Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v4 (check out posts #483 and 484 for DLC1 info!)

[ZacBouh]

Guys, I think I just found a reliable way to trap Ferrothorn with Magnezone! I was desperately trying to find something that could do the trick in Magnezone's moveset but was unable to find anything better than iron defense + body press or choice specs signal beam. But to my dismay, none of those are reliable (body press + iron defense might work against a specially defensive variant but between opposing body press, leech seed, protect, rocky helmet you would at best take a ton of damage in the process).

However, I found one move which has the potential to put Magnezone back in the spotlight and that is NATURAL GIFT. For those of you who have never heard of it, it is a one-time use physical non-contact move whose type and base power depends on the berry the user holds. This means that with a Cheri Berry, Magnezone is able to use an 80 base power fire type move.

Now you might be thinking that Magnezone's pitiful 70 base attack is not enough to pull this off, but here's the catch: Magnezone can learn Screech, which not only gives Ferrothorn -2 in defense but also in attack since body press's power is based on the defense of the user, and his other moves don't do much to Magnezone anyway, except for Bulldoze but I'll come back to that later. Here is a proof of concept on a fully Defensive Ferrothorn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1131796881

I'll go over what the Ferro player can do to counteract this tech and why it is unreliable:
- Leech Seed / Protect stall: while Protect technically makes using Natural Gift a 50/50, the Ferrothorn player is still at a massive disadvantage since Magnezone can use substitute or even magic coat to block leech seed, and as soon as the Ferrothorn protects he only has a 50% chance to survive, and Magnezone can still use Recycle or Signal Beam after that.
- Knock Off: admittedly annoying, but it takes two to three hits to break Magnezone's sub, who can still Recycle or use Signal Beam to win the 1V1. Additionally, it is pretty easy to scout for beforehand.
- Bulldoze: terrible move in general and does not even 2HKO Magnezone most of the time. You could even run Iron Defense if you are really scared of it.
- Thunder Wave to activate the berry: does not work on electric types but nice attempt
- Shed Shell / Occa Berry: well Ferrothorn could run that in previous gens and it did not prevent Magnezone from being OU

For the set, you would always run screech, and natural gift, and max attack. The rest of the spread is a tradeoff between being able to tank body presses better or to outspeed Corviknight. Sub + Recycle would be the most reliable set, but you could also run Signal Beam (relevant since either Natural Gift or this move will do enough damage to win depending on the Ferrothorn spread), Wild Charge for Skarmory and the rare Corviknight without u-turn (although I think you can beat them without it in many cases), or any other utility move such as screens, status or Volt Switch.

Obviously this set has downsides, namely the fact that it is pretty much dead weight if the opponent does not run Ferrothorn or Skarmory. It might also lose to Ferrothorn in some scenarios. But I think it could really empower teams that need Ferrothorn gone to shine. This is my first contribution after years of lurking, so I really hope it can positively impact the meta.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

View attachment 254270

Guys, I think I just found a reliable way to trap Ferrothorn with Magnezone! I was desperately trying to find something that could do the trick in Magnezone's moveset but was unable to find anything better than iron defense + body press or choice specs signal beam. But to my dismay, none of those are reliable (body press + iron defense might work against a specially defensive variant but between opposing body press, leech seed, protect, rocky helmet you would at best take a ton of damage in the process).

However, I found one move which has the potential to put Magnezone back in the spotlight and that is NATURAL GIFT. For those of you who have never heard of it, it is a one-time use physical non-contact move whose type and base power depends on the berry the user holds. This means that with a Cheri Berry, Magnezone is able to use an 80 base power fire type move.

Now you might be thinking that Magnezone's pitiful 70 base attack is not enough to pull this off, but here's the catch: Magnezone can learn Screech, which not only gives Ferrothorn -2 in defense but also in attack since body press's power is based on the defense of the user, and his other moves don't do much to Magnezone anyway, except for Bulldoze but I'll come back to that later. Here is a proof of concept on a fully Defensive Ferrothorn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1131796881

I'll go over what the Ferro player can do to counteract this tech and why it is unreliable:
- Leech Seed / Protect stall: while Protect technically makes using Natural Gift a 50/50, the Ferrothorn player is still at a massive disadvantage since Magnezone can use substitute or even magic coat to block leech seed, and as soon as the Ferrothorn protects he only has a 50% chance to survive, and Magnezone can still use Recycle or Signal Beam after that.
- Knock Off: admittedly annoying, but it takes two to three hits to break Magnezone's sub, who can still Recycle or use Signal Beam to win the 1V1. Additionally, it is pretty easy to scout for beforehand.
- Bulldoze: terrible move in general and does not even 2HKO Magnezone most of the time. You could even run Iron Defense if you are really scared of it.
- Thunder Wave to activate the berry: does not work on electric types but nice attempt
- Shed Shell / Occa Berry: well Ferrothorn could run that in previous gens and it did not prevent Magnezone from being OU

For the set, you would always run screech, and natural gift, and max attack. The rest of the spread is a tradeoff between being able to tank body presses better or to outspeed Corviknight. Sub + Recycle would be the most reliable set, but you could also run Signal Beam (relevant since either Natural Gift or this move will do enough damage to win depending on the Ferrothorn spread), Wild Charge for Skarmory and the rare Corviknight without u-turn (although I think you can beat them without it in many cases), or any other utility move such as screens, status or Volt Switch.

Obviously this set has downsides, namely the fact that it is pretty much dead weight if the opponent does not run Ferrothorn or Skarmory. It might also lose to Ferrothorn in some scenarios. But I think it could really empower teams that need Ferrothorn gone to shine. This is my first contribution after years of lurking, so I really hope it can positively impact the meta.

