I think calling for a Xerneas ban is a bit hasty at this point. Dusk-Mane was by far the best counter, yes, but there are still answers to it.
Item: Power Herb | Ability: Tinted Lens
Moves:-
1.Geomancy
2.Moonblast
3.Thunder
4.Focus blast
Xerneas is the most benefitted from the ban of Dusk Mane. If given the chance to set geomancy up, this mon can sweep Ur whole team.
Checks : Xern has very few checks. No mon can switch in to this once it sets up. Unaware solgaleo is the only mon that check it. However a Z version can beat all of this.+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 292-344 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 264-312 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-414 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Hence, I would like to Propose a suspect on xerneas or tinted lens. I would prefer the former as tinted is only broken on xern. Both the z version and the power herb version requires running multiple check to it thus greatly pressurising team building.
As it can be seen through the calcs, every mon gets 2hkoed. Running unaware solgaleo just to check one mon represents how this mon affects the meta.
Just wanna say about that Xerneas set, what’s the point of running coverage if you have tinted lens. Sure it’s useful, but support like Defog, Aromatherapy or even Ingrain can run that slot better. Do not suspect Xerneas because it is way to soon to see how broken it is. We should wait maybe a month or 2 before deciding to do anything. Who knows, maybe there are plenty more checks out there, waiting to be used, like Aegislash possibly. I would like to share a few sets now which I think are good for SNM.With the recent AAA Ubers suspect test, the meta has changed a little bit. 3 main wall breakers stand out in the current meta which show little hints of being broken( maybe one of them is broken too). These 3 sweepers were either already good before DM or had been benefitted from Ban of DM.
Item: life orb | Ability: Sheer force
Moves:-
1.Psychic
2.Fire Blast
3.Ice Beam
4.Filler
Sheer force Mewtwo isn't unheard of.With great coverage and a massive spA and speed stat,This mon has the ability to 2hko 90% of the meta and has virtually no switchins if played right. Flash fire DM was the main check to this, but now, Mewtwo has become one of the best sweepers there is.Psychic works as the main stab move while Fire blast kills steel types and Ice beam is to counter mons such as Yvletal and Ho-oh. The 4th slot can be Shadow ball,Focus blast or thunderbolt for mons such as flash fire aegislash, espeed arc and kyogre respectively.
Checks and Counters : While AV yveltal is a primal check to this, it cannot switch in when stealth Rock is up. It is best to sack a mon and then switch in as most of the mons gets 2hkoed. Scarf users, esurge user when terrain is up can all ohko it. Flash fire users such as aegislash and solgaleo can also be considered a check although they can't switch in if it carries shadow ball.228 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Giratina: 317-374 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
228 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Yveltal: 182-216 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
228 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 214-253 (53.1 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
228 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 281-333 (58.9 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Item: Life orb | Ability: Adaptability
Moves:-
1.Spectral Thief
2.Close Combat
3.Shadow Sneak/Substitute
4.Stone edge/Bulk Up
Marshadow with its excellent typing when combined with adaptability is a monster in this format. Spectral and Close combat are staple, providing main stab to marsh while Shadow sneak is another option for a strong +1 priority.
Sub can help up with giratina where it can set up comfortably avoiding WOW. Stone edge is for ho-oh which otherwise can survive a spectral and ohko it with BB.Like Mewtwo, there are very few switch ins for marshadow in the current meta.
Checks and Counters: The case of marsh is similar to Mewtwo where it can be dealt with mons that are faster than it such as Mewtwo,ultra necro, shaymin sky,mgar . However, An adapt boosted shadow sneak can sustain enough damage to all of these if SR is up which renders them with low health. Aerialate ray is another good check to it252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Marshadow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 346-408 (75.8 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Giratina: 328-390 (65 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Marshadow Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 124 Def Kyogre-Primal: 317-374 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solgaleo: 468-556 (98.1 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Item: Power Herb | Ability: Tinted Lens
Moves:-
1.Geomancy
2.Moonblast
3.Thunder
4.Focus blast
Xerneas is the most benefitted from the ban of Dusk Mane. If given the chance to set geomancy up, this mon can sweep Ur whole team.
