If you aren't abusing with your G/D-max then you are doing something VERY wrong. Using G-max lapras just puts you at a disadvantage. Unlike ninetales/grimsnarl you can only set up the screens once, so even with light clay you only have 8 turns to capitalise enough that the game is won, whereas with other screeners you can try again.I can see your point. Lapras has the advantage of firing of a Base 120-130 BP Ice move while setting up it's screens so it isn't giving away turns while doing so. And between that and Max Geyser, there aren't a lot of mons that comfortably switch in and it can set up the rain for something like Dracovish or Barraskewda while doubling their bulk with veil. You wouldn't primarily be depending on Lapras to set up rain, but there's utility there. Since it's decently slow, it's rain would get set over most other mons using Max moves that change weather.
Lapras is the one supporting the team with veil and potential rain support. I don't really think that Lapras is supposed to be abusing much. It's supposed to be paired with teammates that benefit from it's support. Outside of it's G-Max, I guess there's options like Freeze Dry, Perish Song, etc that give it decent utility.
So we should make the game less competitive and worse for players to prep for and play just because it’s the gens gimmick and you’re scared it’d make the tier dull if it left? You made no effort to try and argue actual reasons as to why dynamax isn’t broken. Why should we even care what Gamefreak calls the defining mechanic of the gen (the gimmick)? Our tiering philosophy is a lot more complex and sophisticated than that and we shouldn’t be limiting ourselves like that. Those “themes” are just mechanics of the gen and how we play them differently. As has been said a trillion times in this thread alone, the way dynamax alters how we play is unhealthy and overcentralizing, so we shouldn’t care cause it’s fun to watch (debatable) and it doesn’t make the tier “too stale”. I think the vast majority of good players would rather have a stale metagame that’s stable balance wise than a clusterfuck of bullshit that’s nearly unplayable that’ll have the same spammed threats that’ll eventually becoming boring anyway. Sorry for being so scattered.I'm not a terrible player and I enjoy the mechanic, i'm also a fan of our smogon generations having themes and being distinct from one another. This is to make things like tours more interesting, as the formats are vastly different from one another, and makes jumping between generations an experience in itself. That said while I've said I'm in favor of keeping the dmax as the gen 8 thing I'd be happy to concede the point with just the dexit thing and see where it goes from there.
The smogon meta of the generation needs to have a flavor otherwise I am fairly sure people are going to get bored. While we all love DPPT I don't think we would look at it so fondly with similar metagames 10 years down the line.
Polteageist's best set is probably shell smash/shadow ball/giga drain/stored power , max speed and s.pa. I haven't used polteageist much but i'm sure it would greatly benefit from Grimmsnarl's abilty ro set up screens with prankster and to weaken dark types for Polteageist.How's Polteageist looking? I've been trying to build a team around him, or a good core, and I've been having mixed results. Do you guys have any suggestions or experience using him?
This sort of mentality is a problem too. Okay we’ve banned Dynamax. Now what else can we ban? And when something does get banned, it remains banned just because it has a reputation, regardless of what happens to the evolving metagame and whether it would actually be fine to unban. A classic example is Darkrai. Only above average stats, a signature move that was nerfed so bad it’s unusable, barren movepool, subpar ability, most definitely would have been fine in OU last Gen, yet it’s banned because it’s the scary Darkrai with a reputation that’s no longer warranted.What are you guys hoping gets suspected?
Aegislash (honestly probably fine but its Aegislash yo)
Do you mind sharing other teams you've used to climb to #1? I'm in a heavy brainstorming phase and am curious as to what else you've used along the way.Hey people, I would like to share a set and a team which I've been enjoying a lot in gen8 ladder. I made my way to top1 without much trouble using several teams, but this one is by far my favourite (yeah many people have similar looking stuff but try to be creative in gen8). It utilizes RK9 to its fullest potential so I really want to share it :3
RK9 (Arcanine) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Snarl
- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun
I came up with this set after hurting my head badly trying to find a solution to darmanitan, clef and Trickroom hat all in one slot. Also "deals" with dragapult, mimikyu, corviknight, ferro. I know it looks kinda meh at first glance, but the truth is that many teams struggle to get rid of rk9 once its on the field. Lemme explain how it beats clef: clef normally runs modest LO+3 attacks (moon, flame and thunder), cuz unlike in smou, it doesnt have softboiled to stall out ferro's gyroball. So you have to run flame for it, the necessary thunder for toxapex, moon for stab. So rk9 becomes able to counter it since flame does great damage to offensive clef which in return cannot touch you. Snarl helps stalling OTR hat as well as stalling specs pult and random special attackers. Being a firetype with intimidate helps a lot versus darmanitan, because only EQ can damage rk9. In the team I made with it, rk9 is a soft darm check: yes, EQ will KO it, but as everyone knows, darm is impossible to check, so having an ice resist that doesnt fear uturn is p dope.