(Signal Beam is also cut)

 

[Talpr0ne]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but doesn't Skarm seem largely inferior to Corviknight? Its only real niches are 1. More physical defense (which actually isn't as big of an increase as some people are suggesting especially considering the huge SpD trade-off) and 2. Spikes/Stealth Rock which while definitely cool ain't enough to have them co-exist on an equal plane IMO especially since most of the weak mons like Volcarona and Talonflame will probably be running the timbs anyway.

People are also downplaying how bad the loss of Hidden Power is for Magnezone. On the one hand its only big matchup loss is Ferrothorn, but on the other hand that is a massive target to miss out on, and no Body Press does not come remotely close to compensating unless you run some whack Iron Defense set with a ton of investment.

The real niche Skarmory has over Corviknight is access to Whirlwind and Toxic. Corviknight can be a bit of a sitting duck at times, which enables the likes of Belly Drum Azumarill to use it as setup fodder. Still, Corviknight is a superior pivot, and OU is indeed too small for both of them, but there will be teams where Skarmory's characteristics will be more appreciated.

 

[Dreadfury]

So anyway...

It's Chansey, except this time it also gets Teleport. You turn every special attacker in the metagame into free momentum. Thank fuck Wish+Teleport isn't legal on this thing or else I'd be screaming for a day -3 quickban on this shit.

Anyone who's played NatDex OU for even a minute knows how irritating and consistent PortBro is. This will be a defensive staple of the tier, no questions asked.

It won't be quite as impossible to wall as we think it'll be since Psychic doesn't reliably beat Pex without a Z-move, but Volcarona is still going to be a monstrous threat to any teams that may lack a base 100 Scarfer with Rock coverage or a Toxapex.

This will never be another Dracovish, but Poliwrath with an actual movepool will be a gigantic threat under rain. It'll never be in OU but it'll have a distinct niche as perhaps the best physical Rain sweeper in the tier.

(and insert Magneton here too)
Traps Corviknight. Therefore very good. Also traps Skarmory, who isn't going to be a worse Corviknight after all. Therefore very good.

This bad boy got Hurricane, which makes it an enormous pain to wall now. This has always been the quintessential "best Swift Swimmer in the game" since Swift Swim was a thing in OU and this will be especially true considering how incredible perfectly-accurate Flying coverage tends to be.

Absolute fucking unit. Skarmory gives us another defensive Spiker, but this thing gives us another fat Grass type that provides very different support from Ferrothorn. While it lost Hidden Power in the transition to this generation, it still has an incredibly wide movepool with a bunch of great coverage and a bunch of great support options for PhysDef sets.

I'm not convinced that Azumarill will be as good as everybody thinks it'll be, but Belly Drum+Aqua Jet will always be a valuable asset.

And here's something people ARE sleeping on. This tier doesn't have too many offensive Steel-types currently and Scizor can provide that and much more, courtesy of its immaculate defensive typing in a meta without HP Fire and its expansive movepool. I don't think it'll be a staple on any team archetype, but it can find uses on every single archetype, from Balance to BO to Stall to full-blown HO, and it can do something unique for each of those squads that nothing else can. It might even act as an alternative Defog user to Corviknight since Magnezone/Magneton won't be able to utterly maul it nowadays. None of Scizor's counters (and they absolutely DO exist) appreciate eating a Knock Off or a boosted Superpower either, which is nice.

 

[Perish Song]

Hello, just some opinions about stuff that I'm expecting to see in post DLC meta.



The first thing I notice is how DLC offers next to nothing on how to handle this thing defensively. Sure we get Slowbro, but there are plenty of Pokemon such as Kyurem and Zeraora that can reliably break past it. If not that, Choice Band Cinderace can just U-turn on the Slowbro, effectively dealing up to 75% damage factoring entry hazards.



I think Zeraora definitively gets better post DLC, considering how most of the new additions are weak to its usual coverage. Talonflame, Slowbro and Skarmory drop to Plasma Fists, Chansey, and Magnezone drop to Close Combat. Its also getting a new check in Tangrowth and Rillaboom is picking up in usage, so I can see more Zeraoras using Toxic as Grass Knot doesn't offer anything much anymore now that Seismitoad is sort of irrelevant. Toxic provides an overall annoyance against the aforementioned defensive Pokemon combined with Knock Off and cripples the aforementioned Grass-types as well along with other existing defensive options such as Hippowdon and Kommo-o.



I am most excited to test this core myself. So far I used it in every DLC tour in the room and it does relatively well in the new metagame. Rillaboom is my Scarfer here to benefit best from Grassy Terrain, Hawlucha is the main abuser of it obviously and Magnezone traps Corviknight / Skarmory. Being able to trap Corviknight provides so much freedom to the core. Magnezone's job is not limited to that, with an Air Balloon set it sits on Hippowdon, it annoys Primarina, Clefable, and Toxapex by its STABs and can provide momentum with Volt Switch.



I am interested to see how Smogonbird will end up like. I hope that is good enough to preserve this Pokemon's usefulness because it has so much to offer. It comes with a fast Taunt, Defog, and Will-o-Wisp that can be used against offense because you don't fear Bisharp. You'll also get a priority Brave Bird at any given moment in the game granted you don't take unfortunate chip damage, which will allow you to revenge kill the likes of Hawlucha and boosted Volcarona. No need to mention fast U-turn. Overall it is difficult to speculate how this thing will function but I hope it won't be bad.



