Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

[Count Bleck]

Verlisify is a known nuisance in the Pokemon community, both in VGC and in singles formats. Many cases of harrassment, anti smogon, bunch of click bait, sends fans to attack people, and has been reported on record saying he does all of it for publicity. Classic douchebag.


ANYWAYS I slowed down the speed on the video to identify the mysterious pink pokemon, looks like Snubbull's flappy things to me.

 

[Norne]

Yep it does look like Snubull. It really can't be Chansey or Audino so it must be Snubull.

 

[Oddish.]

Yeah Verlisify is pretty notorious for causing shit. But about the topic at hand...

0:08: First glimpse of that village on the bottom of the volcano island, the one that has a lighthouse and is connected to a cemetery-looking place.

That cemetery is possibly where Mimikyu is found.

0:11: Okay, we're on top of the mountain and what the heck is that portal thing? Well, it actually looks like a door upon closer expection but still has some portal vibes to it. It also has a Sun logo on it so I'm guessing this is Sun version.

Random portals throughout the island wouldn't surprise me. The ultra beasts were shown coming out of one, and Solgaleo and Lunala were shown going into one near the end of the trailer. Could very well just be a door though.

1:02: A possible hint the Pokemon which pestered Cubone were Phantumps? It would certainly make their Ghost-type make sense (though a bit counterproductive since it'll also be weak to Ghost-type moves).

Probably just a coincidence tbh.

1:10: So there looks to be an abandoned building in Alola, quite a spacious and decorative one too.

Obligatory creepy area? Though I guess the cemetery could count. Edit: Actually, looking at it again, it'll most likely have some plot importance seeing as Team Skull is there. Hm... complete speculation here, but maybe it's where pokemon like Type: Null were created?

1:58: Now this is odd. This is the same Fighting Z-Move that Lucario used, but its animation is different. Instead of a fury or hands and fists its just one blast. OR what we saw Lucario do was the beginning and this is what the ending animation is. So "Full-Force Unparalleled Fists of Fury" first releases a batch of projected punches and kicks before gathering the energy together to release it as a single big blast.

It could be a hint at either Lucario or Bewear getting a personal z-move, though I guess anything is possible.

2:01: Now this is where things get interesting. Verlisify's video pointed out that when you do a Z-Move the trainer makes a pose with energy burning behind them and it then cuts to the Pokemon which has the Z-Move symbol + the Z-Crystal logo appear over it. But here the trainer makes a victorious pose, has a rainbow glow comes from the Z-Ring, rainbow sparks burst around the trainer, and the Z-Move symbol appears in front of the trainer. This is where the animation ends though maybe they're not showing one last bit of it: what symbol appears after the Z-Move logo? Could it possibly be the Mega Pokemon symbol? Mega Evolution is associated with rainbows and it would make sense for the logo to appear over the trainer as they're the ones using it while the Pokemon would then undergo the Mega Evolution transformation. Now this doesn't mean there is any new Mega Pokemon, it just a theory this is the Z-Rings way of activating the Mega Evolution mechanic.

Possibly. After all, wasn't it shown that the Z-ring had another spot on it? Some people speculated that the mega stone could go there. It would make sense to just have both stones be on one bracelet.

 

[Rapti]

The funniest part of that is that the Vatican or one of the other high Catholic organizations actually released a statement not too long ago saying Pokemon is healthy due to how it treats us to love and respect God's creatures - especially with the way the TV show treats Pokemon.

But, I digress, I can actually see how the anime will move to Alola - Ash following Professor Oak as he goes to visit his cousin and see his research on the regional forms.

I actually looked into this, the vatican gave his blessing to Pokemon in the year 2000

always remember kids, different denominations of chistians have been disagreeing at everything since the begining (did you know the catholic church is Ok with evolution and the teaching of it?)

but anyhow pokemon
Type: (dramatic pause) Null sure is neat looking but it needs a better ability, and yes it's name is silly but it's thematically appropiate silliness; also between team Skull and the whole "entities that aren't pokemon" this game it pretty much stealing the plot from the Mystery Dungeoun series

watch out for time shenanigans next

 

[QuickBH]

Type: (dramatic pause) Null sure is neat looking but it needs a better ability, and yes it's name is silly but it's thematically appropiate silliness; also between team Skull and the whole "entities that aren't pokemon" this game it pretty much stealing the plot from the Mystery Dungeoun series

watch out for time shenanigans next

Be careful, Samson was just revealed to be in this game. The same one in the Celebi movie.

Next time, Future Celebi comes from the future to warn us about Team Aether confirmed.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Be careful, Samson was just revealed to be in this game. The same one in the Celebi movie.

Next time, Future Celebi comes from the future to warn us about Team Aether confirmed.

