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Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII
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So we have UB-01, who shares similarities to Lillie, and now UB-02, who shares similarities to Lusamine and possibly Gladion. The plot thickens.
Also, does anyone know of a resource that lists the current Pokemon (Gens I-VI) that have appeared in the released info/trailers for SuMo? I'm curious to see which Pokemon may be part of the Alola regional dex, minus Alolian forms.
Also, does anyone know of a resource that lists the current Pokemon (Gens I-VI) that have appeared in the released info/trailers for SuMo? I'm curious to see which Pokemon may be part of the Alola regional dex, minus Alolian forms.
I don't think UB-02 Expansion has anything to do with Gladion; there will probably be a UB-03 connected to him, instead. Expansion is probably "just" a shapeshifting or armor of Beauty.
That said, I'm thinking the Ultra Beasts are projections, for lack of a better term (besides Stands, but I'm pretty sure not everyone here is a JoJo fan), of Lillie and Lusamine. Perhaps even better, secondary bodies. No idea whether Lillie still controls hers (leaving UB-01 "wild"), but Lusamine is suspect enough with her Aether Foundation.
That said, I'm thinking the Ultra Beasts are projections, for lack of a better term (besides Stands, but I'm pretty sure not everyone here is a JoJo fan), of Lillie and Lusamine. Perhaps even better, secondary bodies. No idea whether Lillie still controls hers (leaving UB-01 "wild"), but Lusamine is suspect enough with her Aether Foundation.
if anyone's still questioning if UB's are Pokes, it was stated that they aren't. weird tho how 01 looks like Lillie and the new ones look like Lusamine and Gladion (Gladion one is arguable since it only shares his color scheme). I wonder why they're both tagged as UB 02
and maybe the UB's don't have default physical forms, so they take shape of the first or most important things/people they see when they enter our world. or maybe Aether foundation really did create them
the pic of Ash with his weird smile, idk about you guys but I'm fairly certain he's smiling that way cuz it's his first Z move dance and he feels awkward as if he barely did it right
i love both Lugarugan forms! designs are simple but portray a lot. and i'm pretty sure that they each have their own movepools and stats, like how Eeveelutions work.
and maybe the UB's don't have default physical forms, so they take shape of the first or most important things/people they see when they enter our world. or maybe Aether foundation really did create them
the pic of Ash with his weird smile, idk about you guys but I'm fairly certain he's smiling that way cuz it's his first Z move dance and he feels awkward as if he barely did it right
i love both Lugarugan forms! designs are simple but portray a lot. and i'm pretty sure that they each have their own movepools and stats, like how Eeveelutions work.
Can you link to where/when it was directly stated that Ultra Beasts are not Pokemon? At the moment all I can see is that they are "Creatures". That's never stopped something from being a Pokemon before though. We already have beasts/creatures as legendary Pokemon in their own right.
Huh, so my speculation was wrong again. Xp
Kinda reminds me of an idea i had, a normal-type wolf cub with a diverging evolution into either a psychic-type white wolf or a dark-type black wolf. Except they were two different Pokemon and used a Dawn or Dusk Stone to evolve. Still, there's my ideas for typing, although I'm positive it'll be a time based evolution. (Would be cool if they were version exclusives, something that hasn't been done before.)
Is it confirmed that the two different UB-02s are version exclusives, or do you think it could be the same creature, with two different forms? Kinda interesting that they are based off of sea life, mostly, but given the amount of alien looking animals in the ocean (and that C'thulhul is said to sleep somewhere in one) I ain't too surprised.
Also, the fact that they haven't labeled UB-01 is interesting, imo. Makes me wonder if it'll have something to do with Lillie.
The anime appears like it'll take a sharp downturn in terms of quality. The art doesn't look good and the story... Why couldn't they have him go there to do research for Oak, since Pokedex, and then have him get caught up in the Trials and stuff? And why go to school Now? Didn't you already try that Ashy-boy? They asked BS questions with trick answers like "A Jigglypuff seen from above." I am probably far too amused at the lack of Serena on the promo art. I'm sure the Amourshippers are in a panic over this.
Gonna take a break from this thread, and Sun/Moon news in general after this week. Help keep things fresh.
Kinda reminds me of an idea i had, a normal-type wolf cub with a diverging evolution into either a psychic-type white wolf or a dark-type black wolf. Except they were two different Pokemon and used a Dawn or Dusk Stone to evolve. Still, there's my ideas for typing, although I'm positive it'll be a time based evolution. (Would be cool if they were version exclusives, something that hasn't been done before.)
