayquaza (I just realized he had Sleep Talk Burd, Lum Bisharp, Breloom and a faster Fake Out than me. Jumpluff is crazy good)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublessuspecttest-91034319
vs Joim
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoublessuspecttest-91746950

Note in 4 of these battles, the opponent had a mushroom to 'counter' sleep powder. In reality, all most grass types do is sit on the field and watch their partner get abused.
These replays are to directly contradict people saying "sleep only works against bad opponents" or "it is disadvantageous to go for several sleeps anyway." Jumpluff don't give a shit and puts entire teams to sleep(Pwnemon please do not edit my post unannounced). It can just sit on the field and blow through entire teams BY ITSELF. Not even Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Charizard Y can pull of such a feat. I think this is worth consideration since I believe most people haven't seen sleep abused in its proper form.

Edit: Sleep Powder is 83%. 88% is not terribly lucky. Also, most of the time I tried not to use it in do-or-die situations so I was trying to limit getting lucked.
 
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If someone is using a grass type to counter sleep they have absolutely no peripheral vision in a battle whatsoever. Also note that you hit an absurdly high number of Sleep Powders in each battle:

9 for 10 vs Matt
8 for 8 vs Winter Wave 1
3 for 4 vs Winter Wave 2
7 for 9 vs AuraRayquaza
10 for 11 vs Joim

So you hit 88% of your Sleep Powders in those matches, and in every single match it was as accurate or more accurate than it should have been.

Don't get me wrong, Jumpluff is decent, but it's not S tier. You got pretty lucky in those matches...and the only name I recognize there is Joim (I know of Aura, but never have seen him play).

Edit, responding to above edit: ah ok, makes a bit more sense then.
 
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I have about ~35 games right now. About 20 of them are trying to abuse chlorosaur and wide lens darkrai. Neither of them are really over effective. Jake's replays look pretty damn insane ill admit, but I have yet to play a single match where cholorosaur just shits all over the opponent unless theyre profoundly stupid.
 
Ash Borer said:
I have about ~35 games right now. About 20 of them are trying to abuse chlorosaur and wide lens darkrai. Neither of them are really over effective. Jake's replays look pretty damn insane ill admit, but I have yet to play a single match where cholorosaur just shits all over the opponent unless theyre profoundly stupid.
Click to expand...

It's because you see Chlorosaur coming a mile off I'm afraid, Chlorosaur is probably best as an attacker with Sleep on the side as everyone is expecting the Sleep Powder but not necessarily the Sludge Bomb or the Leaf Storm/Giga Drain. I used Breloom on my team, sashed. And the amount of turns I've sat with my Breloom at 1 HP is astounding as people will try and kill it asap with their Charizard which activates sash, I get the Spore off and then they're a bit boned as they no longer have their sleep check awake and because I run max speed Jolly Breloom I can get quite a few key Spores off per match as well as picking threats off with Mach Punch and Bullet seed where applicable. Paired up with either Follow Me togekiss or Mega-Khan, Focus Sash Breloom can be a real pain to deal with.
 
How could venusaur be easy to see coming as a sleep inducer and not breloom?? Of course I use Venu as an attacker with sleep powder as a means a of shutting down pokemon that threaten what I ahve on the field. Regardless, it fails to be as a overpowering as I thought it would be.

Also random safeguard usage is pretty useful. Khan learns safeguard, its not hard to fit in its moveset, the only moves you ever use are return and fake out anyways.
 
Kanga isn't that hard to check for a decent team, power up punch is usually just a waste. Sucker Punch and Crunch are nice I guess, but running both is a waste when kanga is a burn magnet and safeguard mitigates that :-)

I think R inanimate was running a facade / return / protect / fake out kanga in SPL a few weeks ago and it put in work. I just leave coverage up to the partner.
 
I've added Ice Punch to my Mega-Kangaskhan and it's been extremely useful for me as it can take care of many common threats in the Doubles metagame.

