Unpopular opinions

[Arkm]

To be fair that was before I got to the discussion how a double weakness doesn't hold a mon back.

Though I'll agree that if they made a Poison/Electric defensive Pokemon it could be good with the right stats (and maybe Ability), the two counter examples you gave have some other things going for it:

Magnezone has 11 Resistances plus its Magnet Pull Ability makes it an excellent Steel-type trapper (note many sets before Gen VIII had it needing HP Fire, and Gen VIII may have gotten rid of HP Fire but gave it the amazing Body Press).

Heatran is a Legendary so it has a high BST to work with. If a com mon had 91/106/106 defenses, even if it was given a low Speed, it would still be struggling to give its offense stats a good amount of points at least without a case of min-maxing. But since Heatran is a Legendary with a 600+ BST, pfft, it still has 297 points to work with, 220 points after giving it 77 Speed.

Almost all good defensive pokemon and good stats and abilities. Just look Duraludon,


As i have said earlier, Eelektross with a secondary poison type would be busted. Having only one weakness, one immunity and 8 resistance is too much even with mediocre bulk.

But even if we take it ability levitate and give it something like volt absorb, intimidate and regenerator. And give a more defensive stats spread like 100/60/100/105/100/50 it would still be OU tier. Even with any recovery.

Of course if it had bad stats it would be shit but so would any other mon.

Just give toxapex electric/poison typing and it would be as good as original pex if not better.

 

[Pikachu315111]

As i have said earlier, Eelektross with a secondary poison type would be busted. Having only one weakness, one immunity and 8 resistance is too much even with mediocre bulk.

(...)

Just give toxapex electric/poison typing and it would be as good as original pex if not better.

Or, instead of trying to force a secondary Type on an existing Pokemon, how about it be a completely new Poison/Electric Pokemon. Maybe a Platypus or maybe the next Pikaclone can be a Electric/Poison solenodon or/& short-tailed shrew. But we're on the edge of wishlisting now so better stop (though you may also be interested in Smogon's CAP Plasmanta)

 

[A_Wild_Noob_Appeared!]

And I agree, Mega Evos need a rebalancing. Infact, I found an old post where I posted some ideas for how I think they could improve Megas:

I've never had an issue with the strict 100 BST increase because it can effectively be bent anyways by putting points in a dump stat or min-maxing. I don't the specific numbers you provided work that well (few Megas are outside of the 450-550 BST range in base form), and in general I think that stat dumping/minmaxing does well enough in most cases.

The Megas with the lowest BSTs are Sableye, Mawile, Beedrill, Medicham, and Audino. Most of those do well enough, and Audino being bad is more because of the useless ability than the BST. Every other Mega has a BST higher than 450 in base form, so for any that are too weak it was not only because their BSTs are too low.*

The Megas with the highest BSTs aren't necessarily the most broken ones either. Blaziken, Gengar, Kangaskhan, and Lucario all would not receive a BST decrease under this proposal (and they could have been nerfed via stat dumping if the devs really wanted to). A lot of the Megas for 600 BST Pokemon don't even offer a huge viability increase (Tyranitar, Garchomp, Latios, Latias), it's just that the base forms were already very strong to begin with.

Out of the 700+ BST Megas which are considered broken:

• Mewtwo is already broken in its base form, and it's Megas don't improve that much on it.
• The Primals and Rayquaza-M are extremely strong even by Ubers standards, but their base forms are cover legends and they have advantages that typical Megas do not (not taking up the Mega slot for the Primals, being able to hold an item for Rayquaza). I think that this is the main factor that drives them over the edge, rather than the 770 BST (honestly, Kyogre would prefer Scarf/Specs if Drizzle could remove Desolate Land and Primal Kyogre took up the Mega slot).
• Salamence-M and Metagross-M are good examples of where the high BST makes them hard to balance. Unlike Tyranitar, Garchomp, and the Latis, they get much better abilities upon Mega Evolving. They already "stat dump" a lot (Salamence only gets +10 Atk and +20 Spe), but the dumped defense points just makes them harder to revenge kill because they're already pretty bulky in base form.

So ultimately, does deviating from the 100 BST change help that much? It's only really targeted towards Salamence and Metagross, because the other broken Megas are either 1) broken despite having a fairly typical BST 2) already broken in base form.

