Don't know where it's mentioned, may be an NPC in Snowpoint, but Regigigas was first sealed in Snowpoint and then the other Regi were taken to Hoenn. Considering their size it makes much more sense as well.
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SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon
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That reminds me of a little trivia about Eevee.
- In Gen I it was only a Gift Pokemon, possibly hinting it not being native to Kanto.
- In Gen II you can get multiple via redeeming them from the Game Corner, but that doesn't mean they're native.
- Gen III it was once again only a Gift Pokemon for FRLG and XD.
- Gen IV will see the first time Eevee is widely available to catch in the wild in Sinnoh... but with a twist. It's via the Trophy Garden and the gimmick there is that the owner of the garden, Mr. Backlot, brags about his garden crawling with a non-native Pokemon and, not to embarrass their employee, the his maids get a whole batch of the Pokemon he says he has and release them in the garden. Otherwise its a Gift Pokemon or multiple can be redeemed from via HGSS's Game Corner; There was also the Sightseeing course in the Pokewalker but you could only get that by attending a Nintendo Event (and from it looks like it was only released in Japan and Korea).
- Gen V, finally after 16 (Japan)/14 (International) years, it's revealed in B2W2 that Eevees have a native habitat deep within Castelia City. I remember people sort of making a deal about this, some even saying this possibly means Eevee is actually a Unovan Pokemon that was just brought over to every other region due to how popular it was.
- ... AND then in Gen VI/Kalos they just had Eevee openly available on Route 10. Then in Gen VII/Alola on Route 4 & 6. And now Gen VIII/Galar on Route 4.
- Oh, but I skipped an important game: Let's Go. Not counting the Partner Eevee which Professor Oak catches on Route 1 in the Eevee version, the game finally included a habitat in Kanto for it: Route 17. What was Route 17 in the original game? The Cycling Road, which in Let's Go is called "Pokemon Road" and is now more of a garden walkway. In the original games there was a small patch of grass leading up to Route 16 where you could encounter wild Pokemon, but otherwise the Cycling Road was devoid of wild encounters. But in Let's Go it has plenty of grass patches along the road spawning plenty of Pokemon (including Chansey). So, this makes me wonder, in the non-LG games, could the reason Eevee couldn't be found in Kanto be because they built the Cycling Road over its only natural habitat?
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Let's Go is likely in an alternate canon to the other mainline Kanto games, considering the story revolves around different player characters and rival plus Red has a totally different role in that canon. I personally headcanon most remakes as being in alternate universe canons to the originals and LGPE is most definitely in an AU from RBY and FRLG universes.
As for the rest though, it's worth noting the first four regions of Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh are all based on regions of Japan and are generally eastern regions, while Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar are all based on western places, and canonically they are all incredibly distant from the first four to the point where many media have shown you need a plane to get from Kanto to those regions. Perhaps Eevee is in general a Pokemon naturally native to the western parts of the Pokemon world like Unova, Kalos, etc. while it was imported into the first four regions which are closer together and likely on the opposite side of the Pokeglobe from the other regions. I dunno, maybe that's the overall idea maybe?
That being said, Eevee was strangely absent from BW1 so that raises questions as to whether it's truly a Unova native to begin with since a lot of Pokemon previously unknown to Unova somehow showed up in the interim between BW1 and BW2.
As for the rest though, it's worth noting the first four regions of Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh are all based on regions of Japan and are generally eastern regions, while Unova, Kalos, Alola, and Galar are all based on western places, and canonically they are all incredibly distant from the first four to the point where many media have shown you need a plane to get from Kanto to those regions. Perhaps Eevee is in general a Pokemon naturally native to the western parts of the Pokemon world like Unova, Kalos, etc. while it was imported into the first four regions which are closer together and likely on the opposite side of the Pokeglobe from the other regions. I dunno, maybe that's the overall idea maybe?
That being said, Eevee was strangely absent from BW1 so that raises questions as to whether it's truly a Unova native to begin with since a lot of Pokemon previously unknown to Unova somehow showed up in the interim between BW1 and BW2.
