I disagree. zam is a legitimately threatening attacker not disimilar to greninja. its rly frickin strong and fast.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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I have to agree with this. Mega Alakazam is a pretty darn underrated thread at the moment and people don't seem to give it enough credit. Mega Alakazam ties with Mega Aerodactyl for having the highest base speed of all mega Pokemon at base 150 which is just an out of this world speed tier. Yes it gets wrecked by any non resisted priority but IF you can get those common priority users like Aegislash and scarfers like Latias out of the way mega Alakazam can sweep complete teams. Second Mega Alakazam has a gigantic base 175 special attack which makes it able to really punch holes into walls. Mega Alakazam can even afford to run modest nature with all the speed he has making sure only Chansey can wall it good. Lastly while Trace is a step down from Magic Guard it is still a great ability and being able to copy useful abilities like Mold Breaker, Intimidate and even Technician can't hurt you at all. Yes you can sometimes get bad abilities like Slow Start but every Pokemon with bad abilities sucks in OU ( Archeops, Regigigas, Slaking ). While Mega Alakazam can't safely switch in at all and needs a bit of support it is still a great Pokemon.
Ferrothorn and Excadrill make TERRIBLE switch-ins (Focus Blast).
Mold Breaker bypasses sturdy, making it the only unboosted pokemon capable of OHKOing Skarmory at full health. Although I agree mold breaker isn't the best ability for Amlh.
The support required is wish support. If doesn't need heal bell since it can't be paralyzed, doesn't care about burns, and never stays in long enough for toxic to do much damage. Although, none of this is an issue of you run the RestTalk set (which I don't advise.) It's not supportive itself like Rotom-W, and it isn't supposed to be. But you feel like status is a big deal, run Discharge for paralysis.
All in all, Mega Amph is much bulkier and more powerful than Rotom-W. The only real differences seem to be Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split. But Amph isn't supposed to be supportive like Rotom so that doesn't really matter.
Also, Rotom-W loses to Excadrill too. And Ferrothorn.
Okay so I see people are talking shit about Mega Zam and I'd like to try and end that. For one thing, regular Alakazam is definitely the more subpar of the two by far. Sash lets it revenge kill some things I guess, but compared to last gen it doesn't hit very hard and it's completely boned by Pursuit Aegislash. Priority is also just as bad for Zam as it is for its Mega form, because now it's very difficult to keep its Sash intact and revenge kill as successfully as it could before. It's also outsped by the very common Greninja which completely destroys it, and with bulky Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Mandibuzz, Mega Scizor, Aegislash, and much more running rampant through the tier, Alakazam is going to need a lot of residual to revenge kill these things, which is something that it didn't really need as much last generation because a lot of the sweepers were frailer. Last but not least, it's just really hard to justify using over other revenge killers such as Talonflame, Thundurus, and especially Deoxys-S. Yes, it doesn't take up the Mega slot, but other than the power increase (which doesn't really matter too much because Deo-S has Psycho Boost), Deoxys-S is basically the better choice almost 90% of the time.
Okay now moving onto Mega Alakazam. This thing also has its share of flaws, such as being weak to priority, still hating Aegislash, taking up a Mega slot, and facing competition from revenge killer Deo-S. However, there's one huge thing that Mega Alakazam has over Deoxys-S that makes it a viable choice on some teams, and that's Trace. With Trace, Mega Alakazam becomes an amazing annoyance with the ability to Trace abilities from the likes of Landorus, Greninja, Thundurus, Heatran, Manectric before it mega evolves, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Venusaur, Swift swimmers, even Iron Barbs from Ferrothorn can be useful, and the list goes on. These new abilities allow it to be an amazing cleaner and wallbreaker. Its incredible 150 base Speed stat allows it to outpace Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar even after a boost, which is something that not even regular Alakazam can without having to break its Sash. Did I mention it can still do this with a Modest nature? With a Modest nature, it hits incredibly hard on top of outpacing almost the entire unboosted metagame, which again is something that Alakazam wishes it could do. Here's a cool set that I've been using on a team that bests appreciates Mega Alakazam's ability to clean up as well as Trace immunities:
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard / Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Shadow Ball (if not running a Pursuit trapper)
Credit to Dice for this set. This is probably one of my favorite sets I've ever used with Mega Alakazam, because it uses it takes so much advantage of its ability Trace, which is what you should be using Mega Zam for. Taunt shuts down a lot of Pokemon commonly found on stall teams such as Heatran, Chansey, Quagsire, Skarmory, Clefable, etc. Like for example, Heatran is completely shutdown because you're immune to Lava Plume and it can't Toxic or Roar you out. This allows for a free switch into a set up sweeper or just allows Mega Zam to heavily weaken stall teams to a point where it can either clean up or leave room for a win condition. Psyshock is pretty bad on this set, because it can't hit physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and Clefable nearly as hard. It also lets you abuse Sheer Force if you ever manage to trace it off of a Landorus, which is neat as hell. Focus Blast is mainly for Heatran, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, basically anything that can shrug off Psychic. Hidden Power Fire is the last move on this set because it keeps Mega Scizor from setting up on it, and guess what? If you manage to trace Technician, you now have a Flamethrower equivalent Fire-type move.
