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Let's Go is likely in an alternate canon to the other mainline Kanto games, considering the story revolves around different player characters and rival plus Red has a totally different role in that canon. I personally headcanon most remakes as being in alternate universe canons to the originals and LGPE is most definitely in an AU from RBY and FRLG universes.
As for the rest though, it's worth noting the first four regions of Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh are all based on regions of Japan and are generally eastern regions, while Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar are all based on western places, and canonically they are all incredibly distant from the first four to the point where many media have shown you need a plane to get from Kanto to those regions. Perhaps Eevee is in general a Pokemon naturally native to the western parts of the Pokemon world like Unova, Kalos, etc. while it was imported into the first four regions which are closer together and likely on the opposite side of the Pokeglobe from the other regions. I dunno, maybe that's the overall idea maybe?
That being said, Eevee was strangely absent from BW1 so that raises questions as to whether it's truly a Unova native to begin with since a lot of Pokemon previously unknown to Unova somehow showed up in the interim between BW1 and BW2.
Several of the routes with Eevee are next to the more urbanized areas of the region (the alola routes are near the ranch, but also near some of the main tourist areas and the superstore), which could support the idea that those populations are a result of Eevee having been brought to those cities at some earlier time. This sort of thing happens with some frequency IRL with pet species, which Eevee seems to fit in as. Interestingly, the two exceptions to this seem to be Kalos and Galar, which if we're comparing to Earth are both geographically the closest and have been historically known for long-distance trade and colonization.
Not to say that the Kanto Cycling Road isn't in a bad spot environmentally. Its GSC encounter table consists of just Fearow, Grimer/Muk, and Slugma. The generous interpretation is that it was downwind of the Cinnabar eruption, but I have my doubts that's the entire explanation.
Several of the routes with Eevee are next to the more urbanized areas of the region (the alola routes are near the ranch, but also near some of the main tourist areas and the superstore), which could support the idea that those populations are a result of Eevee having been brought to those cities at some earlier time. This sort of thing happens with some frequency IRL with pet species, which Eevee seems to fit in as. Interestingly, the two exceptions to this seem to be Kalos and Galar, which if we're comparing to Earth are both geographically the closest and have been historically known for long-distance trade and colonization.
That would also go with one of Eevee's Ultra Moon dex description: "Its genes are easily influenced by its surroundings. Even its face starts to look like that of its Trainer".
While the first sentence doesn't really tell us anything new about Eevee that other dex entries do, the second one does. Eevee's face starts to resemble its trainer? Now, what advantage does that hold for Eevee for it to develop this biological mechanic? Well, a more human face, especially one that is familiar or is baby/child-like, usually makes a person more sympathetic toward the one with the face. And for this to even happen it would have to be many generations of the Eevee species being kept as pets/partners by humans. Hence that alone shows a strong connection between Eevee and humanity and, combining what you said, could very well mean Eevee populations in urbanized area or places where a lot of historical human travel happened through doesn't mean a "natural" habitat but possibly an adopted/migrated one.
I can forgive a lot of things and suspend disbelief relatively far but I just can't stop being annoyed by how Indigo Plateau went from being slightly north of Pewter City to being far south of it.
I can forgive a lot of things and suspend disbelief relatively far but I just can't stop being annoyed by how Indigo Plateau went from being slightly north of Pewter City to being far south of it.
Like, maybe, because the biggest issue isn't exactly with the Pokemon League but rather with Victory Road (and it's new layout). Gen I Victory Road was at the very end of Route 23 after all the Badge checkers. Gen II Victory Road is essentially where Route 23 would have started. Unless the Badge Gate's door leads underground which we don't see, there's suddenly a cave system where the majority of Route 23 used to be. All that's left of Route 23 is a small bit before the Pokemon League building which in HGSS didn't even get it's own location indicator.
Either from a Tyranitar or by some other means, maybe a giant landside, Route 23 got covered by a massive amount of rock & dirt. But instead of digging it out, only to use it as a fancy passageway, they decided to just build the Badge Gate on Route 22, have just one guy check to see if you have all the Badges, dug a new Victory Road, and build a new Pokemon League closer. Go northwest of Pewter City and you'll probably find the abandoned old League building, likely a lot of it torn down to re-use ornamentations from it. Thinking about it probably would have made for a neat location to visit.
Either from a Tyranitar or by some other means, maybe a giant landside, Route 23 got covered by a massive amount of rock & dirt. But instead of digging it out, only to use it as a fancy passageway, they decided to just build the Badge Gate on Route 22, have just one guy check to see if you have all the Badges, dug a new Victory Road, and build a new Pokemon League closer. Go northwest of Pewter City and you'll probably find the abandoned old League building, likely a lot of it torn down to re-use ornamentations from it. Thinking about it probably would have made for a neat location to visit.
Oh god this sounds amazing, I wish so much this had happened
EDIT: This actually works so well since the Pewter City map in GSC is bordered by grass rather than a rock wall; I always wanted to go beyond the fence and see what was on the other side.
In Gen I it was only a Gift Pokemon, possibly hinting it not being native to Kanto.
In Gen II you can get multiple via redeeming them from the Game Corner, but that doesn't mean they're native.
Gen III it was once again only a Gift Pokemon for FRLG and XD.
