SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Pikachu315111]

i keep trying to rationalize the Aipom but every time i look at it i see more things that just make me go "but why"

And that's when you've fallen into his 4D chess game trap! Run Away Aipom holding a King's Rock with STAB Fury Swipes? What madness is this?! What could this guy be possibly thinking?

But think harder. King's Rock, Astonish, Thunder Wave, Protect; this Aipom's very goal is to confuse and annoy! Yes Ambipom is faster, but 85 Speed is just fast enough it can either take you by surprise and start it's devious stalling tactic. "But why Fury Swipes"? Because have you had to wait through a multi-attacking move's animation, at least with the strong ones the damage could be worth it, but this is Fury Swipes so of course the damage is going to be nothing so all it accomplished was waste your time!

Joe is trolling you! While you're confounded and trying to justify his choice of using an Aipom it's the one making a monkey out of you! Some may even feel so insulted Joe would be this "disrespectful" they may quit out of spite, because a win is a win, right?

 

[Ironmage]

And that's when you've fallen into his 4D chess game trap! Run Away Aipom holding a King's Rock with STAB Fury Swipes? What madness is this?! What could this guy be possibly thinking?

But think harder. King's Rock, Astonish, Thunder Wave, Protect; this Aipom's very goal is to confuse and annoy! Yes Ambipom is faster, but 85 Speed is just fast enough it can either take you by surprise and start it's devious stalling tactic. "But why Fury Swipes"? Because have you had to wait through a multi-attacking move's animation, at least with the strong ones the damage could be worth it, but this is Fury Swipes so of course the damage is going to be nothing so all it accomplished was waste your time!

Joe is trolling you! While you're confounded and trying to justify his choice of using an Aipom it's the one making a monkey out of you! Some may even feel so insulted Joe would be this "disrespectful" they may quit out of spite, because a win is a win, right?

Wasting time isn't the only reason for Fury Swipes: Each hit gets its own check for flinch from King's Rock.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Recently I've spent a lot of time wondering how things would have been different for this franchise if Gen 5 had received the same kind of universal praise it does today but at its release rather than the absolutely brutal berating it got. Would there have been significant, fundamental changes for the series going forward compared to what we actually got or is speculating about this topic vastly overrating how much GF takes into mind fan input?

One thing I feel confident saying would've been different would be the approaches to Pokemon/form design in Gens 6 and onward. I honestly doubt they would've gone all in on replicating the BW1 dex every single gen but on the other hand there's no way we would've gotten the same drowning-out of the new Pokemon we saw in vanilla XY, at least not to the same extent, both due to way less old Pokemon being shoved in and also maybe more new Pokemon too. Something similar would probably apply to gens 7 and 8, albeit to a lesser extent

 

[Bakugames]

Someone make a "the world if gen 5 was loved at release" meme

 

[Celever]

Recently I've spent a lot of time wondering how things would have been different for this franchise if Gen 5 had received the same kind of universal praise it does today but at its release rather than the absolutely brutal berating it got. Would there have been significant, fundamental changes for the series going forward compared to what we actually got or is speculating about this topic vastly overrating how much GF takes into mind fan input?

One thing I feel confident saying would've been different would be the approaches to Pokemon/form design in Gens 6 and onward. I honestly doubt they would've gone all in on replicating the BW1 dex every single gen but on the other hand there's no way we would've gotten the same drowning-out of the new Pokemon we saw in vanilla XY, at least not to the same extent, both due to way less old Pokemon being shoved in and also maybe more new Pokemon too. Something similar would probably apply to gens 7 and 8, albeit to a lesser extent

I think one of the defining things about Gen V that was new and then dropped was placing more emphasis on sound design. From every single city having its own music (which usually slapped, mind you) to things in the overworld affecting the track playing in the background like musicians, to GBA sound conversion (unfortunately postgame only), even to the red health theme — sound was something prioritised during Gen V that has never been focussed on to nearly the same extent since. And it’s not a far cry to say the higher ups at Game Freak scrapped this concept because the fans by and large didn’t praise it at launch so it was seen as a waste of resources; it took almost a decade for the Driftveil City theme memes to happen, for instance.

 

[Pikachu315111]

From every single city having its own music (which usually slapped, mind you) to things in the overworld affecting the track playing in the background like musicians, to GBA sound conversion (unfortunately postgame only), even to the red health theme — sound was something prioritised during Gen V that has never been focussed on to nearly the same extent since.