Is it confirmed that the two different UB-02s are version exclusives, or do you think it could be the same creature, with two different forms? Kinda interesting that they are based off of sea life, mostly, but given the amount of alien looking animals in the ocean (and that C'thulhul is said to sleep somewhere in one) I ain't too surprised.
Also, the fact that they haven't labeled UB-01 is interesting, imo. Makes me wonder if it'll have something to do with Lillie.
The anime appears like it'll take a sharp downturn in terms of quality. The art doesn't look good and the story... Why couldn't they have him go there to do research for Oak, since Pokedex, and then have him get caught up in the Trials and stuff? And why go to school Now? Didn't you already try that Ashy-boy? They asked BS questions with trick answers like "A Jigglypuff seen from above." I am probably far too amused at the lack of Serena on the promo art. I'm sure the Amourshippers are in a panic over this.
Gonna take a break from this thread, and Sun/Moon news in general after this week. Help keep things fresh.
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I believe the term you're looking for is "familiars".
Not sure how I feel about these new moms and Ultra Beasts. They just look so out there.
I know I'm not following why the animation can't change protagonists every now and again...Ash isn't the same as Red, for starters. Or do they need Pikachu continuity?
Getting back to the alchemy theme lying behind the Aether Foundation, we might want to take a look at what alchemy's goals were. Changing lead to gold was just preparation for making the Philosopher's Stone, but I have to wonder about the other goals that alchemists looked to. Checking Wikipedia's alchemy entry, the big thing about alchemy was perfection of body and soul, with possible connections to Gnosticism. I wonder if transcendence is part of it? In that case, the Ultra Beasts could be the beginnings of new bodies for Lillie, Lusamine, and Gladion (whether Lillie and Gladion want them or not), impervious to the passage of time. Maybe Lusamine's ultimate goal is to "transmute" the world as a whole, complete the Great Work on a planet-wide scale?
Getting back to the alchemy theme lying behind the Aether Foundation, we might want to take a look at what alchemy's goals were. Changing lead to gold was just preparation for making the Philosopher's Stone, but I have to wonder about the other goals that alchemists looked to. Checking Wikipedia's alchemy entry, the big thing about alchemy was perfection of body and soul, with possible connections to Gnosticism. I wonder if transcendence is part of it? In that case, the Ultra Beasts could be the beginnings of new bodies for Lillie, Lusamine, and Gladion (whether Lillie and Gladion want them or not), impervious to the passage of time. Maybe Lusamine's ultimate goal is to "transmute" the world as a whole, complete the Great Work on a planet-wide scale?
No where has it been out right said that Ultra Beast aren't Pokemon, but all the official information from TPCi has avoided calling them Pokemon, even saying they pose a threat to humans and Pokemon. They're also listed serperately from the new Alola Pokemon on the sun-moon site, which Serebii followed and created their own page instead of placing them with Pokemon. http://serebii.net/sunmoon/ultrabeasts.shtml
Personally I'm pretty hyped for the Ultra beast, as long as they don't turn out to be pokémon. It means we might be getting more boss-like battles in future game, which is something I really want. I imagine it could be machines similar to those Team Rocket use in the anime or pokémon that's been exposed to some strange power and turned big and crazy. I think it would be cool, as so far we only had like the gym battles, Evil Team leader and E4 as "boss battles". UB-01 can change shapes, so I imagine that it could have like 4-6 formes you have to beat!
Personally I really like Rockruffs evolutions dayforme! A wolf pokémon was my biggest hope this gen, and I think the design is awesome! The night form is okay, but a bit to similar to Zoroark. I could still see myself use it on my second playthrought thought.
Personally I really like Rockruffs evolutions dayforme! A wolf pokémon was my biggest hope this gen, and I think the design is awesome! The night form is okay, but a bit to similar to Zoroark. I could still see myself use it on my second playthrought thought.
After watching a lot of videos and going through information, I've been taking a look at the new Ultra Beasts.
First of all, UB-02 Expansion is the one said to look like Gladion. Personally, I'm not seeing the connection, but right now, with all of the Ultra Beasts looking strangely like characters from the game, Gladion is the closest person we have, so unless another character we don't know about turns up, we'll have to go with him. Also, one video pointed out that UB-02-E looked like a mosquito. It makes sense but I'll get to that in a minute.