Gen IV will see the first time Eevee is widely available to catch in the wild in Sinnoh... but with a twist. It's via the Trophy Garden and the gimmick there is that the owner of the garden, Mr. Backlot, brags about his garden crawling with a non-native Pokemon and, not to embarrass their employee, the his maids get a whole batch of the Pokemon he says he has and release them in the garden. Otherwise its a Gift Pokemon or multiple can be redeemed from via HGSS's Game Corner; There was also the Sightseeing course in the Pokewalker but you could only get that by attending a Nintendo Event (and from it looks like it was only released in Japan and Korea).
Gen V, finally after 16 (Japan)/14 (International) years, it's revealed in B2W2 that Eevees have a native habitat deep within Castelia City. I remember people sort of making a deal about this, some even saying this possibly means Eevee is actually a Unovan Pokemon that was just brought over to every other region due to how popular it was.
... AND then in Gen VI/Kalos they just had Eevee openly available on Route 10. Then in Gen VII/Alola on Route 4 & 6. And now Gen VIII/Galar on Route 4.
Oh, but I skipped an important game: Let's Go. Not counting the Partner Eevee which Professor Oak catches on Route 1 in the Eevee version, the game finally included a habitat in Kanto for it: Route 17. What was Route 17 in the original game? The Cycling Road, which in Let's Go is called "Pokemon Road" and is now more of a garden walkway. In the original games there was a small patch of grass leading up to Route 16 where you could encounter wild Pokemon, but otherwise the Cycling Road was devoid of wild encounters. But in Let's Go it has plenty of grass patches along the road spawning plenty of Pokemon (including Chansey). So, this makes me wonder, in the non-LG games, could the reason Eevee couldn't be found in Kanto be because they built the Cycling Road over its only natural habitat?
Outside of the whole gameplay/game mechanics situation (aka by Gen VI, only yielding one free Eevee per playthrough wasn't going to fly with eight evolution options), it makes as much sense as anything regarding Eevee's origin.
I always viewed it the same way as I did with starters in the wild. They are there but the Player Character isn't privy to their whereabouts. Very little about Pokemon placement makes sense unless you are viewing it through the lens of a game.
Isn't it easier to just say they're like our dogs and cats, and are fully domesticated, which means they can only be found in human breeding areas? It'd explain any wild appearence as them being invasive species (which means alola is filled with invasive starter species, just like real life hawaii)
Just started rereading the GSC manga and something occurred to me: it's the only canon in which we actually know the origin and the function of the GS Ball.
Consider: in the anime, the GS Ball just turns up in the Orange Islands. Professor Ivy has it but where it actually came from isn't specified. As we all know, Ash and friends collect it from her and deliver it to Kurt in Johto, where it stayed and hasn't been heard from since.
Whereas in the manga, we see it manufactured - it's created by
Pryce using Ho-oh and Lugia's feathers
and used to capture Celebi to prevent the holder from suffering any negative effects while time travelling.
The games are even more confused. USUM made a sort of half-hearted stab at explaining the GS Ball's origins, with an NPC mentioning that GS stands for "greatest smith's ball" (or "Gantetsu's Superb Ball" in Japan - Gantetsu being Kurt's name there). The thing is, while that's nice (and more interesting than Gold and Silver Ball), it doesn't really make sense. Kurt didn't make the ball in the games. The player is delivered it by a Pokemon Centre Nurse, much as with later gen event items like the Member's Card or the Azure Flute, and it's explicit that it's not made by him, unless he's lying:
"Wh-what is that? I've never seen one before."
The ball then somehow starts reacting (either because of his tinkering with it or because of its proximity to Ilex Forest) and the player can put it in the shrine to catch Celebi. Interestingly, unlike most of the other event items, you can't get it back once it's been used.
Why it actually attracts Celebi in the first place, or what its original function was, is never addressed. The only item description the game provides is "the mysterious ball", which is incredibly helpful if what you wanted was a statement of the bleeding obvious. HGSS, of course, left it out entirely - which is probably one of the most disappointing things about those games.
The games are even more confused. USUM made a sort of half-hearted stab at explaining the GS Ball's origins, with an NPC mentioning that GS stands for "greatest smith's ball" (or "Gantetsu's Superb Ball" in Japan - Gantetsu being Kurt's name there). The thing is, while that's nice (and more interesting than Gold and Silver Ball), it doesn't really make sense. Kurt didn't make the ball in the games. The player is delivered it by a Pokemon Centre Nurse, much as with later gen event items like the Member's Card or the Azure Flute, and it's explicit that it's not made by him, unless he's lying:
"Wh-what is that? I've never seen one before."
The ball then somehow starts reacting (either because of his tinkering with it or because of its proximity to Ilex Forest) and the player can put it in the shrine to catch Celebi. Interestingly, unlike most of the other event items, you can't get it back once it's been used.
Why it actually attracts Celebi in the first place, or what its original function was, is never addressed. The only item description the game provides is "the mysterious ball", which is incredibly helpful if what you wanted was a statement of the bleeding obvious. HGSS, of course, left it out entirely - which is probably one of the most disappointing things about those games.
Well, has there ever been a theory that the GS Ball itself is from the future? That would immediately explain Celebi's attraction to it, it's an object misplaced from time.
Who knows, maybe there's this time loop thing going on. Like, sometime in the future, Kurt make his own GS Ball, only for Celebi to take it into the past so that it can be discovered, given to the player, player shows it to Kurt which in the future will inspire him to make the GS Ball, and the player then puts it in the shrine to summon Celebi.