It's the only generation where each Gym got its own rather drastic variation of the normal Gym theme, each emphasizing the aesthetic/Type of the Gym. Such a cool concept, like even if they didn't give all future Gyms their own themes wouldn't hurt to have a few notable ones use a theme variation (or change it up after every few Gyms, a visual key we're progressing and the challenge is increasing along with us). Also Gen V remembered that if you're going to have a musician as a Gym Leader to give them some voice acting...

 

[Imperial Magala]

The teaser for what would be Zoroark: Master of Illusions showcased Ho-oh and Lugia mid combat. This was scrapped in favor of heavily promoting Gen 5, but I'm interested in Ho-oh's hypothetically role. Would it be the same Ho-oh from the main anime, why was it fighting Lugia, and were the Legendary Beasts a remnant of Ho-oh's involvement? There's another teaser that showed an evil Ash, but hindsight made it obvious it was going to be Zorua or Zoroark.

 

[R_N]

iirc these teasers aren't ever (or, didnt used to be) really anything. Often they're just something put together by the team to go "hey the next movie is coming", before anything is really planned at all. Since HGSS were the newest games, they used them to advertise the new movie's existence.

The second teaser with evil ash, that was probably at a poitn where they knew the pokemon but literally nothing else (iirc even that little city celebi flew threw is different from the one they actually used) so they just went hey evil ash

 

[QuentinQuonce]

The teaser for what would be Zoroark: Master of Illusions showcased Ho-oh and Lugia mid combat. This was scrapped in favor of heavily promoting Gen 5, but I'm interested in Ho-oh's hypothetically role. Would it be the same Ho-oh from the main anime, why was it fighting Lugia, and were the Legendary Beasts a remnant of Ho-oh's involvement? There's another teaser that showed an evil Ash, but hindsight made it obvious it was going to be Zorua or Zoroark.

Ho-oh vs Lugia would have been very cool. I imagine there's all sorts of (increasingly ropey) pretexts for them to clash: perhaps being controlled by a villain, or maybe some sort of elemental imbalance in Johto. Who knows? But on the other hand they're one of the rare legendary duo/trios that don't ever fight one another so I'm kind of glad this never happened. The Johto legendaries are quite distinct from later legendary groupings partly for that reason.

I guess they switched to using the legendary beasts for the movie/in-game Zoroark event because those three had never appeared as a group before. Meanwhile Ho-oh hadn't been the focus of a movie before, so maybe they wanted to keep it that way (in keeping with it being a mysterious iconic Pokemon in the anime).

 

[TMan87]

It may have already been discussed in the last 134 pages, but a quick search didn't bring it up.

So, Gardevoir. A Pokémon already greatly discussed for a variety of reasons, but today I want to bring attention to its name. Specifically, its Japanese name.
サーナイト is the Japanese transliteration of "Sir Knight". This raises two questions.

1) Why did they introduce a very female-looking Pokémon (as the Internet would tell you), but used "Sir", which is definitely male-based, in its name? If they wanted to stick to the feminine aesthetic, they could have used some variation of "Lady Knight" and we would have been none the wiser.

2) Knights are usually depicted as warriors clad in armor, wielding heavy-ish weapons (the traditional western imagery of a knight, which is what the name is based upon, would never use a dagger, for instance) and sustaining multiple hits. Why, then, would you go that route with a frail Special Attacker? I understand it ties to the whole concept of "will defend a Trainer it has a strong bond with", but it still lacks plenty of attributes from a typical knight.

Actually, that name would have been a perfect fit for Gallade, who much more closely resembles a knight in the traditional western sense of the world.

 

[Pikachu315111]

It may have already been discussed in the last 134 pages, but a quick search didn't bring it up.

So, Gardevoir. A Pokémon already greatly discussed for a variety of reasons, but today I want to bring attention to its name. Specifically, its Japanese name.
サーナイト is the Japanese transliteration of "Sir Knight". This raises two questions.

1) Why did they introduce a very female-looking Pokémon (as the Internet would tell you), but used "Sir", which is definitely male-based, in its name? If they wanted to stick to the feminine aesthetic, they could have used some variation of "Lady Knight" and we would have been none the wiser.

