The comeback
Thoughts
I feel like I was too harsh to Venonat in retrospect. This pokemon takes a ton of setup to get going, which is extremely unreliable given sleep turns and lack of bulk and meaningful resistances. Even if you can get it going you could always get outsped due to average speed and revenge'd due to low bulk. It's just not an optimal choice by any means, especially for the Rocket-heavy stages of the game.
Very well-rounded. Kinda wish I preserved Dcurl for the Rollout combo but even without it it's performed well. Kinda sux that it doesn't learn Dig tho. Not a lot to say, just a bulky fast, and fairly strong mon.
An important thing I completely forgot in my previous post was that Magmar gets Fire Punch at level 28. This is actually huge, in my eyes. Not having to rely on Ember until the mid 30s makes Magmar's performance at this stage in the game way better than Qwilava's, maybe any fire type in the game actually, and it'll upgrade to Lava Plume around the time Qwilava would as well. Having a strong AND reliable fire STAB at every stage of the game is pretty cool, especially for a fire type with as good of stats as Magmar. I still expect it to drop off at the lategame, but right now I'm very happy with this mon.
Slow + Psychic typing is a really bad combo, I've come to find out. My Slowking has really awful speed ivs anyways but regardless you're gonna get outsped and flinched / confused / poisoned / haxxed in general. Not to mention your low speed leaves you wide open for the plethora of dark moves Team Rocket carries. So not as good against Rocket as you may want for a Psychic, but otherwise typing + bulk carries it a lot.
Also wanted to mention that my previous test of Golem was not a really good indicator of how good it is. By not using Dcurl + Rollout I was using it very suboptimally (if you didn't know, like I didn't at the time, using Defense Curl increases the power of Rollout, which makes it a very deadly sweeping move), and so I don't feel like my experiences should be weighed when considering what rank Geodude, trade or otherwise, should be. I plan on using Graveler sometime down the line to test the combo myself and see how well it does, but until then I support Ryota and DrumStick's views on Geodude.
Everyone level 29
Victreebel: Sludge Bomb 2hkos Primeape, however it outspeeds you and Double Team + Rock Slide flinches can get annoying. Dodge a Hypnosis to sleep Poliwrath and ohko it with Hypnosis. Good matchup, but requires a bit of luck.
Miltank: Twisted Spoon Zen Headbutt into Body Slam kos Primeape, but it can outspeed and cheese you. ZH 3hkos Poliwrath, giving it chances to put you to sleep. Decent matchup, you can do it but it’s not very easy.
Magmar: Charcoal-boosted Fire Punch 2hkos Primeape but again, it outspeeds and can Double Team and Rock Slide all over you, which is especially bad as you take super effective damage from it. Interestingly, on my first attempt Chuck switched out Primeape for Poliwrath after a Fire Punch. This didn’t happen again on my second try but it’s worth noting. Poliwrath obviously beats you. Calling this a poor matchup, Primeape has as much chance of beating you as you do of it.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos Ape and 3hkos Poli through Sitrus. Both can annoy you with evasion / sleep, but they can’t really touch you either outside of repeated crits (which of course happened to me). Great matchup.
Victreebel: Sludge Bomb 2hkos Primeape, however it outspeeds you and Double Team + Rock Slide flinches can get annoying. Dodge a Hypnosis to sleep Poliwrath and ohko it with Hypnosis. Good matchup, but requires a bit of luck.
Miltank: Twisted Spoon Zen Headbutt into Body Slam kos Primeape, but it can outspeed and cheese you. ZH 3hkos Poliwrath, giving it chances to put you to sleep. Decent matchup, you can do it but it’s not very easy.
Magmar: Charcoal-boosted Fire Punch 2hkos Primeape but again, it outspeeds and can Double Team and Rock Slide all over you, which is especially bad as you take super effective damage from it. Interestingly, on my first attempt Chuck switched out Primeape for Poliwrath after a Fire Punch. This didn’t happen again on my second try but it’s worth noting. Poliwrath obviously beats you. Calling this a poor matchup, Primeape has as much chance of beating you as you do of it.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos Ape and 3hkos Poli through Sitrus. Both can annoy you with evasion / sleep, but they can’t really touch you either outside of repeated crits (which of course happened to me). Great matchup.
Victreebel (30): Solarbeam 2hkos Magnemite and Steelix through berry. Mags aren’t worth it cuz of confusion and paralysis but you can eat an Iron Tail from Steelix and deal with it. Decent matchup, beats the ace but struggles against the minions.