So yeah, pair this thing with Pursuit Bisharp or Tyranitar for Aegislash, and you have a very underrated offensive monster in your hands. Don't treat it only as a revenge killer, use it as a cleaner, stallbreaker, AND a revenge killer. The mega slot is the biggest issue with Mega Zam IMO, which is why I think B- is perfect for it. It can work very well with the right support, but it has its share of flaws and takes up a mega slot. I highly recommend you give this nigga a try. The ability to fuck with both offensive and stall teams makes it a very anti meta Pokemon that can give a lot of teams trouble.
To best honest, I'd drop regular Alakazam to C+. Yes it doesn't take up a Mega slot like Mega Zam, but it's still pretty inferior to it. It's also very outclassed as a revenge killer for the most part, and just doesn't hit hard enough.
tl;dr use Mega Alakazam drop regular Zam to C+
Okay now moving onto Mega Alakazam. This thing also has its share of flaws, such as being weak to priority, still hating Aegislash, taking up a Mega slot, and facing competition from revenge killer Deo-S. However, there's one huge thing that Mega Alakazam has over Deoxys-S that makes it a viable choice on some teams, and that's Trace. With Trace, Mega Alakazam becomes an amazing annoyance with the ability to Trace abilities from the likes of Landorus, Greninja, Thundurus, Heatran, Manectric before it mega evolves, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Venusaur, Swift swimmers, even Iron Barbs from Ferrothorn can be useful, and the list goes on. These new abilities allow it to be an amazing cleaner and wallbreaker. Its incredible 150 base Speed stat allows it to outpace Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar even after a boost, which is something that not even regular Alakazam can without having to break its Sash. Did I mention it can still do this with a Modest nature? With a Modest nature, it hits incredibly hard on top of outpacing almost the entire unboosted metagame, which again is something that Alakazam wishes it could do. Here's a cool set that I've been using on a team that bests appreciates Mega Alakazam's ability to clean up as well as Trace immunities:
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard / Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Shadow Ball (if not running a Pursuit trapper)
Credit to Dice for this set. This is probably one of my favorite sets I've ever used with Mega Alakazam, because it uses it takes so much advantage of its ability Trace, which is what you should be using Mega Zam for. Taunt shuts down a lot of Pokemon commonly found on stall teams such as Heatran, Chansey, Quagsire, Skarmory, Clefable, etc. Like for example, Heatran is completely shutdown because you're immune to Lava Plume and it can't Toxic or Roar you out. This allows for a free switch into a set up sweeper or just allows Mega Zam to heavily weaken stall teams to a point where it can either clean up or leave room for a win condition. Psyshock is pretty bad on this set, because it can't hit physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and Clefable nearly as hard. It also lets you abuse Sheer Force if you ever manage to trace it off of a Landorus, which is neat as hell. Focus Blast is mainly for Heatran, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, basically anything that can shrug off Psychic. Hidden Power Fire is the last move on this set because it keeps Mega Scizor from setting up on it, and guess what? If you manage to trace Technician, you now have a Flamethrower equivalent Fire-type move.