*You could argue that in theory it would be harder to make future Megas for low-BST Pokemon without signature/over-the-top Abilities, but I think min-maxing can get most of the way. Even if Mawile-M "only" had Tough Claws, it could be made almost as strong as it is currently by extracting 30 points from SpA to put into Atk. Regardless, I don't think having too few stat points was the main issue for any actually existing Megas.

 

[Arkm]

Or, instead of trying to force a secondary Type on an existing Pokemon, how about it be a completely new Poison/Electric Pokemon. Maybe a Platypus or maybe the next Pikaclone can be a Electric/Poison solenodon or/& short-tailed shrew. But we're on the edge of wishlisting now so better stop (though you may also be interested in Smogon's CAP Plasmanta)

Horrible HP, bad abilities, no recovery. Whoever designed this pokemon didn't knew anything about competitive pokemon at all.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Horrible HP, bad abilities, no recovery. Whoever designed this pokemon didn't knew anything about competitive pokemon at all.

HP matters a lot less than defenses when it comes to bulk. Keep in mind that Rotom-Appliance is considered a bulky Pokemon and has only 50 HP, and Toxapex is considered an extremely bulky Pokemon even when it's just sitting there and not healing and it also has only 50 HP. Plasmanta is about as bulky as Claydol, just with the physical and special preference swapped.

As for who designed Plasmanta, CAP Pokemon are designed by the entire CAP community. The goal of the CAP project is not to create viable Pokemon, but to explore aspects of competitive Pokemon; every CAP Pokemon is an experiment. The best example of this that I know of is Equilibra, who was designed to explore delayed attacks like Future Sight and Doom Desire. It's a big reason for why those moves have suddenly become prominent this gen, because it showed that they're actually very powerful (to the point where they had to nerf Equilibra at least twice).

If you'd like to go tell everyone in the CAP community that none of them know anything about competitive Pokemon, I'm sure they'd love to hear your feedback.

 

[Bakugames]

To be fair, plasmanta is ass, but unless you make a pokemon that's meant to be broken, most of the old caps become outdated and bad like most official pokemon, outside a couple warriors that maintain their niches.

Also stop replying to that guy, at this point it's just trolling

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

SV Mechanic Spoilers

Wait, wouldn't that be a reason Blissey would want to be Fairy? Blissey (and Chansey) have non-existing physical Defense and its only Weakness, Fighting, is a Physical-focused Type. By becoming Fairy it'll not only resist Fighting (giving it SOME kind of cushion its high HP can make us of), the two weaknesses it gains are also less of an issue: Poison (which is as much as a Special Type as a Physical) and Steel (which is a defensive focused Type). Not to mention the additional resistance to Dark (and Bug) and immunity to Dragon is much more helpful than just its immunity to Ghost.

I'm going to spoiler-tag this because I'm not too sure we can actually discuss SV stuff here.

SV Mechanic Spoilers

Honestly, burning your Tera on a passive mon like Blissey sounds like the worst idea ever.

The reason is simple. The biggest deal when it comes to using Tera is the one turn you can surprise your opponent with it.

For example, let's say you're battling someone and they switched in a Conkeldurr on your Blissey. To begin with, the immediate expectation is for you to switch to a counter, so I'd hardly expect them to click Drain Punch, but let's assume said player does it.

You Tera your Blissey and tank the Drain Punch. Now what?

What exactly do you get out of that? What's stopping said Conkeldurr from clicking Poison Jab and making this all a waste? What is that Blissey going to do on that pivotal turn where you bamboozled your opponent?

Don't get me wrong, defensive Teras will be important, but not on such a passive mon like Blissey.

 

[Coronis]

Mm in general Megas

I'm going to spoiler-tag this because I'm not too sure we can actually discuss SV stuff here.

SV Mechanic Spoilers

Honestly, burning your Tera on a passive mon like Blissey sounds like the worst idea ever.

The reason is simple. The biggest deal when it comes to using Tera is the one turn you can surprise your opponent with it.

For example, let's say you're battling someone and they switched in a Conkeldurr on your Blissey. To begin with, the immediate expectation is for you to switch to a counter, so I'd hardly expect them to click Drain Punch, but let's assume said player does it.

You Tera your Blissey and tank the Drain Punch. Now what?