UB-02 Beauty does look a lot like Lusamine, for obvious reasons, but what I've noticed is that there is almost no information of Lusamine at all. The site goes on about how much Faba loves his green sunglasses and how all the employees love Wicke, but all we get all Lusamine is:
"Aether's Glamorous President" (Video)
"The lovely Lusamine functions as the Aether Foundation’s president." (Website)
Basically nothing. The one thing we do know is that Lusamine is beautiful, which makes perfect sense for her to be UB-02-B. Also, UB-02-B seems to be based on a cockroach (apparently), which also makes sense as version exclusives usually have something in common, and they're both based on bugs.
That's what I've found anyway, but it seems to be a lot.
First of all, UB-02 Expansion is the one said to look like Gladion. Personally, I'm not seeing the connection, but right now, with all of the Ultra Beasts looking strangely like characters from the game, Gladion is the closest person we have, so unless another character we don't know about turns up, we'll have to go with him. Also, one video pointed out that UB-02-E looked like a mosquito. It makes sense but I'll get to that in a minute.
UB-02 Beauty does look a lot like Lusamine, for obvious reasons, but what I've noticed is that there is almost no information of Lusamine at all. The site goes on about how much Faba loves his green sunglasses and how all the employees love Wicke, but all we get all Lusamine is:
"Aether's Glamorous President" (Video)
"The lovely Lusamine functions as the Aether Foundation’s president." (Website)
Basically nothing. The one thing we do know is that Lusamine is beautiful, which makes perfect sense for her to be UB-02-B. Also, UB-02-B seems to be based on a cockroach (apparently), which also makes sense as version exclusives usually have something in common, and they're both based on bugs.
That's what I've found anyway, but it seems to be a lot.
Man, I was wondering about it, and the answer is totally unclear. There are Pokémon made from all kinds of things. There are Alien Pokémon, dead Pokémon, toy Pokémon, digital Pokémon, god Pokémon.
I dare say all creatures from this dimension are Pokémon. Yeah, Giratina comes from another dimension, but it isn't originally from there. It was banned by Arceus.
I have a theory that may answer this. Maybe humans are also Pokémon, but they evolved into a different kind of creature. All Pokémon seem to be able to understand each other, even though they speak "different" languages. Maybe a specific group of Pokémon were highly intelligent and developed differently. As time went by, this kind of Pokémon, now known as "humans" became the dominant species in the Pokémon world, and their higher intelligence made them create devices that allowed them to enslave the other creatures. Eventually, the devices became less a slavery thing and more of a bonding thing that helped the "lesser" Pokémon to reach further heights in power, making them evolve into different things.
Also, the "human-pokémon" were able to use these devices to transform the other Pokémon into bio-digital creatures, live creatures that are able to be uploaded, downloaded and transported as data. When they did this, the brain of the "animal-pokémon" was transformed in a way that store bits and bytes and have limited capacity. That's why they can only know four moves at once, having to forget one if they want to learn another, just like you have to delete files from a full drive in order to put new ones.
The same way all creatures on Earth developed from the same basic cells, and we are all basically the same in the molecular level, there can be an argument for this.
Also, there are hints in the games and other canon things that humans and pokémon used to have relationships. The existence of humanoid Pokémon can seem as another hint to this. They might have stopped in the evolutionary chain in their way to become humans. I could develop even further, but I think you get the gist of it.
UB are from a completely different dimension/universe, so they don't have the same cells that make a Pokémon. Therefore, they are really alien creatures in this universe as a whole. They make no sense to us, and we don't make any sense to them, so, when they come around, they try to take the form of a human in order to be understood by us. Or that is the form our brain recognizes them, as their real nature is too alien for our minds to grasp, so we see them in a different way than they really are.
Well they are made of Rock, so they probably don't have real hair like the "natural" canine Pokemon.
They're supposed to look out of place, because they're not Pokemon (as far as GF has confirmed anyway). We've never had any kind of prominent non-Pokemon monsters starring in a game before, so people are still judging them in the perspective of regular Pokemon, when they're actually a different species entirely.
That Eevee is one-of-a-kind. It is the only Pokemon with multiple evolutions (With the exceptions of Tyrogue, Burmy, which is also one of these cases -Wormadam-, and Wurmple, which is basically random) that do not require different kinds of conditions for each one (Espeon/Umbreon). In other cases, the evolutions are formes. Generally, multiple evolutions require drastically different methods (Such as Level vs. Stone -Snorunt-)
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I see your point, however...
1 - Bill was turned into a Clefairy
2 - He wasn't turned into some mysterious beast that is feared by both pokemon and humans alike.
3 - Said transformation wasn't forced upon him and neither was it permanent.