Several of the routes with Eevee are next to the more urbanized areas of the region (the alola routes are near the ranch, but also near some of the main tourist areas and the superstore), which could support the idea that those populations are a result of Eevee having been brought to those cities at some earlier time. This sort of thing happens with some frequency IRL with pet species, which Eevee seems to fit in as. Interestingly, the two exceptions to this seem to be Kalos and Galar, which if we're comparing to Earth are both geographically the closest and have been historically known for long-distance trade and colonization.
Not to say that the Kanto Cycling Road isn't in a bad spot environmentally. Its GSC encounter table consists of just Fearow, Grimer/Muk, and Slugma. The generous interpretation is that it was downwind of the Cinnabar eruption, but I have my doubts that's the entire explanation.
Not to say that the Kanto Cycling Road isn't in a bad spot environmentally. Its GSC encounter table consists of just Fearow, Grimer/Muk, and Slugma. The generous interpretation is that it was downwind of the Cinnabar eruption, but I have my doubts that's the entire explanation.
That would also go with one of Eevee's Ultra Moon dex description: "Its genes are easily influenced by its surroundings. Even its face starts to look like that of its Trainer".
While the first sentence doesn't really tell us anything new about Eevee that other dex entries do, the second one does. Eevee's face starts to resemble its trainer? Now, what advantage does that hold for Eevee for it to develop this biological mechanic? Well, a more human face, especially one that is familiar or is baby/child-like, usually makes a person more sympathetic toward the one with the face. And for this to even happen it would have to be many generations of the Eevee species being kept as pets/partners by humans. Hence that alone shows a strong connection between Eevee and humanity and, combining what you said, could very well mean Eevee populations in urbanized area or places where a lot of historical human travel happened through doesn't mean a "natural" habitat but possibly an adopted/migrated one.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
I can forgive a lot of things and suspend disbelief relatively far but I just can't stop being annoyed by how Indigo Plateau went from being slightly north of Pewter City to being far south of it.
Tyranitar attack, perhaps?
Tyranitar attack, perhaps?
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
I mean, Mount Silver is right there, so you might be on to something here.
Like, maybe, because the biggest issue isn't exactly with the Pokemon League but rather with Victory Road (and it's new layout). Gen I Victory Road was at the very end of Route 23 after all the Badge checkers. Gen II Victory Road is essentially where Route 23 would have started. Unless the Badge Gate's door leads underground which we don't see, there's suddenly a cave system where the majority of Route 23 used to be. All that's left of Route 23 is a small bit before the Pokemon League building which in HGSS didn't even get it's own location indicator.
Either from a Tyranitar or by some other means, maybe a giant landside, Route 23 got covered by a massive amount of rock & dirt. But instead of digging it out, only to use it as a fancy passageway, they decided to just build the Badge Gate on Route 22, have just one guy check to see if you have all the Badges, dug a new Victory Road, and build a new Pokemon League closer. Go northwest of Pewter City and you'll probably find the abandoned old League building, likely a lot of it torn down to re-use ornamentations from it. Thinking about it probably would have made for a neat location to visit.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Oh god this sounds amazing, I wish so much this had happened
EDIT: This actually works so well since the Pewter City map in GSC is bordered by grass rather than a rock wall; I always wanted to go beyond the fence and see what was on the other side.
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Outside of the whole gameplay/game mechanics situation (aka by Gen VI, only yielding one free Eevee per playthrough wasn't going to fly with eight evolution options), it makes as much sense as anything regarding Eevee's origin.
I always viewed it the same way as I did with starters in the wild. They are there but the Player Character isn't privy to their whereabouts. Very little about Pokemon placement makes sense unless you are viewing it through the lens of a game.
It is fun to speculation about though!
Isn't it easier to just say they're like our dogs and cats, and are fully domesticated, which means they can only be found in human breeding areas? It'd explain any wild appearence as them being invasive species (which means alola is filled with invasive starter species, just like real life hawaii)
Starters live in Bill's garden.
Duh.
Duh.
Obviously they’re on vacation.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Just started rereading the GSC manga and something occurred to me: it's the only canon in which we actually know the origin and the function of the GS Ball.
Consider: in the anime, the GS Ball just turns up in the Orange Islands. Professor Ivy has it but where it actually came from isn't specified. As we all know, Ash and friends collect it from her and deliver it to Kurt in Johto, where it stayed and hasn't been heard from since.
