Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)

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Hatt has access to Mystical Fire and it a very common move for the CM set of it 252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery while 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 196 HP / 4 Def Hatterene: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so i can't see a way of it out stall it unless your spam roost and it can CM on a predict roost if these spread are not the correct version anymore please let me so i can make a couple of changes
I'm using a 248 HP / 208 SDef Careful Corviknight, the Bulk Up Version, which, unless Hatt dynamaxes, wins the match-up, as Hatt has to use Mystical Fire early, else, it gets swept, but if it does, it gets swept too.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Man why do some of y’all literally just log on during suspects solely to bitch about people wanting to ban something? I recognize some of these names in here that date all the way back from the beginning of SM and it’s still the same shit. You don’t participate in anything outside of suspect threads, you don’t bother playing the meta game before commenting on it because it’s usually very obvious, and you clearly don’t like the way we do things. So why the fuck do you care so much? Like if you don’t bother playing OU, because it’s very clear that a lot of you don’t the way you’ve been talking for the last two years, then why do you honestly think your opinion is worth any merit?

I could care less if someone is anti/pro ban or what. But when the same people come in here every suspect and are like so aggressively anti ban with virtually no meta knowledge it kinda just boggles my mind.

I hope you guys realize you’re just ruining it for all the anti banners that might actually have good arguments to support their opinion. Imagine what it looks like to newer faces or people on the fence are primarily seeing people spewing dumb shit all over the place on the anti ban side. It’s just gonna make them automatically assume that the pro ban side is right. You guys know who you are, why not attempt to play the meta or go play another format instead of just being toxic and ruining these threads time and time again.
 
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Hatt has access to Mystical Fire and it a very common move for the CM set of it 252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 214-252 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery while 0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 196 HP / 4 Def Hatterene: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery so i can't see a way of it out stall it unless your spam roost and it can CM on a predict roost if these spread are not the correct version anymore please let me so i can make a couple of changes
Does Corviknight not have mirror armor
Also most common set is Spdef BU so the real calc should be
252+ SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 150-178 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hatterene: 120-142 (47 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Notice for Hatterene I didn't calc for SpA drops over time plus Corviknight has roost
 
Wut.

Darkrai last generation would have been rather insane for OU to handle. You can argue that it has "mediocre" stats all you want, but it had the right stats to pull off what it had to do. Dark Void nerf hurt, but then you have Z Crystals that would have significantly boosted its damage output. Even ignoring past precedent I think freeing Darkrai would have been a major step backwards for the metagame. I respect caution in wanting to suspect and prevent a witch hunt, but there are Pokemon currently that do have a significant negative impact on the metagame currently with Dynamax still in effect (Darmanitan is one I agree with a lot of people on being kinda broken), and while I think some like going for Aegislash atm is a little misguided I can certainly see why they may think it too.

Your attitude in the thread in general perplexes me. Is there something you feel that Smogon has done wrong over the years? We (Smogon) have unbanned many Pokemon and allowed them to be tested at the beginning of gens beforehand (Gen 5 we even let Darkrai free!). We try to be fair in our suspect tests and take caution on banning and keeping things around I feel. Maybe some of the community disagrees and I can respect constructive criticism, but I have yet to see anything constructive really come from your posts.
I don't know if I'm missing other posts from that user or not, but I don't see them as arguing in bad faith here.

So like this is delving into 'tiering philosophy' more than the OU metagame itself, and I realize that's more of a policy review thing and maybe not appropriate for this thread, but I do want to at least say this: people have had pretty big issues with the way we've done tiering here since like gen 4. There's always been a contingent of people who are way less willing to ban stuff than everyone else, because they're capable of tolerating things that most other people are just not okay with. I can say that as someone who played DP during the garchomp/wobbuffet days, deoxys-s suspect test, etc, and was like fine with all of those ridiculous things (I actually don't remember whether I wanted garchomp banned, 'but still'). And it's like, that's not me saying I was right about any of those being okay to keep in OU! I'm just 'wired differently' or whatever, and that's okay.

