Trying to theorymon a team centered around Koko and Surf Raichu, any ideas? Not getting access to Fake Out really blows, but seems like there's potential there combined with Rain supporter.
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
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Yep, I was thinking of going with Alolan-Raichu as well. Just thought it might be interesting to try something with it :)
My son and I inch forward in the multis tree, up to battle 34 today. Decided to change Substitute to Encore on Gardevoirs set, wow, what a change. We'd hardly ever used Substitute, and granted when we did it was very good, but I felt like something else could offer more. Encore is definitely that move. In multis, where you want to remove one side ASAP Encore gives you a lot of chances to essentially do just that. One game there was an opposing Weavile lead, Gardevoir protects on Weaviles Fake Out, and Mega-Blastoise Icy Winds. Next turn Weavile is encored into Fake Out and that's basically the whole game as we annihilate the other side ignoring Weavile. I would say we used Encore in at least half the games played today. AV Bisharp did a ton of work too, switched into a couple of stat lowering moves and wrecked house in those games. A couple of scary games where my son forgot to mega though ><
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I feel like they're even better in multis where locking in a 2 v 1 is more beneficial given the limited switching opportunities.
kuladiamond
If you look for ideas, i spent much time in theorizing a Tapu Koko + Raichu team (see on page 98).
And Lightningrod and Fake Out should outclass Surf in almost any case.
If you look for ideas, i spent much time in theorizing a Tapu Koko + Raichu team (see on page 98).
And Lightningrod and Fake Out should outclass Surf in almost any case.
turskain has been snooping around this channel further since then and has discovered the QR code for this team:
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/sm/BT-C1BD-4879 ('バトルツリー スーパーダブル200連勝')
While the team members are familiar and the concept the same as with a couple of other PheroLele teams featured, the team is shared here due to its success rate and the triple STAB employed by this particular Lele set.
Since this post, we have had a few people join this little Tree-climbing community, and since they may or may not have been around for the BP Global Mission, it's entirely possible that these sample teams are unknown to some. Since it's becoming doubtful that I will rebuild the Q.R.T.O.O. at the rate I'm going, I will re-share them here, for reference and for those who desire...a bit more of a challenge:
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/sm/BT-4827-9CD1 ('Singles Sample')
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/sm/BT-4990-AD9C ('Doubles Sample')
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It does create an asshole-clenching moment... not unlike locking in a move with a significant drawback when you meant to use the Z-variant :P
Currently working on a super doubles streak that is at 112 right now:
Team Details
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor
- Protect
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect
At a first glance this team seems weak to ground but the combination of salamence+intimidate and aegislash+wide-guard works well to mitigate this. -spe natures are chosen for aegislash and tyranitar for trick room. Crunch can be an alternate move for tyranitar but the loss of type coverage is significant.
Team Details
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 60 Atk / 196 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor
- Protect
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
Aegislash @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
Tyranitar @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect
At a first glance this team seems weak to ground but the combination of salamence+intimidate and aegislash+wide-guard works well to mitigate this. -spe natures are chosen for aegislash and tyranitar for trick room. Crunch can be an alternate move for tyranitar but the loss of type coverage is significant.
After much grinding on on the GTS, (and my reluctance to pay £5 a year for pokebank) I finally got a Truant Durant in a trade. now the real fun in super singles can begin.
And with help from my mate who was able to obtain a Venonat for me from GTS i can now have my old super singles Battle Maison team with my old pal Venomoth!!
You can find my old record on the Maison thread where I secured a 265 win streak but lost to a soundproof Abomnasnow. things are a little different now in the battle tree. instead of running Bug Buzz on Venomoth, i'm now running Signal Beam, just because of soundproof.
Also the buff to dark types being unaffected by prankster, has meant that my old Meowstic setup with choice scarf/ trick is dead. but i found a solution.
Sableye is one of the few prankster Pokemon who is also unaffected by opposing prankster Pokemon because of its dark typing, but unlike the other prankster dark types like Murkrow and Liepard, it has an option to use taunt successfully on opposing lead Pokemon, if it changes its ability by Mega evolving into mega Sableye. The prankster ability is overwritten with magic bounce. now you can use turn 1 taunt on lead dark types.
Lead Espeon with magic bounce dies to knock off which is fun, and i can always use protect on Absol to scout if its a mega or not.
