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i guess ill "defend" my nominations a bit before i go. the elitist council people never post here for a reason xD
rotom-w should be moved down to a- because the most prominent of which it checks in talonflame and tornt both have the ability to easily wear it down with status, knocking off its item as well as seamless switch momentum. it hasnt deserved its rank in a long time. also, rotom doesnt check a single electric type in OU so no clue where that comes from. it also doesnt check keldeo. a- isnt some rank that condemns it to mediocrity its still an annoying pkmn with great resistances and a cool dual stab, but "skarm is A so should rotom" is wrong because skarm can check an insane range of pkmn by tailoring its ev spread which rotom can't adequately do, in addition to skarm having hazard removal, spikes, sr, phazing potential etc.
I mean talon and torn-t can pretty much wear down every single one of their checks that way, (except for talon not rly wearing down tran with a rock move). I think it's a little unfair to only say rotom-w is worn down easily, part of the reason torn-t is so good is because it can outlast and wear down its own checks.
i dont care if infernape is your favorite pokemon. the meteoric rise of its tank set doesnt change the fact that the set itself is insanely niche and can only adequately check a small amount of pokemon, most notably of which weavile and scizor which is very useful, but nape itself is still insanely frail even if you forgo speed evs which makes it way less useful. having to choose between its fire stab and fighting stab as an attack fucking sucks. OU wasn't short on scizor checks before this set gained popularity, and i promise you weavile isnt threatening enough to literally ever use this pokemon for that purpose only, which most people seem to think is why it deserves b-.
You're very correct that it only adequately checks a small amount of pokemon but it has a nice combo of not being passive, having recovery, having speed, and still doing its job well enough. I can also agree that its still fairly frail outside of its intended job but I would say that the speedy wisp that can even snipe gyarados makes up for it. The spread i run outpaces most kyu-b as well.
i dunno what the difficulty between choosing fire stab and fighting stab is tho, i've been using this set and its done its job perfectly.
It's not complete dead weight outside of checking its stuff either, contrary to what bludz is saying. Although it might not be too healthy to some, it can still wisp lando-T, dragonite, gyarados, diggersby, breloom, heracross, metagross, altaria, before they move. With low kick its a great check to tar and heatran as well
i dont think there's been much dispute about how threatening serperior has become. it's a chore to check with its ability to overpower its checks with repeated boosts from spamming a base 130 stab attack, glare that lets it cripple its counters, and lures with different berries/ hidden powers that can invalidate a team's specific check to it
eh it still will need some help getting rid of steels or flyings depending on what hidden power it runs but i guess its ok in A :/
goodra's immune to leaf storm too yum.
reuniclus is probably one of the most overrated pokemon on the viability list rn bar infernape and idk where people are getting the "insane threat" thing from. reuniclus is unbelievably passive and has an extremely difficult time getting up a calm mind against any team that isnt bulky balance/stall, and having a cm clefable check can often function as a blanket reuniclus counter in itself (bisharp, jirachi, manaphy). to put it bluntly, in many matchups reuniclus "just dies" (http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-32950 good example old but still relevant) whether it walls certain pokemon or not, and doesnt have the luxury of other cm users like suicune also in B+ that only needs one attack to function properly
I mean, by nature, most bulky cm mons are pretty fukin passive, the only thing reuni can't do that others can is spread status (and even bulky cm waters only have a 30% chance to do so). These same cm mons, by nature, are also going to have a tough time getting up multiple cm's and doing their job against offense. This is natural...bulky cm mons are aimed to break bulkier teams, and reuni does that just fine. In terms of bulky cm mons, reuni has a little more natural power (base 125 special attack vs. 95 sp. att clef, 90 sp. att suicune, 100 sp. att manaphy, 100 sp. att slowbro. 130 sp. att mega bro and 140 sp. att mega latias are exceptions but they need mega slots). It has reliable recovery, unlike suicune, and doesn't have to worry about toxic, unlike slowbro. Again, unlike suicune, it can actually check the things it should on paper because its so tough to wear it down.
