Milotic has been receiving some more use as a Competitive user to combat Defog. It's more defensive than the typical Bisharp/Thundurus Defog Blocker, however, it's fantastic when it does get the boost. It has a decent 100 base SpA and great defensive stats and I think C Rank is too low for a viable defensive Defog Blocker. I propose that it gets moved up to B- or maybe B rank.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
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And it loves Intimidate.
Manectric is starting to be on a lot of team and for a good reasons, it's pretty great, i don't think it's deserves to be as low as B= imo. It's pretty threatening for offensive teams, it keeps a good momentum with volt switch and it's a pretty good check to Thundurus/Scizor/Priorities bird stabbs, and it's pretty scary to fight against 135 spA/Speed for an offensive team. A- at least.
Raikou deserves to be higher too, he is starting to replace thundurus as the fast electric type and for good reasons: Great user of assault vest, can beat pokemon like Aegislash or Thundurus-i in 1v1 with shadow ball or hp ice, keeps a good momentum. It pretty much a bulkier, slower and less offensive version of Manetric that doesn't need to use a Mega-slot, it's a great support. It should be at the same ranking as Manetric, so A- imo.
Raikou deserves to be higher too, he is starting to replace thundurus as the fast electric type and for good reasons: Great user of assault vest, can beat pokemon like Aegislash or Thundurus-i in 1v1 with shadow ball or hp ice, keeps a good momentum. It pretty much a bulkier, slower and less offensive version of Manetric that doesn't need to use a Mega-slot, it's a great support. It should be at the same ranking as Manetric, so A- imo.
Suggesting Scolipede for A-. This guy can do so many things its ridiculous. So many people expect a regular baton pass set but its offensive LO set works very well. Speed Boost is such a good ability, and Scolipede has the power and coverage to back it up. As a bonus, scolipede also takes care of Deoxys forms.
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 307-367 (100.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now most Deoxys-D invest in speed and HP, this can change if LO Scolipede gets more popular but generally the speed is wanted to taunt faster, get extra hazards etc. Add to that the fact that most people won't expect Lead Scolipede to be LO 3 attacks and you have yourself a dead deoxys. After a speed boost, Scolipede reaches 484 when adamant or 532 when Jolly, so you can customize that based on whether or not you need it to take on Deoxys-S for you. Scolipede works wonders with a set of Rock Slide / Earthquake / Protect / Megahorn allowing it to clean up Lati@s, Heatran, Charizards, Greninja, and Zapdos just off the top of my head. Add the fact that BP is always a threat until you've revealed your full moveset and I think Scolipede fits very well in the A- rank, being able to perform multiple roles very well.
252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 307-367 (100.9 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now most Deoxys-D invest in speed and HP, this can change if LO Scolipede gets more popular but generally the speed is wanted to taunt faster, get extra hazards etc. Add to that the fact that most people won't expect Lead Scolipede to be LO 3 attacks and you have yourself a dead deoxys. After a speed boost, Scolipede reaches 484 when adamant or 532 when Jolly, so you can customize that based on whether or not you need it to take on Deoxys-S for you. Scolipede works wonders with a set of Rock Slide / Earthquake / Protect / Megahorn allowing it to clean up Lati@s, Heatran, Charizards, Greninja, and Zapdos just off the top of my head. Add the fact that BP is always a threat until you've revealed your full moveset and I think Scolipede fits very well in the A- rank, being able to perform multiple roles very well.
Although this set is good, I also feel some of his potential lies in a Swords Dance/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Megahorn set, with 16HP/252Atk/240spd Jolly, as he's able to outspeed the Latis before any boosts and KO them with Megahorn, and he can break thru walls like Hippowdon and Ferrothorn at +2. It's pretty easy to get a swords dance up and sweep a portion of the opponents team with coverage moves + Megahorn, especially if they are already weakened, and his blazing speed means he can only be revenged by priority. He definitely deserves a bump.
