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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

DrPumpkinz said:
I've heard that the Pokemon models are actually to scale, so it would theoretically be pretty easy to see what each Pokemon's "height" refers to, if incredibly tedious.
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Apparently, yes... were it not for the fact they are almost never seen on 1:1 scale, so unless you extract a model, you won't notice it.

Hopefully BDSP will retain the original games' size comparison feature in the Pokédex and use it to show the models in real scale. At least we could get a better reference for half the National Dex's measures.
 
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In Emerald I don't like the double battle with Steven in the Mossdeep Space Center. I can rationalize his lower levels because that might not be visible to the player. But for his first Pokémon to be Metang kind of gives away the fact that he's not the champion yet. Which breaks continuity in my mind if he's supposed to be the former champion that passed on the mantle to Wallace.

This is why I prefer the execution of Cynthia. I know some criticize Cynthia for standing back and letting you do the work but I can kind of rationalize it. Someone once said it was like "riding the hot pitcher" where you had all this momentum already so it made sense for you to be the one to finish off Cyrus. I preferred the mystery of not knowing anything about Cynthia's team until you battle her for the championship.
 
R_N said:
iirc ORAS has an option to show the pokemon's "true height" in one of its pokedex options.

It's a side-on view as the models walk past in comparison to the player
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Wukong said:
In Emerald I don't like the double battle with Steven in the Mossdeep Space Center. I can rationalize his lower levels because that might not be visible to the player. But for his first Pokémon to be Metang kind of gives away the fact that he's not the champion yet.
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Since you were battling inside maybe he sent out a Metang he was training as Metagross would either be too big or it's electromagnetic properties were too strong and would damage the space center's equipment? He only had three Pokemon on him, maybe when he's just travelling around he doesn't carry his Champion team but keeps around a few extra Pokemon he's either training up or has skills he thinks he'll need to wherever he's going at the time.
 
ZettaiRyouiki said:
The anime ignoring what the games do and just doing its own thing? That has never, ever happened before.
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Yeah but this is one time the Anime actually makes more sense than the game. Lucario definitely fits the 4'11 size more, and I like how it makes the weather trio huge monsters compared to Giraffe sized ingame Groudon. Charizard also seems to be a bit bigger in the Anime than ingame, but not by much.

The Anime also has giant Dragonite but that was season 1 everything was confusing back then
 
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Chadlad50 said:
The Anime also has giant Dragonite but that was season 1 everything was confusing back then
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Don't forget Chariciffic Valley. None of them were kaiju sized like that lighthouse episode's dragonite. But the anime made it pretty clear that pokemon significantly vary in size, even if they are the same species.
The anime is halfway between having its own rules, and making everything up as it goes along.
 
Chadlad50 said:
The Anime also has giant Dragonite but that was season 1 everything was confusing back then
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Takeshi Shudo, the head writer of the anime until part way through Johto, took MANY liberties on the series, including NPC characters from Gen I(De-aging Brock, Misty, and especially Sabrina, using Blaine's beta design, Lt. Surge being a 7-foot tall muscle man, ect). This was before the Pokemon series had much pre-established lore(in fact, even the videogame lore was completely different from the modern continuity, according to a 1996 lore and guide book made by Game Freak, it takes place on the real Earth, Kanto is literally the Kanto region of Japan, and animals exist and evolve both into and from Pokemon over the eons using real-life evolution logic. Also, Pokemon weren't discovered until 18th Century France).

He got even MORE creative freedom after the Porygon incident, due to most of the higher-ups running around doing damage control, which allowed him to create Lugia, which was made as an anime-original Pokemon(though he originally didn't want it to be a Pokemon at all, but a entire separate existence), which is why it doesn't exist in the 1997 spaceworld demo of Gold and Silver and Ho-oh is the mascot of both versions.