Absol might be the single biggest threat to prankster leads in gen 7.
And with help from my mate who was able to obtain a Venonat for me from GTS i can now have my old super singles Battle Maison team with my old pal Venomoth!!
You can find my old record on the Maison thread where I secured a 265 win streak but lost to a soundproof Abomnasnow. things are a little different now in the battle tree. instead of running Bug Buzz on Venomoth, i'm now running Signal Beam, just because of soundproof.
Also the buff to dark types being unaffected by prankster, has meant that my old Meowstic setup with choice scarf/ trick is dead. but i found a solution.
Sableye is one of the few prankster Pokemon who is also unaffected by opposing prankster Pokemon because of its dark typing, but unlike the other prankster dark types like Murkrow and Liepard, it has an option to use taunt successfully on opposing lead Pokemon, if it changes its ability by Mega evolving into mega Sableye. The prankster ability is overwritten with magic bounce. now you can use turn 1 taunt on lead dark types.
Lead Espeon with magic bounce dies to knock off which is fun, and i can always use protect on Absol to scout if its a mega or not.
Absol might be the single biggest threat to prankster leads in gen 7.
Barely made it up there, much like my other leaderboard-worthy streaks, but I guess it counts. Reporting a streak of 91 wins in Super Doubles. I've used this team before, it's my Mega Absol + Tapu Lele team. I've quoted in below.
Battles:
Battle 50: ZF2W-WWWW-WWWA-EWQJ
Battle Legend Blue (Pidgeot4 / Gyarados34 / Machamp34 / Alakazam34)
Battle 59: RSWW-WWWW-WWWA-EWPP
Sightseer Christian (Alakazam3 / Chandelure3 / Vikavolt4 / Heatran24)
Battle 92: MNFG-WWWW-WWWA-EWZL
Scientist Robyn (Slowbro4 / Cofagrigus3 / Lickilicky3 / Tangrowth4)
I also messed around with another team prior to this, a Trick Room idea I had based around Mega Ampharos. It...sorta worked, but it's sorta volatile, if that's the right word. Ended up being a Trick Room + Rain hybrid, or TRain as I've heard. Pretty sure this streak of 48 wins in Super Doubles is the highest I've brought it to.
Team:
Due to the stupid 10 video limit, I only have my loss video to share, but it was not a good one. Probably faced the worst possible lead for me, as I had nothing I could really do, from what I could see.
Battle 49: RKFW-WWWW-WWWA-EWQR
Police Officer Rendor (Marowak-A2 / Raichu2 / Rampardos4 / Blastoise4)
Team:
Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 25 SpA
- Knock Off
- Psycho Cut
- Superpower
- Protect
Non-Mega: 141/182/80/82/80/139
Mega: 141/202/80/118/80/183
Not only does Mega Absol look amazing, it can hit pretty hard too. Knock Off helps remove any items, does really good damage, and helps remove Ghost types that otherwise threaten Tapu Lele. Psycho Cut acts like a second STAB move when under terrain, and does just a little bit more than what Knock Off would do without an item on the opponent. Superpower helps break down Steel types that can wall out Tapu Lele. Rarely used though, since the Attack drop can be pretty annoying at the beginning. Protect is really obvious with Absol's fraility and just stalling out things like Trick Room.
Jolly is the nature of choice to be as fast as possible, and the EV spread is a simple one just to maximize damage and speed. Nothing too special really.
Magic Bounce is really nice after Absol Mega Evolves. It essentially makes Absol immune to any sort of status. There seems to be a weird thing with the AI not recognizing Magic Bounce though, something I'll cover when I get to the replays.
Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 25 HP / 0 Atk / 25 Def
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
143/91/93/200/123/145
Good old Tapu Lele, one of my most used Pokemon in the Battle Tree. Psychic is STAB with Psychic Terrain, and Moonblast is an alternate STAB, mainly for opposing Dragon and Dark types. Dazzling Gleam for a spread move, which often chips things enough to where Absol can take them out. Shadow Ball is used for coverage and to hit opposing Psychics if absolutely needed.
Modest nature and 236 Speed EVs with a Scarf hits an empty speed tier, and max Special Attack to do the most damage. Everything else is just spread out for a tiny bit of bulk to make the most of the EVs. Spread is just a slight modification of Josh C.'s Tapu Lele on Sharkanine.
