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Sword & Shield **Official news only** DLC Crown Tundra 22nd October

Just to make this clear, you don't need a phone to transfer from Bank to HOME - you can do it with the Switch app just fine.

(Ninja'd about that one)

Now, about the matter of a children-targeted game having functions locked to the premium version of a mobile app... unless it's yet another cultural difference between Japan and the rest of the world (that Nintendo does not exactly have a good record at) and pretty much every kid has their own phone there, it's... difficult to explain at best. It's either that or "kids don't care about tradeforwards so the premium version is not targeted at them"; I can't think of anything else.
I have a pretty close relative living in Osaka, it's certainly not a cultural difference about smart phones availability. The situation is getting fucking ridiculous
It's not difficult to explain at all, and it's bad: bottom line above all, but they also seem unaware that you should also try to retain customers for, you know, future bottom lines.
The services proposed are the bare minimum with any game with compatibility and continuity content, and they know that the loyal fanbase that wants to transfer over mons and collections can hardly cope without Bank/Home. So, what they do is try to dumb down the game for the "masses" as much as possible (as if doing the bare minimum is acceptable: unless disaster strikes, they're in for a rude awakening when TemTem hits, mark my words), while gating everything behind a paywall for people that really want the service.

It's disheartening, really. Should't "kids" (God I hate the term) should also be granted the best services possible associated with the games they love? Moreover, why should the most loyal fans, the one that have put in the most hours, always been treated comparatively the most poorly? I'm not a cow to milk, you know.

And I'm not even talking about the prices, don't get me wrong. You can value and prices the cloud services you provide however the fuck you want. It's the lackadaisical service, absolute mediocre customer service and blatant ineptitude that I'm worried about. I'm talking about the convoluted mechanics and their evolution after q-o-l improvements were made in XY and OrAs:
1. GTS
I can actually understand not putting it into the games and make it work on the cloud service. The problem is, to not make it far worse than in previous games you should have the following: being free (check - even if a bit of a stretch), be it available at launch to balance not being in the base game (no check), have all features to be the exact reproductuion of proper link trades (no check -if items are not allowed this is a formidably bad downgrade due to item dependent evolutions). To make matter worse, from what I've understood, the ingame trade with friends at the moment is absolutely atrocious.
2. Retrocompatibility/forwardability (I'm inventing words on the go, just as a reference)
To not see that you can give basic HOME for free, but requiring bank subscription to bring forward mons it's sheer arrogance. And don't give me the "but 30 days of free bank" counterpoint. Nobody in his right brain will upload everything meaningful to Pokemon Jail in a month, to then have it sit until GF decides to patch them into their games at their own will. No, people have used bank as a) convenience and b) use a mon in whatever game when you feel like it. With both rendered moot by Dexit and no possibility to go Bank-Jail-back to Bank, no serious player will risk uploading everything without playing. And that's a kick in the mouth, honestly.
3. Accessibility
Ah, so wonderful to add manure to a pile of shit.
Phone access to trade would not be a problem but it is when it's the only way to trade. In the best case scenario possible, I'm at the airport, wired on wi-fi, waiting for an intercontinental connection flight for the next 4 hours. I have my 3DS, my switch and my phone ready, and I want a newly patched-in Volcarona. Steps: a) grab phone to look GTS up if there's anything available. b) Mon required isn't in my Jail yet, so either grab switch to upload it or grab 3DS to put it into bank, then grab Switch to put it in home c) wait! Get back on phone to do the trade, hoping the coveted Larvesta is still there.
I get the convenience of trading while having a walk, but without all of your data connected (and, especially, connectible at a touch, with either Switch or phone), the convenience is out. And, mind you, the above was the dream scenario. What if I had forgotten anything back home?

Minor professional rant: don't even get me started on how this is a terrible idea from a database management standpoint. I saw some posts ago that the detachment was done due to some legal restriction and privacy concerning kids. While it may be true, it opens a further snake nest for GF over potential cross-database data access (your phone mails, accounts, apps, and so on on your phone together with your nintendo subscription, history, etc...). Regulation on that is particularly stingy, especially here in Europe following GDPR regulation - but hey I guess they will have good lawyers in case something goes awry.

TL; DR:
What I get from this is that they're trying to mold Go, canon and non-canon games into one thing, as well as phone access and consolle services, but instead of continuing with the good things they have and had done, and planning and implementing a final solution once it's ready and feasible, they're assembling a puzzle on the go, picking some pieces together, then apart, then try to fit pieces where they should not be placed and see how that goes. Then turn the table upside down just for giggles to then check if no piece has been lost.

