Headlines “Politics” [read the OP before posting]

[boo836]

.................it's literally on their website. https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-the-philippines/#:~:text=The United States and the Philippines have a strong trade,and services traded (2086).&text=The two countries have a,1989, and a tax treaty.


Let America know that "moral authority" isn't really a thing so they stop trying to homogenise the world's politics and they finally end interventionist wars then thanks ^^

Your cited link doesn't support your argument. I'll be very generous and assume you pasted the wrong one.

Anyways, countries don't end formal relations with one another over the actions of respective leaders. If that were the case, the US would have broke from the Philippines after it elected a stooge for the People's Republic of China. Performatively complaining about "interventionist wars" while simultaneously demanding suspended relations with every government you don't like makes me think that you don't have any substantive understanding of foreign policy, let alone the capability to coherently critique America's. Either you support intervention against MBS and Duterte, or you accept normalised relations with them. There isn't any middle ground lol

 

[Celever]

Yeah, two countries trading with each other isn't really evidence of countries supporting each other's government. That's like saying the U.S. supports the PRC and vice versa

Oh it absolutely does. Trade is the vessel for American neo-colonialism with things like structural adjustment programs, and is how American ideology is imposed on countries. If America is trading with a state, it's either to force it back into free-market capitalism, or because the state is already free-market capitalist. This is the most basic, year 1 international relations theory. It's a way to establish alliance. Why does America help fund Phillipine's relief programs, but not Mozambique's? They're allies, and support each other.

The UK has recently given a huge Government infrastructure scheme to Huawei. The reason I know this is because it was opposed by some for demonstrating closer ties with PRC than we would like, and those who were proponents of it said "yes, we should have closer relations with PRC". How do you think trade is a separate issue to international relations I'm so incredulous that you think this.

Why do you think so many countries still refuse to trade with Kosovo?

Your cited link doesn't support your argument. I'll be very generous and assume you pasted the wrong one.

Anyways, countries don't end formal relations with one another over the actions of respective leaders. If that were the case, the US would have broke from the Philippines after it elected a stooge for the People's Republic of China. Performatively complaining about "interventionist wars" while simultaneously demanding suspended relations with every government you don't like makes me think that you don't have any substantive understanding of foreign policy, let alone the capability to coherently critique America's. Either you support intervention against MBS and Duterte, or you accept normalised relations with them. There isn't any middle ground lol

"War or bust" is a very American position, I like it.

 

[lilyhollow]

No, it's more that "moral authority" isn't really a thing. Facts remain true regardless of who says them.

of course facts do not change. underlying motives remain important.

imagine if i said something like 'sultan of skook was so toxic during this discussion, he said i was daft! everyone get this bitch!' it's based on fact, so are you fine with it? you'd just let that slide?

no, probably you would be thinking something like 'wait a second, lilyhollow was equally rude if not moreso, so it's total bullshit for her to even bring this up. she is only saying this in order to sneakily benefit herself.' the truth can be abused; underlying motives are important and must be understood

 

[boo836]

"War or bust" is a very American position, I like it.

It's amazing how you'll ignore basic facts demonstrating how full of shit your argument is, in favour of performative quips. Do you call everyone you disagree with "CIA" too? There is no middle ground between political intervention and normalisation. Any action with regards to the interests of an adversarial state is regarded as "intervention" by the adversary in question. Claiming the rules of IR are "American" is hilarious and would get you laughed at by diplomatic staff in Russia or China.

 

[Zerses]

Regardless of the intention, though, this post does downplay the issues expressed with Russia. This post is bad for other reasons, though, cherrypicking quotes and taking them out of context to make Biden look like more a warmongerer. For example, this post does not mention the part in the article where Biden said he wanted to cooperate with Russia on certain issues like arms control, and took some parts out of context - for example, the "no soul" part was something that Biden said to Putin's face (Putin supposedly responded "we understand one another") and he responded to whether or not he thought Putin was a killer with “Mmm hmm, yes I do.” Seriously, took me only around a minute to read the article and see that this person was oversensationalizing everything.

EDIT: I thought you were referring to me when you said "this person was oversensationalizing everything", but I misread, it was towards the person who wrote the article.

I'm not oversensationalizing everything, Let's not get out of topic. The whole point of my post was to give an example on how hypocrite Biden's rhetoric is, because if we're going to accuse and ask others for their domestic issues to be solve, be it human rights or whatever, then why can't we treat each country equally in this matter?. That being said, you can't expect those countries to solve their issues when not only is the US allowing others to promote the same thing Biden is accusing Russia of, which happens to be the Saudi case, but even Biden's administration, the US government, fails to follow.