It also counters mega medi :]
i understand why the ferro nomination isnt popular with the influx of magnezone (that i nommed originally lol) and zards but ferrothorn still has the movepool and set variety to force things like magnezone to tread lightly with shed shell (fuck you its viable) and the ever present twave on zard switches/ greedy dds. its insanely difficult to kill and play around, with leech seed, knock off, hazard, and its dual stabs having actual offensive presence unlike many pkmn as bulky and difficult to kill as ferrothorn. i know win% are often not great indications but ferro won over 2/3 of its matchups in wcop to date not including mirror matches while the insane influx of zard and magnezone occured right in front of it. very very few pokemon can 1v1 it and the team support it provides with the variety in its movepool is still overlooked and essentially unmatched.
i never agreed with keldeo dropping to A+ and i decided to wait and see how the meta develops, and keldeo is still amazing. keldeo+scald is the literal only reason im unsure of whether scald should be banned and is almost always a free move to fire off on its counters. specs is unbelievably difficult to switch into, and coupled with a burn and the increased usage of spikes can often let keldeo overpower its counters after just 2-3 switch ins. scarf is very threatening to offense, and sets like rest talk LO can function as great offensive counters to pokemon like bisharp, weavile and scizor over long periods of time. sub cm can completely throw off an opposing team's momentum and make it even easier for keld to fish for free burns against its counters
reuniclus is a cm mon without a definite defensive niche tho. i mean it can switch into clefable and be a decent check to that (but can be pp stalled- not reliable countermeasure) and random shit like specs keldeo secret sword, but u don't toss reuniclus into the teambuilder ever and be like "i'm using it to check x" unlike mega bro / suicune who both check important mons like zard-x / garchomp / glis etc.
mega medicham is so obscure and is most certainly not deserving of an entire teamslot to counteract.
i also fuckin hate infernape. it's so UGH. it's just forced out by so much and just giving shit like lati@s / zard-y / clefable a relatively free switch when in reality ur only a shitty weavile/sciz check at best is super bleh. tdk's wcop bat w. it vs escavalier kinda cemented this to me-- infernape did pretty much nothing besides be cute in team preview
i also fuckin hate infernape. it's so UGH. it's just forced out by so much and just giving shit like lati@s / zard-y / clefable a relatively free switch when in reality ur only a shitty weavile/sciz check at best is super bleh. tdk's wcop bat w. it vs escavalier kinda cemented this to me-- infernape did pretty much nothing besides be cute in team preview
Um well don't a bunch of other bulky things give free switch ins to dangerous Pokemon? Its not like thats unique to Infernape. Defensive sets, sure, they give switches to that stuff but offensive sets absolutely do not. Also please tell me you're joking about it being a bad Weavile/Scizor check. Defensive sets are pretty much surefire counters to them, but offensive sets are kind of bad checks.
You and Henry both forget about unmatched versatility which clearly means nothing since you're all hung up on the defensive set which isn't the only set.
the nuances in my vernacular re: shitty check were referring to the mon itself being hella mediocre, not that it was particularly bad against either mon
"unmatched" versatility isn't really doing much for me when u are a mediocre AF poke. this dude's offensive sets haven't been seen in two generations of competitive play b.c. of power creep-- why tf are you using an infernape as a "Wallbreaker" when u got formidable mons like keldeo (which occupies a v similar niche) or w.e.
the opportunity cost of using infernape on a core opposed to using another scizor check + another bisharp check is kinda large (especially since neither of these are rare and definitely not mutually exclusive); infernape is an in-theory cute mon via compression, but is moreso an attempt to be cute as opposed to practical and is just v mediocre at best
This little key-ring sets up Spikes so easily with Prankster and really good typing.
T-wave is also a really good move letting it cripple next to any offensive mon drastically. And those ground-types which isn't affected by T-wave can for the most part don't touch Klefki if it's carrying Magnet Rise. Because of T-wave Klefki can pressure most set-up sweepers from setting up anything. Klefki is such a mon that fits any playstyle as it can support with Spikes, Screens, T-wave and Prankster Rain Dance for rain teams.