And, in the mean time, ask for some money to the players who are most attached to your franchise because why not. It's worth puking over how I've been treated. When I will finally get SwSh, if I ever get it, I'll make sure it's an used copy to be sure to not give GF even a cent.
 
So a lot of people here are wondering why the GTS isnt the base game butnon this mobile app, to which I ask: why? GTS in the games would always be limited to not having the entire dex to trade from anyway, whoch would always be inferior to a universal model in HOME. It also avoids the sticky issue of future service shutdowns like the 5th gen and lower games losing wifi entirely.

As for the national dex....i hope most of you guys realize they tend to copy paste d3x entries if said pokemon didnt appear in thenregion, right? Its unlikely you would have noticed any changes.

Why are people acting like $16 a year is criminal when many subscription services are around the same but monthly? Why are people downplaying stuff like wonder boxes and room trades? I just dont get it....

EDIT: realized i made a pretty bad typo and fixed it
 
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So a lot of people here are wondering why the GTS isnt the base game butnon this mobile app, to which I ask: why? GTS in the games would always be limited to not having the entire dex to trade from anyway, whoch would always be inferior to a universal model in HOME. It also avoids the sticky issue of future service shutdowns like the 5th gen and lower games losing wifi entirely.

As for the national sex....i hope most of you guys realize they tend to copy paste d3x entries if said pokemon didnt appear in thenregion, right? Its unlikely you would have noticed any changes.

Why are people acting like $16 a year is criminal when many sunscription services are around the same but monthly? Why arenpeople downplaying stuff like wonder boxes and room trades? I just dont get it....
A limited GTS would be fine, though. Theres still 400 pokemon to trade. About 600 after DLC. I also don't think avoiding online services going down is a good excuse either, or even really a benefit. At the very least theres no guarantee Home itself isnt replaced.
 
It also avoids the sticky issue of future service shutdowns like the 5th gen and lower games losing wifi entirely.

Which was something completely outside of Nintendo's control. Not the case this time.

If there's a complaint about "mobile-only GTS" that I can agree with, it's that you have to move your Pokémon away from Sword and Shield to be able to trade them through that feature, adding some unnecessary steps.

(They could sort of avoid that with some sort of sync feature, but that might make cloning so easy they won't want to add that)
 
I do have a (non complottist, non GF-hating, etc) theory on why the GTS is only on the mobile version of Home and not on Switch nor the actual games.

It made sense to begin with to have GTS directly in Home as that's essentially a way to implement it once and have it there for every Switch game coming later without requiring any development other just patching pokemon in future, that's a guaranteed.


The reason for it limited to the Phone version, I do believe it has to do with GF being obsessed with kid safety.

Going back to my "friendly reminder this game is marketing almost solely at kids and is succeeding at it, so they don't care of the 0.1% internettian rants", keeping this in mind, I believe they simply want to make sure that actual kids can't end up in trades with complete strangers without any sort of control.
Normally, a underage kid won't have its own phone so his parents or older siblings should make sure they aren't getting scammed on the internet, and older kids + adults have their own phones so this doesn't affect them much.

I do agree though that the big issue of GTS being "home only" means you quite certainly can't do trade evos with it, but that also goes back to GameFreak's policy of encouraging kids to go out and socialize with each other (aka, use the actual in-game trade).



Unrelated, i'd add that as far as I know, the "go out and socialize with each other" is a trend in Japan due to the increasing amount of young people affected by depression and shut-in syndromes, and I assume it is also why TPCI and/or GF insist with trying to make Go and other Pokemon games requiring to literally go out.
If that's the case, I support this decision.
 
I think the I ly reason trading is Mobilr only is because it would require NSO on switch in all likelihood.

Also they idea its so children wont trade with strangers without supervision is....questionable at best when SWSH lets you:
  1. Wonder trade with strangers
  2. Battle with strangers and get their info
  3. Join strangers for raids
  4. Have strangers join YOU for raids
  5. Just straight up trade with strangers doing a public call for trades rather than a private room
GTS is no more stranger danger than features already in the game.
 
So a lot of people here are wondering why the GTS isnt the base game butnon this mobile app, to which I ask: why? GTS in the games would always be limited to not having the entire dex to trade from anyway, whoch would always be inferior to a universal model in HOME. It also avoids the sticky issue of future service shutdowns like the 5th gen and lower games losing wifi entirely.

