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Alright, i'm ending the aegislash suspect now
As the posts prior to this one have noted, Aegislash is incredible at stopping some of the more prominent physical threats in the tier, such as Talonflame and Jirachi, and after discussion with other players, Aegislash appears to have an overall positive effect on the metagame, therefore starting from now, Aegislash is unbanned
Tagging Slayer95 to update the code with the unban
As the posts prior to this one have noted, Aegislash is incredible at stopping some of the more prominent physical threats in the tier, such as Talonflame and Jirachi, and after discussion with other players, Aegislash appears to have an overall positive effect on the metagame, therefore starting from now, Aegislash is unbanned
Tagging Slayer95 to update the code with the unban
Well with Aegislash around to help deal with Fake Turn, I think one group of play styles to benefit would be those requiring manipulation of the field.
I mentioned a few of my Grassy Terrain ideas before but there is much more than that.
Thanks to being able to link two moves things like Gravity, Trick Room, Terrain, Weather and all them other Dazzles, have far less trouble with maintaining momentum while setting up their field conditions.
Landorus-I can set up Gravity and link it with Earth Power. Or a bulkier setter like Forretress could use Gravity linked with Volt Switch or Zap Cannon.
Gourgeist could link Trick Room to Explosion. I believe someone earlier stated the Uxie could set Trick Room linked with U-Turn or Baton Pass (can't remember which).
Mega Manectric or Ampharos could link Electric Terrain to Volt Switch.
I could go on but I won't. Basically all these unviable fields conditions are viable in this meta, as you can set up what you need, and still maintain presence and momentum at the same time. You are also able to get twice as much done while your conditions are up. They won't necessarily take the meta by storm. But they will diversify the meta as they are viable options that you may well run into on the ladder.
Fake Turn held these play styles back a lot. Of the links I mentioned the only one not stopped dead in its tracks by Fake Turn is the suicidal Gourgeist. Thanks to Aegislash being unbanned these teams have a fantastic option for a Fake Turn check. Or who knows, perhaps Aegislash's presence will reduce the usage of Fake Turn all together and these teams won't even need a Fake Turn check.
I mentioned a few of my Grassy Terrain ideas before but there is much more than that.
Thanks to being able to link two moves things like Gravity, Trick Room, Terrain, Weather and all them other Dazzles, have far less trouble with maintaining momentum while setting up their field conditions.
Landorus-I can set up Gravity and link it with Earth Power. Or a bulkier setter like Forretress could use Gravity linked with Volt Switch or Zap Cannon.
Gourgeist could link Trick Room to Explosion. I believe someone earlier stated the Uxie could set Trick Room linked with U-Turn or Baton Pass (can't remember which).
Mega Manectric or Ampharos could link Electric Terrain to Volt Switch.
I could go on but I won't. Basically all these unviable fields conditions are viable in this meta, as you can set up what you need, and still maintain presence and momentum at the same time. You are also able to get twice as much done while your conditions are up. They won't necessarily take the meta by storm. But they will diversify the meta as they are viable options that you may well run into on the ladder.
Fake Turn held these play styles back a lot. Of the links I mentioned the only one not stopped dead in its tracks by Fake Turn is the suicidal Gourgeist. Thanks to Aegislash being unbanned these teams have a fantastic option for a Fake Turn check. Or who knows, perhaps Aegislash's presence will reduce the usage of Fake Turn all together and these teams won't even need a Fake Turn check.
Doesn't Gravity's effect disappear if you use Gravity while it's already in effect?
Not from what I can tell. You're probably thinking of Trick Room. Even so, with Lando-I's power, I think it would be a waste of a link to just save a turn on setting up Gravity when it can drop Earth Power + Sludge Bomb or something like that.
That being said, Electric Terrain + Volt Switch looks devastating, especially with something that can defeat Ground-types --
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Landorus-I isn't exactly the bulkies, it struggles to set it up. Focus blast + Earth power is probably a better link if you manage to set up a thingy
Done!
If you run two attacking moves in a link with Life Orb as item, you'll get 20% recoil from your Life Orb, which is too much. Landorus I can run Life Orb + two attacks in a link while having no recoil at all. For that reason, I think its better for Landorus I to carry something like Earth Power + Sludge Wave in a link, just because of no Life Orb recoil when it's supposed to take away 20% of your health normally.
