Contradictory statement since trace triggers on switch in.I'd actually say that if Wobbuffet gets popular, Porygon2 and Gardevoir usage is going to skyrocket, making them possible OU candidates, since they're the only ones with the natural ability to switch out of Wobbuffet without having to take up one of their moveslots to do so.
Trace gets the Shadow Tag, and two Shadow Tag pokemon can switch out of each other, therefore giving them that ability to switch freely. Both can give Wobbuffet statuse that it hates ever so much as well. I know that they can't switch in, but at least there's something that doesn't have to sacrifice a moveslot to escape.
anyway, a handful of you may remember that it was me who started the 7-page thread about wobbuffet some 2½ years ago, so my stance may not be that hard to figure out. one thing i will say though is that the "boring" or "fun" argument have such little place in competitive pokemon that it's pointless to bring them up, so please dont
You people who consider Wobbuffet UBER need to present a better argument that just isn't "it's UBER so leave it be" or "it's strong". A sentence is not a solid argument, think of this as a debate if you please. I've gotten so sick of people just giving their two cents that this poke is bad and leave it be without explaining "why?" in a detailed form. The people who argue that Wobbuffet in unstoppable in a sense must think this pokemon has infinite HP do ya?
Jumpman at least offered an old thread about the debate with some reasons, but some of his key points to allow testing of Wobbuffet no longer apply to the D/P metagame. Magnaton + Dugtrio as a trapper isn't really effective this generation due to the appearance of Cresselia who is competing with Skarm, and Encore lasts 4+ turns now making Wobbuffet significantly more powerful (Jump had an argument that said Encore wasn't effective against Cursers... 4+ Curses is certainly a bad thing).
Don't forget about Cosmic Power, those are awesome boosts to have Encored as well.
About the Magneton(zone) + Dugtrio trapping combo, it's still great. Cresselia is sure as hell not going to be able to take repeated Thunderbolts, especially when Magnezone resists pretty much everything Cressy does. If Magneton didn't evolve, I might agree with you, but Magnezone is just so much better and it can bust Cresselia in more ways than one.
Anyway, the same argument has always been used for Wobbuffet's Uber status. It is by definition, uncounterable. Nothing can switch in on a Wobbuffet. The few times that a counter does appear (a surprise Shed Shell...), Wobbuffet can always switch out with exception of Toxic Dugtrio. Even then... should Toxic Spikes be on the field, Toxic Dugtrio dies before Wobbuffet, and Toxic Dugtrio is needless to say much less effective than CB Dugtrio...
What does Wobbuffet do if he just switched into something that has a sleep move? If Wobbuffet gets put to sleep, he's seriously in a lot of trouble. I'd say that it's a lot worse for Wobby to get put to sleep than be Toxiced.
You're missing the point. Unlike SkarmBliss, the CressBliss user can simply switch to Blissey to wall Magneton. Cresselia isn't trapped by Magnezone, so who cares if Magnezone can wall everything Cress does?"Bologo said:About the Magneton(zone) + Dugtrio trapping combo, it's still great. Cresselia is sure as hell not going to be able to take repeated Thunderbolts, especially when Magnezone resists pretty much everything Cressy does. If Magneton didn't evolve, I might agree with you, but Magnezone is just so much better and it can bust Cresselia in more ways than one.
Wouldn't any damaging status mark the end of Wobbles? Toxic Dugtrio, sure, but if it switches in on anything with WoW, Toxic, or anything that inflicts burn/poison, he's going to be taking damage. Sandstorm would counteract leftovers, and Ttar is painfully common. I realize that the reason Dugtrio is the best counter is because of arena trap, but if you can force it to switch out because of negative status (either damage or inability to counter/encore via Sleep/Freeze) then you're back to facing a normal counter for your pokemon. This now severely limits what Wobbles can safely switch in on without being forced to bring out something with Heal Bell/Aromatherapy.
I'd hardly call that over-centralization, since most teams have at least 1 statuser on them, and many have 2 or more. Now, instead of having one dedicated statuser, you split the job up.
A team I made for a laugh, called "Team Status," works awesomely against Wobbles. Spore Breloom, Guts'd/U-turning Swellow, Guts'd-Heracross, Toxic Spikes Tentacruel, Yawning Jolteon, and T-wave Clefable. Now, if any of these guys, except Clefable, come up against Wobbles, they can status him and send him running back to Blissey/Celebi.