My point is that it's pretty difficult for someone wired like me to try to participate in this community. The absolute worst environment to me is one where everyone is constantly looking for things to ban or complain about or modify (it's cool if other people like that, I just do not!). So yeah, 'what will we ban immediately after we get done banning dynamax, two weeks after release' definitely trips my internal alarm too lol.

For me, there was kind of an initial phase where I tried to argue well enough in PR to change how the community worked a little, and once it became clear that that was not going to do anything, I took a step away. I'm now effectively gone from competitive pokemon apart from designing mods, since that's something I can actually control. Maybe that's like, a good thing, I don't know. But I feel like it's not great to push people out of the community who are just understandably frustrated? A lot of the users you'll see who show up to defend things from being banned, even 'ridiculous' things like Dynamax, are just trying to make the community a little less hostile to the way they look at the game.
 
Now that after all this discussion about Dynamax being a broken mechanic this gen (specially on OU pokemons) i was thinking there is any possibility that we allow lower tier pokemon (or even not fully evolved pokemon) to Dynamax in higher tiers, in the case we banned the mechanic

Let's said i want to use Delibird in OU so i Dynamax it to make it viable (just a stupid example but you get the idea) its that possible? or too complicated? it will still make it broken?
 
Now that after all this discussion about Dynamax being a broken mechanic this gen (specially on OU pokemons) i was thinking there is any possibility that we allow lower tier pokemon (or even not fully evolved pokemon) to Dynamax in higher tiers, in the case we banned the mechanic

Let's said i want to use Delibird in OU so i Dynamax it to make it viable (just a stupid example but you get the idea) its that possible? or too complicated? it will still make it broken?
This is like saying we should allow double team and swagger if we're using spinarak in OU, whats the point of making restrictions if they don't affect the viability and it causes too much confusion.
 

Colonel M

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Now that after all this discussion about Dynamax being a broken mechanic this gen (specially on OU pokemons) i was thinking there is any possibility that we allow lower tier pokemon (or even not fully evolved pokemon) to Dynamax in higher tiers, in the case we banned the mechanic

Let's said i want to use Delibird in OU so i Dynamax it to make it viable (just a stupid example but you get the idea) its that possible? or too complicated? it will still make it broken?
If we ban Dynamax we ban it from every Pokemon.

This includes Gigantamax.

No exceptions.
 
Oooook... People realllly dont like Dynamax. Got it. But hey! have you all have you been using Froslass lately? ive been really liking it with Dugtrio, getting Hazards on the field and keeping them there. Here's an evil set Ive been using ^.^

Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Block
- Taunt
- Spikes

Straightforward, but this thing really fucks with peoples heads. Get this chick in safely, and shes p much guaranteed to either set spikes, and/or Dbond something. Also Block is good for anything that wants to switch in.

I like using her with Dugtrio and Corsola. Pretty evil shit. Hope you guys try it out
 
Hate to be "the Hatterene guy" lately but Hatt gets to come in for free against this set and CM boost until you run out of Destiny Bond PP, or switch. Unless Taunt gets bounced, either way sending this set onto the field at all against a team with CM Hatt guarantees at least one free turn of setup if the opponent either suspects or knows you're using a support set.

Calculator doesn't work on mobile for me, but you might be able to catch it on the switch with Shadow Ball over Block for some alright damage. Still need to switch out for fear of M. Fire but at least you can punish it somewhat.
 