You don't seem to be aware of how harmful Biden's foreign policy is to our region, do you? not even enough to care about diplomatic stability, which should prevail above all else between the US and Russia or any other country equivalent to its geopolitical weight to avoid full-scale conflicts.

i love how nobody's bothered to address the fact that Biden's State Department has been punishing MBS, in favour of complaining about an appearance of "hypocrisy" that's completely divorced from the reality of the past 2 months

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Biden administration announced sanctions and visa bans on Friday targeting Saudi Arabian citizens over the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, but stopped short of imposing sanctions on Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman himself.

Don't lie, that's on the article I linked before, but in case you'd need even more clear information, here's Human Right Watch from this month on this situation.

Human Rights Watch and 41 other organizations are calling on President Joe Biden to impose sanctions available under the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act on officials at the highest levels of Saudi leadership, including MBS.

Yet we not only have the audacity to call Putin a killer, but also accuse, sanction and threat him personally, but will we see the US treat MBS this way? No, and Biden's foreign policies should aim for a more common sense in this matter, so you can finally say he has the moral decency to ask others to solve their issues, because at the end of the day, it's all on the selective morality in which they treat others.

 

[boo836]

EDIT: I thought you were referring to me when you said "this person was oversensationalizing everything", but I misread, it was towards the person who wrote the article.

I'm not oversensationalizing everything, Let's not get out of topic. The whole point of my post was to give an example on how hypocrite Biden's rhetoric is, because if we're going to accuse and ask others for their domestic issues to be solve, be it human rights or whatever, then why can't we treat each country equally in this matter?. That being said, you can't expect those countries to solve their issues when not only is the US allowing others to promote the same thing Biden is accusing Russia of, which happens to be the Saudi case, but even Biden's administration, the US government, fails to follow.

You don't seem to be aware of how harmful Biden's foreign policy is to our region, do you? not even enough to care about diplomatic stability, which should prevail above all else between the US and Russia or any other country equivalent to its geopolitical weight to avoid full-scale conflicts.





Don't lie, that's on the article I linked before, but in case you'd need even more clear information, here's Human Right Watch from this month on this situation.



Yet we not only have the audacity to call Putin a killer, but also accuse, sanction and threat him personally, but will we see the US treat MBS this way? No, and Biden's foreign policies should aim for a more common sense in this matter, so you can finally say he has the moral decency to ask others to solve their issues, because at the end of the day, it's all on the selective morality in which they treat others.

HRW calling for specific sanctions on the House of Saud doesn't refute the fact that sanctions have been placed on Saudi officials. At no point have i lied, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about lol

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-khashoggi-sanctions-idUSKBN2AQ2QI

 

[Zerses]

HRW calling for specific sanctions on the House of Saud doesn't refute the fact that sanctions have been placed on Saudi officials. At no point have i lied, you just don't know what the fuck you're talking about lol

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-saudi-khashoggi-sanctions-idUSKBN2AQ2QI

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Biden administration announced sanctions and visa bans on Friday targeting Saudi Arabian citizens over the 2018 killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, but stopped short of imposing sanctions on Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman himself.

They ask for specific sanctions on the House of Saud because MBS isn't a simple official. He not only belongs to said house but is also the heir to its throne and is the one who's ruling the country due to his father's ilness, so Biden's administration isn't "punishing" MBS as you just said, the only thing they did was place sanctions on a few officials and that's it. There hasn't been anything on MBS himself, who approved Khashoggi's murder according to intelligence reports, or are you going to tell me that the one who's behind and approved all this cannot be held accountable so he can keep on murdering and pretend it's ok? Hello? lol

A United States intelligence report released last week adds further evidence to what many have long suspected: Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, known as MBS, had approved the 2018 murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Yet despite the report’s findings, the Biden administration has failed to live up to its campaign promise to hold MBS accountable.

This not only disappointed human rights organizations, but democrats as well, who also complained during Trump's administration that the US was failing to hold MBS accountable. I even remember Biden calling Saudi Arabia a "pariah" state with "no redeeming social value" during his presidential campaign, but as usual things change once you get to office, right? Biden isn't going to criminalize Saudi Arabia simply because he fears a relations breach, in which case the Saudis would not spend millions of dollars on US weapons for cruel purposes.

Anyway, this isn't a thread on Saudi politics, it's American Politics as stated in the title. Other than that, there is no reason to excuse Biden's lack of morals and commitment, so just get over it.