Whereas in the manga, we see it manufactured - it's created by
and used to capture Celebi to prevent the holder from suffering any negative effects while time travelling.
The games are even more confused. USUM made a sort of half-hearted stab at explaining the GS Ball's origins, with an NPC mentioning that GS stands for "greatest smith's ball" (or "Gantetsu's Superb Ball" in Japan - Gantetsu being Kurt's name there). The thing is, while that's nice (and more interesting than Gold and Silver Ball), it doesn't really make sense. Kurt didn't make the ball in the games. The player is delivered it by a Pokemon Centre Nurse, much as with later gen event items like the Member's Card or the Azure Flute, and it's explicit that it's not made by him, unless he's lying:
"Wh-what is that? I've never seen one before."
The ball then somehow starts reacting (either because of his tinkering with it or because of its proximity to Ilex Forest) and the player can put it in the shrine to catch Celebi. Interestingly, unlike most of the other event items, you can't get it back once it's been used.
Why it actually attracts Celebi in the first place, or what its original function was, is never addressed. The only item description the game provides is "the mysterious ball", which is incredibly helpful if what you wanted was a statement of the bleeding obvious. HGSS, of course, left it out entirely - which is probably one of the most disappointing things about those games.
Consider: in the anime, the GS Ball just turns up in the Orange Islands. Professor Ivy has it but where it actually came from isn't specified. As we all know, Ash and friends collect it from her and deliver it to Kurt in Johto, where it stayed and hasn't been heard from since.
Whereas in the manga, we see it manufactured - it's created by
Pryce using Ho-oh and Lugia's feathers
The games are even more confused. USUM made a sort of half-hearted stab at explaining the GS Ball's origins, with an NPC mentioning that GS stands for "greatest smith's ball" (or "Gantetsu's Superb Ball" in Japan - Gantetsu being Kurt's name there). The thing is, while that's nice (and more interesting than Gold and Silver Ball), it doesn't really make sense. Kurt didn't make the ball in the games. The player is delivered it by a Pokemon Centre Nurse, much as with later gen event items like the Member's Card or the Azure Flute, and it's explicit that it's not made by him, unless he's lying:
"Wh-what is that? I've never seen one before."
The ball then somehow starts reacting (either because of his tinkering with it or because of its proximity to Ilex Forest) and the player can put it in the shrine to catch Celebi. Interestingly, unlike most of the other event items, you can't get it back once it's been used.
Why it actually attracts Celebi in the first place, or what its original function was, is never addressed. The only item description the game provides is "the mysterious ball", which is incredibly helpful if what you wanted was a statement of the bleeding obvious. HGSS, of course, left it out entirely - which is probably one of the most disappointing things about those games.
Well, has there ever been a theory that the GS Ball itself is from the future? That would immediately explain Celebi's attraction to it, it's an object misplaced from time.
Who knows, maybe there's this time loop thing going on. Like, sometime in the future, Kurt make his own GS Ball, only for Celebi to take it into the past so that it can be discovered, given to the player, player shows it to Kurt which in the future will inspire him to make the GS Ball, and the player then puts it in the shrine to summon Celebi.
Why would Celebi do this? Who knows, maybe it has to do with how it's time travel works, like for some reason the GS Ball is an item where only once of it can exist at any point in time so Celebi needs to bring it back in time before it was made, thus also making it a tether which it can use to time travel.
Really the more I think about it the more it feels like no part of the GS Ball was thought out beyond "plot hook for orange islands"
We get no explanation of who made it, why, how it relates to celebi, why it relates to celebi, it never shows up again, the plotline was dropped in the anime entirely...the gs ball wasn't even in gold & silver!
The GS ball first shows up/mentioned in January 1999, but with anime lead times means that had to have been planned probably 3-6 months ahead of time so somewhere in the June~September 98 time. But Celebi as a concept was barely off the ground then! the ball probably didn't even have a plan at all until they were working on the johto anime!
And by that point they already decided to kill the idea so celebi could be the focus of the movie.
We get no explanation of who made it, why, how it relates to celebi, why it relates to celebi, it never shows up again, the plotline was dropped in the anime entirely...the gs ball wasn't even in gold & silver!
The GS ball first shows up/mentioned in January 1999, but with anime lead times means that had to have been planned probably 3-6 months ahead of time so somewhere in the June~September 98 time. But Celebi as a concept was barely off the ground then! the ball probably didn't even have a plan at all until they were working on the johto anime!