Klefki has it's flaw though. The raise of Sand offense as Klefki can't touch Exca except without Foul Play, and Exca has a chance to 2HKO with Iron Head:
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 177-209 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 148-175 (46.5 - 55%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
Overall Klefki is very passive after it have T-waved and set up spikes.
This little key-ring sets up Spikes so easily with Prankster and really good typing.
T-wave is also a really good move letting it cripple next to any offensive mon drastically. And those ground-types which isn't affected by T-wave can for the most part don't touch Klefki if it's carrying Magnet Rise. Because of T-wave Klefki can pressure most set-up sweepers from setting up anything. Klefki is such a mon that fits any playstyle as it can support with Spikes, Screens, T-wave and Prankster Rain Dance for rain teams.
Klefki has it's flaw though. The raise of Sand offense as Klefki can't touch Exca except without Foul Play, and Exca has a chance to 2HKO with Iron Head:
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 177-209 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 148-175 (46.5 - 55%) -- 63.7% chance to 2HKO
Overall Klefki is very passive after it have T-waved and set up spikes.
I totally agree with this but as you said klefki is very passive and also rather predictable. It most of time carries foul play oy play rough to deal damage (and also not to be total taunt bait). T-wave is almost always on it the other slots are variable but often you'll see magnet rise and spikes thus you can play around it pretty easily
Ok regarding keldeo I honestly haven't seen a real reason for it to be any higher than A+ ever since infinite rain stopped being a thing.
To put this into perspective:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Rain: 161-189 (50.4 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 107-126 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
You can clearly seen in rain keldeo becomes much less prediction reliant since it can actually break it's switchins while still doing its job very effectively. The pursuit support paired with keldeo is now being supported by keldeo since now latias must roost if it wants to switch in to keldeo again and now it is trapped. Without an infinite rain meta the common switchins to keldeo simply Aren't pressured enough.
Speaking of switchins ,Looking at the ou checks compendium it has so many checks and counters in the non rain dominated oras meta ranging from dragonite to mega venu. The problem with keldeo is that it's specs set while an amazing wall breaker still comes short against that many things that wall it as it relies on weak hidden power moves to get by them which in many cases don't even 2hko and is heavily prediction reliant.Specs icy wind needs Sr to secure the 2hko on latias and it also fails to 2hko av torn. Hp flying does nothing to ammongus and venu. Even if u forgo hydro pump on the specs set to run icy wind plus a hidden power like bug u still haven't accomplished much other than missing some kos and relying on scald burns in situations where hydro pump would be appreciated all just to kill celebi . Looking at the s rank I can't see keldeo really placed on the same level as mega gross char x and mega altaria. For example char x hitting the entire meta neutrally between its stabs and flare blitz nuking stuff like mega altaria and Azunarill who otherwise would wall it as they do in theory. Mega alts fairy coverage hits the meta bar steel types and fire types who for the most part are bopped by EQ + fire blast which are sufficiently powerful moves. Keldeo tbh relies on scald burns alot of the time.Scald burns are a reality and it's not something that I will downplay but then u realize most of the switchins to keldeo are only really annoyed from doing their job for their team in the long run and are still able to beat keldeo. This is not even considering that 3 of keldeo counters are regenerator mons so yea the 12 percent adds up but it's still not that consequential . Even then , facade / heal bell mega altaria exists , lum berry dragonite exists , natural cure starmie and celebi exists so it's not like scald solos all the answers for keldeo and most of them are special attackers anyways . Mind u keldeo has weak coverage moves that can hit these threats but it's not consistent as keldeo will lose out on being other things and being choice locked is something that is relatively easy to take advantage of on keldeo.
With that said keldeo is definitely something u prepare for in team building. But the problem I have with keldeo is that it's checks are so numerous that it's not hard to find a check that fits your team so I don't find it any more centralizing then something like bisharp.
Keldeo does have a scarf set but I honestly don't think it's on the same level as its other sets because it's niche of revenge killing several threats on offense doesn't fully compensate for the fact that your wall breaking is crippled and you have even weak er hidden power moves to use for your checks compared to specs. Sub cm I also think is inferior to specs in the sense that u usually want sub and and your coverage options are even more limited and u will be 100 percent sacking momentum against your common counters if u try to cm. I honestly just don't see keldeo as an S rank mon just because of scald spam. It should Stay A+.