In the movie, Sam is Samuel Oak, our good old Professor Oak

 

[Tachyonic]

So one thing I just want to quickly mention from the Japanese trailer on Sept 6 is that it shows Hala using a Crabrawler, and I'm hoping that the Kahunas aren't type specialists like gym leaders, but rather their focus is on something else. It'd be neat if Hala had a Krabby to go along with that Crabrawler rather than some Fighting-Types.

 

[Oddish.]

So one thing I just want to quickly mention from the Japanese trailer on Sept 6 is that it shows Hala using a Crabrawler, and I'm hoping that the Kahunas aren't type specialists like gym leaders, but rather their focus is on something else. It'd be neat if Hala had a Krabby to go along with that Crabrawler rather than some Fighting-Types.

The Kahunas are possibly gonna be the "Elite Four" of this region, so them being type specialists is pretty likely.

 

[Zukrad]

I love how we casually changed topics from Sun and Moon expeculation, to Pokémon being the antichrist, to tips on how to avoid "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" to Sun and Moon expeculation again just like that lol

I love you guys :3

 

[Pikachu315111]

So one thing I just want to quickly mention from the Japanese trailer on Sept 6 is that it shows Hala using a Crabrawler, and I'm hoping that the Kahunas aren't type specialists like gym leaders, but rather their focus is on something else. It'd be neat if Hala had a Krabby to go along with that Crabrawler rather than some Fighting-Types.

Hmm, maybe the Kahuna's focus on another theme? Like maybe they aren't specialized as we typically know it but they do something like use the best team you can build with the local Pokemon you can find on their island. Or maybe they do something conventional like focus on a certain stat (Hala could be offense/Attack/Physical; other traits include defensive (which would be HP, Defense, and Special Defense as I kind of find it pointless to focus on one defense stat unless it's paired with something else), Special Attack, Special, and Speed. Or they could go with play styles like Speedy Sweeper, Wall, Might Glacier, Wearing Down, etc).

The Kahunas are possibly gonna be the "Elite Four" of this region, so them being type specialists is pretty likely.

Eh... sorta? But not really, as you fight a Kahuna after being an island's set of trials. And it wouldn't make sense for the Trial Captains on the next island to be weaker than the Kahuna of the island you just got off of. Of course for the purpose of the test they initially hold back and maybe once you beat all the challenges you can face them at their full strength in a boss rush to a possible Champion-like figure; but that's assuming the Island Challenge works in any way slightly resembling a typical Pokemon League.

 

[Oddish.]

Eh... sorta? But not really, as you fight a Kahuna after being an island's set of trials. And it wouldn't make sense for the Trial Captains on the next island to be weaker than the Kahuna of the island you just got off of. Of course for the purpose of the test they initially hold back and maybe once you beat all the challenges you can face them at their full strength in a boss rush to a possible Champion-like figure; but that's assuming the Island Challenge works in any way slightly resembling a typical Pokemon League.

That's why I put quotation marks around elite four. I really meant it in the loosest of terms, like "the boss that comes after the smaller bosses," since the trial captions are kinda the gym leaders of this gen. Though as you said, that's assuming the island challenge is anything like the pokemon league. Admittedly it still doesn't make much sense. It's possible that there is no real elite four equivalent to this gen, unless GF is hiding them.

 

[Norne]

Honestly the e4, or the 4 HEAVENLY KNIGHTS, Are a gauntlet challenge culminating on the level spike champion that pics the higher bst mons with differing thematics.

Most champions use fossil + pseudo + evolution gimmick + obtain gimmick of the region with 1-2 wildcards in between.

The odd ones are Blue and Wallace in this pattern with Alder missing the fossils and pseudo as the 2 bosses of BW already do that.

 

[Project_Mars]

Verlisify is a known nuisance in the Pokemon community, both in VGC and in singles formats. Many cases of harrassment, anti smogon, bunch of click bait, sends fans to attack people, and has been reported on record saying he does all of it for publicity. Classic douchebag.

I just know him as the guy who's entire argument against Hyper Training was "omg, now CASUALS can actually have good pokemon!" and agree that he probably isn't worth the time.

It would be interesting if there are Gyms and an Elite 4 as the Post-Game.

 

[Norne]

I just know him as the guy who's entire argument against Hyper Training was "omg, now CASUALS can actually have good pokemon!" and agree that he probably isn't worth the time.

It would be interesting if there are Gyms and an Elite 4 as the Post-Game.

If anything hyper training will be the wake up call for mixed wallbreakers, ingame I feel like I'm the only one using freeze dry mamoswine, volt tackle Pikachu, gk mega metagross and infernape or lo Draco Meteor Fireblast Garchomp as the other players can't be bothered to breed for the 6iv and a negative defense/spdef nature.

