Unpopular opinions

[pokemon4eva]

The Pokémon Adventures DP arc has an interesting take on Team Galactic. The grunts are very....off, almost like they were stripped of all emotions. When they act, they do so with very precise coordination, almost like they were robots, in that way they seem to fit Cyrus' ideals of perfection. I don't remember any of them speaking a word except for the Advanced Grunt.

SPOILER

And he was being mind controlled by another entity.

Then there's the Commanders, whose personalities were shifted in order to serve as foils to the protagonists (the anime also did this but it's more subtle). Mars now acts silly and childish, Saturn is more egocentric and prone to anger, Jupiter is very cold and the most tactical and powerful of the three (fitting, considering Jupiter is the biggest planet in the Solar System).

Cyrus still has pretty much the same characteristics that makes him a great villain imo, except with this being a graphic novel we get to see his hammiest moments in bigger fashion.

SPOILER

He redeems in the Platinum arc and gets a cute moment with Shaymin. Kinda funny that he also redeems in USUM, almost a decade after this manga.

Charon sill takes leadership after Cyrus' fall but is now more obsessed with the power of Legendaries than just doing it for the money. He actually succeeds in capturing Heatran and a couple more legends, being much more of a threat while still being the same coward from the games.

Overall, I'd say this depiction of Team Galactic explores its members pretty well, taking an evil team I already like and making them even better.

I was only going to talk about how creepy the grunts are here, and that would've worked better than the generic grunts from the games but then I wanted to talk about the entire organization.

 

[AquaticPanic]

Not counting RBY and GSC (Because it'd be sorta unfair imo to compare them as games with more recent ones, they just did not age well)
Diamond and Pearl (Not counting Platinum) is seriously one of the worst games of the franchise, for 2 main reasons: Everything is slow and the dex for no reason is severely limited to just 151 mons overall.

The first point just damages gameplay experience a little, it's annoying but you can at least get around. Doesn't make it fun tho, a lot of battles take forever to end just because everything from animations to HP dropping were slow. Also surfing was very very slow as well. Aside from that there were arbitrary ways to slow you down too, with Fog doing absolutely nothing interesting other than make you miss more which just makes battles drag on for longer, those mud piles that do nothing other than get you stuck til you mash buttons to get out, and the snow route. None of these things make for an enjoyable experience imo, specially since the last 3 don't add anything other than slowing you down and wasting your time

The dex limitation tho, is a huge flaw. Sinnoh did this really cool thing where it added a lot of evolutions to older mons. So why the actual hell does Diamond and Pearl just... not have them at all? I don't see the point in adding evos to Magmar, Togetic, Lickitung, etc if most of those can't even be caught in game. A lot of people joke about how their DP teams were mostly similar, but that's less so because of people liking the mons available, moreso because DP barely gives you options (Just compare people's Platinum teams instead - they are a lot more varied because the game allows them to have variety in the first place). Not only that but the pokemon that are available are still not all very accessible. Not counting the few ones that are locked behind the postgame, you still have some pokemon locked behind specific days or times, ones that require an in-game event to be completed, ones that you can only get by a very late game egg that even after you hatch you'd have to get friendship up and level it all the way from lvl 1, mons locked behing that terrible terrible marsh, mons locked in that weird unown cave and lastly the ones on the honey trees which are not very user-friendly to get when the trees themselves take a pretty long while to spawn a pokemon, and you can't even be sure if the one that spawns is the one you want (Not even mentioning Munchlax here)

Not only as this affects the main appeal of pokemon - everyone getting their own personal team depending on what mons they like most - it also affects boss design. A lot of gym leaders and E4 in DP have pretty boring teams because the pokemon variety is very small and doesn't allow them to have many choices since they are already type-locked. Sure you have the classic Flint meme of using non-fire mons in his team, but there's also Volkner with half his team not being Electric and Candice with medicham. And sure type variety is nice, but when that isn't a game design choice but rather having to work around a previously stablished dex, it kinda showcases that the dex itself is not good.

Lastly there's just some personal complaints I have with the games itself. The two above are objective flaws (Still up to you wether they are flaws that bother you or not tho), but the rest of this paragraph is just my opinion on a few things from the games. I don't think Barry nor Cyrus have any meaningful arc in DP; most of Cyrus' good moments are in the Distortion World and DP doesn't have that. Meanwhile Barry just... doesn't really go through any development, really. My other complaint is that the level curve at the end of the game is absolutely horrible. At the victory road, the highest level you'll face is 49. Even then, the trainers in the Victory Road with a high level mon usually only have a single one. Then from that you go straight into the league where there's 5 mons ranging from 53 to 57, only getting worse at each member til the last one starts at 59 and ends at 63. And after that is Cynthia, who starts already at 60 and has her ace at 66. Sure we all have heard the jokes about Cynthia being difficult - and to an extent that is still partially credit to her team being very well balanced - but part of that also comes from the fact she will always be around 10 or more levels higher than you. Don't get me wrong, I do like difficulty in Pokemon games, but this just isn't a very good game design, specially when there is absolutely no good and reliable way of grinding for levels at that point in the game. You are basically forced to face trainers who will for the most part have higher level than you and there isn't much you can do about it. It's a terrible way to cap off the game and a sincerely terrible way of designing boss fights

Platinum really saved Sinnoh from most of this by a few speed increases in some areas and most importantly by having an actually good dex. If it hadn't been for Platinum, I'd genuinely think Gen 4 would be the worst gen. As it stands right now tho, at least 1 of the 3 Sinnoh games is pretty enjoyable

 

[DreamPrince]

Not counting RBY and GSC (Because it'd be sorta unfair imo to compare them as games with more recent ones, they just did not age well)
Diamond and Pearl (Not counting Platinum) is seriously one of the worst games of the franchise, for 2 main reasons: Everything is slow and the dex for no reason is severely limited to just 151 mons overall.

