Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

[dhelmise]

Hey I've seen this brought up throughout this thread and I don't believe anyone has actually answered it with anything other than "technical error" or "oversight," so I'm here to bring a new idea to the table regarding Attract Cryogonal.

Cryogonal is theorized to be based off of a glass mirror due to the number of light-based moves it learns* and also the appearance of its back side, so it tries to use Attract against foes in an attempt to cause them to get attracted to their reflection, thus immobilizing them.

*Aurora Beam, Solar Beam, Light Screen, Reflect, Aurora Veil, Flash Cannon, Signal Beam

Also even if it isn't partially a mirror, crystallized ice is extremely reflective

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hey I've seen this brought up throughout this thread and I don't believe anyone has actually answered it with anything other than "technical error" or "oversight," so I'm here to bring a new idea to the table regarding Attract Cryogonal.

Cryogonal is theorized to be based off of a glass mirror due to the number of light-based moves it learns* and also the appearance of its back side, so it tries to use Attract against foes in an attempt to cause them to get attracted to their reflection, thus immobilizing them.

*Aurora Beam, Solar Beam, Light Screen, Reflect, Aurora Veil, Flash Cannon, Signal Beam

Also even if it isn't partially a mirror, crystallized ice is extremely reflective

But Can Cryogonal Love?

 

[Guard]

Concerning Tapu Lele:
There are also projections on the back of the shell that resemble butterfly wings and a small black bump on the bottom similar to a curled proboscis. When closed, the shell resembles a bug's head with small wings.
-Bulbapedia-

Quiver Dance is literally called Butterfly Dance in the Japanese games. So why does Tapu Lele not learn Quiver Dance? Even Lilligant and Belossom learn it for whatever reason. (Probably because they didn't want to break Lele but that's lame)

 

[Siggu]

Concerning Tapu Lele:
There are also projections on the back of the shell that resemble butterfly wings and a small black bump on the bottom similar to a curled proboscis. When closed, the shell resembles a bug's head with small wings.
-Bulbapedia-

Quiver Dance is literally called Butterfly Dance in the Japanese games. So why does Tapu Lele not learn Quiver Dance? Even Lilligant and Belossom learn it for whatever reason. (Probably because they didn't want to break Lele but that's lame)

It doesn't help that Tapu Lele's name references butterflies.

 

[Guard]

It doesn't help that Tapu Lele's name references butterflies.

Precisely

 

[Talpr0ne]

(Probably because they didn't want to break Lele but that's lame)

This is exactly the reason. It's not an uncommon occurrence across the series either.

 

[Scorpio]

Speaking of Quiver Dance, it’s a bit disappointing Lumineon didn’t get it. It already gets a fair few Bug moves to compliment the whole ‘butterfly fish’ theme, and QD would really help set it apart from basically every other fish ‘mon in existence.

 

[Cresselia92]

Speaking of Quiver Dance, it’s a bit disappointing Lumineon didn’t get it. It already gets a fair few Bug moves to compliment the whole ‘butterfly fish’ theme, and QD would really help set it apart from basically every other fish ‘mon in existence.

Indeed. Heck, in one of Finneon’s dex entries, it’s literally nicknamed the “Beautifly of the Sea”.

 

[Random Passerby]

Tyranitar and Rhydon randomly being able to learn Surf despite being weak to it.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Tyranitar and Rhydon randomly being able to learn Surf despite being weak to it.

Tyranitar and Rhydon are also weak to Ground and Fighting. Does that mean they shouldn't learn Earthquake and Superpower?

 

[Random Passerby]

Tyranitar and Rhydon are also weak to Ground and Fighting. Does that mean they shouldn't learn Earthquake and Superpower?

You'd expect big bad monsters to be able to shake the ground or hit things really hard.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You'd expect big bad monsters to be able to shake the ground or hit things really hard.

I'd also expect that if one of them did a cannonball, it would create a huge-ass wave.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Speaking of Rhydon learning Surf, Gyarados can learn numerous Electric-type moves such as Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave. Most Water-types don't gain access to Electric-type moves.

 

[Worldie]

Speaking of Rhydon learning Surf, Gyarados can learn numerous Electric-type moves such as Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave. Most Water-types don't gain access to Electric-type moves.