Only seen this on Diancie and once in an energy ball Victini, basically only event or legends people just inject or get on giveaways, but never breed and nicknamed to hint they went for it.

I welcome our mixed wallbreaker overlords.

Seriously only SD or banded/specs stuff, never mixed, this is specially sad for Altaria and infernape.

 

[Sirya]

I'm not sure "Type:Null" is its name, I think it's a provisional name and later in the story we discover the true species. I say this because spanish and english use the same names for Pokémon, they are never traduced, and this time "Type:Null" is know as "Código Cero" in spanish.

 

[QuickBH]

If anything hyper training will be the wake up call for mixed wallbreakers, ingame I feel like I'm the only one using freeze dry mamoswine, volt tackle Pikachu, gk mega metagross and infernape or lo Draco Meteor Fireblast Garchomp as the other players can't be bothered to breed for the 6iv and a negative defense/spdef nature.

Only seen this on Diancie and once in an energy ball Victini, basically only event or legends people just inject or get on giveaways, but never breed and nicknamed to hint they went for it.

I welcome our mixed wallbreaker overlords.

Seriously only SD or banded/specs stuff, never mixed, this is specially sad for Altaria and infernape.

Bruh I used MixNape every single run. There is no better way to use stuff like Bashful nature in-game anyways. :) Though I always resetted for naive.

 

[thdhted]

If anything hyper training will be the wake up call for mixed wallbreakers, ingame I feel like I'm the only one using freeze dry mamoswine, volt tackle Pikachu, gk mega metagross and infernape or lo Draco Meteor Fireblast Garchomp as the other players can't be bothered to breed for the 6iv and a negative defense/spdef nature.

Only seen this on Diancie and once in an energy ball Victini, basically only event or legends people just inject or get on giveaways, but never breed and nicknamed to hint they went for it.

I welcome our mixed wallbreaker overlords.

Seriously only SD or banded/specs stuff, never mixed, this is specially sad for Altaria and infernape.

I use mixed stuff occasionally. But only because Pokemon Y is literally the game I use for storing stuff and breeding while I do more interesting things on ORAS.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Honestly the e4, or the 4 HEAVENLY KNIGHTS, Are a gauntlet challenge culminating on the level spike champion that pics the higher bst mons with differing thematics.

Most champions use fossil + pseudo + evolution gimmick + obtain gimmick of the region with 1-2 wildcards in between.

The odd ones are Blue and Wallace in this pattern with Alder missing the fossils and pseudo as the 2 bosses of BW already do that.

*Puts on nitpick glasses* Erm, actually, the Elite Four's origina Japanese name is "The Four Heavenly Kings", named after and based on the concept of four Buddhist Gods whom watch the world according to one cardinal directions (north, south, east, & west). *Takes off glasses*

As for the Champion, there's really no definite thing which makes up the Champion aside they're a strong trainers. Using the criteria you listed above:

Blue: fossil, pseudo, evolution gimmick (Alakazam, Exeggutor, Arcanine), obtain gimmick (Starter)
Lance: fossil, pseudo (multiple of Dragonite), evolution gimmick, obtain gimmick (Charizard)
Red: fossil, pseudo, evolution gimmick (Espeon in Gen II), obtain gimmick (all 3 Kanto Starters, Snorlax, Lapras in Gen IV)
Steven: fossil (both gen's), pseudo (though only one of his gen's), evolution gimmick, obtain gimmick (not counting pseudo)
Wallace: fossil, pseudo, evolution gimmick (Milotic, Ludicolo), obtain gimmick (sorta, Wailord and Whiscash needed for puzzle to solve Regi Puzzle)
Cynthia: fossil, pseudo, evolution gimmick (Milotic, Togekiss, Roserade, Gastrodon to an extent), obtain gimmick (Spiritomb)
Alder: fossil, pseudo, evolution gimmick (Accelgor & Escavalier), obtain gimmick (Volcarona)
Iris: fossil, pseudo (though not main Pokemon), evolution gimmick, obtain gimmick
Diantha: fossil (both gen's), pseudo, evolution gimmick (not counting fossil/pseudo/Mega), obtain gimmick (Gourgeist to an extent)

And that's not counting other things like how the Elite Four sometimes picks up the slack with some owning the pseudo if the Champion doesn't (Lance in Gen I, Drake uses a Salamence in Gen III).

I'm not sure "Type:Null" is its name, I think it's a provisional name and later in the story we discover the true species. I say this because spanish and english use the same names for Pokémon, they are never traduced, and this time "Type:Null" is know as "Código Cero" in spanish.

