Linked

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

What else stops it dead in its sweep? If you have Stealth rocks up & Hidden power ground + Magne pull users there is nothing stopping your sweep. Pair it with Jumpluff and you can link Grassy terrain with Memento, giving you an excellent set up opportunity. It only needs Grassy terrain

There is actually quite a number of things because Grass is a bad attacking type. Skarmory, Air Balloon Heatran, and Assault Vest Amoonguss (I like it more than Spore) are the examples. Amoonguss 4x resist Energy ball and even if you run HP Fire over HP Ground, Amoonguss isn't 2HKO'd.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss in Sun: 200-237 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO

Well, the reason I say it isn't 2HKO'd is because to get +2 it needs you to click Growth + Nature Power, in this case Assault Vest Amoonguss is 4x resist. Also if you use Jumpluff Grassy Terrain with Memento, you can use it only once. Considering it needs Ninetales and Jumpluff alive before it can utilize its full potential, it needs a lot of work I say.

Also, a set that looks pretty mediocre but might be useful to get your poke safely in the field.

Cinccino @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Charm
- U-turn
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed/Rock Blast

Its fast, so it won't get damage unless it has priority. Very useful if you vs a Physical Attacker, because it can force switches or making it set up bait.

Edit: After using Stall teams in some battles, I say Stall is pretty good. It isn't bad as I thought would be. So no, this meta isn't all offensive based.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

There is actually quite a number of things because Grass is a bad attacking type. Skarmory, Air Balloon Heatran, and Assault Vest Amoonguss (I like it more than Spore) are the examples. Amoonguss 4x resist Energy ball and even if you run HP Fire over HP Ground, Amoonguss isn't 2HKO'd.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Whimsicott Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss in Sun: 200-237 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO

Well, the reason I say it isn't 2HKO'd is because to get +2 it needs you to click Growth + Nature Power, in this case Assault Vest Amoonguss is 4x resist. Also if you use Jumpluff Grassy Terrain with Memento, you can use it only once. Considering it needs Ninetales and Jumpluff alive before it can utilize its full potential, it needs a lot of work I say.

Also, a set that looks pretty mediocre but might be useful to get your poke safely in the field.

Cinccino @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Charm
- U-turn
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed/Rock Blast

Its fast, so it won't get damage unless it has priority. Very useful if you vs a Physical Attacker, because it can force switches or making it set up bait.

Edit: After using Stall teams in some battles, I say Stall is pretty good. It isn't bad as I thought would be. So no, this meta isn't all offensive based.

All those counters are only seen on Defensive teams... Heatran switches in on an energy ball and loses its air ballon. Skarmory dies to +2 HP Fire. Amoongus is pretty bad in general, but it is a counter from what I can see.

Give Cinccino Kings rock

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

All those counters are only seen on Defensive teams... Heatran switches in on an energy ball and loses its air ballon. Skarmory dies to +2 HP Fire. Amoongus is pretty bad in general, but it is a counter from what I can see.

Give Cinccino Kings rock

Well, Heatran, Skarmory and Ferrothorn are checks depending on what Hidden Power it use. Amoonguss is a counter, and it isn't "pretty bad in general." It's very good because it counters Manaphy and Clefable by resetting stat changes with Clear Smog. Me and some people rank it A because of it.

Actually there are more checks than that. Dragonite resist Grass, Fire and immune to Ground, though it got destroyed by Moonblast if it carry one (judging by that set Isa Simple posted, it doesn't carry one). Charizard and Talonflame if there are no Stealth Rock in the field.

Edit: It does carry one. I was looking at the Choice Specs set >_>

Anyway, Dragonite can only check it if it's Scarfed (which is rare), but there are still a numberof notable checks to it.

 

[Isa Simple]

Whimsicott is pretty epic once it gets going but I don't think it is broken.

The main problem is it is really hard to set up and maintain Grassy Terrain + Sun, then get Whimsy / Venusaur is safely without giving up too much momentum.
I have found a few good combinations though. Of recent I've been testing eject button to great effect.

At 1st it was SR lead and then switching Eject Button Ninetales into a contact move, going out to Chlorophyl Jumpluff or Shifty. Jumpluff with Grassy Terrain and U-Turn/Memento or Shiftry with either Fake Out + Grassy Terrain or Grassy Terrain Explosion.