Why would Celebi do this? Who knows, maybe it has to do with how it's time travel works, like for some reason the GS Ball is an item where only once of it can exist at any point in time so Celebi needs to bring it back in time before it was made, thus also making it a tether which it can use to time travel.
Really the more I think about it the more it feels like no part of the GS Ball was thought out beyond "plot hook for orange islands"
We get no explanation of who made it, why, how it relates to celebi, why it relates to celebi, it never shows up again, the plotline was dropped in the anime entirely...the gs ball wasn't even in gold & silver!
The GS ball first shows up/mentioned in January 1999, but with anime lead times means that had to have been planned probably 3-6 months ahead of time so somewhere in the June~September 98 time. But Celebi as a concept was barely off the ground then! the ball probably didn't even have a plan at all until they were working on the johto anime!
And by that point they already decided to kill the idea so celebi could be the focus of the movie.
So apparently there was a physical Pokedex book released concurrently with Pokemon Red and Green's release in Japan that was never localized. The book contains a lot of interesting details, but the one I found the most interesting is that it's 100% intentional that Nidorina and Nidoqueen are unable to breed. Female Nidoran becoming sterile upon evolution was part of the lore from the very beginning, even before Gen 2 introduced breeding as a game mechanic.
It's interesting that the Primeape entry mentions that the discovery of the pokeball involved giving a primeape too many drugs until it essentially passed out. It implies that the poke balls use some sort of drug to dull the pokemon and allow it to be captured. TBH that's not too surprising of an explanation but also understandable that it's never been mentioned in game.
Really the more I think about it the more it feels like no part of the GS Ball was thought out beyond "plot hook for orange islands"
We get no explanation of who made it, why, how it relates to celebi, why it relates to celebi, it never shows up again, the plotline was dropped in the anime entirely...the gs ball wasn't even in gold & silver!
The GS ball first shows up/mentioned in January 1999, but with anime lead times means that had to have been planned probably 3-6 months ahead of time so somewhere in the June~September 98 time. But Celebi as a concept was barely off the ground then! the ball probably didn't even have a plan at all until they were working on the johto anime!
And by that point they already decided to kill the idea so celebi could be the focus of the movie.
Gym Leader Interactions: Note of course this is an anime thing, in the games the Gym Leaders seem to know each other well enough. Now in the games this is likely because there are only 8 Gyms per Gym Challenge League; meanwhile the anime takes a more realistic approach that a region is pretty much as big as a country so there are dozens of Gyms in each region. I feel that is an important detail to remember because now it's kind of understandable why the Gym Leaders wouldn't really know each other cause instead of there just being 7 others its over 70 others (okay, maybe that's a bit of a exaggeration, though I'd say maybe at least a Gym Leader or two (possibly even three in certain cases) for each Type is probably more of a reasonable assumption). So, meeting the other Gym Leaders have been explained away, so how about just knowing about the other Gym Leaders even the ones nearby. Now that's something the anime is guilty of, understandable for a world with dozens of Gym Leaders you wouldn't know the ones from faraway towns/cities, but neighboring towns/cities they really don't have an excuse why they don't.
This post from another thread got me wondering about Gyms. It's still (deliberately, I'm sure) so vague how they run after eight generations.
Now, obviously, there are official gyms and unofficial ones (that is, Pokemon League-endorsed and not) and official ones have to be up to a certain standard. In the anime Forrest has to prove that the Pewter Gym is up to scratch - one of the adaptations mentions that if a Gym Leader loses three times in a row, they are stripped of their title, and the manga has a qualifying test where none of the candidate's team can faint.
The games have eight gyms in each region and seemingly only those eight. Gameplay and story segregation obviously plays a role in this, but there are occasional indications to there being more gyms than the ones the player sees. Brendan and May in RSE imply that Slateport getting a gym is an inevitability, but it's ambiguous whether they mean that one will be opened for no particular reason or that it won't get one until another gym in a different area shuts down and they need an eighth one somewhere else. Galar does seem all-but-confirmed to have one gym for each type - the gyms not visited by the player are just minor league ones. So presumably, the minor league gyms do not count towards entering the Pokemon League - it's unclear if they can give out badges unless they're major, but it would appear not.
The anime, as mentioned, does have multiple gyms: these appear to be both official ones - since we see trainers in all of the first six regions with unidentified badges - and unofficial ones, like AJ's Gym and the Kas and Yas Gyms in Dark City, both of which are trying to get certified.
It's interesting that the unofficial gyms we see never share a type with established ones. So does that imply that there is - or can only be - one Gym of each type in a region? It certainly seems this way in the games. In Unova we see that Cheren literally takes over the Normal-type mantle from Leonora - he even gives out the same badge. If she was still operating, would he have had to choose a different type? If nothing else it seems kind of pointless for people to set up multiple gyms of the same type when you could just go and train at one that's already there. A swimmer in Unova mentions that he will seek out Water Gyms in different regions - why would he need to do this if Unova had more than one of its own? In B2W2, Marlon is inferred to have only recently opened his Gym - could he not have opened it if Cilan, Chili, and Cress were still running theirs?
What also seems concrete is that it's only one gym per area. Cilan, Chili, and Cress do not operate separate gyms, even though they logically should - instead, they run one together. Sabrina famously challenges the Karate King for the right to be Saffron's official gym - the idea that the city could simply have had two gyms was clearly not on the cards. Because of this, it does not give out a badge. So does Kanto no longer have a Fighting-type gym? Would they have to set up elsewhere to be one?
