Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[Ninja Charizard]

So is Breloom a lead or not? Breloom supporters are giving conflicting statements.

Breloom supporters are not a hive mind that use it exactly the same way.

I use LO Breloom, so I'm more likely to save it for later. I only lead with it if I predict a lead it beats, such as Greninja. And I certainly won't lead with it if I see a Deoxys-D on team preview.

Now, if I used it with Sash, I'd lead more often with it, but again, not against Deo-D. But let's face the facts, how many things can lead against Deo-D and reliably obtain hazard advantage against it? I think that says more about Deo-D's brokeness in the meta than about Breloom.

 

[Halcyon.]

Made a team recently with Mega Garchomp. It was definitely a really cool mon, but B+ is definitely the place I would put it. It's a nice wall breaker for sand teams and it's super powerful but that drop in speed really does hurt it.

 

[skies]

Mega Gardevoir's physical bulk is somewhat mitigated by Will-O-Wisp, which beats Scizor and Aegislash. Mega Gardevoir has two main sets: Offensive and Calm Mind, both of which are strong, the Calm Mind one being a bit less important than offensive. Mega Gardevoir is a flawless Latios / Latias counter and has a highly spammable move, it doesn't need to be versatile. It can simply fire off its Hyper Voices well, not everything has to be extremely versatile. Mega Venusaur isn't very versatile and its in A Rank. And I honestly do not consider the "it takes up a mega slot" an argument anymore. There was a use a while back, I believe Subject 18, that made a long post about it, but to summarize: You use that Mega Pokemon because you want what role it plays. Mega Venusaur is never wanting to be switched out with Mega Pinsir on stall teams, simply because its mega brings what it does to its team. Mega Gardevoir brings a powerful special attacker with a highly spammable move, the only Mega I'd consider in its role is Mega Charizard Y, another special sweeper. While 100 Speed may not be the best, several things also have that speed or lower, such as M-Zard X and Aegislash, and even though it has poor physical bulk, you're ignoring its super large Special Defense, which is something it really has going for it. What support does it really need? The only I've found is a way to beat Scizor and Aegislash which Will-O-Wisp handies dandily, I'm sure there is more but that is right off the top of my head, feel free to correct me.

 

[NoahStar]

And I honestly do not consider the "it takes up a mega slot" an argument anymore. There was a use a while back, I believe Subject 18, that made a long post about it, but to summarize: You use that Mega Pokemon because you want what role it plays. Mega Venusaur is never wanting to be switched out with Mega Pinsir on stall teams, simply because its mega brings what it does to its team.

This. Seriously people, unless you're talking about the pros and cons of using DD MTyranitar/Gyara/ZardX over Dragonite, stop using the 'it takes up a Mega slot' as an argument. If a team needs a certain Mega Pokemon, its going to use said mega over others because it fits. This argument honestly died a month before MZard Y was moved out of S Rank.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Also, as someone pointed before, rain teams don't even need politoed, suicide rain leads and dedicated rain dance users are can take the place of politoed and be more effective as individual pokemon, like the tornadus formes or deoxys formes.

Uh, I don't know who said that, but you NEED Politoed. I mean yes, you can win games with just Rain dancers, but rain-upon-entry is REALLY REALLY good compared to rain-upon-spending-a-turn.

Yes Politoed is a really mediocre mon, except its ability, but Drizzle is so good that it makes rain more viable and easier to use, which means Politoed is good.

Now onto Mega Gardevoir, I think this thing should stay where it is. Mega Gardevoir like Breloom just requires too much support for A- rank status. Mega Gardevoir also has quite a few flaws like it's awful physical bulk, average speed and taking up your mega slot. Most teams generally have an answer to Mega Gardevoir without even trying too hard as common Pokemon like Aegislash and Mega Scizor are a full stop to it. Also there is only one thing Mega Gardevoir is good at really, being powerful. But outside of that it's pretty bad. Mega Gardevoir isn't very versatile either as the only versatility it has is wheter it should run Taunt, Will O Wisp or any other move in it's last moveslot. Mega Gardevoir's positive traits outshine it's negative ones but all the problems it has just make me think more of it as a B+ Pokemon rather than a A- one.

