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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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Gastrodon and Seismitoad could use some discussion, they still deserve to be ranked.

Yeah both pokes are good but really underrated, seismitoad really isn't that bad but the fact that like 3 other ground/waters that are better exist kinda ruins its life and it's way outclassed at it's role. For gastrodon i won't say it definitely has a role in ou and it definitely counters a ton of pokes but it also has it's flaws.

Personally i just about never see seismitoad so i can understand why it's not on this thread and if it is ranked, it's c tops. It requires support from politoed and is totally outperformed by other swift swimmers and if you want to use it bulky there are tons of pokes that aren't even ou that overshadow it, so yeah C is the best i can see it being.

Gastrodon on the other hand I've seen used and definitely has it's niches. It's typing+ability lets it wall many pokes like rotom-wash and electrics. However status (mainly toxic) can cause it troubles and it's mediocre offenses makes it a set-up fodder for many pokes and it can't touch things like sub-kyurem. Overall it requires support like a heal beller and as a wall it's arguably outclassed by pokes like vaporeon which have better stats and movepool. I'll say it can be a C+ or B-
 
Hasn't Seismetoad / Gastrodon been revived like almost 20 times now? Yes, they deserve discussion, but people don't seem all that interested. When was the last time you saw either in OU? Anyways, very happy to see Mega Venusaur move down!
 
Hasn't Seismetoad / Gastrodon been revived like almost 20 times now? Yes, they deserve discussion, but people don't seem all that interested. When was the last time you saw either in OU? Anyways, very happy to see Mega Venusaur move down!

As i said i never see seismitoad in ou so i can understand why it's not on the thread and gastrodon might have some usage but yeah i see your point.
 
Just saying, Thundurus DOES 2HKO Seismitoed with Focus Blast, not saying it'll ever hit twice or you have good prediction, but something to think about. I've not seen Seismitoed used in OU at all this generation, does anyone have some replays?
 
Seismitoed talk again? Just going to quote my post then.

Edit: From what I've seen the majority of Thundurus do not carry Focus Blast, Seismitoed outspeeds it when Rain is up too. It's pretty reliable at handling Thundurus, especially when considering how offensive the archetype is.

If seismitoad is going to be ranked i honestly can't see it being B-, Personally i consider it outclassed by at least 5 other swift swimmers and that alone puts it in C. I'll say it's good but unlike pokes like kabutops/kingdra it gets totally lost without rain. I know many people may disagree but i've swept with kabutops before with the rain gone and i can easily imagine the same thing happening with kingdra. Also I've seen Kingdra and ludicolo run rain dance on it's set. Seismitoad on the other hand, is stuck with a mediocre speed stat and offenses and from what you've posted it needs 4 attacking moves which means rain dance on it's move set isn't a option. Overall it's totally usable but outclassed by a multitude of other pokemon. C+
 
It's just that Rain teams need to have something for Thundurus and not really anything does it like Seismitoad. No Swift Swimmer has that niche, so I wouldn't say it's outclassed. I used it on a variation of Tesung's Rain team and it performed the role it was given. The team was: Deoxys-S / Kabutops / Tornadus-T / Scizor (-Mega) Politoed / Seismitoad.

I haven't come across a better Rain Offense team than that, nor have I tried to build others. So what do most use for Thundy?

I've seen the odd thundy with grass knot before so i'll say it's good and counters them most of the time so yeah it is good but i still prefer the ludicolo in the end
 
Can someone give me a reason why Zard-Y is not S rank?

Because it is eclipsed as a wallberaker by Landorus-I, loses 50% of its health by switching in, and isn't hard to kill. If you predict incorrectly in guessing which Mega Charizard it is, you lose maybe one Pokemon from Mega Charizard Y, but if you mispredict and it's Char-X, you risk your team being swept. It's really good, it's just not the definition of S-Rank, as it has many flaws to overcome. It's also very one-dimensional.
 