But what's worked best so far is this:

Serperior @ Eject Button
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe or 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grassy Terrain
- Sunny Day
- Leaf Storm / Taunt / Glare
- Synthesis / Taunt / Glare

Lead with Serp, set up and get phased out, sweep as much as you can, set up once more.

But yeah a lot of pressure can prevent setting up the conditions and there are so many grass resists, including heaps being 4x (though most can be muscled passed but still). Whismy is extremely fun to use and effective but not broken. EDIT to above: LO Whimsy runs Moonblast for D-nite and such. Specs Whimsy can run Moonblast, but if you have the support there are usually better options. Moonblast on either set is mostly used when you are outside of Sun and Terrain.

I promise to post some replays once I'm smart enough to save some.

Till then lets move away from all that for a moment with some other random sets and what not.

This is all just random theorymon but w/e

1st we have Belly Drum + Roost / Belly Drum + Recover for Mega Charizard X / Mega Slowbro respectively.

Mega Charizard X was the obvious one but I feel like I probably isn't fast enough to pull this off since I've gathered that most offensive threats are either 110+ or scarfed (or both).
But for some reason I feel like Mega Slowbro with +6 Drain Punch may actually be able to pull it off.

Slowbro @ Slowbroite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Recover
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt / Aqua Tail

Though it would be more of a late game win con. Once special threats and unaware users have been cleared out.

I was thinking about Lock On + Zap Cannon Magnezone but then I noticed Magnezone is ranked really high. Is this why? Among other things?

And lastly I was thinking what the best Sub-Passer would be and ended at this but I feel really conflicted about it.

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off

With Mienshao's speed + Scarf, unless you are up against priority you are guaranteed to bring something in safely with Sub-Pass. Plus Mienshao takes 0 damage in the process thanks to Regenerator. In fact being Fighting type it resists rocks, so it can come in on rocks, sub-pass and still be max health next time it comes in. So if Mienshao gets in untouched it is the best momentum grabber in the game. The reason this is so conflicting is that this is effectively what Fake-Turn Mienshao achieves as well. So it is a toss up between whether you want chip damage, or the possibility of keeping a sub intact. On Fake-Turn teams Fake-Turn Mienshao is obviously the better option but a believe that with correct passing you could keep those subs in tact and use this to crush the opponent. For example, Sub-Passing to something like Multiscale Dragonite as its subs are really hard to break sometimes, giving Dragonite plenty of free set up. (That may be a poor example because I know that Inner Focus is a strong option of D-Nite). But yeah. The pivot game is strong with this one. Question is, is it strong enough to get use over its pivoting counterpart?

EDIT: Just remembered that double linked attacking moves will break the subs and do damage, but still the right switch may still hold the sub and not all pokemon have two attacking moves linked.
Also forgot to mention that Mienshao can still revenge kill a poke with scarfed HJK or cripple something with Knock Off.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Tier changes:

Clefable from A+ to S.
It can "revenge Stall" a lot of pokes either by Cosmic Power or Calm Mind.

Whimsicott to C+ to B.
It has more uses than I thought, even though they require more support.

Also, there are no discussion about Aegislash suspect. How are we gonna reach a decision?

 

[Hack_Guy]

Tier changes:

Clefable from A+ to S.
It can "revenge Stall" a lot of pokes either by Cosmic Power or Calm Mind.

Whimsicott to C+ to B.
It has more uses than I thought, even though they require more support.

Also, there are no discussion about Aegislash suspect. How are we gonna reach a decision?

Ill update the OP as soon as possible :]
Also, the OU suspect should end soon, so if it gets unbanned there, i'll end the suspect

 

[M'joe'ra]

I was thinking about Lock On + Zap Cannon Magnezone but then I noticed Magnezone is ranked really high. Is this why? Among other things?

The reason why zone is ranked so high is because of it's ability to trap and take out one of the premier stoppers of faketurn being ferrothorn. Getting rid of ferro is huge due to the fact that you might be taking twice as much damage from iron barbs and possibly rocky helmet than you normally would. Some other things that zone can do is yes, lock on + zap cannon, along with scarf t-bolt + flash cannon to outspeed mega diancie and talonflame as long as either of them don't click their steel coverage move. Another neat set is a slow sub + t-bolt or flash cannon set with either analytic for added damage or magnet pull for subbing up and beating ferros. All of those above reasons combined with access to volt switch is why it is in A rank.