 

[boo836]

They ask for specific sanctions on the House of Saud because MBS isn't a simple official. He not only belongs to said house but is also the heir to its throne and is the one who's ruling the country due to his father's ilness, so Biden's administration isn't "punishing" MBS as you just said, the only thing they did was place sanctions on a few officials and that's it. There hasn't been anything on MBS himself, who approved Khashoggi's murder according to intelligence reports, or are you going to tell me that the one who's behind and approved all this cannot be held accountable so he can keep on murdering and pretend it's ok? Hello? lol



This not only disappointed human rights organizations, but democrats as well, who also complained during Trump's administration that the US was failing to hold MBS accountable. I even remember Biden calling Saudi Arabia a "pariah" state with "no redeeming social value" during his presidential campaign, but as usual things change once you get to office, right? Biden isn't going to criminalize Saudi Arabia simply because he fears a relations breach, in which case the Saudis would not spend millions of dollars on US weapons for cruel purposes.

Anyway, this isn't a thread on Saudi politics, it's American Politics as stated in the title. Other than that, there is no reason to excuse Biden's lack of morals and commitment, so just get over it.

When you sanction a monarch, you are effectively sanctioning the entire house and certain state enterprises. Sanctioning MBS is a really, really, really dumb thing for Biden to do and doesn't actually accomplish much outside of freezing relations to make a few liberals happy lol. US-Saudi relations are a WHOLE LOT more than simply about weapons purchases. It's about military bases and countering AQ/ISIS. It's about American access to petrol and about Saudi infrastructural projects. It's about ensuring a half-century long investment isn't ruined by a single sociopathic dipshit that has the good fortune to be Crown Prince. Regardless, the argument was about Biden supposedly being a hypocrite for not instating sanctions on Saudi Arabia, a policy Biden instated in his first weeks of office. If you really want Biden to take a harder stance on SA, you should be demanding flight bans for the entirety of Tiger Squad and an isolation of MBS' mechanisms for soft power.

 

[Zerses]

When you sanction a monarch, you are effectively sanctioning the entire house and certain state enterprises. Sanctioning MBS is a really, really, really dumb thing for Biden to do and doesn't actually accomplish much outside of freezing relations to make a few liberals happy lol. US-Saudi relations are a WHOLE LOT more than simply about weapons purchases. It's about military bases and countering AQ/ISIS. It's about American access to petrol and about Saudi infrastructural projects. It's about ensuring a half-century long investment isn't ruined by a single sociopathic dipshit that has the good fortune to be Crown Prince. Regardless, the argument was about Biden supposedly being a hypocrite for not instating sanctions on Saudi Arabia, a policy Biden instated in his first weeks of office. If you really want Biden to take a harder stance on SA, you should be demanding flight bans for the entirety of Tiger Squad and an isolation of MBS' mechanisms for soft power.

Sure, it is completely dumb for us to sanction the monarch himself even when we are all aware of the lack of democracy and his human rights violations, but remember that this gives us enough moral reasons to point fingers on Russia and sanction its president, because it allows us to demand him to solve his domestic issues in which we are so concern of as in Saudi Arabia, of course, we cannot forget our economic relations either, we buy oil from them, they buy arms from us, that's pretty much how it works. It doesn't even matter if they use these weapons in Yemen as long as it benefits our interests, because the more they persist in staying and bombing Yemen, the more they need to buy weapons from us, which allows us to buy oil from them, so it's all good. This makes our foreign policy so much better, you can imagine how much it has helped in resolving conflicts that have been going on for years. I mean, just look at Iraq, Syria and Libya, aren't those perfect examples for you?

 

[boo836]

Sure, it is completely dumb for us to sanction the monarch himself even when we are all aware of the lack of democracy and his human rights violations, but remember that this gives us enough moral reasons to point fingers on Russia and sanction its president, because it allows us to demand him to solve his domestic issues in which we are so concern of as in Saudi Arabia, of course, we cannot forget our economic relations either, we buy oil from them, they buy arms from us, that's pretty much how it works. It doesn't even matter if they use these weapons in Yemen as long as it benefits our interests, because the more they persist in staying and bombing Yemen, the more they need to buy weapons from us, which allows us to buy oil from them, so it's all good. This makes our foreign policy so much better, you can imagine how much it has helped in resolving conflicts that have been going on for years. I mean, just look at Iraq, Syria and Libya, aren't those perfect examples for you?

I love how this person clearly doesn't give a shit about any moral position and is just trying to find excuses for not sanctioning fascist Russia. Every single argument you've come up with basically amounts to WHADDABOWT SAWDEEZ despite the fact that sanctions have been instated on Saudi entities. Even better is now you're asking WHADDABOWT SEEREEA despite the fact that US foreign policy has consistently been to keep the Assad regime in power. You've clearly got absolutely no clue about what you're talking about but it doesn't seem to matter to you. What matters to you is a performance of outrage over sanctions on Putin.