The first point just damages gameplay experience a little, it's annoying but you can at least get around. Doesn't make it fun tho, a lot of battles take forever to end just because everything from animations to HP dropping were slow. Also surfing was very very slow as well. Aside from that there were arbitrary ways to slow you down too, with Fog doing absolutely nothing interesting other than make you miss more which just makes battles drag on for longer, those mud piles that do nothing other than get you stuck til you mash buttons to get out, and the snow route. None of these things make for an enjoyable experience imo, specially since the last 3 don't add anything other than slowing you down and wasting your time

The dex limitation tho, is a huge flaw. Sinnoh did this really cool thing where it added a lot of evolutions to older mons. So why the actual hell does Diamond and Pearl just... not have them at all? I don't see the point in adding evos to Magmar, Togetic, Lickitung, etc if most of those can't even be caught in game. A lot of people joke about how their DP teams were mostly similar, but that's less so because of people liking the mons available, moreso because DP barely gives you options (Just compare people's Platinum teams instead - they are a lot more varied because the game allows them to have variety in the first place). Not only that but the pokemon that are available are still not all very accessible. Not counting the few ones that are locked behind the postgame, you still have some pokemon locked behind specific days or times, ones that require an in-game event to be completed, ones that you can only get by a very late game egg that even after you hatch you'd have to get friendship up and level it all the way from lvl 1, mons locked behing that terrible terrible marsh, mons locked in that weird unown cave and lastly the ones on the honey trees which are not very user-friendly to get when the trees themselves take a pretty long while to spawn a pokemon, and you can't even be sure if the one that spawns is the one you want (Not even mentioning Munchlax here)

Not only as this affects the main appeal of pokemon - everyone getting their own personal team depending on what mons they like most - it also affects boss design. A lot of gym leaders and E4 in DP have pretty boring teams because the pokemon variety is very small and doesn't allow them to have many choices since they are already type-locked. Sure you have the classic Flint meme of using non-fire mons in his team, but there's also Volkner with half his team not being Electric and Candice with medicham. And sure type variety is nice, but when that isn't a game design choice but rather having to work around a previously stablished dex, it kinda showcases that the dex itself is not good.

Lastly there's just some personal complaints I have with the games itself. The two above are objective flaws (Still up to you wether they are flaws that bother you or not tho), but the rest of this paragraph is just my opinion on a few things from the games. I don't think Barry nor Cyrus have any meaningful arc in DP; most of Cyrus' good moments are in the Distortion World and DP doesn't have that. Meanwhile Barry just... doesn't really go through any development, really. My other complaint is that the level curve at the end of the game is absolutely horrible. At the victory road, the highest level you'll face is 49. Even then, the trainers in the Victory Road with a high level mon usually only have a single one. Then from that you go straight into the league where there's 5 mons ranging from 53 to 57, only getting worse at each member til the last one starts at 59 and ends at 63. And after that is Cynthia, who starts already at 60 and has her ace at 66. Sure we all have heard the jokes about Cynthia being difficult - and to an extent that is still partially credit to her team being very well balanced - but part of that also comes from the fact she will always be around 10 or more levels higher than you. Don't get me wrong, I do like difficulty in Pokemon games, but this just isn't a very good game design, specially when there is absolutely no good and reliable way of grinding for levels at that point in the game. You are basically forced to face trainers who will for the most part have higher level than you and there isn't much you can do about it. It's a terrible way to cap off the game and a sincerely terrible way of designing boss fights

Platinum really saved Sinnoh from most of this by a few speed increases in some areas and most importantly by having an actually good dex. If it hadn't been for Platinum, I'd genuinely think Gen 4 would be the worst gen. As it stands right now tho, at least 1 of the 3 Sinnoh games is pretty enjoyable

Yeah, I think the general consensus is that DP haven't aged that well, and even hardcore Sinnoh fans ( Myself Included ) will agree that Platinum outclasses DP in literally every way. That being said, I don't think its wrong for DP to have these flaws. If anything they served as a good testing ground for future games, which was shown by progression of Gen 4: Platinum fixed the majority of DP's problems, like the expanded regional dex and surfing speed, while HGSS made Saving much faster. When Gen 5 was being designed, balance of types was taken a lot more delicately than before, like chasing Stunfisk's type to Ground to have a better of balance of types. As of BW2, all regional dexes have had least 300 Pokemon to compensate more balance of types. HMs were removed in SM, and long dungeons no longer exist in SwSh. They were also first to allow transfer from previous games, which became a staple despite being monetized in the future. Really, Programming is the only thing that hasn't improved since DP.

Speaking of, while do think its perfectly acceptable to criticize DP for its slow engine, I do think it is misplaced to a degree if one does not attribute it to the rest of the series.

GF can't Program games properly:

• RGB- Lots of glitches like Mew and Missing No.
• GS- Had to get Iwata in order to successfully program the games on cartridge including Kanto
• DP- Already been discussed.
• 3DS Games- Framerate drops happen whenever multiple Pokemon appear in battles, notably Doubles and Triples resulting in lag when these formats were played, the aforementioned formats were removed in Gen 7.
• SwSh- Too many to list, but the game pauses and freezes when connected online in the Wild Area/IOA, notable frame rate drops as well, and tons of bugs like being able to see hacked raids or prematurely releasing the Crowned Tundra items.
• Bank and Home have had their share of bugs, with Bank being delayed after launch, or Home's Zeraora being recognized as a hack while transferring Pokemon that don't exist in SwSh's coding.

I understand that a lot of these are not as nearly as bad as DP, but they still are bad and really show how incompetent GF is at programming despite being more than 2 Decades old.

About Cyrus, your right- Cyrus was very shallow in DP: Tamashii Hiroka explains in her big fat review of DP, which she is not a fan of, why Cyrus sucks in DP. While address the slowness and lack of fire types, her main criticism in the pacing:

Spoiler Alert

She commends Platinum for fixing Cyrus's problems like explaining his ambitions as well more interaction with grunts. The Conclusion of the video is: If you wanna play Sinnoh, play Platinum.

Finally, while DP are Tamashii's least favorite games, GSC are her favorite, and she goes out of her way to explain and defend GSC, biggest problems like the level curve.

Instead of treating GSC as a Pokemon game, treat them like a JRPG, specifically DragonQuest 3, which was a favorite for Satoshi and Sugimori. Some points include how they are so many daily events like Bug Catching Contest and Apricorns, and the game actually encouraging talking to all the NPCs, with PokeGear being a pretty good example. Tamashii really praises the use of HMs in the games as a way to encourage non-linear exploration, with areas like Whirl Islands, Ruins of Alph, Dark Cave, and Tin Tower being areas that are optional, but are great way to test out surfing.