Excadrill @ Groundium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 20 SpA
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide / Rock Tomb
- Protect
185/187/81/58/85/154
The Z-Move user of the team and an Electric immunity for Mantine and any Thunder Waves. Earthquake and Iron Head are obvious STABs, dealing with opposing Fairy and Steel types. When Z-powered, Tectonic Rage helps give me a one time nuke to use without hitting my partner, though it is rarely needed to be used instantly. Rock Slide, while rarely used, helps against any opposing Flying types if absolutely needed. Protect is used to stall Trick Room and just take up turns in general when needed.
EV spread is again relatively basic, just to hit fast and hit hard. Mold Breaker makes Earthquake and Tectonic Rage even better, ignoring Levitate, Sturdy, and Solid Rock, among other annoying abilities. Excadrill is by no means the best Ground type ever, but it's typing fits it in pretty well, ignoring it's somewhat lower speed.
I tried out Rock Tomb from around Battle 50, just to see how it would work out. I didn't really use it too often, besides at points when it didn't matter if I used it between something else, but having a more accurate Rock type move felt like a good enough reason to try it out.
Mantine @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 148 Def / 116 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 18 Atk
- Scald
- Helping Hand
- Tailwind
- Wide Guard
191/48/109/100/192/90
The general team supporter and switch-in for a lot of different things. Scald is just to not be Taunt bait and to help break Focus Sashes if ever needed. Helping Hand makes any move from the rest of the team much more powerful, supporting spread moves or just solidifying a KO. Tailwind seemed kinda useless at first, but being able to make Excadrill's speed match with the rest of the team or just ignore Speed drops for a few turns is really helpful. Wide Guard helps block spread moves that can otherwise be annoying and potentially disastrous.
Since most of Mantine's weaknesses are specially based, a Calm nature is used along with max HP and a decent amount of investment to help it survive various Electric moves. The remaining EVs go into Defense to help improve it's physical bulk more. With it's relatively massive bulk, an Aguav Berry is the item of choice to quickly bring Mantine back to a health range that helps it take an extra move or two. Water Absorb gives Mantine an extra immunity and lets it switch into things for Excadrill, which gives a bonus of healing some health back.
Threats:
Trick Room: The team plays extremely quickly and relies a lot on Speed, so taking that away can cripple the team quite a bit. How I deal with it varies based on the Trick Room setter, but if I can't OHKO it with Absol and/or Tapu Lele, or there are two Trick Room setters, then I just hope to stall it out with switching and Protect.
Alakazam3: One of the Pokemon that gives me the biggest trouble. Outspeeds my whole team, and nothing I have can OHKO it without being OHKO'd in return. My best bet is to just hope that Tapu Lele can 2HKO it while taking minimal damage, or getting Tailwind up so something can OHKO it.
There are certainly other threats. I just haven't played the team far enough to see them, but I did run into these two things several times on this run.
Team Problems:
At the moment, I don't see any major flaws that require massive changes, like changing a whole Pokemon. The main reason for my loss is my fault, targeting the wrong thing at the wrong time. You could argue that there was a tiny bit of hax involved, but that could have been avoided entirely. I'll cover this more when I get to that battle.
Battles:
Battle 50: 6FPG-WWWW-WWW9-Y3PL
Battle Legend Blue (Alakazam3 / Rhyperior4 / Machamp34 / Pidgeot3)
First time I've faced an Alakazam. Dealing with that got mildly annoying, but once Alakazam went down, it finished up relatively easily. Also was my first Blue battle in quite a while, I haven't been able to get this far lately in Doubles.
Battle 75: JSTG-WWWW-WWW9-Y3PF
Black Belt Boris (Rhyperior3 / Aggron4 / Virizion2 / Regigigas1)
Aggron can get really annoying for Tapu Lele, and Absol can't really break through it either. A potential Rhyperior3 also means I can't just use Absol to take it out, as I risk losing Absol. A couple switches and a weird Magic Bounce interaction makes it easier, as it allows me to ignore Aggron for the most part and deal with the other side, then nuke Aggron to finish it off.
As seen in this battle, the opposing Aggron continuously uses Thunder Wave into Absol, who has Magic Bounce and thus is essentially immune to it. This happened several other times in this streak, at least 3 times I know for sure, all of which I saved the battle for. Seems to be something similar to how the AI reacts to Misty Terrain, but I'm not sure.
