I'd say 8 slots imo, I'd take away 2nd oras and ADV. I see basically no interest in ADV and idk if most regions have 2 good oras players?? I doubt?? anyway maybe take away dpp for 2v2 doubles even though i love dpp so im a bit biased in its direction.
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World Cup of 1v1 IV - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Official Glyx
- Start date
- Status
Free 2v2
To be entirely honest I feel like the discussion of 8 slots vs 10 slots depends hugely upon the decision between 6 or 8 teams, to drop to 48 starting players with a related drop in opportunities for substitutions to get game time is far too restrictive on the player pool for mine. If the plan is to go ahead with 6 teams for the sake of ensuring player counts for different regions, I don't think there is an option to not go with 10 players.
Just for a bit of reference of what 48 players looks like: in PL so far, 50 people are even or better so imagine anyone who didn't sign up to PL or who went negative not included in WC, that looks like cutting players like Synon, Kaif, Nalei, TSC, Rosa let alone giving opportunities for newer players to have a go and enjoy what I found to be an incredible experience.
Put quite simply limiting WC to just 48 players is far too restrictive, denies opportunities to grow the player base and ultimately I feel would lead to a much less enjoyable WC.
That to my mind leaves two questions worth discussing:
Is it possible to make eight competitive World Cup teams from different regions around the world?
Thats a question which we can't really answer without knowing planned player signups (census info results). To be entirely honest, I think if it does look possible to run with eight teams, (i.e. Not quite all of Asia leaves and LRXC comes to carry US central) I'd personally consider that a better outcome, I love the close knit feel of being with my cone lads. But again this is something that really just comes down to the numbers and spreads.
What slots should be included in World Cup?
If we see eight slots, I'd say the setup in PL is probably the best option.
For 10:
4 SWSH slots seems good, maintains the same number of SWSH players we're currently seeing in PL and I think its important to maintain a fairly high number of accessible slots for a tour format where you are restricted in what players you use.
2 SM slots, SM is still a really recent tier and has a much larger player count than the other old gens
1 ORAS slot, two oras slots is a joke, there just aren't enough oras mains to justify it
1 BW slot
1 DPP slot, I know I'm biased but I'd definitely argue DPP has seen more competition in PL than BW/ORAS with more than enough of a dedicated playerbase to support a slot.
That leaves one variable slot for most realistically a third SM slot, or an ADV/2v2 slot. Yuck at more SM so ADV/2v2.
I think its fair to say that 2v2 has a larger playerbase than ADV, but the one thing going for ADV is that it is still 1v1, so in theory players of other gens can come together in support :D lol.
Both ADV and 2v2 seem imperfect solutions to a second dpp slot sized hole, ultimately I'd probably lean towards 2v2 because ADV looks to only cater to a very small dedicated playerbase, and to date I haven't seen enough support for it from players that are at all likely to play it. E
TL;DR: Despite the potential evident in reducing team numbers for the sake of better balancing, I think the best way to bring about the most enjoyable experience from this upcoming World Cup is to maintain the format of eight teams and eight players to a team with the same formats we've seen in PL.
I miss ONE tour...
Just for a bit of reference of what 48 players looks like: in PL so far, 50 people are even or better so imagine anyone who didn't sign up to PL or who went negative not included in WC, that looks like cutting players like Synon, Kaif, Nalei, TSC, Rosa let alone giving opportunities for newer players to have a go and enjoy what I found to be an incredible experience.
Put quite simply limiting WC to just 48 players is far too restrictive, denies opportunities to grow the player base and ultimately I feel would lead to a much less enjoyable WC.
That to my mind leaves two questions worth discussing:
Is it possible to make eight competitive World Cup teams from different regions around the world?
Thats a question which we can't really answer without knowing planned player signups (census info results). To be entirely honest, I think if it does look possible to run with eight teams, (i.e. Not quite all of Asia leaves and LRXC comes to carry US central) I'd personally consider that a better outcome, I love the close knit feel of being with my cone lads. But again this is something that really just comes down to the numbers and spreads.
What slots should be included in World Cup?
If we see eight slots, I'd say the setup in PL is probably the best option.
For 10:
4 SWSH slots seems good, maintains the same number of SWSH players we're currently seeing in PL and I think its important to maintain a fairly high number of accessible slots for a tour format where you are restricted in what players you use.
2 SM slots, SM is still a really recent tier and has a much larger player count than the other old gens
1 ORAS slot, two oras slots is a joke, there just aren't enough oras mains to justify it
1 BW slot
1 DPP slot, I know I'm biased but I'd definitely argue DPP has seen more competition in PL than BW/ORAS with more than enough of a dedicated playerbase to support a slot.