I wouldn't say remove them, per se. Looking at Other Options mentioned in their Dex entries, you could have: Venomoth: Offensive set with QD/Sleep Powder|Psychic/Bug Buzz/Sludge Bomb, maybe? Use Tinted Lens and you have perfect coverage with just STABs. Admittedly, Bug/Poison or even Bug/Poison/Psychic sucks for getting SE hits.) Gorebyss: Offensive set with SS/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Substitute|Shadow Ball?|Psychic? Yeah, go ahead and drop this--the lack of a Grass move kinda hurts. In this context Huntail probably is better, since Sucker Punch is at least another coverage option with priority that smacks stuff like Slowbro.) Espeon: I don't think she's really affected much. She can't pass Speed at all except as part of a chain, and chains have been illegal in OU for some time, so she'll be fine. Smeargle: It had other uses before somebody figured out the GeoPass set, and odds are it'll have other uses now. Or not. It can't SmashPass, and it's outclassed at setting Sticky Web by Shuckle and other hazards by literally anything else, so...
I wouldn't say remove them, per se. Looking at Other Options mentioned in their Dex entries, you could have: Venomoth: Offensive set with QD/Sleep Powder|Psychic/Bug Buzz/Sludge Bomb, maybe? Use Tinted Lens and you have perfect coverage with just STABs. Admittedly, Bug/Poison or even Bug/Poison/Psychic sucks for getting SE hits.) Gorebyss: Offensive set with SS/Hydro Pump/Ice Beam/Substitute|Shadow Ball?|Psychic? Yeah, go ahead and drop this--the lack of a Grass move kinda hurts. In this context Huntail probably is better, since Sucker Punch is at least another coverage option with priority that smacks stuff like Slowbro.) Espeon: I don't think she's really affected much. She can't pass Speed at all except as part of a chain, and chains have been illegal in OU for some time, so she'll be fine. Smeargle: It had other uses before somebody figured out the GeoPass set, and odds are it'll have other uses now. Or not. It can't SmashPass, and it's outclassed at setting Sticky Web by Shuckle and other hazards by literally anything else, so...
Literally the only reason Venomoth and Gorebyss were ranked was for smash/quiver pass. Gorebyss is outclassed as an offensive Shell Smash user by Cloyster, and if offensive Venomoth was viable then Vivillon would be ranked for basically being better
Yeah all components of Geopass and Smashpass should be removed imo. Espeon is utterly outclassed by Alakazam, Venomoth just straight up sucks, and Gorebyss/Huntail are worthless now that they can't pass Smash boosts. Idk if Smeargle should be removed due to a niche in sticky web, but tbh I'd rather use Shuckle. RIP
Literally the only reason Venomoth and Gorebyss were ranked was for smash/quiver pass. Gorebyss is outclassed as an offensive Shell Smash user by Cloyster, and if offensive Venomoth was viable then Vivillon would be ranked for basically being better
Yeah all components of Geopass and Smashpass should be removed imo. Espeon is utterly outclassed by Alakazam, Venomoth just straight up sucks, and Gorebyss/Huntail are worthless now that they can't pass Smash boosts. Idk if Smeargle should be removed due to a niche in sticky web, but tbh I'd rather use Shuckle. RIP
I say that Smeargle should go. If you're gonna be a jack of all trades, you at least need to be decent at something. For Smeargle, now that the GeoPass something is gone, it ends up outclassed at literally everything--including Sticky Web, for whom Shuckle or even Galvantula would be better. Well, okay, it can Spore + Sticky Web. But is that, practically speaking, much of anything?
There's no point keeping something ranked when the only reason it was ranked in the first place is now banned. If you can come up with something later and prove it's good to keep it ranked, then yeah sure, but right now what you're essentially doing is giving us nothing but theorymon to rank something.