"Most teams generally have an answer to Mega Gardevoir without even trying too hard as common Pokemon like Aegislash and Mega Scizor are a full stop to it," okay and what else? Cause they're pretty much the only things in the meta able to both switch in and win against Garde, everything else is just nuked by FAE SCREAM OF DEATH + the other moves. And both of those mons really, really hate being burned.

I also don't get your argument about versatility. Pretty much every mega runs one set with only one or two moves changed around, e.g. Mega T-Tar has DDance, with one coverage move changed; Y-zard changes exactly one move, too; Mawile, pretty much Sub or SD, etc.

Its poor physical bulk and average speed are enough to keep it in B+ imo but don't point out tiny flaws just for the sake of it. Scizor and Aegislash are the ONLY things that can switch in to Garde, and they both are screwed by Wisp. And having just one good set is a trait shared by several A/S pokemon.

 

[theV8man]

Uh, I don't know who said that, but you NEED Politoed. I mean yes, you can win games with just Rain dancers, but rain-upon-entry is REALLY REALLY good compared to rain-upon-spending-a-turn.

Yes Politoed is a really mediocre mon, except its ability, but Drizzle is so good that it makes rain more viable and easier to use, which means Politoed is good.



"Most teams generally have an answer to Mega Gardevoir without even trying too hard as common Pokemon like Aegislash and Mega Scizor are a full stop to it," okay and what else? Cause they're pretty much the only things in the meta able to both switch in and win against Garde, everything else is just nuked by FAE SCREAM OF DEATH + the other moves. And both of those mons really, really hate being burned.

I also don't get your argument about versatility. Pretty much every mega runs one set with only one or two moves changed around, e.g. Mega T-Tar has DDance, with one coverage move changed; Y-zard changes exactly one move, too; Mawile, pretty much Sub or SD, etc.

Its poor physical bulk and average speed are enough to keep it in B+ imo but don't point out tiny flaws just for the sake of it. Scizor and Aegislash are the ONLY things that can switch in to Garde, and they both are screwed by Wisp. And having just one good set is a trait shared by several A/S pokemon.

If you are running Wisp on Gardevoir you're also countered by Chansey...

EDIT: I realize it's up to your teammates but the what I quoted suggested that Aegi/Scizor were the only counters for Wisp Gard.

 

[Kiga]

If you are running Wisp on Gardevoir you're also countered by Chansey...

...and if you run Taunt on Gardevoir, you're countered by Aegislash and Scizor...

If you have a Chansey counter, run Wisp. If you have a counter for Aegislash and Scizor, run Taunt. Base the set on the team, not just the pokemon.

 

[Srn]

Mega Gardevoir's physical bulk is somewhat mitigated by Will-O-Wisp, which beats Scizor and Aegislash. Mega Gardevoir has two main sets: Offensive and Calm Mind, both of which are strong, the Calm Mind one being a bit less important than offensive. Mega Gardevoir is a flawless Latios / Latias counter and has a highly spammable move, it doesn't need to be versatile. It can simply fire off its Hyper Voices well, not everything has to be extremely versatile. Mega Venusaur isn't very versatile and its in A Rank. And I honestly do not consider the "it takes up a mega slot" an argument anymore. There was a use a while back, I believe Subject 18, that made a long post about it, but to summarize: You use that Mega Pokemon because you want what role it plays. Mega Venusaur is never wanting to be switched out with Mega Pinsir on stall teams, simply because its mega brings what it does to its team. Mega Gardevoir brings a powerful special attacker with a highly spammable move, the only Mega I'd consider in its role is Mega Charizard Y, another special sweeper. While 100 Speed may not be the best, several things also have that speed or lower, such as M-Zard X and Aegislash, and even though it has poor physical bulk, you're ignoring its super large Special Defense, which is something it really has going for it. What support does it really need? The only I've found is a way to beat Scizor and Aegislash which Will-O-Wisp handies dandily, I'm sure there is more but that is right off the top of my head, feel free to correct me.

