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Don’t you hate it when your Rilla gets burnt by Moltres, or paralyzed by Zapdos, or chipped by Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs? Do you wish to throw out safe U-Turns and Knock Offs? Well if you do, let me introduce you to Protective Pads Rilla
I’ve been experimenting with this set on the ladder and seen some success with it, making it to the 1700s (as of typing this). This set means Rilla is not only able to avoid Iron Barbs/Rough Skin or Flame Body/Static, but it also can bluff CB and get a surprise KO on say, a Chomp that comes in after you killed something with Knock. Obviously there is a trade off, that being less power for safer pivoting. If you hate Moltres’ existence, this is the set for you.
Utility Umbrella lets you ignore the Rain when dealing damage and just straight murder poor Ferrothorn, Scizor, Galastrier, Buzzwhole or whoever with a full powered Pyro Ball. Losing Boots sucks but no one bothers with hazards any more because boots are so powerful (joking)
Works as a member of a rain team, or a check to it
Utility Umbrella lets you ignore the Rain when dealing damage and just straight murder poor Ferrothorn, Scizor, Galastrier, Buzzwhole or whoever with a full powered Pyro Ball. Losing Boots sucks but no one bothers with hazards any more because boots are so powerful (joking)
Works as a member of a rain team, or a check to it
Utility umbrella doesn’t actually function this way. Your pyro ball targeting Ferrothorn in rain will still have decreased power because the umbrella only allows you to ignore weather effects directly targeting the holder of the item. If you wanted to KO ferrothorn with pyro ball in rain, you would need the ferrothorn to be holding the umbrella. Another potentially great item ruined by poor implementation, thanks Nintendo.
has seen a meteoric rise this gen and this is largely due to it's coverage and ability to tear through balance cores. Unfortunately like many other breakers this gen Nidoking can often suffer from 4MSS. The first and second moves are pretty much always Sludge Wave and Earth Power but after that the last couple of moves can vary among different sets.
The 3 moves deserving of this slot are mainly Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam (As well as their more power variation weather).
Thunderbolt is better vs
Flamethrower is better vs
Ice Beam is better vs
(Notes - In order based on VR, didn't include any mons below C+ or any who would get OHKOd by either stab move)
Thunderbolt is best vs most flying types and bulky waters.
Flamethrower is best vs Ferrothron and Buzzwole along with other steel types
Ice Beam is best vs ground, dragon, and flying types along with Amoonguss
The only other differences are Ice beams lower PP and the fact that Thunderbolt can be boosted by electric terrain and Flamethrower is strengthened by Sun and weakened by Rain
This slot is typically a status move which helps increase Nidokings Utility
Superpower is mainly used to break through Blissey / Chansey since those two mons would otherwise stonewall Nidoking
Substitute is best for easing predictions which is useful due to Nidokings low speed
Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are best for utility and will wear down checks overtime
Taunt is good for blocking opposing Hazards and Recovery but imo it is the worst option
You can also opt for running 4 special attacks
Ice Beam fits best with substiute mainly due to the easier predictions against mons who would be able to OHKO Nidoking. For example, subbing against Lando, Garchomp, and Latios allows you to safely beat them but if they got in on a Sludge Wave or Earth Power they would be able to threatan a kill with EQ or Psychic
Thunderbolt fits best with either of the hazards since it is the most threatening moves against defoggers. Even though you can't hit lando as hard you still will chip it down overtime. Of the defoggers who can heal the only one that isn't weak to thunderbolt is Zapdos, but mons like Mandibuzz, steel birds, Moltres, and Torn are much worse against off against Thunderbolt. Additionally, mons who run boots like Slowking and Slowbro are weakest to thunderbolt.
Flamethrower fits best with superpower mainly due to its best matchup versus bulkier teams. Shedinja is an important target for flamethrower against stall, Ferro / Buzzwole / Blissey can all fit on bulkier teams, and Blissey pairs well with sun
If you want to double up on special coverage then it really depends on the rest of your team. If you have good moltres and rain switchins use Beam / Flamethrower. If you have good Lando Switchins use Flamethrower / Thunderbolt. If you have good Ferro switchins use Beam / Thunderbolt
tldr - Always use Sludge Wave and Earth Power, then pick either Ice beam + Sub, Thunderbolt + Hazard, or Flamethrower + Superpower, or if you want 4 attacks it is based what your team struggles with.
Been experimenting with rain teams recently. Rain's a strong archetype, and I just want to bring up two of the more niche rain mons in the meta.
Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave/Knock Off
Honestly feels like one of the best rain abusers in the tier right now. Combined with other rain abusers (mainly Barraskewda), a lot of common blanket checks to rain like can easily find themselves getting overwhelmed. Under rain, Ferrothorn is unable to survive a Weather Ball + Focus Blast, Toxapex cannot live through a Weather Ball + Earth Power. Like with other rain abusers, Seismitoad makes it difficult for the opponent to effectively deal with it once Seismitoad gets onto the field, as it is capable of outspeeding and killing so many mons in the tier that switch into a Weather Ball under rain. Seismitoad's speed tier under rain is great, with the only unboosted mon able to outspeed it being Regieleki, which isn't really doing anything to Seismitoad anyways. Overall, this is pretty standard for a rain abuser. What makes Seismitoad stand out from fellow rain abusers is its secondary Ground typing, allowing it to function as a check/counter to certain electric types in the tier, such as Zapdos and Tapu Koko. Because of this Ground typing, Seismitoad is able to switch in onto certain matchups that other rain abusers may not have been able to, swaying momentum in the Seismitoad player's favor. Essentially, Seismitoad compresses the roles of rain abuser + electric immunity into one slot, giving it a pretty cool niche on rain teams.
Set is pretty standard. Life Orb is preferred over Choice Specs as Weather Ball + coverage move allows Seismitoad to blow through common blanket checks to rain. Last moveslot depends on what the team composition needs: Sludge Wave can nail Tapu Fini on the switch, setting up an almost guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. It also gives Seismitoad almost a guaranteed way to OHKO Rillaboom on the switch if Stealth Rock is set, which is useful considering Rillaboom can pivot in and force out water-type rain abusers with Grassy Glide. On the other hand, Knock Off lets Seismitoad annoy some of the fatter mons in the tier, mainly Slowking, Slowking-G, and Blissey.
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Rain: 97-114 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 234-276 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable in Rain: 286-339 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Balance teams relying on Clef + Toxapex cores pretty much get eviscerated.
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 116-136 (32.9 - 38.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 247-291 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery Overpowering Ferrothorn can open the way for other rain abusers, such as Barraskewda, to clean up.
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 159-187 (46.3 - 54.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Prediction reliant, but simply nailing Tapu Fini with a single Sludge Wave can setup another rain abuser for the sweep.
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 296-351 (86.8 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock Again, prediction reliant, but useful for removing another pain in the backside for rain.
Next mon I want to bring up is pretty much the definition of "niche," but I still think its a serviceable mon for rain teams.
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Protect
Physically defensive Toxicroak is pretty weird at first glance. 83/65/65 bulk isn't exactly anything to celebrate. However, what makes physically defensive Toxicroak function as a competent mon on rain teams is a combination of its unique typing and having Dry Skin. Fighting/Poison typing in addition to a Water immunity allows Toxicroak to uniquely check some of the heavy-hitters in OU, most notably Urshifu. Black Sludge and Dry Skin give Toxicroak a way to remain healthy for the duration of a match (18.75% hp recovery each turn with rain up), which means Toxicroak can find its way to repeatedly switch into certain threats. Overall, Toxicroak can act as a viable switch in to mons like Choice Band Pheramosa, Urshifu, and Rillaboom, relieving pressure off of other defensive mons on rain teams such as Ferrothorn. Another notable trait is that Toxicroak serves to check opposing rain mons relatively well. It can switch in on Barraskewda and Kingdra's rain boosted Water STABs, though it still fears Psychic Fangs from Barraskewda and Hurricane/Draco Meteor from Kingdra. If anything, it can once again help take off some of the pressure on other mons on the defensive core, such as Ferrothorn.
Drain Punch is Toxicroak's main source of damage, and also provides some nice recovery in addition to Black Sludge and Dry Skin. Knock Off is generally the move the player would want to use after switching in Toxicroak against a mon like Urshifu, as crippling whatever mon the opponent brings out next is always nice (e.g. removing Leftovers from Clefable). With an alright 85 base spd, Toxicroak is able to utilize Taunt fairly decently, pretty much giving it a way to invalidate Ferrothorn and Toxapex. Protect is the preferred fourth slot, as with Black Sludge and Dry Skin, Toxicroak is able to gain HP back at a fair pace. Protect also allows the player to scout against the opponent.
Overall, Toxicroak is super niche, but I think it can earn itself a position on a rain team if the composition really demands it. The fact that Urshifu, Toxapex, and Ferrothorn are as popular as they are usually means that Toxicroak will be able to be useful in most matches.
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak on a critical hit: 139-164 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- 97.1% chance to 4HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO Solid check to non-Aerial Ace Choice Band Urshifu while checking Bulk Up variants as well.
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 256-302 (69.1 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Pheromosa Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 192-228 (51.8 - 61.6%) -- approx. 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pheromosa: 91-108 (32 - 38%) -- 94.3% chance to 3HKO If Pheramosa has Drill Run, Toxicroak can still pivot in at full hp, Protect, and then pivot out into Pelliper. If Pheramosa lacks Drill Run, Toxicroak can generally 1v1 Pheramosa with rain up. Knock Off removing Pheramosa's Choice Band pretty much ensures Toxicroak will come out on top every time in this case. The player would still need to scout whether or not Pheramosa is Banded or if its a QD set.