Miltank (30): Can’t even learn dig lel. Bad matchup.
Magmar (29): Fire Punch ohkos Mags and Fire Blast ohkos Lix. Even if Lix dodges a Blast Rock Throw doesn’t even ohko so just don’t miss twice lol. Fantastic matchup.
Slowking (29): Mags outspeed and 2hko with Tbolt, you ohko them back with Specs Surf. Steelix also outspeeds but can’t really touch you and you ohko with Surf as well. Good matchup, will require a potion or two but otherwise a sweep is feasible due to raw power.
Miltank (30): Can’t even learn dig lel. Bad matchup.
Magmar (29): Fire Punch ohkos Mags and Fire Blast ohkos Lix. Even if Lix dodges a Blast Rock Throw doesn’t even ohko so just don’t miss twice lol. Fantastic matchup.
Slowking (29): Mags outspeed and 2hko with Tbolt, you ohko them back with Specs Surf. Steelix also outspeeds but can’t really touch you and you ohko with Surf as well. Good matchup, will require a potion or two but otherwise a sweep is feasible due to raw power.
Victreebel (31): Sludge Bomb 2hkos Seel. Solarbeam ohkos Piloswine. Dewgong outspeeds and 2hkos with Aurora Beam, and if you put it to sleep it can still kill you anyways thanks to Sleep Talk. I imagine Solarbeam ohkos this as well but I couldn’t get it to hit cuz I would either miss Sleep Powder or get Sleep Talked. You absolutely MUST sleep everything so as to not anything set up Hail as this will kill your Solarbeam. Decent matchup, you can kill everything hypothetically but it takes a lot of luck to pull off and I almost feel like I’m being too generous to this thing by calling it decent.
Miltank (30): Body Slam 2hkos Seel. Pilo is 5hkod through Sitrus but he doesn’t do very much damage either since you can heal with Milk Drink, It’s a giant slugfest that you could win but is super inconvenient to get into. With Rollout you crush Dewgong. Good matchup, beats 2 out of 3 and beating Dewgong easily is crazy good.
Magmar (30): Seel is 4hkod by any move. Fire Blast ohkos Piloswine. GL HF with Dewgong. Decent matchup, you at least kill the ace.
Slowking (31): Specs Confusion is a roll to 2hko Seel, will probably die from Hail. Specs Surf ohkos Piloswine. Specs Confusion 3hkos Dewgong who can’t touch you at all. Good matchup, requires a bit of switching around though.
Miltank (30): Body Slam 2hkos Seel. Pilo is 5hkod through Sitrus but he doesn’t do very much damage either since you can heal with Milk Drink, It’s a giant slugfest that you could win but is super inconvenient to get into. With Rollout you crush Dewgong. Good matchup, beats 2 out of 3 and beating Dewgong easily is crazy good.
Magmar (30): Seel is 4hkod by any move. Fire Blast ohkos Piloswine. GL HF with Dewgong. Decent matchup, you at least kill the ace.
Slowking (31): Specs Confusion is a roll to 2hko Seel, will probably die from Hail. Specs Surf ohkos Piloswine. Specs Confusion 3hkos Dewgong who can’t touch you at all. Good matchup, requires a bit of switching around though.
Slowking is 31, rest 32
Victreebel: Sleep Powder, get two Growths up and ohko the Koffings with Sludge Bomb. SleepBeam barely misses the ohko on Weezing so you might wanna get three Growths instead of two but you’re playing with a lot of sleep turns and Weezing is inclined to Sludge anyways.
Miltank: Zen Headbutt 2hko Koffing, 3hkos Weezing. Ample time to get poisoned and accuracy dropped. Decent matchup.
Magmar: Fire Punch 2hkos Koffing and Fire Blast ohkos Weezing. Overall good matchup, ohkoing Weezing is a good contribution but you can’t hard sweep due to the inevitable poisons and Smokescreens.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos the Koffings and barely misses the ohko on Weezing. However you’re slower than everything so you are prone to hax. Good matchup, watch for Weezing boom.
Victreebel: Sleep Powder, get two Growths up and ohko the Koffings with Sludge Bomb. SleepBeam barely misses the ohko on Weezing so you might wanna get three Growths instead of two but you’re playing with a lot of sleep turns and Weezing is inclined to Sludge anyways.
Miltank: Zen Headbutt 2hko Koffing, 3hkos Weezing. Ample time to get poisoned and accuracy dropped. Decent matchup.