Okay so I see people are talking shit about Mega Zam and I'd like to try and end that. For one thing, regular Alakazam is definitely the more subpar of the two by far. Sash lets it revenge kill some things I guess, but compared to last gen it doesn't hit very hard and it's completely boned by Pursuit Aegislash. Priority is also just as bad for Zam as it is for its Mega form, because now it's very difficult to keep its Sash intact and revenge kill as successfully as it could before. It's also outsped by the very common Greninja which completely destroys it, and with bulky Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Mandibuzz, Mega Scizor, Aegislash, and much more running rampant through the tier, Alakazam is going to need a lot of residual to revenge kill these things, which is something that it didn't really need as much last generation because a lot of the sweepers were frailer. Last but not least, it's just really hard to justify using over other revenge killers such as Talonflame, Thundurus, and especially Deoxys-S. Yes, it doesn't take up the Mega slot, but other than the power increase (which doesn't really matter too much because Deo-S has Psycho Boost), Deoxys-S is basically the better choice almost 90% of the time.

Okay now moving onto Mega Alakazam. This thing also has its share of flaws, such as being weak to priority, still hating Aegislash, taking up a Mega slot, and facing competition from revenge killer Deo-S. However, there's one huge thing that Mega Alakazam has over Deoxys-S that makes it a viable choice on some teams, and that's Trace. With Trace, Mega Alakazam becomes an amazing annoyance with the ability to Trace abilities from the likes of Landorus, Greninja, Thundurus, Heatran, Manectric before it mega evolves, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Venusaur, Swift swimmers, even Iron Barbs from Ferrothorn can be useful, and the list goes on. These new abilities allow it to be an amazing cleaner and wallbreaker. Its incredible 150 base Speed stat allows it to outpace Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar even after a boost, which is something that not even regular Alakazam can without having to break its Sash. Did I mention it can still do this with a Modest nature? With a Modest nature, it hits incredibly hard on top of outpacing almost the entire unboosted metagame, which again is something that Alakazam wishes it could do. Here's a cool set that I've been using on a team that bests appreciates Mega Alakazam's ability to clean up as well as Trace immunities:

alakazam_mega_gif_by_gloomymyth-d7b4wik.gif

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard / Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Shadow Ball (if not running a Pursuit trapper)

Credit to Dice for this set. This is probably one of my favorite sets I've ever used with Mega Alakazam, because it uses it takes so much advantage of its ability Trace, which is what you should be using Mega Zam for. Taunt shuts down a lot of Pokemon commonly found on stall teams such as Heatran, Chansey, Quagsire, Skarmory, Clefable, etc. Like for example, Heatran is completely shutdown because you're immune to Lava Plume and it can't Toxic or Roar you out. This allows for a free switch into a set up sweeper or just allows Mega Zam to heavily weaken stall teams to a point where it can either clean up or leave room for a win condition. Psyshock is pretty bad on this set, because it can't hit physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and Clefable nearly as hard. It also lets you abuse Sheer Force if you ever manage to trace it off of a Landorus, which is neat as hell. Focus Blast is mainly for Heatran, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, basically anything that can shrug off Psychic. Hidden Power Fire is the last move on this set because it keeps Mega Scizor from setting up on it, and guess what? If you manage to trace Technician, you now have a Flamethrower equivalent Fire-type move.

So yeah, pair this thing with Pursuit Bisharp or Tyranitar for Aegislash, and you have a very underrated offensive monster in your hands. Don't treat it only as a revenge killer, use it as a cleaner, stallbreaker, AND a revenge killer. The mega slot is the biggest issue with Mega Zam IMO, which is why I think B- is perfect for it. It can work very well with the right support, but it has its share of flaws and takes up a mega slot. I highly recommend you give this nigga a try. The ability to fuck with both offensive and stall teams makes it a very anti meta Pokemon that can give a lot of teams trouble.

To best honest, I'd drop regular Alakazam to C+. Yes it doesn't take up a Mega slot like Mega Zam, but it's still pretty inferior to it. It's also very outclassed as a revenge killer for the most part, and just doesn't hit hard enough.

tl;dr use Mega Alakazam drop regular Zam to C+
So I know you made this post a while back and that it's silly of me to reply now, but THANK YOU. I've been telling people for SO LONG that Mega Zam has a major niche over its regular counterpart, but many people didn't believe me.
 
Yes, Alakazam is outclassed as a revenge killer, but just pointing out that Alakazam with Life Orb hits harder than a Timid Mega Alakazam. Megazam's higher speed makes the difference against only one common threat of Greninja and the less common Mega Manectric (only if Megazam's Timid). That being said, Trace is a far superior ability considering LOzam doesn't carry sash. The cost for Trace would be a mega slot. I wouldn't put them tiers apart. Maybe Megazam can be one up on regular Zam at best.
There's a reason why Mega Alakazam always runs Modest: it reaches 399 Speed after Mega Evolution (though being stuck at 339 for one turn kind of sucks) and it hits harder than Timid LO Alakazam. Timid Mega Alakazam is never run, because Modest grants it all the power it can get and already makes it fast enough to outspeed prominent threats, such as +1 Mega Tyranitar and +1 Mega Gyarados.
 