Here's a list of some of my custom spreads and description included
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock
Avoids 2hko from bulky seeded arcanine under rain or smthing stupid like that

Centiskorch-Gmax @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
- Power Whip
20 Spe allows it to outspeed BU Corviknight

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-turn
Outspeeds +1 Drill

Rotom-Wash @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 148 Def / 104 SpA / 208 SpD / 48 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Nasty Plot
Survives +1 Power Whip iirc, and also instakills regular gyara, dynamax at +2. 48 spe outspeeds max grimmsnarl, rest is dumped in spd

Gyarados @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Power Whip
Outspeeds +Dragapult at +1

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
2HKO's Pex after rocks

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 48 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Break
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt
Outspeeds rotom-w

Probably post more later, but posting sun will take priority
 
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chimp

Link Together With All
I think people are underrating Ditto's usefulness by saying its usage is just a symptom of Dynamax. There aren't as many reliable defensive Pokemon anymore, making it more difficult to really prepare for the sheer amount of threats currently roaming the meta. Ditto is an excellent failsafe, and I feel very, very safe having it on my team. 'Oh, you brought that sweeper? Good thing I have Ditto.' Ditto management is a huge part of the metagame right now, because its presence is enough to stave off certain sweepers and wallbreakers, whether or not they rely on Dynamax. Even should Dynamax go, there are certain sweepers and breakers that would remain just as scary, and I can very much see myself continuing to run Ditto to have a catch-all for (most) of them. Point is, I don't think Ditto will drop anytime soon, even if Dynamax is sent away. Atleast not from my teambuilder.
 
Assuming no CM boosts... I have to say, as much as I dislike Dexit on principle, it has made me appreciate how well the current pool of mons tends to fit together cooperatively and competitively. Mirror Corvi stalling out M.Fire faires is a great example. Otherwise Hatt could dmax and Flare on a suspected Corvi switch and then the opponent just loses I guess? This mechanic is egregious.

On that note, what are the top Corvi counters? Toxtricity seems great on account of resisting Flying/Fighting but I've not used it myself yet. Always struggle to slot a 4x Ground-weak mon onto teams that somehow inevitably end up being predominantly Ground-weak already...Golisopod's been great to help with that though.

Rotom-W comes to mind as a hard Corviknight counter. It still is likely going to be very viable in the OU meta due to its utility options . Plus it also gets Nasty Plot now, which can also be of benefit to toher Rotom forms too
 
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I’ve lurked for about three years. I’ve seen nothing but passionate people care about where the meta game goes. Z-moves were kinda dumb in my opinion but they weren’t that bad to play around. Wasn’t a bad mechanic- mega evolutions were way tougher. Dynamaxing- that’s something else. The whole arguments about this mom does X under Dynamax I think is actually falling off. I forget who brought it up- maybe thunder p. We are bit hung about a mechanic introduced to a kids game to make it more offensive. Keep Dynamax to stay in line with cart. It’s that simple. The cart is meant for pre teens. We aren’t all pre teens. I want a good game. Ban Dynamax. Grow a sack and ditch the mechanic. No one wants it.
 
I think people are underrating Ditto's usefulness by saying its usage is just a symptom of Dynamax. There aren't as many reliable defensive Pokemon anymore, making it more difficult to really prepare for the sheer amount of threats currently roaming the meta. Ditto is an excellent failsafe, and I feel very, very safe having it on my team. 'Oh, you brought that sweeper? Good thing I have Ditto.' Ditto management is a huge part of the metagame right now, because its presence is enough to stave off certain sweepers and wallbreakers, whether or not they rely on Dynamax. Even should Dynamax go, there are certain sweepers and breakers that would remain just as scary, and I can very much see myself continuing to run Ditto to have a catch-all for (most) of them. Point is, I don't think Ditto will drop anytime soon, even if Dynamax is sent away. Atleast not from my teambuilder.
Yeah, right now, I highly doubt Ditto is being underrated.
You see the blob crawling around on half of the ladder teams, and honestly it's pretty much S- material rn
But if, no scratch that, when Dynamax is sent away, it will drop.
The meta will no longer have such a dominating offensive presence and Ditto will no longer have such a "insurance" feel
 