Edit (because once again screw double posting): Hack_Guy you really need to update the Viability rankings on page one because its a couple updates behind, here is what needs to be updated:

Amoonguss to from A- to A
Mega Venusaur from A to B+
Mega Slowbro from B to B+
Mega Sableye from C to B-
Clefable from A+ to S
Whimsicott to C+ to B

 

[Imperator Romanum]

My opinion on Aegislash is that you lose nothing from unbanning it and gain immensely. You get a counter to various gimmicky strategy and you give stall a viable way to beat those gimmicks. Also a hard check to Talonflame

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

I disagree with making Clefable the same rank as Talonflame. Clefable is an amazing poke that's somewhat necessary for almost all teams, but I feel it's easier to dismantle than Talon. For instance, Taunt utterly destroys Clef sets, Clear Smog removes any set up potential, and fast sleep just make you a sitting duck. Talon on the other hand doesn't care about Taunt, doesn't need set up to have insane power, and outspeeds every Prankster user in the game, probably OHKOing them before they can blink. I think we should split the S rank up, and make Clef S- with Talon at S or S+.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I disagree with making Clefable the same rank as Talonflame. Clefable is an amazing poke that's somewhat necessary for almost all teams, but I feel it's easier to dismantle than Talon. For instance, Taunt utterly destroys Clef sets, Clear Smog removes any set up potential, and fast sleep just make you a sitting duck. Talon on the other hand doesn't care about Taunt, doesn't need set up to have insane power, and outspeeds every Prankster user in the game, probably OHKOing them before they can blink. I think we should split the S rank up, and make Clef S- with Talon at S or S+.

That feels very bias. You list up the things that really screw over Clefable but you don't mention them. You essentially comparing two pokemon who preform different roles. Clefable and Talonflame are extremely different. Clefable is a support pokemon, when you boil it down. Talonflame is a revenge killer / sweeper. Saying Talonflame doesn't care about taunt is like saying Landorus-I is bad because it can't take Hydro pumps, while Keldeo can. We shouldn't split up the S rank, there is no reason to. Clefable is easy to check while Talonflame is easy to counter, but they're both excellent at every role they're used for.

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

That feels very bias. You list up the things that really screw over Clefable but you don't mention them. You essentially comparing two pokemon who preform different roles. Clefable and Talonflame are extremely different. Clefable is a support pokemon, when you boil it down. Talonflame is a revenge killer / sweeper. Saying Talonflame doesn't care about taunt is like saying Landorus-I is bad because it can't take Hydro pumps, while Keldeo can. We shouldn't split up the S rank, there is no reason to. Clefable is easy to check while Talonflame is easy to counter, but they're both excellent at every role they're used for.

I figured someone would bring up their separate roles, which is a valid argument, but honestly dealing with Talonflame is extremely difficult. The humongous lack of priority in the meta paves the way for Talon's smooth sailing when it comes to Banded sets. The only real disadvantages that Talon has it that it wears itself down by killing things and Stealth Rocks also screws it, but taking a turn for Stealth Rock is usually a bad idea, and linking it causes you to miss out on a lot of added power. Rhyperior is a great way to deal with Talonflame, but seriously... that's the ONLY reliable thing. Fully defensive Rotom-W narrowly avoids a 2HKO, meaning a bad prediction will get you killed, and it can only be sent in on Talon ONE TIME in a match assuming no Pain Split recovery was in bewteen. Meanwhile there are a variety of ways to deal with Clef. Even with their different roles, the two pokes are both mainly for sweeping teams after their checks/counters have been dealt with. And as far as that role goes, Talon is considerably better. I've been using Weavile a lot and it's super powerful, but I couldn't kill Clefable with it for the life of me (even on switch in). Then i discovered Weavile has Iron Tail, and it can now deal with Clef with relative ease. There is no move in this whole game that you can just throw on a poke like that to deal with Talon. I think it's very notable (even though I said it before) that no Prankster poke in the game is as fast as Talon, so there's literally nothing you can do. I could have said Clef should go back to A+, but I completely agree on how strong it is, therefore S- is the perfect fit I think

 

[M'joe'ra]