If you want to see what his original image of what the anime was going to be, before more sound minds reigned him in on the weirder(and much more NSFW) aspects, he made a novelization of his original plans for the anime, but it only reached two volumes before his death. Fans have translated it and it is an interesting read, just for how utterly bizarre it is.
 
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Brock pining for another maternal figure is honestly really sad...
Funny how he confirmed that Misty's sister' hair being dyed though. Makes WAY too much sense
Shame he never finished...
 
Sonikku A said:
The bigger thing to complain about for Steven is how the post game fight in Emerald is locked. If you beat him, he disappears completely and can't be refought
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I'm fine with only fighting him once to be honest. It's a pretty momentous battle so fighting him multiple times never felt necessary to me, just like I never felt the need to fight Red multiple times despite him respawning over and over again. Steven should have had the Hoenn champion theme though.

Pikachu315111 said:
Since you were battling inside maybe he sent out a Metang he was training as Metagross would either be too big or it's electromagnetic properties were too strong and would damage the space center's equipment? He only had three Pokemon on him, maybe when he's just travelling around he doesn't carry his Champion team but keeps around a few extra Pokemon he's either training up or has skills he thinks he'll need to wherever he's going at the time.
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I don't know Metagross is a pretty rare Pokémon, I don't like the idea of Steven training multiple of them. And if he was, why not just use them against you in his battle in Meteor Falls? Plus with the fate of the world at stake for him to just be using a Metang he's training up rather than his main Metagross is a difficult stretch for me to believe.

This isn't a huge deal, it just fucks with my head canon a bit.
 
Wukong said:
In Emerald I don't like the double battle with Steven in the Mossdeep Space Center. I can rationalize his lower levels because that might not be visible to the player. But for his first Pokémon to be Metang kind of gives away the fact that he's not the champion yet. Which breaks continuity in my mind if he's supposed to be the former champion that passed on the mantle to Wallace.

This is why I prefer the execution of Cynthia. I know some criticize Cynthia for standing back and letting you do the work but I can kind of rationalize it. Someone once said it was like "riding the hot pitcher" where you had all this momentum already so it made sense for you to be the one to finish off Cyrus. I preferred the mystery of not knowing anything about Cynthia's team until you battle her for the championship.
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Interestingly, there's a flashback scene in the manga, set not long before the present day, in which Cynthia is accompanied by her Garchomp while it's still a Gabite. Reminded me of this.

An NPC in Fortree says that he met Steven and that the team he was using "weren't just strong, they were trained to terrifying extremes!" That kind of implies that he was using his Champion-level team, though I think we're meant to assume that the individuals he uses at the Space Centre are the same as the ones he uses later.

But levels in the games are kind of abstract imo, so it can be rationalised with that in mind. Reference how Eagun's Pikachu - explicitly the same one - goes from being level 50 in Colosseum to being level 12 five years later in XD. I've always thought that levels (regardless of how they work for the player) aren't a permanent state - a level 80 Pokemon which isn't being used might start to get out of shape and lose the experience it previously accrued, dropping to a lower level after a period of inactivity. The only reason this doesn't happen to the player's Pokemon is for gameplay reasons (imagine going on holiday for a couple of weeks and switching on your DS to find your level 100 starter was at level 40 again...)

Emerald establishes that Steven, despite being a powerful trainer, rarely battles and spends more time looking for rocks. So once the player becomes Champion and Steven decides they're worth battling, he begins a more rigorous training regime (as do all the Gym Leaders, canonically) to get his team to the level where they're ready to take you on. The Metang he was raising might be the same one he uses in the Meteor Falls battle as a Metagross. But that's not to say it's not his first Metagross. He says it's his favourite Pokemon, so he'd definitely train multiple individuals - he has numerous Beldum and Metang in the manga, and of course trades you a Beldum in HGSS.

