Luvdisc is cute. Change my mind.
You think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evo because of powercreep; I think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evolution because it's ugly as sin and should have never been acknowledged again. We are not the same.Duraludon is literally the last thing that should have gotten an evolution. It is just blatant power creeping.
If going by the Pseudo-Legendary Moniker I agree, but not sure how you can argue it out of "the 600 Club" when it fits the only criteria in the name.You think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evo because of powercreep; I think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evolution because it's ugly as sin and should have never been acknowledged again. We are not the same.
On the topic of Archaludon: I have no doubt that this is a dumb and pointless argument about semantics that will never die for as long as the series runs, but imo it should not count as a pseudo-legendary/ a member of the 600 Club for one simple reason: it's a 2-stage evolution line. I'm willing to accept Duraludon as a middle evolution even if it would still be obscenely strong by pseudo middle evo standards, but the lack of a crappy first evo pretty firmly disqualifies it in my eyes. The training arc inherent to pseudos is entirely absent; all it has to claim the title is a Dragon typing and a base stat total.
I'm not super familiar with the JP side of things, but my understanding is that they use the descriptor 600 Club to describe the same 'mons we do as pseudo-legendaries. Hence, Mythicals or a handful of Legendaries like Zygarde and Landorus are not considered part of the 600 Club. If I'm incorrect on this, please correct me!If going by the Pseudo-Legendary Moniker I agree, but not sure how you can argue it out of "the 600 Club" when it fits the only criteria in the name.
MY PSIONIC WARRIORS... GET THIS GOOFSTERYou think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evo because of powercreep; I think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evolution because it's ugly as sin and should have never been acknowledged again. We are not the same.
Whereas I think it shouldn't have gotten an evo because GF had to create YET ANOTHER evolution-inducing item to apply to it instead of just using a Thunder Stone again.You think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evo because of powercreep; I think Duraludon shouldn't have received an evolution because it's ugly as sin and should have never been acknowledged again. We are not the same.
It's not an Electric type nor does it have anything to magnetism, why would it use the Thunder Stone? Metal Coat maybe, but not Thunder Stone.Whereas I think it shouldn't have gotten an evo because GF had to create YET ANOTHER evolution-inducing item to apply to it instead of just using a Thunder Stone again.
Bulbapedia does not. Bulbapedia lists it as a Pokémon commonly mistaken for a pseudo that is not.According to Bulbapedia and whatever Japanese wiki they're associated with, the Japanese community does actually consider Archaludon part of the 600 club.
I also feel it's worth noting that pseudo-legends have a history of being the ace of or at least used by either the final Elite 4 member or champion of their respective region, with the only exceptions being Kommo-o (final Totem in Sun and Moon) Hydreigon kind of (still ace of final boss Ghetsis even if he's not technically the champion, also used by champion Iris in BW2) and Tyranitar (who got fucked by champion Lance's three Dragonites and didn't make the cut for final Elite 4 Karen's team for some reason).
With Drayton being the strongest of the Blueberry Elite 4 and Archaludon being his ace, it really seems like they're treating it as if it were a pseudo-legend.
"According to Bulbapedia and whatever Japanese wiki they're associated with, the Japanese community does actually consider Archaludon part of the 600 club."Bulbapedia does not. Bulbapedia lists it as a Pokémon commonly mistaken for a pseudo that is not.
The rest of the page disagrees, the lists do not include it and it is explicitly stated to not be further down."According to Bulbapedia and whatever Japanese wiki they're associated with, the Japanese community does actually consider Archaludon part of the 600 club."
View attachment 585922
Where do you think I got the link to that Japanese wiki
They may have referenced that wiki to show that some segment of the Japanese playerbase thinks that, but Bulbapedia itself doesn't agree.Bulbapedia said:Among Pokémon commonly mistaken for pseudo-legendary Pokémon are Slaking, Flygon, Aggron, Volcarona, Haxorus, and Archaludon. For one reason or another, these Pokémon do not fit the criteria to be classified as pseudo-legendary Pokémon.