I figured someone would bring up their separate roles, which is a valid argument, but honestly dealing with Talonflame is extremely difficult. The humongous lack of priority in the meta paves the way for Talon's smooth sailing when it comes to Banded sets. The only real disadvantages that Talon has it that it wears itself down by killing things and Stealth Rocks also screws it, but taking a turn for Stealth Rock is usually a bad idea, and linking it causes you to miss out on a lot of added power. Rhyperior is a great way to deal with Talonflame, but seriously... that's the ONLY reliable thing. Fully defensive Rotom-W narrowly avoids a 2HKO, meaning a bad prediction will get you killed, and it can only be sent in on Talon ONE TIME in a match assuming no Pain Split recovery was in bewteen. Meanwhile there are a variety of ways to deal with Clef. Even with their different roles, the two pokes are both mainly for sweeping teams after their checks/counters have been dealt with. And as far as that role goes, Talon is considerably better. I've been using Weavile a lot and it's super powerful, but I couldn't kill Clefable with it for the life of me (even on switch in). Then i discovered Weavile has Iron Tail, and it can now deal with Clef with relative ease. There is no move in this whole game that you can just throw on a poke like that to deal with Talon. I think it's very notable (even though I said it before) that no Prankster poke in the game is as fast as Talon, so there's literally nothing you can do. I could have said Clef should go back to A+, but I completely agree on how strong it is, therefore S- is the perfect fit I think

-Cough Cough Rhyperior Cough cough-
Edit: Just for those who have no idea what I am talking about, Rhyperior can come in multiple times on talon freely and either ko back, set up rocks, deal massive damage to the opponent's team or phase. Heck if you really want to you can use toxic to deal with an incoming clefable.

2nd Edit: Rip me and my terrible scanning ability

 

[TheBlueFiretruck]

-Cough Cough Rhyperior Cough cough-
Edit: Just for those who have no idea what I am talking about, Rhyperior can come in multiple times on talon freely and either ko back, set up rocks, deal massive damage to the opponent's team or phase. Heck if you really want to you can use toxic to deal with an incoming clefable.

I mentioned Rhyp as the only reliable counter, and he does a great job of doing that. But Rhyp takes up a whole Pokemon slot and Iron Tail/Toxic/Taunt/Spore doesn't. That to me is the difference between the two; Talon takes considerably larger amounts of effort to deal with than Clef, making it inherently stronger than it. They're both great mons, but Talonflame is just better in my eyes, so they shouldn't be the same rank.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I figured someone would bring up their separate roles, which is a valid argument, but honestly dealing with Talonflame is extremely difficult. The humongous lack of priority in the meta paves the way for Talon's smooth sailing when it comes to Banded sets. The only real disadvantages that Talon has it that it wears itself down by killing things and Stealth Rocks also screws it, but taking a turn for Stealth Rock is usually a bad idea, and linking it causes you to miss out on a lot of added power. Rhyperior is a great way to deal with Talonflame, but seriously... that's the ONLY reliable thing. Fully defensive Rotom-W narrowly avoids a 2HKO, meaning a bad prediction will get you killed, and it can only be sent in on Talon ONE TIME in a match assuming no Pain Split recovery was in bewteen. Meanwhile there are a variety of ways to deal with Clef. Even with their different roles, the two pokes are both mainly for sweeping teams after their checks/counters have been dealt with. And as far as that role goes, Talon is considerably better. I've been using Weavile a lot and it's super powerful, but I couldn't kill Clefable with it for the life of me (even on switch in). Then i discovered Weavile has Iron Tail, and it can now deal with Clef with relative ease. There is no move in this whole game that you can just throw on a poke like that to deal with Talon. I think it's very notable (even though I said it before) that no Prankster poke in the game is as fast as Talon, so there's literally nothing you can do. I could have said Clef should go back to A+, but I completely agree on how strong it is, therefore S- is the perfect fit I think

I'm sorry, but how do your handle clefable? Talonflame is easier to counter because of both of its stabs being resisted by rock, so most rock types can come in for free. Talonflame is a pokemon you can counter without much difficulty, but it's difficult to check it because of its strong priority. Clefable is a pokemon that you're able to check without much difficulty. but it's gigantic movepool and ability allows it to beat all of said "counters". I also disagree with splitting up S rank already, we can make clef & talonflame S for now, and we'll see where to go from there.

 

[Hack_Guy]

I'm sorry, but how do your handle clefable? Talonflame is easier to counter because of both of its stabs being resisted by rock, so most rock types can come in for free. Talonflame is a pokemon you can counter without much difficulty, but it's difficult to check it because of its strong priority. Clefable is a pokemon that you're able to check without much difficulty. but it's gigantic movepool and ability allows it to beat all of said "counters". I also disagree with splitting up S rank already, we can make clef & talonflame S for now, and we'll see where to go from there.