2) Knights are usually depicted as warriors clad in armor, wielding heavy-ish weapons (the traditional western imagery of a knight, which is what the name is based upon, would never use a dagger, for instance) and sustaining multiple hits. Why, then, would you go that route with a frail Special Attacker? I understand it ties to the whole concept of "will defend a Trainer it has a strong bond with", but it still lacks plenty of attributes from a typical knight.

Actually, that name would have been a perfect fit for Gallade, who much more closely resembles a knight in the traditional western sense of the world.

GF's idea for Gardevoir was that it's a "loyal guardian" and that is reflected in its Japanese name:

"Sir" may have connotations of being a male title, but over the years "sir" has become more ambiguous of gender as female military officers are also called "sir" when addressing them (the rare female knight was referred to as "dame" as the woman's equivalent to knighthood was called "damehood"; however in recent years the term has sadly been used as a negative term regarding woman). Also, this is Japan, they don't really have the strong idea of the title "sir" as we do in the west. No, instead, to the Japanese "Sir" is a title meaning authority & respect.

"Knight" goes back to it being a guardian, but specifically a chivalrous one. A defender of the kingdom, a warrior willing to give their life to protect the people of their land (remember we're just going for general term and iconography here, especially of a general Japanese person, specifically a kid who probably only knows about knights from other RPGs like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy).

So when you combine them, "Sirknight" gives the idea of this is a highly respected Pokemon that will protect its trainer with undying loyalty. It's likely this is why it was Wally's original signature Pokemon, it was his guardian angel. And then there's also the depiction of it from the first Mystery Dungeon games. Though like many things, over the years what Gardevoir is and role has changed over the years.

 

[Codraroll]

After having another look at the map of Galar and realizing how poorly its biomes fit together (the way you step out of one environment and into a completely different one makes even less sense than it uses to), I'm beginning to wonder if the region's cities were made pairwise with a corresponding Route each and then only assembled into a coherent whole afterwards. I'm willing to bet this is true of at least some of the cities in Galar:

• Most notably, Ballonlea and Glimwood Tangle share the same "deep dark fairytale forest" aesthetic. All well and good, but what sense does it make that the forest is entered from the top of the desert cliffs around Stow-on-Side?
• Speaking of Stow-on-Side, it shares the desert cliff aesthetic with Route 6. Route 6 fits as poorly on the edge of the urban Hammerlocke as mustard does on ice cream.
• Circhester and Route 9 are all perpetually snowy and transition into each other quite well. But why is Circhester reached by walking through desert ruins? And when you're back on shore south of Route 9, you're back onto the generic, grassy plains of central Galar.
• Turffield shares the rural aesthetics of Route 4 and the two were probably designed together as one big, seamless area.
• Motostoke and Hammerlocke are the only two towns visible from the Wild Area and were probably designed in tandem with that in mind.
• The whole area around Wedgehurst is entirely self-contained, and was probably designed for being connected to the rest of the region through Route 2, before it was decided to put the Professor's house there and make it a dead end.

The lack of consistency in Galar suggests to me that its component towns and routes were designed separately before they had a plan to tie them all together. In so many cases, you can say "this fits with that just fine, but why are they attached to there at the other end?" Galar looks like even more of a jumble than regions usually do, but that strange consistency each town has with some of its attached areas suggest some of the pieces were always planned to fit together.

 

[DreamPrince]

Recently I've spent a lot of time wondering how things would have been different for this franchise if Gen 5 had received the same kind of universal praise it does today but at its release rather than the absolutely brutal berating it got. Would there have been significant, fundamental changes for the series going forward compared to what we actually got or is speculating about this topic vastly overrating how much GF takes into mind fan input?