Gyarados learning thunder/fire moves has a lot to do with being originally aimed at being a pseudodragon type. Both its cataclysm-bringing nature and the fact dragon types generally learn those attacks means it's not that strange that he can learn those.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Tyranitar and Rhydon randomly being able to learn Surf despite being weak to it.

A lot of Pokemon were given Surf due to it being a required HM to travel around during Gen I-VI. But if you check to see the amount of Gen VII Pokemon that can learn it you'll see it's mainly Water-types with some others here and there where it would make sense. This is obviously due to Poke Rides now being a thing so we don't need to teach a Pokemon HMs in order to advance through the game.

Speaking of Rhydon learning Surf, Gyarados can learn numerous Electric-type moves such as Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave. Most Water-types don't gain access to Electric-type moves.

Could be due to its dragon/serpent traits, a leftover of it originally being a Dragon/Water-type.

 

[yourDeadGrandad]

Tyranitar and Rhydon are also weak to Ground and Fighting. Does that mean they shouldn't learn Earthquake and Superpower?

I read the point as being: spray Rhydon with bubbles and water? Faints. But ride it across the ocean, which is made of water? Why not?

It'd be like, if you were allergic to bees, and you jumped into a hive of bees in order to spray bees at your opponent for an attack.

That was a terrible analogy. I'm sorry.

 

[Worldie]

There's kind of a misconception of what "Surf" is.

Surf isn't per se the ability to float on water while carrying your trainer.
What the move does is the ability to somehow summon and direct / ride a huge wave of water. Literally surfing.

This doesn't quite require the Pokemon to actually stand in it. Particularly heavy Pokemon like Rhydon can technically cause a wave with a earthquake / rock slide and use those very same rocks to ride onto it or direct it in a specific direction.
While it's obviously a stretch to look at this "in game" (like a lot of other things, like water pokemon literally flying over land), there's even moments in the anime where rock types do use Surf and do just that.
(And I mean, Pikachu himself uses it in anime, manga and videogame, and does indeed ride on a surfboard)

 

[Detective Barricade]

There's kind of a misconception of what "Surf" is.

Surf isn't per se the ability to float on water while carrying your trainer.
What the move does is the ability to somehow summon and direct / ride a huge wave of water. Literally surfing.

This doesn't quite require the Pokemon to actually stand in it. Particularly heavy Pokemon like Rhydon can technically cause a wave with a earthquake / rock slide and use those very same rocks to ride onto it or direct it in a specific direction.
While it's obviously a stretch to look at this "in game" (like a lot of other things, like water pokemon literally flying over land), there's even moments in the anime where rock types do use Surf and do just that.
(And I mean, Pikachu himself uses it in anime, manga and videogame, and does indeed ride on a surfboard)

But the anime also had an entire episode focused around a Rhydon that surfed across water, so...

 

[Pikachu315111]

I read the point as being: spray Rhydon with bubbles and water? Faints. But ride it across the ocean, which is made of water? Why not?

It'd be like, if you were allergic to bees, and you jumped into a hive of bees in order to spray bees at your opponent for an attack.

That was a terrible analogy. I'm sorry.

There may be a difference between using water as an attack and just swimming in water.

When used as an attack the water is being sprayed at high velocity letting it pierce/erode through the Pokemon's body and causing a negative reaction with the Pokemon's Type.

But when just standing/floating in water the Pokemon's outer defenses is enough to prevent the water from causing any pain or discomfort.

And there's maybe something to this idea as let's take a look at the other Water-type HMs: Waterfall, Dive, and Whirlpool:

Waterfall: Allows a Pokemon to swim up a rushing waterfall. The Pokemon who learn it via HM/TM are either Water-type, live in the water, or at the very least wouldn't be bothered by water.
Dive: Allows the Pokemon to swim deep underwater. Once again, only learned by Water-types, aquatic Pokemon, or at very least aren't bothered by water.
Whirlpool: Allows a Pokemon to swim across a fast swirling water vortex. Now this is where things get interesting as some of the Surf oddities are here: Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Lickitung family, Rhydon & Rhyperior, Tauros, Snorlax, Sentret family, Sneasel family, Miltank, Tyranitar, Zigzagoon family, Exploud, Makuhita family, Aggron, & Rampardos. Hmm, it could be that, instead of trying to fight through the strong current, the Pokemon instead swims with the current and uses the velocity it builds up to slingshot it and the riding trainer over to the other side.