0 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 102-122 (28.9 - 34.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery With Taunt, all Ferrothorn can really do in this matchup is Knock Off Toxicroak's Black Sludge. This pretty much forces a switch, allowing Toxicroak to Knock Off the incoming mon's item in return. The player would still need to pivot Toxicroak in at the same time as the opponent switches Ferrothorn in and gets a chance to set up hazards or status.
0 Atk Toxicroak Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 39-47 (12.8 - 15.4%) -- possible 7HKO Pretty much a stalemate, but it pretty much means that Toxicroak will be able to Knock Off whatever mon the opponent switches into. Taunt invalidates anything Toxapex can do, forcing the switch. Toxicroak can also safely switch in, not fearing Scald and being able to absorb Toxic Spikes.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 230-272 (62.1 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery (Sword Dance)
0 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 134-162 (51.7 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 138-163 (37.2 - 44%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery (Scarf)
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak: 207-244 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Dry Skin recovery and Black Sludge recovery (Band) Toxicroak can switch into non-Smart Strike Sword Dance Kartana and beat it 1v1 with Drain Punch + Protect with rain up. If Kartana has Smart Strike, Toxicroak is almost guaranteed to be OHKO'd by a +2 Smart Strike. Toxicroak checks Choice Scarf Kartana pretty hard. Choiced Band Kartana can be dealt with by Toxicroak in addition to a mon that resists Smart Strike (e.g Moltres, Zapdos). Main reason to switch Toxicroak into Banded Kartana is to eat a potential Knock Off, which a mon like Moltres would not appreciate. If Kartana instead goes for Smart Strike, Toxicroak can still beat it 1v1 with Protect + Drain Punch if Toxicroak is at full hp and rain is up.
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxicroak in Grassy Terrain: 191-225 (51.6 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Dry Skin recovery, Black Sludge recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery Pretty much a free switch in and a free Knock Off for Toxicroak.
Time to get the fly swatter lmao, its going out of this tier 100%, CB and quiver dance has no counter play what so ever, the checks range from one set to the either and only fairies can take it on while getting jabbed from the banded set
Bulky, physically defensive Volcarona counters all Pheromosa sets. And before anyone calls it a meme- it walls Rillaboom, Kartana, Melmetal, Buzzwole, Scizor, and completely overpowers Magearna. It’s also a threat to sweep. I know people are lazy with the builder and will ban the fly anyway, but a hard counter does exist.
The meta right now, and what I'm assuming it to be after the Mosa ban too, feels very free. Apart from certain restrictions in the builder, building teams around niche mons feels better than it was for the past gen 8. Things like the aforementioned defensive Volcarona and Toxicroak can find their way onto semi-serious teams instead of being absolute memes like they once were. So many lower tier mons right now are usable in the OU tier to where it really is like a breath of fresh air, especially considering what it was before DLC2. It's the first time in a while where I was overwhelmed in the builder not because of the lack of creativity, but because I don't know where to start. Rain? Lower tier breaker? Lower tier sweeper? Mini-version of OU sweeper? (Haxorus, Salamence, Scolipede). I just gotta say kudos and I hope that this facet of the meta doesn't disappear going forward. A meta where things like Azumarill, Diggersby, Krookodile, Obstagoon, Seismitoad, and Thundy-T have well-defined niches. Anyways have a great rest of your day.
Azumarill especially is threatening, as it can assure KOs on Ferrothorn since they're now running Spdef and Careful for Fini and common all-purpose walls like Moltres and Buzzwole find themselves weak to a Stab. Trapshifu existing means there's now a non-dugtrio way of trapping pex (woohoo!).
I recommend that you use glastrier with healing wish support in OU. This horse has tremendous bulk. Because it is unbearably fat, it is commonly left at low HP percents -- perfect for a juicy healing wish. Crazy anti-lead.
It has lots of choices for items, but I think the best are AV, weakness policy, and boots. AV can take nearly any hit in OU and KO back. You must name it "Neigh". SD is waste of a slot unless on screens.
NEIGH (Glastrier) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- High Horsepower
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam
Cool set, however is definitely not as good as the defensive variant. This is a potential trick room set, but it just gets outdone by stackatacka. And since everyone and their mothers are running fire moves, I find it hard for this to set up curses. It also has no recovery, so a crit flamethrower easy ends its spree.
The trick here is to account for it. A solid heatran with flash fire and a rock move is a beautiful counter. You raise a good point that all teams run a fire move, but rarely more than one pokemon. Ferrothorn isn't there to sweep the whole team, he's more of a cleanup late game when your primary sweeper taps out.
I've seen this topic brought up several times but after trying it out a lot and just getting reqs with it, I wanna bring up Trick Room again.