So yeah, pair this thing with Pursuit Bisharp or Tyranitar for Aegislash, and you have a very underrated offensive monster in your hands. Don't treat it only as a revenge killer, use it as a cleaner, stallbreaker, AND a revenge killer. The mega slot is the biggest issue with Mega Zam IMO, which is why I think B- is perfect for it. It can work very well with the right support, but it has its share of flaws and takes up a mega slot. I highly recommend you give this nigga a try. The ability to fuck with both offensive and stall teams makes it a very anti meta Pokemon that can give a lot of teams trouble.
To best honest, I'd drop regular Alakazam to C+. Yes it doesn't take up a Mega slot like Mega Zam, but it's still pretty inferior to it. It's also very outclassed as a revenge killer for the most part, and just doesn't hit hard enough.
tl;dr use Mega Alakazam drop regular Zam to C+
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@ above post shadow ball > hp fire is good too (hits lati@s, aegi, etc) but i always use pursuit bisharp w/ mega zam so i normally just end up using hp fire
anyway, i'd move up clefable to a+. its typing is just superb and it can run a variety of sets which all have amazing utility whether it be cm flamethrower, stealth rock, cm stored power to break stall, wishtect, etc. a lot of teams are forced to have a steel / poison move so they don't become clefable weak showing how dominant it is
rehashing my argument a few pages back, mega venu / kyurem-b for A plz.
anyway, i'd move up clefable to a+. its typing is just superb and it can run a variety of sets which all have amazing utility whether it be cm flamethrower, stealth rock, cm stored power to break stall, wishtect, etc. a lot of teams are forced to have a steel / poison move so they don't become clefable weak showing how dominant it is
rehashing my argument a few pages back, mega venu / kyurem-b for A plz.
Kyu-B is already A.
PREACH. Really, if you need a powerful, versatile psychic-type revenge killer, IMO Mega Alakazam completely eclipses Deo-S in this role:Okay so I see people are talking shit about Mega Zam and I'd like to try and end that. For one thing, regular Alakazam is definitely the more subpar of the two by far. Sash lets it revenge kill some things I guess, but compared to last gen it doesn't hit very hard and it's completely boned by Pursuit Aegislash. Priority is also just as bad for Zam as it is for its Mega form, because now it's very difficult to keep its Sash intact and revenge kill as successfully as it could before. It's also outsped by the very common Greninja which completely destroys it, and with bulky Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Mandibuzz, Mega Scizor, Aegislash, and much more running rampant through the tier, Alakazam is going to need a lot of residual to revenge kill these things, which is something that it didn't really need as much last generation because a lot of the sweepers were frailer. Last but not least, it's just really hard to justify using over other revenge killers such as Talonflame, Thundurus, and especially Deoxys-S. Yes, it doesn't take up the Mega slot, but other than the power increase (which doesn't really matter too much because Deo-S has Psycho Boost), Deoxys-S is basically the better choice almost 90% of the time.
Okay now moving onto Mega Alakazam. This thing also has its share of flaws, such as being weak to priority, still hating Aegislash, taking up a Mega slot, and facing competition from revenge killer Deo-S. However, there's one huge thing that Mega Alakazam has over Deoxys-S that makes it a viable choice on some teams, and that's Trace. With Trace, Mega Alakazam becomes an amazing annoyance with the ability to Trace abilities from the likes of Landorus, Greninja, Thundurus, Heatran, Manectric before it mega evolves, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega Venusaur, Swift swimmers, even Iron Barbs from Ferrothorn can be useful, and the list goes on. These new abilities allow it to be an amazing cleaner and wallbreaker. Its incredible 150 base Speed stat allows it to outpace Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar even after a boost, which is something that not even regular Alakazam can without having to break its Sash. Did I mention it can still do this with a Modest nature? With a Modest nature, it hits incredibly hard on top of outpacing almost the entire unboosted metagame, which again is something that Alakazam wishes it could do. Here's a cool set that I've been using on a team that bests appreciates Mega Alakazam's ability to clean up as well as Trace immunities:
Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard / Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Credit to Dice for this set. This is probably one of my favorite sets I've ever used with Mega Alakazam, because it uses it takes so much advantage of its ability Trace, which is what you should be using Mega Zam for. Taunt shuts down a lot of Pokemon commonly found on stall teams such as Heatran, Chansey, Quagsire, Skarmory, Clefable, etc. Like for example, Heatran is completely shutdown because you're immune to Lava Plume and it can't Toxic or Roar you out. This allows for a free switch into a set up sweeper or just allows Mega Zam to heavily weaken stall teams to a point where it can either clean up or leave room for a win condition. Psyshock is pretty bad on this set, because it can't hit physically defensive Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Quagsire, Mega Venusaur, and Clefable nearly as hard. It also lets you abuse Sheer Force if you ever manage to trace it off of a Landorus, which is neat as hell. Focus Blast is mainly for Heatran, Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados, Bisharp, basically anything that can shrug off Psychic. Hidden Power Fire is the last move on this set because it keeps Mega Scizor from setting up on it, and guess what? If you manage to trace Technician, you now have a Flamethrower equivalent Fire-type move.