This thing seems to be extremely restrictive as of now. The amount of Pokemon who can take one or two hits from this thing is restricted to Toxapex and Chansey entirely, and Volcarona has sufficient coverage to break through everything else. With the proper team support, I can see Volcarona being extremely problematic for defensive backbones, and can only be checked offensively by Rock Slide Excadrill under Sand, and other Swift Swim users under Rain. However, even the offensive counterplay is restricted as Volcarona outspeeds every weather abuser barring Lycanroc at +2 Quiver Dance. I wouldn't be surprised if this thing gets quick banned lol.



Maybe my favorite physical wall, hooray. I can't wait to use this thing with Sleep Powder which I assume will be very annoying for many Pokemon as we currently don't have a viable Sleep spreader. Knock Off is extremely broken this generation where Megas and Z-moves don't exist, and we have too many Pokemon that are reliant on their items. Removing items like , and will be crucial from Pokemon like Clefable, Toxapex, Chansey, and Volcarona and Talonflame on the switch. It also has an extremely useful ability in Regenerator so it definitively will be a defensive staple paired with stuff like Toxapex and/or Slowbro IMO.



Skarmory has been one of my favorite Pokemon for generations now, so I felt like commenting on it. Just like the last generation, Skarmory will face competition with another Pokemon that has the same typing. People will argue that Corviknight is better, and I will agree with that as Corviknight yields more special bulk, identical physical bulk, has U-turn, comes with better ability, and can be an effective late-game sweeper if you want to. However, a few things that are limited to Skarmory and not to Corviknight are having access to utility options such as Whirlwind, Toxic, Stealth Rock, and Spikes. I am pretty sure there will be certain team comps that will allow Skarmory to be used over Corviknight. Most importantly, it comes with Body Press, which will hit more than Corviknight because despite the fact that they have a similar physical bulk Skarmory has a Def stat of 140. This results in some ridiculous damage calculations.

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 368-434 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 270-318 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 122-144 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Let me know if you agree/disagree with my thoughts, or if I missed anything :)

 

[Finchinator]

One thing I have seen over a number of posts is citing National Dex metagame experiences in order to draw conclusions on the viability of Pokemon in the post-DLC1 metagame. Keep in mind that National Dex is a vastly different environment with a lot more variables that can improve upon or hurt the viability of Pokemon relative to what it might be in the post-DLC1 OU metagame. I would try to avoid citing this as a piece of evidence when making an argument because of this. However, I do like a lot of the discussion here and appreciate that a lot of people have insight on all of our soon-to-be new toys!

 

[bsu]

IMO for volcarona the best sets will be running boots and
quiver dance
fire move
roost
sub/giga drain/psychic

bug buzz seems uneccessary as you set up on hydreigon, and ttar is bad and will get worse with almost all new drops threatening it or walling it. Bug hits nothing that fire (or grass) wouldnt hit regardless, so unless youre running an offensive QD 3 moves volc i dont think bug would be any good.

Sub bulky would be good to dodge knock offs from tangrowth with some investment. Since OU is pretty slow you can afford to run a lot of bulk
0 Atk Tangrowth Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Volcarona: 79-94 (21.1 - 25.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (volc at 25% hp)
88 speed evs timid allow volc to outspeed zeroara at +1 and have a 94% for the sub to live knock off

toxapex doesnt counter volc with psychic
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 170-202 (55.9 - 66.4%)
quiver + roost outstalls pex with haze and recover.

Giga would be for slowbro, maybe you could slot it over roost as it could replace recovery but idk how good that would be.

SD roost BP knock scizor imo will also be very good on/vs balance for annoying teams and chipping for sweeps later. No pursuit means its harder to bluff CB though :(

 

[PimpParasect]

Heavy-duty boots is nice for this thing, but since we're getting a great offensive spinner in starmie back, a defogger in scizor, as well as still having defog conkeldurr, and excadrill, I wonder if its even worth running boots on volc over life orb, berries, leftovers, or even choiced items. Volcarona isn't a pokemon you'd frequently switch-in, even bulkarona usually comes in and sets up on a target it can abuse followed by a clean-up/sweep, so I wonder if it'd still be worth it to just run the team support and play around that instead of boots when volc isn't pivoting as much as other HDB users.

With how good excadrill and conk are right now, I would not be surprised to see volcarona go places without the new toys, especially since they both deal with chansey and excadrill can threaten pex.

The biggest issue for volc will likely be 4MSS. It can't have a moveslot for both stabs + psychic for pex + giga drain for waters + sub/roost for sustain and the obligatory quiver dance. It doesn't have a real coverage move for dragapult other than neutral psychic/hurricane, but if it goes against a team without them or somebody can remove the 1 answer, volc is going to be a massive win con. I don't believe it will be near ban worthy though, there's plenty of revenge killers and walls in the current meta that can deal with volc, namely chansey which volc cannot do anything to and sp.def unaware clefable is a decent check into it as well. Crawdaunt, Azumaril, and if we're that desperate or if volc becomes that centralizing then lycanroc + talonflame will be seen as revenge killers. Speaking of the bird..

doubt we'll see much t-flame. Even with HDB, its base attack is on the lower end without choice band or life orb, and the main reason to use boots is to preserve gale wings which goes away after 1 brave bird recoil, sand, or ferrothorn on the u-turn predict. If its going to exist, its going to be to revenge kill but right now even dragapult and zeraora gives its speed tier a run for its money. There's better revenge killers but depending on how scary volc gets maybe it'll be the 'volcarona insurance' mon.

I'm very curious to see what others come up with for mag. Losing fire coverage sucks a lot for it, and you have to speed creep mag otherwise it just gets 2hko'd by body press corv/skarmory (assuming you switch into the body press or they sub). Shed shell on corv or skarmory means mag can only switch in once, then after that its no longer a threat to them.