There's a reason why Mega Alakazam always runs Modest: it reaches 399 Speed after Mega Evolution (though being stuck at 339 for one turn kind of sucks) and it hits harder than Timid LO Alakazam. Timid Mega Alakazam is never run, because Modest grants it all the power it can get and already makes it fast enough to outspeed prominent threats, such as +1 Mega Tyranitar and +1 Mega Gyarados.

I know, it surely does perform better than LO Alakazam apart from being slower pre-transformation. I was just pointing out that it takes up the mega slot. It's also the only Mega to get OHKOed by Knock Off. Anyway, regular Alakazam has been demoted a step which seems appropriate.
 
I know, it surely does perform better than LO Alakazam apart from being slower pre-transformation. I was just pointing out that it takes up the mega slot. It's also the only Mega to get OHKOed by Knock Off. Anyway, regular Alakazam has been demoted a step which seems appropriate.
Indeed, as I've pointed out literally its biggest downfall is that it's a Mega Pokémon. Really solid Pokémon overall, but if it weren't to be a Mega it'd be much higher-ranked. It's a shame.
 
It's just that Rain teams need to have something for Thundurus and not really anything does it like Seismitoad. No Swift Swimmer has that niche, so I wouldn't say it's outclassed. I used it on a variation of Tesung's Rain team and it performed the role it was given. The team was: Deoxys-S / Kabutops / Tornadus-T / Scizor (-Mega) Politoed / Seismitoad.

I haven't come across a better Rain Offense team than that, nor have I tried to build others. So what do most use for Thundy?

rain teams can also run assault vest raikou or mega manectric with thunder that work on rain and counter thundy
 
why is landorus-i at S rank? it only has 2 good sets (im talking about CM or all out attacker, physical sets are bad), being extremely predictable. and having to rely on a shit move like focus blast to gets past some walls like skarmory/mandibuzz/chansey, it's far from being a consistent wallbreaker (due to accuraccy issues, it has only a 49% chance of 2HKOing chansey after 1 spikes layer and 1 stealth rock). since stall teams usually have defog and chansey, it's rarely going to do anything against them. against offense it's even more mediocre, since it's revenged by pretty much all scarfers, keldeo, aqua jet/ice shard, etc, being a mon that forces a trade and dies basically. i've seen many top ladder games, and i think i've never seen landorus sweeping or getting an important kill or etc.
 
offense it's even more mediocre, since it's revenged by pretty much all scarfers, keldeo, aqua jet/ice shard, etc, being a mon that forces a trade and dies basically. i've seen many top ladder games, and i think i've never seen landorus sweeping or getting an important kill or etc.
use rock polish. focus blast is redundant as shit on landorus unless you really hate kyurem.
 
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why is landorus-i at S rank? it only has 2 good sets (im talking about CM or all out attacker, physical sets are bad), being extremely predictable. and having to rely on a shit move like focus blast to gets past some walls like skarmory/mandibuzz/chansey, it's far from being a consistent wallbreaker (due to accuraccy issues, it has only a 49% chance of 2HKOing chansey after 1 spikes layer and 1 stealth rock). since stall teams usually have defog and chansey, it's rarely going to do anything against them. against offense it's even more mediocre, since it's revenged by pretty much all scarfers, keldeo, aqua jet/ice shard, etc, being a mon that forces a trade and dies basically. i've seen many top ladder games, and i think i've never seen landorus sweeping or getting an important kill or etc.

The fact that it can break all walls not called Chansey with a single Focus Blast or other move says a lot about it. Sure, Focus Blast may miss, but can you safely bring your Skarmory knowing that there is a 70% chance of you losing it?

It breaks Skarmory, Kyurem-B, Air Balloon Heatran, Tyranitar, Mandibuzz, Gyarados, Air Balloon Excadrill, Ferrothorn. It's great.

As for Chansey, Knock Off. Landorus is a great Chansey lure with it. And then you just have to switch into something else to deal with the blob. It will fall quickly once her Eviolite is down. Heck, a single Focus Blast may ruin Chansey's day depending on how much HP she has left.