As for the national sex....i hope most of you guys realize they tend to copy paste d3x entries if said pokemon didnt appear in thenregion, right? Its unlikely you would have noticed any changes.

Why are people acting like $16 a year is criminal when many sunscription services are around the same but monthly? Why arenpeople downplaying stuff like wonder boxes and room trades? I just dont get it....
While you can trade every Pokémon on Home's GTS, what I would ask is that if you can't transfer that Pokémon to SwSh... then... why do you want to do that? Like, I guess maybe someone trying to complete their living dex...? Outside of that then there's basically no point to GTSing Home-exclusive Pokémon. If you're using the GTS on Home, it's more than likely you're doing it to get a Pokémon that you would transfer to SwSh.

I would also pose the question: why not both? Why not have both a GTS in SwSh and a GTS in Home, especially since they seem to be doing that with trading and wonder trading? This is hardly a zero-sum game.

People are downplaying stuff like wonder boxes and room trades because we already have surprise trade in SwSh and even if Home has more Pokémon, as I said, it's still overall a bit pointless if you can't then transfer that Pokémon to SwSh. And room trades are nice, but really just a decent option that probably should have been in the game.

As for subscription fees... well, you are right that other companies are much further down this rabbithole and see fit to do stuff like 100$ subscription fees for games you've already paid for. But Game Freak isn't those companies; saying "other things are worse" does not suddenly make something good; and said larger subscription fees elsewhere is why a hefty price increase like this sets a fairly worrying precedent.
Comparing this fee to something most payers of it will be familiar: Nintendo Switch Online. That already gets a lot of criticism, but frankly; at least with that you get 60+ classic games and other stuff like Tetris and the occasional discount. For about the same price a year, Home gives me... storage space, and extra versions of trading that should have been in the game to begin with. I'm very far from impressed. And, talking of NSO; that's kind of another aspect to this. One of these subscriptions alone might have been fine, but together they come to £35 a year you're paying for Pokémon when just last year it was £5 for Bank.

I simply cannot look at what's being offered here and come to the conclusion that it's good value for money, or that what's being offered is even vaguely interesting. It's just something that collectors and breeders like me will have to shell out an extra £15 for to do what we were doing for £5 last year. That's the one thing I want to get across: even if you can downplay all the negatives here, nothing is exciting about this. No-one but people already down this rabbithole are going to look at this and think "huh, that's interesting, I'll give it a shot", like they might for getting Tetris 99 or Mario 3 or F-Zero on NSO. It's not even like DLC; where I'm excited to see Banjo-Kazooie in Smash or more areas to explore and Pokémon to find in SwSh and think "yeah that's sick, that's fun; I'll get that!"
It's just an extra cost for some features that were part of the base game in Diamond and Pearl and Black and White, and something that doesn't stand on its own. It's a service I buy because it's necessary to do something I want to do in SwSh.
 
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As for subscription fees... well, you are right that other companies are much further down this rabbithole and see fit to do stuff like 100$ subscription fees for games you've already paid for. But Game Freak isn't those companies; saying "other things are worse" does not suddenly make something good; and said larger subscription fees elsewhere is why a hefty price increase like this sets a fairly worrying precedent.
While GameFreaks isn't "such company" yet, it's marketing.

When something works on market, other companies will inevitably adapt it because they make games for money and not for charity.

One can criticize the ethic, but business is business, and frankly the thing we should be grateful is that NSO is still extremely cheap compared to the same service from other competitor, and Home got kept with a free + premium rather than "premium only" service.
Glass half full, as I said. Could *definitely* have been worse.

Still business-perspective like, it's easy to see why they want to force people to pay in order to use Bank compatibility: in a way or another, Bank is a service for no-longer-supported titles & platforms, that they would rather discontinue. Since they can't (for now at least), they try to at least make money off it rather than having to maintain a service that's very seldom used and yet requires to maintain servers and pay bills.
I can't blame them for the decision. Sucks for us, definitely, but it is a valid decision.
 
While GameFreaks isn't "such company" yet, it's marketing.

When something works on market, other companies will inevitably adapt it because they make games for money and not for charity.

One can criticize the ethic, but business is business, and frankly the thing we should be grateful is that NSO is still extremely cheap compared to the same service from other competitor, and Home got kept with a free + premium rather than "premium only" service.
Glass half full, as I said. Could *definitely* have been worse.