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People ignored this but:
On the subject of Mega Manectric, I'm nominating it go from B ---> A-.
Mega Manectric is blazing fast with base 135 Speed, it also is only ~4% weaker than Life Orb Manectric is. If I did this correctly, it should have around 130 Defense after Intimidate:
-1 0 Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 69-82 (24.5 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def 130 Base Defense Mega Manectric: 69-82 (24.5 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but on any Pokemon it switches into, Mega Manectric instantly gains a stat spread of 70 / 75 / 130 / 135 / 80 / 135. It has an extremely powerful Thunderbolt and also has access to many interesting coverage options such as Hidden Power [Ice] and Overheat. It makes an exceptional pivot with Volt Switch + Intimidate and blends perfectly with Landorus-T forming an infamous core. Mega Manectric is a very good Pokemon, however, the problem with it is that it is always left being walled by something, it's always walled by Mega Venusaur, Tyranitar, and Chansey, while if it chooses Hidden Power [Ice] it is walled by Quagsire and Latias, while if it chooses Hidden Power [Grass] it is walled by Kyurem-B, Garchomp, and Dragonite. I can keep going on with things that wall Mega Manectric, but that's no fun! Another issue is you're stuck with 105 Speed until you Mega Evolve, which can be very problematic. On the bright side, if you switch into a Electric-move, Mega Manectric becomes insanely powerful! Mega Manectric's coverage is quite amazing though and with proper team support it can plow through offensive teams and slower teams, even fast ones too, because hell, it is faster than most! For the reasons of a great blend of power and pseudo-bulk, I believe that Mega Manectric belongs in A-.
On the subject of Mega Manectric, I'm nominating it go from B ---> A-.
Mega Manectric is blazing fast with base 135 Speed, it also is only ~4% weaker than Life Orb Manectric is. If I did this correctly, it should have around 130 Defense after Intimidate:
-1 0 Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 69-82 (24.5 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def 130 Base Defense Mega Manectric: 69-82 (24.5 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but on any Pokemon it switches into, Mega Manectric instantly gains a stat spread of 70 / 75 / 130 / 135 / 80 / 135. It has an extremely powerful Thunderbolt and also has access to many interesting coverage options such as Hidden Power [Ice] and Overheat. It makes an exceptional pivot with Volt Switch + Intimidate and blends perfectly with Landorus-T forming an infamous core. Mega Manectric is a very good Pokemon, however, the problem with it is that it is always left being walled by something, it's always walled by Mega Venusaur, Tyranitar, and Chansey, while if it chooses Hidden Power [Ice] it is walled by Quagsire and Latias, while if it chooses Hidden Power [Grass] it is walled by Kyurem-B, Garchomp, and Dragonite. I can keep going on with things that wall Mega Manectric, but that's no fun! Another issue is you're stuck with 105 Speed until you Mega Evolve, which can be very problematic. On the bright side, if you switch into a Electric-move, Mega Manectric becomes insanely powerful! Mega Manectric's coverage is quite amazing though and with proper team support it can plow through offensive teams and slower teams, even fast ones too, because hell, it is faster than most! For the reasons of a great blend of power and pseudo-bulk, I believe that Mega Manectric belongs in A-.
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Mega Manectric definitely needs a rise, but I don't know if B+ or A- is a better place for it. I think the only thing holding it back is how one dimensional it is: you pretty much know what it runs because it has pretty much one viable set. Without volt switch its not a good pivot, without Tbolt it cant check pinsir as well, without hp ice it cant kill chomp and without flamethrower/overheat its hard walled by so many things, not to mention bisharp bait. It also lacks in power a bit due to having to run timid to outspeed stuff before evolving. Definitely a good pivot mon and an invaluable part of some cool cores but i think maybe its not versatile enough for A-.
SD Scolipede with jolly sounds cool as well, might try that out. Also outspeeds Deo-S after one boost.
SD Scolipede with jolly sounds cool as well, might try that out. Also outspeeds Deo-S after one boost.
