-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Mareanie, Toxapex Discussion
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
There are two new OU viable spinners out there in Gen7: Phermosa (Bug / Fighting) and Dhelmise (Grass / Ghost).
Possible set?
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
Calm Nature
- Baneful Bunker
- Stockpile / Toxic Spikes / Toxic / Recover
- Poison Jab
- Liquidation
This is a highly defensive Pokémon and its typing helps it resist many large threats. Both defense stats are maxed out to get the best use out of said typing and Calm nature helps boost its slightly lower SpD by detracting from its low SpA. Merciless is chosen here to take advantage of all the chances Toxapex gets to poison the opponent through moves such as Baneful Bunker, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Poison Jab, etc. This allows Toxapex to always land a critical hit on its opponents regardless of the offensive move it goes for. Baneful Bunker is chosen to give a chance to poison physical attackers as well as giving Toxapex a wider chance of regaining health via Black Sludge. The second slot is a variety of moves Toxapex has that can support either itself or its team; Stockpile makes it even bulkier, toxic spikes helps spread status as well as making switch-ins costlier, toxic is overall a decent move to go for, and recover obviously gives Toxapex longevity. Poison Jab and Liquidation are two of the strongest STAB moves Toxapex gets and hopefully can take advantage of Merciless.
Venoshock can be considered as hopefully all of Toxapex’s opponents are or will be poisoned, thus meaning it gets boosted from its added effect + STAB + Merciless; if chosen, change the EVs and nature appropriately in order to add that extra bit of damage and replace liquidation for scald.
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpDef / 4 Atk
Calm Nature
- Baneful Bunker
- Stockpile / Toxic Spikes / Toxic / Recover
- Poison Jab
- Liquidation
This is a highly defensive Pokémon and its typing helps it resist many large threats. Both defense stats are maxed out to get the best use out of said typing and Calm nature helps boost its slightly lower SpD by detracting from its low SpA. Merciless is chosen here to take advantage of all the chances Toxapex gets to poison the opponent through moves such as Baneful Bunker, Toxic Spikes, Toxic, Poison Jab, etc. This allows Toxapex to always land a critical hit on its opponents regardless of the offensive move it goes for. Baneful Bunker is chosen to give a chance to poison physical attackers as well as giving Toxapex a wider chance of regaining health via Black Sludge. The second slot is a variety of moves Toxapex has that can support either itself or its team; Stockpile makes it even bulkier, toxic spikes helps spread status as well as making switch-ins costlier, toxic is overall a decent move to go for, and recover obviously gives Toxapex longevity. Poison Jab and Liquidation are two of the strongest STAB moves Toxapex gets and hopefully can take advantage of Merciless.
Venoshock can be considered as hopefully all of Toxapex’s opponents are or will be poisoned, thus meaning it gets boosted from its added effect + STAB + Merciless; if chosen, change the EVs and nature appropriately in order to add that extra bit of damage and replace liquidation for scald.
I see, perhaps 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 SpD / 4 Atk?
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Toxapex: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 127-150 (25.3 - 29.9%)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 135-159 (31.3 - 36.8%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Toxapex: 144-171 (47.3 - 56.2%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 265-313 (52.8 - 62.4%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 229-271 (53.1 - 62.8%)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 127-150 (25.3 - 29.9%)
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 168+ Def Amoonguss: 135-159 (31.3 - 36.8%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 116 SpD Toxapex: 144-171 (47.3 - 56.2%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Alomomola: 265-313 (52.8 - 62.4%)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 229-271 (53.1 - 62.8%)
Pretty bad :P
In my opinion..
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpDef
Bold Nature
- Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes / Venoshock / Haze
- Scald
...this can work.
Factor if duel screens from Alolan Ninetails and this guy is nigh unkillable with those defensive stat
I think Venoshock will be needed in that set. even if you go full bulk on ev's with the pervious post, a venoshock criting is going to hurt. I do think recover will be needed too just for a great recovery. I myself am going surf last so I can team it up with a Palossand for a easy 2 defense boost without doing too much damage to it.
Replace regeniator with Merciless and scald with surf(so I can power up my Palossand and thats pretty much what I am doing.
Just why? Regenerator is by far the best ability.
With Recover and Black sludge, you will be quite tanky and be able just ignore most damage thrown at you. Merciless with venoshock alows you to hit hard even with no stat investment. 120 power move that crits even from something with only 53 spc attack will hurt. Regenirator is still good though, and is a very viable option.
Having a way to protect and poison in one move is nice, especially combined with black sludge recovery as it protects itself. Reminds me a lot of my Grass starter from XY, Spiky shield and Leech seed and Leftovers. Just a way to sometimes do damage while getting massive passive healing is very nice.