What exactly do you get out of that? What's stopping said Conkeldurr from clicking Poison Jab and making this all a waste? What is that Blissey going to do on that pivotal turn where you bamboozled your opponent?

Don't get me wrong, defensive Teras will be important, but not on such a passive mon like Blissey.

Thankyou

 

[DrPumpkinz]

To touch on the Let's Go talk from before, I'd be interested in a Let's Go Johto if it follows Let's Go Kanto in replacing the rival with someone who isn't a massive jackass. One of the most interesting things that Let's Go did was the Lavender Town sidequest, where instead of Blue just showing up for a battle and then dipping as usual, Trace plays an active part in the story, befriends the baby Cubone (that scene with the Gen 2 Lavender Town music is great) and adds the Cubone to his team for the rest of the game.

It's cool to see how a story is changed when you swap out the major characters.

 

[Worldie]

To touch on the Let's Go talk from before, I'd be interested in a Let's Go Johto if it follows Let's Go Kanto in replacing the rival with someone who isn't a massive jackass. One of the most interesting things that Let's Go did was the Lavender Town sidequest, where instead of Blue just showing up for a battle and then dipping as usual, Trace plays an active part in the story, befriends the baby Cubone (that scene with the Gen 2 Lavender Town music is great) and adds the Cubone to his team for the rest of the game.

It's cool to see how a story is changed when you swap out the major characters.

I honestly think Let's Go was a very good "re-remake".

At this point just updating a game to match modern standards is kinda pointless (see BDSP), sure you can add the latest generational mechanic but realistically it's stuff you "already seen" and will know what will be coming.

Let's Go being an almost complete reimagination is probably the correct choice if they plan to revive older regions without just "remaking the game".

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

At this point just updating a game to match modern standards is kinda pointless (see BDSP), sure you can add the latest generational mechanic but realistically it's stuff you "already seen" and will know what will be coming.

I don’t think an ORAS-level remake is that right now. Of course if they make Legends: Victini/Meloetta/Genesect/whatever (hot take we don’t need a Legends Kyurem, Legends is supposed to explore the stories of mythicals not prominent in the original games, and also the Original Dragon is intentionally vague) that could cut into development resources, but they can already reuse the newest gen’s game engine, it wouldn’t be that hard to put a little effort into making the game look fresh.

I also don’t think a Let’s Go Johto is that likely for a few reasons: the people they tried to pull from Go with LGPE have already played that game and theoretically been inducted into the main series, Johto is not half as nostalgic as Kanto (and less connected to Go), and Pokemon Go has been dropping in popularity for a while. They’ll probably make some kind of Johto remake but I don’t think they’ll make another Let’s Go.

 

[Millky95]

I don’t think an ORAS-level remake is that right now. Of course if they make Legends: Victini/Meloetta/Genesect/whatever (hot take we don’t need a Legends Kyurem, Legends is supposed to explore the stories of mythicals not prominent in the original games, and also the Original Dragon is intentionally vague) that could cut into development resources, but they can already reuse the newest gen’s game engine, it wouldn’t be that hard to put a little effort into making the game look fresh.

I also don’t think a Let’s Go Johto is that likely for a few reasons: the people they tried to pull from Go with LGPE have already played that game and theoretically been inducted into the main series, Johto is not half as nostalgic as Kanto (and less connected to Go), and Pokemon Go has been dropping in popularity for a while. They’ll probably make some kind of Johto remake but I don’t think they’ll make another Let’s Go.

Johto is perfect for another Legends style game

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm going to spoiler-tag this because I'm not too sure we can actually discuss SV stuff here.

We weren't discussing the SV mechanic.

 

[Siggu]

At this point just updating a game to match modern standards is kinda pointless (see BDSP), sure you can add the latest generational mechanic but realistically it's stuff you "already seen" and will know what will be coming.

I think that approach still works really well. The thing is that Diamond and Pearl needed way more than just matching modern standards...

Doing the same to the Gen V games would yield significantly better results.

 

[Ironmage]

When it comes to reimagining the Johto storyline, I'm not really sold on the Let's Go style because of it lacking mechanics. There's a lot of potential for the induced evolution stuff Team Rocket was doing around Mohagony to be tied to whatever power-up mechanic the devs want, but that mechanic would likely have to be prominent beforehand. Think ORAS's implementation of megas rather than Let's Go's.