 

[Wizarus]

I'm not as strong as I should be on foreign policy, but what effects would a US sanction on Russia have on Europe? Don't they depend on Russia for oil more than anyone else?

 

[boo836]

I'm not as strong as I should be on foreign policy, but what effects would a US sanction on Russia have on Europe? Don't they depend on Russia for oil more than anyone else?

Right now, sanctions haven't affected the oil trade, except for entities involved in organised crime. That's likely to change when the Americans and Germans formalise their spat over Nordstream 2. Sanctions hasn't really affected Europe though. Russia had a really weak GDP even before 2014, and its impact on European industries isn't significant outside of the petrol sector.

 

[Myzozoa]

always nice to see the growth of russian shills on the pokemon forums nowadays, but it must be expensive to pay zerses salary for a country with such a low gdp, maybe thats why I haven't gotten my shill stimulus check yet, they can only afford to pay one of us. It's p rich to suggest that US has consistently supported Assad, I mean spending a billion dollars to arm rebels against him is real supportive by some standards I guess. Also funny that the big 'I'm not a russian shill, ur a russian shill' guy in the thread thinks US support for Assad is somehow a good thing (personally as a confirmed russian shill I support Assad so this confirmation that these ppl are so confused about basic matters of geopolitics really warms my heart) when Syria is probably russia's biggest ally in the region. It's a shame my bro DJ Trump isn't in power any more since he really understood russian interests and did a good job ending resistance to the Assad administration by US actors.

 

[boo836]

always nice to see the growth of russian shills on the pokemon forums nowadays, but it must be expensive to pay zerses salary for a country with such a low gdp, maybe thats why I haven't gotten my shill stimulus check yet, they can only afford to pay one of us. It's p rich to suggest that US has consistently supported Assad, I mean spending a billion dollars to arm rebels against him is real supportive by some standards I guess. Also funny that the big 'I'm not a russian shill, ur a russian shill' guy in the thread thinks US support for Assad is somehow a good thing (personally as a confirmed russian shill I support Assad so this confirmation that these ppl are so confused about basic matters of geopolitics really warms my heart) when Syria is probably russia's biggest ally in the region. It's a shame my bro DJ Trump isn't in power any more since he really understood russian interests and did a good job ending resistance to the Assad administration by US actors.

i love how you have absolutely nothing to contribute beyond making insinuations of paranoia. US foreign policy has always been to keep Assad in power. Not only has that been explicitly stated by the White House during two different administrations, it's self-evident in the United States' refusal to engage the SAA. The idea the US wants Assad overthrown is a conspiracy theory.

 

[gvmgvm40]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-34385354

 

[boo836]

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-34385354

These sorts of statements impress on the public Russia and iran's support of Assad, they do not amount to any change in policy. The Americans put no serious effort in ousting Assad, even in Obama's term.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-haley-idUSKBN1712QL

 

[MrHands]

If the US seriously wanted Assad gone it would happen in a week. Maybe even in less than an hour. At any given time there's a carrier group in or around the Persian Gulf ready and willing to use as much of that 700 billion dollar military budget as it can. Obviously US goal in Syria isn't strictly regime change or else it would have happened years ago.

The entire Syrian conflict has been various US politicians saying "we don't like Assad and will do everything we can to remove him from power except for US boots on the ground" aka "we aren't going to get involved enough to make a difference". It's been clear ever since Obama's "red line" was crossed and nothing fucking happened that the US has no interest in regime change in Syria, especially give the history of Afghanistan + Iraq. The only reason anyone gives a fuck about Syria is to bleed Russia a bit with minimal effort on our part. Oh sure if a friendly rebel group somehow manages to defeat Russia + Syria on its own the US will cheer but that obviously isn't going to happen.

 

[Hipmonlee]

USA famously has had great outcomes by funding anti-russian rebels in the past.

 

[Zerses]

I love how this person clearly doesn't give a shit about any moral position and is just trying to find excuses for not sanctioning fascist Russia. Every single argument you've come up with basically amounts to WHADDABOWT SAWDEEZ despite the fact that sanctions have been instated on Saudi entities. Even better is now you're asking WHADDABOWT SEEREEA despite the fact that US foreign policy has consistently been to keep the Assad regime in power. You've clearly got absolutely no clue about what you're talking about but it doesn't seem to matter to you. What matters to you is a performance of outrage over sanctions on Putin.