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
I'm confused, how does Landorus not get recoil?
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Sheer Force negates Life Orb recoil if the move used has secondary effects.
I'm nominating Landorus I to A.
Reason:
1. Poops on Clefable.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 257-304 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So if those two are linked together, Clefable would take 111.8% minimum at +1 SpD.
2. Can also destroy Amoonguss with Assault Vest.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 187-221 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 140-165 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO
This is with Assault Vest, meaning you won't have a chance to live if you use Spore sets.
3. If it has time to set up, Rock Polish outspeed all Scarf users and weather sweepers, meaning only priority can outspeed it.
4. Destroy Aegislash, as Earth Power 1HKOs it (unless it runs 252 HP / 252+ SpD, which is rare I think). Also destroys Rhyperior, even with Solid Rock.
5. This is probably quite subjective on my part, but from experience, Ice moves are rare in Linked, only seen in opposing Landorus I. Everyone relies on their STABs or moves with abusable effects (Fake Out, U-turn, Volt Switch, Knock Off). Considering it isn't that frail, I think it can live two hits as long as it isn't Specs/Band, so it can have time to set up Rock Polish.
6. Gravity lets it destroy Skarmory, Rotom W, Zapdos and Steel types that uses Air Balloon. Once those things are cleaned, time for your Talonflame to sweep.
Overall it is able to destroy almost anything that are slower than it, meaning it can be very dangerous if you let it use Rock Polish or Gravity, unless you use something like Chansey. Most important thing for me is, it destroys almost all of Talonflame's checks and counters, especially with the Gravity set. After it cleans its checks and counters, let your Talonflame sweep. Yes, you can stop it but biggest problem is, you don't know if it uses Rock Polish or Gravity. You plan to stop it with Rotom W or Skarmory, but you're screwed once you see Gravity. You can hope to revenge it with your Scarf user as long as it doesn't use Rock Polish, meaning you have to rely on Talonflame or you're screwed. It has many possibilities to destroy things just because of its power. Of course it has flaws, but its powerful enough to be in A rank.
Reason:
1. Poops on Clefable.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 257-304 (65.2 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So if those two are linked together, Clefable would take 111.8% minimum at +1 SpD.
2. Can also destroy Amoonguss with Assault Vest.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 187-221 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 140-165 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- 97.2% chance to 3HKO
This is with Assault Vest, meaning you won't have a chance to live if you use Spore sets.
3. If it has time to set up, Rock Polish outspeed all Scarf users and weather sweepers, meaning only priority can outspeed it.
4. Destroy Aegislash, as Earth Power 1HKOs it (unless it runs 252 HP / 252+ SpD, which is rare I think). Also destroys Rhyperior, even with Solid Rock.
5. This is probably quite subjective on my part, but from experience, Ice moves are rare in Linked, only seen in opposing Landorus I. Everyone relies on their STABs or moves with abusable effects (Fake Out, U-turn, Volt Switch, Knock Off). Considering it isn't that frail, I think it can live two hits as long as it isn't Specs/Band, so it can have time to set up Rock Polish.
6. Gravity lets it destroy Skarmory, Rotom W, Zapdos and Steel types that uses Air Balloon. Once those things are cleaned, time for your Talonflame to sweep.
Overall it is able to destroy almost anything that are slower than it, meaning it can be very dangerous if you let it use Rock Polish or Gravity, unless you use something like Chansey. Most important thing for me is, it destroys almost all of Talonflame's checks and counters, especially with the Gravity set. After it cleans its checks and counters, let your Talonflame sweep. Yes, you can stop it but biggest problem is, you don't know if it uses Rock Polish or Gravity. You plan to stop it with Rotom W or Skarmory, but you're screwed once you see Gravity. You can hope to revenge it with your Scarf user as long as it doesn't use Rock Polish, meaning you have to rely on Talonflame or you're screwed. It has many possibilities to destroy things just because of its power. Of course it has flaws, but its powerful enough to be in A rank.
InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
The only problem with that is Gliscor is very common, and Aerial Ace doesn't break its Sub. I think BB first is fine. It could be mentioned that you can reverse the positions if you have another way to deal with Gliscor though.