-1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 384-456 (100.5 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even with Yache Berry, I can finish Lando-T off with my partner Pokemon)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 546-648 (152.5 - 181%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence (with Yache Berry): 321-379 (96.9 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Rock Tomb can also be surprisingly reliable; it is 4X super effective against Mega-Charizard Y, Talonflame and Volcarona. Not to mention you get a -2 speed drop with Rock Tomb on Mega-Kanga, and that can be really helpful for speed control.
 
To those saying that Grass-types are poor answers to sleep, I disagree. Partially. I have been using 2 Grass-types on one my team as a check for sleep, Amoonguss and Skymin, and it's been working well.

Amoonguss does not directly check the sleep user, but rather switches into Spore / Sleep Powder whilst my partner takes out the sleep user, like in youngjake93's 2nd replay 1st turn with Skymin. Amoonguss can also check the sleep user's ally for my Pokemon that will check the sleep user (depending on the sleep user's ally - for example, it will be useless if that ally is SubTran). It also functions in TR unlike Skymin.

Skymin has the advantage of posing more of an offensive threat than Amoonguss, as well as outspeeding all the sleep users without a Choice Scarf or ChloroVenasuar and KOing them with Air Slash. Even if the sleep user holds a Focus Sash, Air Slash's flinch rate helps prevent the sleep. Amoonguss is still useful as Skymin's durability cannot be relied upon throughout the match (and definitely not as a sole sleep check; the same replay as before shows why).

Admittedly Zard Y + Venasaur handles Amoonguss and Skymin well, but handling other sleep abusers is fine - Jumpluff and Amoonguss can't do anything to other Grass-types besides Encore. Also in nearly 40 matches played, I've only seen Charizard + Venasaur twice much to my surprise. The latter time the Charizard was on a sun team with no Mega Stone but Mega Houndoom instead. Also the Charizard had Tailwind + Beat Up and lead with Terrakion.

Having both together also gives me the option of switching both in at the same time if I'm unsure which of my Pokemon is going to be targeted by sleep. They also check quite different Pokemon despite sharing the same Grass-type. There are obvious drawbacks to using multiple Grass-types like stacking of weaknesses, though teammates help with that, for example, Heatran.
 
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Sleep spam seems very powerful to me simply because a fast sleeper like, say, Jumpluff can get so much done with just Substitute and aggressive teammates. I played out of a hole in quite a few games just by virtue of being able to sleep all my opponent's mons. In my opinion, Sleep Clause would be beneficial just because sleep can be so easy to exploit, although I'm still somewhat divided as it's not completely brainless.
 
Only just got reqs and had a quick skim through of the thread, so I'm sorry if I've just regurgitated someone else's thoughts :o

Throughout my laddering journey, I didn't come across too many people utilizing the lack of sleep clause, but as with every suspect test, everyone's too lazy to build a_a However, when I did run into someone who truly utilized the lack sleep clause it could be rather terrifying. A simple core of Follow Me Jirachi and Jumpluff can be devastating, as you can just spam sleep with Jumpluff and have Jirachi take all the damage from the Pokemon that doesn't get put asleep that turn. That alone can be dealt with if you prepare for it beforehand, but there are so many Pokemon that can come in afterwards who get set-up opportunities as a result of Jumpluff's sleep spam.

I didn't really have to prepare for sleep too much due to everyone being lazy, but I can imagine Pokemon such as Skymin will work wonders, as it's immune to sleep and has access to Earth Power to take care of good Jumpluff partners such as Heatran and Jirachi. There's Thundurus who not only has access to Prankster taunt, but can also naturally outspeed and one shot Jumpluff with an LO boosted Hidden Power [Ice]. However, double sleep spreaders on the field at the same time or the aforementioned Follow Me Jirachi + Jumpluff core will result in Thundurus' nap time. You can also slap a scarf on Heatran, spam Heat Wave, and pair it with something that takes care of opposing Heatran, which will likely have hilarious results against unprepared sleep spam teams. Scarf Cloyster can work too. Try and make sure you have something like this out at all times though, as something like Jumpluff can come in at any time, set up a Substitute, and prevent any of these strategies from working without first getting rid of the sub, which is most certainly easier said than done.

