most things that can switch into a hydregon is pretty bulky, and to lure in rotom youll need something more offensive, the best i can think off is azumarill to do these two things
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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What you're asking for here is pretty strange. I'm surprised you see enough Hydreis in OU that you feel the need to try to counter it. Specially defensive Mega Venu is the best thing I can think of off the top of my head to take on both of these threats. It may take some time to whittle down Hydreigon, but eventually you'll come out on top, assuming you run Synthesis and your opponent doesn't hax you too bad. If it has Roost, it might give you a bit more trouble.
Tiers are determined by usage.
My main special wall on my team is MirrorMola, but Mirror Coat doesn't work on Hydreigon so I basically have to resort to Scalding it for 8% and hoping for burns. My team also has an issue with Rotom-W unless it's literally the only pokemon left so I can catch it with a Mirror Coat or status before it just Volt Turns out. That's why I was asking if there was something that could take both on. Maybe I should have worded it in reverse since Rotom-W is definitely more common and the harder one to beat. So, something that lures in and beats Rotom-W while also being able to win the 1v1 vs Hydreigon, is what I'm looking for.
I know. But, if it's so good, why don't the usage stats reflect that? And how is Mismagius ranked higher in the RU viability rankings than in the NU ones? How does that make sense? And it's ranked A- in RU, so it's not like it's just better in RU but just isn't viable enough for no one to use it. What determines a Pokemon's viability? And why does it not always correlate positively with usage (and sometimes apparently negatively)?
Just because it's good doesn't mean people use it. Some people don't know it's good, some people are bad in general, for others, it just doesn't fit on their team. It could also be a "diamond in the rough" or something that has only recently been "discovered," as it were, perhaps dismissed as a gimmick or inferior in the past until recent innovation.
Aromatisse isn't on the viability rankings iirc. It certainly is not anywhere near A.
Keep in mind that viability rankings are set for each pokemon based only on their performance within their particular tier. A pokemon having an A in one tier says nothing about what it would have in another tier. Different tiers have different threats to watch out for, so while I don't know the exact answer to the Mismagius question, my guess is that while players can use NU pokemon in RU, you see different threats in RU in general that maybe Mismagius is just more useful for. I'd ask in the RU/NU forum SQSA threads if you want the specific answer.
As for tiering itself, it's done by usage because that's a clean, objective way to tier. It's true that usage isn't always a perfect correlation with viability (though in many cases it is, such as with Thundurus in OU or Xerneas in Ubers), but it's the easiest way to get objective statistics on a pokemon's viability because the assumption is that people battling generally want to win and people who want to win will gravitate toward pokemon they find make it easiest to do that. I.e., the strongest/most useful pokemon. That said, it doesn't mean the people playing won't be slow to come to the same conclusions as the people who debate rankings on the viability threads, or that they will ever come to those same conclusions. For example, Donphan was used quite a lot in early XY, even though it's really not OU-viable.
By tiering based solely on usage stats, the sample size becomes humongous which is more desirable than having a few people decide on tiering using subjective arguments. Viability rankings themselves don't actually affect competitive play so the use of more subjective arguments by fewer people isn't as problematic there.
Well, it's not a directly related to OU question, but I've heard people rumouring there was a suspect test in place for banning Greninja, CharY and some other mons, and I said the rumour was false, since I was not seeing anything going on here. It's false, isn't it? There isn't any suspect test going on after Aegis was banned, right?
I'm pretty sure I saw alexwolf write somewhere that there's going to be a suspect test in the very near future--on what, I'm not exactly sure, although I'm assuming it'll be on Mega Mawile or the likes.
If there was another suspect test, it would be a sticky in this forum
Thanks a lot. That's basically what I said to my friend "stop spreading rumours without looking at Smogon first"
On a related topic, why hasn't the subject of testing charizard come up yet? I mean, it forces 50/50s just as much as aegislash. There are just so many sets it can run, bulky SD, bulky WoW, Bulky DD, fast DD, mixed attacker, BellyZard, and that's only for one mega! I've lost many a chansey to CharX and many a rotom to CharY due to bad mega prediction (and I honestly hope I'm not the only one.) It's kind of guaranteed you're going to make a bad play when charizard comes in, because you have no idea what it'll do next.
I'm just saying, there's no definitive counter to charizard as a whole (while each form has it's checks) primarily because of the damn 50/50s. It's essentially a bulkier mega-luke with more versatility but not as much mind-blowing power.
(if anything I said sounds extra extra stupid please pardon me under noob clause)
I'm just saying, there's no definitive counter to charizard as a whole (while each form has it's checks) primarily because of the damn 50/50s. It's essentially a bulkier mega-luke with more versatility but not as much mind-blowing power.
(if anything I said sounds extra extra stupid please pardon me under noob clause)
Oh believe me, it totally has come up (i.e. a Charizard X test). According to an OU mod in the Aegislash thread, Mawile is likely to be the next suspect for hopefully very obvious reasons, but according to the rumours (please don't hold any of these statements against me, just reiterating what I've heard people say on this forum) there have been a lot of calls for testing the genies and Char X afterwards.