Still business-perspective like, it's easy to see why they want to force people to pay in order to use Bank compatibility: in a way or another, Bank is a service for no-longer-supported titles & platforms, that they would rather discontinue. Since they can't (for now at least), they try to at least make money off it rather than having to maintain a service that's very seldom used and yet requires to maintain servers and pay bills.
I can't blame them for the decision. Sucks for us, definitely, but it is a valid decision.
I know it makes sense from a business perspective. I know that they saw something working on the market, and decided to use it themselves. Everything I said still stands.

I'm not asking "why did they do this", I'm saying "it's rubbish that they did this", and in this particular instance, "here's why I'm not excited for the features you laid out and why it's not a good deal".
 

oh my

this is especially impressive considering the switch has a relatively smaller install base compared to say the OG DS or even 3DS, unless there's a record-breaking sales crash it seems on track to surpass Diamond and Pearl
Yeah, SwSh has done impressively well. I believe it's surpassed how well SM and XY did in the same time?

Either way, due to DLC essentially extending its hype period (for lack of a better term), I think it's gonna be on track to be the best-selling Pokémon game outside of Gen 1.
 
this is especially impressive considering the switch has a relatively smaller install base compared to say the OG DS or even 3DS, unless there's a record-breaking sales crash it seems on track to surpass Diamond and Pearl
I think that people undervalue the accessibility of the Switch offering very easy both digital and phisical sales, combined with Switch internet being WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY faster than the DS ones.

Combine this with the existance of easier online payment services like Paypal and bigger diffusion of prepaid credit cards, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the difference in sales between pre Switch and Switch games is due to significantly higher amount of digital versions sold.
 
There's a free mode on Home, unlike Bank, which has an important implication: accounts won't be deleted when your payment lapses. It's entirely possible that your mons will be inaccessible but nonetheless stay in Home until you resubscribe. That, combined with the option to buy a one month subscription, would *significantly* mitigate the impact of Home being expensive, because you'd only need to pay for times you were actively accessing its storage. It's not hard to imagine that accounts that have previously paid for it might be prioritised over ones which haven't if a deletion does need to occur.

They could delete all but one box, of course, but I wouldn't assume that to be the case just yet. Nintendo can be greedy, but they might well realise that making people pay to maintain storage of things you can't withdraw from that storage is scummy.
 
Something I've noticed is that it seems like the first games released each console generation are always the ones that sell the fastest in the first few months of their release compared to later titles. Diamond and Pearl sold faster than Black and White, X and Y more than Sun and Moon, etc.
 
Something I've noticed is that it seems like the first games released each console generation are always the ones that sell the fastest in the first few months of their release compared to later titles. Diamond and Pearl sold faster than Black and White, X and Y more than Sun and Moon, etc.
That's unsurprising, as they get the extra hype/interest of "The first Pokemon game on X" so people buy them to see how they look like.
 
I think relative to the same period, SM sold more than XY, but XY sold overall more because it was on the market longer and then USUM cut the legs off in a way that ORAS didnt for...obvious reasons.
My timeline might be off, but I think thats how it shakes out.

Theres a not insignificant chance SWSH reaches or surpasses GSC lifetime sales though which is the REALLY crazy thing if it happens
 
which is the REALLY crazy thing if it happens
Is it though?
As I said, the playerbase is mostly composed of young (sometimes, extremely young) people, who enjoy the features SwSh provides.
Pokemon Camp (600 pokemon died for this btw) is amazing for kids, I know a few who love it.
The graphic of SwSh are very shiny and memorable, Dynamaxing is pretty fun to watch and honestly I doubt anyone who is younger than 20 (and i'd dare to say 30 looking at recent news /sighs) remotely cares that the the story isn't as deep as Platinum or BW because even if it was they wouldn't have understood the depth anyway.
And even then, the battle with Eternatus is really memorable, brings onward the power of friendship, the final Leon battle is even more memorable, and everything before it doesn't matter anyway.
The OST of the game, even though not perfect in some parts, is also amazing, and the one of the event in the spoiler is probably my favourite of the game.

Combine this with accessibility (what I wrote in my previous post), and the fact that DLCs tecnically act as second versions but will *still* cause more people to buy SwSh to begin with, it doesn't surprise me *at all* should the sales eventually hit the highest selling games to date.
 