 

[Miilanda]

I think it is kinda funny to see how people rate a generation differently.

To me all generations are great, except Gen 5 (which I will ''explain'' later). I have different, good memories from each of the generations.
For instance I see many do not like Gen 4 because of it's story, villains, slow pace, and/or lack of Pokémon. I havn't played these games since ages, so I have to be honest that I don't remember much of Gen 4, but what I did enjoy about Gen 4 is simple: playing together online. It was the first game that offered to play online with people all over the world and I think that was a HUGE thing for Pokémon. It was the reason I made an account on Smogon and I have made some friends over different other online platforms. I don't remember it being slow... In fact my Pokémon Diamond is the only Pokémon game I have with 999+ hours of gameplay. Sure, the online function has nothing much to do with the game/story of Gen 4 itself, but for me it is the reason why Gen 4 was great and memorable. I would love to see a remake of it.

Coming back to Gen 5. I simply dislike Gen 5 with a passion, because of the graphics. I didn't enjoy playing this whole game. It was annoying to me to see the Pokémon moving so awkwardly in the battles and Castelia City was a thorn in the eye as the city was divided in different ''maps'' (not sure how to explain this). Last but not least, in my opinion the worst Pokémon designs were added in Gen 5: all starters including their evolution, Trubish/Garbodor, Patrat/Watchog, you know what, never mind, too many for me to list... xD But if I am correct I think most people like Gen 5 for the story, but correct me if I am wrong. It is the only generation of which I do not have good memories.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

Non-exhaustive list of things I like about Gen 5:

• The story
• The lore around some of the legendary Pokemon, mainly Reshiram and Zekrom*
• I agree that it includes the worst Pokemon designs, but there are also some very good ones like the Blitzle, Sandile, and Litwick families
  • This includes a number of wonderfully weird ones like Sigilyph, Stunfisk, and Cryogonal
• My all-time favourite starter, the much-disrespected Snivy

*Despite literally being white and black respectively, they mostly avoid the kind of in-your-face symbolism that I didn't especially like about Dialga and Palkia in the previous gen, and instead use a kind of symbolism that's a bit more vague and open to interpretation. They're presented as opposites, but it's well-established that they don't need to oppose to each other, and all the "truth" vs. "ideals" stuff can be (and is) spun pretty flexibly.

Anyway, I've posted it somewhere before, but here's my rough main series game tier list:

Tiermaker

Remakes in general were hard to place, and all of them could move up a tier.

 

[Mova]

I really like how you placed only DP and Pikavee in C, and none are in that D rank, considering they're not exactly bad games. They are just outclassed by better games, such as Platinum, FRLG, and whatever else is also great.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Despite the greater emphasis on Kanto Pokemon overall I still genuinely believe regional variants overall have received better distribution than Mega Evolutions. This mainly comes down to the fact that unlike Megas there are significantly less instances of these forms being given to already very good/popular Pokemon who clearly don't need a buff or reimagining to stay relevant. We all know the story with Megas: Mewtwo, Gengar, Tyranitar, Metagross, Rayquaza, Scizor and more, for all the genuine shitmons that got a refresh there were plenty of already popular and/or strong mons who got frontloaded for fanservice. Meanwhile, despite being Gen 1 only, every single Alolan form was for a Pokemon that genuinely needed it both on a popularity and a competitive standpoint, the only Pokemon in that batch you can maybe argue were done primarily for fanservice are Ninetales and Marowak and even then both of them (ESPECIALLY Marowak) certainly needed a buff for battle. As for Galarian forms this mostly stays true with Pokemon like Obstagoon and Galarian Weezing, but now there are admittedly a couple of seemingly "questionable" choices. I'm mainly referring to Slowbro and Zapdos, the first two RVs for Pokemon already in OU. But even with those cases there's a few things that makes them far more reasonable than the aforementioned fanservice Megas. For starters as I recently discussed in a Little things you like post these forms make a far more visible effort to be functionally unique from the originals than things like Mewtwo Y, Tyranitar or Scizor ever did. There's also the matter of some these Pokemon's counterparts: Slowking has been considered a weird sidegrade to Slowbro at best and outright inferior at worst since its debut as well as getting horrendously shafted by Mega Evolution while Moltres and Articuno have typically been pretty mediocre, the latter in particular being one of the all-time posterchildren for bad Legendaries. These Pokemon do need a retool, something new to make them stand out, and yet it'd also be weird to leave their counterparts out (imagine Galarian Slowpoke evolving into Slowking-G but also normal Slowbro. Also Galarian Zapdos just not existing even though the other two birds changed to live in Galar) so hey, why not. After these two cases the next most unnecessary RV is probably Darmanitan, and that's less of a case of the base form not being a buff and more a case of said buff being a bit overtuned.

 

[Sonikku A]

Despite the greater emphasis on Kanto Pokemon overall I still genuinely believe regional variants overall have received better distribution than Mega Evolutions. This mainly comes down to the fact that unlike Megas there are significantly less instances of these forms being given to already very good/popular Pokemon who clearly don't need a buff or reimagining to stay relevant. We all know the story with Megas: Mewtwo, Gengar, Tyranitar, Metagross, Rayquaza, Scizor and more, for all the genuine shitmons that got a refresh there were plenty of already popular and/or strong mons who got frontloaded for fanservice. Meanwhile, despite being Gen 1 only, every single Alolan form was for a Pokemon that genuinely needed it both on a popularity and a competitive standpoint, the only Pokemon in that batch you can maybe argue were done primarily for fanservice are Ninetales and Marowak and even then both of them (ESPECIALLY Marowak) certainly needed a buff for battle. As for Galarian forms this mostly stays true with Pokemon like Obstagoon and Galarian Weezing, but now there are admittedly a couple of seemingly "questionable" choices. I'm mainly referring to Slowbro and Zapdos, the first two RVs for Pokemon already in OU. But even with those cases there's a few things that makes them far more reasonable than the aforementioned fanservice Megas. For starters as I recently discussed in a Little things you like post these forms make a far more visible effort to be functionally unique from the originals than things like Mewtwo Y, Tyranitar or Scizor ever did. There's also the matter of some these Pokemon's counterparts: Slowking has been considered a weird sidegrade to Slowbro at best and outright inferior at worst since its debut as well as getting horrendously shafted by Mega Evolution while Moltres and Articuno have typically been pretty mediocre, the latter in particular being one of the all-time posterchildren for bad Legendaries. These Pokemon do need a retool, something new to make them stand out, and yet it'd also be weird to leave their counterparts out (imagine Galarian Slowpoke evolving into Slowking-G but also normal Slowbro. Also Galarian Zapdos just not existing even though the other two birds changed to live in Galar) so hey, why not. After these two cases the next most unnecessary RV is probably Darmanitan, and that's less of a case of the base form not being a buff and more a case of said buff being a bit overtuned.