S- is a bit too much, you still need to take a Mega-slot for him and even tho it wreck offensives teams once Ttar is weakened (which is actually really easy, volt switch does like 20% each time you come in, add stealth rock and he's done in 3 turns) it's not as near as a stallbreaker and you can't use it on team like MegaPinsir+Talonflame+Electric-Type because of the Mega-slot, so you need what I would call "passive support" to play it.
It still deserves to be in the A Rank imo.
It still deserves to be in the A Rank imo.
Pretty sure he meant A- not S-, the keys are right next to each other.
Bringing back Gastrodon and Barbaracle for some more discussion.
Also obligatory "VR ranking has been updated"
Also obligatory "VR ranking has been updated"
Nominating Deoxys-D for A+
Deoxys-D has no offensive presence (unlike its Speed forme), so it has no means of doing anything to magic bouncers (especially Xatu, who can just use Toxic and stall it out with Roost even if it happens to have an attacking move). Mega Absol can set up a free Swords Dance on it and destroy it with Night Slash/Knock Off, while Espeon can't really do anything to Deo-D with recover, but it can still bounce back SR/Spikes and can put it to sleep with Yawn. Also, it's not capable of doing anything against rapid spinners, especially Excadrill, who can also beat Aegislash and Gengar (the latter on the switch or if Focus Blast misses). Forretress can Toxic it and spam Rapid Spin. Starmie can 2HKO it with LO Hydro Pump. Red Card Deoxys-D is turned into a liability if the Pokemon it drags out carries a setup move and is faster than Deo-D: Mega Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, Landorus, etc etc etc. Only Leftovers and Mental Herb should be used.
The fact that Deoxys-D only has 50 HP really sucks. It's bulk is as good as Probopass's, which we all know how bad it is (not to mention it too has access to Stealth Rock and, unlike Deo-D, has Volt Switch and a much better ability). It's mono-Psychic typing leaves it weak to Knock Off and U-turn, and thus can usually only set up one layer of hazards per game, unless the opponent is an idiot.
Deoxys-D has no offensive presence (unlike its Speed forme), so it has no means of doing anything to magic bouncers (especially Xatu, who can just use Toxic and stall it out with Roost even if it happens to have an attacking move). Mega Absol can set up a free Swords Dance on it and destroy it with Night Slash/Knock Off, while Espeon can't really do anything to Deo-D with recover, but it can still bounce back SR/Spikes and can put it to sleep with Yawn. Also, it's not capable of doing anything against rapid spinners, especially Excadrill, who can also beat Aegislash and Gengar (the latter on the switch or if Focus Blast misses). Forretress can Toxic it and spam Rapid Spin. Starmie can 2HKO it with LO Hydro Pump. Red Card Deoxys-D is turned into a liability if the Pokemon it drags out carries a setup move and is faster than Deo-D: Mega Charizard X, Mega Pinsir, Landorus, etc etc etc. Only Leftovers and Mental Herb should be used.
The fact that Deoxys-D only has 50 HP really sucks. It's bulk is as good as Probopass's, which we all know how bad it is (not to mention it too has access to Stealth Rock and, unlike Deo-D, has Volt Switch and a much better ability). It's mono-Psychic typing leaves it weak to Knock Off and U-turn, and thus can usually only set up one layer of hazards per game, unless the opponent is an idiot.
The reason Probopass is NU is because it has one of the worst defensive typings in the game. Also why are you talking about Probopass in OU, this is a viability ranking thread and Probopass will never be OU viable unless it gets something like huge power.
I'm just wondering who lead with Deo-D when the opponent has a Magic Bounce user. Because if they do, they're probably not all that great of players :P
Forre never carries Toxic so it's irrelevant. Not only that but Forre hates Aegislash which is almost always paired with Deo-D
It doesn't matter that Starmie can 2HKO because Red Card forces it out. Also Starmie dies to Mirror Coat Deo-D, something that's been getting more and more common as of late.