You're actually incorrect that mega gardevoir is a flawless lati@s counter:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 121-143 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO
After rocks thats a pretty solid chance to 2hko on the switch in.
That's why you run 24 defense evs to avoid it :I

Mega venu is pretty versatile imo, you have to keep your eyes peeled for either sleep powder, hidden power fire, or eq. Leech Seed is a pretty bad option imo.

It's "super large" sp. def, which is 135 admittedly not too bad, is just crippled by terrible 68 base hp, you can barely take two hydro pumps from greninja lol.
Also, mega scizor can just Bullet Punch for the clean OHKO to play safe. You crippling mega scizor only works if you make the risky knock off/roost/Sd/some other move not named bp prediction and/or burn on the switch in.
And aegislash just shadow balls to kill anyway burn doesn't really stop it that much lol.

(Oh and i apologize for bringing up a pokemon that wasn't one that we were discussing in the first place, I stopped following the thread for a while and didn't notice the change in the system of what we discuss :I)

 

[alexwolf]

Mega Gardevoir's physical bulk is somewhat mitigated by Will-O-Wisp, which beats Scizor and Aegislash. Mega Gardevoir has two main sets: Offensive and Calm Mind, both of which are strong, the Calm Mind one being a bit less important than offensive. Mega Gardevoir is a flawless Latios / Latias counter and has a highly spammable move, it doesn't need to be versatile. It can simply fire off its Hyper Voices well, not everything has to be extremely versatile. Mega Venusaur isn't very versatile and its in A Rank. And I honestly do not consider the "it takes up a mega slot" an argument anymore. There was a use a while back, I believe Subject 18, that made a long post about it, but to summarize: You use that Mega Pokemon because you want what role it plays. Mega Venusaur is never wanting to be switched out with Mega Pinsir on stall teams, simply because its mega brings what it does to its team. Mega Gardevoir brings a powerful special attacker with a highly spammable move, the only Mega I'd consider in its role is Mega Charizard Y, another special sweeper. While 100 Speed may not be the best, several things also have that speed or lower, such as M-Zard X and Aegislash, and even though it has poor physical bulk, you're ignoring its super large Special Defense, which is something it really has going for it. What support does it really need? The only I've found is a way to beat Scizor and Aegislash which Will-O-Wisp handies dandily, I'm sure there is more but that is right off the top of my head, feel free to correct me.

• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 117-138 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 117-139 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 99-117 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

That's not a counter at all, it's a just a check. Gardevoir can only really switch into Draco Meteor if SR is up. Gardevoir fares a lot better against Latias, as Latias can only 3HKO even with SR up, but this is still not a counter just a pretty solid check.

I don't really have an opinion on Mega Gardevoir going to A-, just wanted to point out that she is in no way a counter to the Lati twins.

 

[skies]

• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 117-138 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 117-139 (42.2 - 50.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 99-117 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

That's not a counter at all, it's a just a check. Gardevoir can only really switch into Draco Meteor if SR is up. Gardevoir fares a lot better against Latias, as Latias can only 3HKO even with SR up, but this is still not a counter just a pretty solid check.

I don't really have an opinion on Mega Gardevoir going to A-, just wanted to point out that she is in no way a counter to the Lati twins.

It does flawlessly beat Latias still:
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 104-122 (37.5 - 44%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[LZH14]

Something that I keep failing to realize is that Gengar has the same offensive stats as Latios. I have no idea why. I think Gengar is amazing with all the different sets it can run, subdisable, LO attack, sash, etc. etc. and that possible diversity makes it really aggravating to deal with since if it's sash, I can't just switch in Bisharp and go "switch out or die" I'm not exactly directly in favor of it going to A+ just cause of its inability to take any hit whatsoever but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.
Oh Breloom, how I hate you so much. Why can't mold breaker shit on items too? T_T Sash, spore, bullet seed, mach punch, rock slide. HNGGGG!
I think Politoed should go B+, it's still very good and required if you ever wanna run rain, it's just kinda underwhelming beside that and with Deo-S now open for Rain Dance (Tornadus-I if you want prankster rain but who uses Tornadus-I?).
No comment on Krookodile apart from people are REALLY desperate for Aegislash breakers.