chimp

Link Together With All
Yeah, right now, I highly doubt Ditto is being underrated.
You see the blob crawling around on half of the ladder teams, and honestly it's pretty much S- material rn
But if, no scratch that, when Dynamax is sent away, it will drop.
The meta will no longer have such a dominating offensive presence and Ditto will no longer have such a "insurance" feel
I tend to disagree. I mean, I know it will drop a bit, but I do not think it will be super drastically. It brings a lot of value, especially in a metagame with a lot less Pokemon to play around with. Having a catch-all for nearly every offensive sweeper in a metagame filled with seemingly nothing but offensive sweepers and devastatingly powerful wallbreakers is amazing for any team, be it stall or HO. Even before Gen 8, Ditto was seeing some impressive tour usage in USUM. I think more people were catching on to its value on a team and I think its only gotten better with the jump to Gen 8. A dynamax ban will not be the last we see of Ditto.
 
I dislike dynamax a lot, but I wonder if Nintendo/GF would be bothered at all by an outright ban here (If this kind of talk is taboo just delete this post). Showdown has some of it's own rules from cartridge but removing the main mechanic from this generations is a bigger deviation than we normally see. Dynamax, however, is also a far bigger mechanical change than we normally see or expect going into another generation. A lot of people hate it. Personally, I think it was a big mistake (an unnecessary gimmick). Showdown does try to follow the rules of the game as closely as possible while making the gameplay as competitive and fun as they can for us players.

I hope a ban on dynamax doesn't bring negative attention here. I also hope that gamefreak sees the mistakes with dynamax and moves for a rework. It feels like they rushed it into the game without enough testing, or they didn't consider the competitive implications thoroughly.

Not gonna respond to point 1, but I disagree with point 2. It's been established by now that GF doesn't give a flying fuck about Smogon Singles. If they nerfed/reworked Dynamax it would be because it's found to be constraining and people complain about it in Battle Stadium and VGC, not an unofficial fan meta.
Well good. Hopefully they couldn't care less. IMO the game community will complain to GF and we'll eventually see if GF cares enough to make changes. Or this abomination can stay untouched for gen 8 and be sent away forever in gen 9. At the very least, I want them to handle generation 9 better than this. Looking forward to the next generation so soon is disappointing.
 
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
is a Pre-Contributor
I dislike dynamax a lot, but I wonder if Nintendo/GF would be bothered at all by an outright ban here (If this kind of talk is taboo just delete this post). Showdown has some of it's own rules from cartridge but removing the main mechanic from this generations is a bigger deviation than we normally see. Dynamax, however, is also a far bigger mechanical change than we normally see or expect going into another generation. A lot of people hate it. Personally, I think it was a big mistake (an unnecessary gimmick). Showdown does try to follow the rules of the game as closely as possible while making the gameplay as competitive and fun as they can for us players.

I hope a ban on dynamax doesn't bring negative attention here. I also hope that gamefreak sees the mistakes with dynamax and moves for a rework. It feels like they rushed it into the game without enough testing, or they didn't consider the competitive implications thoroughly.
Not gonna respond to point 1, but I disagree with point 2. It's been established by now that GF doesn't give a flying fuck about Smogon Singles. If they nerfed/reworked Dynamax it would be because it's found to be constraining and people complain about its presence in Battle Stadium and VGC, not an unofficial fan meta.
 
I dislike dynamax a lot, but I wonder if Nintendo/GF would be bothered at all by an outright ban here (If this kind of talk is taboo just delete this post). Showdown has some of it's own rules from cartridge but removing the main mechanic from this generations is a bigger deviation than we normally see. Dynamax, however, is also a far bigger mechanical change than we normally see or expect going into another generation. A lot of people hate it. Personally, I think it was a big mistake (an unnecessary gimmick). Showdown does try to follow the rules of the game as closely as possible while making the gameplay as competitive and fun as they can for us players.

I hope a ban on dynamax doesn't bring negative attention here. I also hope that gamefreak sees the mistakes with dynamax and moves for a rework. It feels like they rushed it into the game without enough testing, or they didn't consider the competitive implications thoroughly.

