Unpopular opinions

speaking of Gen 2 (referring to a few posts above), I've always thought GSC's level curve was awful. I beat the game with just Typhlosion and Ampharos (and Suicune in Crystal). Then you get to the post game, which is one big training exercise for Gold. In any other game, you'd have some gigantic hurdle to work around, like Ultra Necrozma, Tate & Liza, or Koga (both of which are unpopular opinions but they always screw my runs over if I'm not prepared). In GSC, you can cheese it with 2 Pokemon, and then catch 4 Gravelers in Victory Road so you can spam Full Restores/Max Revives and do a little damage in return.
 
Again, not a fan of "Let's Go" esque remakes, especially for art. Also Togepi would be a terrible starter with its movepool (doesn't learn any attacks until level 16), and it and Marill's stats are way too low for a starter
There's a good reason Pikachu sucked in Yellow. Too sparse a moveset at the start, too frail to last
 
Again, not a fan of "Let's Go" esque remakes, especially for art. Also Togepi would be a terrible starter with its movepool (doesn't learn any attacks until level 16), and it and Marill's stats are way too low for a starter
There's a good reason Pikachu sucked in Yellow. Too sparse a moveset at the start, too frail to last
You realize the starters have buffed stats, right? And that they can change movepools in whatever way they want? A ton of Pokemon have moves they can learn in Let's Go PE and nowhere else.
 
The biggest hurdle to have Marill and Togepi as starters to a Johto Let's Go is both are Fairy-type but even this isn't a dealbreaker.

The brand in Let's Go is the catching mechanics similar to Pokémon Go not Pikachu and Eevee.
 
The biggest hurdle to have Marill and Togepi as starters to a Johto Let's Go is both are Fairy-type but even this isn't a dealbreaker.

The brand in Let's Go is the catching mechanics similar to Pokémon Go not Pikachu and Eevee.

I can't see Togepi being an exclusive starter. The Johto quest already starts off with the mystery of the Mystery Egg, and Togepi is more like a baby than a partner.
 
Eh, for some of those (XY and SS especially) I wouldn't describe the villain stories as deep or complex. I'd describe them as trying to be deep and complex and falling flat on their faces. Though I'm with you in wanting to drop the villain plot altogether. Giving each mainline Pokemon game two plots that are almost entirely unrelated to each other (the champion plot and the villain plot) is such a bizarre choice that I'm baffled not only as to why it's continued, but as to why it was done in the first place.

I'm a little late to the discussion, but just to chime in: Legendary teams are included in the game to give you story moments with something at stake (you're infiltrating the enemy's lair, or a building they've taken over) that can be resolved through a string of Pokémon battles. If your rival had been the only antagonist in the game, each of those story moments would go by in a single battle, with no build-up.

Plus, enemy grunts tend to be a good excuse to block routes or caves you're not supposed to enter before a story moment has been cleared.

So yeah, while it makes the games a little samey and the execution isn't always the best good, I can see why they keep using the evil team trope. It's primarily to pad out the story, particularly in the plot-important scenes.
 
I'm a little late to the discussion, but just to chime in: Legendary teams are included in the game to give you story moments with something at stake (you're infiltrating the enemy's lair, or a building they've taken over) that can be resolved through a string of Pokémon battles. If your rival had been the only antagonist in the game, each of those story moments would go by in a single battle, with no build-up.

Plus, enemy grunts tend to be a good excuse to block routes or caves you're not supposed to enter before a story moment has been cleared.

So yeah, while it makes the games a little samey and the execution isn't always the best good, I can see why they keep using the evil team trope. It's primarily to pad out the story, particularly in the plot-important scenes.
I suppose. I also realized that in Gen 1, the villain plot and champion plot do actually intersect in a small but cool way, that of course being the reveal of Giovanni as a gym leader. After that, the plots rarely converge in a satisfying way, with the only instances I can think of being N's stated goal of becoming champion in BW and the games' finale, Guzma and his goons being angry at the champion plot's existence (i.e. the island challenge) and I guess Team Yell's relation to Piers and Marnie, but Team Yell isn't really... a thing.