Please don't tell me people are actually running Aerial Ace on Talonflame? Acrobatics is only 5BP weaker with a Choice Band, and on the off-chance that you take a Knock Off, you lose significantly less power.
As for Gliscor, I run Taunt on Talonflame. Even in the case of needing to put Brave Bird first to break max pdef Gliscor's sub, banded Acrobatics does a pittance to it anyways. Meanwhile, Taunt typically shuts Gliscor down, as it's rare to see it run an attacking move besides Earthquake -- and then, of course, you don't have to worry about breaking Substitutes.
Relevant calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Acrobatics (55 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 67-79 (18.9 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
I actually use no-item Acrobatics+Brave Bird, just so that I won't be choiced or hindered by koff. The reason I don't choice is to predict KS on Aegi and to have the option to switch moves for coverage.
Is the reason that Aegislash is A+ (beyond its typing, ability and stats) based around Shadow Ball+King's Sheild (Shadow Ball and then return to sheild form afterwards in the same turn)? Or does it generally not link King's Sheild due to it losing utility?
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
Usually KS is linked with Shadow Sneak for priority, but usually not linked at all. Aegi is a really good counter for bird spam, and it usually it has two attacks linked.
Ah ok. Sounds like S-Sneak+KS cockblocks birdspam rather well as Talon won't be doing sh*t with Acrobatics+Brave Bird (at least I assume so...) and it blocks Flare Blitz.
On a side-note, idk if anyone's tried this but im gonna say it anyway. Rest+Sleep Talk linked. That way, you have the chance do something else on the same turn you rest. It might be kinda wasteful of a link, but it sounds kinda cool in my head :]
sarcastic edit: Iron Head+Headbutt Jirachi sounds sooo fun to face. XD (not sarcastic anymore: srs tho what is the "standard" for Jirachi? I wanna get into this and metagame knowledge would be helpful :])
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InfernapeTropius11
get on my level
Scarf Iron Head/Zen Headbutt is the standard Jirachi set, usually with U-Turn and a filler move.
Thanks :]
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
RestTalk has been done. I run a prankster specs Tornadus with that. I've seen it once on a drought ninetails in a sun team too, but the majority of the time, Sleep Talk is unreliable in choosing moves, but it still use it.
ScorrchingTheaph
nO u
Blastoise, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Kabutops can learn it, but it's not really worth the link on those pokemon when they will easily be ohko'ed.
It's an interesting set, but there's still a 33% chance of Sleeptalk choosing Rest even with Circlethrow and Roar, and Tflame kills it without a doubt.
Ranking update:
Landorus from unranked to A:
See post #436.
Tornadus T from unranked to B+:
Its pretty strong but its strongest moves are kinda inaccurate (Hurricane, Heat Wave, Focus Blast) so its kinda unreliable. Can hold Life Orb because Regenerator compensate its recoil damage. Assault Vest/Life Orb Knock Off + U-turn is viable, though Scarf Landorus T is better for that.
Hitmonlee from unranked to C+:
It has multiple priorities and its fast after Unburden. Can run Mind Reader + Dynamic Punch. Otherwise, Mienshao is better I think.
Diggersby from unranked to B:
Its kinda like Physical Porygon Z, only with priority. It has Agilty, Swords Dance and a Ground typing which make it have Normal/Ground STAB, which is pretty good. Also have Knock Off + U-turn, though its probably too slow for the job.
Landorus from unranked to A:
See post #436.
Tornadus T from unranked to B+:
Its pretty strong but its strongest moves are kinda inaccurate (Hurricane, Heat Wave, Focus Blast) so its kinda unreliable. Can hold Life Orb because Regenerator compensate its recoil damage. Assault Vest/Life Orb Knock Off + U-turn is viable, though Scarf Landorus T is better for that.
Hitmonlee from unranked to C+:
It has multiple priorities and its fast after Unburden. Can run Mind Reader + Dynamic Punch. Otherwise, Mienshao is better I think.
Diggersby from unranked to B:
Its kinda like Physical Porygon Z, only with priority. It has Agilty, Swords Dance and a Ground typing which make it have Normal/Ground STAB, which is pretty good. Also have Knock Off + U-turn, though its probably too slow for the job.