I feel like dynamax was made for the new raids that they implemented into the game, not for standard 6v6 battles. like, if you couldnt max vs the wild pokemon that come from the wild caves and some shit, ur probably done lol.

also cant wait for the "pros who play OU" who are clearly good and dont rely on dynamax to win to start complaining and crying about the inevitable dynamax ban.

they should take their own advice and adapt to the new metagame and

oh whats that? they cant adapt because their dynamax is gone? thought so. have fun battling wild gigantamax hatterenes with youngster joey
 
I tend to disagree. I mean, I know it will drop a bit, but I do not think it will be super drastically. It brings a lot of value, especially in a metagame with a lot less Pokemon to play around with. Having a catch-all for nearly every offensive sweeper in a metagame filled with seemingly nothing but offensive sweepers and devastatingly powerful wallbreakers is amazing for any team, be it stall or HO. Even before Gen 8, Ditto was seeing some impressive tour usage in USUM. I think more people were catching on to its value on a team and I think its only gotten better with the jump to Gen 8. A dynamax ban will not be the last we see of Ditto.
These "offensive sweepers and devastatingly powerful wallbreakers" mostly stem from one cause: Dynamaxing.
If dynamaxing is gone, Gyarados will see a drastic drop in usage, Hawlucha will see a drastic drop due to terrain setters being really subpar rn, Togekiss will likely see a drop, etc. Hell, even G-Darm will see a drop and that piece of icy shit can operate just fine without Dynamaxing (plz ban it btw)
The meta will no longer possess such "offensive sweepers and devastatingly powerful wallbreakers" with the banishment of Dynamaxing, and therefore, Ditto will no longer see such usage.
 

Ophion

The Walls are Crumbling
is a Pre-Contributor
I feel like dynamax was made for the new raids that they implemented into the game, not for standard 6v6 battles. like, if you couldnt max vs the wild pokemon that come from the wild caves and some shit, ur probably done lol.

also cant wait for the "pros who play OU" who are clearly good and dont rely on dynamax to win to start complaining and crying about the inevitable dynamax ban.

they should take their own advice and adapt to the new metagame and

oh whats that? they cant adapt because their dynamax is gone? thought so. have fun battling wild gigantamax hatterenes with youngster joey
If you actually read the dynamax discussion thread in Policy Review (idk why I'd expect that, seeing as most people on these forums who bitch and moan about suspects just do it to bitch and moan despite not knowing shit and won't actually read what the better players have to say while also not getting reqs to make their voice count anyway) you'd see pretty much everybody who plays the tier at an at least decent to good level is in favor of banning dynanax and have expressed many reasons as to why, and the ones that were anti-ban made their points and not many agreed with them on it for various reasons that were thoroughly discussed. So no, "the pros" are not gonna "cry" about its ban (it's so supported to be banned by good players z0mog's own tour banned it before we did, but I digress). And yeah, no one said dynamax is uncounterable, it's just such an overcentralizing, overpowered, and hard af to counter mechanic (has been discussed to death and even more than that so I won't give the nitty-gritty details to avoid redundancy) that no one wants it around. Why actually raise good points about why it shouldn't be banned to sway people's opinion on the inevitable suspect test when you can pull a strawman and contribute absolutely nothing? Cause that's what we do now, bitch and moan and not accomplish jack shit.
 
Wut.

Darkrai last generation would have been rather insane for OU to handle. You can argue that it has "mediocre" stats all you want, but it had the right stats to pull off what it had to do. Dark Void nerf hurt, but then you have Z Crystals that would have significantly boosted its damage output. Even ignoring past precedent I think freeing Darkrai would have been a major step backwards for the metagame. I respect caution in wanting to suspect and prevent a witch hunt, but there are Pokemon currently that do have a significant negative impact on the metagame currently with Dynamax still in effect (Darmanitan is one I agree with a lot of people on being kinda broken), and while I think some like going for Aegislash atm is a little misguided I can certainly see why they may think it too.

