Volo being three letters away from Diavolo should have also warned us.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
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Going back to shinies, it's interesting how the series has to simultaneously tell the player that shinies are special and noteworthy (and worth seeking out) while also insisting that they hold no additional value compared with non-shiny Pokemon. There's a Pokemaniac in G/S/C/HG/SS (iirc) whose post-battle dialogue is something like "Differently-colored Pokemon are more valuable than regular Pokemon. What, you mean that's not true?!" with the typically-mute player character implied to be actively disagreeing. There's also a whole episode of the anime about a shiny hunter depicted as being in the wrong.
It's hard to escape the conclusion that, from an in-universe perspective, having a prized shiny Pokemon that's special to you because of its shininess makes you kinda shallow. Of course, from the player's point of view there's no non-shallow reason to like a particular mon more than any other, since the only features we can really assess are appearance and battle prowess and they don't have actual personalities.
Weirdly, I tend to prefer shiny Pokemon when they're not my usual favourites. I guess I like having a reason to pay attention to a member of a species that I'm not normally all that keen on.
It's hard to escape the conclusion that, from an in-universe perspective, having a prized shiny Pokemon that's special to you because of its shininess makes you kinda shallow. Of course, from the player's point of view there's no non-shallow reason to like a particular mon more than any other, since the only features we can really assess are appearance and battle prowess and they don't have actual personalities.
Weirdly, I tend to prefer shiny Pokemon when they're not my usual favourites. I guess I like having a reason to pay attention to a member of a species that I'm not normally all that keen on.
Does the series tell the player this, though? I mean, the few times I can think of NPCs mentioning it, it's in a very trivial, "this happens" sort of way - generally along the lines of "Oh hello, [player]. Did you know sometimes a Pokemon can have a different colour than usual?" It's only the odd examples like the one you mentioned (and that is, literally, the only one I can think of) which draw attention to shinies as being more valuable. Obviously a lot of people will be motivated to seek them out purely because of that, but they're so rare that most players will go an entire game without ever seeing one, so it doesn't majorly effect them. Villains like Team Rocket and Team Galactic never talk about wanting shiny Pokemon; Mr Pokemon in GSC wants the Red Scale because the Red Gyarados is rare, but he's explicitly deemed a nut who goes wild for obscure rare stuff so he's hardly typical.
Even the methods which make shinies easier to get are usually extremely under-the-radar and only known via guides (nothing in any game as far as I can recall ever so much as hints at the existence of the Masuda Method)*. The only one I can think of which explicitly tells the player "now you can find shinies more easily" is the Shiny Charm - but you have to complete the Pokedex to get it, so that's more justified as why else would you keep on playing after that?
*Wasn't there a bunch of secret coding discovered in the original Diamond and Pearl a while ago relating to increased shiny odds on certain days? I'm sure I didn't dream that but I can't find it anywhere.
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every kirby player when they see someone friendly
This entire discussion about shiny rarity makes me 
. I feel like that Blizzard employee from the Diablo Immortal announcement who asked to much fanfare "Do you guys not have phones?"
As a somewhat more active Wi-Fi Forum hoarder, shiny mons have been somewhat trivialized for me. I have access to a variety of methods to produce almost any shiny mon I want - heck, not only are most of my mons functionally free, I offer a free shiny-hatching service on my trade thread (definitely not an advertisement).
Yes, they're supposed to be rare. And yes, that rarity is what makes them substantially more desirable. But with all the tools available, in practice they aren't that difficult to obtain. An argument could be made that new shiny-hunting methods have made them excessively accessible. But, there has and almost certainly always will be omega-busted ways to go above and beyond in shiny production if you take the time to learn.
Of course, that's not to say your shinnies are any more or less valid - or your mons in general. It's the memories and effort that you nest within them that is important.
. I feel like that Blizzard employee from the Diablo Immortal announcement who asked to much fanfare "Do you guys not have phones?"As a somewhat more active Wi-Fi Forum hoarder, shiny mons have been somewhat trivialized for me. I have access to a variety of methods to produce almost any shiny mon I want - heck, not only are most of my mons functionally free, I offer a free shiny-hatching service on my trade thread (
Yes, they're supposed to be rare. And yes, that rarity is what makes them substantially more desirable. But with all the tools available, in practice they aren't that difficult to obtain. An argument could be made that new shiny-hunting methods have made them excessively accessible. But, there has and almost certainly always will be omega-busted ways to go above and beyond in shiny production if you take the time to learn.