Magmar: Fire Punch 2hkos Koffing and Fire Blast ohkos Weezing. Overall good matchup, ohkoing Weezing is a good contribution but you can’t hard sweep due to the inevitable poisons and Smokescreens.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos the Koffings and barely misses the ohko on Weezing. However you’re slower than everything so you are prone to hax. Good matchup, watch for Weezing boom.
Everyone is level 32
Victreebel: Sneasel is arguably your best set up target since it only 3hkos with Faint Attack. Get up two growths, ko with Sludge Bomb. Ko Mag and Haunter with Solarbeam. You can’t set up on Gatr due to Ice Fang but you beat it without setup, and Golbat you can’t setup up on or beat. Good matchup provided you get the setup.
Miltank: 2hko Golbat and Sneasel, 3hko Gatr and Mag, ohko Haunter. Hax from Confuse ray and Thunder Wave is your worst enemy, but you can overcome it with items and you can heal off damage yourself with Milk Drink. Good matchup.
Magmar: Ohko Sneasel, Mag, Haunter with Fire Punch. Golbat barely escapes the ohko from Fire Blast, but Fire Punch is a clean 2hko so you don't have to risk it. GLHF with Gatr. Great matchup, would be near perfect if I was facing any other starter.
Slowking: TwistedSpoon Confusion 2hkos Golbat (Specs doesn’t ohko), ohkos Haunter, 3-4hkos Gatr. Surf ohkos Mag and 2hkos Sneasel. Every mon bar Mag I think has super effective coverage on you, and while none of them ohko you, Sneasel and Gatr will beat you. So you can 1v1 the other three, but a sweep is impossible. Decent matchup.
Victreebel: Sneasel is arguably your best set up target since it only 3hkos with Faint Attack. Get up two growths, ko with Sludge Bomb. Ko Mag and Haunter with Solarbeam. You can’t set up on Gatr due to Ice Fang but you beat it without setup, and Golbat you can’t setup up on or beat. Good matchup provided you get the setup.
Miltank: 2hko Golbat and Sneasel, 3hko Gatr and Mag, ohko Haunter. Hax from Confuse ray and Thunder Wave is your worst enemy, but you can overcome it with items and you can heal off damage yourself with Milk Drink. Good matchup.
Magmar: Ohko Sneasel, Mag, Haunter with Fire Punch. Golbat barely escapes the ohko from Fire Blast, but Fire Punch is a clean 2hko so you don't have to risk it. GLHF with Gatr. Great matchup, would be near perfect if I was facing any other starter.
Slowking: TwistedSpoon Confusion 2hkos Golbat (Specs doesn’t ohko), ohkos Haunter, 3-4hkos Gatr. Surf ohkos Mag and 2hkos Sneasel. Every mon bar Mag I think has super effective coverage on you, and while none of them ohko you, Sneasel and Gatr will beat you. So you can 1v1 the other three, but a sweep is impossible. Decent matchup.
Slowking is 34, rest 33.
Victreebel: Golbat beats you straight up, you can beat Weezing but it takes a lot of luck considering it likes to spam Smokescreen. Bad matchup.
Miltank: 2hko Golbat, 3hko Weezing. Golbat can’t effectively hurt you back but accuracy drops and poisons from Weezing really hurt. Decent matchup.
Magmar: Specs Fire Blast ohkos both. Great matchup.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos both. Great matchup, only bother is hax but Golbat does pitiful damage with Bite and Weezing prioritizes Sludge.
Victreebel: Golbat beats you straight up, you can beat Weezing but it takes a lot of luck considering it likes to spam Smokescreen. Bad matchup.
Miltank: 2hko Golbat, 3hko Weezing. Golbat can’t effectively hurt you back but accuracy drops and poisons from Weezing really hurt. Decent matchup.
Magmar: Specs Fire Blast ohkos both. Great matchup.
Slowking: Specs Confusion ohkos both. Great matchup, only bother is hax but Golbat does pitiful damage with Bite and Weezing prioritizes Sludge.
Levels are the same
Victreebel: You can suffer to get up to +2 and 2hko Arbok with Sludge Bomb, and then get outsped and kod by Murkrow. Victreebel can sleep and Sludge Bomb Vileplume down, but eh. Still wanna call this a poor matchup, at the very least inefficient and frustrating with how unlucky you can get vs Arbok.
Miltank: At -1, TS Zen barely 2hkos Arbok, 3hkos Vileplume. Murkrow is 2hkod by Return. Great matchup, Intimidate fodder isn’t necessary but useful vs Vileplume.