Battle 79: XP3G-WWWW-WWW9-Y3P5 (Loss)
Golfer Susanna (Tentacruel4 / Slaking3 / Zapdos3 / Salamence4)
A mistarget from the beginning, I'd say. Seeing the wrong Pokemon as the threat, I decide that a potential Choice Band Slaking is fine to leave around, going after Tentacruel instead, who could have had a Focus Sash. It doesn't, but Slaking takes out Tapu Lele in return, and Absol has it's Protect wasted from a prediction. The battle goes pretty downhill from there, since I have no good way to hit Salamence and it outspeeds me. I unfortunately miss a Rock Slide there, which may have cost me the game, but I don't believe it would have mattered, as a Zapdos in the back would be pretty annoying to handle with just Excadrill.
If I just double targeted Slaking right from the beginning, I should have won that. Absol and Tapu Lele would theoretically be able to deal with anything in the back, and if not, they would be crippled enough to where the back can take them on. Or even if the Rock Slide connected, I may have needed to take one less Crunch, thus not lowering my Defense and having just over half health on Excadrill, which should have been enough health for it to go down in 3 hits, assuming Rock Slide connected.
Final Thoughts:
I really like the concept of the team, and getting lesser used Pokemon out there, like Absol and Mantine, makes me happy that it actually functions relatively well. Very glad I didn't give up on the team immediately when I saw it lose a few times under 40 battles. I'll try another run after this post goes up, so some sort of update should come around.
Battles:
Battle 50: ZF2W-WWWW-WWWA-EWQJ
Battle Legend Blue (Pidgeot4 / Gyarados34 / Machamp34 / Alakazam34)
A relatively clean battle, Mantine coming in and taking a Pidgeot Hyper Beam to help set up Tailwind, making me faster than anything possible in the back with Absol and Excadrill, for the most part. I never figured out the exact sets of what I faced, as they all went down in a turn without doing anything, besides Gyarados, who only used Dragon Dance.
Battle 59: RSWW-WWWW-WWWA-EWPP
Sightseer Christian (Alakazam3 / Chandelure3 / Vikavolt4 / Heatran24)
One of the battles that shows how scary a Mega Alakazam can be. A wrong prediction Turn 1 could have cost me the game, as I would have very few ways to deal with it. Thankfully, I guess that it would Focus Blast Absol rather than Shadow Ball Tapu Lele. With that, I am able to get up Tailwind, outspeed Mega Alakazam, and take it out with a Helping Hand Shadow Ball. Tapu Lele unfortunately goes down, but it has done enough in taking out a big threat. At that point, the whole team is weak to a Helping Hand Earthquake from Excadrill, ending the game.
Battle 92: MNFG-WWWW-WWWA-EWZL
Scientist Robyn (Slowbro4 / Cofagrigus3 / Lickilicky3 / Tangrowth4)
An unfortunate double Trick Room lead. At this point, I just take a guess and double target Slowbro, what I hoped to be the only Trick Room setter. Sadly, it was a double lead, so I spent the next few turns stalling out Trick Room, switching in resistances and using Protect when I could. Eventually, I get into the position I want, having Absol out against Cofagrigus so I can take it out before it can get Trick Room up again. I prepare to have a Helping Hand Knock Off launched right into Cofagrigus...only to get a Quick Claw proc. Absol goes down, Trick Room comes up, and I no longer have what I need to stall out Trick Room as effectively a second time. I plan to keep Mantine and either Tapu Lele or Excadrill alive, so I can Helping Hand + attack to stop it from setting a third Trick Room, something that would mean a guaranteed loss at that point. With all four turns of Trick Room still up, I plan to keep Excadrill alive for after Trick Room, since it deals with most of the potential back better than Tapu Lele. My main hope is that Mantine gets very few targets from the opponents, as it resists a lot of their moves and is really bulky, so I just Scald to waste turns and try to keep it alive. A crit does reduce this bulk greatly and I lose Mantine due to this, but I still have both Excadrill and Tapu Lele on the last turn of Trick Room, and with Cofagrigus just under half health, I go for the knock out onto Cofagrigus with Psychic as Excadrill baits Lickilicky into Hammer Arm. Except Destiny Bond. I lose Tapu Lele in exchange for stopping Trick Room, but now I have no way of beating Tangrowth with just Excadrill. I hope for a flinch and a miss, to try and make a win condition, but at that point it was futile.