In terms of ramifications of removing sleep clause, I believe it will result in a whole lot of over preparing as well as Grass types being used a LOT more, as they're the primary users of sleep moves as well as the only switch ins to sleep moves other than Magic Bouncers. This will obviously create a whole domino effect of more Heatrans for Grass types, followed by more Heatran checks, etc. Which will likely effect the meta game quite dramatically.
 
Wide Lens Sleep Powder is 82.5%.
Chance to hit 2 in a row, not counting leech seeds: 0.825 ^ 2 which is 0.680625 (68.01%)
Then a miss, then 9 hits in a row: 0.177045763 which is a mere 17.7% chance to happen.

Now let's see the only hits I managed to get through on non-perfect accuracy moves:
Hydro Pump 1 hit, 0.80 acc ok, 100% over 80% average.
Heat Wave 2 hits 1 miss 1 protect, 0.90 acc, so counting protect 75% hits over 90% average (since you love averages).
Rock slide: 1 hit 1 miss, 0.90 acc, 50% hit versus an estimated average of 90%.

The fact that you haxed on a 17.7% chance a Sleep Clause team that casually has none of the several ways to deal with a fast sleep abuser (it needed to be faster than Terrakion to work) means nothing. It doesn't prove that sleep is broken or that Jumpluff is S, it means that if you don't have counters or checks to a tactic in your team you will lose. Wow!

Btw:
youngjake93: lol
youngjake93: joim's a noob
Then why didn't you prove that on SPL, big boy? You haxed me, so stop being an insufferable child, lol.

Edit: Adding that your Jumpluff strategy would've failed if I simply would've faked out and rock slided:
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 246-290 (69.4 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hitmontop Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 52-62 (14.6 - 17.5%)

Then second turn
252+ Atk Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jumpluff: 116-137 (32.7 - 38.7%)

It died yes or yes if I had just attacked first turn lol.
 
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My thoughts on removing Sleep Clause from Doubles is that it won't affect the metagame in a negative way. Grass-types such as Amoonguss, Ludicolo, etc. are somewhat common and take Sleep Powders and Spores with ease and spamming said moves just leaves them open to getting eliminated. I haven't seen many people thoroughly abuse the absence of Sleep Clause which is nice as it isn't over centralizing and if they want to use that to their advantage that's fine as it's pretty viable and can be worked around.
 
champetero said:
The reason your team did bad against breloom was because your team was not ready for sleep.Breloom is actually one of the weaker sleep users.



While amoonguss is an awesome sleep user it in now way can shut down teams.Amoonguss is a pokemon made to be a tank with supporting moves like spore or rage powder but the amount of ways to shut down amoonguss are huge and most of them are viable like talonflame,lum berry,etc.



first victreebel has no use outside of sleep which many pokemon do better.Also you can always change the weather lol.Again talonflame can kill venusaur before it puts anything to sleep and pokemon like sap sipper goodra can tank both venusaur and charizard Y all day long.
Click to expand...

Yeah haha, I will admit that at the time of the Breloom incident, my team wasn't prepared for Sleep.

However, the two other Sleep Users I mentioned are definitely still very threatening. I still believe Ammoongus can shut down teams, just do to it's seriously good bulk. If you don't have a Pokemon on the field at the time Ammoongus is brought out, you're either A. Going to have to sac your Pokemon to sleep or B. Switch out, which just sacs your Ammoongus counter to sleep. Combine this with great support moves like Rage Powder and you've got a very threatening Pokemon on you team.

Also, about Chlorosaur... Yes, you're correct in saying that Goodra does wall that combination. However, when laddering for reqs, I saw two teams with Goodra on it. I mean, Goodra was overall a pretty average Pokemon in Doubles, but with Cholosaur running around, it's usage has spiked, being basically the only Pokemon that could counter ChloroSaur + ZardY. And, while I will give you that Talonflame's pretty common, if your running a non-weather team, you're basically forced to run Talonflame or Goodra just for this deadly combination. You're also going to have to make sure the Pokemon is kept alive throughout the match, because if Chlorosaur gets a free switch with Sun up, and your counter isn't in, you're basically going to have to sac something to sleep for free.