That leaves one variable slot for most realistically a third SM slot, or an ADV/2v2 slot. Yuck at more SM so ADV/2v2.
I think its fair to say that 2v2 has a larger playerbase than ADV, but the one thing going for ADV is that it is still 1v1, so in theory players of other gens can come together in support :D lol.
Both ADV and 2v2 seem imperfect solutions to a second dpp slot sized hole, ultimately I'd probably lean towards 2v2 because ADV looks to only cater to a very small dedicated playerbase, and to date I haven't seen enough support for it from players that are at all likely to play it. E
TL;DR: Despite the potential evident in reducing team numbers for the sake of better balancing, I think the best way to bring about the most enjoyable experience from this upcoming World Cup is to maintain the format of eight teams and eight players to a team with the same formats we've seen in PL.
I miss ONE tour...
Heres a synopsis on pretty much what has been contested on the grounds of slots and teams. None of this is really guaranteed but all of this has been thrown around to some degree of seriousness by people in Discord and the 1v1 room.
Slots
Teams
6:
10: Really hasn't been thrown around without someone complaining about how bad Asia is.
Slots
3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP
3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 of ADV / 2v2
4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW
3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 of ADV / 2v2
4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW
4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 of ADV / 2v2
3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 ADV, 1 2v2
4 SS, 3 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP
5 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP
3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 ADV, 1 2v2
4 SS, 3 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP
5 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP
Keep in mind that these are listed in order of general community opinion, i.e. Significantly more people want 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP, 1 of ADV / 2v2 for 10 slots in comparison to 5 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP. These are all generally considered options that aren't just outrageous memes at that point (though one could say 5 ss is a meme). There's also the case/possibility of 2v2 just getting completely excluded without community input/voting (Remember DPP vs 2v2 last WC) since.. well, you know.
Teams
6:
USW
USC + Cone
USE
Frita
Benelux Germany + Asia
Spain UK + East Europe (-Germany)
USC + Cone
USE
Frita
Benelux Germany + Asia
Spain UK + East Europe (-Germany)
USW
USC + Cone
USE
Frita
Benelux Germany + UK
Asia + East Europe
USC + Cone
USE
Frita
Benelux Germany + UK
Asia + East Europe
10: Really hasn't been thrown around without someone complaining about how bad Asia is.
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Pretty sure you mean Asia + East Europe on the last one. Also, I'm thinking that splitting Cone into USW + Oceania (Team Pacific) and USC + Canada isn't a terrible idea. USC + Cone is really strong, and West isn't looking great compared to the really powerful Europe teams.
edit : people ask me about wcup stuff a lot so i figured ill just post my current thoughts. atm I really like these region splits
USW + Oceania
USC + Canada + Latin America
USE
Frita + Africa
Benelux Germany + Asia
Spain UK + East Europe (-Germany)
USC + Canada + Latin America
USE
Frita + Africa
Benelux Germany + Asia
Spain UK + East Europe (-Germany)
Last edited:
Last edited:
Similar to last year, Africa will be added to another region, probably Frita this year.
The host of the tournament puts up Captain Signups and people sign up for whatever region they qualify for.
Here's last year's thread, for reference https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/world-cup-of-1v1-iii-captain-signups.3652091/
After much deliberation with my 1v1 peers, we have come to a conclusion for the optimal slot choices.
qc'd by stableprince569
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
SS
no 2v2 slot I didn't agree to this
Considering this threads been a bit dead I'm just going to put out some topics of interest + my thoughts on stuff that's been discussed.
I'm pretty sure that we've gotten to the point where 6 teams are 10 slots and 8 is 8 unless anyone disagrees. I really don't see 8 x 10 working, considering the fact that Asia's kinda dying. In the case of 8 slots, I feel the only two viable slot choices are just taking the PL slots or removing an SM for a 4th SS slot. I do much prefer 10 for obvious reasons, but 8 is the previous norm. On the topic of formats, removing DPP is not an option imo, as it's been developed in tours and has a base of people who already main and develop it. 2v2 and ADV should not even be considered for 8 also, only 10.
Also, if 6 teams, how would playoffs work? Top 4 or Top 3? I think Top 4 would be better from a matchup standpoint, but 3 sticks with the tradition of having top cut in playoffs.
As always, thanks for reading, have a nice day and free the census results so we can discuss regions better.