Magmar: Fire Blast ohkos everything. Even at -1 Fire Punch will 2hko Murkrow and Vileplume. Great matchup.
Slowking: 2hko Arbok with TS Confusion (Tip: Disable Crunch lol). Vileplume is 2hkod and do shit for damage with Mega Drain (don’t Disable this move, as it will then resort to spamming Sleep Powder, and it outspeeds you, so). Murkrow is ohkod by Surf and doesn’t do shit back with Pursuit. Will likely require some item support, but surprisingly good matchup.
Victreebel: You can suffer to get up to +2 and 2hko Arbok with Sludge Bomb, and then get outsped and kod by Murkrow. Victreebel can sleep and Sludge Bomb Vileplume down, but eh. Still wanna call this a poor matchup, at the very least inefficient and frustrating with how unlucky you can get vs Arbok.
Miltank: At -1, TS Zen barely 2hkos Arbok, 3hkos Vileplume. Murkrow is 2hkod by Return. Great matchup, Intimidate fodder isn’t necessary but useful vs Vileplume.
Magmar: Fire Blast ohkos everything. Even at -1 Fire Punch will 2hko Murkrow and Vileplume. Great matchup.
Slowking: 2hko Arbok with TS Confusion (Tip: Disable Crunch lol). Vileplume is 2hkod and do shit for damage with Mega Drain (don’t Disable this move, as it will then resort to spamming Sleep Powder, and it outspeeds you, so). Murkrow is ohkod by Surf and doesn’t do shit back with Pursuit. Will likely require some item support, but surprisingly good matchup.
Victreebel and Magmar are 33, rest 34.
Victreebel: do I even need to tell you lol
Miltank: Clean sweep with Rollout. Great matchup.
Magmar: Houndour and Houndoom kinda wall you. You can 3hko Houndour before it 3hkos you with Fire Punch, and still beat Koffing, but have no reservations vs Doom. Decent matchup.
Slowking: Specs Surf ohkos everything. Unfortunately Houndour into Doom will ko you, so you need to sack to heal up.
Victreebel: do I even need to tell you lol
Miltank: Clean sweep with Rollout. Great matchup.
Magmar: Houndour and Houndoom kinda wall you. You can 3hko Houndour before it 3hkos you with Fire Punch, and still beat Koffing, but have no reservations vs Doom. Decent matchup.
Slowking: Specs Surf ohkos everything. Unfortunately Houndour into Doom will ko you, so you need to sack to heal up.
Thoughts
I feel like I was too harsh to Venonat in retrospect. This pokemon takes a ton of setup to get going, which is extremely unreliable given sleep turns and lack of bulk and meaningful resistances. Even if you can get it going you could always get outsped due to average speed and revenge'd due to low bulk. It's just not an optimal choice by any means, especially for the Rocket-heavy stages of the game.
Very well-rounded. Kinda wish I preserved Dcurl for the Rollout combo but even without it it's performed well. Kinda sux that it doesn't learn Dig tho. Not a lot to say, just a bulky fast, and fairly strong mon.
An important thing I completely forgot in my previous post was that Magmar gets Fire Punch at level 28. This is actually huge, in my eyes. Not having to rely on Ember until the mid 30s makes Magmar's performance at this stage in the game way better than Qwilava's, maybe any fire type in the game actually, and it'll upgrade to Lava Plume around the time Qwilava would as well. Having a strong AND reliable fire STAB at every stage of the game is pretty cool, especially for a fire type with as good of stats as Magmar. I still expect it to drop off at the lategame, but right now I'm very happy with this mon.
Slow + Psychic typing is a really bad combo, I've come to find out. My Slowking has really awful speed ivs anyways but regardless you're gonna get outsped and flinched / confused / poisoned / haxxed in general. Not to mention your low speed leaves you wide open for the plethora of dark moves Team Rocket carries. So not as good against Rocket as you may want for a Psychic, but otherwise typing + bulk carries it a lot.
Also wanted to mention that my previous test of Golem was not a really good indicator of how good it is. By not using Dcurl + Rollout I was using it very suboptimally (if you didn't know, like I didn't at the time, using Defense Curl increases the power of Rollout, which makes it a very deadly sweeping move), and so I don't feel like my experiences should be weighed when considering what rank Geodude, trade or otherwise, should be. I plan on using Graveler sometime down the line to test the combo myself and see how well it does, but until then I support Ryota and DrumStick's views on Geodude.