While legendaries aren't necessary for a game's story to work (Giovanni and Blue carry Gen 1 by themselves) they can also exist without an evil team and still make a good story. For example, malevolent legendaries like Groudon, Kyogre, and Eternatus could feasibly awaken by themselves and the climax would be more or less the same. Friendly but depowered legendaries like Nebby could drive a plot without an evil team preventing you from restoring their power. Mysterious legendaries like Zacian and Zamazenta could also drive a plot without an evil team, and they pair well with malevolent legendaries, either by being the same legendary (gotta unravel the mystery to both realize the world is doomed and to figure out how to make it undoomed) or by opposing the malevolent legendary (what Zacian and Zamazenta already do).
 
Guzma and his goons being angry at the champion plot's existence (i.e. the island challenge) and I guess Team Yell's relation to Piers and Marnie, but Team Yell isn't really... a thing.
I will never stop repeating it, but when looking at gen 7 and 8, people need to stop looking at the two "teams" for the evil team shenenigans.
(I guess this counts as unpopular opinion too?)

You don't look at how Guzma/Skull and Yell/Marnie intersect with the plot, you look at how Lusamine and Rose's gangs do.
And they do in a meaningful manner (Lusamine is using Alola and Z-energy as research base to get the Ultra-Beasts to come to our world so she can follow them with team Skull being her puppets, and we know that Rose is more or less using the Champion as puppet and the Gym Challenge as a cover for his operations of energy gathering to awaken and enslave Eternatus).
 
I will never stop repeating it, but when looking at gen 7 and 8, people need to stop looking at the two "teams" for the evil team shenenigans.
(I guess this counts as unpopular opinion too?)

You don't look at how Guzma/Skull and Yell/Marnie intersect with the plot, you look at how Lusamine and Rose's gangs do.
And they do in a meaningful manner (Lusamine is using Alola and Z-energy as research base to get the Ultra-Beasts to come to our world so she can follow them with team Skull being her puppets, and we know that Rose is more or less using the Champion as puppet and the Gym Challenge as a cover for his operations of energy gathering to awaken and enslave Eternatus).
I don't see why those games can't have two teams. In any case, Lusamine doesn't really interact with the champion plot at all. You just kinda put the island challenge on hold to deal with her (compare that to Team Skull, whose main goal is "down with the island challenge"). And Rose's villainy comes right the fuck out of nowhere. It does technically intersect with the champion plot because he interupts the final tournament, but it's far from satisfying.

My issue isn't that villain plots aren't good (some are, some aren't). My issue is that the villain plots are often completely disconnected from the champion plots.
 
I think you're conflating FRLG with Let's Go. The only dex roadblock in FRLG is the postgame 60 one (which still sucks).

The postgame roadblock is a good example of something that would frustrate me now (as someone who likes to replay the games fairly quickly with different teams) but which I actually enjoyed a lot as a kid. Or rather: I didn’t know what catching more Pokémon would unlock, so when I was told to fill up my Pokédex some more I was happy to do it and found it fun going back to areas I hadn’t spent much time in.

These days, of course, it’s a bit of a nuisance catching a bunch of extra mons just to get the rest of the Sevii Islands unlocked, but it makes sense from a story perspective that you wouldn’t get given the National Dex without showing some competence and initiative by catching Pokémon for Oak. Besides, 60 Pokémon isn’t really that many. It’s still annoying though and the way they handled Gen 2 evos pre-Nat Dex was baaaad.


Speaking of the Pokédex, I’m not sure if this counts as an unpopular opinion, but I think every Pokédex should work more like in DPPt (especially Platinum). Sinnoh is unique among the regions because every Pokémon in its regional dex can be ‘Seen’ if you explore the region fully, battling every trainer and completing every special encounter (e.g. legendaries, Rotom, the Manaphy book I guess?). In my ideal world there would’ve been a trainer with a Rotom and the lake guardians would have been added to the Dex after the Spear Pillar/Distortion World, but overall I really like the idea that you can get a full catalogue of the species in the region before you start catching ‘em all.