I'm pretty sure that we've gotten to the point where 6 teams are 10 slots and 8 is 8 unless anyone disagrees. I really don't see 8 x 10 working, considering the fact that Asia's kinda dying. In the case of 8 slots, I feel the only two viable slot choices are just taking the PL slots or removing an SM for a 4th SS slot. I do much prefer 10 for obvious reasons, but 8 is the previous norm. On the topic of formats, removing DPP is not an option imo, as it's been developed in tours and has a base of people who already main and develop it. 2v2 and ADV should not even be considered for 8 also, only 10.
Also, if 6 teams, how would playoffs work? Top 4 or Top 3? I think Top 4 would be better from a matchup standpoint, but 3 sticks with the tradition of having top cut in playoffs.
As always, thanks for reading, have a nice day and free the census results so we can discuss regions better.
2v2 Doubles should very much be considered for 8, as the reasons I posted earlier apply to 8 slots. Even 4 SS could be reduced, especially considering the unpopularity of SS.
Please stop rumple. You are not helping 2v2’s case by constantly begging for it to be in wc.
How is it constant begging or even begging at all if I replied to the meta's leader saying that it shouldn't even be considered, when the points I had previously brought up still provide a base for consideration?
:I
I’d love having 2v2 in eight, but one has to think logically; Why would you put 2v2 Doubles over a Second SM slot that is more popular than ever this gen, or a DPP slot that's already tournament-tested and has a great set of people who main the tier? At least in 10 those things are fulfilled and adding something like a 5th SS, 3rd SM, or 2nd ORAS is not that well-liked, allowing 2v2 the opportunity to develop.
Tiers
SS Bo7
SS
SS
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
Teams
US East
US Central
US West
UKNL + Spain
East EU
France + Italy
CONE
Asia (inb4 "asia doesn't have players!!!!! they're unviable!!!!!!! everyone is quitting!!!!!!!" lol sure)
Or some other sort of Europe split that allows Asia players to be paired with another team so they don't cry. There's realistically no reason to be so attached to last year's split and avoid redrawing borders.
SS Bo7
SS
SS
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
Teams
US East
US Central
US West
UKNL + Spain
East EU
France + Italy
CONE
Asia (inb4 "asia doesn't have players!!!!! they're unviable!!!!!!! everyone is quitting!!!!!!!" lol sure)
Or some other sort of Europe split that allows Asia players to be paired with another team so they don't cry. There's realistically no reason to be so attached to last year's split and avoid redrawing borders.
Tiers
SS Bo7
SS
SS
SS
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
2v2
Teams
US East
US Central + Canada
US West + OCE
UKNL
France + Italy
East EU + Asia
SS Bo7
SS
SS
SS
SM
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
2v2
Teams
US East
US Central + Canada
US West + OCE
UKNL
France + Italy
East EU + Asia
While you might have your preferences in regards to ADV > 2v2 or wanting less SS slots for more ORAS slots (God knows why, these slots are so hard to fill even when there's only one of them) or more SM slots (I'd definitely rather focus on current gen than have 3 SM slots lmfao) you can't deny these are the most likely scenarios, with 8x8 being preferable to avoid dumb playoffs or having to resort to weeks.
I believe I'm not saying anything revolutionary here but since it's been a bunch of time and the Census is most likely pretty much compiled, I'd like to start discussion on team border distribution.
France and Italy division
As Frita captain, I would love for the two countries to be able to play in the same team once more, especially with how strong our roster appears to be, but for the sake of playing a healthy and somewhat balanced WC I want all options to be taken into consideration.
SS Bo7: DenisTheMenace
SS: Tom842
SS: umbreon098
SM: Closexy
SM: AltCauseImInsecure
ORAS:
BW: stableprince569
DPP:
+ any other sign-up I am not aware of
The only two tiers that would be lacking are ORAS and DPP, and I am not 100% positive on every slot and whether they would sign up, but pairing Italy up with individual countries or another small region that could complete the missing slots could make for a good, viable wc team.
SS: Tom842
SS: umbreon098
SM: Closexy
SM: AltCauseImInsecure
ORAS:
BW: stableprince569
DPP:
+ any other sign-up I am not aware of
The only two tiers that would be lacking are ORAS and DPP, and I am not 100% positive on every slot and whether they would sign up, but pairing Italy up with individual countries or another small region that could complete the missing slots could make for a good, viable wc team.
SS Bo7: XSTATIC COLD
SS: Winkata
SS:
SM: LaBalladeDesCieux
SM: Lancer
ORAS: toadandhishaxx
BW:
DPP: TogliBabineBoeuf
Less sure on the state of certain players (and I believe Lancer might actually BW over SM), this team would only be missing a dedicated BW/SM slot and a 3rd SS, which would be the easiest slots to find players for (and ofc some subs as well but I believe those should not be hard to come around). Definitely a strong, competitive team.