Of course, that's not to say your shinnies are any more or less valid - or your mons in general. It's the memories and effort that you nest within them that is important.
I agree. I got a Shiny Kricketot in PLA, and I hate Kricketot and Kricketune (there's my opinion of the day). But having a Shiny one made me gain a different appreciation for it.
Still hate it though. RIP Fricketune
Understandable, but for me personally as soon as he shows up on every other "shit happened here" was just a major tell.
I also have played a bit too much Persona so... (who played the latest entries understands)
I have tons of shines too, through PokeHome and PoGo, but specifics like which Pokeball is used (Pokemon Go only has Regular, Great, Ultra, and Premier), and whether the Hidden ability is used and unable to be reverted can leave personally shiny hunting the only option.This entire discussion about shiny rarity makes me
As a somewhat more active Wi-Fi Forum hoarder, shiny mons have been somewhat trivialized for me. I have access to a variety of methods to produce almost any shiny mon I want - heck, not only are most of my mons functionally free, I offer a free shiny-hatching service on my trade thread (definitely not an advertisement).
Yes, they're supposed to be rare. And yes, that rarity is what makes them substantially more desirable. But with all the tools available, in practice they aren't that difficult to obtain. An argument could be made that new shiny-hunting methods have made them excessively accessible. But, there has and almost certainly always will be omega-busted ways to go above and beyond in shiny production if you take the time to learn.
Of course, that's not to say your shinnies are any more or less valid - or your mons in general. It's the memories and effort that you nest within them that is important.
I wanted a Shiny Berry Decoration Alcremie with a matching Heavy Ball, but unless I bartered with someone online, I either had to settle with a non-matching ball, or hunting for one myself. Shout out to any ROM hack that lets people swap out Pokeballs for already caught Pokemon.
But it's not just about how many shiny Pokemon I have, but the efficiency of the production methods I have access to. I did all the legwork for Gen 7, and now I can produce flawless shiny mons in ~30 mins (if I have the parent ready, ofc). Hence why I offer my shiny breeding service for free.
In Gen 8, I'm barely even putting in effort for getting my shiny mons. Despite GF's best efforts to make abuse impossible, Den RNG was cracked fairly quickly - and I don't use this method. I've been using Pokemon Automation, which uses an Arduino as a controller to execute actions based on a program. I've just been setting it up before work, and generally I come back to at least 1-2 shiny mons. Mind you, this is without CFW (although CFW can do it better).
Perhaps in a perfect world, shiny Pokemon could be tailored as a rare experience, a once-in-a-few-years kind of joy. But unfortunately, the methods to break sort of emersion are readily available and aren't going anywhere soon.
Also, Heavy Ball Alcremie is on my list to get around to eventually. I think I have 3 mons to go before it'll come time? Come check out the Heroes Home for when that eventually happens (
The only candidates for secret antagonist were Kamado and Volo from the very start of the game, and literally both of them became secret antagonists. Kamado was it temporarily, for the first “ending” which was actually very early, which knocked him out of the running, making the Volo reveal phenomenally obvious.
The most surprising thing about the “secret antagonist” was when Kamado betrayed you, because I thought Volo was gonna be the betrayer the whole time, and assumed only one would be the “secret antagonist”. Upon Kamado’s redemption, Volo was the only option.
To add more of my own thing to this, I really don’t like PLA’s first ending. It’s a great game and a lot of fun, but the first ending in PLA where Kamado betrays you and you catch Dialga / Palkia is whether the gameplay loop sort of dies. No new areas after that, no particularly interesting missions after that, just a lot of doing the same thing over and over slightly guided by side quests. I’ve talked about it with a friend who adores PLA and she agrees that only particularly minded players will actually finish the game, because you have to adore the core gameplay mechanics to push past the sudden loss of positive validation for your actions in the game. It becomes an abyss of backstrikes until you suddenly get a cool ending, which sort of speaks to a lack of good pacing of the story.