I think having another pokemon on the team with toxic though will be quite helpful.
Baneful Bunker poisons anything that comes into contact with it. Venoshock deals double damage to poisoned foes. Merciless does critical damage to poisoned foes.
You're basically critting a mon with a 130 BP move. That hurts even with a 53 spatk stat
You've gotta run Rocky Helmet on this guy right? Between Recover and Regenerator you have plenty of recovery options and being able to punish U-turn partners of Voltturn is fantastic. I see the merits for Lefties but considering its attacking stats it can use all of the help it can get against bulky physical attackers.
Depends TBH. It's like Amoongus, but Recover>>>Synthesis, so it's probably more viable to run Rocky Helmet since you really need that to punish things like Scizor (Scald burns are unreliable).
But why would you do that?
0 SpA Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew on a critical hit: 127-150 (37.2 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage
It would need SpA investment to do anything relevant, and Toxapex's perk is that it's supposed to be unkillable.
Mareanie could take advantage of it in Little Cup, as it has much more interesting attacking stats. Comparatively, at least.
It's an amazing move for sure but this guy has almost Deoxys-D level defenses a far better typing, Recover, Regenerator, can't be poisoned and will likely be running Rocky Helmet most of the time. People are also going to scout for Bunker on this thing as well before throwing direct contact attacks it's way. It doesn't realistically need it nor will it likely get off Bunker's effect very often. It might be more useful on a more offensive set but on a defensive one I'd think it would be rather lackluster.
Uh...this is really good damage for a wall with no investment in it's offenses tbh.
For someone with no investments in SpA and only 53 base special attack, that is very very strong. You pretty much have the ability to be a mazing wall and be able to do decent damage. I see no downside.
Well Salazzle can Poison it still.
Thats true, if you cannot reliably get bunker off its harder to take advantage of the Merciless ability.. i just love the idea of this move, and I thought with another pokemon on the team that has toxic if could work. However toxic would be the better answer. I do already have a team planned to work VERY well with this pokemon I think.
You lead with Alolan Ninetails to give that double screens in 1 turn. That will make Tozapex nearly unkillable. Tozapex and Palossand work very well together since surfs from Toxapex will do barely any damage to Palossand, and give him a free +2 defence, making these 2 taking no damage. Oricorio is there as coverage and assisting, and will also have toxic to help Toxapex out.
As far as I can tell, Crobat does NOT get Merciless.
Holy shit this pokemon is so interesting. it pretty much fits my playstyle of bulky attackers EXACTLY, I like it so much..
merciless is gonna be interesting as fuck to play around with, but it can also have regenerate and recover @_@ its movepool, typing, abilities, and stats are all super good. I might be overestimating his offensive capability though, but even with that horrendous attack, merciless and poison stacked together seems pretty decent for a pokemon that fat.
merciless is gonna be interesting as fuck to play around with, but it can also have regenerate and recover @_@ its movepool, typing, abilities, and stats are all super good. I might be overestimating his offensive capability though, but even with that horrendous attack, merciless and poison stacked together seems pretty decent for a pokemon that fat.
I think it will get off decent damage, especially since it can poison so reliably with Baneful Bunker. It also pairs up really well with Shiinotic in Doubles. Like they were made specifically to be partners well.
At last... I make a set that I really want for this Pokemon in VGC or Battle Spot. This is the set that I'm gonna use or just make:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 140 Def / 60 SpA / 12 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
Note:
-12+ SpD EV survived 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus’s Thunderbolt
-60 SpA EV can OHKO Landorus-T if Landorus-T poisoned
-44 Atk EV 2-hit KO 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith with Leftover and poison damage
-Baneful Bunker to spread the Poison, also for protection
For the team would be Toxapex, Salazzle, Tapu Bulu, Salamence, Oranguru, Silvally[dark]
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 140 Def / 60 SpA / 12 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
Note:
-12+ SpD EV survived 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus’s Thunderbolt
-60 SpA EV can OHKO Landorus-T if Landorus-T poisoned
-44 Atk EV 2-hit KO 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith with Leftover and poison damage
-Baneful Bunker to spread the Poison, also for protection
For the team would be Toxapex, Salazzle, Tapu Bulu, Salamence, Oranguru, Silvally[dark]
Last edited:
Actually on everything that doesn't have Drifblim-like stat distribution. I did the math a few years ago, 252 HP is always optimal on a purely defensive spread when (base Def) + (base SDef) - (base HP) is equal or higher than 34 (which applies to the vast majority of all defensive 'mons).