I’m sure many people prefer having a few mysteries you have to find for yourself in the wild, like RSE Chimecho or 30% of the new Pokémon introduced in GSC, but to me it makes sense to reward a player who explores and battles other trainers with knowledge. It also helps to tie the Pokédex quest with the Pokémon League challenge, conceptually. Rowan and a few other NPCs even make reference to this idea, that getting stronger expands your horizons, giving you access to areas with stronger trainers and a wider variety of Pokémon, thus helping to fill up the Pokédex.
 
Speaking of the Pokédex, I’m not sure if this counts as an unpopular opinion, but I think every Pokédex should work more like in DPPt (especially Platinum). Sinnoh is unique among the regions because every Pokémon in its regional dex can be ‘Seen’ if you explore the region fully, battling every trainer and completing every special encounter (e.g. legendaries, Rotom, the Manaphy book I guess?). In my ideal world there would’ve been a trainer with a Rotom and the lake guardians would have been added to the Dex after the Spear Pillar/Distortion World, but overall I really like the idea that you can get a full catalogue of the species in the region before you start catching ‘em all.

I’m sure many people prefer having a few mysteries you have to find for yourself in the wild, like RSE Chimecho or 30% of the new Pokémon introduced in GSC, but to me it makes sense to reward a player who explores and battles other trainers with knowledge. It also helps to tie the Pokédex quest with the Pokémon League challenge, conceptually. Rowan and a few other NPCs even make reference to this idea, that getting stronger expands your horizons, giving you access to areas with stronger trainers and a wider variety of Pokémon, thus helping to fill up the Pokédex.

Agreed, the Sinnoh dex never bothered me since I like battling every trainer and checking everything (which is how you get the Manaphy entry) so I received the Nat dex and access to the Battle Zone right away.
 
Not an unpopular opinion :P but:
The Sinnoh games are the best; Gen 4 is the best Gen.

It's the generation I remember most fondly and I probably sank more hours in to my copy of Pearl than any other Pokemon game.
It could be "tinted lens" but I recall Sinnoh being both large and dense, and there was quite a lot of optional content (eg. getting Heatran).
We also got a 3rd game (Platinum) and remakes (HG/SS) in that generation, which introduced Rotom formes and gave many Pokemon new moves.

I also had Pokemon Battle Revolution (Wii) and trained Pokemon in Pearl to use online in PBR random battles.
Looking back, I think Gen 4 represented the height of my interest in the series.
A number of Pokemon I like both in terms of design and utility in battle were introduced or "got good" in Gen 4.
Examples are Empoleon, Scizor (Bullet Punch), Garchomp, Hippowdown, Kingdra (Outrage).
 
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Then why did you post it here

I was being sarcastic (hence the :P)
How am I supposed to know what other people like?

I guess I could do a poll first to find out if the opinion is genuinely unpopular?
Then if it proves to be unpopular enough I can go ahead and post?

But I didn't think we were being that persnickety here since it's all in good fun.
It's my opinion. Whether it's unpopular or not is up to others.

(Edited to be a bit less caustic, but yeah ... unnecessary response Yung Dramps.)
(I clicked your reply in notifications expecting a comment on the post but got a comment on whether I should post.)
 
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deluge & Yung Dramps:
Let us not fight, if anything I think we all got our messages mixed.

I think Yung Dramps was mostly kidding, joking around how this is the unpopular opinion thread yet you started with saying your opinion isn't unpopular. Think a wink, nudge, or similar silly face would have helped get the idea across. :blobnom::psysly::mehowth:

That all said, you've actually missed a few pages deluge as liking Gen IV is actually an unpopular opinion. While you liked the maps a lot of people had problems with how many HMs you needed to traverse it, especially Mt. Coronet which had a neat concept (a central hub location you needed to travel through several times to reach new routes and cities) but handled poorly by needing half a team worth of HM users to do it possibly limiting your team choice. There was also how slow the game was with battles and movement speed. Remember a major feature of Platinum was that they doubled the speed of surfing! Would be exciting if they did Sinnoh remakes using all the new advancements they introduced these past few gens... of course that could be exactly why they aren't as they would have to completely redo Mt. Coronet without HMs preventing progress not to mention feeling obligated to mush in that gens gimmick. They've already stated Dynamax was being kept in Galar so hopefully Gen 9 will give Sinnoh remakes a better shot being made, meanwhile GF experiments with the Wild Area to maybe see if they can't just make any route into one (I've been playing Isle of Armor recently and there are times I keep forgetting that I'm technically in a Wild Area).