They had enough land to work with already, I’m not asking for a whole new area, they just needed to use that land better. In particular, they could open up new camp spots in regions you’ve already visited, or save an area for after the first ending, you don’t really need to go to all 5.
The most surprising thing about the “secret antagonist” was when Kamado betrayed you, because I thought Volo was gonna be the betrayer the whole time, and assumed only one would be the “secret antagonist”. Upon Kamado’s redemption, Volo was the only option.
To add more of my own thing to this, I really don’t like PLA’s first ending. It’s a great game and a lot of fun, but the first ending in PLA where Kamado betrays you and you catch Dialga / Palkia is whether the gameplay loop sort of dies. No new areas after that, no particularly interesting missions after that, just a lot of doing the same thing over and over slightly guided by side quests. I’ve talked about it with a friend who adores PLA and she agrees that only particularly minded players will actually finish the game, because you have to adore the core gameplay mechanics to push past the sudden loss of positive validation for your actions in the game. It becomes an abyss of backstrikes until you suddenly get a cool ending, which sort of speaks to a lack of good pacing of the story.
They had enough land to work with already, I’m not asking for a whole new area, they just needed to use that land better. In particular, they could open up new camp spots in regions you’ve already visited, or save an area for after the first ending, you don’t really need to go to all 5.
Look I don't know how to intro into this neatly it's a friday night ok
Unlike a lot of other people worried about the release date and such, I myself think that Scarlet & Violet can't come soon enough. This has nothing to do with my presumed state of the game or its development, it's simply due to the fact that for a host of reasons, some because of things that have happened with the franchise and others that have nothing to do with it, the whole of Generation 8 has been utterly exhausting and I frankly just want it to finally end and become a thing of the past. I understand that it's natural for the final stretch of a generation to feel slow and stagnant but I swear I never felt anywhere near this burned out in the waning days of Gen 7. From that perspective the only way SV wouldn't be a substantial shot in the arm to my and many others' spirits is if there's another dexit-level PR disaster contained within that's looming over the horizon, but honestly (and I'm on my knees praying this incoming statement doesn't age badly) I cannot envision an even semi-realistic scenario that would actually manage to match that whole shitstorm in severity other than like PokeNFTs or lootboxes, and on the off-chance we do stoop that low it sure as hell ain't getting fixed by a delay regardless of length.
Unlike a lot of other people worried about the release date and such, I myself think that Scarlet & Violet can't come soon enough. This has nothing to do with my presumed state of the game or its development, it's simply due to the fact that for a host of reasons, some because of things that have happened with the franchise and others that have nothing to do with it, the whole of Generation 8 has been utterly exhausting and I frankly just want it to finally end and become a thing of the past. I understand that it's natural for the final stretch of a generation to feel slow and stagnant but I swear I never felt anywhere near this burned out in the waning days of Gen 7. From that perspective the only way SV wouldn't be a substantial shot in the arm to my and many others' spirits is if there's another dexit-level PR disaster contained within that's looming over the horizon, but honestly (and I'm on my knees praying this incoming statement doesn't age badly) I cannot envision an even semi-realistic scenario that would actually manage to match that whole shitstorm in severity other than like PokeNFTs or lootboxes, and on the off-chance we do stoop that low it sure as hell ain't getting fixed by a delay regardless of length.
I think Pokémon is becoming oversaturated.
Can you be more specific?
There have been so many mainline Pokémon games so close together on the Switch.
While I share your overall feeling about Gen VIII, I'm sort of in the opposite camp in that I'm really in no hurry for Scarlet&Violet to arrive. Not because I expect a long development time to result in a better game (though that's certainly to be hoped) but because I genuinely feel that the best times for the franchise (and honestly the fandom as a whole) have been when there's something new on the horizon. That sense of anticipation and curiosity is one of the things I loved most about the franchise growing up, and it's where a lot of the magic happens for me.
Right now we don't know enough about S&V to say for certain whether they'll be great or terrible and that sense of unknowing is exciting. I'm still jazzed whenever they announce a new game, even if I'm not hugely invested in it (I even found myself excited for SwSh's DLCs). I've barely engaged with Gen VIII at all outside of keeping up with news and discussions on this forum and I'm still as exhausted by it as you are, and the approach of Gen IX does take some of the poison out of that.