Also, I just want to tell you that "Changing the weather" isn't really an answer to this combination. I mean, it loses it's deadly speed, but all weather inducers have the possibility to take a ton of damage switching in to the combination.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 804-948 (209.3 - 246.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 294-348 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Politoed: 224-266 (58.3 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The only weather inducer who can switch in somewhat-comfortably is Tyranitar. However, with some prior damage, he's still 2HKO'd.

252+ SpA Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Finally, I think I'd like to talk about Jumpluff as a Sleep User, as well. This thing is surprisingly good, and can put Pokemon to sleep quite easily due to it's fast 110 speed. Combine this with Substitute, Protect, and Leech Seed, this thing is a stalling monster, being able to put Pokemon to sleep, then hiding behind a Sub as it waits for its opponent to wake up. It definitely has trouble with Grass-type Pokemon, but teammates can easily help with this weakness.


Overall, Sleep Inducers inducers are no where as easy to beat as you make them out to be, unless you run very specific Pokemon. Sure, you can run these Pokemon, but that's pretty meta-centralizing when people are packing two grass type and Goodra in order to beat Sleep.
 
So I recently got reqs, and since then, my opinion on sleep clause has changed. Before, I was almost fully against removing sleep clause, but at this point, I am somewhat undecided. I have found that I do not need to excessively bend my team to stop sleep, and that sleep is simply one of those threats I have to always keep in mind while teambuilding, similar to trick Room or weather archetypes. I have noticed however, that sleep changed the viability of certain mons and strategies.

  • Talonflame is killer in this meta, threatening almost all sleep users with its STABs. In addition, one of its best counters, Rotom-W, has significantly dropped in usage.

  • Rotom-W and water types in general are less common, as they are switch-in fodder for sleep using grass types such as Amoongus and Venusaur.

  • Sun teams have got yet another buff, due to Charizard being able to OHKO most sleep users and Chlorosaur (which I agree is predictable but effective anyway).

  • Hyper Offense seems to be the most dominant state of the meta, due to bulky offense being shut down by sleep without excessive use of items such as safety goggles and lum berry.

I have found Jake’s Jumpluff to be taken out by more offensive grass types such as venusaur, and faster safety goggle or lum berry using mons such as Darkrai.

I still have to make up my mind on my stance, but I do find that lack of sleep clause was much more fun than I thought, and I wouldn’t mind freeing sleep.
 
So when Smogon Doubles first started out, I had a very low opinion for sleep clause in doubles. It really isn't needed in a 2v2 environment where there are so many options that can make sleep spam screw you over. I never really minded it being there, I just didn't really see the point of having it. People will complain "but I lost to it, this stupid shit can't happen!" but a majority of the time that's due to play that could've been done better or lack of a good team.

I didn't really care much to actually try to get reqs until lately, but I would still see the talk about it in #doubles. People saying "Scarf Breloom is OP", "Jumpluff is the shit", etc. which I would hardly agree with from my experience in the doubles environment. Doing the 40+ battles on the ladder I saw about 3 Scarf Breloom and countless Jumpluff, and if I lost to them neither of those Pokemon were really contributing factors to that loss. It might've been just my team, but none of these Pokemon really had the chance to sleep spam as much as they wished and they usually just ended up being a liability to the player. So from the experience I got from the ladder, it was pretty much the same thing with more Jumpluff.

I think I'd feel perfectly fine with removing sleep clause from this ruleset. It's not overpowered at all, and the common sleep inducing moves got nerfed this gen as well. Now is as good of a time, if any, to remove sleep clause.

.......And hopefully people realize how shit Jumpluff is too........
 
I haven't seen Jumpluff either in over 100 matches, and I only saw a single Darkrai.