Battle Revolution I do think is underappreciated. If you think about it it's essentially a Battle Frontier expansion. However what held it back was it being sold for full Wii game price and then being compared to the previous N64 Stadium games which had additional content like mini-games & being able to emulate the game onto a TV screen (though not sure if the emulation would have been possible, but the mini-games certainly would).

Gen IV was a major game changer by being the gen that introduced the Physical-Special split and thus also requiring many well known Pokemon moves being introduced in order to fill in voids that split has caused. It also caused a major change in the meta as Pokemon lost vital moves, gained new ones, or rediscovered old moves it could not take advantage of.

Anyway, how about my own "opinion-I'm-not-sure-is-unpopular-but-there's-no-other-thread-this-fits-in". OINSIUBTNOTTFI for short:

I think the Isle or Armor did the Wild Area concept WAY better than the main game.
As I mentioned above, while playing through Isle of Armor I completely forget at points that I'm playing in what is all a Wild Area. There's multiple environments, additional pathways and caves, buildings that can entered, and more NPCs that can be interacted with. Isle of Armor may be smaller than the mainland's Wild Area but it still puts it to shame for all that it was able to cram in and making exploring it actually fun!
 
I think the Isle or Armor did the Wild Area concept WAY better than the main game.
As I mentioned above, while playing through Isle of Armor I completely forget at points that I'm playing in what is all a Wild Area. There's multiple environments, additional pathways and caves, buildings that can entered, and more NPCs that can be interacted with. Isle of Armor may be smaller than the mainland's Wild Area but it still puts it to shame for all that it was able to cram in and making exploring it actually fun!

Yeah I think this is a pretty popular sentiment on the whole. From what I've seen of Isle of Armor and from what I've heard from those who've played through it themselves it's essentially an upgrade over the Wild Area in every conceivable aspect, from map design to how Pokemon act in the overworld (e.g. Emolga flying through trees and the infamous hella speedy Sharpedos) to just the breadth and variety of stuff to do in there. I've even seem some people who weren't a fan of the base game going so far as to suggest this is what it should have been from day 1. Either way the improvement between these two attempts at open-world design is palpable and it kinda makes me wish they'd make a free update or even a smaller $5 DLC to upgrade the base Wild Area to be at this standard.
 
For me, Gen 4 was boom-or-bust. Its greatest moments were some of the best in the series, but at its worst, it was among the lowest of the low. Team Galactic is a prime example here: Cyrus himself is one of the best villains in the series, what with his disturbing motivations and antisocial personality (especially in Platinum). But as for the rest of his team? One of the worst collections of Grunts and Admins in franchise history after Team Flare. Basically, most of them are just a bunch of mindless fanboys/fangirls and even borderline simps who gawk over Cyrus because reasons. I could easily see Mars or Jupiter telling him "Yes Master, stick your Red Chain in my Distortion World portal!" (Ugh, shoot me now).

As for just about everything else in DPP, I can essentially make that same comparison (other than the region itself, which you can see my thoughts on here).
 
For me, Gen 4 was boom-or-bust. Its greatest moments were some of the best in the series, but at its worst, it was among the lowest of the low. Team Galactic is a prime example here: Cyrus himself is one of the best villains in the series, what with his disturbing motivations and antisocial personality (especially in Platinum). But as for the rest of his team? One of the worst collections of Grunts and Admins in franchise history after Team Flare. Basically, most of them are just a bunch of mindless fanboys/fangirls and even borderline simps who gawk over Cyrus because reasons. I could easily see Mars or Jupiter telling him "Yes Master, stick your Red Chain in my Distortion World portal!" (Ugh, shoot me now).

As for just about everything else in DPP, I can essentially make that same comparison (other than the region itself, which you can see my thoughts on here).