So yeah, pair this thing with Pursuit Bisharp or Tyranitar for Aegislash, and you have a very underrated offensive monster in your hands. Don't treat it only as a revenge killer, use it as a cleaner, stallbreaker, AND a revenge killer. The mega slot is the biggest issue with Mega Zam IMO, which is why I think B- is perfect for it. It can work very well with the right support, but it has its share of flaws and takes up a mega slot. I highly recommend you give this nigga a try. The ability to fuck with both offensive and stall teams makes it a very anti meta Pokemon that can give a lot of teams trouble.
To best honest, I'd drop regular Alakazam to C+. Yes it doesn't take up a Mega slot like Mega Zam, but it's still pretty inferior to it. It's also very outclassed as a revenge killer for the most part, and just doesn't hit hard enough.
tl;dr use Mega Alakazam drop regular Zam to C+
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even with Life Orb, Deo-S' psychic is quite a bit weaker. Albeit, Psycho Boost does do this business:
252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 286-339 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But you're faced with a huge stat drop afterwards. If you're down to the wire and can't switch out, that's going to be a major no-no.
And yes, Alakazam does have other uses besides revenge killing, but I think showing what he can do versus a currently S-Ranked is a pretty effective argument for his being left alone in his ranking.
One thing this Alakazam set looks like it might have problems with is Gothitelle, as without Shadow Ball he can't do much besides sit there and die. Pretty neat otherwise.
Also dat beard.
Correct, Manaphy should pretty much never run Timid imo (or even speed in general) because against offense it doesn't make a difference anyway most of the time because of the mediocre speed tier, so all you're doing is sacrificing bulk and wallbreaking power (Manaphy's actual strengths over other offensive mons) for no real gain.
One thing though; your calculation is using the "bad" version of Chansey. The 8 HP + 248 SpD is an arguably more important calculation, because generally the good stall players will be using that one:
+6 252+ SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 8 HP / 248 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 274-324 (42.6 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Manaphy can run Rain Dance to bugger up Chansey and Clefable regardless though, which is why Manaphy deserves to never drop below A-, since it's a huge win con against stall, while also being able to pull its weight against offense by normally securing at least a kill against it.
On another note, I'd like to know what Gothitelle is still doing at B-. This pokemon is the new trend of the metagame. Everybody is talking about it, analyzing other pokemon based on how well they fare against it, and praising on how it dismantles stall. It's almost gotten OU usage in the last stats, and it deserves it. B- is a serious underestimation of it. Gothitelle should be promoted to B+.
I actually agree with this. However, B ranking is what I personally feel would be more appropriate. Anyways, I'll just C/P my post from Victory Road.
I would consider adding Gothitelle to B. Gothitelle has a field day with Stall, easily being one of it's best counters thanks to Shadow Tag. With access to moves such as Trick, Psyshock, Energy Ball, Hidden Power Fire, and Thunderbolt, Gothitelle also has an easy time taking down most Pokemon on stall with Choice Specs. There's also been a gimmicky but effective Trick + Rest + Taunt set that's been going around the ladder, and while it's basically a dead weight against offense, it debatably has an even easier time against stall. Overall, while Gothitelle can definitely have some troubles against more offensively-inclined teams, the fact that it can almost single-handedly beat Stall puts it up in B rank with the like of Lucario and Tornadus-T imo.