Se7en Lions said:
My thoughts on removing Sleep Clause from Doubles is that it won't affect the metagame in a negative way. Grass-types such as Amoonguss, Ludicolo, etc. are somewhat common and take Sleep Powders and Spores with ease and spamming said moves just leaves them open to getting eliminated. I haven't seen many people thoroughly abuse the absence of Sleep Clause which is nice as it isn't over centralizing and if they want to use that to their advantage that's fine as it's pretty viable and can be worked around.
Click to expand...

What can an Amoonguss do against, say a Mega Venusaur.
 
I actually saw a surprising amount of Jumpluff (and other obvious and weak sleep inducers), and they almost never gave me any trouble. They are overly predictable, and very easy to play around, if you are not outright OHKOing them from the get go. I'm actually really surprised how common they are, considering the lack of results they are providing.

In my personal experience, Amoonguss and Venusaur are really the only two sleepers that have been especially threatening. Breloom is not bad, and Smeargle definitely has some niche uses, but none of the others really stuck me as worthwhile. I think the problem is that, in a meta like this, it is really, really hard to get by if your only real use is Sleep spreading. It doesn't really matter how good you are at doing that one job, since that one job alone is just not worth a teamslot.
 
I find it funny how jake failed to share his logs of me using two different teams against his pluff shit, both teams being made before this test and neither having ANY safeguards against sleep, and pluff sleeping zero pokemon and doing nothing else useful before dying both times (admittedly it hit 0/1 sleep powders). Don't let him hype jumpluff, it is really bad against people who know what theyre doin (sorry Joim)

Edit: forgot the time i faced him on ladder, make that THREE teams, tho pluff did use aromatherapy in the ladder battle so it did /something/
 
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I still do not like no sleep clause.

Everyone saying grass types are an answer to sleep spam how do they handle a sludge bomb from Venusaur?

So far I've noticed 4 different types of sleep combinations and there are probably more.

Mega Charizard-Y + Venusaur: The best check to this is weather preferably Sand... Charizard-Y can stall one turn with protect then switch out.
Mega Venusaur: The bulkiest way to put things to sleep just slap a Mega Venusaur on your team and pair it with like an Aegislash for Psychics and Flying types, and spam Sleep Powder. The best way to deal with this guy is to attack it with everything you have... Usually thats not enough... Also it can't be put to sleep by Sleep Powder + Spore ... I might run this with max SpDef and Hidden Power [Rock] for Lulz to beat the 1st combination.
Jumpluff: Seen this a few times. Leech Seeds until you are forced to switch out, then it sets up a sub, then it puts everything to sleep. The best way to handle this is to just spam attack its position, or have an offensive grass type like Shaymin-S to hard wall it
Gravity + Fast Hypnosis: This strategy is just stupid, but it works. Gravity boosts Hypnosis accuracy, Darkrai is base 125 Speed and gets Hypnosis, nothing is immune to its sleep, and you need to pray for a miss, or have priority mach punch and sand to threaten it. People are running Sash for good reason.

Obviously, the best answer to most of this stuff is Mega Kangaskhan. However, that thing is downright obvious, the opponent just protects the thing getting fake outed or switches to something safe, and burns the Kangaskhan or something.

Safeguard is another check, but there are so many Prankster + Taunt users that are viable, especially Liepard which gets Fake Out, and Thundurus-I. If the opponent gets off the Safe Guard before you can spam sleep you wait out the next few turns with your other mons, then Taunt them once you see Safeguard... So far I've only seen it on Latis and Meowstic.

There is just no way to counter all forms of Sleep spam on a team. Of course, you can never counter every play style or win vs everything, but against Pokemon just putting you to sleep, you do not even stand a chance.

I'm not saying relying on spamming sleep is broken because that as a strategy is terrible, and it more than likely loses, but having sleep spam as a piece of a team with 4 or 5 other mons is just awful to play against. So it takes me 1.5 mons to kill Jumpluff and it put something to sleep... I pretty much have no shot here unless I completely outplay or my opponent chokes.
 
Teams that rely on Sleep won't consistently win against players high on the ladder who are very good at predicting. And frankly most people who spam Sleep just Protect with their partner and attempt to use Sleep Powder, Spore, or Hypnosis. I can't express how easy it is to defeat a person whose strategy is centered around Sleep.