 

[Local Dog]

I mean what did BDSP do to match any modern standards? Have cheap chibi graphics? A new score? Being significantly easier until the elite 4?

It's just a port of DP in my eyes that looks worse

 

[Coronis]

Johto is perfect for another Legends style game

Would have to be Celebi surely.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

• Crystal Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user if Ice-type; User receives neutral damage from Rock- & Fire-type moves; User's Ice-type moves are neutral effective against Fire- & Water-types)
• Thought Process: The Ice-type hardens its crystal body to a thicker density. This means a thrown rock can no longer shatter it (though a precise karate chop can cause deep enough cracks; and though harder than a rock it's still no match for the strength of steel) and heat takes a lot longer to melt it. Also, with it being colder, Ice moves quicker deplete the heat shield of Fire-types and finally be cold enough to freeze Water-types.
  
  
• Diamond Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user is Rock-type; User becomes neutral to Fighting, Grass, & Water-type moves; User's Rock-type moves are neutral effective against Fighting- and Steel-types)
• Though Process: The Rock-type increases its body pressure to be as hard as a diamond. Even with a precise strike a Fighting-type move can't dent it (only a metal tool can piece it now) and its smoother surface makes Grass moves harder to latch on and Water moves slip off (though still susceptible to being buried and crushed by the ground). In addition the extra hardness now allows it to effectively injure blocking Fighting- and dent Steel-types.
  
  
• Janka Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user is Grass-type; User receives neutral damage from Bug, Flying, & Ice-type moves; User's Grass-type moves are neutral effective against Bug, Poison, Grass, & Dragon-types)
• Thought Process: The Grass-type thickens its outside layer so that its like dense wood (or denser wood). Bug-types can't dig into it, it can withstand the winds of Flying-types, and coats its vulnerable inside from Ice-type (of course nothing is stopping Fire and Poison from doing their thing). The thicker & rougher layer also gives it Moves an extra oomph which crush Bug-types, isn't affected by Poison-types defensive secretions, shreds weaker Grass-types, and even makes Dragon-types take a step back.

Yes, another "moves that change types" enjoyer!
Soak, Trick-or-Treat, and Burn Up might be gimmicky, but they are fun gimmicks!

You don't like the Ultra Beasts?

What? I do like these Pokémon from other universes!
You can like Ultra Beasts (Celesteela and Kartana FTW), and also ask Game Freak to canonize Missingno. because Missingno. is really different from Ultra Beasts.

• UBs have some of the eighteen known types, normal moves, and look kinda sorta like things you'd see in real life, like mosquitoes, electric cables, or clowns.
• Missingno. and friends meanwhile can have weird types like Bird, weirder glitch moves that screw up the game in funky ways, and look either like a known Kanto Pokémon or like a QR code.

Also stop replying to that guy, at this point it's just trolling

Nooooo, Arkm is just misguided!

I honestly think Let's Go was a very good "re-remake".
[...]
Let's Go being an almost complete reimagination is probably the correct choice if they plan to revive older regions without just "remaking the game".

For an imperfect game made to draw in GO players, LGPE is a decent game.
Interesting starters, being able to catch Pokémon like Bulbasaur or Porygon in the wild Porygon on Route 7 fits the "Gotta Catch 'Em All!" slogan more than playing slot machines for hours, cool rematch teams, and the characters actually got redesigns, darn it BDSP you had one job and that's redressing the characters and finally giving us swimsuit Cynthia!
Also, I really like the more "rounded and small" character design of LGPE. I really do!

hot take we don’t need a Legends Kyurem, Legends is supposed to explore the stories of mythicals not prominent in the original games, and also the Original Dragon is intentionally vague

I'm mixed about the Original Dragon. Mainly because it somehow has zero canon depictions or physical descriptions in any official media despite its mythological importance.
I can't think of a single real-life religion where a major deity has no known physical description. The closest equivalent I can find is the Sampo from the Finnish poem Kalevala, and this thing is exceptionally vague, almost on purpose I would say.
The Original Dragon is based on the Sampo, fight me!

 

[Worldie]

Also, I really like the more "rounded and small" character design of LGPE. I really do!

Tbh there is nothing inherently wrong with chibi design. The "problem" BDSP had was trying to do *both* the chibi and realistic design... it just contrasts super hard...