Not considering Destiny Bond was definitely big issue. I assumed that it wouldn't use it, especially since it only just got put into the yellow through a burn. Though, that may have not even needed to happen if Quick Claw hadn't happened, or if Hammer Arm had missed. I greatly ignored the threat of an RNG roll, and it cost me that game.
Not considering Destiny Bond was definitely big issue. I assumed that it wouldn't use it, especially since it only just got put into the yellow through a burn. Though, that may have not even needed to happen if Quick Claw hadn't happened, or if Hammer Arm had missed. I greatly ignored the threat of an RNG roll, and it cost me that game.
I also messed around with another team prior to this, a Trick Room idea I had based around Mega Ampharos. It...sorta worked, but it's sorta volatile, if that's the right word. Ended up being a Trick Room + Rain hybrid, or TRain as I've heard. Pretty sure this streak of 48 wins in Super Doubles is the highest I've brought it to.
Team:
Much like a lot of Trick Room teams, they struggle when Trick Room can't go up, but unlike most other teams, mine doesn't have any extra support. It really just relies on Bronzong's bulk and a little bit of hope/luck to not get prevented.
Due to the stupid 10 video limit, I only have my loss video to share, but it was not a good one. Probably faced the worst possible lead for me, as I had nothing I could really do, from what I could see.
Battle 49: RKFW-WWWW-WWWA-EWQR
Police Officer Rendor (Marowak-A2 / Raichu2 / Rampardos4 / Blastoise4)
The battle was basically over from the start. Fake Out can stop Trick Room, and Marowak-A can easily OHKO Bronzong. Ampharos can't do too much with double Lightning Rod potential and the back can't really touch one without going down to the other. I do what I can, with switching around, hoping to get a KO somewhere so Bronzong is less vulnerable, but the power of Rampardos4 Head Smash is too much and it rendered (Rendor'd?) my efforts to be useless. I never even see the Blastoise, only knowing it's there because of the battle video.
Silly question, but is there a site that shows he nature’s of the Pokémon in the tree? Wasn’t seeing it on Serebii
Thank you thank you
EDIT: Also, another question about Red's stupid Zard X. How often does he Double Dragon Dance? Because I think I can get him if I switch my lead from Ninja to M-Blaziken. Start with Low Kick (speed boost) and it DDs, I protect (speed boost) *it does SOMETHING*, I EQ.
So does anyone know how often that 'SOMETHING' will be a second DD? I imagine it would be a Dragon Claw and then Metal Chicken should outspeed but I am not sure.
just had a strange match i lost a win streak too. Durant's entrainment fails twice on a lead Wishiwashi. it was holding no item because i used knock off from my Sableye on turn 1. wasn't much of a deal since it was only in the mid 10's (not even a 20 win streak)
Is Wishiwashi immune to ability swapping moves?
Regardless, i'm now running Thunder Wave on Durant, just in case i see a lead wishiwashi again.
Is Wishiwashi immune to ability swapping moves?
Regardless, i'm now running Thunder Wave on Durant, just in case i see a lead wishiwashi again.
Looking for some strategy tips...
I'm playing Super Singles, leading with Dragonite, Adamant, with 196 speed EVs (the rest in HP). I run Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Punch, and Iron Head. I chose 196 speed EVs because it outspeeds jolly tyranitar by 1. Tyranitar2 and Tyranitar3 are jolly, and use dragon dance and rock slide. Unless they miss or I crit, they will beat my Dragonite if our typical battle happens (we both dance, then I use outrage and they use rock slide) unless I outspeed them (I can survive one rock slide but not two). Outrage has about a 45% chance to OHKO at +1. Earthquake will always kill at +1, if I change my moveset to have it. I'm wondering if I should up to 252 and just leave 4 in HP (or def or spdef).
196 speed EVs: 125 speed --> 187 after one dance (I think it drops the decimal part, instead of rounding up)
252 speed EVs: 132 speed --> 198
There are a bunch of dragons in between 125 and 132 speed, like certain sets of latios, kingdra, etc. However I don't think any of these can OHKO me, and I usually do a dragon dance first anyway, because I don't want to be locked in to outrage before dragon dancing. I will definitely OHKO all of these after one dragon dance. So I'm looking more at the +1 part...