I think that's the point with Team Galactic: a mindless mob that would do any ridiculous crime in order to "change the universe". Mars and Jupiter act like a bunch of valley girls while Saturn is the only one that shares the passion of his boss (at least before the postgame) and Charon is just a sleazy person that sucks up to the admins to earn brownie points and when everything goes down, he unsuccesfully tries to liderate the team, abandoning its initial purpose and becoming another criminal organization just for the $$$. You don't even get to fight him...

However, Cyrus acknowledges this in Platinum. He knows that fact and manipulates them with pretty words in order for them to do his bidding, his speech at the HQ shows exactly that. After that he claims to you that he considers his minions imperfect for his new world, implying that he would abandon them and leave them to die when he reached his goal. Unlike Lysandre, who he broods and broods about how humanity is selfish and unsalvagable except for Team Flare....dude have you seen you own minions? Those jerks keep flaunting about their money and that they're outliving everyone now, and not a single moment of sympathy, except perhaps Xerosic in the postgame (and even then, I consider him a poor version of Colress). A total dissonance between Lysandre and Team Flare.
 
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Here's another possibly* unpopular opinion.
(*Disclaimer: I have not statistically verified that this opinion is actually unpopular, I just suspect that some people may disagree)

Opinion: In terms of design, Gen V was the last time we got a reasonably well-rounded and "good" trio of starters.

Exhibit: The final-stage starters from Kanto forwards
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Starter_Pokémon#Base_stat_comparison_when_fully_evolved

At first I found it difficult to pinpoint why I felt this way because I didn't think the later starters were always bad Pokemon designs, per se.

It took me a while to realize that the reason I liked later starters less was not because they were all "terrible" but because they seemed over-designed. We're used to very elaborately designed legendaries because they are powerful and (canonically) unique Pokemon. Yet it feels less appropriate to me when that design philosophy is applied towards starters. I think the starters should have a sense of being blank slates that grow with you throughout your journey. However, later starters have oddly specialized designs. It follows from that, that I'm usually OK with the relatively simple first starter stages. When they lose me, it's usually the third stage design that does it.

There were hints of the later starter design approach in Gen V, which was my cutoff point. Emboar was obviously inspired by sumo wrestlers, while Serperior was royalty and Samurott was a Samurai. However, the designs weren't uniformly anthropomorphic since Samurott was often seen in quadrupedal poses and Serperior was limbless. This helped to round out the trio somewhat and mask any uncanny "humanity", which is fine for oddballs like Mr. Mime and Jynx but seems less appropriate for starters that every player is given.

Fast forward to Gen VI and we see the tendencies hinted at in Gen V intensified. All three final stage designs are basically anthropomorphic, Delphox uncannily so. That is the only starter design I dislike viscerally (apologies to Delphox fans). While Chesnaught is OK on its own and Greninja is quite nice, taken as a trio there is a lack of variety. They all combine some animal inspiration with a blatantly human role (astronaut, oracle and ninja). This repeats again in Gen VII (archer, wrestler and opera singer) and Gen VIII (drummer, soccer player and spy). In this latest generation they're also more anthropomorphic than ever, as a trio.

I don't like this approach for starters. How can they intensify it further? Just use photos of celebrities? I'd love a generation where they return to giving us three creatures that evolve into more awesome creatures. I'm not totally opposed to human-like Pokemon designs but starters have special prominence because all players get one and they set the tone. It's Pocket Monsters after all, not Pocket Kids who want to grow up to be firefighters, policemen and pilots.

I'm going to elect president Phantump to Make Animals Great Again :P
 
Here's another possibly* unpopular opinion.
(*Disclaimer: I have not statistically verified that this opinion is actually unpopular, I just suspect that some people may disagree)

Opinion: In terms of design, Gen V was the last time we got a reasonably well-rounded and "good" trio of starters.
I agree w the sentiment but I think that this started as early as sinnoh, even though I do like those designs.
 
Basically, most of them are just a bunch of mindless fanboys/fangirls and even borderline simps who gawk over Cyrus because reasons.