Bare in mind most regional variants barely affect tier placement. And if they do there's legitimately no reason to use the OG ones. Especially if the regional variant gets new evos (Farfetch'd, Linoone, Mr. Mime)
Honestly I don't think this is a good way buffing. This is more making a replacement that's slightly better. If they wanted the OG mon to no longer be poor, just buff its stats/ability/move pool. I just don't like regional variants as a result

 

[Pikachu315111]

Despite the greater emphasis on Kanto Pokemon overall I still genuinely believe regional variants overall have received better distribution than Mega Evolutions. This mainly comes down to the fact that unlike Megas there are significantly less instances of these forms being given to already very good/popular Pokemon who clearly don't need a buff or reimagining to stay relevant.

While true, there's also the fact both mechanics were focused on doing different things (and none were really about getting weaker Pokemon up-to-speed with better Pokemon).

Mega Evolution was strictly for fully evolved Pokemon, said to be "evolution beyond evolution". That right there I think pretty much decided most decision what Pokemon got it: if you're going to introduce the Pokemon version of going Super Saiyan you're going to pick popular Pokemon. Now there were the odd choices here and there, likely these choices being staff favorites and/or needing to fill a Type gap and looking through the Pokemon of those Types and picking a few they think they could get a good design from. I bet you now in the Pokemon Vault there's probably a few dozen beta Mega Pokemon designs, a handful for each Type. Same probably true for Gigantamax.

As for Regional Variants, they already have a leg up as the whole entire family line could be given the new form thus allowing for a smoother design flow (a Mega Pokemon's design (as well for any cross gen evolution) is somewhat limited by what the base Pokemon has established). Regional Variants first and foremost served to fill in Type gaps, instead of creating a whole new Pokemon they give an old Pokemon a twist. However I imagine what Pokemon get a regional form probably takes longer to pick, infact this could be why Alola was kept to Gen I to serve as a test group. With the test successful they've now moved onto other gens, probably first thinking up a needed Pokemon and then going "let's make this a regional variant" and finding a Pokemon that best matches the new concept. Thinking about it the Galarian Variants all feel they have a definite theme to them while Alola it was just the normal Pokemon but now its a different Type.

The change to trials in Alola was one of the best things for the series, gym leaders are a tired concept and are some of the worst bosses in video games after having basically no changes for 20+ years.

Except, to me, Trials were just Gyms but re-skinned. You first go through a dungeon with puzzles & battles to solve, then you battle a major boss at the end, and after that you get a symbol of victory. It's the same routine but slightly changed up. And sometimes I don't feel the trials were all that interesting:

• Ilima's Trial: Defeat two Pokemon hiding in their den to then fight the Totem Pokemon. Only challenge is that the second one is moving to different dens, but instead of coming up with a solution Team Skull interrupt and then unknowingly help you by blocking the other two dens. You just end up walking around in a loop inside a cave doing a few battles.
• Lana's Trial: You just rode up to splashing water, battled, and kept moving down Brooklet Hill until you reach the bottom where you battle the Totem Pokemon.
• Kiawe's Trial: If you don't count going up the volcano as part of the trial, which itself was just a looping path with battles, while at first there may have been a hint of a puzzle it just all turns out to be a joke in the end with the difference between the dances being obvious. It's certainly a funny twist on things, especially with how serious Kiawe is, but it just turns to a gauntlet battle at that point with the Totem Pokemon at the end.
• Mallow's Trial: First one to actually present a bit of a puzzle. You have to look around Lush Jungle to find the ingredients, doing some quick battles before giving Mallow all the ingredients to attract the Totem Pokemon.
• Sophocles' Trial: Now in SM it was just a gauntlet battle before facing the Totem Pokemon. USUM changed the Trial so that there was a puzzle element forming a circuit with Charjabug (then having to do some battles between steps), nothing too complex but a puzzle is still a puzzle.
• Acerola's Trial: At first it seems like there's a puzzle element with going around taking pictures, but it's obvious what you need to take pictures of and it's really only Gengar that you need to take timing into account.
• Vast Poni Canyon Trial: It's just a straight line of battles. Supposed to be a call back to Ilima's but Ilima at least had you making some turns.
• Mina's Trial: Now this one was interesting though only because it was essentially a "victory lap" where you had to go see the other Captains (sometimes battling them) to get flower petals from them so Mina could make a mural that'll attract the Totem Pokemon.

While at first an interesting concept, I kind of felt the Trials were a step down from Gym Puzzles as there really wasn't a puzzle or the puzzle was kept simple whereas Gym Puzzles, usually the latter ones, got you more involved.

I will though agree the Totem Battles were more difficult than your typical Gym Battle... but then again there's also nothing saying they can't have a Gym Leader employ a similar tactic to "test challengers". Totem Pokemon were more challenging because they started battles with one or more stat boosts and are able to summon a partner while the player can only use one of their Pokemon. Now while I don't think a Gym Leader can get away with using two Pokemon while the player can only use one (though having Gym Battles be Double and/or Tag Battles would be an interesting change-up), I can imagine the Gym Leader being given a special technique that allows them to raise their Pokemon's stat. Or, maybe instead of the Gym Leader, the Gym battlefield itself does that giving the Gym Leader's Pokemon a built-in home field advantage. And not only could this be a stat increase, maybe the battle will start with a certain weather, terrain, room, or other field effect active. So while I give credit for Totems being the first to show how they could make battles more interesting, I don't think it's something that only the Totem Pokemon can do (with exception to them being able to call an SOS Pokemon for help and some clever double battle strategies).