 

[Vengeance417]

Something I'm surprised nobody's bringing up about Talonflame; thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots protecting it from Stealth Rock, this Pokemon essentially has priority Defog as long as it's at 100% health, which it can guarantee if it comes in for free. I can see this trait being valuable for offensive teams that'd like to have a last-ditch effort to remove hazards and/or screens to help carve an easier path for any of its teammates to sweep. It's sort of like having a Scarf Defog mon without the drawback of being locked into the move. I can't say for sure if this will be one of Talonflame's defining traits in OU going forward, but it's definitely something to consider.

 

[escarlata]

With regards to trapping and KOing Ferrothorn, this set is actually able to do it semi-reliably without completely sacrificing the matchup against Skarm and Corv. Metal Sound with a triggered Weakness Policy becomes a OHKO against PDef Ferrothorn. Even if Ferrothorn decides to Knock Off before using Body Press, Magnezone is able to survive that combination of attacks and KO Ferrothorn by using Metal Sound followed by 2 Electro Balls. Modest nature literally doesn't work because Electro Ball drops to 80 BP.

Set

Magnezone @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound
- Electro Ball

Calc

+2 252 SpA Magnezone Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 345-406 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnezone Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. -2 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 173-204 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

PDef Ferrothorn does a maximum of 96.7% with Knock Off + Body Press.

Still fails to beat Mixed Def Ferrothorn though.
+2 252 SpA Magnezone Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. -2 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 297-351 (84.3 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

At the moment, it's gimmicky at best because Metal Sound doesn't have perfect accuracy. Also, Ferrothorn can just run a bit of SDef investment (or 20 Spe EV lol) to survive. But I guess that's something... Oh, also Corviknight cannot Body Press either because it gives Magnezone a +2.

Edit:

Something I really really want to try is Choice Specs Hurricane Talonflame in the Rain, like how I have tried running Specs Moltres in Rain teams in the past, but calcs showed that it deals less than I'd hope.

I feel like a specially bulky variant (either Vest or Band with SDef investment) might be pretty good by virtue of being the best answer to Specs Kyurem, but offensive variants might be harder to run with the number of strong defensive Steels and Waters we have in the tier. Speaking of which, Zone can't trap Zor either.

 

[Vengeance417]

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Accelerock
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs / Crunch

Discount Terrakion. The major thing that sets Dusk Lycanroc apart from Terrakion is Accelerock, which I feel should be required when running this Pokemon for the reasons listed already in this thread, with the big one dealing with boosted Volcarona. Otherwise, you're running a worse Terrak.

Other than that, Lycanroc got really nice toys in Close Combat and Psychic Fangs this gen. No longer does Lycanroc need to run the sub-par Fire Fang to deal with Ferrothorn or Drill Run to hit Toxapex. +2 Close Combat OHKOes physdef Ferro while Psychic Fangs does the same to physdef Pex. Crunch may also be an option to dunk on Slowbro, OHKOing max-max Def after rocks. Jolly will most likely be the preferred nature since it allows Lycanroc to outpace non scarf variants of Terrakion/Keldeo, and everything slower. Adamant has a neat trait of allowing Lycanroc to guaranteeing the OHKO on both Dragapult and Zeraora with Accelerock after Stealth Rock, but Jolly is about a 62% chance to OHKO after rocks and it shouldn't be too hard to slightly chip both Pokemon to bring them in range.

The big issue with this Pokemon is actually getting that Swords Dance off due to its poor bulk. This could be a neat mon to use on Screens offense since it'll benefit from the extra bulk. Overall, this mon might end up being pretty fringe compared other SD sweepers, but I see it being a lot better now compared to how it was in USUM.

 

[Ema Skye]

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Accelerock
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs / Crunch

Discount Terrakion. The major thing that sets Dusk Lycanroc apart from Terrakion is Accelerock, which I feel should be required when running this Pokemon for the reasons listed already in this thread, with the big one dealing with boosted Volcarona. Otherwise, you're running a worse Terrak.

Other than that, Lycanroc got really nice toys in Close Combat and Psychic Fangs this gen. No longer does Lycanroc need to run the sub-par Fire Fang to deal with Ferrothorn or Drill Run to hit Toxapex. +2 Close Combat OHKOes physdef Ferro while Psychic Fangs does the same to physdef Pex. Crunch may also be an option to dunk on Slowbro, OHKOing max-max Def after rocks. Jolly will most likely be the preferred nature since it allows Lycanroc to outpace non scarf variants of Terrakion/Keldeo, and everything slower. Adamant has a neat trait of allowing Lycanroc to guaranteeing the OHKO on both Dragapult and Zeraora with Accelerock after Stealth Rock, but Jolly is about a 62% chance to OHKO after rocks and it shouldn't be too hard to slightly chip both Pokemon to bring them in range.

The big issue with this Pokemon is actually getting that Swords Dance off due to its poor bulk. This could be a neat mon to use on Screens offense since it'll benefit from the extra bulk. Overall, this mon might end up being pretty fringe compared other SD sweepers, but I see it being a lot better now compared to how it was in USUM.

Just to add on to this, it can also check Cinderace better than Terrakion due to Accelrock. Jolly Accelrock does 88% min, while Adamant does 94%, and both have a chance of OHKOing. Choice Band sets have the benefit of guaranteed OHKO regardless of nature. Adamant CB Accelrock also does over 55% to both Dragapult and Zeraora, so it can clean them both up fairly well. CB Scizor might be better at this due to its Bullet Punch being stronger, but Zeraora resists Bullet Punch so it's substantially less powerful. Cinderace resists as well when it's a Fire-type, as does Volcarona.