As for the Beldum he leaves you, he might breed them but alternatively I always assumed he'd just found a place in Hoenn where they could be caught that the player doesn't know about.
 
green_typhlosion said:
Interestingly, there's a flashback scene in the manga, set not long before the present day, in which Cynthia is accompanied by her Garchomp while it's still a Gabite. Reminded me of this.

An NPC in Fortree says that he met Steven and that the team he was using "weren't just strong, they were trained to terrifying extremes!" That kind of implies that he was using his Champion-level team, though I think we're meant to assume that the individuals he uses at the Space Centre are the same as the ones he uses later.

But levels in the games are kind of abstract imo, so it can be rationalised with that in mind. Reference how Eagun's Pikachu - explicitly the same one - goes from being level 50 in Colosseum to being level 12 five years later in XD. I've always thought that levels (regardless of how they work for the player) aren't a permanent state - a level 80 Pokemon which isn't being used might start to get out of shape and lose the experience it previously accrued, dropping to a lower level after a period of inactivity. The only reason this doesn't happen to the player's Pokemon is for gameplay reasons (imagine going on holiday for a couple of weeks and switching on your DS to find your level 100 starter was at level 40 again...)

Emerald establishes that Steven, despite being a powerful trainer, rarely battles and spends more time looking for rocks. So once the player becomes Champion and Steven decides they're worth battling, he begins a more rigorous training regime (as do all the Gym Leaders, canonically) to get his team to the level where they're ready to take you on. The Metang he was raising might be the same one he uses in the Meteor Falls battle as a Metagross. But that's not to say it's not his first Metagross. He says it's his favourite Pokemon, so he'd definitely train multiple individuals - he has numerous Beldum and Metang in the manga, and of course trades you a Beldum in HGSS.

As for the Beldum he leaves you, he might breed them but alternatively I always assumed he'd just found a place in Hoenn where they could be caught that the player doesn't know about.
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You raise some good points. I can definitely rationalize the levels as I said earlier, which is why I don't care that he uses Aggron and Skarmory in that double battle despite them being in their 40s; I'm just glad he uses fully evolved Pokémon.

I can even kind of get behind him training multiple Metagross I guess. I just can't rationalize him using a Metang he's just training up in a battle against villains. It's not a friendly battle, it's a battle with real stakes. It makes more sense to use your strongest Pokémon to put an end to that threat rather than play with your food by using your weaker Pokémon.

I don't know if that makes sense but it's just hard to fully rationalize the situation. I can get behind most of it though I guess. This could have all been avoided however if they simply preserved the mystery like they did with Cynthia. It's not like I was itching for double battle alongside Steven anyway.
 
Wukong said:
You raise some good points. I can definitely rationalize the levels as I said earlier, which is why I don't care that he uses Aggron and Skarmory in that double battle despite them being in their 40s; I'm just glad he uses fully evolved Pokémon.

I can even kind of get behind him training multiple Metagross I guess. I just can't rationalize him using a Metang he's just training up in a battle against villains. It's not a friendly battle, it's a battle with real stakes. It makes more sense to use your strongest Pokémon to put an end to that threat rather than play with your food by using your weaker Pokémon.

I don't know if that makes sense but it's just hard to fully rationalize the situation. I can get behind most of it though I guess. This could have all been avoided however if they simply preserved the mystery like they did with Cynthia. It's not like I was itching for double battle alongside Steven anyway.
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In the end, it would be best to separate lore from practicality. He uses a Metang in that fight because if he used Metagross, the player would barely need to do anything. His Aggron has almost all special moves and skarmory can't do much as a defensively oriented Pokemon. Unless they gave it all status moves, it would be hard to make a Metagross not steal the show.
 
In a previous file, I had tossed a Wishing Piece in one of the Crown Tundra's dens. Jobbing to Peony and going there early was super worth it, I had gotten a Dreepy.

Fast-forward to a while later, finally did beat SwSh's story. Pulled up as the reigning undefeated Champion of Galar to that same den in hopes of getting a Dragapult.

Tossed the piece. Got a Rare, Purple Raid.