So yeah I'm curious as to whether there's only one gym of each type allowed in each region or whether any old Tom, Dick, or Harry can start setting them up as and when they like. Given the weird cult of personality the Blackthorn Gym has around Dragon usage it's hard to imagine them tolerating another Dragon gym in Johto (or in Kanto come to that). Or Sabrina allowing any pretender Psychic gyms in Kanto to exist.
I always viewed it in the anime as there are tons of Gyms some harder than others and ones of duplicate types in order to make up the number of participants seen in the League competitions. Ash, due to being the merchandise protagonist, had to fight the in-game ones. The anime is inconsistent at times on it but it is the only way that makes sense. Some of the Gym Leaders (Sabrina, Volkner, Olympia) are portrayed as nearly unbeatable and others (Clay and Lt. Surge) don't appear to scale their teams via the opposing trainer's skill level. If Ash struggled with them (grant it, Ash narrowly wins for the sake of drama) and Ash being a top-tier trainer (He is. The man recruited a new team in every region and after Indigo got at least in the top 8 in every league), then the average Joey trainer isn't beating those guys within a ton of chances. Since some leagues like Hoenn had over 200 applicants for a yearly conference either the badges roll out or there are tons of gyms but we don't see them as Ash is predestined to fight the canon eight.
I always viewed it in the anime as there are tons of Gyms some harder than others and ones of duplicate types in order to make up the number of participants seen in the League competitions. Ash, due to being the merchandise protagonist, had to fight the in-game ones. The anime is inconsistent at times on it but it is the only way that makes sense.
[...]
Since some leagues like Hoenn had over 200 applicants for a yearly conference either the badges roll out or there are tons of gyms but we don't see them as Ash is predestined to fight the canon eight.
In the manga anyone can enter into an elimination contest for the Kanto Pokemon League (the rules for the others are a bit different) but anyone who has 8 gym badges is allowed to skip the tournament (presumably so as not to have to mingle with the riff-raff) and go right through to the finals. Hoenn and Unova's Pokemon Leagues both mandate that only trainers with eight badges can enter.
We see other ways of being admitted to the League, though: the anime also has that school that allows people to take an exam in lieu of travelling around to collect badges.
It also needn't be that one must collect eight badges from their chosen region, either. Sakura (of the Kimono Girls) is shown to be collecting badges from both Kanto and Johto in the anime. Presumably a total of eight would qualify her to compete in the League. When you arrive at the Pokemon League reception gate in GSC/HGSS the guard stops you and then says "oh! The eight badges of Johto!" That's a slightly strange phrasing and suggests to me that eight badges from any region would have been sufficient (but again, gameplay and story segregation is in play).
Some of the Gym Leaders (Sabrina, Volkner, Olympia) are portrayed as nearly unbeatable and others (Clay and Lt. Surge) don't appear to scale their teams via the opposing trainer's skill level. If Ash struggled with them (grant it, Ash narrowly wins for the sake of drama) and Ash being a top-tier trainer (He is. The man recruited a new team in every region and after Indigo got at least in the top 8 in every league), then the average Joey trainer isn't beating those guys within a ton of chances.
Surge's gym is an interesting example because we see loads of challengers who failed against him - most of them are kids with presumably not-very-well-trained weakmons like Caterpie and Rattata. Ash only prevails because he carefully thought about Surge's weakness and exploited it. Presumably he's not the only person ever to have accomplished that. Otoshi, the trainer with the Marowak from the anime, has a Thunderbadge, so it's not as if no-one ever defeated Surge. But evidently not many people did - Gary doesn't have one.
Also, the concept of gym leaders switching up their teams to account for different experience levels (like we see Brock do in Origins) wasn't really a thing at that point though in this case it seems more down to Surge just being an asshole.
I think the games give the wrong impression about how easy Gym Leaders are supposed to be to defeat (note the tendency of Gym Leaders in the games to operate near areas full of Pokemon strong against them, like Lt Surge near Diglett's Cave or Lenora near Pinwheel Forest). There's an adaptation manga which states that Gym Leaders who lose more than three times in a row are stripped of their title, so they clearly aren't meant to hold back against opponents. This is the thing with Volkner - he just hasn't faced any tough trainers until the player comes along. It's less that he's unbeatable and more that no-one is up to the challenge.
But there being potentially 15 gyms in Kanto (or more) leaves trainers some measure of choice. If you can't beat Sabrina, simply go elsewhere and try your luck with a different gym*. Gary also doesn't have a Marshbadge so presumably he either couldn't beat her or didn't make the attempt at all.
*though Sabrina is a fairly extreme example given that she had turned rather unhinged and was transforming most of her challengers into dolls
It also needn't be that one must collect eight badges from their chosen region, either. Sakura (of the Kimono Girls) is shown to be collecting badges from both Kanto and Johto in the anime. Presumably a total of eight would qualify her to compete in the League. When you arrive at the Pokemon League reception gate in GSC/HGSS the guard stops you and then says "oh! The eight badges of Johto!" That's a slightly strange phrasing and suggests to me that eight badges from any region would have been sufficient (but again, gameplay and story segregation is in play).
Well, Kanto and Johto share a League (the Indigo League), so I think for the Indigo League they allow both Kanto and Johto badges. However if you come to the Indigo League with some Hoenn Badges I'd imagine the gatekeeper will say that the Hoenn Badges are not recognized Badges for the Indigo League.