And unfortunately, most supporters or Sleep inducers still don't carry Mental Herb against Taunt users. I can screw up your whole, unreliable Sleep strategy and get a free turn to double target because I guarantee you that a Taunted Jumpluff or Venusaur will switch out due to inability to use Sleep Powder.

And Talonflame wrecks all. Rage quit for days.
 
Pwnemon said:
I find it funny how jake failed to share his logs of me using two different teams against his pluff shit, both teams being made before this test and neither having ANY safeguards against sleep, and pluff sleeping zero pokemon and doing nothing else useful before dying both times (admittedly it hit 0/1 sleep powders). Don't let him hype jumpluff, it is really bad against people who know what theyre doin (sorry Joim)
Click to expand...

It's ok, to counter jumpluff you just need one of the following:
-A safeguard against sleep.
-Two strong attackers with Protect.
-One strong attacker faster than it.
-Quick guard, one faster attack that deals with Jumpluff.
-Predict the switch and target it / do a spread attack on it.
-BrightPowder lols.
And ofc not to mess up with those first turn...
 
So we've been testing sleep clause for a little while now, and while at first there were loads of teams (at least that I found) that would abuse sleep just because they could, the meta has had time to adjust and stablize I just wanted to go over some of the trends that I have noticed.
I would love to get feedback if you guys agree/disagree with what I've noticed or why I believe the trends exist :]
  • Sun, Rain, and Hail teams/users are more common
    • While its obvious that Sun has gotten a boost in that Cholorsaur can spam sleep, I've noticed a lot more rain and hail in the meta than before, the increase in rain users (myself included) is probably a result of wanting to reduce the fire damage on our sleep inducers, not to mention that Thundurus is a common Taunt user and excels in the rain.
    • I have noticed slightly more abomasnows than before which I also believe is being used as a Trick Room users answer to Amoonguss (or sleep in general) He blocks sleep, and punishes sleep users that aren't mega venusaur with s/e ice moves. Not to mention that Abom stuffs Rain and Sun that some sleep users love to play in. It seems obvious once you read it I'll grant you, but I don't recall reading a predicition about it ;]
  • The top players are still the top players and they aren't all spamming sleep
    • If no sleep clause is as unplayable a condition as I've heard some users claim, then wouldn't the top [ladder] users be exclusively using sleep spam? It's true that some of the best players are using sleep in one form or another, but from what I've seen the best people are never setting out with the goal of sleeping your entire team, but are happy to take the opportunity if the situation arises. If you're having trouble in this new meta, consider placing the blame on yourself/your team rather than the new rules.
  • Safety Goggles are viable on some pokemon now
    • While there are always alteratives to safety goggles, I've seen some users running safety goggles on 2 pokemon in particular that I would like to mention, and one that I thought deserved a mention though I haven't seen it used
    • Haruno was using a safety goggles Aegislash with (I believe) a standard moveset, the reason that I believe he was seeing success with safety goggles is that with Safety Goggles, Aegislash not only completely shuts out standard Kanga and some of the pokes that partenered with kanga before Sleep testing (I'm thinking togekiss, hitmontop, and rachi), it also was able to stop Amoonguss and Breloom (the two newish partners for lead kanga), forcing both mons to switch out in some cases.
    • Dashspin was using a Safety Goggles Cresselia to good effect from what I saw, simply attract the sleep move with cress (which cress excels at by the way) while you set up Safeguard! Easy and it works :] Not to mention that Psychic STAB hits Venu and Mega Venu super-efffectively.
    • I believe Rotom-Heat deserves some mention here. Chlorosaur has been mentioned a billion times on this thread, and Rotom-H completely shuts down that lead barring a well-aimed Sleep Powder (as long as they don't have lightningrod in the back but shutup) so it seems natural that giving the toaster-oven Safety Goggles would allow him to dominate the pair.
tl;dr stuff is happening for reasons, shutup about Jumpluff pls
 
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