I do not believe Game Freak would implement something so sinister as bodily and genetic manipulation on humans. That's a taboo even in our society, let alone in a game meant for children ( Don't get me wrong, everyone can play it but we know who the actual target audience is).
Lugarugan: Midday forme looks great! I would use it always, even if it gets a crappy moveset. Sorry Cresselia, but now it is my fourth favorite Pokémon! Midnight forme... well, they could have done better. Being a wolf fan I'm kind of disappointed in it. Also, I wonder why Game Freak took so long to make a wolf Pokémon.
UB-02-Beauty: Let the conspiracy theories begin!... What, they already started?
UB-02-Expansion: It looks like something that could have appeared in Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal.
Pokémon Go: Not surprising, since Game Freak said something about that before.
Sun-Moon Ash: His face looks so wrong, maybe at same level of wrong-ness as Goemon Impact.
About my theory: Darn, I thought I would get something right! Maybe next time...
EDIT: Corrected, Lugarugan's forme names.
UB-02-Beauty: Let the conspiracy theories begin!... What, they already started?
UB-02-Expansion: It looks like something that could have appeared in Yu-Gi-Oh! Zexal.
Pokémon Go: Not surprising, since Game Freak said something about that before.
Sun-Moon Ash: His face looks so wrong, maybe at same level of wrong-ness as Goemon Impact.
About my theory: Darn, I thought I would get something right! Maybe next time...
EDIT: Corrected, Lugarugan's forme names.
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With all the Ultra Beasts going around and other things, my expectations of what the Pokemon series is changed. See, Pokemon is a kids JRPG. There's no going around that. While there are mechanics for an older audience, the core is children. As such, what I've come to expect from a casual playthrough of Pokemon is a mediocre plotline made up for by the actual gameplay. It's not really a JRPG with regards to its story. Enter the Ultra Beasts, entities that are implied (although not confirmed) to be Human or Pokemon. Seems an awful lot like what I'd expect from a JRPG. It sounds like S/M might actually try to have a decent plotline for once, that which falls in line more with a typical JRPG (although I highly doubt it'll actually reach said level).
I was thinking about this earlier today but I think I worded what I was trying to say wrong, oh well.
I was thinking about this earlier today but I think I worded what I was trying to say wrong, oh well.
It was mention already, but I think the fact the site list them separately from the Pokemon is the most definite answer we need.
I really like the idea of Ultra Beats DON'T BE Pokemon, since:
1) It allows to give it extraordinary stats and abilities for the sake of being a difficult challenge for the player without worrying about what meta can generate.
2) It allows for broken abilities that could be fun to see and test.
3) It allows for a different aesthetic far away from Pokemon, making the aesthetic of Pokemon more distinguishable.
Also...What abilities do you imagine for each form of Lugarugan?
I feel like some people are forgetting that time still exists in both versions. People are overreacting as if Moon version is permanently night. You can play Moon at 8 PM IRL and it will be 8 AM in-game. That's completely reasonable. It's not like you have to stay up til 2 AM every day just so your character can see sunlight.
Well, the official page avoids referring to them as Pokémon and even mentions them apart.
Like somebody mentioned here before, that also gives them the chance to give them crazy weaknesses/resistance. Now I really want to battle them.
Like somebody mentioned here before, that also gives them the chance to give them crazy weaknesses/resistance. Now I really want to battle them.
I absolutely LOVE the Day form of Rockruff's evo! At first I was unsure, but lord it already grew on me so much. I wouldn't even mind if it ends up pure Rock (low key want it to be part Psychic because the Night form looks so obviously part Dark, but it doesn't really look like it, so whatever). Just hope it doesn't get something lame like Justified for the ability, lol.
The Ultra Beasts are cool, particularly Beauty since the other one reminds me of Terraformars and that is creepy to say the least. I'm probably still picking Sun, though. I'm still not very interested in all of the theories about them and the story tbh. They have me excited to some extent, but as we know practically nothing about them so far it's hard to have something to be actually looking forward to rn, so I'm waiting for more info on them.
The Ultra Beasts are cool, particularly Beauty since the other one reminds me of Terraformars and that is creepy to say the least. I'm probably still picking Sun, though. I'm still not very interested in all of the theories about them and the story tbh. They have me excited to some extent, but as we know practically nothing about them so far it's hard to have something to be actually looking forward to rn, so I'm waiting for more info on them.
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Given there's a 12-hour difference, I guess that when it's "AM" IRL, it's "PM" in Moon, and viceversa.
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