No, that's something that was thought up by the original anime series chief writer, Takeshi Shudo (BTW, the guy was wild and he had plenty of strange ideas about the Pokemon World). As opposed to the ideal utopia Pokemon sometimes present itself, he rather had a bleak outlook how things were run, especially with the Pokemon League: a strict "3 loses in a row & you're fired" policy, Gym Leaders weren't paid well, & Gyms cost a lot to run. It was apparently meant to explain why Brock and Misty had no parents because their parents ran away because they were one loss away from losing the Gym thus them running away leaving the Gym to their kids apparently reset the 3 loses in a row rule?
Obviously, this isn't the actual case. It was never mentioned in the anime proper anyway so something that was easily "retcon".
Though I would like maybe one game going into the details about how one becomes a Gym Leader and all the complexities that comes with it, including life style changes the new Gym Leader may have to do & deal with. Both of the recent games had a chance to do that, with Alola just started the creation of its League and Galar being all about the Gym Challenge culture, but sadly no.
Being Gary almost has a completely different set of Badges (plus 2 additional) and that at the very beginning he had a CAR I imagined Gary probably took a much different route than Ash who followed the games path for obvious reasons.
Sorry for double-posting, I have no idea how I missed the few other posts above green_typhlosion's most recent post. Normally I would wait for someone else to post, but I want to respond to a few of these cause they have interesting stuff, and I don't want to edit my post as no one would know I commented on the stuff. If a mod disagrees I apologize and please merge it with my above post.
So apparently there was a physical Pokedex book released concurrently with Pokemon Red and Green's release in Japan that was never localized. The book contains a lot of interesting details, but the one I found the most interesting is that it's 100% intentional that Nidorina and Nidoqueen are unable to breed. Female Nidoran becoming sterile upon evolution was part of the lore from the very beginning, even before Gen 2 introduced breeding as a game mechanic.
1:51: 2 million years ago, huh. Ignoring that Omanyte is based on an Ammonite which are 419.2 - 358.9 Mya, Kabuto on a Trilobite which are 541 - 485.4 Mya (or a horseshoe crab which date back to 240 Mya) & Aerodactyl is based on a pterosaur which are 228 - 66 Mya. Want to know how far back 2 Mya is? That's pretty much when the first humans appeared and giant mammals such as the mammoth walked the Earth, very much far away from all current Fossil Pokemon.
1:57: It took academia until the 1700s to start studying Pokemon even though they've been around for millions of years? Did the Pokemon World not have a Renaissance? No philosophers in ancient Greece, China or anywhere else took a crack at observing the Pokemon around them? Also I see what you did there Satoshi Tajiri. :P
2:00: What do you mean by only 30 discovered? Even assuming you've counted an entire evolution line as one species, in Gen I there was 63 com mon families (not counting Starters, Legendaries, Fossils, Magnemite family, Voltorb family, Ditto, Porygon). Which were the 30 were "discovered" and why were the rest not?
2:14: German, Spain, & Italy, got it, let the speculation which one of those regions are next begin!
2:30: So just want to note that Japan has books and records about Yokai even before the first millennium, yet in the Pokemon World it took Japan till the late 1800s.
2:46: NO ONE EVER SAW A PIKACHU EVOLVE INTO A RAICHU BEFORE THAN?! And "new phase of discovery", please do not tell me that means no one knew Pokemon "evolved" before...
2:54: Oh, so when they said 30 they actually did mean 30 individual species. What, did Baron Tajirin not bother looking no further than outside of his neighborhood? EDIT (from 12:14): Oh, it was a development reference to how they thought they could only fit 30 Pokemon in a GB cart until Miyamoto gave them a new GB cart that could hold more data. I guess that's neat, still makes the Baron look shortsighted though. Like, when they say "discover" do they mean "recorded", because I can see that.
3:02: Pfft, "efforts of Professor Oak"; yeah, was real hard of him sending out two kids to explore the entire Kanto region (which conveniently had all species of Pokemon at that moment) while he sat back drinking tea waiting for the dex data to come in.
5:06: "The oceans haven't changed much since 2 million years". You can just imagine the seething of marine biologists from that rather incredibly stupid statement.
8:44 (Meowth/Why Able To Talk): So Tajiri had a scale of Pokemon intelligence where Meowth was the smartest. No doubt discarded, still curius where the first gen (and maybe 2nd gen, can't imagine lasting beyond that) fell on that chart and the reasoning for it. Also sounds like Tajiri put a lot of thought on said chart, so I'm also curious what he felt when it became clear the chart wasn't meant to be (or did he simply forget about it as time went on, knowing it was a dud so moved on without a second thought to it?).
9:12 (Mankey/Always Angry): Um, whatever happened to Grassland Pokemon being people-friendly and placid?
9:53 (Primeape/How the Poke Ball Was Invented): ... Wait, what? So the invention of the Poke Ball came about because Prof. Nishinomori was experimenting on a Primeape by giving it drugs (you know, for kids!), dopes it up too much, and this somehow caused it to curl up & shrink to fit inside a glasses case? What drugs was the Professor giving Primeape?! And how did this lead to the Poke Ball using mass-to-energy technology? I have a feeling this is maybe one tidbit that likely has been retcon.
10:23 (Hitmonchan/Unknown Habitat But Placed In Grasslands): Some top notch research there. "Um, we've never seen a Hitmonchan in their natural habitat before". "Eh, it's similar enough to Hitmonlee, just put it in the same habitat". But, if no one knows where they are, how was it discovered? Wouldn't where you discovered them be their habitat?