In this team it compliments corvi very well since together they force darm to actually predict instead of iciclecrashing like a dumbass. I started with the last 5 mons and added rk9 since it fixed the darm/clef/hat issue while being a switchin to ferro (no, clef isnt really a switchin when offensive).
RK9 Balance by Ktut
RK9 (Arcanine) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Snarl
- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Thunder
- Moonlight
I would usually not post a team here but I really love how this rk9 works in this particular team + several people wanted to know about it.
I started with clefable+toad+corvi because it was a balanced core I wanted to try, in particular clef which is actually good when orb 3 attacks. It seems most people came to the same conclusion regarding clef: it has to be offensive cuz fuck moonlight, fuck pex, fuck ferro, fuck whack stall teams. No chansey, free clef. I started with max spdef toad and full def corviknight: however hatterene soon changed my plans, and I had to make corvi spdef with ironhead. Uturn is a great move, especially with ditto: you send corv on drill or gyara, and then pivot out safely into ditto. Its been working wonders; ironhead helps a lot vs hat and well, ttar too ig. Clef isnt supposed to switch into anything really, just stops ferro from leech spamming and pex from walling everything. Once you have clef on the field, proceed to kill something, and dynamax if needed: lifeorb+dynamoves+200% HP turns clef into a monster. RK9 is the selling point of the team: you indeed need it not to instalose vs clef, darm and to a lesser extent, hat. Pult is standard, I run timid because I want to outspeed barraskewda, scarf dracovish/+1 zolt which kinda exist. Also helps in speed ties. Ditto is there because its the gen8 landorus ;; Answer to drill gyara you name it.
Also, why the hell am i a noob using mirror armor corviknight?? Eh. It's actually great: you can 1v1 specs dragapult and aegislash which spam shadowball to drop your spdef. Also helps walling MAx darkness and MAx ghost (both drop your stats). As you can see the team is short of ghost resists so I'm doing the best I can.
Why you need Mirror Armor: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1017026804-dfqusrwzycph5roe4h7vkiywd290u2ipw (turn 15+)
I hope you enjoyed this team adapted as well as possible to the meta, feel free to use it. I made 252/252 spreads cuz I didnt see what particular member would need a "clever" spread. Feel free to change that too, in particular speed creeping. Ban Darm, Lucha and Gyara btw. Assuming that nat.dex will be without dynamax, dont ban it in regular swsh: whats even the point of playing it if nothing good is available and you can't dynamax to feel different from natdex.
-Ktut
- I was going to say Duraludon but it has awful SpD and is hurt bad by M.Fire's SpA drop.What have you guys been finding are the best counters to the legion of Mystical Fire Fairies in this meta?
Mirror Armor Corviknight bounces back the SpA-drop, since it's faster than Hatt, it stalls it out.- I was going to say Duraludon but it has awful SpD and is hurt bad by M.Fire's SpA drop.
- Goodra seems like a good pick, despite its weakness; Specs Sludge Wave outspeeds, has a 6.3% chance (lol) to OHKO 252 HP Hatterene, and takes "only" 65.4 - 77.2% from Dazzling Gleam. But if Hatt has any circumstances in her favour (Trick Room, CM boosts, or Light Screen) you lose.
- Dracovish can switch into M.Fire and OHKO unless Reflect is up, but dies instantly if the Hatt predicts, and loses if Hatt G-maxes.
- Flash Fire Chandelure is a good option for Hatt specifically, I'm not sure how any of these Pokémon fare against the other Fairies.
So the answer is, basically, nothing? Thanks Game Freak. This final boss of a Pokémon dealt 80% to a Charizard on the switch-in with Max Flare after a couple boosts.
I know for CM Draining Kiss Hatt I can more often than not look at my opponent's lineup and pretty reliably know whether she'll murder them or not. The one thing that's given this set the most trouble so far is Substitute, particularly Hydreigon. If you can get a Sub up you're gucci and can block a nuke just long enough to guarantee a 2HKO.
One thing to keep in mind is that Magic Bounce blocks Whirlwind/Roar and Hatterene is immune to Dragon Tail because we live in hell.
Assuming no CM boosts... I have to say, as much as I dislike Dexit on principle, it has made me appreciate how well the current pool of mons tends to fit together cooperatively and competitively. Mirror Corvi stalling out M.Fire faires is a great example. Otherwise Hatt could dmax and Flare on a suspected Corvi switch and then the opponent just loses I guess? This mechanic is egregious.black skarmory
Sp. Def Mirror Armor Corviknight with Iron Head takes a big bird dump on Mystical Fire fairies. Every turn they hit you they lower their own Sp. Atk, while you roost off the damage or threaten with Iron Head. Continuing to use mystical fire on you is like signing their own death warrant as they get weaker every turn. After a few turns the damage isn't threatening and you can choose to U-Turn and set up on them if they keep trying (though they usually give up).- I was going to say Duraludon but it has awful SpD and is hurt bad by M.Fire's SpA drop.