I knew you'd get this mad, otherwise I wouldn't have posted all that jaja. The fact that you say I don't give a shit about any moral position as if Biden has ever had one seems utterly ridiculous to me, you're not the one to talk about moral positions when you've been trying to justify sanctions on Russia and Putin but not Saudi Arabia and MBS, who's a human rights violator. All you say is that sanctions have been placed on a few officials, but in fact they haven't done the same on the House of Saud and its entities. I could care less if this goes against US interests, because nothing justifies the actions taken against Russia, China and many other countries compared to the Saudi regime. Also, you clearly don't even know what's going on in Syria's situation to be saying such a stupid thing about it.

If the US seriously wanted Assad gone it would happen in a week. Maybe even in less than an hour. At any given time there's a carrier group in or around the Persian Gulf ready and willing to use as much of that 700 billion dollar military budget as it can. Obviously US goal in Syria isn't strictly regime change or else it would have happened years ago.

The entire Syrian conflict has been various US politicians saying "we don't like Assad and will do everything we can to remove him from power except for US boots on the ground" aka "we aren't going to get involved enough to make a difference". It's been clear ever since Obama's "red line" was crossed and nothing fucking happened that the US has no interest in regime change in Syria, especially give the history of Afghanistan + Iraq. The only reason anyone gives a fuck about Syria is to bleed Russia a bit with minimal effort on our part. Oh sure if a friendly rebel group somehow manages to defeat Russia + Syria on its own the US will cheer but that obviously isn't going to happen.

It is well known that the US supports mercenaries (wrongly named rebels/opposition) to fight against Assad's forces, it's just another nonsense regime change made by erroneus foreign policies. They have not thought of directly participate in the conflict because they wouldn't be able to overthrow Assad either, so they choose to arm mercenaries rather than do the dirty work by themselves, which is not only a coward thing to do, but has proven not to work and further fuel the conflict. There is not much to say on this, everything else you said is fakery, go name me any war since Vietnam in which the US was directly involved in the conflict and it turned out the way they wanted it to, lol.

 

[boo836]

I knew you'd get this mad, otherwise I wouldn't have posted all that jaja. The fact that you say I don't give a shit about any moral position as if Biden has ever had one seems utterly ridiculous to me, you're not the one to talk about moral positions when you've been trying to justify sanctions on Russia and Putin but not Saudi Arabia and MBS, who's a human rights violator. All you say is that sanctions have been placed on a few officials, but in fact they haven't done the same on the House of Saud and its entities. I could care less if this goes against US interests, because nothing justifies the actions taken against Russia, China and many other countries compared to the Saudi regime. Also, you clearly don't even know what's going on in Syria's situation to be saying such a stupid thing about it.

It is well known that the US supports mercenaries (wrongly named rebels/opposition) to fight against Assad's forces, it's just another nonsense regime change made by erroneus foreign policies. They have not thought of directly participate in the conflict because they wouldn't be able to overthrow Assad either, so they choose to arm mercenaries rather than do the dirty work by themselves, which is not only a coward thing to do, but has proven not to work and further fuel the conflict. There is not much to say on this, everything else you said is fakery, go name me any war since Vietnam in which the US was directly involved in the conflict and it turned out the way they wanted it to, lol.

lmao@ calling hundreds of thousands of democratic revolutionaries "mercenaries." You're now tacking on regime propaganda with more of the same whataboutism. You're arguing against sanctions on Putin on the basis of MBS not being directly sanctioned. The idea that everyone should avoid punishment because one user on a Pokemon forum isn't happy about another criminal avoiding (personal) sanction is absurd.

 

[lilyhollow]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4954085/user-clip-ch

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4954081/user-clip-cf

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4954088/user-clip-ct

US trying to be 'tough on china' is turning out great. watching this guy lecture them for like 20 straight minutes was very entertaining

 

[lilyhollow]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393707042771283969

what a great president/country

 

[nui]

wrong side of history yet again

 

[brightobject]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393707042771283969

what a great president/country

just showing the follow-up tweet:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1393707044251881472

Meanwhile Biden talks to Abbas about "peaceful coexistence" and "Strengthening the US-Palestinian partnership" while we literally funnel billions into the regime with its foot on their neck. What a pathetic attempt to 'both sides' the situation.

i mean tbf we know biden has BEEN sipping the israel kool aid...

based biden saying the quiet part out loud

so im not too surprised but it still rly sucked to see him downplay some rly unprecedented slaughter / war crimes on israel's part this time around.

Any of yall in the U.S., now would be a great time to try writing some emails to yr local reps about H.R. 2590 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2590). Lots of simple tools to send a bunch of emails quickly (I used RESISTBOT) and every bit helps-Israel's catching a lot of flak for this rn so...maybe theres some hope here.

 

[lilyhollow]

this thread maybe won't be so active anymore but I'll at least post this as well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1405943810648117255