16:12 (Nidorina/Unable To Breed): AND here's the fact that has a lot of people talking. It wasn't a mistake, it was planned all along that Nidorina and Nidoqueen were unable to breed. Two questions: One, why? Like, was it supposed to be a reference to menopause? If it was, note Nidoran evolves at Level 16. Yes, I know, Level doesn't mean age, but still I feel like if they were going for this angle that Nidorina should evolve at a higher level. In Gen I there are plenty of basic stage Pokemon that evolving in their 30s and even 40s. Two, if this was supposed to be the case, WHY DO NEW NIDORINA AND NIDOQUEEN DEX ENTRIES MENTION OFFSPRING. Dex entries for Nidorina mentions offspring in Gold/HG/Y & Sword, and Nidoqueen mentions offspring in Silver/SS, all Hoenn games, DP/all Unova games/X, and Sword & Shield. Not to mention all the depictions of Nidoqueen & Nidoking with young Nidoran like a recent PokeToon. What, did ALL these Nidorina/Nidoqueen have offspring as a Nidoran then evolved as quickly as possible; they refuse to evolve until they have children and in the meanwhile keep a Moon Stone hidden nearby? That must be really awkward for any Nidorino/Nidoking partners, one moment their partner is half/less than a fifth their size, the next after laying some eggs they're as big as they are... WAIT, is this (also) a virginity metaphor? This is getting awkward, let's move on...
17:04 (Nidoran Male/Ladies Love Long Horns): So many innuendos... FOR KIDS!
18:25 (Exeggcute/Researchers Say They're The Same Seeds As Bulbasaur's Bulb): These same researchers are also all blind.
19:41 (Tangela/Resist Researcher Clippers To Discover Their Hidden Form): I've seen enough hentai to know where that was going...
21:06 (Lickitung/Significant Dex Number): Oh, wow, we've even gotten some "getting c*ap past the radar", lol!
21:38 (Scyther/Kills Prey): Also, this is still Woodland Pokemon, right? I thought they only ate nuts and berries (and were small)?
22:57 (Eevee/Unknown Habitat But Placed In Grasslands 2): Didn't they mention one of the habitat categories was unknown? These are two Pokemon now which habitat are unknown... but instead of placing Hitmonchan and Eevee there they just arbitrarily decided to classify them as Grassland!
24:45 (Onix/Height Goes By Length): Eh, for some Pokemon that are long. It's clear for other Pokemon (usually bipedal) height is referring feet to head while standing.
25:31 (Geodude/Geodude Fights): What dumba** kids are using Geodudes like they're snowballs? Are they trying to put each other in a coma... or dead?
27:26 (Machoke/Evolution Method Unknown): Okay, I get why they would want to hide how they evolve so that kids reading this manual would have to discover it on their own... but in order to get a Golem, Marchamp, Gengar, and Alakazam you need to trade so surely it's at least known they're evolutions and not a possibility. They could have just said "While (Pokemon) is an evolution of (Pokemon's prior evo), they don't evolve through training or special stones" and then maybe give vague hints how some were discovered to evolve like "One suddenly evolved when helping a friend/sibling/cousin/etc. do a task".
30:02 (Squirtle/Unknown Habitat But Placed In Water's-Edge): Okay, this is the last one I'll do this for.
33:05 (Blastoise/Originally Seperate From Squirtle Family): It would also explain why Blastoise dex entry didn't mention its most notable trait, its water cannons. But wait, these would mean they had Dex entries for Squritle's original final evo, so shouldn't that mean they had them for Blastoise and its original prevo? Gen I Dex entries mention the cannon, were those Blastoise original Dex entry or were those new ones made for it? Also, why keep the Ninetales entry mentioning "Blastoise" instead of switching it to Wartortle who still has the furry tail?
34:30 (Golduck/Swimming Speed): This isn't about Golduck but rather that "fastest swimmer chart". It shows Magikarp is the slowest and Dewgong is in the middle... and in the games Magikarp's Speed is 80 and Dewgong's is 70 (Golduck is 85). BTW, Seadra is just as fast as Golduck, Tentacruel's is 100, and the fastest Water-type is Starmie at 115.
It's interesting that the Primeape entry mentions that the discovery of the pokeball involved giving a primeape too many drugs until it essentially passed out. It implies that the poke balls use some sort of drug to dull the pokemon and allow it to be captured. TBH that's not too surprising of an explanation but also understandable that it's never been mentioned in game.
It didn't just pass out, it also curled up "like a fetus" and shrank until it fitted inside a glasses case!? And this led to the Poke Ball using mass-to-energy technology how?
This post from another thread got me wondering about Gyms. It's still (deliberately, I'm sure) so vague how they run after eight generations.
(...)
The games have eight gyms in each region and seemingly only those eight. Gameplay and story segregation obviously plays a role in this, but there are occasional indications to there being more gyms than the ones the player sees. Brendan and May in RSE imply that Slateport getting a gym is an inevitability, but it's ambiguous whether they mean that one will be opened for no particular reason or that it won't get one until another gym in a different area shuts down and they need an eighth one somewhere else. Galar does seem all-but-confirmed to have one gym for each type - the gyms not visited by the player are just minor league ones. So presumably, the minor league gyms do not count towards entering the Pokemon League - it's unclear if they can give out badges unless they're major, but it would appear not.