Between 187 and 198 speed are some other threats, mainly all four weavile sets. When I see Weavile, I usually switch. If I'm at +1 with 196 EVs, I would also switch, because below is what would happen...
Weavile-1: No ice moves. This one flings a razor claw, so I know which weavile it is if I see it.
Weavile-2: This one has nevermeltice. If it uses ice punch, it has a 31.3% chance to kill me at 56 HP EVs (slower speed dragonite). If I use faster dragonite, I will outspeed it and OHKO with iron head if I'm at +1 dance (Iron Head does enough damage to OHKO it even at +0). If it uses ice shard, it's a guaranteed 2HKO either way.
Weavile-3: Can use fake out, then ice punch for a definite kill. (has focus sash)
Weavile-4: similar to weavile3, can use fake out then ice punch. (also has focus sash).
Other threats between 187 and 198 are some ribombee sets, but these have quite weak attacks and I can survive two easily, and kill them with a +1 iron head.
Noivern-1 is between here but it has no dragon attacks.
Greninja-2, timid, is here, and it has ice beam and will 2HKO me at either EV spread. I will OHKO it with outrage unboosted. This Greninja has rain dance + damp rock, and the AI loves to use weather moves even when it should be attacking, so I may get to outrage it without being hit here.
Salamence-4 (a jolly mega set) has dragon rush is in this speed range.
My other team members get shuffled around a bit, but usually it is Protean Greninja and Mega Kangaskhan. Sometimes one or both are switched for Mega Gyarados, Gliscor, Scarf adamant Kartana,, or Porygon-Z (which uses Z-conversion on Thunderbolt).
I'm wondering, what notable things will I survive at 56 HP EVs that I won't at 4? (or def/spdef EVs). It's a bit harder to figure that out.
I'm playing Super Singles, leading with Dragonite, Adamant, with 196 speed EVs (the rest in HP). I run Dragon Dance, Outrage, Fire Punch, and Iron Head. I chose 196 speed EVs because it outspeeds jolly tyranitar by 1. Tyranitar2 and Tyranitar3 are jolly, and use dragon dance and rock slide. Unless they miss or I crit, they will beat my Dragonite if our typical battle happens (we both dance, then I use outrage and they use rock slide) unless I outspeed them (I can survive one rock slide but not two). Outrage has about a 45% chance to OHKO at +1. Earthquake will always kill at +1, if I change my moveset to have it. I'm wondering if I should up to 252 and just leave 4 in HP (or def or spdef).
196 speed EVs: 125 speed --> 187 after one dance (I think it drops the decimal part, instead of rounding up)
252 speed EVs: 132 speed --> 198
There are a bunch of dragons in between 125 and 132 speed, like certain sets of latios, kingdra, etc. However I don't think any of these can OHKO me, and I usually do a dragon dance first anyway, because I don't want to be locked in to outrage before dragon dancing. I will definitely OHKO all of these after one dragon dance. So I'm looking more at the +1 part...
Between 187 and 198 speed are some other threats, mainly all four weavile sets. When I see Weavile, I usually switch. If I'm at +1 with 196 EVs, I would also switch, because below is what would happen...
Weavile-1: No ice moves. This one flings a razor claw, so I know which weavile it is if I see it.
Weavile-2: This one has nevermeltice. If it uses ice punch, it has a 31.3% chance to kill me at 56 HP EVs (slower speed dragonite). If I use faster dragonite, I will outspeed it and OHKO with iron head if I'm at +1 dance (Iron Head does enough damage to OHKO it even at +0). If it uses ice shard, it's a guaranteed 2HKO either way.
Weavile-3: Can use fake out, then ice punch for a definite kill. (has focus sash)
Weavile-4: similar to weavile3, can use fake out then ice punch. (also has focus sash).
Other threats between 187 and 198 are some ribombee sets, but these have quite weak attacks and I can survive two easily, and kill them with a +1 iron head.
Noivern-1 is between here but it has no dragon attacks.
Greninja-2, timid, is here, and it has ice beam and will 2HKO me at either EV spread. I will OHKO it with outrage unboosted. This Greninja has rain dance + damp rock, and the AI loves to use weather moves even when it should be attacking, so I may get to outrage it without being hit here.