 

[Odd Numbers]

Regarding Talonflame, I initially started writing about how gimmicky I thought its OU potential would be, but in reflection I think it actually has a good shot at being an OU as it stands. Being a fast U-Turn Defogger with the ability to check Clefable and Cinderace and counter Volcarona is an undeniably viable niche. Of course, it’s fairly limited in how much it can actually do as it needs Heavy Duty Boots to be a viable Defogger and Roost to stay at full health to be able to guarantee a Defog. It is then limited further in moves as it can either choose to check Steel types with Flare Blitz for power or Overheat for health preservation, Brave Bird (or the new flying type attack if A) it learns it and B) it’s strong enough), U-Turn for pivoting power, or Taunt for utility. It still has a number of checks and counters, namely Tyranitar and the returning Slowbro, and it can’t really handle chip damage without giving up momentum. It also doesn’t have the luxury of running CB or LO freely. All that said, I plan on running a max/max Atk/Spe spread to start, at least as a means of halting the imminent swarm of Volcarona while gauging how much it needs more power or health. Barebones minimum, it might end up as a B/B- pick with marginal usage before falling into UU, but at best it could stand as a solid Volcarona counter/Defogger.

Smogbird (Talonflame) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz/Overheat/U-Turn/Taunt
- Defog
- Roost

 

[aceguy123]

This is what my tierlist ended up being. Slowbro teleport is the best but Volcarona is a closer 2nd than I thought before I actually evaluated the tier. It's basically only is stopped by Rotom-H, Pex, and Chansey and they can be muscled past. Heatran not coming out in the same DLC means it's a god. Chansey is Chansey and bulk is good rn. I may have evaluated Magnezone too high thinking about it just because of the Rotom-H matchup but I do think it'll be very common to use, having a removal option against steels a team needs to get past is OP.

Tangrowth is great and makes Zeraora cry.

I really disagree with Finch only putting Starmie in B and thinking it'll be UU, I see it as very good right now. Both bulky and offensive sets have fantastic matchups. It has the ability to kill most of the tier, I think better than Keldeo anyway.


Azumarill will be strong, I think it has more opportunities in this tier to belly drum than it did in SM. Even without Belly Drum it can do some damage especially if Pex becomes more SpD invested for Volc.

Skarm having spikes alone I think will make it worthwhile. Its Body Press is also kinda sick.

Talonflame I'm hesitant on it being good if only cuz of Rotom-H. I like the idea of it with its SpD set and boots coming in and getting will-o-wisps off for a Hex Drag team or something.

B and above I see at least having tiered viability in OU. Mienshao having the best shot afterward.

 

[Pabloaram]

The DLC could signal the return of VoltTurn as a viable playstyle. This generation there have been heretofore relatively few users of U-Turn and Volt Switch in OU, and the general balkanization to hyperoffense and fat balance have relegated extant users to pivot roles as part of a team, rather than teams being built around the momentum gain of pivot moves (i.e. VoltTurn).

That won't necessarily be the case in the post-Isle of Armor metagame.
Returning in the DLC are:
and
Scizor is walled by Corviknight, Toxapex, and Skarmory. Magnezone beats these three, allowing Scizor to fire off banded U-turns all over the place.

A good partner for these will be . Cinderace can U-Turn, and beat things that the aforementioned pair struggle with, like Corviknight and Tyranitar, as well as potentially backup-checking Toxapex.

VoltTurn matches up quite well against balance, and could seriously disrupt some of the bulkier builds that will emerge from the DLC.

Add Scarf to backup the eq weakness..
Also add a teleport core like and .. And the team become so fun to me... some like Volteleturn core

 

[robofiend]

On the Zone vs. Ferrothorn point - if it's not running Body Press, Zone can beat any standard Knock Off Ferro with this:

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Modest Nature
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Metal Sound

I expect most Ferro will be running BP for this reason though

 

[readytolose]

I'd like to throw in my two cents about Ferro vs. Zone and propose the set I think will be best suited to win that matchup.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Def / 64 SpA / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Thunderbolt / Discharge

So the EVs on this set look pretty weird, but they serve a very specific purpose. The Speed EVs allow Magnezone to outspeed uninvested Skarmory. The Defense allows Magnezone to hit as hard as possible with Body Press, and with that amount of HP, it always prevents max Defense Ferrothorn's Body Press from breaking a +2 Defense Magnezone's Substitute. The rest just goes into Special Attack to hit harder with your last move. This makes the Magnezone vs. Ferrothorn matchup pretty easy as the Magnezone user needs to just win a 50/50; either sub up on the Leech Seed, or use Iron Defense on the Body Press and sub up after. Magnezone's +2 Body Press is a guaranteed 2HKO on Ferrothorn, even if it does manage to get a Leech Seed off. Against Corviknight, it can play similar 50/50s or just smack it with its Electric move hard, and Skarmory loses even harder, even if it can do a little more with Body Press. This set can also trap Bisharp if needed and can counter-trap opposing Choiced Magnezone too.

I was pretty sus about Body Press Magnezone, but after doing the calcs it can certainly still cut it as a trapper for Ferrothorn, you just need to be a bit more creative. I'd imagine more offensive sets with Chople Berry could prove useful for the Body Press steels as well, even without Kartana's presence lol.

 

[Cuddly]

Unrelated to Magnezone (or sort of related), I am currently doing comparisons of Skarmory’s Body Press vs Corviknight’s Body Press.
Skarmory’s Body Press is stronger than Corviknight’s, doing more damage on min rolls than Corviknight’s Max rolls.
This, Hazards, Whirlwind, and Toxic, may be the only saving graces Skarmory has over Corviknight.