I personally think full on Trick Room teams are not that good because they're just too match-up-dependent and inconsistent. There are always breakers like Urshifu, Spectrier (if no P2) or Melmetal that just run through your team once TR is up and the setter who could have taken a hit is weakened enough. All they need is to be backed by a defensive core, which stalls out enough turns and the TR player basically has little to no counterplay. Granted you also face some match-ups, like some HO, where it's the other way around, but that's why I think full TR is consistent not just plain bad.
What I've been trying out a lot lately however is something that I think is really underexplored and that's semi-TR teams that utilize 1 or 2 setters and 1 or 2 breakers, who benefit from it, while both the setters and abusers are not dependent on TR to function and work just fine without it.
I've mainly used Slowbro or Slowking as setters, because obviously they're really good right now thanks to Future-Port. Not having an other attack besides Future Sight can make things tricky but most of the times you'd rather click Teleport or FS anyways.
CB Melmetal is the main abuser I had because imo it's a fantastic partner for the Slow-twins. FS makes breaking past defensive cores with Mel counters like Toxapex and Buzzwole a lot easier and even Zapdos or Moltres go down if you predict the switch with a coverage move. And against offensive teams CB Melmetal under TR obviously goes IN. Against more balanced teams you can use FS to help breaking early game and TR to sweep late game. (here's an example of this with Melmetal sweeping a team that should have handled it easily on paper: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1238267809-sqysjdd1k4i2u2ds86h69xijhj8db00pw)
One of the main draws of these kind of TR teams is that right now it has a lot of surprise value. Most ppl won't expect TR on the Slowtwins, especially when it's the only possible abuser on the team. And when you time it right, this can easily just cost them the game.
There are other more niche setters like P2, which has potential and was pretty solid when Lando-I and Zygarde were still around and Spectrier had more usage but is in a tough spot right now with Phero, Urshifu, Ferro and Heatran everywhere. Magearna is probably the best bet though if you want a second TR setter, since it has the benefit of being so customizable due to its versatility and it can obviously abuse TR as well. I used Shuca + Ice Beam to patch up my weakness to SD Chomp during the end of my reqs session and it did its thing like it always does. Stakataka, Hatterene and Victini are also viable options that can function similarily to Magearna, that I still need to try out more.
There are also a lot of solid possible abusers, Specs Tran, Crawdaunt and LO Clef (with enough def investment for Urshifu) put in a lot of work when I used them. There are also mons with mid speed tiers like Nidoking, which can benefit a lot from TR against more faster and offensive teams. Also, since the metagame will still undergo a lot of changes even more stuff can become (more) viable in the future.
Any thoughts, ideas & discussion on this are welcome :]
Wanted to play with Trick Room for awhile and this post slightly inspired me to test some things since I conveniently built a TR team before seeing this post. I think if anything is potent in Trick Room as a supplemental setter it's this set which has carried me in at least all the TR games I've played so far. (Insert much better spread reserved for EV gurus).
Anyone who has played mons for awhile know this is the OTR Slowking set from old gen days adapated for G-Slowking. Psyshock > Psychic to hit Blissey harder you also do things like hit opposing G-Slowkings much harder who tend to get comfortable thinking it can pivot into every special attacker with the AV set. Also nice that it resists Rillaboom's Grassy slide, sucks that Sucker Punch can still hit. I think if you're using OTR G-Slow outside of a better ev spread this is probably the set you want to use since it covers most metagame targets right now.
Couple replays in action of WIP team, maybe I'll fix the Urshifu weakness maybe I won't
Close game but you can see G-Slowking put a lot of pressure on these bulkier builds that utilize similar cores. Thankfully Cresselia is fat and clutched surviving late-game Sludge Wave from Nido which is what I was kind of hoping whole time in the background.
CM Lele in this meta......imo a trashy game on both ends I'll be the first to admit my washiness but another good showcase of OTR putting work since it was a bit autopilot here.
Pressuring fat, Rhyperior did a lot of the leg work but the G-Slowking puts some pressure here to along with partners in Melmetal. Honestly and no offense if guy reads this but not sure why Hydreigon was sacked since it put a lot of pressure and now made me realize I'm mostly replacing Regidrago with Dark check because it was only threatening to one team I faced and nothing else
Was not looking forward to a scenario where Aegi caused trouble for G-Slowking but fortunately game went smooth. Probably a better showcase of Trick Room working and the threat of Melmetal on TR (Band on this build).
Replay I had of me losing with team got a replay save error, one of those room isn't there anymore even though I was in the room? Whatever. I wanted to show that replay to show the importance of Cresselia in TR because it's probably one of the few things besides Porygon2 that is stopping Nidoking from stomping on Trick Room since most of the good TR mons are susceptible to it in some manner. I think RegiDrago while nice in theory feels useless in practice if you noticed I barely touched it so that's definitely going to be replaced with something to handle the Dark types in the tier, Magearna probably best bet for now. I actually have been seeing TR here and there with different mons but I think Flexxen covered the archetype well in his post with some details and other options. I do agree full Trick Room is a bit matchup dependent because again some wallbreakers are a pain but some OTR cores can be really powerful in certain scenarios like TR and Melmetal. That's all I got for now.
so far in this metagame. Not only they are incredibly powerful in playing their stallbreaking roles, but they both have access to Taunt, which is amazing as this once fazed out move provides a nightmare matchup for their supposed walls. Its something that I thought it was cool and relieves pressure on this wallbreaking core.