I think there’s a healthy mix of grunts who are awestruck by Cyrus’ intelligence and technological expertise and grunts who are more self-interested, following Cyrus because they believe he’s giving them the opportunity to be part of the ruling class of a new world with near-limitless resources. I don’t think any of them can really be called simps.

I could easily see Mars or Jupiter telling him "Yes Master, stick your Red Chain in my Distortion World portal!" (Ugh, shoot me now).

Instead of expressing mock disgust at yourself after writing something weird and unsettling, you do have the option of simply deleting the weird thing. Just a heads-up!

I wondered if I’d missed something in their dialogue that made them seem so awful to you, so I looked through their quotes on Bulbapedia and didn’t find anything that weird? They call their boss ‘Master Cyrus’ like some of the grunts do, but aside from that I didn’t see anything that suggested they were unhealthily fixated on Cyrus.

Mars says she’s going to find him in the Distortion World after you beat her at Stark Mountain in Platinum, which is a pretty huge undertaking, admittedly. However, given that she never saw him slip into insanity or heard him reveal his true intentions for the new world, it kinda makes sense that she’d want to save her boss from being trapped in an alternate dimension forever?

I don’t want to defend Team Galactic too much because there’s lots of stuff that isn’t developed or explained super well with them, but I find it weird how much intense criticism I see Mars and Jupiter get specifically when they don’t even say or do that much.
 
The Isle of Armor's wild area is much better than the base game's, but I'm not sure how they can implement these improvements next gen. As long as we have Dexit, the games need to have this huge regional dex to satisfy the playerbase, and with the number of routes and dungeons drastically reduced in full 3d they basically have to shove them all awkwardly into the wild area. IMO the reason the original wild area is so empty and bland is because otherwise the 37 different weather conditions would have been even more immersion-breaking (as it stands they are second only to the pop-in lmao). With a drastically reduced number of 'mons in the DLC they can put in more fully realized biomes and generally make the distribution of wild encounters feel more organic.

Incidentally, to push this into "unpop opinion" territory, I tend to find huge regional dexes detrimental to my opinion of a game. Especially XY which I often see praised for its wide, early selection of 'mons that enables diverse ingame teams. While it is pretty funny that basically everyone first ran through DP with the same team, I think the Kalos region (and the new 'mons introduced there — it doesn't help that there were so few of them) ends up having very little identity of its own because of the huge number of encounters shoved into every route, and I often find myself looking up where certain 'mons spawn when replaying while I basically know the encounter tables of older games by heart. Very few of the new 'mons are properly showcased by their areas: off the top of my head, I like Flabébé as an introduction to the different colored flowers, Honedge on the path to Parfum Palace (although the palace itself should have been a dungeon and Honedge available inside it, fight me), Carbink in Reflection Cave, and the Goomy line in the swampy routes. Otherwise most of the new 'mons are swallowed up in an avalanche of encounters and most of the routes end up feeling a bit nondescript to me. In comparison something like Route 113 in Hoenn is just burned into my brain, and I think how unique that route and its encounter table are is why a lot of people misremember Skarmory being a gen 3 pokemon. Same deal with Slugma in the Fiery Path although that has more to do with poor availability in GSC. But in general I feel like these encounter tables are things past games really paid more attention to — for example, remember when they made a distinction between fresh and salt water pokemon? You spend the early to midgame mainly with river or lake-based water pokemon, and when you reach the sea suddenly you encounter cool new 'mons like Jellicent in Undella Town or Wailmer in Lilycove or Mantyke in Sunyshore. In Hoenn they even introduced a distinction with "deep sea" pokemon like Relicanth and Clamperl. I know it sounds silly and horribly nitpicky but I was very disappointed when a Mantine just randomly popped up in the Lake of Outrage.

This preference of mine is also why I think dexnav is the single best, most immersive encounter method they've thought up to expand the number of available 'mons, far better than the often robotic and awkward overworld encounters of the switch games. The dexnav allows you to preserve a strong sense of route identity, while also spicing up the small list of naturally occurring pokemon with additional, exclusive encounters. Basically the pokeradar done right.
 
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