Side comments about the Mega Gardevoir discussion: How many Latios run EQ? Honest question, I remember hearing about it a while ago as a Heatran lure and tried it out for a little but not much else beyond it.
What was GameFreak trying to encourage with a 20 point attack boost? Mixed Mega Gardevoir with Shadow Sneak? Is there some build we haven't discovered yet? Seriously, what the hell? Give it to Def or Speed lol. T_T

 

[totoTavros]

7.173 percent of Latios' run EQ

 

[Salemance]

Something that I keep failing to realize is that Gengar has the same offensive stats as Latios. I have no idea why. I think Gengar is amazing with all the different sets it can run, subdisable, LO attack, sash, etc. etc. and that possible diversity makes it really aggravating to deal with since if it's sash, I can't just switch in Bisharp and go "switch out or die" I'm not exactly directly in favor of it going to A+ just cause of its inability to take any hit whatsoever but I wouldn't be opposed to it either.
Oh Breloom, how I hate you so much. Why can't mold breaker shit on items too? T_T Sash, spore, bullet seed, mach punch, rock slide. HNGGGG!
I think Politoed should go B+, it's still very good and required if you ever wanna run rain, it's just kinda underwhelming beside that and with Deo-S now open for Rain Dance (Tornadus-I if you want prankster rain but who uses Tornadus-I?).
No comment on Krookodile apart from people are REALLY desperate for Aegislash breakers.

Side comments about the Mega Gardevoir discussion: How many Latios run EQ? Honest question, I remember hearing about it a while ago as a Heatran lure and tried it out for a little but not much else beyond it.
What was GameFreak trying to encourage with a 20 point attack boost? Mixed Mega Gardevoir with Shadow Sneak? Is there some build we haven't discovered yet? Seriously, what the hell? Give it to Def or Speed lol. T_T

Idk, I saw a Gard surprise me by using Shadow Sneak to kill something in one of my matches gainst something it should have lost too so there might be some merit there.........not really, but it worked non the less.

I approve of Gengar to A+ just cause he literally does too much and so much for any team I put him on. I myself am a fan of the SubDisable set as it is beautiful gainst choice attackers and many Pokémon like Terrakion who utilize the EdgQuake combo that find oppurtunities to Sub and attack him is almost child's play. He is said to have low bulk, and yah, its not Garchomp levels at all, but he does end up surviving a fair amount more than most give him credit for. Sure its still a 2HKO, but he can live some decent things if needed. His power is the winning factor altogether though is his variation as you will never know what he is gonna run which is why I support the bump more than anything else really.

 

[Jukain]

let's be realistic here, taunt subwisp and /maybe/ dbond 3 atks are the only good gar sets. it isn't that versatile. a pretty good stallbreaker but not a+ material. the other mons in a+ are the premier this and that, top-tier powerhouses. gar simply doesn't fit there. it's not ou's premier stallbreaker, it isn't a top-tier staple, it doesn't belong with those pokemon.

 

[the-bumper-car]

Just saying the viability of a pokemon shouldn't be based on the player using it. The fact that breloom forces you're oponent to make 50/50 plays, revenge kills top threats like azum, bisharp, mega ttar, mega gyara ect, and is a great last minute sporer aswell as leaving you in a good position if played well means it is definately an A- poke.

Really? Because I think it should. Mons go down in viability because of how risky they are to use, while mons that are easy to use/fit in on a team go up in viability. Heck, the S and A+/A mons almost all have "Can be easily slapped on to a team, have multiple viable sets, and are easy to use" as their commonalities. Breloom doesn't have any of those 3 traits in my opinion. The fact that Breloom's game is so dependent on Spore, Sash, and prediction means its too easy to disrupt Breloom's game, and by extension his user's game. Look at all the qualifiers people put when describing Breloom - "he can counter X, but if Sash is intact" "he can counter Y, but if Sleep Clause hasn't been triggered". These don't make it a bad mon, per se, since those qualifiers are reasonable - unlike, say, some other mons that were described as "Could OHKO the whole tier if they're at +2, and rocks, 3 layers of spikes, and sticky web is on the opponent's side and Sun is up" - but these should be factored in when rating Breloom. After all, these rankings are primarily for new players who want to know what's good and what's not, and Breloom is going to be a huge shock to them thanks to the potential misplays it causes ON BOTH SIDES.