For example, in Nidoking's argument, Blissey and Chansey are the true "walls." However with Taunt, Nidoking is able to throw out a STAB move and capitulate a Taunt and prevents Softboil/Teleport shenanigans. It forces to Blissey player to either Seismic Toss the King to death, or possibly lose out the Blissey if it has taken previous damage (Bear in mind: 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 168-199 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- 78.6% chance to 4HKO). Therefore, any previous chip damage will allow Nidoking to start pressuring Blisseys and other fat mons that think they can recover or start off with status moves.
In Urshifu's case, Phy-Def Toxapex and Clef are the biggest "walls" when it comes to this monster, with the latter resisting its STAB moves, but with Taunt, it prevents Clef from recovering and switching momentum with Teleport, and can bring in one of Urshifu's teammates safely. Against Pex, preventing Recover is important because it forces the pex user to either risk sacking it (252 Atk Life Orb Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex on a critical hit: 138-164 (45.3 - 53.9%) -- 39.8% chance to 2HKO) or forcing a crucial teammate to take massive damage.
In summary, Taunt gives this stallbreakers another dimension to their already lethal offensive and relieves their matchups in a way that it forces the stall/wall player into making high risk/low reward plays and unfavorable in the 50/50s.
So lately I've seen how a lot of people don't really use kyurem and kyurem is actually a great mon.
It has 5 main sets that i've seen on the ss ou ladder near the 1400-1900 areas
1. Sub Roost- sub roost freeze dry earth power is a great set which counters common threats like heatran pex offesnive mag and most of rain while having quite abit of longivity with the new HEAVY DUTY BOOTS and Roost. the pressure ability is also very helpful.
2.Specs- although this is kyurems best set [imo] not most of sets run this and even the ppl who use it imo use the ]wrong sets [imo] The best set according to me IS Freeze Dry Ice Beam Focus Blast and Earth Power
most specs kyurem run draco which isnt rly important for it [again only imo] while freeze dry hits water types ice beam is a more POWERFUL move when waters are gone or weakened .
Earth power can hit heatran magearna ttar the newly amazing ou mon slowking witch galar and melmetal when u cant risk a miss.
Focus Blast is there to ohko ttar 2hko blissey ohko heatran 2hko av melm with focus blast into earth power on the next switch A LOT OF CALCS
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 224 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 306-360 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 316-374 (81.8 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 476-564 (123.3 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 195-229 (48.7 - 57.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
3.Scarf- scarf kyurem is a great revenge killer with a speed of something like 475 idk and a great base special attack its quite a good scarfer on rain weak teams with freeze dry ice beam draco and focus blast. 4.Sub Roost v2- thiz was one of the most spammed dlc1 sets with freeze dry as its special move and icicle spear to kill physically weak mons. This was a pp staller set. 5.DD Kyurem- this is the worst set kyurem uses imo but it works on quite a few teams from what ive heard. This is a pp stalling offensive Kyurem that uses sub roost dd icicle spear.
Thank you for looking at this post and I hope ive done unova icy boi justice. Feel free to pm me for any questions. SAM OUT ! PS: Ttar is tyranitar and imo=in my opinion
So lately I've seen how a lot of people don't really use kyurem and kyurem is actually a great mon.
It has 5 main sets that i've seen on the ss ou ladder near the 1400-1900 areas
1. Sub Roost- sub roost freeze dry earth power is a great set which counters common threats like heatran pex offesnive mag and most of rain while having quite abit of longivity with the new HEAVY DUTY BOOTS and Roost. the pressure ability is also very helpful.
2.Specs- although this is kyurems best set [imo] not most of sets run this and even the ppl who use it imo use the ]wrong sets [imo] The best set according to me IS Freeze Dry Ice Beam Focus Blast and Earth Power
most specs kyurem run draco which isnt rly important for it [again only imo] while freeze dry hits water types ice beam is a more POWERFUL move when waters are gone or weakened .
Earth power can hit heatran magearna ttar the newly amazing ou mon slowking witch galar and melmetal when u cant risk a miss.