Skarmory vs Corviknight Body Press Damage

To compare, if Skarmory doesn’t increase the HKO by a stage, a point will go to Corviknight. If Skarmory can increase the HKO stage, Skarmory will receive a point.

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 306-360 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 248-294 (68.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 0
Corvi: 1

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 122-144 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 92.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 1
Corvi: 1

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 222-262 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 180-214 (55.3 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 1
Corvi: 2
(All-Out Attacker. Bulk Up would beat both anyways)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 143-169 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 117-138 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 2

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 220-260 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 180-212 (46 - 54.2%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
Unfortunately for Skarmory, Corviknight still 2HKOs, but this was close
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 3

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 220-260 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 4

Come on now. We all know that both OHKO Bisharp
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 5
(Before Shell Smash)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 122-144 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 5
(After Shell Smash)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 180-214 (74.6 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 148-176 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 6

Same story as Bisharp. Corviknight OHKOs and you already knew this.
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 7

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 180-214 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
Another unfortunate close call
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 8

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 242-286 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 198-234 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 286-338 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 192-226 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 234-276 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 158-186 (30.1 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Since Skarm can increase the HKO level for both Switching into Snorlax and Snorlax switching into it, it gets 2 points.
I’ll also throw in an additional 0.5 as Skarmory has access to Whirlwind to phase out Snorlax.
Skarm: 5.5
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 232-274 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 190-224 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 6.5
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 376-444 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 304-360 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Skarm: 6.5
Corvi: 10

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 96-114 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 7.5
Corvi: 10
(Defog)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 96-113 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 79-93 (26 - 30.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
After some analysis, Skarmory can 3HKO Defog Rotom-Wash if Body Press does exactly 3 maximum rolls. And Corviknight needs some good luck with
Skarm: 8.5
Corvi: 10

Honestly I’m only comparing Rotom-Heat since I feel obligated to point out in the rare scenario where Rotom-Heat may be...idk some scenario where Body Press saves your ass.
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 96-113 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 79-93 (26 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
There. If Rotom-H took 68.4% damage prior, you’ll KO it with Skarmory. Otherwise, Corviknight can at least survive 1 unboosted Overheat actually, but you’ll be at such low health too.
0.1 for Skarmory since it changes mostly nothing.
Skarm: 8.6
Corvi: 10
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 194-230 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 158-188 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 9.6
Corvi: 10

Here, we have an example of a Pokemon that Skarmory’s best offensive move is Body Press, but Corviknight’s best move is Brave Bird (which does more damage than Skarm’s Body Press)
No points for either.
This explains why I skipped some other Pokemon.

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- 95.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 78-92 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Skarm: 10.6
Corvi: 10

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracozolt: 111-131 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracozolt: 90-107 (28 - 33.3%) -- 91.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 10

Lmao again.
What are you expecting?
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 11

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This may seem like a win for Skarmory, but remember Umbreon has Protect.
[394/16]floor = 24
394 - 220 = 174
174 + 24 + 24 = 222
222 - 220 = 2
2 + 24 + 24 = 50
50 - 220 = KO
so it’s really a 3HKO.
But let’s check Corviknight too
394 - 180 = 214
214 + 24 + 24 = 262
262 - 180 = 82
82 + 24 + 24 = 130
130 - 180 = KO
So it’s also a 3HKO
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 12
Oh, and one last Pokemon, or rather 2.
No Roost
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 58-69 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 47-56 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Skarm: 12.6
Corvi: 12
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 116-138 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 94-112 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
Skarm: 12.6
Corvi: 13
No Roost
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 71-84 (17.7 - 21%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 58-69 (14.5 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 14.6 (2 points for raising it twice)
Corvi: 13
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 142-168 (35.5 - 42%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 116-138 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 15.6
Corvi: 13

Honestly was not expecting Skarmory to get that many points.
Sure I’m giving a Pokemon like Ferrothorn equal value to Umbreon, but currently those are the older viability rankings, which will change up.

 

[Pabloaram]

Unrelated to Magnezone (or sort of related), I am currently doing comparisons of Skarmory’s Body Press vs Corviknight’s Body Press.
Skarmory’s Body Press is stronger than Corviknight’s, doing more damage on min rolls than Corviknight’s Max rolls.
This, Hazards, Whirlwind, and Toxic, may be the only saving graces Skarmory has over Corviknight.

Skarmory vs Corviknight Body Press Damage

To compare, if Skarmory doesn’t increase the HKO by a stage, a point will go to Corviknight. If Skarmory can increase the HKO stage, Skarmory will receive a point.

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 306-360 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 248-294 (68.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 0
Corvi: 1

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 122-144 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 100-118 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 92.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 1
Corvi: 1

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 222-262 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 180-214 (55.3 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 1
Corvi: 2
(All-Out Attacker. Bulk Up would beat both anyways)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 143-169 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Zeraora: 117-138 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 2

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 220-260 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 180-212 (46 - 54.2%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO
Unfortunately for Skarmory, Corviknight still 2HKOs, but this was close
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 3

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 220-260 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 4

Come on now. We all know that both OHKO Bisharp
Skarm: 2
Corvi: 5
(Before Shell Smash)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 122-144 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 100-118 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 5
(After Shell Smash)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 180-214 (74.6 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 148-176 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 6

Same story as Bisharp. Corviknight OHKOs and you already knew this.
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 7

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 180-214 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
Another unfortunate close call
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 8