Landorus is S for the sheer amount of offensive pressure it can create. It makes stall its little bitch. And not many things in offensive teams can outspeed it, and the ones who can don't like switching into it either. It's not a sweeper, it's wallbreaker, an a damn good one.
 
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Also, Landorus can run Knock Off to beat Latis, so there's that.
iirc I know this is very small niche but 252 HP / 176 Def Bold Latias survives 2 Knock Offs and can recover/dpulse or psyshock or even ice beam/toxic stall 4 Atk Life Orb Lando-I, not saying you should use this, but if your looking for a counter to Lando_i, Keldeo and Char-Y at the same time, this is your (wo)man right here.

also once it doesn't qualify as double posting (cause I don't want to mess up or change the point of this post by editing it) I'll argue Chomp for S Rank because reasons to be explained
 
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+1 to Seismitoad's great viability in rain teams, especially in the current meta. May not hit as hard as Kabutops or Omastar but with it's superior typing and bulk can easily take a hit or two. Manectric isn't a solid switch-in to Thundurus and even if it was, it doesn't stop Thundurus from forcing out any of your swift swimmers and ruining the momentum. Though having a special attack stat of only 85, A STAB Life Orb Hydro Pump in the rain is 1.26x more powerful than Landorus' Earth Power. Seismitoad's remaining special movepool of Earth Power, Sludge Wave, and Focus Blast provide the same coverage as Landorus albeit significantly weaker. It can run Knock Off and lure Chansey and can even be the rock setter as well. With a speed investment of only 24, it hits a speed of 378 outspeeding Greninja. The remaining 228 EVs can be invested in either or both of it's mediocre defenses since it already has a high base HP of 105. Resistance to Stealth Rock, respectable bulk, and excellent defensive typing in addition to speedy offensive presence make it much harder to take down than any of the other Swift Swimmers. I personally feel it's currently the best choice on a rain team that wants to succeed in this meta because from my observation, all-out Hyper Offensive rain teams aren't doing too well right now and rain teams could use some robustness. I recently made a rain team which included Seismitoad and Amoonguss as additions to four offensive mons and I can say it produced far better results than just trying to pack in as many sweepers in as possible. I wouldn't rate Seismitoad any lower than Kingdra (B).

As I mentioned before, Amoonguss checks a boatload of threats to rain teams. Keldeo, Grass attacks, Electric attacks, and rain-boosted Water attacks. It also doesn't really sap much momentum as all it has to do is sponge a hit, Spore, and switch out to a sweeper or rain setter.
 
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"Nom Nom I wanna be S Rank"
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So yeah, another nomination: Garchomp (Normal) for S Rank

  • Scarf Chomp
Garchomp is arguably the best scarfer on offensive teams these days. Scarf Chomp's combination of great STAB, speed tier, and bulk/typing in order to be able to actually handle stray hits makes it a mainstay on offense. Garchomp provides as a great utility check and revenge killer to many pokemon in the OU tier such as, but not limited to, Aegislash (non Ice) Thundurus (check) and Mega Charizard Y. Not only this but it has great synergy with some of offenses biggest threats, for instance, Keldeo, has amazing synergy with it, trumping bolt beam between them and other features.

  • Defensive Chomp
Defensive Chomp is actually quite interesting, the rocky helmet set and the sdef set for physical threats/voltturn and char Y/aegislash respectively. Defensive Garchomp also serves as a nice check to the popularization of HP Flying Thundurus-I. And while it can't handle full HP Landorus TOO well, this is mainly a bulk statement but it can survive 2 Earth Powers from LO SF Lando-I w/o a resistance or anything(depending on hazard stack)- 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 183-216 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock that is a very impressive feature. It's also specially bulkier than Hippowdon, which the SDef set of is already notorious, taking up to a new league. In general Garchomp is very bulky and defensive sets should not be under estimated.