I'm not even necessarily optimistic about Scarlet and Violet, but I feel like this time, right now, is the perfect sweet spot between the good and the bad. Maybe it's my rapidly-advancing age and the fact that I expect everything to be a disappointment nowadays (god, even writing that felt insufferable) or just the growing sense I have that Pokemon's best days are behind it, but this bit, for me, now, is the best bit. If I were a bit younger I'd be squirming with excitement and desperately wishing the new games were here already. But as things stand I'm actually really happy just to live in this moment.
Fun fact, have you ever considered the fact that the pokemon people own on their cartridge are basically NFTs of the actual Pokemon, and people have gone that far on toxicity over basically NFTs?
You don't own Charizard, you own a copy of Charizard!
What caused Generation 8 fatigue is a combination of these factors:
- PR disasters in general, especially how they addresssed Dexit.
- How mishandled SwSh and BDSP are, former having disastrous development issues and the other a result of possible misunderstandings.
- How quickly Dynamax and Gigantamax overstayed their welcome despite the interesting concept and the potentials, but mostly because of poor intergenerational distribution between older Pokémon, poor balance overall, how GF dropped the ball when the DLC arrived, and a combination with some of the worst overspecializations to date regarding new Pokémon.
- A more positive one that nonetheless contributed, how many Pokémon spin-off titles we got within a single generation.
- And lastly, how much of a tough-act-to-follow Legends: Arceus proved to be despite that game’s flaws.
Well, to be fair, when the send-off is the complete trainwreck that is Legends, it's very easy to wish for Gen VIII to end up as quickly as possible.
Had it been just Let's GO, Sword/Shield and BDSP, the generation wouldn't have such a negative light on it. Unfortunately, the already-known problems of SV don't give much hope for the future...
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I can't say I'm tired of gen 8. Mostly because, in a way, I'm still waiting for gen 8 to begin.
I don't like the structural changes of SwSh and Arceus, and I've even barely been playing gen 8 on Showdown because I find the existence of heavy-duty boots to be miserable. Sure, I've played BDSP and MD DX, but neither makes any effort to use new mons or mechanics. Every time I'm looking at something across generations, Gen 8 comes up as "no data." I don't feel I need gen 9 immediately when there's an entire list of mons I haven't yet experienced, I feel I need a game that puts those mons in a situation worth experiencing.
Gen 9 may come for me, and leave a hole where gen 8 would be. Or, it may not, and I'll put another 150 hours into Battle Frontier Simulator 2005. I'm patient, I've waited longer for some of my other favourite series.
I don't like the structural changes of SwSh and Arceus, and I've even barely been playing gen 8 on Showdown because I find the existence of heavy-duty boots to be miserable. Sure, I've played BDSP and MD DX, but neither makes any effort to use new mons or mechanics. Every time I'm looking at something across generations, Gen 8 comes up as "no data." I don't feel I need gen 9 immediately when there's an entire list of mons I haven't yet experienced, I feel I need a game that puts those mons in a situation worth experiencing.
Gen 9 may come for me, and leave a hole where gen 8 would be. Or, it may not, and I'll put another 150 hours into Battle Frontier Simulator 2005. I'm patient, I've waited longer for some of my other favourite series.
I agree. While we don't have a release date for S/V yet, I think it is a safe bet to say that they will be released in November. At that point, three new main series games will have been released within a year. That's just too much. While I skipped BD/SP, having both L:A and S/V this close to each other does not feel good. I really wish they had waited until next year for the new generation to begin. Before the announcement of S/V, I was already fully booked regarding the games I have planned to play on my Switch this year. In fact, I was happy about BOTW2 getting delayed until next year since I wouldn't have had time to play it until later if it had been released this year.
I have never really been a fan of the yearly releases for main series Pokémon games, for that matter. I think they could wait a little longer between each release, like a year and a half or something. Or release additional content for games that already exist instead of a new game, like they did with the S/S DLC. As for being burnt out on Pokémon, I started feeling that way already during Gen 7 and it started for real during Gen 8, despite the fact that I have only bought 2 of the main series games for the Switch. Speaking of which, I guess that my enthusiasm for Pokémon games on the Switch isn't as high as for previous console generations as I have been skipping some games completely, which never happened in the past.