Focus Blast is there to ohko ttar 2hko blissey ohko heatran 2hko av melm with focus blast into earth power on the next switch A LOT OF CALCS
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 224 SpD Assault Vest Melmetal: 306-360 (73 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 332-392 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 316-374 (81.8 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Heatran: 476-564 (123.3 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 262-310 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 195-229 (48.7 - 57.2%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
3.Scarf- scarf kyurem is a great revenge killer with a speed of something like 475 idk and a great base special attack its quite a good scarfer on rain weak teams with freeze dry ice beam draco and focus blast. 4.Sub Roost v2- thiz was one of the most spammed dlc1 sets with freeze dry as its special move and icicle spear to kill physically weak mons. This was a pp staller set. 5.DD Kyurem- this is the worst set kyurem uses imo but it works on quite a few teams from what ive heard. This is a pp stalling offensive Kyurem that uses sub roost dd icicle spear.
Thank you for looking at this post and I hope ive done unova icy boi justice. Feel free to pm me for any questions. SAM OUT ! PS: Ttar is tyranitar and imo=in my opinion
Very well, put together, and very polite about it as well. I'm a total noob to competitive pokemon, (a month of experience!) But imo, what kyurem lacks in typing, he makes up for in stats. With ice/dragon, he'll often end up hitting a wall with fini or heatran. Like u said, u can invest in unique moves to counter, but then that takes away STAB, and probably means I won't use a choice item. Imo ;), he's a great choice sweeper, but needs to have his counters taken out before murdering the other team.
Bulky, physically defensive Volcarona counters all Pheromosa sets. And before anyone calls it a meme- it walls Rillaboom, Kartana, Melmetal, Buzzwole, Scizor, and completely overpowers Magearna. It’s also a threat to sweep. I know people are lazy with the builder and will ban the fly anyway, but a hard counter does exist.
Ngl I hate this set, it's literally insane. Here's a great counter though. The strat here is surprise, get them to loop a rather useless move when used in succession. (Terrain, stat boosts, and guarda like reflect/light screen, etc.) So many players open up with a stat boost or a stealth rocks that you can catch players off guard and get a good sweep.
Hawlucha @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Encore
- Mean Look
- Dual Wingbeat
- Bulk Up
A couple Achilles's.....
-outspeed= instant death
-garbage stats. Any choice user is death
- unaware is really good block for his sweeps
Overall, sacrificing one team team member to act as a counter and possible sweeper is well worth it, imo.additionaly, he's still useful outside of that scenario between bulk up, his berry, and double wing, which easily breaks walls like blissey. Ty for reading, and any other good counters to stat boosters (other than clefable! ;) Would be really appreciated
Very well, put together, and very polite about it as well. I'm a total noob to competitive pokemon, (a month of experience!) But imo, what kyurem lacks in typing, he makes up for in stats. With ice/dragon, he'll often end up hitting a wall with fini or heatran. Like u said, u can invest in unique moves to counter, but then that takes away STAB, and probably means I won't use a choice item. Imo ;), he's a great choice sweeper, but needs to have his counters taken out before murdering the other team.
Specs Kyurem is a breaker, as opposed to a sweeper. Its role is to break down the opposing defensive core for an actual sweeper. All it takes is a couple of accurate predictions to do heavy damage thanks to Freeze Dry+Earth Power's limited switch-ins. I agree with the post above, Kyurem is an absurdly good mon in general, it's just held back by that Rocks weakness and the fact it can't do everything at once. It also suffers a fair bit due to the popularity of absurdly powerful mons like Urshifu-S, the under-suspect Mosa, and Magearna, all of which are breakers with fewer switch-ins.
Ngl I hate this set, it's literally insane. Here's a great counter though. The strat here is surprise, get them to loop a rather useless move when used in succession. (Terrain, stat boosts, and guarda like reflect/light screen, etc.) So many players open up with a stat boost or a stealth rocks that you can catch players off guard and get a good sweep.
Hawlucha @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Encore
- Mean Look
- Dual Wingbeat
- Bulk Up
A couple Achilles's.....
-outspeed= instant death
-garbage stats. Any choice user is death
- unaware is really good block for his sweeps
Overall, sacrificing one team team member to act as a counter and possible sweeper is well worth it, imo.additionaly, he's still useful outside of that scenario between bulk up, his berry, and double wing, which easily breaks walls like blissey. Ty for reading, and any other good counters to stat boosters (other than clefable! ;) Would be really appreciated
Hawlucha is a particular type of sweeper-a cleaner. As the name suggests, a cleaner is most useful as a win condition at the end of the game, when Lucha's counterplay has been weakened by other sweepers or breakers. Hawlucha's main strength is Unburden, which makes it unkillable by revenge killers without them having to take a hit first, and means it doesn't have to fully invest in speed and can run bulk instead. A set like the following works best:
Hawlucha @ Grassy/Electric Seed/Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Def / 44 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat/High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Stone Edge/Sky Attack
Credit Gomi for the spread, lives Rain Barreskewda's STAB after Seed. Power Herb+Sky Attack is a secondary option in case you aren't running Rillaboom or a Tapu for some reason, though you miss out on coverage. So the answer to your question of "how do you deal with Unaware users", the answer is "don't lead Hawlucha!" I'm sure your set catches a couple of people off guard, but that's about all it can do, and any sturdy Flying resist eats it alive (not to mention the prospect of a suicide lead going boom of dropping a Memento on your would-be sweeper).