The anime, as mentioned, does have multiple gyms: these appear to be both official ones - since we see trainers in all of the first six regions with unidentified badges - and unofficial ones, like AJ's Gym and the Kas and Yas Gyms in Dark City, both of which are trying to get certified.
It's interesting that the unofficial gyms we see never share a type with established ones. So does that imply that there is - or can only be - one Gym of each type in a region? It certainly seems this way in the games. In Unova we see that Cheren literally takes over the Normal-type mantle from Leonora - he even gives out the same badge. If she was still operating, would he have had to choose a different type? If nothing else it seems kind of pointless for people to set up multiple gyms of the same type when you could just go and train at one that's already there. A swimmer in Unova mentions that he will seek out Water Gyms in different regions - why would he need to do this if Unova had more than one of its own? In B2W2, Marlon is inferred to have only recently opened his Gym - could he not have opened it if Cilan, Chili, and Cress were still running theirs?
What also seems concrete is that it's only one gym per area. Cilan, Chili, and Cress do not operate separate gyms, even though they logically should - instead, they run one together. Sabrina famously challenges the Karate King for the right to be Saffron's official gym - the idea that the city could simply have had two gyms was clearly not on the cards. Because of this, it does not give out a badge. So does Kanto no longer have a Fighting-type gym? Would they have to set up elsewhere to be one?
So yeah I'm curious as to whether there's only one gym of each type allowed in each region or whether any old Tom, Dick, or Harry can start setting them up as and when they like. Given the weird cult of personality the Blackthorn Gym has around Dragon usage it's hard to imagine them tolerating another Dragon gym in Johto (or in Kanto come to that). Or Sabrina allowing any pretender Psychic gyms in Kanto to exist.
I do think in the game's lore there is only 8 Gyms at any time for Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova, & Kalos. Of course, note that just because a region has 8 Gyms that doesn't mean two close by regions can't share a League as Kanto & Johto show by sharing the Indigo League (and the anime suggests a trainer wanting to enter Indigo League can use a mix of Kanto & Johto badges). Another interesting thing to note, Kanto and Johto Gym Leaders don't share a Type, so in the game world there is likely, for a region which restricts the number of Gyms to 8, that no Gym shares a Type (now this would look to even extend to Kanto & Johto, but Kanto did have a Fighting Gym before Sabrina took over with her Psychic Gym. So question becomes was the Fighting Dojo also a Gym at the same time as Chuck or was Chuck able to establish his Fighting Gym after they lost to the Sabrina and an unknown Johto Gym also closed down (Gyms can be the same Type as an Elite Four member, so the Johto Gym that closed down could have been either Dark (if League connected regions can't share a Type) or another Fighting (if League connected can share a Type).
Running a Gym seems to be intricately tied with also how a League runs. We got a view of how a League is formed in Alola, so let's start there. So, to start a League, seems like someone (or likely a group) who has a lot of influence and strength as a trainer wants to start one in a region which doesn't have one. The first thing to do seems to be going around and getting the various cities/towns trying to get support from the local communities and region government to do so while also looking and recruiting strong trainers to work for the League. A location to build the League Building is scouted and then, probably after a lot of discussion, built. By then the League should have at least an Elite Four ready, possibly even a designated preliminary Champion (though the original Kanto games and what went on in the Alola games may hint that a Champion isn't quite required until a trainer strong enough to defeat the Elite Four comes along). But after that things get fuzzy as seems like for Alola they may use the Island Challenge as a replacement for the Gym Challenge. So from here one it's speculation.
I would guess for most other regions, after establishing the League, they would then do a combination of scouting and making open calls for Gym Leaders. Rules seems to be as such: Only 8 slots are available (though a Gym can have multiple leaders & the leaders can use different Types but probably something you REALLY need to convince the League on), Only one in a City/Town, Can't share a Type with another Gym, Gym Leader has to be a strong trainer (likely there being a battle test to pass). While it's likely not a requirement, Gym Leaders also seem to be key figures in the Town/City they live in or at least become one when they become a Gym Leader so a Gym Leader would also have to be someone who can handle that kind of responsibility and pressure; to be a leader figure essentially. Also doesn't seem to matter whether the Gym Leader has another job/hobby, if anything it's possibly a benefit especially if that person owns a building (or at least has permission of one to use). Cause then after choosing a the 8 Leaders they need to build their Gyms and already the League costed money to make and Gyms, while one alone wouldn't cost as much as a League Building, all 8 together probably do (maybe even triple). If a Leader has a building already that makes things easier, all they would need to do is renovate the Gym as the Leader would like it, but if they don't they now need to buy or build a Gym. This brings in the major question of League funding: how does a Pokemon League fund itself? Who's flipping the bills and signing the (pay)checks? How supported are the Gyms? Are the Gyms expected to make money and provide a charitable service; do they have a choice or can only so many be a charitable service? If Gyms do earn money through business or donations does some of that money go to the League and; if so, how much?