 

[trc]

I can give you a post with substance alexwolf, sorry for not before, I was on my phone :x

Politoed is solidly A- in my opinion. The rank of Politoed should be the rank we consider rain hyper offense in the current metagame. For me, this rank is indicative of the viability of this strategy. While it is a strategy which requires a lot of momentum moreso than standard offenses, and while it doesn't offer much diversity, it isn't difficult to play, and is extraordinarily effective for the same reasons that FlyingSpam is: an overwhelming of the Pokemon that resist a specific type. Now Politoed obviously isn't the best Pokemon on its own, but it does have advantages that make not entirely useless, such as Encore and Scald, as well as a decent defensive typin and sufficient bulk to continually switch in and out. Usually saccing a Pokemon is done because it gives momentum to the team, but in Politoed's case, saccing it provides much more momentum than another Pokemon, as it enables a teammate to come in and destroy something, putting immense pressure on the other team and forcing them to sac something to regain momentum. When we think of the reasons to put Politoed in A- rank, we have to consider that it not only makes a ton of Pokemon more viable, but it supports an entire playstyle, a great playstyle. When comparing a Pokemon such as Kabutops with and without rain support we see that the effects of Politoed heavily increase its viability.

may comment on other later (except for krook cos never used it. my opinion is that loom and gar should also be a- but ill have to post some reasoning later :x)

 

[boo118]

The problem with gengar that i find, is that it is hard to fit onto a team, unless you build a team around it. Its move pool isn't apt enough for Hyper Offence. Its Def aren't exactly great and gets ohko'd by talon brave bird, not even banded. It does have the same offensive stats as Latios, however it does not have the surprising bulk of latios, to survive a few hits. Furthermore latios gains access to moves like psyshock to attack the physical side, and the ability to nuke opponents with draco meteor. Whereas the hardest gengar can hit something with is a STAB sludge wave. I know i am comparing gengar to a latios, but i just don't see gengar in an offensive role anymore. It has become more of a wall breaker with access to trick, taunt, sub, WoW etc. Thats why i don't think gengar should move up from A. If anything, gengar could potentially move down to A- in my opinion.

 

[Karxrida]

This. Seriously people, unless you're talking about the pros and cons of using DD MTyranitar/Gyara/ZardX over Dragonite, stop using the 'it takes up a Mega slot' as an argument. If a team needs a certain Mega Pokemon, its going to use said mega over others because it fits. This argument honestly died a month before MZard Y was moved out of S Rank.

The argument is completely valid if the Mega receives competition for its role by a non-Mega; why else are Mega Blastoise and Mega Garchomp ranked lower than Excadrill and Kyurem-B, respectively, even though they are technically better at their jobs? Because the opportunity cost of using them is too high.

 

[Durant]

The argument is completely valid if the Mega receives competition for its role by a non-Mega; why else are Mega Blastoise and Mega Garchomp ranked lower than Excadrill and Kyurem-B, respectively, even though they are technically better at their jobs? Because the opportunity cost of using them is too high.

Well actually one of the big problem with Mega Blastoise was it's lack of recovery outside of Rest. But I agree that taking up a mega slot can be a downside and that is also the reason Pokemon like Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl aren't as good as they could have been.

 

[Ninja Charizard]

The argument is completely valid if the Mega receives competition for its role by a non-Mega; why else are Mega Blastoise and Mega Garchomp ranked lower than Excadrill and Kyurem-B, respectively, even though they are technically better at their jobs? Because the opportunity cost of using them is too high.

The opportunity cost for what? A sweeper? Who says every team need a mega sweeper? Maybe you already have that covered, or maybe you don't think your team needs a sweeper at all, but you want a great spinner/wallbreaker, and one of these megas is what your team needs.

 

[Andrew]

Competition from non-mega form is just like competition from any other pokemon. So you want to use M-Garchomp? well, you obviously don't need a scarf chomp on your team, maybe you have a scarf excadrill. The same competition comes into play when you think about pokemon that are similar or play similar roles i.e. Tornadus v Tornadus-T. You can't use both, species clause, so this argument is not new. You might want to use both chansey and blissey but you can't...plus blissey is almost completely outclassed by chansey. The same goes for guys like Chomp/Mega Chomp. THe fact that it's a mega doesn't necessarily detract from it's viability - the fact that it's outclassed does.