It is surprising/crazy because GSC was the perfect storm that has reigned at firm #2 for 20 years
I mean to be clear you could say SM probably couldve gotten close. It also had a gopd storm going. Great word of mouth, distinct aesthetic, solid marketing cycle, and the Go boost.
I still wouldve called it crazy just because damn, beating that 18 year record. Even if makes sense, its still shocking
 
It is surprising/crazy because GSC was the perfect storm that has reigned at firm #2 for 20 years
I mean to be clear you could say SM probably couldve gotten close. It also had a gopd storm going. Great word of mouth, distinct aesthetic, solid marketing cycle, and the Go boost.
I still wouldve called it crazy just because damn, beating that 18 year record. Even if makes sense, its still shocking
I'll call myself wrong as I misunderstood what you meant with "crazy".
I assumed you meant "it's nowhere as good so how does it sell as well".

Yes, on the perspective of beating a 18 year old game (which had the chance to sell for a insane amount of time) within potentially a year or two, that'd be a massive feat.
(A feat that honestly I would attribute more to the accessibility and global fame than anything else, to be honest)
 
"bad costumer practices are allright because other people does them as well; game sold a lot so the franchise will not be hurt ever"

Star Wars Battlefront II also sold a lot yet look at how things ended


I'm just gonna quote Jeff Gerstmann, game journalist of 20+ years of experience, also not a Pokemon fan so he has no dog in this race
Jeff Gerstmann said:
How big would the data for 6,000 pokemon be in terms of server storage and server costs, it's not 16 dollars worth of fucking money, it's just, it just feels ridiculous


but seriously, those Ok with the way Gamefreak's doing stuff, try Fallout 76, it's a game made for people just like you
 
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(as if doing the bare minimum is acceptable: unless disaster strikes, they're in for a rude awakening when TemTem hits, mark my words)

Hey, Yokai Watch, how did being the next Pokemon killer work out for ya?... Yokai Watch? Yokai Watch, hello...


... oh.

While GameFreaks isn't "such company" yet, it's marketing.

When something works on market, other companies will inevitably adapt it because they make games for money and not for charity.

One can criticize the ethic, but business is business, and frankly the thing we should be grateful is that NSO is still extremely cheap compared to the same service from other competitor, and Home got kept with a free + premium rather than "premium only" service.
Glass half full, as I said. Could *definitely* have been worse.

Still business-perspective like, it's easy to see why they want to force people to pay in order to use Bank compatibility: in a way or another, Bank is a service for no-longer-supported titles & platforms, that they would rather discontinue. Since they can't (for now at least), they try to at least make money off it rather than having to maintain a service that's very seldom used and yet requires to maintain servers and pay bills.
I can't blame them for the decision. Sucks for us, definitely, but it is a valid decision.

While I know there's many who are saying they shouldn't be charging that much (and I'll accept I was, and a bit still am, part of that group), also note no one would be saying that if they made the service feel like it's worth it. Would it have broke the bank for them to port the Dream World (and note I'm using the Dream World as it's the easiest example I can think of, while I liked the Dream World it wasn't the most impressive thing but it was an online feature which had a lot of value to it... and it was FREE)? If you're going to charge us 16 bucks a year, give us something that's worth 16 bucks. Because, guess what, if you did that not only would there be way less criticism but also you wouldn't have to hold everyone's older Pokemon hostage.


oh my

this is especially impressive considering the switch has a relatively smaller install base compared to say the OG DS or even 3DS, unless there's a record-breaking sales crash it seems on track to surpass Diamond and Pearl

Question, do they count the combination package as two separate games? Cause I think a lot of people might have gotten that deal this time around and if you count that as one sell I think that number might be lower.
 
Hey, Yokai Watch, how did being the next Pokemon killer work out for ya?... Yokai Watch? Yokai Watch, hello...



... oh.



While I know there's many who are saying they shouldn't be charging that much (and I'll accept I was, and a bit still am, part of that group), also note no one would be saying that if they made the service feel like it's worth it. Would it have broke the bank for them to port the Dream World (and note I'm using the Dream World as it's the easiest example I can think of, while I liked the Dream World it wasn't the most impressive thing but it was an online feature which had a lot of value to it... and it was FREE)? If you're going to charge us 16 bucks a year, give us something that's worth 16 bucks. Because, guess what, if you did that not only would there be way less criticism but also you wouldn't have to hold everyone's older Pokemon hostage.



Question, do they count the combination package as two separate games? Cause I think a lot of people might have gotten that deal this time around and if you count that as one sell I think that number might be lower.
They probably do count it because there's...no reason not to count it as 2 games? It's literally selling you two games. They produced & moved 2 units.
 
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