Basically, Gothitelle's troubles against more offensive teams keep it in the lower ranks, but it's invaluable support against stall could easily bring it up to B.
Gardevoir-Mega for A- / A. Mega Gardevoir is a huge threat, and can seriously dismantle unprepared teams. Hyper Voice hits so damn hard, and it hits through Substitute, allowing Mega Gardevoir to beat Baton Pass teams. It takes 19 boosts (without any SpA boosts) for Espeon to OHKO Mega Gardevoir with Stored Power, while it only takes +1 SpA in conjunction with 12 other boosts, either way, Mega Gardevoir will fuck up Baton Pass teams. Hyper Voice is so powerful, it even 2HKOes Scolipede, so no worry there either. Mega Gardevoir has very few true counters, here's the one listed in the Analysis:
Mega Gardevoir can fuck up its usual counters with its fourth moveslot. Hyper Voice / Psyshock / Focus Blast is mandatory, while in the last slot you can run Shadow Ball for Aegislash, Taunt for the Chansey / Blissey, and Will-o-Wisp for Physical attackers and Scizor. Mega Gardevoir is very unpredictable thanks to this, and there's also the chance the opponent might think you're running a different Mega on your team, so there's that factor as well. Mega Gardevoir is just very powerful and unpredictable, and depending on the moveset, it can beat its usual counters, making it a wrecking ball of destruction that is hard to stop for unprepared teams.
Now, Mega Gardevoir's downfall. Mega Gardevoir has very lackluster Speed before it Mega Evolves, meaning it can be outrun by a plethora of threats. It's only recovery, Wish, requires it to use Protect for constant recovery. Gardevoir's Defense is also pitiful, and sometimes Will-o-Wisp just is not enough to save it, as it has very bad HP as well. Mega Gardevoir also doesn't have the most amazing Speed in the world after Mega Evolving, and while sitting at base 100 is nice, it's just not enough, now if the +20 from Attack had been moved to Speed, it would certainly be an A+ threat. However, these flaws certainly hold it back. For these reasons, I believe that Mega Gardevoir should be moved to A- / A.
- Scizor
- Talonflame
- Aegislash
- Scolipede
- Gengar
- Special walls; namely the blobs
- Any physical attacker that is faster; it's really frail on the physical side and its Speed isn't exactly amazing
Mega Gardevoir can fuck up its usual counters with its fourth moveslot. Hyper Voice / Psyshock / Focus Blast is mandatory, while in the last slot you can run Shadow Ball for Aegislash, Taunt for the Chansey / Blissey, and Will-o-Wisp for Physical attackers and Scizor. Mega Gardevoir is very unpredictable thanks to this, and there's also the chance the opponent might think you're running a different Mega on your team, so there's that factor as well. Mega Gardevoir is just very powerful and unpredictable, and depending on the moveset, it can beat its usual counters, making it a wrecking ball of destruction that is hard to stop for unprepared teams.
Now, Mega Gardevoir's downfall. Mega Gardevoir has very lackluster Speed before it Mega Evolves, meaning it can be outrun by a plethora of threats. It's only recovery, Wish, requires it to use Protect for constant recovery. Gardevoir's Defense is also pitiful, and sometimes Will-o-Wisp just is not enough to save it, as it has very bad HP as well. Mega Gardevoir also doesn't have the most amazing Speed in the world after Mega Evolving, and while sitting at base 100 is nice, it's just not enough, now if the +20 from Attack had been moved to Speed, it would certainly be an A+ threat. However, these flaws certainly hold it back. For these reasons, I believe that Mega Gardevoir should be moved to A- / A.