I'm so glad that CancerPass is now rendered useless :)
Venomoth sucks, although the argument that Vivillon is better is debatable (IMO they are both on par with one another due to Tinted Lens+only 2x SR weakness v.s. accutate Hurricane+Sleep Powder) and a far better comparison would have been Volcarona because it outclasses them both as a Quiver Dance user in literally every way possible. Seriously, don't use Venomoth.
Gorebyss (and by extension Huntail) now have no competitive use in any tier. Seriously there are better setup sweepers even in PU. Gorebyss should now be unranked.
Espeon is ass in every single way. It is outclassed offensively by (M-)Alakazam and M-Diancie, it is outclassed as a defensive Magic Bounce user by M-Sableye... hell it is even worse than Xatu due to the latter at least having a niche on VoltTurn teams (because Baton Pass doesn't quite work on VoltTurn due to part of how said playstyle works being through its ability to thrive on chip damage from said moves). Basically, this thing lost all of its uses as soon as this further nerf to Baton Pass was implemented.
Don't use Smeargle as a rule of thumb. I'm not going to say anything else because it is trash at literally everything it does.
Scolipede's QuickPass set is worse than before due to it no longer being able to BP SD or Iron Defense, although IMO it shouldn't be moved down because it is still versatile in what it can do (it can still QuickPass its speed boosts (with SD/Iron Defense obviously subbed out for Endeavor or another offensive move), it can go offensive and it can act as an effective suicide spiker)
That's all I'm gonna comment on. I hope I've not missed anything.
I'm not usually one for viability rankings but I'm bored and I believe that there needs to be a change.
Magneton from C+ -> B-
Now Magneton is much like Magnezone with slightly worse bulk and 10 lower SpA however it has 10 higher speed. This speed, with a choice scarf, lets it outspeed things like Weavile, Tornadus-T, Talonflame which right now I believe are pretty common mons and are very threatening. While Magnezone is outsped and bopped by all of these (assuming max speed) really not much to add here because they're pretty damn similar but I feel that outspeeding some common offensive threats like that, especially since Weavile's rise from BL -> OU is actually quite important. For reference Magnezone is A-, Magneton is C+. So feel free to all agree with me and if you don't then drop user Hairy Toenail a PM
e: my net is trash right now so if u reply then sry if I can't give a response back but i'll try
Basically, as far as I can tell, Baton Pass was the only reason these two were ranked, but now that you can't pass Speed + Another stat anymore, the viability of these 'mons is essentially zero. Anything Espeon can theoretically do is done better by something else (Mega Sableye,) and, hell, Mega Absol and Mega Diancie both make better offensive Magic Bounce users than Espeon so it doesn't even have that going for it. As for Smeargle, the best use of it I can think of is for entry hazards, but if you want a SR+Spikes suicide lead, Skarmory and Forretress are better options and Shuckle does anything called Sticky Web way better. There is no longer any reason to use either of these.
The only one I'd consider keeping ranked is Espeon because its role consolidation makes it fit onto some teams, and even then I don't care enough to play devil's advocate. It'd be E at best.
I do think Scolipede could drop slightly because it just lost one of its sets, but I don't know how much of an impact losing Defense + Speed Passing makes. WebBowser I know you've used Scoilpede quite extensively, what do you think?
I think more than any, Scolipede is worth addressing with the BP change, since unlike several others (Smeargle, Espeon), he has a degree of self sufficiency, even if this did hurt him. Speed Boost has proven on Sharpedo that it makes all the difference between NU/RU and OU viable, and Scolipede had some worthwhile traits (if not necessarily OU worthwhile) over his competition without it.
Scolipede did basically lose an entire set (Quickpass), but are his other sets (Suicide Spiker, LO Attacker) still worth the current ranking? I think Baton Pass could still make a useful filler on either set, Scolipede naturally building up Speed Boosts to clean and/or generate even more momentum on a forced switch. And even before Speed Boosts, Scolipede's 112 Speed is nice, being a point above Thundurus and being resistant to Serperior (who is immediately above him), while Speed Boost mitigates issues with Scarfers that try to revenge. Scolipede can still pass Subs + Speed with Baton Pass, right (the clause thread mostly mentioned Speed + other Stat boosts)?