  • Swords Dance (sash and bulky SD)
Now onto the 2 SD Chomps: Sash and Bulky (really sash is a variant of offensive SD but the most popular offensive SD set is sash so lets go with that). So basically, Bulky SD Chomp is something rare in XY OU or even unheard of, because it's so rarely used. However this does not compromise it's effectiveness bulky SD usually runs anywhere from 40 to 180 atk evs with 252 speed EVs and the rest of EVs stored in HP. I usually use this variant:

september (Garchomp) @ Haban Berry / Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Spd / 60 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
(imo, haban is the best item on bulky chomp Haban Berry and these HP EVs lets it live +1 252 Atk Adamant zard X dragon claw (however it fails to live Jolly Outrage)and lets it take any hit from Mega Zard Y while tanking 2 solar beams and 2+ Fire Blasts, Haban really netting the chance vs dragon pulse variants.)

This is a very key part of Bulky SD Chomp as it can serve as a great utility check to Zard at any given moment. Not only this, but the EVs ensure a 2HKO on sdef sylveon (which you should be using or else your sylveon is just roflstomped by lando-i just imo, I have yet to play test sylveon more than 12 times) without a boost, and an OHKO after a swords dance. The EVs also let it have a 67% chance of living specs latios draco meteor
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Haban Berry Garchomp: 364-430 (89.6 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
However, this set is more desperate to beat skarm than ever, since stone edge doesn't 2hko unlike some of the more offensive variants (stone plate, adamant, life orb, etc) after a boost even. However stone edge still beats Togekiss, and Earthquake 2HKOs non physically defensive Clefable, however still fails to Unaware Quagsire.

Onto Sash SD aka Offensive SD
Sash SD is a very threatening set that has been popularized in the OU metagame and is generally, well, a fucking threat, I haven't had much time to test it so I cannot speak well on it, but if your doubting this set at first glance, look no further than "Dance Like You Want to Win!" by FLCL a very solid team with a solid RMT to show it, which features sash chomp in action.


  • Closing Statement
So basically, you really can't stop garchomp from doing it's job, and it usually does it extremely well, so garchomp is a beast with pretty much no counters between offensive SD, choice and defensive sets that can provide immense help to pretty much almost any team, defensive or offensive. And that's why I think Garchomp should be S Rank, if you have any problems with my argument I'm glad to make good arguments against that, and if I can't well, I guess I have to admit when I'm wrong! ^_^
 
I'm really unsure where I stand with Garchomp moving up to S-rank, I personally wouldn't mind it, but I think it's fine where it is. All the Pokemon in S-rank currently have amazing points for them: Aegislash - 150 / 150 / 150 / 150, M-Zard X - DD is terrifying, Deoxys-D - Best hazard setter, Deoxys-S - Powerful and Speedy, Landorus-I - Best wallbreaker, Thundurus-I - Prankster / Defiant, it's hard to stop. Whereas Garchomp is amazing, it just doesn't really do much for me, it's very easy to revenge kill if not scarfed and it has many more counters than those of in S-rank, for instance, Clefable beats any set lacking the uncommon Iron Head (which is shit unless on M-Chomp). Here are some Pokemon that beat it:
  • Skarmory (lacking Fire Blast)
  • Gliscor
  • Landorus-T
  • Quagsire
  • Hippowdown
  • Togekiss
  • Clefable
  • Greninja (can not switch in)
  • Keldeo (can not switch in)
  • Latios (can not switch in)
  • Deoxys-S (can not switch in)
It all depends on the set really, Choice Scarf fails to break through Physically Defensive Pokemon and if locked into a Dragon-type move, Fiaries as well beat it. Defensive Chomp is beat by fast offensive Pokemon, and Pokemon that commonly carry Ice coverage. Swords Dance Chomp is hoenstly the set I fear the most, as if you lack a Scarfer or a faster Pokemon, it can be heard to handle, but therein lies the problem, it can be easily revenge-killed. I see a ton of amazing points for Garchomp and a few for bad, but I feel like it is perfectly fine in A+, but very nice post!