Honestly if the opponent's set up sweeper is that threatening, you probably aren't going to be staying in. Also priority from the likes of Talonflame and Bisharp can easily shut the opponent's sweeper down. You're also relying on the fact that Red Card is going to send you out into a set-up sweeper in the first place. Finally, even if they do get to set up, Deo-D has still littered the field with hazards.
Also Probopass is a terrible comparison, it doesn't get Spikes and has a terrible defensive typing. Like even worse than mono-Psychic.
Honestly there is no way Deo-D is leaving S Rank unless a serious change occurs in the metagame.
Deo-D commonly carries TWave so the amount of things that can set up on it safely isn't that big.
And yeah the Probopass comparison is laughable as the Pokemon couldn't be more different, the only similarities are titanic defenses and access to SR.
And yeah the Probopass comparison is laughable as the Pokemon couldn't be more different, the only similarities are titanic defenses and access to SR.
Why does Deoxys-D even need an offensive presence? The fact that it already runs Superpower and Mirror Coat is enough to its most common "counters" in the tier. Xatu has been nonexistent in OU since the start of the Generation and that hasn't changed, so why is this relevant?
44 Atk Deoxys-D Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 206-244 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not really a free Swords Dance at all. The 44 EVs is what is being used to beat Bisharp with Superpower before it can kill you off with a Knock Off. So if Mega Absol has taken a little chip damage it can die to the Superpower. Not only that but Mega Absol is also nonexistent in OU, and few times I've seen it it was running 4 Atks because it's way to frail to try it to setup SDs.
Which Rapid Spinners are being used in OU? The only one is Excadrill people and it gets 2HKOed by Superpower and can't always spin vs Deoxys-D. Here is an example: Texas Cloverleaf vs Myself for the Sneak Tournament.
Since when is Forretress relevant in OU? If it is running Toxic, it gives a free switch to Bisharp who can get a free Swords Dance, which you never want to happened.
2HKO not OHKO. Deo-D still gets up SR in this scenario and then I can go to my appropriate Starmie check to prevent it from spinning. If this is the Mirror Coat variants then Starmie dies to Mirror Coat.
You kind of have a point there but Pinsir is slower and gets Taunted. Zard X comes in on SR and it does Dragon Dance it's only getting 1 then it gets taken care of by Scarf Garchomp, Excadrill, or Landorus-T. Landorus will also get up one Calm Mind but Deo-D teams often carry Keldeo so Landorus isn't going to sweep there either.
It's bulk is beyond plenty for what it needs to do which is getting up SR and Spikes consistently. Stealth Rock + Spikes is enough for DeoD HO teams to be effective. The second layer of Spikes can be nice but it isn't needed in the slightest. Its Mono-Psychic has never stopped it from doing its job, not this gen and not last gen. Unless something drastic happens and Deo-D becomes less effective then we can drop it from S-rank, until its not happening.
PS: I honestly hope you weren't being serious about the mention of Drain Punch Deo-D when responding to Punchshroom...
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You also forgot to mention Deo-D can run skill swap and turn the tables on the magic bounce user. I run it and it has been extremely helpful.
Sure you can run Skill Swap, but which relevant and good Magic Bounce users are there in the tier? You just end up losing a moveslot for things that aren't common when Taunt / Thunder Wave / Mirror Coat / Magic Coat / Recover are all much better options that will see more consistent use then using Skill Swap once in like 15-20 battles.
I had that exact same mindset until I ran into in Espeon like every 5 matchs. It helped me Mega Pinsir when I took his ability away. Funny replay. Anyways the fact that he can run skill swap makes it so nothing can stop him from doing his job.
Jesus Christ. Superpower Deoxys-D is very, very, VERY rare. Almost nobody uses it, and if Deoxys-D chooses to beat Excadrill or something, it will most likely have this moveset: Stealth Rock, Spikes, Recover, Superpower. That means it can't Taunt faster things and it can't use Magic Coat to reflect hazards your opponent might try to set up. You have 5 other members to take care of Excadrill and Bisharp.