 

[pika pal]

After seeing all the arguments brought forward, as well as thinking about this myself even before this point, I had come to the conclusion that doing something to the Ice-type (and Rock- and Grass-type) type match-ups or given additional traits is not only not going to help but is controversial. So, I personally believe best thing is just making a new move for each Type that slightly alters their Type Match-ups:

• Crystal Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user if Ice-type; User receives neutral damage from Rock- & Fire-type moves; User's Ice-type moves are neutral effective against Fire- & Water-types)
• Thought Process: The Ice-type hardens its crystal body to a thicker density. This means a thrown rock can no longer shatter it (though a precise karate chop can cause deep enough cracks; and though harder than a rock it's still no match for the strength of steel) and heat takes a lot longer to melt it. Also, with it being colder, Ice moves quicker deplete the heat shield of Fire-types and finally be cold enough to freeze Water-types.
  
  
• Diamond Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user is Rock-type; User becomes neutral to Fighting, Grass, & Water-type moves; User's Rock-type moves are neutral effective against Fighting- and Steel-types)
• Though Process: The Rock-type increases its body pressure to be as hard as a diamond. Even with a precise strike a Fighting-type move can't dent it (only a metal tool can piece it now) and its smoother surface makes Grass moves harder to latch on and Water moves slip off (though still susceptible to being buried and crushed by the ground). In addition the extra hardness now allows it to effectively injure blocking Fighting- and dent Steel-types.
  
  
• Janka Form (Status. Target user. Priority +3. Only works if user is Grass-type; User receives neutral damage from Bug, Flying, & Ice-type moves; User's Grass-type moves are neutral effective against Bug, Poison, Grass, & Dragon-types)
• Thought Process: The Grass-type thickens its outside layer so that its like dense wood (or denser wood). Bug-types can't dig into it, it can withstand the winds of Flying-types, and coats its vulnerable inside from Ice-type (of course nothing is stopping Fire and Poison from doing their thing). The thicker & rougher layer also gives it Moves an extra oomph which crush Bug-types, isn't affected by Poison-types defensive secretions, shreds weaker Grass-types, and even makes Dragon-types take a step back.

While it might not be game-changing, and does require a precious Move Slot, I think for the more defensive Ice, Rock, and Grass-types it could be helpful. I would have maybe gone further with the Type changes (make a neutral a resistance, a resistance an immunity, a resistance a neutral, and maybe in exchange for turning another weakness to a neutral turn a neutral into a weakness), but I think for now this is fine as it doesn't go overboard.

The issue I have with this in particular is that the Pokemon not only gives up a moveslot, but has to give up a turn (or a turn every time it hits the field), neither of which fix the Match-Up very well in PVP where these types' Defensive match-ups are going to matter, because they're too fast paced for this kind of momentum sink even on a defensive Pokemon: In Full Singles like Smogon uses that's a free switch, while in BSS/VGC the game is so fast that one free turn can basically cost you the mon, if not the match.

I feel like to make this work more effectively this would have to be implemented in a manner more akin to items, such that they're always active immediately as the Pokemon hits the field. There's still a trade-off but the Pokemon is able to put these effects to work as soon as it becomes active rather than needing a turn to set-up for what the "better" types already do naturally to prompt these rebalance effects in the first place.

 

[Ransei]

So in ORAS we see that the ancient flower that AZ's Floette bonded with still exists. Being this flower isn't the typical flower which the Flabebe species bonds with, its very difficult to do so and since the only flowers of that species which still exists were likely planted by AZ during his travels, no one knows how to do it anymore.

No one, but AZ.

As thanks for reuniting him with his Eternal Floette, AZ went through the difficult process of bonding another Floette with an Eternal Flower he had planted somewhere long ago and presents it to the player. They could then have AZ note this Eternal Floette isn't as powerful as his, afterall his Floette was brought back to life by the Ultimate Weapon so who knows how Legendary powerful it is. But the Eternal Flower its bonded with has given it a power boost making it stronger than a normal Floette, also it can't evolve to a Florges as it's not the proper flower. Still, in the end you still get a brand new Eternal Floette, a gift from AZ for reuniting this his.