One thing I feel confident saying would've been different would be the approaches to Pokemon/form design in Gens 6 and onward. I honestly doubt they would've gone all in on replicating the BW1 dex every single gen but on the other hand there's no way we would've gotten the same drowning-out of the new Pokemon we saw in vanilla XY, at least not to the same extent, both due to way less old Pokemon being shoved in and also maybe more new Pokemon too. Something similar would probably apply to gens 7 and 8, albeit to a lesser extent

While Gen 5's reception to only Unova Pokemon may have influenced giant pokedexes ever since Gen 6, its also worth noting that they have been introducing less new Pokemon ever since XY. From gens 1-5, they had at least released 100 new Pokemon per gen. BW introduced the most Pokemon of any other generations at 156, probably because they couldn't reuse any old Pokemon, so they had to fill that gap with a lot of Pokemon. Ever since XY, they have been introducing less Pokemon, so the large Pokedexes are probably trying to drown that fact. They also seem to be trying their best to avoid 1000 Pokemon mark, hence the less Pokemon and Dexit fiasco.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

As many of you may know, old mons didn't really start getting new dex entries until gen 7. However, I've found an exception to this trend. Here is Jynx's entry in X:

"It wiggles its hips as it walks. It can cause people to dance in unison with it."

This dex entry is technically new. However, it's very similar to the entry used in Red, Blue, and Leaf Green:

"It seductively wiggles its hips as it walks. It can cause people to dance in unison with it."

Good call, Game Freak.

 

[DreamPrince]

Well, FSG have published their longest video yet, Chansey and Blissey. And despite Chansey and Blissey being primarily Singles in Pokemon, their titanic bulk has influenced VGC to the point that the timer rules were created and adjusted, not once, but TWICE. But they have no niche in SwSh VGC thanks to Dynamax insane power and inability to miss. That makes wonder- Maybe Dynamax was created solely to destroy stall? The switch to a chess timer in Gen 7 was supposed to discourage stall, but it just enabled it to thrive. So that got me thinking: Maybe Dynamax was designed to be so offensively dedicated just to ensure that Chansey and Blissey couldn't terrorize events like they did in VGC 17?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Well, FSG have published their longest video yet, Chansey and Blissey. And despite Chansey and Blissey being primarily Singles in Pokemon, their titanic bulk has influenced VGC to the point that the timer rules were created and adjusted, not once, but TWICE. But they have no niche in SwSh VGC thanks to Dynamax insane power and inability to miss. That makes wonder- Maybe Dynamax was created solely to destroy stall? The switch to a chess timer in Gen 7 was supposed to discourage stall, but it just enabled it to thrive. So that got me thinking: Maybe Dynamax was designed to be so offensively dedicated just to ensure that Chansey and Blissey couldn't terrorize events like they did in VGC 17?

Do you know how the timer and long-ass Dynamax animations affect cartridge singles? Obviously it makes it very hard to actually finish a game, but does it actually create a more offensive metagame or did it backfire and buff stall?

 

[R_N]

The timer is An Issue thanks to dynamax but the vibes i see from the online cart content i dip in & out of is its still pretty offensive. It's hard for it to not be, basically every option is just Power, with side effects that also lend themselves to power.

 

[DreamPrince]

Do you know how the timer and long-ass Dynamax animations affect cartridge singles? Obviously it makes it very hard to actually finish a game, but does it actually create a more offensive metagame or did it backfire and buff stall?

Dynamax does create a more offensive metagame to the point that those minimize strategies don’t work, simply because you get 3 super attacks and they provide additional effects. Z-Moves could actually be used defensively-for example Z-Haze actually restores your HP to full while ignoring taunt, so it was uncommon for Toxapex on stall teams to run Z-Haze. The only way for stall Pokémon like Toxapex to take advantage of Dynamax in order to stall out an opposing Dynamax or to try to use Dynamax to shut down a set up sweeper. As a result, hard stall is rarer in cartridge formats as of now.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

You know, it has struck me recently that of all the Gen 1 Pokemon that have been left untouched by the generation gimmicks in recent years, Dragonite really sticks out. It's really fascinating that so many Gen 1 Pokemon have received Mega Evolutions, signature Z-Moves, regional forms, or Gigantamax forms, yet Dragonite has consistently remained untouched throughout it all.

I mean let's look at all of these and look at which Gen 1 Pokemon got which:

Mega Evolution: Venusaur, Charizard (two of them no less!), Blastoise, Beedrill, Pidgeot, Alakazam, Gengar, Slowbro, Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Mewtwo (also two)
Signature Z Move: Pikachu, Raichu (Alolan), Eevee, Snorlax, Mew
Regional Form: Rattata line, Raichu, Sandshrew line, Vulpix line, Diglett line, Meowth line (both Alolan AND Galarian, no less), Geodude line, Grimer line, Weezing, Exeggutor, Marowak, Ponyta line, Slowpoke line, Farfetch'd, Mr. Mime, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres
Gigatamax: Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Butterfree, Pikachu, Meowth, Machamp, Gengar, Kingler, Lapras, Eevee, Snorlax

When you look at the above lists, practically all of the popular/iconic Gen 1 Pokemon are covered and have obtained at least one of those over the years.

