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Chimecho C+ -> Higher
Chimecho is an excellent cleric who deserves to be more well known. It has a variety of useful tools at its disposal including but not limiting to: Wish, Healing Wish, Taunt, Recover, Defog, Heal Bell, Trick Room, and Thunder Wave. it's 75/80/90 defenses aren't the best, but they're still efficient at taking hits. it's ability Levitate is also great when it comes to hazard removal, as it can ignore Spikes and Toxic Spikes while still taking neutral damage from Stealth Rock. Chimecho needs to be looked at more.
Final VR update of 2018, pretty hefty changes. Explanations can be found in respective forum nominations throughout this page, as well as in the voting sheets. However, I'll provide explanations for more divisive Pokemon.
Code:
Rises:
Gourgeist-XL A to A+
Shiftry A- to A
Swanna A- to A+
Leafeon B to B+
Silvally B to B+
Camerupt B- to B
Golem-A B- to B
Swanna has become one of the most influential offensive Pokemon in the tier due to the consistent effectiveness its sets have. Flyinium Z Defog and Z-Rain Dance are both top tier, and Z-Mirror Move can take care of special walls such as Lickilicky. Simply put, its offensive prowess and utility it brings is unparalleled.
Z-Celebrate sets are the primary reason for Leafeon's rise to B+. Leafeon is able to set up on many Pokemon and threatens the majority of the tier with +1 boosts across its stats. Moreover, it can break even better with SD. Needing support for Gourg-XL and Altaria are its main downsides and prevent it from rising further.
Code:
Drops:
Komala S to A+
Floatzel A+ to A
Probopass A to B-
Silvally-Fighting A to A-
Dugtrio-A B+ to B
Granbull B+ to B
Oricorio-Baille B+ to B
Shuckle B+ to B-
Silvally-Dark B+ to B
Purugly B to B-
Huntail B- to C+
Regice B- to C+
Onix C- to UU
Torkoal C to UU
When it started out as an S-rank, Komala asserted itself with its Wish sets. So what ever happened? Well, Choice Band sets were stopped by physically defensive Golem and Gourgeist-XL like a red light (only has Toxic for them and pivoting out), and on the other side of things, the metagame was adapting to Wish sets. Bulk Up WIsh Knock Off no longer puts in the work it did before. BU Wish/CB have to be prepped for it, and while you need to scout its set before checking it comfortably, the faster more hard-hitting type of metagame we're in really pressured Komala.
This nomination is divisive and the lack of an S-rank is bound to spark discussion, so feel free to speak your thoughts in the thread. Please be constructive and civil about it.
Floatzel dropped to reflect its decline in the current metagame. While on paper it is certainly threatening due to its multitude of viable sets, Floatzel is noticeably less effective in practice. This is because Pokemon that are naturally good in the metagame such as Silvally-Water, Scarf Electivire, Gourgeist-XL, Curse Muk, Mareanie, etc give Floatzel a lot of trouble. In theory Floatzel can pack a set to beat any of these checks, but the fact of the matter is each set has its counterplay and what it plays well against. Moreover, this makes Floatzel more difficult to fit onto teams. For these reasons, Floatzel dropped to A.
Probopass dropped to B- from A due to lacking a desirable niche in the current metagame and it being a really awkward pick in the current meta. In a nutshell, CB Golem-A is times better as a trapper, and Probopass gives teams lots of weaknesses/shortcomings for what it brings to the table.
Dugtrio: C+ -> B-/B
This is pretty simple: Dugtrio-Alola left. Because of this, Dugtrio isn't as outclassed anymore, so it should rise to reflect that.
Silvally-Ghost: Ranked at A-
I haven't tried this mon, but I think A- is appropriate based on what I've heard about it. What sets itself apart from other Ghost-types in the tier is that it can run offensive sets, rather than just defensive. And its pretty good at its job as well, with three good sets in Swords Dance (the big one), Special Defog, and even Defensive. I'll expand on this more when I actually try it out, but I think I can leave it at this for now.
Silvally-Ghost
It's never easy to rank new Pokemon and Silvally-Ghost is no exception, so thank god it's the only one this time around. I think most people generally agree that it should be somewhere in A ranks, but where exactly is still very much up to discussion. Now, this is only natural since we've had it for such a short time, and as such I haven't got my opinions set in stone just yet already, but I still wanna talk about what I think of it. At first, I was convinced this would fit nicely in A+ as our new best Silv forme; from my own testing, SD was absolutely incredible as a breaker (SD/Multi/Double-Edge/U-turn) and I heard from other people that both special and defensive were quite solid too, which to me sounded like the versatility I expect from an A+ mon. Unfortunately, from my own personal testing, I am not a fan of special at all, as it simply doesn't get any coverage it really needs. The best options are probably mono SBall (Shadow Ball/Toxic/U-turn/Defog) or SBall BoltBeam, but neither is capable of touching Komala at all, which just is not great at all when this will usually be your only Return immunity. I have yet to try defensive so I won't make any preliminary judgments about it, but right off the bat I'll say that in a lot of cases I'll probably prefer Gourgeist-XL as my defensive Ghost or Silv-Water as my defensive Silv (that's not to say defensive Silv-Ghost doesn't have a niche though).
All in all, I think SD alone is already enough to push this to a preliminary rank of A, but it can go A+ or A- depending on how well its special and defensive sets end up performing.