Ah yes, trollfreak encouraging physical Gardevoir with that 20 attack boost. Put those 20 into speed or defense even and where would we be... I think the problem is that Mega Gardevoir is really hard to switch in (barring somebody decides to outrage or a free switch) considering its 65/65 defense stats, and even its Special Defense stat isn't amazing at covering up the poor HP. But once it's on the field, it's incredibly rewarding. Also, just a few comments on switch ins and counters/checks
Talonflame-If rocks are up, it can't actually switch in and will need a free switch considering it gets chunked for over 50% and just dies right there. Assuming CB Flame. If rocks aren't up and it switches in though, it's taken so much recoil damage that it's really only good for 1 more hit throughout the entire match.
Aegislash-Physical variants are neutered by Will-O-Wisp but I'm getting the impression that specially based variants are more common now. It still screws over his Shadow Sneak though.
This is probably the standard M-Garde set at this point:
Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
EVs allow you to counter non-Specs Latios by being able to switch into Psyshock and avoid the 2HKO. Rest is just coverage.
Overall, I feel that M-Garde has a huge reward for being used properly but its inability to switch in cleanly into a lot of attackers is preventing it from going much higher. I think that if the metagame had less obnoxious priority (i'm looking at you talonflame) or was more specially inclined, Mega Gardevoir would be even better than it is now.
In terms of team support though, I really don't think there are direct steps you need to take that you wouldn't already have. By this I mean that M-Gardevoir appreciates opposing speeds being lowered via either Sticky Web or paralysis. While I can't really speak for sticky web considering I haven't used it for a while (also obnoxiously situational), paralysis is best spread by Thundurus-I. And lots of teams can just stick Thundurus-I on for the team overall, not just as specific team support.
TLDR: Rocks are even more amazing with M-Gardevoir.
Use Thundurus-I.
Priority sucks.
Talonflame-If rocks are up, it can't actually switch in and will need a free switch considering it gets chunked for over 50% and just dies right there. Assuming CB Flame. If rocks aren't up and it switches in though, it's taken so much recoil damage that it's really only good for 1 more hit throughout the entire match.
Aegislash-Physical variants are neutered by Will-O-Wisp but I'm getting the impression that specially based variants are more common now. It still screws over his Shadow Sneak though.
This is probably the standard M-Garde set at this point:
Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
EVs allow you to counter non-Specs Latios by being able to switch into Psyshock and avoid the 2HKO. Rest is just coverage.
Overall, I feel that M-Garde has a huge reward for being used properly but its inability to switch in cleanly into a lot of attackers is preventing it from going much higher. I think that if the metagame had less obnoxious priority (i'm looking at you talonflame) or was more specially inclined, Mega Gardevoir would be even better than it is now.
In terms of team support though, I really don't think there are direct steps you need to take that you wouldn't already have. By this I mean that M-Gardevoir appreciates opposing speeds being lowered via either Sticky Web or paralysis. While I can't really speak for sticky web considering I haven't used it for a while (also obnoxiously situational), paralysis is best spread by Thundurus-I. And lots of teams can just stick Thundurus-I on for the team overall, not just as specific team support.
TLDR: Rocks are even more amazing with M-Gardevoir.
Use Thundurus-I.
Priority sucks.
I agree with you that Gardevoir is pretty underrated, but I'm not sure about A. On the upside, she is ridiculously hard to switch into. Anything who tries is in danger is taking ridiculous damage or getting burned. She is one of the few pokemon in the metagame without counters.
On the other hand, she is too frail for her own good. Physical attacks destroy her easily and special attackers don't have much trouble killing her either, and that 100 base speed is a very tricky one, and even trickier considering that it starts at 80. She is particulary weak to priority. And although Aegislash doesn't enjoy a burn, it is amazing against Gardy, being able to win even after it gets burned. This is a pokemon who needs a lot of support to capitalize on the few opportunities it gets to deal real damage. I think she could be fine on A- because of the sheer pressure she can make, but not A.
Also I agree with the guy who said to use Thundurus-I, it works. But an even better one is Mandibuzz, because it is a great switch in to all the physical attackers that threaten GArdevoir, plus Aegislash. Bisharp is also good because she can switch into the fighting moves (one of the few things she can switch into) that threaten it, while he can also stop Aegislash and has decent defense.
Yeah, I agree, A was a bit of a stretch, but B+ is certainly too low.