Your attitude in the thread in general perplexes me. Is there something you feel that Smogon has done wrong over the years? We (Smogon) have unbanned many Pokemon and allowed them to be tested at the beginning of gens beforehand (Gen 5 we even let Darkrai free!). We try to be fair in our suspect tests and take caution on banning and keeping things around I feel. Maybe some of the community disagrees and I can respect constructive criticism, but I have yet to see anything constructive really come from your posts.
I just think sometimes there needs to be someone advocating for NOT banning things, which is what I’m doing. People get attacked by the masses whenever we have an opinion that involves not banning things.
Darkrai’s strongest and only STAB is Dark Pulse FFs... the thing’s not that OP! I hope it gets unbanned in future or at least a test.
Aegislash was just an example of people clamoring for bans because they have past traumatic memories of when it was OP. But now it’s nerfed in multiple ways and overshadowed by bigger threats, and it has done nothing at all of note in the Dynamax metagame, and yet here we are talking about banning it???

And I don’t hate Smogon. It’s a very useful resource and great site in general. I just feel like there’s a select few people that get to decide everything and have opinions, and people like me don’t get much representation.

Edit: yes Gary, I know you’re talking about me. Hi. I’m back at it again xoxo

I’m not even against banning Dynamax. I’m against banning things like Dracovish because nobody can be bothered running Jellicent, Arcanine, Appletun or storm drain/Water absorbers on their team apparently. Give it some more time.
 
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Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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Maybe that's like, a good thing, I don't know. But I feel like it's not great to push people out of the community who are just understandably frustrated? A lot of the users you'll see who show up to defend things from being banned, even 'ridiculous' things like Dynamax, are just trying to make the community a little less hostile to the way they look at the game.
I respect the points you made in your post but the reason why I disagree with this particular part right here is simple. Ignorance. Like I said in my previous posts, there is always a large influx of posters who don't really know what they're talking about that come into these threads and just bash tiering philosophy or pro ban arguments without any sort of actual arguments outside of just "why do we always gotta ban shit, just wait for meta to adapt". Zygarde was around for like 3 years yet people still were saying the meta can adapt more during its suspect, because they had nothing else to say. You can see the obvious flaw here. I've been around for far too long and its never changed. There's always a few respectable anti-ban posts in these threads but 90% of the time they just get completely undermined by the shit ones. Anyone who actively plays a meta should be able to have a knowledgeable opinion on the meta even if it's controversial. I've seen it dozens of times. Even if it's an unpopular opinion, it is definitely possible to still have quality arguments.

If someone wants to try and make us look at the game differently, than they should at least attempt to become more knowledgeable and explain their reasoning with good support. Saying that we shouldn't ban something because we need to give it more time or because banning is dumb really isn't getting me to look at the game in a different way. It's basically stating an opinion with no substance. You can't just state an unpopular opinion, provide no supporting arguments, and then proceed to get offended when people are calling you out on it. If you want people to respect your opinion, put forth the effort to make a good post. Otherwise, you are responsible for feeling like you're being pushed out.
 
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I feel like dynamax was made for the new raids that they implemented into the game, not for standard 6v6 battles. like, if you couldnt max vs the wild pokemon that come from the wild caves and some shit, ur probably done lol.

also cant wait for the "pros who play OU" who are clearly good and dont rely on dynamax to win to start complaining and crying about the inevitable dynamax ban.

they should take their own advice and adapt to the new metagame and

oh whats that? they cant adapt because their dynamax is gone? thought so. have fun battling wild gigantamax hatterenes with youngster joey
How 'bout instead of talking shit about people who are pro-Dynamaxing you could actually contribute meaningful stuff to the conversation.
Like, you haven't addressed any points the opposing side made.
And are you serious about relying on dynamaxing to win?
In this meta, if you don't Dynamax you lose 9 times out of 10. Adapt until it's banned or adapt if it stays
 
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