[/b]You're missing the point. Unlike SkarmBliss, the CressBliss user can simply switch to Blissey to wall Magneton. Cresselia isn't trapped by Magnezone, so who cares if Magnezone can wall everything Cress does?
If it Explodes, you don't need a DugZone or whatever it's called, because there's no point to Dugtrio now.You do realize that Blissey's nowhere near safe against Magnezone right? Metal Sound messes up Blissey really badly, and Magnezone can still just explode.
I think you ought to consider sets and items in this case. Technically any pokemon can deal with wobbuffet, just throw on toxic. But I would expect a huge shift in the game away from choice items and toward shed shells. I would definitely consider that centralisation that might not be evident from your method here.In essence, this is the best way to find out if Wobbuffet is broken. At the end of feburary, we can compare the total number of pokemon whose cumulative usage percents add up to X% to the number that did the month before (and I plan to do this this month for Deoxys-e). If we find the number to have decreased, and we find Wobbuffet to be common himself, we have hard statistical evidence that Wobbuffet is creating centralisation. On the other hand, if we find the number to have changed negligibly, or increased, or if Wobbuffet is not common himself, we know that Wobbuffet has unaffected or diversified the metagame. (As I said I also plan to do this analysis to help to decide whether to leave Deoxys-e banned.) These sort of statistical tests can just not be done in a tournament because there is no before and after to compare. (You could compare to the last month of statistics, but this would be less than ideal because the tournament does not reflect the actual state of the metagame anyway, since a new pokemon has just been introduced.)
I dont mean to be a dick, but who? I mean Obi also thinks Kyogre might not be broken.. That is just his philosophy toward tiers. I dont know for certain this is who you mean but it would be a little unfair to present his views as evidence of exaggeration of Wobbuffets ability.The main role of the tournament in the case of Deoxys-e was to establish whether there was a chance he might not be broken. In the case of Wobbuffet, many top players (some of whom have been testing Wobbuffet) already agree that it might not be broken, which is good enough for a full scale test.
Not being in the top 20 could just mean people think it's gay and are not using it out of courtesy. I know I'm not going to use Wobbuffet, just on principle.It's quite easy. We unban Wobbuffet now, and we could see if it's used or not, or if it is too strong. We won't find new sets for Wobbuffet, but other pokemons can find a good set to counter him. Test him in February, and if we see that it isn't in the top 20, we could let it be in OU, the same as Deoxys-E, it's 44 in usage, although in half month, but with less usage nowadays.
Unban in this month, and we will have a real proof about him.
If I'm locked into EQ and you bring in Zard to Drum on my switch, shame on me if I have nothing that either outspeeds Zard or can take a hit.
If I'm locked into [insert stat-up move here], and you bring in Smeargle, sporing on the switch. Shame on me if I don't have something that can either absorb sleep, outspeed your sweeper, or take a hit from said sweeper.
Because my CB[Mon] uses EQ and you switch in BellyZard, case 1 applies without need for Wobb. If CB[Mon] uses Shadow Ball, then Smeargle comes in free. Wobb isn't the only way to get free switch-ins, he just makes it much easier, at the price of 1 less Pokemon that is an offensive threat.
I dont mean to be a dick, but who? [...] I dont know for certain this is who you mean but it would be a little unfair to present his views as evidence of exaggeration of Wobbuffets ability.
Hipmonlee said:I think you ought to consider sets and items in this case. Technically any pokemon can deal with wobbuffet, just throw on toxic. But I would expect a huge shift in the game away from choice items and toward shed shells. I would definitely consider that centralisation that might not be evident from your method here.
RAWRzilla: So you enjoy being a general, all around (BAN ME PLEASE), yes
tmt: are you kidding me?
RAWRzilla: Not at all
RAWRzilla: Wobbuffet in a ladder match
RAWRzilla: He's ub YES?
tmt: hahaha
tmt: if he's uber, how can I use him in a ladder match?
RAWRzilla: Not sure at all. Last I checked, he was classified uber
I've been playing a few matches with it, and Wobbuffet has to be one of the best Smeargle or Breloom set up pokemon out there. I've also gotten quite a few fun comments, like the following.
That was not the first, nor the last comment I've recieved tonight.