Being a three stage line is literally a specific feature of pseudos. Being single stage is not a required characteristic of Pika-clones, Pikachu itself isn't a single stage line afterall, if anything it makes Pawmi even more cloney.I think archaludon is a pseudo because if a pika clone can have evos (and two of them even) then a pseudo can be a two stage line. theyre doing whatever they want nowadays with these tropes tbh
yeah but its funnier if it is a pseudoBeing a three stage line is literally a specific feature of pseudos. Being single stage is not a required characteristic of Pika-clones, Pikachu itself isn't a single stage line afterall, if anything it makes Pawmi even more cloney.
Also Pseudos are an officially recognized group, Pika-clones are not.
yeah i knowThe rest of the page disagrees, the lists do not include it and it is explicitly stated to not be further down.
They may have referenced that wiki to show that some segment of the Japanese playerbase thinks that, but Bulbapedia itself doesn't agree.
Yeah, I realized what you meant after I posted.yeah i know
that's why i said "bulapedia says the japanese community views it like this"
the claim is "archaludon is a 600 club member in japan"
and the source is bulbapedia
and bulbapedia's source is presumably that other wiki but there's no footnote so maybe not
also reminder that bulbapedia refused to acknowledge convergent evolutions as a thing, so it saying archaludon is or isn't part of a category does not actually mean all that much
the people in charge of bulbapedia are about as out of touch as the people in charge of smogon, which is to say very
Lance used Tyranitar in Pokemon Stadium 2, Kommo-o was used by Ryuki as a champion challenge and by Cynthia in Pokemon Masters and the anime. Even before evolving, Duraludon was used by Raihan, who's said to be strong enough to be champion of another region, but chooses to stay in Galar to rival Leon.According to Bulbapedia and whatever Japanese wiki they're associated with, the Japanese community does actually consider Archaludon part of the 600 club.
I also feel it's worth noting that pseudo-legends have a history of being the ace of or at least used by either the final Elite 4 member or champion of their respective region, with the only exceptions being Kommo-o (final Totem in Sun and Moon) Hydreigon kind of (still ace of final boss Ghetsis even if he's not technically the champion, also used by champion Iris in BW2) and Tyranitar (who got fucked by champion Lance's three Dragonites and didn't make the cut for final Elite 4 Karen's team for some reason).
With Drayton being the strongest of the Blueberry Elite 4 and Archaludon being his ace, it really seems like they're treating it as if it were a pseudo-legend.
Luvdisc is obtained kinda early in XY, and Delibird is obtained early in the Alola games, so looks like the devs agree with you there.Luvdisc and Delibird are cute gimmick 'mons that don't really need anything else; if anything just have them be early game stuff.
Tauros and Miltank should have had a shared calf preevolution. Specially for Paldea purposes; how the fuck do you have different breeds of a male-only species?
This is, by far, the most compelling argument I've seen in favor of pseudo Archaludon lmaoI changed my mind, archaludon is a pseudo because i didnt know how serious people were about pokemon tropes and I think its funny to go "nuh uh"
This is the second-most compelling argument! I think it's a very good point to recognize that archetypes are not set in stone and can evolve over time. Thus, what is integral to an archetype can be rather subjective as a result; personally, I place a lot of emphasis on the three-stage aspect of pseudos, not just because of official labeling but also because of the story it conveys of a weak, unassuming underdog becoming one of the most powerful monsters in the whole game. It's a nice little arc, and in my eyes it's an important part of what makes a pseudo a pseudo - but after almost-30 years, a series has to shake things up, and pseudos are no exception. Reading over what's been talked about in this thread, I had no idea that people considered "being a powerful trainer's ace" as important criteria - and I think that's not only pretty interesting, but also indicative of how people can evaluate the same term so differently.on a more serious note because its a subject thats worth more care than Archaludon Semantics: both pikaclones and pseudos are just character design tropes that repeat, theyre both as official and vague as gamefreak wants them to be.
i dont really care much about the groupings and who becomes official or not as a character designer myself because it feels pointless. sometimes you just follow a character trend and sometimes you dont. sometimes you directly reference your own trends and sometimes you just let it be. it is not a big deal if archaludon is a pseudo and its not a big deal if pichu is a pika clone as much as it doesnt matter if they are