Yet Dragonite, despite being an iconic and popular Pokemon, has not received any of them. Game Freak is so intent on hard-promoting Gen 1 by giving the iconic Gen 1 Pokemon all the boons, but despite Dragonite being the first pseudo-legendary and an iconic Pokemon, it has consistently been left untouched to this day. Even back in the days of Mega Evolutions, it didn't get a Mega, yet Tyranitar and Garchomp in X and Y got (largely unnecessary) Mega Evolutions despite being from Gen 2 and Gen 4, respectively. Salamence and Metagross even got them in ORAS, and Kommo-o got a Z-Move in USUM.

I really wonder why Dragonite has been left so untouched as is. Not that I mind, as compared to the rest battle wise it's already a near perfect Pokemon as is, but it's so interesting that Dragonite specifically has been left untouched for the past three generations straight. It straight up wasn't even in Sword and Shield until the Crown Tundra too.

 

[Azery]

You know, it has struck me recently that of all the Gen 1 Pokemon that have been left untouched by the generation gimmicks in recent years, Dragonite really sticks out. It's really fascinating that so many Gen 1 Pokemon have received Mega Evolutions, signature Z-Moves, regional forms, or Gigantamax forms, yet Dragonite has consistently remained untouched throughout it all.

I mean let's look at all of these and look at which Gen 1 Pokemon got which:

Mega Evolution: Venusaur, Charizard (two of them no less!), Blastoise, Beedrill, Pidgeot, Alakazam, Gengar, Slowbro, Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Mewtwo (also two)
Signature Z Move: Pikachu, Raichu (Alolan), Eevee, Snorlax, Mew
Regional Form: Rattata line, Raichu, Sandshrew line, Vulpix line, Diglett line, Meowth line (both Alolan AND Galarian, no less), Geodude line, Grimer line, Weezing, Exeggutor, Marowak, Ponyta line, Slowpoke line, Farfetch'd, Mr. Mime, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres
Gigatamax: Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Butterfree, Pikachu, Meowth, Machamp, Gengar, Kingler, Lapras, Eevee, Snorlax

When you look at the above lists, practically all of the popular/iconic Gen 1 Pokemon are covered and have obtained at least one of those over the years.

Yet Dragonite, despite being an iconic and popular Pokemon, has not received any of them. Game Freak is so intent on hard-promoting Gen 1 by giving the iconic Gen 1 Pokemon all the boons, but despite Dragonite being the first pseudo-legendary and an iconic Pokemon, it has consistently been left untouched to this day. Even back in the days of Mega Evolutions, it didn't get a Mega, yet Tyranitar and Garchomp in X and Y got (largely unnecessary) Mega Evolutions despite being from Gen 2 and Gen 4, respectively. Salamence and Metagross even got them in ORAS, and Kommo-o got a Z-Move in USUM.

I really wonder why Dragonite has been left so untouched as is. Not that I mind, as compared to the rest battle wise it's already a near perfect Pokemon as is, but it's so interesting that Dragonite specifically has been left untouched for the past three generations straight. It straight up wasn't even in Sword and Shield until the Crown Tundra too.

it's arguably weirder considering Dragonite was the first 'Giant' Pokemon ever shown in the series, in episode 13 of the OS anime. Why it doesn't ahve a G-Max form is a mystery.

Granted, the lack of a G-Max Tyranitar, Volcarona or Hydreigon is already a bloody crime.

 

[Codraroll]

The list of Gen I Pokémon that haven't got any dedicated additions since Gen I is becoming quite short, indeed, and Dragonite remaining on it is even stranger in that regard. Taking into account evolutions, pre-evolutions, retypes, Mega Evolutions, regional forms (and regional evolutions), special Z-moves and Gigantamax forms, as far as I can tell, the list of "untouched" Gen I families looks something like this:

• Spearow family
• Ekans family
• Nidoran-F family
• Nidoran-M family
• Paras family
• Venonat family
• Psyduck family
• Mankey family
• Growlithe family
• Bellsprout family
• Tentacool family
• Doduo family
• Seel family
• Shellder family (connection to Slowpoke family aside)
• Drowzee family
• Voltorb family
• Goldeen family
• Staryu family
• Tauros
• Ditto
• Omanyte family
• Kabuto family
• Dratini family

Notably, aside from Ditto which is solely built around its gimmick, Tauros remains the only single-stage Gen I Pokémon not to have received any "special treatment". You could count the addition of Miltank as giving Tauros a counterpart "partner", and it was featured as a Ride Pokémon in Gen VII, but it remains functionally the same Pokémon as in RBY.