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I can imagine the Gym Leader being given a special technique that allows them to raise their Pokemon's stat. Or, maybe instead of the Gym Leader, the Gym battlefield itself does that giving the Gym Leader's Pokemon a built-in home field advantage. And not only could this be a stat increase, maybe the battle will start with a certain weather, terrain, room, or other field effect active.

The last two generations have actually dabbled in this a bit. The fights in Opal's gym, including the one against Opal herself, ask the player questions that can raise or lower your stats depending on your answer. Then in Isle of Armor, Klara and Avery cheat at one point to start the battle with Toxic Spikes or Psychic Terrain. And then in Sun and Moon, the final battle against Lusamine sees each of her Pokemon get a stat boost.

 

[Miilanda]

Mega Evolution was strictly for fully evolved Pokemon... -snip- ... I bet you now in the Pokemon Vault there's probably a few dozen beta Mega Pokemon designs, a handful for each Type. Same probably true for Gigantamax.

Just my 2 cents, but for example someone at GF indeed said they also planned to give Flygon a Mega evolution, but they simply couldn´t come up with a good design due to an art block. Can´t find the article a.t.m.

Kiawe's Trial: If you don't count going up the volcano as part of the trial, which itself was just a looping path with battles, while at first there may have been a hint of a puzzle it just all turns out to be a joke in the end with the difference between the dances being obvious. It's certainly a funny twist on things, especially with how serious Kiawe is, but it just turns to a gauntlet battle at that point with the Totem Pokemon at the end.

This one certainly is funny... in a different way. I did this trial a few weeks ago with a underleveld team, with bad moves and mostly were weak to fire and because of that I had to redo this trial a few times. I noticed that the last question had answers that were all not applicable. In fact, at my last try of this trial I choose random answers that were certainly not correct to see what happen: unexpectedly, it says you are correct. In other words you can´t even fail this puzzle.

 

[aaronarium]

Wild Pokemon in the overworld is bad bad bad.

I get the appeal of wanting to see what you encounter before before you encounter it, but I'd make the argument that overworld Pokemon (besides special interactable ones) take away from the route design in a major way. Once you decide to have overworld 'mons, you have to design routes around the fact that a notable portion of them will be populated by obstacles that can be annoying to traverse. The developmental solution is to then make the routes more open concept so you aren't stepping on everyone's toes, but this means that routes cannot be as dense and "layered" as before.

None of the routes or dungeons in Galar are as complicated or fun to navigate as Kalos 18, Unova 20, Sinnoh 228, etc., and I don't even necessarily think that it's a product of dev laziness. If we were still in the sprite days, overworld Pokemon may have been a non-issue, since there are discrete squares they could be confined to, but the way things are now, I just consider them a big headache.

Part of me also wonders if HM removal could play a part in there being uncomplicated routes, but this isnt an "HMs good" post (though i do kind of unironically believe that).

 

[Ema Skye]

Maybe it's because I'm a Hoenn baby, but the physical-special split is one of the worst things to happen to Pokemon.

The type dictating damage category was so easy to remember. I know all Ground-moves are physical and all Dragon-moves are special. I don't need to look for another symbol to dictate the damage category in addition to the type.

Yes, there are some Pokemon that get screwed over pre-split (ex. Sneasel and Gengar have both STABs in their non-dominate offensive stat), but both of my examples still ended up being viable options in their RSE tiers they ended up in. The split also screws over as many Pokemon as it helps (yes, Mamossine does lose Ice Shard as a viable option, but now Glaceon gains it as such). And pre-split really makes some Pokemon unique, and gives some Pokemon niches that I would've liked to have seen further explored, instead of making them all homogenous. My core argument, beyond simplicity, is that pre-split gave individual Pokemon their own identities when compared to others of their type combination, and, as a result, forced them to be thoughtfully created to make them distinct. This is in contrast with later gens where, due to the split, everything can now be sorted into categorical archetypes, which exacerbates an identity crisis for so many Pokemon due to how similar they all play within their archetypes. The split allows them to design Pokemon that get to have their cake and eat it too, whereas without it, deciding your Pokemon involves a deliberate series of tradeoffs because barely any get to eat their cake. And while that may seem like a bad thing, I think it is great from the perspective of encouraging intentional and well-thought out play, even in a single-player experience (which I primarily play it as).

Here's an example, using RSE as a base, using Dark-types (a type with enough diversity to get through its members quickly):