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The odds?

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Now look at what I could've gotten.


Whoever put this shitmon in all Slippery Slope dens regardless of type, I just wanna talk. :psyangry:
 
You know, if Steven had still been the champion, it could have been kind of cool if he rolled up to the double battle with a level 58 Metagross. It would have ruined the surprise of having to stare down this alien-looking spider thing in the final battle, and it would have significantly lessened the challenge of the double battle, but seeing Steven whip out a beast 20 levels higher than your own Pokemon and wipe the floor with Maxie and Tabitha despite being at a type disadvantage, it would have given the player a sense of "oh fuck, this dude is WAY out of my league" and then when he turns his Metagross against you in the champion battle, you're potentially even more terrified than if you were just seeing it for the first time, because you're VERY aware of what this monster is capable of.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
You know, if Steven had still been the champion, it could have been kind of cool if he rolled up to the double battle with a level 58 Metagross. It would have ruined the surprise of having to stare down this alien-looking spider thing in the final battle, and it would have significantly lessened the challenge of the double battle, but seeing Steven whip out a beast 20 levels higher than your own Pokemon and wipe the floor with Maxie and Tabitha despite being at a type disadvantage, it would have given the player a sense of "oh fuck, this dude is WAY out of my league" and then when he turns his Metagross against you in the champion battle, you're potentially even more terrified than if you were just seeing it for the first time, because you're VERY aware of what this monster is capable of.
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The double battle is only in Emerald, where he isn't the Champion and here the whole bait & switch is meant to be "this character you already know was the champion, is not the champion"
 
Nokocchi said:
In the end, it would be best to separate lore from practicality. He uses a Metang in that fight because if he used Metagross, the player would barely need to do anything. His Aggron has almost all special moves and skarmory can't do much as a defensively oriented Pokemon. Unless they gave it all status moves, it would be hard to make a Metagross not steal the show.
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People bitched about the HGSS version of this fight (in which Lance uses a grossly underlevelled level 40 Dragonite) but thinking it over, the fight is actually designed to be more balanced than the one in Emerald.

The opposing side sends out an Arbok, which immediately neuters Dragonite's power with Intimidate. Then Dragonite's only moves are Fly and Thunder. The former takes time to work effectively, potentially leaving the player open to attack, and the latter is inaccurate and runs off Dragonite's weaker attacking stat. That, coupled with Lance not having any backups, makes it a much more even fight.

But yeah, lore and gameplay reasons really don't mesh well here.
 
They were obviously going for the Red treatment from the Johto games for Steven. The problem is, Emerald isn't a sequel to Ruby/Sapphire so the implementation is kind of rife with issues. You also have to grind significantly after defeating the Elite Four in order to prepare for Steven and there aren't many good ways to grind other than mindlessly beating the Elite Four into submission. Not a good implementation of a final boss fight in an otherwise great game.
 
Wukong said:
They were obviously going for the Red treatment from the Johto games for Steven. The problem is, Emerald isn't a sequel to Ruby/Sapphire so the implementation is kind of rife with issues. You also have to grind significantly after defeating the Elite Four in order to prepare for Steven and there aren't many good ways to grind other than mindlessly beating the Elite Four into submission. Not a good implementation of a final boss fight in an otherwise great game.
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Well....to be fair....The same problem also applies to Red.

Also this earlier conversation taught me you can only fight Steven once, which is wild. Even Red respawns when you beat the E4 iirc. Genuinely feels like an oversight.
 
R_N said:
Well....to be fair....The same problem also applies to Red.

Also this earlier conversation taught me you can only fight Steven once, which is wild. Even Red respawns when you beat the E4 iirc. Genuinely feels like an oversight.
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I don't think the Red final boss fight is particularly good either. Mainly due to him exchanging the use of quality Pokémon for utterly bloated levels. There are other issues with that fight but that's the biggest one for me.
 
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