 

[jbtc10]

You can't use both, species clause, so this argument is not new. You might want to use both chansey and blissey but you can't...

You can, because they're not the same species.

But yeah, the "it uses your mega slot" argument does have some merit to it, but lately most of the frequently used megas are all different enough that they aren't directly competing with one another so you chose them based on what your team would benefit from the most. Blastoise is generally the best spinner, Venu is generally considered the best wall, Zard-X is generally considered the best DD sweeper, etc.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Breloom supporters are not a hive mind that use it exactly the same way.

I use LO Breloom, so I'm more likely to save it for later. I only lead with it if I predict a lead it beats, such as Greninja. And I certainly won't lead with it if I see a Deoxys-D on team preview.

Now, if I used it with Sash, I'd lead more often with it, but again, not against Deo-D. But let's face the facts, how many things can lead against Deo-D and reliably obtain hazard advantage against it? I think that says more about Deo-D's brokeness in the meta than about Breloom.

And I predominantly utilise the Toxicheal Breloom, although I have also used the LO Breloom, Sashloom and, to a limited extent, the CB Breloom. The thing, for me, is that the various Breloom sets all function very differently insofar as they are optimised to come in against and to counter different Pokemon. The only thing they really all have in common (gimmicky Natural Gift sets aside) is an inability to cope with Mega Venusaur, who is functionally the only real universal counter that Breloom has. The way I see it, Sashloom is simply the most commonly used because it has the lowest risk - keep hazards off the field, and if Mega Venu isn't on the opposing team something is going to sleep. Other Breloom variants are not less useful; they are simply harder to use.

Regardless, I'm having to go to the hospital for suspected meningitis, so I'm bowing out of the discussion at this point.

 

[Rhaegar]

Honestly, what is Amoonguss still doing at B?
This thing is such a solid inclusion on any balanced or stall team and is by far the best switch in to both Keldeo and any variant of Aegislash barring Head Smash. It's doing so well. Much better than Venusaur. Ranking it below Diggersby, regular Scizor, regular Gyarados, and Mega Garchomp is just ridiculous. Not to mention it shares it's rank with Lucario. I can't believe no one has noticed it yet and anyone who thinks Amoonguss belongs in B isn't really aware of the meta.

I think Amoonguss should be A.

Yes, I think this mon should be three ranks up from where it is now. It's certainly better in this meta than Ferrothorn which is also at A and is doing better than defensive Venusaur thanks to 100% sleep and the ability to switch into things and then put something to sleep and switch out regaining health as if nothing happened to it. Venusaur switches into Keldeo and then has to stay in to Synthesis and gets matched up against a threat as Keldeo switches out. If people want to complain that Amoonguss is weak on the physical side then max it's defense and strap an AV on it and it now has the physical bulk of a 120 D Megasaur and the special bulk of a 252+ SpD Megasaur while having the advantage of Regenrator.

I know Venusaur is great when played offensive but Amoonguss completely outclasses defensive Megasaur without taking up a mega slot.

Now I don't know how many would agree with me since I guess Amoonguss is still B for a reason, but even putting aside how amazing it is in general, you'd think the only reliable (inb4 Mandi vs SubToxic) switch-in to the most imbalanced threat in the meta would be given a decent rank.

Also, this thing just trolls the shit out of offensive teams with at least one of Keldeo, Aegislash, Azumarill or even Thundurus (=>every offensive team) since after it switches into them something has to fall asleep except for Breloom (the only Spore-immune Pokemon used on offense) which Amoonguss destroys, but mostly just snorts at and Spores again since Brelooms not staying in anyway.

Any counter arguments which do not involve saying that Amoonguss is only good for stall are welcome and appreciated. If this thing belongs in B there has to be a good reason for it.

 

[Ropeburn]

I think Amoonguss should be A.

What set(s) do you think justifies this jump? I haven't had any experience with Amoonguss since the weather nerf so I don't know what ev spread they run.