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 242-286 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 198-234 (54.8 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 3
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 286-338 (54.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 192-226 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 234-276 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Snorlax: 158-186 (30.1 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Since Skarm can increase the HKO level for both Switching into Snorlax and Snorlax switching into it, it gets 2 points.
I’ll also throw in an additional 0.5 as Skarmory has access to Whirlwind to phase out Snorlax.
Skarm: 5.5
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 232-274 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 190-224 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Skarm: 6.5
Corvi: 9

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 376-444 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 304-360 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Skarm: 6.5
Corvi: 10

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 96-114 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 7.5
Corvi: 10
(Defog)
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 96-113 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 79-93 (26 - 30.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
After some analysis, Skarmory can 3HKO Defog Rotom-Wash if Body Press does exactly 3 maximum rolls. And Corviknight needs some good luck with
Skarm: 8.5
Corvi: 10

Honestly I’m only comparing Rotom-Heat since I feel obligated to point out in the rare scenario where Rotom-Heat may be...idk some scenario where Body Press saves your ass.
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 96-113 (31.6 - 37.2%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 79-93 (26 - 30.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
There. If Rotom-H took 68.4% damage prior, you’ll KO it with Skarmory. Otherwise, Corviknight can at least survive 1 unboosted Overheat actually, but you’ll be at such low health too.
0.1 for Skarmory since it changes mostly nothing.
Skarm: 8.6
Corvi: 10
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 194-230 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 158-188 (37.2 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Skarm: 9.6
Corvi: 10

Here, we have an example of a Pokemon that Skarmory’s best offensive move is Body Press, but Corviknight’s best move is Brave Bird (which does more damage than Skarm’s Body Press)
No points for either.
This explains why I skipped some other Pokemon.

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- 95.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 78-92 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Skarm: 10.6
Corvi: 10

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracozolt: 111-131 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracozolt: 90-107 (28 - 33.3%) -- 91.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 10

Lmao again.
What are you expecting?
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 11

252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This may seem like a win for Skarmory, but remember Umbreon has Protect.
[394/16]floor = 24
394 - 220 = 174
174 + 24 + 24 = 222
222 - 220 = 2
2 + 24 + 24 = 50
50 - 220 = KO
so it’s really a 3HKO.
But let’s check Corviknight too
394 - 180 = 214
214 + 24 + 24 = 262
262 - 180 = 82
82 + 24 + 24 = 130
130 - 180 = KO
So it’s also a 3HKO
Skarm: 11.6
Corvi: 12
Oh, and one last Pokemon, or rather 2.
No Roost
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 58-69 (17.3 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 47-56 (14 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Skarm: 12.6
Corvi: 12
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 116-138 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 94-112 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO
Skarm: 12.6
Corvi: 13
No Roost
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 71-84 (17.7 - 21%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 58-69 (14.5 - 17.2%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 14.6 (2 points for raising it twice)
Corvi: 13
Roosted
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 142-168 (35.5 - 42%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 116-138 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Skarm: 15.6
Corvi: 13

Honestly was not expecting Skarmory to get that many points.
Sure I’m giving a Pokemon like Ferrothorn equal value to Umbreon, but currently those are the older viability rankings, which will change up.

I think this type of comparisons is like vs , when you have a mon with many tools in paper but lack some especific ones what make be outclassed by the other.
I mean has hazzard and more phys bulk but lack uturn and presure, also having less special bulk than Corvi. When has the job done without needed the increase phys bulk: being the best defogger in the tier when checking threats like .
Skarm is better in stall when Corvi is better in everything else.

 

[Pabloaram]

Someone know is G-Bro has regenerator?

 

[War Incarnate]

Someone know is G-Bro has regenerator?

To my knowledge we currently don't know too much about Galarian Slowbro so at the moment this is unknown.

Best to wait it out and then see afterward.

 

[Vengeance417]

Galarian Slowpoke happens to have Regenerator as an unreleased Hidden Ability, but it's uncertain if G-Slowbro will keep the pattern going. I'd say it's likely, but only time will tell.

 

[Cuddly]

I think this type of comparisons is like vs , when you have a mon with many tools is paper with lack some especific ones what make be outclassed by the other.
I mean has hazzard and more phys bulk but lack uturn and presure, also having less special bulk than Corvi. When has the job done without needed the increase phys bulk: being the best defogger in the tier when checking threats like .
Skarm is better in stall when Corvi is better in everything else.

I didn’t include comparisons where Brave Bird or Iron Head would do more damage, such as Seismitoad.
In those cases, I would just reverse the comparisons where we see how much of a difference Corviknight’s Brave Bird/Iron Head makes since Corviknight has stronger Atk.
Here is Corvi vs Seismitoad in Brave Bird and Body Press.
0 Atk Corviknight Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 100-118 (24.1 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 72-85 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
and here is Skarm vs Seismitoad with the same moves.
252+ Def Skarmory Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 88-104 (21.2 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 93-111 (22.4 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, Skarmory’s physical bulk is better, but only slightly.
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 158-187 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
It’s literally less than a percentage in this case on the physical side, and the special side is a large gap.
vs CM Clefable
0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 185-218 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Clefable Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
vs Specs Gengar
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Corviknight: 223-264 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 262-309 (78.4 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, both scenario examples are 2HKOs, but you save a lot more health from using Corviknight than Skarmory.

 

[InvisibleWater]

(all tiers are sorted alphabetically)

- Fat blob does fat blob things. Thank god Wish and Teleport aren't legal on the same set.

- Yep. This thing is going to be absolutely terrifying.

- Choice Band sets might actually be pretty good this gen. Definitely trying it out once DLC is released.

- For some reason I really want to try this on a Rain team

- Not really convinced that Body Press sets are any good. Will probably have to do some testing first.