- Goodra seems like a good pick, despite its weakness; Specs Sludge Wave outspeeds, has a 6.3% chance (lol) to OHKO 252 HP Hatterene, and takes "only" 65.4 - 77.2% from Dazzling Gleam. But if Hatt has any circumstances in her favour (Trick Room, CM boosts, or Light Screen) you lose.
- Dracovish can switch into M.Fire and OHKO unless Reflect is up, but dies instantly if the Hatt predicts, and loses if Hatt G-maxes.
- Flash Fire Chandelure is a good option for Hatt specifically, I'm not sure how any of these Pokémon fare against the other Fairies.
So the answer is, basically, nothing? Thanks Game Freak. This final boss of a Pokémon dealt 80% to a Charizard on the switch-in with Max Flare after a couple boosts.
I know for CM Draining Kiss Hatt I can more often than not look at my opponent's lineup and pretty reliably know whether she'll murder them or not. The one thing that's given this set the most trouble so far is Substitute, particularly Hydreigon. If you can get a Sub up you're gucci and can block a nuke just long enough to guarantee a 2HKO.
One thing to keep in mind is that Magic Bounce blocks Whirlwind/Roar and Hatterene is immune to Dragon Tail because we live in hell.
Wut.This sort of mentality is a problem too. Okay we’ve banned Dynamax. Now what else can we ban? And when something does get banned, it remains banned just because it has a reputation, regardless of what happens to the evolving metagame and whether it would actually be fine to unban. A classic example is Darkrai. Only above average stats, a signature move that was nerfed so bad it’s unusable, barren movepool, subpar ability, most definitely would have been fine in OU last Gen, yet it’s banned because it’s the scary Darkrai with a reputation that’s no longer warranted.
The games haven’t even been out two weeks yet. We still haven’t got showdown working exactly like it should with all the new Pokémon and changes. New and altered battle mechanics are still being discovered every day. People are still experimenting with new concepts. And here you are talking about what to ban after we ban Dynamax, which itself hasn’t even been banned yet! Future, future bans!
On that note, what are the top Corvi counters?
Hatt has access to Mystical Fire and it a very common move for the CM set of it 252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery while 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 196 HP / 4 Def Hatterene: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so i can't see a way of it out stall it unless your spam roost and it can CM on a predict roost if these spread are not the correct version anymore please let me so i can make a couple of changesMirror Armor Corviknight bounces back the SpA-drop, since it's faster than Hatt, it stalls it out.
A competent opponent ought to switch to a Corvi counter instead of continuing to M.Fire, and now you're on the back foot — or preemptively dmax, wherein a +1 LO Max Flare is a guaranteed OHKO and so is +2 Lefties. This is why I ultimately oppose the mechanic, even if it can make for engaging and tense decisionmaking; the ability to blow through potential counters destabilizes delicate matchup balance and lets any player ignore the food chain, turning hard counters into soft counters.Continuing to use mystical fire on you is like signing their own death warrant
Well yes, usually the gameplan is to roost off the initial damage and then u-turn the incoming switch. And yes, dynamax invalidates this strategy (as it does almost any strategy you come up with to handle a particular pokemon). Fun times.A competent opponent ought to switch to a Corvi counter instead of continuing to M.Fire, and now you're on the back foot — or preemptively dmax, wherein a +1 LO Max Flare is a guaranteed OHKO and so is +2 Lefties. This is why I ultimately oppose the mechanic, even if it can make for engaging and tense decisionmaking; the ability to blow through potential counters destabilizes delicate matchup balance and lets any player ignore the food chain, turning hard counters into soft counters.
Unless of course the Corvi just dmaxes and busts through its counter. Nice.
Jellicent's pretty cash money though, this meta makes me nostalgic for gen 5. Blocking Vish & Darm on top of Corvi is HUGE.
Mystical Fire drops the opponent's Sp. Attack by 1 stage. Mirror Armor from Corviknight reflects this stat drop back to Hatterene, meaning it drops it's own Sp. Atk by 1 every time it uses it.Hatt has access to Mystical Fire and it a very common move for the CM set of it 252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery while 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 196 HP / 4 Def Hatterene: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so i can't see a way of it out stall it unless your spam roost and it can CM on a predict roost if these spread are not the correct version anymore please let me so i can make a couple of changes