Countering clefable really depends on the set it's running, Leftovers variants get beaten by Flinch Hax Jirachi, and rocky helmet variants also get beaten by jirachi with a little bit of luck involved. Non Unaware variants lose to setup sweepers like Shell Smash + Icicle spear cloyster or DDance + Sky Drop dnite.
The unaware sets also lose to toxic, because moonlight has horrible PP.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Countering clefable really depends on the set it's running, Leftovers variants get beaten by Flinch Hax Jirachi, and rocky helmet variants also get beaten by jirachi with a little bit of luck involved. Non Unaware variants lose to setup sweepers like Shell Smash + Icicle spear cloyster or DDance + Sky Drop dnite.
The unaware sets also lose to toxic, because moonlight has horrible PP.

of course. But you can't counter it, it's impossible. It's been discussed multiple times on the forums. You never know what set its running so your "counter" is only just a check depending on the set. Talonflame is very difficult to check as it can revenge kill and kill anything sustainable damage, I.E doesn't resist either of its stabs. But if you have a rock type on your team you'll be able to handle Talonflame without much easy

 

[Hack_Guy]

Right, so the Bug which occurred with regards to selecting a lead has been fixed! so that's out of the way now

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Wow I can't believe this thing exist.

Sableye 2.0 (Murkrow) @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Confuse Ray
- Roost
- Substitute/Foul Play

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Double post, but

Ill update the OP as soon as possible :]
Also, the OU suspect should end soon, so if it gets unbanned there, i'll end the suspect

The result has come out and Aegislash remains in Ubers. Because of this, the suspect continues.

Because the suspect isn't finished, we need opinions about this. So, do you guys want Aegislash unbanned in Linked?

 

[DarkeKnight]

Yes, definitely. The meta definitely needs a lot more walls and Aegi wouldn't be broken thanks to the enormous power creep.

 

[Isa Simple]

Yeah having Aegis in the meta would definitely give a lot more than it would take. Unban Aegislash.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I've been thinking about Aegislash for a while now, and after a lot of thought I personally think it would be a great thing for the meta. The stuff it would check has ways to get around it so it's not TOO overpowered (Wisp Talonflame for example) and it checks most physical attackers in a very physical oriented metagame. It gives stall a huge buff and promotes diversity in teambuilding as well. Despite the fact that it has King's Shield and excellent defenses, it CAN be worn down as it has no reliable recovery--the only recovery it gets is Leftovers, making it easy to wear down via Spikes and chip damage. Thus, I believe that unbanning Aegislash would be a good thing for Linked right now as it gives stall a buff while promoting diversity and skilled teambuilding in the metagame.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

For me, I think it should be unbanned. Here is my reason.

The Linked meta now (espcially offensive teams) are focused around Choice items or Physical Attackers. Things like Faketurn, Jirachi and Talonflame all uses Choice items (including Dragonite and Lucario for Extreme Speed variants). Also there are MANY Dragon Dance users while very few Quiver Dance users. Meaning DD Physical Sweepers like Dragonite or Charizard X rule the current Linked.

Having Aegislash would promote creativity of using things other than Choice items and Physical sweepers. Things like megas with no DD (Metagross, Lopunny) or Special Attackers like Landorus I are quite rarely used (unlike in OU) either because they have no powerful boosting moves (like Manaphy's Tail Glow) or they have better things than holding a Choice item (Landorus I should always hold Life Orb). At least with Aegislash, they have more uses.

It also encourages Talonflame or Jirachi to use things other than Choice items, like Talonflame with Will-o-wisp. Honestly, I'm tired of seeing Band Talonflame or Jirachi all the time, so this will be a nice change I think. Same goes for Dragon Dance users like Tyranitar, Dragonite and Mega Charizard X. This will make me see new sets other than those things.

 

[Slayer95]

PSA: There is actually Linked Ubers available in Pandora, so you can actually test Aegislash rather than theorymon it only :^)
I found this replay: take it how you wish.

 

[ScorrchingTheaph]

PSA: There is actually Linked Ubers available in Pandora, so you can actually test Aegislash rather than theorymon it only :^)
I found this replay: take it how you wish.

We've using ubers linked for testing for a while now. I think Hack mentioned it before.
Found it:

So as of late, there has been a lot of debate as to whether Aegislash could help balance out Linked via King's Shield. So as of now, there I will suspect Aegislash for an Unban
You can use the Linked Ubers option on pandora to test out how aegis works in the current metagame.