Super Smash Bros. Brawl Discussion #2 (spoilers)

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Considering Melee, being as unpolished as it is and with only 25 characters, six of which were clones, lasted people seven years (Hell, I'd probably be playing it right now if I weren't so interested in Brawl), I think Brawl with more balanced gameplay, more items and modes, along with 35 characters and only 4 clones will be awesome and last us just as long as Melee did and will be more enjoyable in the process.

That said, I was at least hoping each character would have a different final smash. Falco would NEVER be caught in a landmaster and Wolf has never appeared in anything but his ship. Hell, if he were in a tank, it would definitely not look a thing like Fox's.

And Ganondorf is the only clone that I'm disappointed in being a clone. I'm probably actually going to use Wolf over both Falco and Fox and I always preferred Melee's young Link to adult Link.

The roster isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people are saying, but it definitely could have been better in numerous ways. I'd probably give up any of the other hundred extra modes or bonuses for a few more characters or the current ones changed in some way.
 
Hustino said:
Considering Melee, being as unpolished as it is and with only 25 characters, six of which were clones, lasted people seven years (Hell, I'd probably be playing it right now if I weren't so interested in Brawl), I think Brawl with more balanced gameplay, more items and modes, along with 35 characters and only 4 clones will be awesome and last us just as long as Melee did and will be more enjoyable in the process.

That said, I was at least hoping each character would have a different final smash. Falco would NEVER be caught in a landmaster and Wolf has never appeared in anything but his ship. Hell, if he were in a tank, it would definitely not look a thing like Fox's.

And Ganondorf is the only clone that I'm disappointed in being a clone. I'm probably actually going to use Wolf over both Falco and Fox and I always preferred Melee's young Link to adult Link.

The roster isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people are saying, but it definitely could have been better in numerous ways. I'd probably give up any of the other hundred extra modes or bonuses for a few more characters or the current ones changed in some way.
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Ganondorf has a new up B though. You sure he's still a clone?
 
I'm not sure what you're refering to, but if it's that Ganondorf's B+Up can break targets, do we know if Captain Falcon can do that too?
 
Ekimaster said:
I'm not sure what you're refering to, but if it's that Ganondorf's B+Up can break targets, do we know if Captain Falcon can do that too?
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Not only the fact it breaks targets, it's totally different from Falcon's. He spins while going upward and I think he does a punch too. Falcon has the same upB where he grabs them and yells YES!
 
I vehemently disagree with all the sentiment that our expectations were too high for this game. Sakurai had the chance to make one of the greatest games of all time, and instead opted for a very good game. With Geno, Issac (or some Golden Sun character), Bomberman, a chibi-Ridley, and no clones, would anyone who enjoyed the first two not be off the walls ecstatic right now?
 
CaptKirby said:
I vehemently disagree with all the sentiment that our expectations were too high for this game. Sakurai had the chance to make one of the greatest games of all time, and instead opted for a very good game. With Geno, Issac (or some Golden Sun character), Bomberman, a chibi-Ridley, and no clones, would anyone who enjoyed the first two not be off the walls ecstatic right now?
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That's a rather subjective question. I enjoyed the first two Smash games, and I'm already off the walls ecstatic as is.

But for the sake of argument, if I wasn't, I personally wouldn't be off the walls because none of those characters interest me in the slightest (in fact, I'd be off the walls furious if *tabooed word* made it in). Not to mention we got along fine with clones in Melee, and they look more varied than the ones in SSBM at that as far as movesets are concerned. The new characters such as the long-awaited Metaknight and Dedede, oddballs like Olimar and PT, and of course Sonic and Snake more than make up for the lack of Ridley (who would probably be the only character in that entire group you named that has a shot at getting in anyway) and Issac.