• Offensively, our single type Darks suck on the offensive front, though, except for Absol, this is more to do with the stats of the Pokemon (Umbreon and Mightyena have shit offenses - Umbreon is intentional due to its design, while Mightyena is designed to be mediocre).
  • Umbreon's design choices leave it with no way of breaking out of its role as a tank, a role it excels in during this gen.
  • Mightyena is designed to be a worse Absol. The split has nothing to do with this, and doesn't save Mightyena from being a mediocre shitmon, typical of its early-game brethren. And unlike the Wurmple evos, it doesn't have the benefit of being an early-game crutch and, unlike the Zigzagoon line, it brings no utility with the HMs. Again, this is due to features that aren't the split that make Mightyena awful.
• Absol does have to work without STAB, but it does get features that make it unique and compensate for it: it's has the second-highest Attack of all Dark-types, and unlike the highest (Tyranitar) it gets Swords Dance to go even higher. It also gets Aerial Ace to smash both of its weaknesses (this is a time period where movesets are greatly reduced when compared to modern standards), and its physical moveset can also be rounded out by Shadow Ball (allowing it to still beat Psychics, which is good as it has the defensive advantage over them) and Iron Tail for more coverage (and this would be valuable in a pre-split setting that also included Fairies). While this is unorthodox, this approach makes Absol distinct from other Dark types. No split in later gens would improve its movepool through Superpower, Megahorn and Stone Edge)
• Our Dual-types for Dark can be split into two categories on the offensive front:
  • Starting with the dual-special type ones, we have Houndoom, Sneasel, Shiftry/Cacturne and Sharpedo/Crawdaunt.
    • Houndoom has the niche of dual STAB running off its dominant special attack stat. Cacturne, having equal offenses, is also in the same boat.
    • Shiftry and Sharpedo are offensively inclined, though favor physical attack despite their STAB combo. In return for this unfortunate situation, Shiftry is blessed with Swords Dance and an ability that can double its speed. For coverage, it gets Fighting and Ghost (unresisted), as well as pre-nerf Explosion. No split in later gens would further give it Flying, Rock and Fighting coverage. Sharpedo lacks a method of boosting, but gets a stronger secondary STAB (Water instead of Grass) and gets RockGround coverage (largely unresisted, especially with Water coverage. Later gens would give Sharpedo a way of boosting speed as well as Fighting coverage. Crawdaunt is in the same situation as Sharpedo, except it gets Swords Dance and Poison coverage in exchange for no Ground coverage and lower speed.
    • Then there's Sneasel, who has dual special STAB and awful special attack. It has much in common with Absol. Unlike other Dark-types, Sneasel is fast. Sneasel also gets Swords Dance, which is crazy with its statspread. Ghost and Fighting coverage is unresisted, and it even gets Aerial Ace so that Fighting-types (its 4x weakness) can't be easy switches. Even if we use Weavile in a pre-split world, it gets the best offensive statline of all Dark-types, and they give it a way of boosting as well. This is all designed as a tradeoff for it as it has to function STABless due to its stats.
  • Physical Dark-types have three options: Murkrow, Sableye and Tyranitar. These ones have an immediate unique option when compared to the other dual-type Darks - they get to hit both defensive stats with their STABs.
    • Murkrow is unfortunately limited by its movepool and STATs, though Drill Peck and Faint Attack allow it to hit both sides with its STABs (what you primarily want out of a mixed Dark-type). With both offenses as equal and an emphasis on speed, it's clearly designed to be a mixed attacker. As hitting both defences is a privilege compared to other Dark types, it's left with a barren movepool, with Shadow Ball and Steel Wing for physical sets (Shadow Ball letting it hit Psychics still), and Icy Wind for special (though it does get Calm Mind, its stat spread suggests it's not meant to take turns setting up). The Flying-type also negates the Dark-types weaknesses, leaving it only with the usual Flying-type weaknesses. Furthermore, it stands out from its Flying-type brethren as a mixed attacker.
    • Sableye is in a weird spot due to its low stats, but it does have the niche of no weaknesses as compensation for its lower stats. It's offensive stats are close enough to use either with minimal differences. It also gets a wide movepool, especially when compared with Murkrow, that give it a wide array of coverage options, including Fighting and Flying (physical) and the elemental punches (special). It and Umbreon are the only Dark-types with a recovery move, and Sableye's isn't impacted by weather. And speaking of weather...
    • Tyranitar, as a pseudo, actually doesn't involve many (if any) tradeoffs. In addition to the niche of being a mixed attacker, it gets the movepool to do basically everything, and it gets a busted ability on top of it. This has more to do with the features of the Pokemon than the split, as Tyranitar is designed to be a ridiculous behemoth.

In conclusion, I believe that the physical/special split does not actually support the thoughtful creation of Pokemon, and instead results in Pokemon creation symbolic of the current state of Pokemon: creatures rushed out the door in a manner that lacks intentionality or focus. As I have argued with this analysis of Dark-types, I have shown that Pokemon that are unable to effectively use their STABs due to their statspread have other features or traits that allow them to still function as unique creatures, which is a nuance that has been lost in post-split games due to the increased homogeneity the split creates.

 

[Sonikku A]

Eh, I think the Split was good
It was just not compensated properly for earlier mons, so their movesets sucked. Poor Flareon took forever to get a physical Fire move

Also Ghost types suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked before the split bar Gengar, due to having the attack type being rigid. If anything, pre split screwed over anything that wasn't oriented like its type
"Oh you want to be a special attacker? Tough luck, no rock move is special, so you're forced to use none stab, or forced to use the atk stat that's worse"

Now if you mentioned how even now there's hiccups for move coverage and the lack of a physical hidden power (seriously why isn't there one?) I'd agree a little more. But I think the split was very needed

 

[aaronarium]

Eh, I think the Split was good
It was just not compensated properly for earlier mons, so their movesets sucked. Poor Flareon took forever to get a physical Fire move

Also Ghost types suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked before the split bar Gengar, due to having the attack type being rigid. If anything, pre split screwed over anything that wasn't oriented like its type
"Oh you want to be a special attacker? Tough luck, no rock move is special, so you're forced to use none stab, or forced to use the atk stat that's worse"

Now if you mentioned how even now there's hiccups for move coverage and the lack of a physical hidden power (seriously why isn't there one?) I'd agree a little more. But I think the split was very needed

I don't particularly agree with the sentiment that we need a physical HP. Putting aside the fact that HP is kind of a problematic move in and of itself, it kind of falls into the territory of how the more 1:1 similar we make physicality and specialness, the likelier it becomes that one will begin to emerge as being objectively better since it would be easier to compare the two. Granted, that isn't exactly something I can prove since the two move categories are currently quite different, but IMO it's good that they don't exactly equate to each other (like each have their own tricks) and we don't have things like a special Intimidate, physical HP, and so on.

 

[Ema Skye]

Eh, I think the Split was good
It was just not compensated properly for earlier mons, so their movesets sucked. Poor Flareon took forever to get a physical Fire move

Flareon still has a 95 SpA stat, which is right in line with most of the Fire lineup. Ignoring the legendaries, the highest SpA amongst Fire types in RSE is 110 (Houndoom, Blaziken), followed by 109 (Typhlosion, Charizard, Magmar) and 105 (Camerupt). Flareon's movepool has always been its problem, not it's stats.

Also Ghost types suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked before the split bar Gengar, due to having the attack type being rigid. If anything, pre split screwed over anything that wasn't oriented like its type
"Oh you want to be a special attacker? Tough luck, no rock move is special, so you're forced to use none stab, or forced to use the atk stat that's worse"

Ghosts are also honestly fine. You already touched on Gengar. Misdreavus' problem is its stats, especially now that Levitate Gengar took away Misdreavus' big selling point, being a Ghost not weak to EQ. Shedinja has its Wonder Guard gimmick. Sableye has its no weakness gimmick and a Clefable-level movepool. Banette has beefy Shadow Balls and Dusclops is a tank.

Now if you mentioned how even now there's hiccups for move coverage and the lack of a physical hidden power (seriously why isn't there one?) I'd agree a little more. But I think the split was very needed

Move coverage doesn't need the split to solve, and a physical Hidden Power never came anyways (and wouldn't be needed without the split).