Hope this was helpful to you!
Very well, put together, and very polite about it as well. I'm a total noob to competitive pokemon, (a month of experience!) But imo, what kyurem lacks in typing, he makes up for in stats. With ice/dragon, he'll often end up hitting a wall with fini or heatran. Like u said, u can invest in unique moves to counter, but then that takes away STAB, and probably means I won't use a choice item. Imo ;), he's a great choice sweeper, but needs to have his counters taken out before murdering the other team.
It rly doesnt have any counters that are rly unbreakable [again say it with me IMO] although blissey is uh problematic with chip you can prolly 2hko and av slowking-witch galar is truly quite a problem . I've learnt that kyurem [specs] needs some spin/defog support as it usually gets a kill whenever in and as theotherguytm stated specs kyurem is a breaker
Specs Kyurem is a breaker, as opposed to a sweeper. Its role is to break down the opposing defensive core for an actual sweeper. All it takes is a couple of accurate predictions to do heavy damage thanks to Freeze Dry+Earth Power's limited switch-ins. I agree with the post above, Kyurem is an absurdly good mon in general, it's just held back by that Rocks weakness and the fact it can't do everything at once. It also suffers a fair bit due to the popularity of absurdly powerful mons like Urshifu-S, the under-suspect Mosa, and Magearna, all of which are breakers with fewer switch-ins.
although the sub roosts sets are pgood I haven't used normal kyurem with something like just hdb stabs and stuff as you stated. I may try it later but I would still say specs kyurem>others. SAM OUT
Ngl I hate this set, it's literally insane. Here's a great counter though. The strat here is surprise, get them to loop a rather useless move when used in succession. (Terrain, stat boosts, and guarda like reflect/light screen, etc.) So many players open up with a stat boost or a stealth rocks that you can catch players off guard and get a good sweep.
Hawlucha @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Encore
- Mean Look
- Dual Wingbeat
- Bulk Up
A couple Achilles's.....
-outspeed= instant death
-garbage stats. Any choice user is death
- unaware is really good block for his sweeps
Overall, sacrificing one team team member to act as a counter and possible sweeper is well worth it, imo.additionaly, he's still useful outside of that scenario between bulk up, his berry, and double wing, which easily breaks walls like blissey. Ty for reading, and any other good counters to stat boosters (other than clefable! ;) Would be really appreciated
This set was all over Youtube but it's not consistent on a game-to-game basis, especially because people like to lead off with their Lando or Pheromosa and click U-turn turn 1.
Edit: Although I have heard it's really fun so if you want some funny clips just lead with this turn 1 on an alt account lol
Edit 2: For the question at the bottom use Ditto. Ditto makes your HO and Stall matchup a lot better because with Ditto there are very few pokemon that can sweep you without getting stuffed at one kill.
Awesome, thanks for all of the help you guys! I think I want to use ditto as a great counter, but is a choice item worth sacrificing move versatility if you don't know what moved you'll get? Any specific items that work well for you guys?
Awesome, thanks for all of the help you guys! I think I want to use ditto as a great counter, but is a choice item worth sacrificing move versatility if you don't know what moved you'll get? Any specific items that work well for you guys?
It will always use Scarf to revenge kill set up mons on offense. Against stall it’ll normally be used to switch into regen and self recovery mons to stall them out and if lucky enough they’ll knock off the scarf and you’ll usually just win outside of specific game scenarios. If Ditto isnt scarf chances are you’re better off using another mon.
After spending the entire day going mental and questioning whether laddering for reqs is a good idea or not, I eventually managed to meet the requirements for the suspect test. Normally I don't mind laddering but this particular state of the metagame was truly chaotic for me to adapt, and there are a few mentions I'd like to talk about.
Rain
To start off, the most fun I had on the ladder was with utilizing Zapdos in rain teams. What encouraged me was running into one myself with a standard balance (stuff like Clefable, Toxapex, etc.) The situation I found myself in was not very welcoming for my team, because as long as the rain was up, I had no reliable switchins to Zapdos. Seeing how I struggled to keep the momentum up for myself, it wasn't difficult for the opposing team to keep rain up anyway so whenever I used some sort of balance structure without Blissey, I always lost to Zapdos.
This is the most common and efficient Zapdos set to use in Rain teams. Both your STABs are ridiculous, and Ground-types such as Excadrill really fear getting hit by Water-type Weather Ball. Overall if your opponent does not have any ways of blocking the weather, Zapdos is a super good Pokemon to constantly generate offensive pressure.