I'm not saying that the game is better for not having those characters you mentioned. I got what I wanted (Sonic, PT, Falco), so I don't really care if anyone else makes it in and we turn out to have a bigger roster (except for *tabooed word*. Fuck him. But hell, I've even learned to lighten up on Ridley some after quinnydinny explained Ridley's role in the Metroid storyline). But on the flip side, the inclusion of those characters alone does not and will not in and of themselves make Brawl any less or any more fantastic, nor will they, in and of themselves, make smash magically better simply because they graced us with a PC appearance.

The fans of those characters would be off the wall ecstatic, but as hard as it is to comprehend, not everyone is a die-hard lover of Ridley and co., whether they just hate those characters or don't really care about them.
 
ROB didn't deserve the spot at all. I'm now seriously pissed that there's no Golden Sun rep, even with Isaac doing so well in the polls. Instead we got the little shitty robot who only appeared in Mario Kart DS.....
 
who only appeared in Mario Kart DS.....
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Uh no


But anyway, people are only complaining because they expected Sakurai to focus on multiplayer like he did for the other games. Melee had a big jump in characters from SSB64, and why? Because the single player was a diversion at best. This time it's supposed to be almost like a standalone game of its own, there's a crazy amount of misc. content, and as a result multiplayer just got shafted somewhat.
 
Wow, I don't know what's worse, SSBM's Young Link, or Brawl's Toon Link.

Seriously, I thought that shit was a joke until I found gameplay footage of it.
 
This is minor, but at least ZSSamus really does have that Krystal's voice actor (or at least a voice actor), but I think Samus is the same as Melee (random beeps) for some reason.
 
Wishy said:
Sakurai pulled a Melee. :\

3 Starfox reps was ok, but why couldn't Wolf be original? Come on, Sakurai could have used any of the weapons from Assault (Rocket Launcher, Machine / Gatling Gun, etc). But nuuuu, we get another aesthetically different Fox. Wolf is awesome, but honestly. Sakurai could have done better here (again).

I hate people trying to justify clones. You're in denial people, clones are crap. Ganondorf had other possibilities for movesets, Toon Link had Wind Waker / Minish Cap weapons at his disposable, Falco had that dual-wielding thing going for him in that one screenshot, and Wolf had the option of a plethora of other weapons. 4 characters could have had completely new, fresh movesets. Why opt for recycling other characters' movesets?

Well actually, 5... Ness and Lucas have the exact same smashes and FS.

On that note of FS, Wolf could have just... Jumped into his Wolfen and laser'd up the whole place. But no, we get more tank FS. :|

It's not like Sakurai didn't have time.

EDIT: Well, Brawl will still be awesome! I'm fine with 35 characters, I guess! Maybe in another 7 years, SSB4 will have 49. 8D
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Lol, you're sooo right Wishy! I don't mind 3 Fox reps either, but I do believe WOLF should have had justice done to him. I'm overjoyed that he's in (because I like him better than Fox as a character anyways) and I really wanna see him kick ass. Hopefully, I can main him ^_^! But yeah, his final smash is retarded.

"Oh hey Fox! Can I borrow your landmaster for a while? I'll spray paint it black and make it EVIL while i'm at it, mwahahahah!" LOL (RETARD!!!)
 
Actually...now that I read Kirby's post, though this game will probably be amazing, Kirby is right. It'll still probably be a great game, but there really are a whole lot of things that could've been in and weren't. It just sort of hit me that this is the only new Smash Bros game we'll be getting for the next 5+ years.

And after they put that damn Geno cameo in Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time to play with us, too...
 
Maku~thehowlingvortex~ said:
Lol, you're sooo right Wishy! I don't mind 3 Fox reps either, but I do believe WOLF should have had justice done to him. I'm overjoyed that he's in (because I like him better than Fox as a character anyways) and I really wanna see him kick ass. Hopefully, I can main him ^_^! But yeah, his final smash is retarded.

"Oh hey Fox! Can I borrow your landmaster for a while? I'll spray paint it black and make it EVIL while i'm at it, mwahahahah!" LOL (RETARD!!!)
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Black? Did you seen wolf's tank? He spray painted it PINK!
 