Sorry if I made some stupid mistake, I just woke up u.u
 
I'm really unsure where I stand with Garchomp moving up to S-rank, I personally wouldn't mind it, but I think it's fine where it is. All the Pokemon in S-rank currently have amazing points for them: Aegislash - 150 / 150 / 150 / 150, M-Zard X - DD is terrifying, Deoxys-D - Best hazard setter, Deoxys-S - Powerful and Speedy, Landorus-I - Best wallbreaker, Thundurus-I - Prankster / Defiant, it's hard to stop. Whereas Garchomp is amazing, it just doesn't really do much for me, it's very easy to revenge kill if not scarfed and it has many more counters than those of in S-rank, for instance, Clefable beats any set lacking the uncommon Iron Head (which is shit unless on M-Chomp). Here are some Pokemon that beat it:
  • Skarmory (lacking Fire Blast)
  • Gliscor
  • Landorus-T
  • Quagsire
  • Hippowdown
  • Togekiss
  • Clefable
  • Greninja (can not switch in)
  • Keldeo (can not switch in)
  • Latios (can not switch in)
  • Deoxys-S (can not switch in)
It all depends on the set really, Choice Scarf fails to break through Physically Defensive Pokemon and if locked into a Dragon-type move, Fiaries as well beat it. Defensive Chomp is beat by fast offensive Pokemon, and Pokemon that commonly carry Ice coverage. Swords Dance Chomp is hoenstly the set I fear the most, as if you lack a Scarfer or a faster Pokemon, it can be heard to handle, but therein lies the problem, it can be easily revenge-killed. I see a ton of amazing points for Garchomp and a few for bad, but I feel like it is perfectly fine in A+, but very nice post!

Sorry if I made some stupid mistake, I just woke up u.u
Skarm can't beat +2 LO Stone Edge as it fails to be able to switchin more than once:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
also hippo can't beat it:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 328-386 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
it can't constantly switch into any variant as bulky sd still hurts it with +2 dclaw over time and defensive sets toxic it
also I even showed how unaware clef folds to even bulky sd chomp
Togekiss loses to stone edge

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm using Lo Chomp as an argument because dragon gem chomp was a very notorious wallbreaker last gen and this is basically it's newest revived form
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 419-493 (109.6 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
also let me answer to the offensive checks
    • Keldeo loses to bulky yache
    • Greninja wins but can never switchin
    • Latios loses to bulky Haban as shown in previous post
    • Deo-S can't beat bulky Yache
 
Skarm can't beat +2 LO Stone Edge as it fails to be able to switchin more than once:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
also hippo can't beat it:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 328-386 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
it can't constantly switch into any variant as bulky sd still hurts it with +2 dclaw over time and defensive sets toxic it
also I even showed how unaware clef folds to even bulky sd chomp
Togekiss loses to stone edge

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm using Lo Chomp as an argument because dragon gem chomp was a very notorious wallbreaker last gen and this is basically it's newest revived form
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 419-493 (109.6 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
also let me answer to the offensive checks
    • Keldeo loses to bulky yache
    • Greninja wins but can never switchin
    • Latios loses to bulky Haban as shown in previous post
    • Deo-S can't beat bulky Yache


But that's exactly what I'm saying, it can beat any Pokemon, but depending on the set and moves ____ walls it while ____ no longer walls it. It's hard to stop and really good, and I have no problem with it moving to S-rank, I just think it's better suited to A+-rank.
 
Skarm can't beat +2 LO Stone Edge as it fails to be able to switchin more than once:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 162-192 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
also hippo can't beat it:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 328-386 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
it can't constantly switch into any variant as bulky sd still hurts it with +2 dclaw over time and defensive sets toxic it
also I even showed how unaware clef folds to even bulky sd chomp
Togekiss loses to stone edge

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I'm using Lo Chomp as an argument because dragon gem chomp was a very notorious wallbreaker last gen and this is basically it's newest revived form
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 419-493 (109.6 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 331-390 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
also let me answer to the offensive checks
    • Keldeo loses to bulky yache
    • Greninja wins but can never switchin
    • Latios loses to bulky Haban as shown in previous post
    • Deo-S can't beat bulky Yache

I see your point but outrage on garchomp? It may destroy walls but not many people run it anymore so stuff like curse or stockpile quagsire and land-t i consider to be able to beat it. Also i doubt it can beat unaware clefable. I'll say it can work but it will be nowhere near as threatening as something like Zard X which can sweep any team given a free turn, garchomp will only be able to do something like this against slower teams and in today's metagame i rarely see them anymore.
 
I see your point but outrage on garchomp? It may destroy walls but not many people run it anymore so stuff like curse or stockpile quagsire and land-t i consider to be able to beat it. Also i doubt it can beat unaware clefable. I'll say it can work but it will be nowhere near as threatening as something like Zard X which can sweep any team given a free turn, garchomp will only be able to do something like this against slower teams and in today's metagame i rarely see them anymore.

Curse / Stockpile Quagsire is by far the worst Quagsire (well besides Specs I guess), so please don't mention it.
 
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