And by that point they already decided to kill the idea so celebi could be the focus of the movie.
So apparently there was a physical Pokedex book released concurrently with Pokemon Red and Green's release in Japan that was never localized. The book contains a lot of interesting details, but the one I found the most interesting is that it's 100% intentional that Nidorina and Nidoqueen are unable to breed. Female Nidoran becoming sterile upon evolution was part of the lore from the very beginning, even before Gen 2 introduced breeding as a game mechanic.
It's interesting that the Primeape entry mentions that the discovery of the pokeball involved giving a primeape too many drugs until it essentially passed out. It implies that the poke balls use some sort of drug to dull the pokemon and allow it to be captured. TBH that's not too surprising of an explanation but also understandable that it's never been mentioned in game.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
This post from another thread got me wondering about Gyms. It's still (deliberately, I'm sure) so vague how they run after eight generations.
Now, obviously, there are official gyms and unofficial ones (that is, Pokemon League-endorsed and not) and official ones have to be up to a certain standard. In the anime Forrest has to prove that the Pewter Gym is up to scratch - one of the adaptations mentions that if a Gym Leader loses three times in a row, they are stripped of their title, and the manga has a qualifying test where none of the candidate's team can faint.
The games have eight gyms in each region and seemingly only those eight. Gameplay and story segregation obviously plays a role in this, but there are occasional indications to there being more gyms than the ones the player sees. Brendan and May in RSE imply that Slateport getting a gym is an inevitability, but it's ambiguous whether they mean that one will be opened for no particular reason or that it won't get one until another gym in a different area shuts down and they need an eighth one somewhere else. Galar does seem all-but-confirmed to have one gym for each type - the gyms not visited by the player are just minor league ones. So presumably, the minor league gyms do not count towards entering the Pokemon League - it's unclear if they can give out badges unless they're major, but it would appear not.
The anime, as mentioned, does have multiple gyms: these appear to be both official ones - since we see trainers in all of the first six regions with unidentified badges - and unofficial ones, like AJ's Gym and the Kas and Yas Gyms in Dark City, both of which are trying to get certified.
It's interesting that the unofficial gyms we see never share a type with established ones. So does that imply that there is - or can only be - one Gym of each type in a region? It certainly seems this way in the games. In Unova we see that Cheren literally takes over the Normal-type mantle from Leonora - he even gives out the same badge. If she was still operating, would he have had to choose a different type? If nothing else it seems kind of pointless for people to set up multiple gyms of the same type when you could just go and train at one that's already there. A swimmer in Unova mentions that he will seek out Water Gyms in different regions - why would he need to do this if Unova had more than one of its own? In B2W2, Marlon is inferred to have only recently opened his Gym - could he not have opened it if Cilan, Chili, and Cress were still running theirs?
What also seems concrete is that it's only one gym per area. Cilan, Chili, and Cress do not operate separate gyms, even though they logically should - instead, they run one together. Sabrina famously challenges the Karate King for the right to be Saffron's official gym - the idea that the city could simply have had two gyms was clearly not on the cards. Because of this, it does not give out a badge. So does Kanto no longer have a Fighting-type gym? Would they have to set up elsewhere to be one?
So yeah I'm curious as to whether there's only one gym of each type allowed in each region or whether any old Tom, Dick, or Harry can start setting them up as and when they like. Given the weird cult of personality the Blackthorn Gym has around Dragon usage it's hard to imagine them tolerating another Dragon gym in Johto (or in Kanto come to that). Or Sabrina allowing any pretender Psychic gyms in Kanto to exist.