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Maybe it's because I'm a Hoenn baby, but the physical-special split is one of the worst things to happen to Pokemon.

If nothing else, thank you for presenting the most unpopular opinion I’ve seen here in ages!

I’m a little confused though. For a bunch of the Dark-types you listed, you just described how in Gen 3 they all get some subset of [Swords Dance/Steel-type attack/Aerial Ace/Shadow Ball/Brick Break], possibly with a secondary STAB. They don’t seem very distinct from each other at all!

I agree that it’d be cool to see more Pokémon designed to be effective without their STAB, but I’d like to hear more about why you think the Pokémon you listed have lost their identities or become homogeneous after the split.

 

[Ema Skye]

If nothing else, thank you for presenting the most unpopular opinion I’ve seen here in ages!

I’m a little confused though. For a bunch of the Dark-types you listed, you just described how in Gen 3 they all get some subset of [Swords Dance/Steel-type attack/Aerial Ace/Shadow Ball/Brick Break], possibly with a secondary STAB. They don’t seem very distinct from each other at all!

I agree that it’d be cool to see more Pokémon designed to be effective without their STAB, but I’d like to hear more about why you think the Pokémon you listed have lost their identities or become homogeneous after the split.

They are diverse in that while they have some common factors (such as the moves you mentioned or a second STAB), the combination of the factors create the unique Pokemon. Sneasel, Absol and Crawdaunt all get Swords Dance, so they don't seem all that different because all are 'high attack Dark-type with Swords Dance'. But then we get more into the minutia of it:

• Crawdaunt has a viable SpA stat so it can use Water STAB and Ice coverage to an extent, and Swords Dance contrasts to Sharpedo.
• Sneasel doesn't have the viable SpA stat for it's Ice STAB, but it gets the speed that the other options don't. And it gets the most additional coverage options.
• Absol doesn't have the SpA stat either, nor a second STAB to use. With a much higher attack stat than Sneasel, albeit with lower speed, it plays differently enough. Also unlike Sneasel, it does have the bulk where it can feasibly pull out a Swords Dance, whereas it's harder for Sneasel.

In a sense, the split creates a multi-levelled Venn Diagram between the Pokemon of the type to solidify something unique. And the ability to use the STAB bonus was part of that Venn Diagram. And those who can't use the valuable STAB bonus got other features to stand out, instead of being cast off like rejects. The ability to function without STAB was not a curse like it is in current gens. This Venn Diagram is part of the identity of each mon.

Contrast to current gen. Instead of the Venn Diagram, Pokemon creation seems to function like a checklist. And, because movepools have gotten so huge, everything has functionally the same checklist of high power STAB of appropriate stat, some boosting move and lots of status moves (this one applied liberally). Removing the split provides another venue for Pokemon to become distinct, because those without viable STAB need additional measures to still be a viable Pokemon, and those with STAB now don't need as many tools in comparison (because the power threshold has been reduced). Yes, I would argue that the physical/special split is an early example of powercreep, instead of being the QoL change many think it is.

 

[MegaFlareon]

One funny thing I found during pre-split was that the Psychic Pokemon Alakazam uses the elemental punches better than the Punching Pokemon Hitmonchan.

Pre-split had its charm in-game, in my opinion. It was fun to spam Hyper Beam with a Pokemon with high Attack stat, even without STAB. And there were a lot of Pokemon with high Attack but with special STABs.

Also I just thought that Nidoking and Nidoqueen would be more powerful had the pre-split stayed intact since they would have used their higher Attack stat for their Sheer Force-boosted STABs.

 

[Adeleine]

I was going to talk about something else, but as I wrote the post I realized I had a bigger point.

There are a lot of really dangerous Pokemon right now. Some degree of role and check compression is inevitable. But the physical/special split is one example of a different kind of compression: so many Pokemon have such amazing and useful options, that it makes teambuilding more restrictive. Good options make building more restrictive??? I'll explain.

Cradily is a good case study. Gen 3 Cradily has both a niche (reliable special sponge) and a few bells and whistles (can use both ok attack stats decently well, defense boosting + suction cups, mirror coat). Let's compare to another Grass type tank: Ferrothorn. Modern Ferrothorn is very good. It walls physical and special attackers, sets two hazards, chips with Iron Barbs and Leech Seed, spreads paralysis, removes items, and has powerful offensive options to threaten defensive good types like Water (Power Whip), Fairy (Gyro Ball), and Steel (Body Press). Grass, Fighting, or Steel coverage. With so many good options, how do you even describe its niche?

Why do we care about its niche? Because simple niches can be addressed simply. Give our Gen 3 Cradily Recover, and give it one of four legitimate damage options (toxic, rock slide, giga drain, eq). Congratulations, you are now a successful special sponge and have fulfilled your niche. All you lost were two moveslots. What to do for the remaining moveslots (and ability slot, if there was more than one option)? Don't use Constrict, but like, when your main "job/niche" is already satisfied, you can explore! Flesh out your damage options with those from the four you didn't use, or HP Fire, or even something spicy like Mirror Coat or Confuse Ray if you're feeling that. Take advantage of Suction Cups to boost defensively with Stockpile, Barrier, and Amnesia. Even pick from both, and get things like Barrier+Mirror Coat combo or Stockpile+Toxic+Attack to menace offensive and defensive pokemon alike. Sure, some of these will be gimmicky. But who cares? It's not like Cradily learns a billion good moves you're rushing to stick onto it.

Going back to modern Ferrothorn, with how many known-amazing options are at your fingertips, exploring doesn't feel worth it and magic is lost. Sure, you could try a sick Swords Dance Ferrothorn set. It still tanks hits and checks important mons, so what's the problem? The problem is you're throwing away multiple of hazard-setting and status spreading and recovery that chips the opponent and status-spreading and item removal. Can you really justify that trade with such high opportunity cost? You could mechanically build an entire team to extract every drop of benefit from SD Ferrothorn, but you'll get as good or better results by just not making that moveset trade, and with how many Pokemon exist that use Swords Dance well and have stuff in common with Ferrothorn, why not just use Rillaboom/Aegislash/Scizor/etc? Similar or greater reward and way less work.