Brain said:
Oh come on. TWO Fox clones? If they're to have clones, why not have Wolf be a heavy clone of, say, ZSS? At least we could get that set without final smashes. Better yet, make Wolf the heavy Falcon clone and give Ganondorf some love. Or they could have had Ridley as a Charizard clone with an unique down+b. Heck, I'd be ok with cloning any of Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard/Sheik/Zelda as a standalone version of them. Or, why not, Ludwig von Koopa (fuck Bowser Jr.) as a clone of Bowser. Dark Samus as a clone of Samus. K Rool as a clone of DK. But three Fox? Come on :( They should have eliminated Falco.

The full roster isn't bad by any means, despite three Fox (I know I'm going to be using Wolf - he's ten times cooler than Fox and Falco combined). It's just that when you look at all the characters revealed on the Dojo and the ones we knew from Melee, and when you consider that Lucario is mostly a Mewtwo remake, the unrevealed characters feature _ONE_ fully original character. And that character, of all characters, is ROB. In Melee, we only had Marth, Mewtwo and G&W and that's still three times Brawl's original material. I concede (assume) that they have retooled the clones enough that they have at least one distinctive thing (and Lucario looks pretty cool so far despite being a terrible pokemon), but the unlockable roster is still a letdown when you compare it to the stellar starting roster. Serves me right for having such high expectations.

Edit: taking on the final roster, here are my complaints (which I think are legitimate):
- Three Fox are too many.
- Ganondorf still being a Falcon clone is an _insult_ to the king of evil. An insult, I say.
- You can't select ZSS separately? (I hope I'm wrong about that one)
- Personally, I think that if there are clones then all characters should have a clone, just to be fair and not overrepresent a moveset. Maybe that's just me, though.
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This man speaks the truth.

Like i said i will play the game until my eyes bleed bla,bla,bla... but it's a bit of a down to know that a cool character like Wolf went the way of Fox and Falco. Totally NOT cool.

Brain said it better than me, Ganondorf is awful as a clone of shitty C. Falcon, i mean Ganondorf is way more important than Falcon why he can't have his original set?, like if he don't use a shit load of attacks from all his games?(throw energy, fire, use of swords/pitchfork and so forth) to borrow some shitty punches and kicks?, what were they thinking!. Probably he is not a clone, i haven't seen definitive footage, but if he is; shame on you :(.

Yeah if clones were again a constant, then there was no excuse for the roster number, if you already allow things like Wolf, Falco,Young Link, Ness and.... same Ganondorf, then let all the people come back like Roy, Dr. Mario, Mewtwo... even make new clones like the example of Ridley being a Charizard with a different down B. Why the Mario franchise has this time only 4 reps?, i mean Star fox that has only one truly epic game (maybe two) has 3....

Like i said, 35 was a good number for me, until i realized this Wolf fiasco... Wolf wouldn't be a Fox clone, under any circumstance, is like he is a nemesis to him. 35 would be an outstanding number if they all were different or with a lot of changes. Mostly Ganondorf, i'm very disappointed about that.

The concept of clone is so vague, but i'm with the people that thinks; same animation/attacks=IS THE SAME THING, and i think this point is valid.
 
the Lexx said:
hahaha

Toon Link is the most disappointing for me actually =[ I have no idea why they put him in.
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I thought the whole reason people wanted Toon Link was because it was a character that could have a unique moveset from its games as opposed to normal Link, and sort of spiritually replace Young Link. Which is half of what we got.
 
Comedy options about Wolf currently are...
  1. People are claiming still that the roster is fake with Wolf on it.
  2. Wolf actually got the Where's Waldo? treatment. Should've made a left on Albuquerque.
  3. People are complaining he's less cool because of a lack of an eye patch. Yar mateys. (They say he is basically Fox).
    • Super Nobie to the rescue
    • Nobie20: bwah
      Nobie20: it's his cybernetic eye
  4. People are claiming still that the roster is fake with Wolf on it.
Note: These are funny but truthful options. I know there are more, but I can't think of anything right now.
 
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