"Why would AZ know how to do it"? It's a handwave, alright? Also he had 3000 years, I wouldn't be surprised if during the first few hundred the loneliness reached a peak and he decided to try and create another Eternal Floette to help with his loneliness... which after many trials and errors is finally able to do but the Eternal Floette couldn't fill the void in his heart that the one his mother gave him could (it could also explain why there would be patches of Eternal Flowers around, AZ would need to have them to experiment so, likely having a few seeds, found suitable places to grow them around the world).

This is a very neat idea and there is potential for it in future games imo, but I have one concern. It's about the dex entry they gave Eternal Floette in Ultra Sun.

"The flower it's holding can no longer be found blooming anywhere. It's also thought to contain terrifying power."

This implies the specific type of flower that we saw present in ORAS is now dead. We don't really know for sure if Alola knew anything about it though. Maybe that one is still present and they just weren't aware.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

This is a very neat idea and there is potential for it in future games imo, but I have one concern. It's about the dex entry they gave Eternal Floette in Ultra Sun.

"The flower it's holding can no longer be found blooming anywhere. It's also thought to contain terrifying power."

This implies the specific type of flower that we saw present in ORAS is now dead. We don't really know for sure if Alola knew anything about it though. Maybe that one is still present and they just weren't aware.

Eh, Pokemon contradicts this sort of lore all the time. "This Pokemon can only be found in this one region! [species] is the only one of its kind in existence! [species] is the weakest Pokemon yet discovered! Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon!" I'm sure, if they were minded to, they could say that someone found the last known flower of this kind and has been growing it in secret somewhere.

 

[Nitro Indigo]

I've noticed that in interviews, Game Freak members (as well as other developers associated with Nintendo) tend to use vague wording when explaining the rules of their games' settings, like "we don't think..." or "we're not sure if..." I don't know if it's a Japanese cultural thing, but I assume they keep things vague so nothing can come back to bite them if they change their minds.

 

[KalosianPorygon]

Eh, Pokemon contradicts this sort of lore all the time. "This Pokemon can only be found in this one region! [species] is the only one of its kind in existence! [species] is the weakest Pokemon yet discovered! Mew is the ancestor of all Pokemon!" I'm sure, if they were minded to, they could say that someone found the last known flower of this kind and has been growing it in secret somewhere.

This can happen in the same games.
For example, Goomy was described as the weakest Dragon-type Pokémon when Noibat exists.

 

[Pikachu315111]

You can like Ultra Beasts (Celesteela and Kartana FTW), and also ask Game Freak to canonize Missingno. because Missingno. is really different from Ultra Beasts.

It's a joke.

Tbh there is nothing inherently wrong with chibi design. The "problem" BDSP had was trying to do *both* the chibi and realistic design... it just contrasts super hard...

No, BDSP's problem wasn't it tried doing both but rather it tried to make the super deformed sprites into 3D models. Let's Go (and arguably Gen VI) models are chibi, the models in BDSP were taking sprites that weren't meant to be seen in anyway except overhead & pulled out. And this shown in cutscenes where they tried their best to make the cutscene more dynamic with different camera angles and giving the models expressions but the super deformed style really made any serious moment silly. Let's Go and Gen VI's model were chibi enough so that they could be used in cutscenes but not take away from the tone of the scene (besides I don't think even with proper proportions anything could save Lysandre in his Dr. Octopus cosplay).

I feel like to make this work more effectively this would have to be implemented in a manner more akin to items, such that they're always active immediately as the Pokemon hits the field.

Hm, an Item could work.

It's about the dex entry they gave Eternal Floette in Ultra Sun.

"The flower it's holding can no longer be found blooming anywhere. It's also thought to contain terrifying power."

This implies the specific type of flower that we saw present in ORAS is now dead. We don't really know for sure if Alola knew anything about it though. Maybe that one is still present and they just weren't aware.

It just means the in-world scientist or whoever wrote the entry doesn't know. Or, they're "technically" right, as in the ancient flower isn't normally blooming anywhere but there could be seeds stored somewhere that just need to be planted in the right environment to make a new flower. Or we could be more literal with the term "bloom"; yes, no more are blooming, but there are still some which exist cause they have a long life span (which itself could be a reason why it rarely bloom new ones and essentially went extinct).

For example, Goomy was described as the weakest Dragon-type Pokémon when Noibat exists.

Maybe by weakest they meant softest?