SS: Winkata
SS:
SM: LaBalladeDesCieux
SM: Lancer
ORAS: toadandhishaxx
BW:
DPP: TogliBabineBoeuf
Less sure on the state of certain players (and I believe Lancer might actually BW over SM), this team would only be missing a dedicated BW/SM slot and a 3rd SS, which would be the easiest slots to find players for (and ofc some subs as well but I believe those should not be hard to come around). Definitely a strong, competitive team.
While I personally would rather keep the countries together because of personal bias, this opens up the doors for an effective 4-way europe split, without having any region nerfed to the ground.
If split, Italy could very much be paired with countries like Serbia or Romania, and France could be paired up with UK, leaving Germany, NL, Austria, the rest of Europe and Asia to be split into 2 teams.
As I see it, the current state of things indicates that 2v2 will be added as a slot if 10 slots were to be adapted and it would not if we were to play with 8 slots.
The reasoning behind this is that every single tier in the 8 slots lineup already has a dedicated playerbase that might not even sign up if that tier wasn't in the line-up. It is pretty much impossible to remove any single tier without upsetting an amount of players that is way higher than the ones that would be pleased by such a change.
Change is good and refreshing but it can only be adopted when the conditions are right enough for the change to be considered pleasant.
(also there's a bunch of regions who might struggle to find a 2v2 player if we're playing with 8 teams but that's besides the point)
- The SM point: Because there already is 2 SM slots, and if 2v2 would be included there would be more variety.
- The DPP being tournament tested point: 2v2 Doubles is also tournament tested, while being more popular.
- The mains not signing up point: I understand that the tour would benefit from more sign-ups, but there are more important points than just wanting players. Most 2v2 players also play 1v1, because they got introduced to 2v2 through 1v1. Would it be better for the tour if those players only played 2v2? I don't think so, since they provide more for the team. Also, only ADV, DPP, and BW would be entirely excluded from the line-up if 1 of them got replaced, as the others have more than 1 slot.
- The regions maybe struggling to have 2v2 players point: 2v2 Doubles has enough resources to mitigate that if it happens, in addition to the availability of joining the constant tournaments being held in the 2v2 chatroom on PS! for practice.
2v2 over 2nd SM or DPP is never going to be a thing, nobody wants that except a select number of people and there's literally no other tier that could be replaced so get that out of your mind. Arguing about this is futile and only serves for people to not want the tier in the tournament further, so please refrain.
I hope 2v2 gets to be in WC just don't argue about it and try to force it into it in such an aggressive way, it's counterproductive and a bad look.
I hope 2v2 gets to be in WC just don't argue about it and try to force it into it in such an aggressive way, it's counterproductive and a bad look.
Because by being doubles it's different enough to arguably provide more variety than another 1v1 slot could.
Fair enough, though what I was talking about was about 2v2 Doubles being more established, with tours on PS! since 2015, multiple OM of the month ladders, and significantly more ladder plays than both DPP and ADV the times they had a ladder.
Is there some sort of proof that nobody good will sign up for the tier that I'm missing?
That's not what I meant at all. What I was saying is that they provide more for the team because they play 1v1 in addition to 2v2, rather than only playing 2v2 (which was my interpretation of the use of "main" and the not signing up point).so they provide more for the team if they don't main 2v2..? why just not even have 2v2 then
As opposed to how DPP or ADV has players? Is there some non-public setting where people have played DPP or ADV to the extent that there are enough players so that teams wouldn't struggle to have players that I'm missing?
Well, my take on it is that more variety is better, and "literally no other tier that could be replaced" is your stance on the subject, I'm making points for why they could.
Again, I was just responding to people with counterpoints, I thought this was a discussion thread?
me and the boys arguing 2v2 into wc while being irrelevant for 2 years
idk what you mean by non public setting but yes DPP would not have any issue with players and will infact have a surplus of players being in the tours pool for over 2 years now and multiple sm / cg people picking it up due to classic with the usual bunch of old gens players
nobody cares about variety if it's shit to watch, DPP has been tournament tested and liked for a lot more than 2v2, while being more popular, break the fake illusion that 2v2 is more popular than dpp (lol). Who the fuck knows why it matters that the 2v2 and 1v1 playerbase correlate in the playerbase but the fact that you're trying to remove DPP / BW from the pool is pretty self explanatory of how involved you are in the community.For the last point, you want to force people into picking up 2v2 because you "have" resources and roomtours with like 5 people max are spammed in the subroom????
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