But the anime also had an entire episode focused around a Rhydon that surfed across water, so...

The anime can be confusing sometimes though. In the famous Pewter Gym battle episode Onix got massively weakened by the Gym's sprinkler system going off. But then during the Cinnabar Island episode where they were trying to prevent it from erupting you can see both Geodude and Onix lining up to "cool off" via Squirtle and Staryu spraying them with water as they helped throw rocks into the magma chamber. In the Sinnoh series the episode that debut Probopass had a plot point where Probopass and its trainer fell into a lake, something which they treated as very bad but when it happened Probopass didn't seem that much hurt from it. Finally there's been a few hot springs and beach episodes where you'll often get a shot of the Pokemon weak to water hanging out off to the side while the other Pokemon play in the water... though in a recent one we say Kiawe's Charizard perfectly enjoying itself in a hot spring. So the anime honestly flip flops whether standing water is still harmful/uncomfortable to Pokemon weak to water or they can be in it perfectly fine, so can't really take the anime's word on things in this case.

 

[Castersvarog]

I might have an idea as to why some Pokémon with claws like Zangoose and Seviper can’t learn cut. It’s likely due to the Japanese name for the move which translates as ‘Iai Cut’ which is a Japanese sword technique involving the user unsheathing their sword, slashing the target, and then sheathing the blade. (Iaijutsu Practitioner on tv tropes)

One can infer from this that those two Pokémon along with any other Pokémon that look like they could learn Cut but can’t are the kind to always be on guard, have their blade(s) always unsheathed to strike their enemy unlike other users of the move who can, in a metaphorical way, sheath their blades. This would also explain why the only Pokémon to learnt the move via level up are Kartana, a literal sword, a katana at that, and Farfetch’d to for likely similar reasons

 

[DrPumpkinz]

SwSh movepool spoilers

Power Whip is now a TM, so some Pokemon that didn't used to learn it now can. Let's review what now learns Power Whip, and what doesn't. As a refresher, here's Power Whip's move description:

"The user violently whirls its vines, tentacles, or the like to harshly lash the target."

What learns it that didn't before?

Gyarados
Either Gyarados uses its moustache, or it uses its whole body. The former isn't very satisfactory, and the latter doesn't really fit the description.

Mew
Mew gets every TM. No surprise here.

Palpitoad and Seismitoad
I guess they use their tongues? They are frogs, so they probably have long tongues, and that's presumably how Lickitung and Lickilicky use Power Whip. Though I don't know if Palpitoad and Seismitoad have ever actually been shown having long tongues.

Gourgeist
I suppose its hair arms work...

New mons

Sizzlipede and Centiskorch
These things have to be using their whole body as a whip. Again, not really in line with the move description.

Hatterene
The Pokedex says this thing has tentacles, even though I don't really see it, at least not on the normal form.

Grimmsnarl
Grimmsnarl is covered in hair Bayonetta-style, and the Dex says it can use its hair as tentacles.

Cufant and Copperajah
I suppose they use their trunks. That makes enough sense.

What DOESN'T learn Power Whip?

Octillery, Frillish, Jellicent, Inkay and Malamar

New mons

and Clobbopus and Grapploct

Octopuses, jellyfish, and squids are all animals known for having tentacles.

Onix, Steelix, and Milotic

New mons

and Silicobra and Sandaconda

If having a serpentine body is enough for Gyarados and the centipedes, why don't these mons get Power Whip?

Whiscash
If Gyarados is indeed using its whiskers, why not Whiscash?

Shuckle, Drifloon, and Drifblim
These mons have tentacle-like appendages.

 

[Yung Dramps]

SwSh movepool spoilers

Power Whip is now a TM, so some Pokemon that didn't used to learn it now can. Let's review what now learns Power Whip, and what doesn't. As a refresher, here's Power Whip's move description:

"The user violently whirls its vines, tentacles, or the like to harshly lash the target."