I am looking forward to S/V, but their upcoming release is making me feel stressed rather than excited. I realize that it is partly my own fault for wanting to play so many games in a short time span, but I felt like that a little even before S/V were announced and they did not exactly make things better.
I read through the discussion about Volo and I decided to add some short thoughts on that as well. If I hadn't gotten spoiled on Volo being the antagonist, I would not have seen it coming at all. I think he was a really good twist villain. I haven't played a whole lot of JRPGs outside of Pokémon and I am often pretty bad at figuring out plot twists in stories, both in games and in books (might be one reason as for why I like reading so much), so that was something I liked about him and the story in L:A.
As for the Volo battle, I thought it was okay. I can't say I liked it, but that's partly because I don't like the changes to the battle system in L:A. It is the first game in the main series where I don't enjoy Pokémon battles, and that's not a good thing at all. Before facing Volo, I had grinded a lot. IIRC I had trained one of my teams to level 75 before I battled him, giving me a rather easy victory. If I had been battling Volo in a game with the good, traditional battle system, I would probably have liked it better and I might not have overleveled at all in order to make it a bit more challenging and enjoyable.
Guess I should add an unpopular opinion of my own, also about L:A. I don't think the game is as great as many other Pokémon fans make it out to be. I liked it, but it has a quite large amount of flaws which drag down the gameplay experience for me. If I were to rank the Pokémon games, L:A would be somewhere in the middle, not at the top. I really disagree with it being the flawless masterpiece that many other fans make it out to be, it is definitely not my dream Pokémon game and I actually liked Sword better. But at the same time, I don't think L:A is the utter garbage that other fans make it out to be. I think it is quite good (just not that good) and fun to play. But still, it could have been so much better. On the whole, L:A has overtaken S/M as my new least favorite main series game in 3D. And to end this with an ultra-unpopular opinion: I still think X/Y are still the best main series games in 3D.
I have some more unpopular opinions about L:A, but I'll save them for another time.
Legends Arceus is far from flawless, but I'd still take it over any other Pokemon game on the Switch, and especially over any other Sinnoh game any day of the week. Platinum was solid overall, and its best moments are some of the best in the series, but generally still felt incredibly slow and poorly paced. Sword/Shield were propped up exponentially by the DLC, but even then, it was basically just a $30 price tag for two more glorified Wild Areas. And to hell with Diamond/Pearl, BDSP, and LGPE.
I will say that one thing I wasn't a huge fan of were noble battles. I like the idea of shaking up the typical battle formula or having a new type of battle, but I don't think this was the way to do it. Most of them basically amount to just dodging attacks or throwing balms. But the time it takes for you to dodge an attack and aim your next throw means you'll probably only get to throw about 3 balms at most in between attacks. And considering it takes somewhere around 50 or so to calm them (by rough estimate, at least), these battles ultimately just end up becoming a test of patience more than anything else.
I will say that one thing I wasn't a huge fan of were noble battles. I like the idea of shaking up the typical battle formula or having a new type of battle, but I don't think this was the way to do it. Most of them basically amount to just dodging attacks or throwing balms. But the time it takes for you to dodge an attack and aim your next throw means you'll probably only get to throw about 3 balms at most in between attacks. And considering it takes somewhere around 50 or so to calm them (by rough estimate, at least), these battles ultimately just end up becoming a test of patience more than anything else.
I dunno what to think, I was very on the fence about Gen 9 coming this year, that Legends Arceus could get more support or add a competitiveñy oriented Gen 8 game that has all the mons to shake the meta and buy time. But what's done is done already...
I'm not even excited for SCVI, or have the need to follow some attention seeking leaker. I'm just waiting for it to be done.
I'm not even excited for SCVI, or have the need to follow some attention seeking leaker. I'm just waiting for it to be done.
I am a bit on the fence for Scarlet and Violet coming out this year, since I think it is a bit too close to Legends Arceus and BDSP. I am fine with BDSP and Legends Arceus coming out near one another since they are sorta like sibling games and play differently enough from one another to feel distinct. However, Scarlet and Violet coming out so soon after them does feel like Gamefreak is releasing too many games at once.