Checks : Xern has very few checks. No mon can switch in to this once it sets up. Unaware solgaleo is the only mon that check it. However a Z version can beat all of this.+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 292-344 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 264-312 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-414 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aegislash-Shield: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Hence, I would like to Propose a suspect on xerneas or tinted lens. I would prefer the former as tinted is only broken on xern. Both the z version and the power herb version requires running multiple check to it thus greatly pressurising team building.
As it can be seen through the calcs, every mon gets 2hkoed. Running unaware solgaleo just to check one mon represents how this mon affects the meta.
Quick comment about a varient on this set:
While a suspect test right after one ended would be hasty, if it's for the betterment of the meta as a whole, I don't see the point of not holding it.I think calling for a Xerneas ban is a bit hasty at this point. Dusk-Mane was by far the best counter, yes, but there are still answers to it.
First, as you mentioned there's Unaware Solgaleo. This is essentially Dusk Mane 2.0, and you already mentioned it so I'll keep this brief.
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 146-174 (30.6 - 36.4%) -- 2.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Xerneas does not win this. Even with Twinkle Tackle, which would be meh because then you're not Z-Geomancying.
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Solgaleo: 270-318 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Second, Volt Absorb Ho-Oh. Much less reliable, but still workable.
Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover / Roost
- Whirlwind
- Sacred Fire / Toxic
- Brave Bird / Toxic
+2 252+ SpA Tinted Lens Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 180-214 (43.2 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Theoretically this can stop anything but Ingrain Tinted Lens or HP Rock Xerneas. It needs Stealth Rocks off the field, and you need sufficient offensive pressure that you can kill Xerneas some other way, because phazing alone will eventually lead to a last mon sweep.
Third, Marshadow. Clearly not a defensive answer, but check this out
Marshadow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Endeavor
- Shadow Sneak
This things has insane revenge killing potential if you make sure not to let it get chipped, which thanks to Magic Guard isn't hard. It can either steal Xerneas' boosts forcing it to either use its base stats or boost again over two turns or Endeavor + Shadow Sneak it.
Fourth, Unaware blob.
252+ SpA Sheer Force Xerneas Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 220-260 (33.7 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
You guys know what this thing does.
I'm not necessarily saying that Xerneas is balanced, but answers do exist to it. A lot of them are a bit matchup based and win or lose against different abilities. For instance Mold Breaker and Clones beat both Ho-Oh and Blissey (well Confide Blissey can put up a fight) while Magic Bounce + Rest walls several of these sets in return (Ho-Oh and Blissey again :X). In my personal opinion it's too soon since the last ban to call for another ban, although I would love to hear other people's input. I definitely won't be making hasty decisions though.
/tour new godsandfollowers,elimination,32,1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules Little Cup, +Aipom, +Cutiefly, +Drifloon, +Gligar, +Gothita, +Meditite, +Misdreavus, +Murkrow, +Porygon, +Scyther, +Sneasel, +Swirlix, +Tangela, +Torchic, +Vulpix, +Yanma
/tour name [Gen 7] Gods and Followers: Little Cup/tour new 2v2,elimination,32,1
/tour autostart 10
/tour rules Stabmons Move Legality, -Archeops, -Blacephalon, -Dragonite, -Hoopa-Unbound, -Kartana, -Keldeo, -Komala, -Kyurem-Black, -Porygon-Z, -Regigigas, -Shedinja, -Slaking, -Silvally, -Tapu Koko, -Tapu Lele, -Terrakion, -Zygarde, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Acupressure,-Belly Drum, -Chatter, -Geomancy, -Lovely Kiss, -Shell Smash, -Shift Gear, -Spore, -Thousand Arrows, -Kangaskhanite, Ignore Illegal Abilities, Ability Clause
/tour name [Gen 7] 2v2: STAAABmonsEvery single stupid time I forget that Weather Ball changes type. I don’t think Psystrike is the best option as it doesn’t keep its psychic type. I feel Agility is better than Psytrike therefore. Ferrothorn is now the only check I can offhand think of then, meloetta is really very good and deserves to be high in the viability rankings if people haven’t stopped using them
The point is that it hits Special walls, not that it's a STAB move.
I feel like that’s a waste of a slot, given that it can abuse Agility a lot more, and you can have something like Terrakion for special walls. That actually might not be a bad core tbh. But anyway,
Made the long tour code :). though, i think we only had like few days left and November is coming... :(