Before we unrank Smeargle and Espeon so quickly (idc about the other baton pass pokemon going unranked) let's take a moment to think. Smeargle, while being mostly outclassed by Shuckle, still has a niche. It is a sticky web setter with stealth rock like Shuckle, but at the same time it can prevent hazards from going down on your side thanks to Spore/Dark Void, Taunt, or Magic Coat. This is not a big niche, but it is certainly important for Sticky Web teams who use Stealth Rock weak pokemon as their abusers and don't want to deal with their opponent getting rocks down immediately. Probably D rank material imo. Espeon is in a similar boat in that it is mostly outclassed but not completely. Magic Bounce + Dual Screens lets it setup screens while keeping hazards off your side and isn't able to be taunted which can be especially important if you're trying to use those screens to set up with something like Charizard X. Taunt, screens, explosion Azelf mostly outclasses Espeon, but Espeon will almost always get it's job done (job being setting up screens and preventing rocks) unlike Azelf who has to play a 50/50 guessing game with Tyranitar (is it putting down rocks or going for the kill???) and Landorus-T (putting down rocks or scarfer going for the kill???). Sure, these are small niches over Azelf, but Azelf only has small niches over Espeon and Magic Bounce might make a difference more often than 5 extra sleed. Espeon also has Yawn so it isn't set up bait, which is similar to Azelf's Explosion. D or E rank for Espeon, idc which just not unranked.
Smeargle has to play 50-50s with other leads to stop opposing hazards, gets screwed over by people who lead with Subbers, and is forced to lead while other hazard setters (suicide or otherwise) are fast and/or bulky enough to come in later against opposing offense and try to set up even if Sash/Sturdy is broken.
The only one I'd consider keeping ranked is Espeon because its role consolidation makes it fit onto some teams, and even then I don't care enough to play devil's advocate. It'd be E at best.
I do think Scolipede could drop slightly because it just lost one of its sets, but I don't know how much of an impact losing Defense + Speed Passing makes. WebBowser I know you've used Scoilpede quite extensively, what do you think?
Whule I'm not WebBowser, I can say that I usually won't end up boosting my attack or defense with SD or Iron Defense, respectively, when I am using Scolipede to QuickPass. Sure, they are nice, but they are like the strawberries on top of the cake more than anything. It may still be slightly worse as a set, but if it is it is only barely.
Before we unrank Smeargle and Espeon so quickly (idc about the other baton pass pokemon going unranked) let's take a moment to think. Smeargle, while being mostly outclassed by Shuckle, still has a niche. It is a sticky web setter with stealth rock like Shuckle, but at the same time it can prevent hazards from going down on your side thanks to Spore/Dark Void, Taunt, or Magic Coat. This is not a big niche, but it is certainly important for Sticky Web teams who use Stealth Rock weak pokemon as their abusers and don't want to deal with their opponent getting rocks down immediately. Probably D rank material imo. Espeon is in a similar boat in that it is mostly outclassed but not completely. Magic Bounce + Dual Screens lets it setup screens while keeping hazards off your side and isn't able to be taunted which can be especially important if you're trying to use those screens to set up with something like Charizard X. Taunt, screens, explosion Azelf mostly outclasses Espeon, but Espeon will almost always get it's job done (job being setting up screens and preventing rocks) unlike Azelf who has to play a 50/50 guessing game with Tyranitar (is it putting down rocks or going for the kill???) and Landorus-T (putting down rocks or scarfer going for the kill???). Sure, these are small niches over Azelf, but Azelf only has small niches over Espeon and Magic Bounce might make a difference more often than 5 extra sleed. Espeon also has Yawn so it isn't set up bait, which is similar to Azelf's Explosion. D or E rank for Espeon, idc which just not unranked.
Smeargle's so-called "niche" in preventing opposing hazard-laying with Spore/DV is made mostly redundant considering that most hazard leads actually outpace Smeargle, meaning that they lay their hazards before it uses Spore or DV anyway.