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Deoxys-D needs offensive presence because it wouldn't have means of stopping many sweepers. Red Card is unreliable, and nobody uses Mirror Coat on this thing.
Thunder Wave is usually enough to stop sweepers.
But who the fuck even uses Superpower Deoxys-D??? Drain Punch is better as it doesn't screw up its defense. I'd also like to point out that even with Superpower, Deoxys-D needs prediction to get past M-Absol.
Superpower is used specifically because it can OHKO Bisharp. Drain Punch can't do that. And Mega Absol is mostly irrelevant to OU.
Excadrill, Starmie, Mega Blastoise and Forretress, to name a few.
Excadrill is the only one people actually use a lot. Mega Blastoise is nice but not really worth the mega slot when it's just used for spinning, and Forretress is frankly trash.
Forretress can put the hurt on Bisharp with EQ (although rare) and Pain Split.
Doesn't stop Forretress from being crap.
Thunder Wave is usually enough to stop sweepers.
But who the fuck even uses Superpower Deoxys-D??? Drain Punch is better as it doesn't screw up its defense. I'd also like to point out that even with Superpower, Deoxys-D needs prediction to get past M-Absol.
Superpower is used specifically because it can OHKO Bisharp. Drain Punch can't do that. And Mega Absol is mostly irrelevant to OU.
Excadrill, Starmie, Mega Blastoise and Forretress, to name a few.
Excadrill is the only one people actually use a lot. Mega Blastoise is nice but not really worth the mega slot when it's just used for spinning, and Forretress is frankly trash.
Forretress can put the hurt on Bisharp with EQ (although rare) and Pain Split.
Doesn't stop Forretress from being crap.
Taunt and Thunder Wave are there to prevents Setup from setting up too much or at all and yes people do use Mirror Coat, it'ss becoming more popular...
A lot of people use it. If you want to straight up lose to Bisharp, that's cool but I like getting up SR + Spikes and not just SR. lol Drain Punch, why would you even? What prediction do you need to hit Mega Absol? I lead with Deo-D and my opponent doesn't lead with Absol. Now my opponent has to switch in Absol as I SR then I superpower for 80% as you try to SD. Or I lead with Deo-D and you lead with Absol, I just superpower and do 80%. I dont see what prediction is needed here. Why are you so worried about its defenses dropping when it doesnt need to wall things.....
Excadrill is the only one that people use in OU. Mega Blastoise is garb and very niche. Starmie is cool but again its mediocre and very niche. Forretress is MIA in OU. As unreliable as they are, lets looks at usage stats.
[14:51:49] <@Subject18> !usage1760 Blastoise ou
[14:51:51] <TIBot> Blastoise - #76 in OU | Usage: 1.64398% | Raw count: 202,306 | Weight: 0.00662441896271
[14:51:58] <@Subject18> !usage1760 Starmie ou
[14:51:59] <TIBot> Starmie - #57 in OU | Usage: 2.43536% | Raw count: 194,185 | Weight: 0.0103018447141
[14:52:5] <@Subject18> !usage1760 Forretress ou
[14:52:6] <TIBot> Forretress - #80 in OU | Usage: 1.59881% | Raw count: 182,868 | Weight: 0.00718914002832
Combined 5% usage between the three of them, which is considerably less then Excadrill. So again, what spinners barring Excadrill are OU and actually used?
Nonexistent and lol EQ + Pain Split
Still didn't stop it from doing its job...
Right, because double switching is so hard that you cant save Deo-D to bring it back in to get up one more layer of spikes....
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mega blastoise is definitely not garbage...as a spinner he's not so great but as an bulky offensive beast...he's great
It uses up a Mega Slot for something so mundane is the main reason. Excadrill doesn't, can still sweep, and can scare out Rotom-W.
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