That example didn't cover the physical/special split in specific, but examples of the split pressuring/"obligating" mons to utilize/"burn" moveslots include Tyranitar and Pursuit, Gengar and Focus Blast, Gyarados and Waterfall, Magneton/zone and Flash Cannon, & many special attackers + Hidden Power Fire/Ice. These moves competitively pressure more unconventional ideas like special move Ttar, utility Gengar, Thunder Wave/Taunt Gyarados, and status move/Metal Sound/Magnet Rise magnets.

More good options laying on the table makes more pressure to take advantage of those good options, and less compared reward for looking outside the box. Or table.

In a similar vein to reverting the physical/special split and limiting good option distribution, I wish Hidden Abilities did not exist, am glad Hidden Power is gone, and wish no Pokemon were added to the usable list in SWSH DLC so we could keep our smaller pool of accessible mons.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

They are diverse in that while they have some common factors (such as the moves you mentioned or a second STAB), the combination of the factors create the unique Pokemon. Sneasel, Absol and Crawdaunt all get Swords Dance, so they don't seem all that different because all are 'high attack Dark-type with Swords Dance'. But then we get more into the minutia of it:

• Crawdaunt has a viable SpA stat so it can use Water STAB and Ice coverage to an extent, and Swords Dance contrasts to Sharpedo.
• Sneasel doesn't have the viable SpA stat for it's Ice STAB, but it gets the speed that the other options don't. And it gets the most additional coverage options.
• Absol doesn't have the SpA stat either, nor a second STAB to use. With a much higher attack stat than Sneasel, albeit with lower speed, it plays differently enough. Also unlike Sneasel, it does have the bulk where it can feasibly pull out a Swords Dance, whereas it's harder for Sneasel.

In a sense, the split creates a multi-levelled Venn Diagram between the Pokemon of the type to solidify something unique. And the ability to use the STAB bonus was part of that Venn Diagram. And those who can't use the valuable STAB bonus got other features to stand out, instead of being cast off like rejects. The ability to function without STAB was not a curse like it is in current gens. This Venn Diagram is part of the identity of each mon.

Contrast to current gen. Instead of the Venn Diagram, Pokemon creation seems to function like a checklist. And, because movepools have gotten so huge, everything has functionally the same checklist of high power STAB of appropriate stat, some boosting move and lots of status moves (this one applied liberally). Removing the split provides another venue for Pokemon to become distinct, because those without viable STAB need additional measures to still be a viable Pokemon, and those with STAB now don't need as many tools in comparison (because the power threshold has been reduced). Yes, I would argue that the physical/special split is an early example of powercreep, instead of being the QoL change many think it is.

Interesting, thanks for responding!

Isn’t this more about the distribution of moves than the physical/special split itself? I don’t think the split was primarily about competitive viability, but rather about flavour and making moves more intuitive to use effectively as a casual player. As a kid, I had no idea what determined move classification and the early games do nothing to inform you which types are physical and which are special, or even that it’s based on type to begin with.

If I’d been more analytical about it I could’ve figured it out, but I tended to assume incorrectly for moves like Bite and Shadow Ball. As a result, I had a lot of terrible movesets that made battles needlessly difficult and confusing (although, having said that, I think I had more fun with Pokémon when losing was an inevitable part of a playthrough).

I feel like your description of these niches relies on the casual player knowing enough about game mechanics to use these Pokémon as effectively as possible. The split means that there’s an in-game indicator telling you whether a move will be effective for your Pokémon. I agree that too many Pokémon have too much overlap in movesets and archetypes, but if every move were more exclusive I think it’d do a lot to fix the problem you describe.

 

[Sonikku A]

I want Recover and Reversal Wobuffet to happen, just to see how absolutely terrible that'd be for comp

 

[Rarycaris]

Wild Pokemon in the overworld is bad bad bad.

I get the appeal of wanting to see what you encounter before before you encounter it, but I'd make the argument that overworld Pokemon (besides special interactable ones) take away from the route design in a major way. Once you decide to have overworld 'mons, you have to design routes around the fact that a notable portion of them will be populated by obstacles that can be annoying to traverse. The developmental solution is to then make the routes more open concept so you aren't stepping on everyone's toes, but this means that routes cannot be as dense and "layered" as before.

None of the routes or dungeons in Galar are as complicated or fun to navigate as Kalos 18, Unova 20, Sinnoh 228, etc., and I don't even necessarily think that it's a product of dev laziness. If we were still in the sprite days, overworld Pokemon may have been a non-issue, since there are discrete squares they could be confined to, but the way things are now, I just consider them a big headache.

Part of me also wonders if HM removal could play a part in there being uncomplicated routes, but this isnt an "HMs good" post (though i do kind of unironically believe that).

I noticed this simplification of routes in gen 7 aswell. It might be a visual illusion, but I feel like moving away from the tile system brought with it a dramatic reduction in the complexity of areas to explore.

 

[DreamPrince]

physical-special split is one of the worst things to happen to Pokemon.

Well I'm not sure I call it a mistake, ( possibly because my first game was Pearl ) I would like to chime in and add that Phys/Special/ Split was really bad for Ice Types, especially for Pokemon like Regice, who could no longer check Water types thanks to the split.

Speaking of which, I wonder why GF makes Ice types slow and defensive is because they don't want another case of the likes of Articuno and Lapras being cancerous, which may also explain why Articuno got 125 Sp.Def instead of Sp.Atk.

 

[MegaFlareon]

Well I'm not sure I call it a mistake, ( possibly because my first game was Pearl ) I would like to chime in and add that Phys/Special/ Split was really bad for Ice Types, especially for Pokemon like Regice, who could no longer check Water types thanks to the split.

Speaking of which, I wonder why GF makes Ice types slow and defensive is because they don't want another case of the likes of Articuno and Lapras being cancerous, which may also explain why Articuno got 125 Sp.Def instead of Sp.Atk.

I can see why they were cancerous back then. Back in gen 1, Ice typing wasn't much of a liability defensively. Hazards didn't exist while Fighting-types were on low viability due to Psychic-type dominance. Add the fact that Blizzard had 90% accuracy on top of 120 BP. That said, I don't really think Ice-types would be cancerous nowadays even with high offensive stats and speed. Steel-types and hazards exist, Fighting types were buffed, and Blizzard's accuracy got nerfed to 70% making the somewhat weaker Ice Beam the go-to Ice move.

I will always wonder how viable a 125 SpA Articuno would be.