Wonder if this may also be true for the Ultra Beasts, having a code name now but a name later on.

 

[Norne]

Four heavenly kings is accurate, I grew up with Knights due to localization of other JRPGs.

Several games use Knights instead of kings to avoid subtracting importance of the Demon King/Final Boss.

The last time I found with this localization was in MGQ.

Let's be honest here, If you fight four kings and then another one on for the final boss the impact is lost as there isn't the religious background to see how badass that is, but if they where the Knights and the trope is played straight in unwinnable encounters then on a gauntlet boss rush before the final boss(king) the tension is epic.

I honestly prefer that mistranslation on my JRPG for the English context, kinda like people prefer the "dark" type instead of "evil" type flavour wise, or how I prefer "pulverizing pancake" over "playtime is over" simply put, one is just better for the lolz or epicness in the language.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Four heavenly kings is accurate, I grew up with Knights due to localization of other JRPGs.

Several games use Knights instead of kings to avoid subtracting importance of the Demon King/Final Boss.

The last time I found with this localization was in MGQ.

Let's be honest here, If you fight four kings and then another one on for the final boss the impact is lost as there isn't the religious background to see how badass that is, but if they where the Knights and the trope is played straight in unwinnable encounters then on a gauntlet boss rush before the final boss(king) the tension is epic.

I honestly prefer that mistranslation on my JRPG for the English context, kinda like people prefer the "dark" type instead of "evil" type flavour wise, or how I prefer "pulverizing pancake" over "playtime is over" simply put, one is just better for the lolz or epicness in the language.

Actually there's such a thing called a High King/Great King/King of Kings. Basically if an empire is big enough or incorporated multiple cultures their will be regional kings who serve under the High King. O course there's similar systems that had leaders have different titles like "lords" for rulers not in complete charge or "emperor" for a High King.

 

[MylittlePlusle]

I know this is a stupid question but are the Zygarde formes 6th of 7th gen Pokemon?

Zygrade-50 is a 6th gen, the formes are in the anime but they are only usable in 7th gen...

 

[Taistelu]

I love how we casually changed topics from Sun and Moon expeculation, to Pokémon being the antichrist, to tips on how to avoid "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" to Sun and Moon expeculation again just like that lol

I love you guys :3

Sadly I'm pretty sure its how this thread gets locked around a week after every update.

It would be interesting if there are Gyms and an Elite 4 as the Post-Game.

For this to be a thing, it'd most likely involve having a second region, which is never realistically going to happen.

I know this is a stupid question but are the Zygarde formes 6th of 7th gen Pokemon?

Zygrade-50 is a 6th gen, the formes are in the anime but they are only usable in 7th gen...

Anime isn't canon so Zygarde-50% would be Gen 6 and everything else would be Gen 7, I assume.

EDIT: Also Hau is shown witnessing UB-01 with the player, so this could be a rival that actually does something :o.

 

[Lady Vader]

I know this is a stupid question but are the Zygarde formes 6th of 7th gen Pokemon?

Zygrade-50 is a 6th gen, the formes are in the anime but they are only usable in 7th gen...

They're kinda both in a way or at least that's how I see it (I do the same with Mega Evolutions).

 

[Codraroll]

I know this is a stupid question but are the Zygarde formes 6th of 7th gen Pokemon?

Zygrade-50 is a 6th gen, the formes are in the anime but they are only usable in 7th gen...

I would consider them Gen VII, but they were probably designed to be Gen VI, and "dummied out" by the cancellation of a Pokémon Z game. In a similar vein, half the Gen II Pokémon were apparently designed for Gen I.

It's not completely water-tight, but I consider their debut generation to be the Gen where the Pokémon is first legitimately available, when released together with other newly available 'mons (that is, in the first game of that generation). Otherwise it counts as a preview, like Bonsly in Pokémon XD.

Then again, you can make a very solid case for Togepi being a Gen I Pokémon, so again, not completely water-tight.

 

[D_what]

If it has any impact on it, not only did we find out about it fairly early on, far before gen 7 was known to be a thing, all Zygarde formes were legitimately obtainable in the TCG, and not even as part of a final set or as some hard to obtain promo. There's even a tin release.

Mind you, the same is true for Magearna. Yeah, something's definitely screwy with the release schedule.


Only tangentally related to SM, but since the new engine seems to be ditching the square tile pattern (thank God, I was praying they'd do that for ORAS...) do you think newer remakes will get the same treatment, with corners getting shaved, cities stretched and routes made curvy? They kept ORAS more or less the same tile-for-tile, I'd love to see what they do with a redone Sinnoh using SM's engine.

Mostly because I'd rather Mt.Coronet didn't look like something you could build in Minecraft.