I always viewed it in the anime as there are tons of Gyms some harder than others and ones of duplicate types in order to make up the number of participants seen in the League competitions. Ash, due to being the merchandise protagonist, had to fight the in-game ones. The anime is inconsistent at times on it but it is the only way that makes sense. Some of the Gym Leaders (Sabrina, Volkner, Olympia) are portrayed as nearly unbeatable and others (Clay and Lt. Surge) don't appear to scale their teams via the opposing trainer's skill level. If Ash struggled with them (grant it, Ash narrowly wins for the sake of drama) and Ash being a top-tier trainer (He is. The man recruited a new team in every region and after Indigo got at least in the top 8 in every league), then the average Joey trainer isn't beating those guys within a ton of chances. Since some leagues like Hoenn had over 200 applicants for a yearly conference either the badges roll out or there are tons of gyms but we don't see them as Ash is predestined to fight the canon eight.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
In the manga anyone can enter into an elimination contest for the Kanto Pokemon League (the rules for the others are a bit different) but anyone who has 8 gym badges is allowed to skip the tournament (presumably so as not to have to mingle with the riff-raff) and go right through to the finals. Hoenn and Unova's Pokemon Leagues both mandate that only trainers with eight badges can enter.
We see other ways of being admitted to the League, though: the anime also has that school that allows people to take an exam in lieu of travelling around to collect badges.
It also needn't be that one must collect eight badges from their chosen region, either. Sakura (of the Kimono Girls) is shown to be collecting badges from both Kanto and Johto in the anime. Presumably a total of eight would qualify her to compete in the League. When you arrive at the Pokemon League reception gate in GSC/HGSS the guard stops you and then says "oh! The eight badges of Johto!" That's a slightly strange phrasing and suggests to me that eight badges from any region would have been sufficient (but again, gameplay and story segregation is in play).
Surge's gym is an interesting example because we see loads of challengers who failed against him - most of them are kids with presumably not-very-well-trained weakmons like Caterpie and Rattata. Ash only prevails because he carefully thought about Surge's weakness and exploited it. Presumably he's not the only person ever to have accomplished that. Otoshi, the trainer with the Marowak from the anime, has a Thunderbadge, so it's not as if no-one ever defeated Surge. But evidently not many people did - Gary doesn't have one.
Also, the concept of gym leaders switching up their teams to account for different experience levels (like we see Brock do in Origins) wasn't really a thing at that point though in this case it seems more down to Surge just being an asshole.
I think the games give the wrong impression about how easy Gym Leaders are supposed to be to defeat (note the tendency of Gym Leaders in the games to operate near areas full of Pokemon strong against them, like Lt Surge near Diglett's Cave or Lenora near Pinwheel Forest). There's an adaptation manga which states that Gym Leaders who lose more than three times in a row are stripped of their title, so they clearly aren't meant to hold back against opponents. This is the thing with Volkner - he just hasn't faced any tough trainers until the player comes along. It's less that he's unbeatable and more that no-one is up to the challenge.
But there being potentially 15 gyms in Kanto (or more) leaves trainers some measure of choice. If you can't beat Sabrina, simply go elsewhere and try your luck with a different gym*. Gary also doesn't have a Marshbadge so presumably he either couldn't beat her or didn't make the attempt at all.
*though Sabrina is a fairly extreme example given that she had turned rather unhinged and was transforming most of her challengers into dolls
Well, Kanto and Johto share a League (the Indigo League), so I think for the Indigo League they allow both Kanto and Johto badges. However if you come to the Indigo League with some Hoenn Badges I'd imagine the gatekeeper will say that the Hoenn Badges are not recognized Badges for the Indigo League.
No, that's something that was thought up by the original anime series chief writer, Takeshi Shudo (BTW, the guy was wild and he had plenty of strange ideas about the Pokemon World). As opposed to the ideal utopia Pokemon sometimes present itself, he rather had a bleak outlook how things were run, especially with the Pokemon League: a strict "3 loses in a row & you're fired" policy, Gym Leaders weren't paid well, & Gyms cost a lot to run. It was apparently meant to explain why Brock and Misty had no parents because their parents ran away because they were one loss away from losing the Gym thus them running away leaving the Gym to their kids apparently reset the 3 loses in a row rule?
Obviously, this isn't the actual case. It was never mentioned in the anime proper anyway so something that was easily "retcon".
Though I would like maybe one game going into the details about how one becomes a Gym Leader and all the complexities that comes with it, including life style changes the new Gym Leader may have to do & deal with. Both of the recent games had a chance to do that, with Alola just started the creation of its League and Galar being all about the Gym Challenge culture, but sadly no.
Being Gary almost has a completely different set of Badges (plus 2 additional) and that at the very beginning he had a CAR I imagined Gary probably took a much different route than Ash who followed the games path for obvious reasons.