- Got just about everything it wanted from the new TM list. It can also revenge-kill Volc, which is nice.

- Outclassed by Corviknight in almost every way imaginable... and it's probably still going to end up in OU and stay there for the rest of the generation

- Banded, Reckless-boosted HJK is slightly more powerful than a Conkeldurr's Guts-boosted Close Combat, which is... something, I guess.

- Murders every defensive core... except ClefCorv. Great.

- It's a Chlorophyll user that isn't walled by Kommo-O. That's... something, I guess?

- Desperately wishes that permanent rain was still a thing

- Unless they randomly decided to un-nerf Gale Wings, I don't think this will be any good.

- roflmao

 

[Cuddly]

Sorry for the double post, but I took the liberty of making a few Starmie sets.
I personally believe Starmie will be the second best returning Pokemon given it's pretty good buffs it has, the nerfs its counters got, and its stats compared to everything else.

First, the classic Offensive Spinner set
Offensive Spinner (Starmie) @ Life Orb/Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Psyshock/Thunderbolt/Psychic
- Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
In SWSH OU, things are generally slower and the move Rapid Spin now increases your speed, so honestly Starmie can easily get away with running Modest more often. After a Rapid Spin, Modest Starmie will be outrunning Scarf Jolly Jirachi.
So even with Modest, not a lot of things will be outrunning Starmie after Rapid Spinning.
And when it is at that speed, if you find your Starmie up against the likes of Bisharp or Tyranitar (which I may add, CB sets are OHKO'd by Hydro Pump after Stealth Rocks thanks to Modest), what do you do? First you say "no". Then you get oughta there. For Starmie, Pursuit's removal is a double edge sword that heavily favors Starmie in this case.
Sure, Ghost can always cuck your Rapid Spin since they don't have to worry about Pursuit too.
But you're also dealing with Starmie here. Gengar doesn't want to switch into a Psyshock or Hydro Pump and many of Gengars don't want to temp the idea that Starmie may be Timid or Modest if it wants to block Rapid Spin too.
Also, Timid is great too for scenarios like that.
Dragapult similarly doesn't like Modest Starmie's Ice Beam. It has a fringe chance of surviving Ice Beam and won't survive with Stealth Rocks up.
And then Aegislash, being the slowest Ghost, you would think would would be the answer, right?
Well maybe if you have Specially Bulky Aegislash, you would be right, but without investment, Aegislash-Shield is 2HKO'd by Starmie's Hydro Pump. If you are running Specs or Swords Dance, not even Aegislash can Switch in and finish off Starmie.
Only Banded Aegislash is able to beat Starmie with it's immediate power and Shadow Sneak.
Offensive Starmie is also really good at being an Anti-Defogger too.
I made a post in UU about how Mr. Mime-G is actually a really good Anti-Defogger and Anti-Hazards, and Starmie here is just that, but better.
Thunderbolt beats Corviknight.
Hydro Pump washes out Rotom-H.
Ice Beam/Thunderbolt will shut down SpD Mandibuzz switching in.
Hydro Pump is powerful enough to make Hatterene go mad.
Xatu won't be for you.
And...umm Pelipper/Mantine too I guess?
That's about it in terms of OU's Hazard control.
But to summarize, offensive spinner Starmie will definitely be a premier staple in SWSH OU, as an incredibly fast and powerful hazard controller in a Meta severally lacking hazard control at all.

"Slower" Bulky (Starmie) @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Teleport
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Next up is Bulky Starmie with a different spread.
Thanks to the decreased speed creep in SWSH OU, like stated previously, Starmie can ease on the speed a bit more since there will be less things outspeeding it now.
With the 136 Spe and Timid (330), Starmie is going to be outrunning positive nature base 100 (328). Also after Rapid Spin, this speed stat will outpace Swift Swim Seismitoad (494) as well by 1 point.
The remaining EVs are put into making Starmie Physically bulky as possible (although you can go Specially Bulky if you would like as well).
Scald is a favorite of bulky water types, and with Starmie, it typically will have 2 turns to burn a Pokemon, which is a 51% chance of burning at least on one of those turns.
Teleport is a sweet pivoting tool that Starmie now can actually use competitively. Unfortunately, it has negative priority, which is why I made Starmie's bulkiest set use it. At least with a bulkier set, Starmie can utilize teleport to greater effects as it's more likely to tank multiple hits.
Recover lets Starmie recover and Rapid Spin removes Hazards while making Starmie faster.
Heavy-Duty Boots is a great alternative to Leftovers, since it's Starmie's job to remove Hazards, and being immune to Sticky Web helps Starmie a lot.
Nothing too exciting here besides Teleport, but it's good to have options.

Fast Bulky (Starmie) @ Leftovers/Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Alternatively, this bulk set can be run. It's Maximum Speed Starmie with Max HP, and aside from the change of 4 EVs in 1 stat and the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots as an alternative item, it's pretty much the same as before.

Choice Specs (Starmie) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Psyshock/Psychic/Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
- Trick/Rapid Spin
Lastly, here is Specs Starmie.
With the removal of Megas, tricking choice items is much easier to pull off.
Yeah, Knock Off exists for item control, but Starmie doesn't get that option and Tricking a Specs can completely ruin a Pokemon such as Chansey, Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Scarfers, and Physical Attackers.
Rapid Spin is also still a good option, as Hazard Removal will never not be a good option, especially since Specs Starmie provides such good offensive pressure. But seeing how common Corviknight is and how easy it can defog, you could lay off the Rapid Spin if your team isn't in demand.
Also, Timid is preferred in this set as you can't abuse the Rapid Spin if you don't Trick first, and having both in 1 set sounds awful.