That being said, I do wanna transition to a new competitive format since we've been playing SwSh formats for the last 2 years. I thought BDSP would be a refreshing change of pace, and it was for a brief period, but the de-powercrept metagame and a lot of Pokemon losing old options they had sorta rubs me the wrong way.
I am also hoping that GF does improve the online options. I actually have had a lot more fun playing SwSh and BDSP online than I have with USUM, but compared to Smash, the lack of options for battling just feel weird. Why do I need to select premade rulesets instead of customizing details like the Timer, Item Clause, Dynamax etc manually? Sword and Shield also seem to place a greater emphasis on online battling, so why remove the ability to save replays? I am hoping these changes were just an experiment gone wrong and GF listens to feedback to change them in Scarlet and Violet (which they seem to have done for other features like Pokemon Models). But I am getting off-topic.
Its kind of weird. Normally, I am not a fan of yearly releases for games because I think the game would benefit more from more dev time, but during these Pokemon "drought" periods (like between 2014 - 2016) I would rather have the game come sooner than later. Might just be a natural reaction or it could be hype, idk.
As for PR disasters, the best way to ignore it is just avoid social media sites like this, Twitter, Youtube, etc. which is easier said than done admittingly. Perhaps its just the fact I'm growing older and more aware or perhaps there has been a shift in the way people talk online, but something I have begun to notice more and more is that in order to generate drama, people will hang on to the barest thread and pull it as hard as possible to get likes, views, clout, etc.
Welcome to the World of Capitalism! Seriously speaking, I'm definitely disappointed that SV were announced so soon after Legends. I really enjoyed Legends, to me its the game that got me interested in Pokémon games again after the disappointment that was SwSh and skipping over BDSP. This isn’t the first time they have done this, XY were announced three months after BW2 in the west, but that was only in the west. I guess the TPC's avarice ( Yes, I think it is safe to call TPC greedy after the abomination of siding with Tencent and creating Pokémon UNITE ) has led them to realize that not only do the games themselves are incredibly lucrative, but the merchandise itself is even more lucrative; and since People will buy Pokémon games regardless of quality, the games need to come out yearly to maximize profits, even if it comes at the cost of the employee's mental and physical health ( In case you did not notice, I'm anti-Capitalism and will stop myself before I go write an essay ) and the quality and innovation of the games.
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I ask this as a legitimate question, not a rhetorical one - how do you explain the stretch from 2008-2012? There were four main series games produced during this four year period - Pt, HGSS, BW, B2W2. Those might be the four best games in the series (though I think Emerald deserves consideration).
Was the move to 3D that much of a chore for GF that quality was compromised so badly? The pressure that comes from a yearly release seems like more of an excuse than an explanation for a company of GF's size, given their resources. Once upon a time, yearly releases did nothing to stop the quality of games GF was churning out during the Golden Age of 2008-2012. I just have a hard time believing that that's the root cause of the problem now.
And I would imagine the pressure of 3D rendition would just be proportionate to the time in which such games are being produced. I don't see other game franchises like Dragon Quest struggling with the shift to 3D.
Agree with this generally. One of the things I love about Pokémon (which I believe Ironmage made a comment about once upon a time) was the symmetry of boss battles compared to other JRPG series. I like the idea that it's Blue's six versus your six, or Cynthia's six versus your six which give the games a more immersive feel, rather than the typical "slay the dragon" OP boss versus a tiny little earthling like yourself in some bloated David vs. Goliath affair. As such, I wasn't a fan of the Volo fight for obvious reasons which broke the symmetry of a normal Pokémon boss fight.
As for the gameplay itself, not the biggest fan of the heavy shift towards crafting and catching over battling, which I always thought highlighted the core, borderline addictive strength of Pokémon's signature gameplay. Removing that clear, battle-centric sense of progression removes to me what makes Pokémon's gameplay stand out amongst other JRPGs and allows it to maintain its niche. As much as I respect GF for taking the risk it did, if it really wants to go open-world there a metric ton of other game franchises that are way ahead of them in that department. Hopefully GF can refine that formula moving forward but I think the open-world space is a lot more saturated and competitive than the one Pokémon previously inhabited.
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