Of course we may get of glimpse of this from Galar. Galar is a possible exception to some of the rules due to its culture being built on Pokemon battles. Galar has a Gym for each Type and it's during the yearly Champion Cup do they have the Gyms battle one another to decide which 8 are in the Major League (aka are the Gyms trainers need to defeat & collect a Badge from) and which are in the Minor League (which they don't really explain if that has any role, it just sounds like a fancy/nicer term of being benched). Also, the Gyms may more be "Clubs" than Gyms, cause as we've seen the places where Gyms battles are called "Stadiums" and Stadiums can be different Types as the version exclusive Gyms showed depending on whose in the Major League that year. No doubt some Gym Leaders may prefer specific Cities/Towns over others, though I imagine that discussion is all done after the Major League is decided. Though, that said, that should mean there's 8 Stadiums and in Sword & Shield one should not be in use due to Piers refusing to leave Spikemuth and wanting it as his Gym (much to Rose's annoyance, so much so he offered to build Piers a Stadium in a Power Spot of his choosing; likely the idea being whenever Piers is in the Major League he would get first dibs on that Stadium). So either there is/are extra Stadium(s) and we just don't see it/them or maybe some Gyms do share a Stadium and swap which Gym is in charge everyday (I think it's more likely the former considering how Rose was willing to build a brand new Stadium to get Piers to play ball). Also Gyms operate mostly individually, signing on new members and choosing who is their next Gym Leader with no interference from the League (while some past Gyms were family owned, since there can only be 8 Gyms the League has more say on who gets to be a Gym Leader, even approving hostile takeovers such as Sabrina defeating the Fighting Dojo for the right to be Saffron City Gym Leader and her Psychic Gym designated as the Gym). And with the Gym battles being in Stadiums we see they're televised which of course means marketing, merchandising, sponsors, and venders. It's clear Rose is the one with the checkbook. Galar is very upfront with all of that, though this could be also how other Leagues are run but done so more subtly.
From there it's up to the Gym Leader to maintain their Gym, once again who knows if they get any support from the League (or rather what bureaucracy they have to deal with in order to get their requests submitted; imagine a lot of paper work JUST enough to make it not feel worth it for small requests; then again maybe Gym Leaders are given additional benefits like tax breaks and special deals from construction & other businesses).
Anyway, to address some things to asked I didn't quite answer:
* Does Galar Minor League Give Out Badges? Nope. BUT that doesn't mean they don't have a logo (or multiple logos) ready to use if they do join a Major League one year. Remember Galar's Badges have a gimmick: they combine together inside a ring to form a giant Champion Cup logo "badge". If I were to guess how it works: Each Major League submits a logo they want to be on their Badges. The Champion Cup has designers place the logos around the gold plate, probably a few ways. The Gym Leaders are shown the plates and they all agree on one plate. Then comes cutting the borders and the designers get the Gym Leaders whos Badges touch to discuss how they want their Badge border to be like and if the others agree. If there's conflict, they may go back to chooing another plate and starting the process again. Finally when everyone is in agreement the design is finalized and the Badges are cut and sent out.
* Would Cheren had to choose a different Type had Lenora not quit? Considering Cheren became the giver of the Basic Badge, I think him becoming a Gym Leader likely happened because Lenora quit. I think there's a story there.
* Would the Swimmer be going around to other regions if Unova have more than one Water-type Gym? Well, yeah, even if Unova had a region's worth of Water-type Gym the guy isn't doing it to challenge a League but because he wants to battle strong Water-type trainers.
* Would Malon not opened his Gym if the Striaton Triplets didn't quit? Very likely. Whenver a Gym position opens the League probably posts what Types are available. With the Triplets quitting that put Grass, Fire, & Water back into the pool, and Marlon saw that as his opportunity.
* Would the Fighting Dojo have to set up in a new City/Town to be a Gym again? Yes, possibly. First, it depends on if League connected Regions must have different Gym Types or they can share a Gym Type. If they can't, tough luck, they gotta wait until Chuck quits. If they can, after a Gym Leader quits opening a position, they would have to set-up in another City/Town without a Gym and likely submit a request. If two connected regions are allowed to share and Kiyo ever comes back from his training, maybe they could move to Viridian City (or maybe already have); Remember, Blue was just holding the 8th Gym Leader position until the League could find a replacement.
* (Main) Anime having more Gyms: The main anime is trying to be more realistic thus the region is the size of a country. Hence the anime also having WAY more cities & towns and other locations not in the games. Also, since each region's League is a big tournament with dozens if not hundreds of trainers participating (and those are just the trainers who succeeded in getting all 8 Badges), it would be pretty ridiculous if there was still only 8 Gym Leaders. Hence, though Ash goes through the game's Gyms, other trainers including Ash's rivals are shown to have gone to completely different Gyms not in the game with unique looking Badges. Heck, in Unova, since B2W2 had new Gyms we got to see Cheren's, Roxie's and Marlon's Gym (and since Ash challenged Roxie as his 8th Gym Leader he technically got a unique set of Badges than ones which can be obtained in the games). In addition its likely there's Gyms which share Types cause two trainers won't use the same strategies and/or Pokemon.
NO ONE EVER SAW A PIKACHU EVOLVE INTO A RAICHU BEFORE THAN?! And "new phase of discovery", please do not tell me that means no one knew Pokemon "evolved" before...
Keep in mind practically all the trade and stone evolutions are described this way. Looks like that, in initial lore, evolution by methods that were not leveling up were a recent discovery or something like that.
So I was just looking at ditto’s Pokédex entries, and while most of them weren’t to interesting, one stood out.
What. Does. This. Mean. I think that this is referring to dittos ability to bread with (almost) any other Pokémon. But what does this have to do with metamorphosis? There’s a theory that Pokémon “evolution” is actually metamorphosis, but ditto doesn’t evolve. I don’t usually trust the Pokédex, but I at least want to find the logic here.