In addition to Dragonite, there are some surprises on the list. The Nidoran families were always iconic and quite popular, but aside from getting a really nifty Hidden Ability in Gen V, there's not much to them. Growlithe and Arcanine have also been very popular practically forever, but Game Freak has not thrown them any bones. The Bellsprout family also stands out, being a three-stage family without seeing an upgrade. Psyduck is another fan favourite and creator's favourite, where Game Freak seemingly refusing to give its unique headache powers any acknowledgement in the games. It's also a little strange to see Staryu on there.

My best guess would be that they are "saving" some Pokémon to give them new features later, but then again ... what would be the point? Having a Mega Evolution already did not stop Venusaur from getting a Gigantamax form, for instance, nor did it diminish the marketing potential of G-Max Venusaur in any way. I could also see creator favouritism playing in at some point, where the original designer of a Pokémon family would not want anybody else to make additions to it.

Anyway, I suspect the list will shrink further in Gen IX. Perhaps then we'll get that Seaking evolution I've eagerly anticipated since training a Seaking back in Crystal.

 

[Siggu]

Psyduck is another fan favourite and creator's favourite, where Game Freak seemingly refusing to give its unique headache powers any acknowledgement in the games.

Well, we know Psyduck was the initial idea for the second Let's GO version... until they discarded it because it would have meant having two yellow mascots.

(Even though it would have been a MUCH better idea than Eevee)

 

[PartMan]

Picking up on what Pikachu315111 said, pretty much all the transportation we see is either mass transit or freight/commercial. It stands to reason that a pokemon based society with quick flying on the nearest pidgey and perdominet pedestrian focus would only have need for either mass transit or freight.

Except the taxi system, that's needed because even pokemon get confused by Lumiose city.

Found some interesting dummied-out content while reading. It's interesting to see what get's cut because it gives a better picture of what goes through the developers' heads.

Like, did you know that there was a cut ability called Cacophony? It existed only in GenIII and was cut come GenIV despite no pokemon having it. It showed up on a pokemon card for Exploud so it's thought that it was to replace Soundproof on the Whismur line.

If hacked onto a pokemon it's identical to soundproof, but some theorize it was actually meant to have the opposite effect (powering up sound moves like Bug Buzz and Hyper Voice, like a sound version of the Iron Fist ability). But since it was cut this is all speculation. It could be that either they didn't feel there were enough attacking sound moves to deserve a boost, or that having Soundproof under a different name was just silly. Not that it stopped them with Insomnia and Vital Spirit.

Punk Rock finally came out.

 

[Imperial Magala]

The Hatterene and Grimmsnarl lines feel like they were suppose to be version exclusives, with Hatterene being in Shield and Grimmsnarl in Sword. They're found in similar areas (Motostoke Outskirts, Glimwood Tangle, Lake of Outrage), there's a trade in Stow-on-Side that gives the hypothetical other version exclusive, they're counterpart lines like Reuniclus and Gothithelle, who are version exclusives, and their G-Maxs were version exclusive in Wild Area events.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

The Hatterene and Grimmsnarl lines feel like they were suppose to be version exclusives, with Hatterene being in Shield and Grimmsnarl in Sword. They're found in similar areas (Motostoke Outskirts, Glimwood Tangle, Lake of Outrage), there's a trade in Stow-on-Side that gives the hypothetical other version exclusive, they're counterpart lines like Reuniclus and Gothithelle, who are version exclusives, and their G-Maxs were version exclusive in Wild Area events.

They're also gender-locked with Hatterene being female only and Grimmsnarl being male only, much like Mandibuzz and Braviary.

But yeah, I initially assumed these two would be version exclusive when more about them was leaked, but was surprised when I was told that they weren't.