Also,
Fun fact: Gardevoir's name is Sirknight in Japanese, which literally means Sir Knight. So... ;]
Sorry, force of habit. I always think of Gardevoir as a girl.
To be fair, dat hair + dat dress.
But you should recognized that there are male Gardevoir. And they want you to respect their life choices.
Trevenant for D/C rank and Gourgeist for C+/C rank. <p>
These ghost pokemon both possess same typing and similar roles. Both are great spin blockers and should be considered when being placed on a team. <p>
Trevenant has a niche over Gourgeist because it has a better move pool with Horn Leech and Shadow Claw, and can also be a greater mixed wall. It has a massive 110 Attack which can leave a mark on opposing pokemon, even though it excels in stalling. Trevenant has a better recovery move-pool over Gourgeist with Harvest/Lum/Rest or Harvest/Sitrus Berry/Horn Leech. Also, Natural Cure can cure status conditions when switching out increasing its durability. <p>
Gourgeist has little niche over Trevenant because of limited movepool. Small Gourgeist with Sub-Seed is nice but doesn't hit hard damage and some pokes may do better at this role because of better move-pools. Trick can also get your opponent off guard. Super Size Gourgeist should only be used over Trevenant because of its 122 defence stat and Trick Room/Destiny Bond. Gourgeist has a 100 Attack stat but it doesn't learn any useful physical moves other than priority shadow sneak and seed bomb. Gourgeist lacks recovery other than Leech Seed. <p>
In conclusion, both of these ghost pokemon are completely useful in competitive play. They both have similar roles, resulting them to be ranked equally. They both should be considered being placed on a team.
These ghost pokemon both possess same typing and similar roles. Both are great spin blockers and should be considered when being placed on a team. <p>
Trevenant has a niche over Gourgeist because it has a better move pool with Horn Leech and Shadow Claw, and can also be a greater mixed wall. It has a massive 110 Attack which can leave a mark on opposing pokemon, even though it excels in stalling. Trevenant has a better recovery move-pool over Gourgeist with Harvest/Lum/Rest or Harvest/Sitrus Berry/Horn Leech. Also, Natural Cure can cure status conditions when switching out increasing its durability. <p>
Gourgeist has little niche over Trevenant because of limited movepool. Small Gourgeist with Sub-Seed is nice but doesn't hit hard damage and some pokes may do better at this role because of better move-pools. Trick can also get your opponent off guard. Super Size Gourgeist should only be used over Trevenant because of its 122 defence stat and Trick Room/Destiny Bond. Gourgeist has a 100 Attack stat but it doesn't learn any useful physical moves other than priority shadow sneak and seed bomb. Gourgeist lacks recovery other than Leech Seed. <p>
In conclusion, both of these ghost pokemon are completely useful in competitive play. They both have similar roles, resulting them to be ranked equally. They both should be considered being placed on a team.
Less Bold pls u.u. And Trevenant cannot be out of D-Rank as its analysis got rejected.
As a matter of fact, I think Gourgeist should join Trevenant down in D Rank (if not possibly outright unranked). Honestly, there are a number of reasons why I would never use Gourgeist in OU, of which I will explain right now. Firstly, Gourgeist is very weak to the metagame, as so many of the top threats just destroy it right now. These include, but are not limited to, Aegislash, Bisharp, Charizard, Kyurem-B, Greninja, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Heatran. Gourgeist is very slow, and does not have reliable recovery options to utilize, so its defensive utility is very limited. Gourgeist is one dimensional, and its use as a spinblocker isn't very valuable, as the only teams that really use a spinblocker are spike stacking Hyper Offense teams, and they use Aegislash as a blocker. Overall, I feel Gourgeist has too many flaws to really be worth it in OU, and I think it should be moved down accordingly (The small one could probably stay where it is though because it's neat as a fast SubSeeder).
I don't mind where Mega Gardevoir ends up (though it's definitely B+ minimum), but I can see where the arguments to move it up are coming from. It is a great offensive Fairy-type, as Pixilate Hyper Voice is extremely powerful coming off of Mega Gardevoir, and it has all the tools in that huge movepool to be able to screw up its checks and counters in one way or another. These include coverage options like Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, and Psyshock, as well as some cool status moves like Taunt and WoW. Its Speed is decent, although not great, and it hits like a truck in general. However, because it's a bit slow and that physical bulk is borderline awful, I think Mega Gardevoir is a B+ still, though I am not opposed to A-, since it is a great mon.