Sand
Next up I want to talk about sand cores, especially the impact of Dracozolt. The reason what got me into testing Dracozolt was similar to Zapdos, many teams I made were criminally weak to Dracozolt under the Sandstorm. Thus I threw a team together and started laddering with it. I had a similar experience to what I experienced while facing it, there aren't many teams out there that like facing Dracozolt, especially if the sand setter is using Smooth Rock. It was easy to lure the Ground-types in because unboosted Life Orb Draco Meteor still hits like an actual truck and they can only switch into you once or twice, turning the game into an effective coinflip. You either sack something to Bolt Beak or go to your Ground-type to eat a Draco Meteor. This is Craing's core from his sand team, everything is pretty standard. You set sand up with Tyranitar, let Dracozolt and Excadrill do the work.
Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
Moving on, I need to talk about two Poison-type Pokemon in Galarian Slowking and Nidoking. To talk about Galarian Slowbro briefly, this thing is perhaps what annoyed me most, similarly to Dracozolt the team I used was seriously weak to Galarian Slowking. The difference with its counterpart is having 10 more SpAtk, which allows it to fire slightly stronger Future Sights, also being Poison-type and learning good coverage such as Flamethrower makes it a decent answer to Clefable and Ferrothorn. I was using a balanced team for most of my run and every game I genuinely struggled had a Galarian Slowking in it, constantly applying pressure by abusing my defensive core. This Pokemon is seriously good, everyone should give it a test.
As for Nidoking, its coverage is enough to break the entire tier and nothing is safe. Still, I was able to develop a counterplay against it by tricking a Choice Scarf to it, so it became very easy to play around with the amount of Protects I ran in the team.
Other Broken Stuff
After this Pheromosa suspect is concluded, I believe we have 2 candidates that are worth looking into; Magearna and Spectrier. Spectrier forces you to run a dedicated check for it, and even when you do, you are unfortunately not safe. Unless you are running a dedicated Ghost-resist in your team or Blissey, it can be very difficult to beat a Spectrier, and it is often costly. During my run I had a Spectrier spreading burn on my entire team before I was able to lower its HP to half, then for whatever reason, he stayed in Toxapex's knock and died when it was in a clear winning position. As for Magearna, Magearna still does Magearna things from DLC1, Scarf/Specs Trick sets are still very common along with Double Dance sets with either Shift Gear or Iron Defense. With Screens support, it is very difficult to wear down and is often problematic and it has excellent bulk with godlike typing, so it could be worth looking into it. I started using Celesteela as measurement against Magearna ( Still takes shitload from Specs Volt Switch), and I must say it is working quite well with the amount of chip Leech Seed + Flamethrower provides while also being super durable against Draining Kiss.
Pheromosa
Lastly, I wanna briefly talk about the Pokemon being suspected. While I was able to play around any physical without any trouble ( Helmet Pex bodies any physical variant), I had severe problems against Quiver Dance Pheromosa. QD Pheromosa is often coming with screen support from either Tapu Koko or Grimmsnarl, this allows Pheromosa to actually take advantage of weak-hitting stuff such as Toxapex and turn into a monster pretty easily. I first laughed at Shock Wave Pheromosa until it OHKOed my Pex at +1, then I lost the game painfully. While there are enough checks for its Physical sets, I believe Quiver Dance and good coverage ( Literally BoltBeam but its enough) pushes Pheromosa over the edge therefore I'll be voting ban on it.
Here's a Pokemon I've been experimenting with on Rain:
I was looking for some sort of offensive pivot to Spectrier that prevents it from mindlessly spamming its Ghost-type STABs, and I came up with Heliolisk. Much like the aforementioned Toxicroak, Heliolisk is also a Dry Skin Pokemon, giving it a Water-immunity (good for opposing Rain, especially Pelipper) and good passive recovery under Rain, allowing it to find more opportunities to come in on Spectrier and actually nullify Will-o-Wisp damage to a degree. Granted, it has to watch for Mud Shot and the less-impressive Dark Pulse, but having a Pokemon on your Rain team that makes the opposing Spectrier user think twice about clicking Shadow Ball/Hex is really nice, imo. Still toying around with the set, but I'm currently running a Life Orb 4 Attacks set with Thunder/Volt Switch/Grass Knot/Surf. I know it gets Weather Ball, but I like Surf more as it gives Heliolisk something to use vs Excadrill outside of Rain. Dry Skin is also really nice to mitigate LO recoil. In short, it's a very niche Pokemon and I don't really see it being used outside of Rain, but it does what I need it to do for my rain squad and I'm proud of the little reptile.
The games themselves aren't super great (I gambled a lot vs Excadrill in the beginning of g1 lmao), but it at the very least shows what Heliolisk does against Spectrier.
has seen a meteoric rise this gen and this is largely due to it's coverage and ability to tear through balance cores. Unfortunately like many other breakers this gen Nidoking can often suffer from 4MSS. The first and second moves are pretty much always Sludge Wave and Earth Power but after that the last couple of moves can vary among different sets.