Salamence-4 (a jolly mega set) has dragon rush is in this speed range.
My other team members get shuffled around a bit, but usually it is Protean Greninja and Mega Kangaskhan. Sometimes one or both are switched for Mega Gyarados, Gliscor, Scarf adamant Kartana,, or Porygon-Z (which uses Z-conversion on Thunderbolt).
I'm wondering, what notable things will I survive at 56 HP EVs that I won't at 4? (or def/spdef EVs). It's a bit harder to figure that out.
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This time i managed to take Durant to the mid 40's but a lead drampa used quick claw and used fire blast. i'm able to switch to my sableye which knows the move spite, and reduce that fire blast pp to zero but drampa's next attack activates the red card hold item, sending in a slowbro. i try to trick it, but it mega evolves and finishes me off. my last pokemon is Venomoth. i get 1 quiver dance off and survive a psychic. i use signal beam at the mega slowbro lives on 1 HP and kos me.
I forgot quick claw was even a thing in the battle tree. Had I of known i would of switched out turn 1, to force the opponent to switch.
btw here are the calculations for +1 Venomoth VS Mega Slowbro
+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 200-236 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Slowbro-Mega Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 144-170 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
so i got the 6.2 survival chance, and fail the 87.5% chance
RIP me.
I forgot quick claw was even a thing in the battle tree. Had I of known i would of switched out turn 1, to force the opponent to switch.
btw here are the calculations for +1 Venomoth VS Mega Slowbro
+1 252+ SpA Venomoth Signal Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 200-236 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Slowbro-Mega Psychic vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 144-170 (99.3 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
so i got the 6.2 survival chance, and fail the 87.5% chance
RIP me.
Forgot Quick Claw was even a thing in the tree! Well, I never!
Jokes aside, every gen has had at least one notoriously dangerous pain in the ass because of that item. DPP Metagross4 was a big one because of the good old Explosion mechanics back then. Donphan4 was also a bad apple until this gen. Now we have Incineroar4 and, as you've experienced, Drampa. IIRC the non-Steelixite packer has a Quick Claw as well.
Jokes aside, every gen has had at least one notoriously dangerous pain in the ass because of that item. DPP Metagross4 was a big one because of the good old Explosion mechanics back then. Donphan4 was also a bad apple until this gen. Now we have Incineroar4 and, as you've experienced, Drampa. IIRC the non-Steelixite packer has a Quick Claw as well.
I'm having trouble getting to 20 wins outside of the normal tree. (Yes, I tried pherolele, and after losing to Guzma at 10 I got my balloon popped.) The QR rentals do list teams, but they don't say which ones are newbie-friendly. All I want is the stamp, man...this would be my first time ever getting gold in something. Closest I've gotten before is 131 in the platinum battle hall (gold is 170) before misclicking with cb chomp, and that shit is really mind numbing.
Would be nice to get this off of my bucket list before moving on to some of the many other games that I should have beaten by now but haven't.
Would be nice to get this off of my bucket list before moving on to some of the many other games that I should have beaten by now but haven't.
Is there a couple of trailing zeros missing in that post?
Sounds like someone has just had the first of many experiences with Drampa-3, he soon will learn to hate him and Sina equally :D
The way DDancers look to be coded seems to be "Always DDance once, DDance twice if outspeed wasn't reached OR 1hko potential is not reached".
In the case of Charizard-4, Altaria-4 and Latios-4 which are usually the scariest DDancers, this generally means DDance turn 1 then go for kill turn 2 as they already sport massive attack and high powered stabs (all 3 have access to 120 BP stabs on top of a second 100 BP or close to stab)
This also often leads to double ddances or even triple ddances if TR is up.
Obviously as per all things on tree take it with a grain of salt, but looks pretty consistent overally.
I’m mildly surprised it took him until now to have a bad run-in with a QC holder. I’ve always had plenty of run-ins with Hikers/Workers (and at least one of the cops is a ground user) and Steelix3 is one of those enemies I almost always see before long.
Steelix stands out because if I don’t see the pink mega evo swirl, 9/10 that thing is committing suicide. Even Lickilicky will often use up Breakneck Blitz first, if possible (I think Licky3 is also a QC holder lol)
Fun times ahead, Quaggy! Learn to loathe that fucking item. Kukui and Scientists will be among your favorite neighbors and they pack frequent quickies :D