I don't mind where Mega Gardevoir ends up (though it's definitely B+ minimum), but I can see where the arguments to move it up are coming from. It is a great offensive Fairy-type, as Pixilate Hyper Voice is extremely powerful coming off of Mega Gardevoir, and it has all the tools in that huge movepool to be able to screw up its checks and counters in one way or another. These include coverage options like Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, and Psyshock, as well as some cool status moves like Taunt and WoW. Its Speed is decent, although not great, and it hits like a truck in general. However, because it's a bit slow and that physical bulk is borderline awful, I think Mega Gardevoir is a B+ still, though I am not opposed to A-, since it is a great mon.
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4387/42855664.jpg
That's what always comes to mind whenever someone mentions male Gardevoir.
On a more serious note, can someone explain the rationale behind Landorus-I going to S rank? (It's listed in VR, this thread is behind) Landorus is undeniably a great mon but what were the arguments that gave it the push to S?
Just look at the VR thread. But for your convenience I'll quote Rachet and Gary:
A+ ---------> Up to S Rank: And almost a generation later Landorus finds itself back in the S Rank. To be honest, this has been a long time coming, and it seemed like it took a while for people to start to realize its full potential. The fact that it basically plows through stall, one of the most consistent playstyles at the moment, is a huge boon for offensive teams which often struggle to beat them. If you use Knock Off, Chansey is going to be heavily neutered for the remainder of the battle, and with the support of something like Bisharp to Pursuit it and wear it down, Landorus can easily overpower it at some point. The Calm Mind set is also a massive stall breaker that can even blow through Chansey with the correct support, like the previously mentioned Bisharp or hazards. It's not only limited to beating stall though, because Landorus is just an amazing wallbreaker/cleaner in general. Its movepool is perfectly tailored to fuck anything with that is even considered defensive in the meta. It just provides an immense amount of support for offensive teams, has basically no reliable switch-ins, and breaks the fuck out of stall teams that lack CBB D-Nite. I doubt anyone would have an objection to this. It's just such an amazing Pokemon atm.
I agree with Lando being S. I run a semi stall team that pretty much handles every threat out there without breaking a sweat -- bar Lando-I. Even Chansey is at his mercy half the time -- sheer force focus blast is just insane. His coverage is also stupidly good -- I could normally wall him with SDef Breloom, but of course he has Psychic. Your only real hopes of winning in this scenario are with boosted priority moves or a fast ice type. He's very threating, and my anus clenches in fear every time I have to face one.
Edit: JK forgot about Focus Blast. Breloom doesn't do jack shit to Lando.
Edit: JK forgot about Focus Blast. Breloom doesn't do jack shit to Lando.
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I am starting to think Infernape should be higher in this ranking thread. B+ rank tops for Infernape and C+ rank lowest. That Iron Fist boosted Mach Punch is still pretty strong and Infernape has nice coverage and is a nice mixed sweeper. I think it's so low becasue people are running the wrong sets(Anti-Lead, Band, Nasty Plot, Sword's Dance, and Scarf) when they should be running a simple Life Orb set. Also another thing, Infernape is easily checked but not straight up walled or countered. Things like Talonflame, Tentacruel, Azumarill have to watch out for Thunder Punch and Rotom Wash has to watch out for Grass Knot and things like Dragonite or Latios have to watch out for HP Ice. His coverage picks his poison and with that in mind you can add teammates to deal with his checks easily. Some checks get straight up 2HKO'd by his moves period and can't switch safely thus letting Infernape get a kill regardless. Just based on using Infernape and the other pokes in that rank I can tell you he does not deserve to be there.
I'm sorry, I can't take this post seriously if you think that Grass Knot does anything to Rotom-W:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Infernape Grass Knot (20 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Rotom-W: 66-78 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 65.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This is the most powerful it can get, and look. Not even a 100% chance to 3HKO... Seriously?
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