What learns it that didn't before?

Gyarados
Either Gyarados uses its moustache, or it uses its whole body. The former isn't very satisfactory, and the latter doesn't really fit the description.

Mew
Mew gets every TM. No surprise here.

Palpitoad and Seismitoad
I guess they use their tongues? They are frogs, so they probably have long tongues, and that's presumably how Lickitung and Lickilicky use Power Whip. Though I don't know if Palpitoad and Seismitoad have ever actually been shown having long tongues.

Gourgeist
I suppose its hair arms work...

New mons

Sizzlipede and Centiskorch
These things have to be using their whole body as a whip. Again, not really in line with the move description.

Hatterene
The Pokedex says this thing has tentacles, even though I don't really see it, at least not on the normal form.

Grimmsnarl
Grimmsnarl is covered in hair Bayonetta-style, and the Dex says it can use its hair as tentacles.

Cufant and Copperajah
I suppose they use their trunks. That makes enough sense.

What DOESN'T learn Power Whip?

Octillery, Frillish, Jellicent, Inkay and Malamar

New mons

and Clobbopus and Grapploct

Octopuses, jellyfish, and squids are all animals known for having tentacles.

Onix, Steelix, and Milotic

New mons

and Silicobra and Sandaconda

If having a serpentine body is enough for Gyarados and the centipedes, why don't these mons get Power Whip?

Whiscash
If Gyarados is indeed using its whiskers, why not Whiscash?

Shuckle, Drifloon, and Drifblim
These mons have tentacle-like appendages.

spoilers

I interpreted Gyarados getting Power Whip as it using its tail to slam foes like a whip. If that is the case, def strange other snek mons don't get it

Also, that guy who was complaining about Tyranitar and Rhyperior getting Surf because they're Rock types? Well they now get Hydro Pump via TR so have fun raging further.

 

[Hyper Cutter]

Hatterene's tentacle is that thing coming off her hat that ends in a mickey mouse glove-looking hand, I'm pretty sure.

 

[かたわれ時]

I’m curious about these few oddities. If they have been solved, don’t mind me, I don’t feel like looking through 52 more pages of answers and questions.

Yanmega can't learn Fly even though its Pokedex entry says it can easily fly and transport adult humans on its back.

Phanpy gets Ice Shard as an egg move even though it's a pure Ground type and can only learn Thunder Fang and Fire Fang out of the elemental fangs. In the anime, the Fang moves are often depicted to be made out of energy of their respective type (see Incineroar from the 20th movie) but Ice Shard? That’s simply weird.

While we’re at it, why is Fire Fang and Thunder Fang Physical then, if even Physical mons like Incineroar use the elemental energy? And why do Pokemon like Phanpy get it then? (Or does the anime also depict Pokemon using their jaws as well?)

Hariyama gets Brine with the Move Reminder even though it's a physical pure Fighting type. This sound just like the Emboar getting Scald thing, except even less understandable.

Gothitelle can get Thunderbolt but not Thunder. It's the opposite for Reuniclus.

Keldeo can get Icy Wind and Semisitoad can get Icy Wind and Ice Punch, but neither can learn Ice Beam even though every other fully-evolved Water type can. (And while we’re at it, how does Keldeo use Icy Wind as well?)

Zoroark can get Flamethrower but not Fire Blast?

Kyurem can't learn Frost Breath even though the Pokedex says it captures prey by freezing them with its breath. Then again, Kyurem also can’t learn Ice Punch so... (and don’t tell me it was for balancing purposes, because Frost Breath is hardly usable).

A number of Pokemon movepool oddities would be explained with ‘balancing’ purposes, but removing a single good move that a Pokemon can is supposed to be able to do seems too much, even for ‘balancing’ reasons. (Not that I care if these Pokemon get banned to Ubers for a particular move (Keldeo with Ice Beam, Kyurem-Black with Ice Punch).)

 

[Panic Station]

Hariyama with Brine is a reference to sumo wrestlers ritualistically throwing salt at the start of matches. Brine is the closest equivalent, since it's a spray of salt water.