The best tip I've read for dealing with Charizard is, when in doubt assume Char X, that one's much more dangerous. If you wrongly guess Char Y, you're gonna lose one mon at worst, if you wrongly guess Char X, you're gonna lose your entire team at worst. I'm not the best at recognising which mega is used via team preview, but pursuit trappers are a hint that you're dealing with Char Y, as most of its checks (e.g. the Latis) are pursuit weak. Also, they serve different roles - Char X generally being a setup sweeper/win condition, Char Y being a wallbreaker - so you can also deduce it by checking which role your opponent's team would need Charizard for.
Thanks so much for that, really helpful. But I still don't get it though-
While I understand how Lati@s check Zardex, what about ZardY? I mean, I'm pretty sure ZardY's naturally high base SpD allow it to live most draco meteors. Trust me, I've lost many a Latios to surprise neutral move (hell, even the rare Dpulse) thinking the same thing that you did-
Then again, you're still right about how one mon is lost at worst when charizard Y is pulled out. Or rather, the entire team in the case of stall, save chansey who already gets 3HKO'd by Fire Blast(?), and is therefore absolutely screwed with likely prior damage+hazards+something that does 30+% damage, I think, even with recovery.
So far, iirc, I've seen only one pursuit trapper run in conjunction with Mega Charizard Y, which was TTar. (noobly to begin with, weather clash much?) The only other three pursuit trappers I'm sure about are Aegislash (which just got banned) Scizor, and Bisharp (both would prefer knock off.) Little help there, please? c:
EDIT:
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 202-238 (28.6 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 220-261 (31.2 - 37%) -- 79.8% chance to 3HKO
I've been running into a lot of modest zards then. Damn.
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Ok back to my question on why Jirachi isn't banned. I still don't get it. I know it is weak to Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ground, and that electric types block paralysis, but 100/100/100 is way too bulky to Ohko. That means no matter what, you are getting paralyzed by thunderstorm. If you bring in an electric type, you still have to make it passed the flinches and physical hits wearing you down.
Are Excadrill, Garchomp and Mega Man the only reliable counters? Nothing else can hit back hard enough to v get through subs and wishes
Are Excadrill, Garchomp and Mega Man the only reliable counters? Nothing else can hit back hard enough to v get through subs and wishes
While I agree with you mostly (and honestly wish I could answer you) who the hell is megaman? oh wait-
EDIT: Oh my fuck, mega manectric. Jesus christ. Please let me be wrong, that's pathetic.
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From what I know, the Latis check the standard Zard Y set, which is Fire Blast/Solarbeam/Focus Blast or maybe Earthquake/Roost. I know it's shaky in case of coverage moves (well actually DPulse is the only one I can think of because Air Slash is complete and utter shit on Zard Y), and Psyshock is better to deal with it anyway because it will live Draco Meteor (Psyshock too, it's a little bit weaker, but that's not gonna miss and not gonna render you setup bait). (And my tip of 'assume Zard X' was a worst case scenario of course; Zard X is more dangerous, but that doesn't make Zard Y not dangerous). Bisharp is can actually be assumed to be a trapper, because it likes to run triple dark STAB (Sucker Punch/Knock Off/Pursuit; it's not a matter of Knock Off vs. Pursuit, it's a matter of Pursuit vs. Swords Dance, and Swords Dance is actually rather dispensable because of Defiant. It still doesn't run Pursuit all the time, but it does if it needs it).
And those were just some tips I heard from more expert players that somewhat worked for me, I'm not the best myself though so I don't know if I can be of much help otherwise :(
-1 252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 196 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-T: 58-70 (15.7 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
96 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 320-378 (93.5 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 76-91 (17.9 - 21.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 260-308 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 72-85 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 8HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 206-246 (60.2 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I'll keep updating this. Assuming no 100% flinchax, physically defensive landorus-T and gliscor get jirachi good while being immune to twave. Mandibuzz can 2HKO with foul play, 3HKO with knock off+item (if you run that) but it's susceptible to t-wave.
I'm also gonna go out and say that bulky WoW zard with EQ (the set I run on my stall team) could counter the standard flinchax set pretty well too. That's a total of seven reliable checks/counters. I would also find Slowbro worthy of note, I hear it keeps it at bay in UU, as it resists Dual stabs and can possibly burn with scald. I'll keep looking though, but you have to admit that most of these mons are rather common on a well-balanced team to begin with...
EDIT: that's all I could find. Sorry if I missed out anything!
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Yeah the reason why it isn't banned and won't be anytime soon is simply for the fact that para flinch isn't really a reliable strategy as it was last gen. Also you have to realize that there are so many threatening things in the tier like OU where it can't stand out and that bulk ends up becoming only decent when premier wall breakers like Lando-I, Char Y, and M-Medicham are in the tier. Also just cause something can't be outright KO'd doesn't necessarily mean that's an issue. I mean look at stall lol. I can only speak so much on its use in UU but I know it's a pretty solid mon that pulls its weight but it still has some issues as well.
Since I've never actually tried out this combination before: If a Pokemon holding Life Orb uses Giga Drain, which happens first, HP restoration or Life Orb recoil? Just a matter of curiosity.
252 in Hp and Defense with an Assault Vest. Sap Sipper will be more handy especially to Counter spores and leech seed.
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