As for Espeon, why would you ever use this thing over M-Diancie for offensive screens? Seriously, I'd much rather use Screens M-Diancie for MB+Screens over screens Espeon because Explosion>Yawn in Defog prevention while it, like Espeon, doesn't have a 50:50 with T-Tar over Azelf. It also has actual bulk, so that's a thing that makes the extra speed mostly redundant when it comes down to laying the very first screen. Before I get a shitstorm, let me just say I'm not advocating the use of screens M-Diancie. The point I am trying to make is that, when a Pokemon is outclassed by what is already a bad set, that Pokémon is quite obviously inherently bad. As a defensive Magic Bouncer, it is completely obvious that M-Sableye does it better in every way barring the mega slot thing, and if I wanted to not use a mega slot for it I'd rather use Xatu any day because, if I have a defensive Magic Bounce user that isn't Mega Sableye, then it is because it is a VoltTurn team - which Baton Pass does not work on due to CM/whatever boosts being lost when you VoltTurn and dry-passing being literal trash for VoltTurning's job due to it lacking chip damage (i.e. the entire premise of VoltTurn teams). tl;dr: don't use Espeon.
edit: sorry AM I started typing this before you posted :/
Karxrida The loss of BP is definitely a significant loss for Scoli's viability. Iron Defense is now pretty much worthless on him because the Speedy + Bulky shtick is done better by MMeta. SD sets have also lost a rather significant option as they appreciated the ability to swap out without losing boosts. Suicide lead set still works fine, as does revenge killer sets. I think it has some OU viability, due mostly to his revenge killer sets, but he's not super good anymore, prolly C rank.
On Espeon: As long as Xatu (who is pretty much an inferior espeon) is E rank, there is no reason for Espeon to fall below D rank.
On Smeargle: Experimenting on possible Smeargle sets, I'll report back if I find a good non-BP one (hazards are prolly not it)
Small update for BP stuff with small reasoning that I'm going to change in the OP after I type this up.
Smeargle- Is going to D. So before you sit behind your computers in your skype chat crying in anger with your friends about this like we all do in this day and age, let's not jump on the bandwagon of shitting up mons you and your friends have never used in a relevant capacity or even any sort of capacity to make a comment on. TDK agrees that Smeargle has more niches than Shuckle overall the problem this niche as Sticky Webber kind of blows is cause it's frail as shit. I myself have been using a Smeargle hazard lead with Healing Wish, Magic Coat, Spikes, Stealth Rock on a Hyper Offensive team that is used as an anti-lead for stuff like Taunt leads such as Azelf for example. It has enough notable uses to maintain itself in D because it can use this and sits at high enough speed tier to provide these teams, Smeargle outside of BP is used on Offense no other point in using it outside of that setting, a way to hinder slower balance while providing team dependent traits due to its ability to have almost any move it wants.
Gorebyss- Is going unranked. Out of all the waters we have it's not even on par to the majority of the E rank mons at this point in terms of utility and warranting a team slot. There's not a whole lot to say when you can't even hit an E rank criteria for a rank that's pretty loose already.
Espeon - Is going unranked. The team doesn't care if it's unranked or E, granted more towards unranked, but even the screens set and the fact it stops rocks by having Magic Bounce is a pretty garbage trait. It's main usefulness was its deadliness after having multiple boosts, now that isn't the case. If you have an undying love for Espeon, which of course someone would people wanted Sylveon in A- one time anything is possible, pm me some extremely solid reasons as to why it should be E when considering the pros and cons of the other E rank stuff. If you comment here on it I'm just gonna delete it.
Edit: Going to D. Take a wild guess who proposed it there lol.
Scolipede - Stays where it's at. Holy shit you guys underestimate speed boost passing by itself and its cleaning capabilities. It didn't move up in the first place for the whole Iron Defense thing anyways.
Venomoth - Is going unranked. Lol if I have to explain this my advice would be to start playing OU.
That's all. Discussion point is still the stuff Henry has nommed prior to everyone crying about BP and making 10 comments on it as if we would've missed the elegant bold that legitimizes your point even further n_n. Happy discussing.