Some other noms I wanna make too:
Combusken A- -> A
This isn't exactly a direct result of these shifts as none of them are particularly good for chicken little, but I think Combusken has been underrated for a while, which I myself am also guilty of. Its special set is the one I've been using (Fire Blast/Focus Blast/HP Ice/Protect) and it pretty easily breaks through stuff like Bronzor/Gourg/Alt/Komala, which is just really cool. It can run one of two Z-moves, is completely immune to WoW and resists Foul Play giving it an easy switchin to Gourg, and can very quickly get out of hand after a few boosts. In general, I'll offer the advice to be ballsy with your first turn move when using this, since getting a Fire Blast/Focus Blast off onto something that expects a Protect is quite nice. Also, be careful with your Z-Move and figure out what you need it for, if you use it too early you may be fucked, but if you don't you're in a great spot.
Bouffalant B+ -> A-
Another mon I think is underrated but even moreso with all the Silv-Ghosts running around, Bouffalant is a mon I like quite a bit, especially SubToxic. Basically it comes into phys Silv-Ghost fairly freely as it takes about 60% from +2 DE and can proceed to set up a Sub and Toxic it. Now if this were all it did it'd probably be fine in B+, but it also beats out Gourg and Alt in the 1v1 and can function as an effective status spreader, or even a more generally bulky Komala, if without recovery or Spin. I get that it faces a lot of competition from sleepy boi, but this is an actual answer to SD Silv-Ghost and surprisingly effective in general, so I'd like to see it rise.
I think Stunfisk needs a rank. It's bulk is pretty good and I think it has a niche as a lead that can deal with other leads. It's not fantastic, but it soft checks a lot of Pokemon and can spread status like nobodies business. Personally, I'd give it a C+ rank.
Edit: it's already C, but my point still stands. It deals with a lot of Pokemon with its defensive typing and STAB
Voting slate will go up on Saturday. Any nominations made after the voting slate is up will not be included. As such, please make any noms you have as soon as possible.
-Ghost: Placed at A
Silvally-Ghost has lived up to the hype for the most part. In a nutshell, Silv-Ghost is the best offensive Ghost in the tier and also one of the top hazard removers in the tier.
SD is interesting and more nuanced to discuss compared to defensive sets because in theory bulky Normal-types check Silvally-Ghost, but they're usually forced into a trade. This is because Normal-types often cannot 2HKO it back.. For example, +2 Double-Edge will 2HKO or OHKO most Normal-types. Outside of the vacuum though, Silvally-Ghost is fairly easy to wear down and it'll kill itself with recoil, but at that point it's already done its job of breaking walls. Moreover, Ghost STAB + U-turn is fantastic as you hit Bronzor and Gourg-XL for SE damage and are able to pivot out of bad matchups. Ghost coverage is just really good so the meta's best bet is to use different physical walls that can take care of Ghostvally.
Conversely, I've been finding defensive sets to be quite effective in this meta. Being able to Defog on and beat Bronzor is amazing, and it can check other threats such as Pinsir, Combusken, Mr. Mime, Golem, etc. While Ghost STAB is great in this meta, Silvally-Ghost is fairly weak without a boosting option and is forced to pivot frequently. As such, Parting Shot has been more useful than U-turn in my testing. In addition to softening attacks, PShot with enough creep enables it to pivot out on Shiftry. Probably a top 3 Silvally forme alongside Fighting and Water imo.
: B+ to B- or C+
Grumpig hasn't been effective since Altaria and Swanna dropped, since they check Fire- and Fighting-type much more effectively. In addition, Grumpig doesn't check Abomasnow that reliably due to its strong Grass STAB options and hail damage. Moreover, Grumpig is somewhat passive due to its low damage output, and its Speed leaves it susceptible to many of the tier's faster breakers and revenge killers. Influx of Bronzor doesn't help it either. Personally think C+ is more accurate given its niche fits certain builds that need Grumpig's role compression, but most of the time the opportunity cost of running Grumpig is too great.
: B+ to B
Been testing SD Taunt Monferno and it's not too hot in the current meta. Its Speed tier leaves a lot to be desired, and it faces stiff competition from Combusken and Rapidash. In addition, Z-move Monferno is very easy to revenge kill due to its weakness and lackluster bulk. Monferno simply is not on par with B+ and its niche is seldom desired when there are much more effective breakers and sweepers.
: B to B- or C+
Weather is pretty mediocre and inconsistent in this metagame for a variety of reasons. Rain has fallen off due to the amount of Water-types that can put a stop to Swift Swim users, Abomasnow, and walls such as Gourg-XL and Tangela. Tested sun and it's underwhelming as well for its matchup reliant nature. C+ is more reflective of Volbeat's niche as a weather setter imo.
: C+ to B-
Roselia rising to PU frees up Quilladin immensely. Mainly faces competition with Crustle, but it sets itself apart with its valuable defensive utility and support options in Taunt and Roar which prevent Defog and phazing respectively.
: C+ to C
Duosion faces too many hurdles in the current to be effective. Firstly, the popularity of Bronzor is a huge nuisance for it. Secondly, strong wallbreakers are everywhere in the meta and heavily pressure Duosion both physically and specially. Lastly, Duosion faces stiff competition from other slower setup sweepers such as Beheeyem, Muk, and Komala for example. The difference with these setup sweepers is that their defensive utility is that they don't give teams as many holes. For example, even with Eviolite, Duosion's bulk isn't spectacular and teams will usually need secondary checks to Psychic- and Fighting-types.
Metang: B -> B-/C+
I already talked about it a bit in a recent post, but I'm making this into an actual post now. Metang isn't utter trash, but there's seriously nothing it can do that's valuable that Bronzor can't do better. Sure, it can run attacking moves, but its shockingly weak. I don't think its worthy of B anymore.
Kadabra: A- -> B+
This thing just isn't what it used to be. It has decent strength, but its too frail, and now with Ghostvally in the tier, its even harder for it to do its job. Not terrible, but I think A- is a bit high.
252 SpA Kadabra Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Ghost: 144-171 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
Life Orb Kadabra is actually really solid right now, outspeeding base 95 mons and scary threats like Swanna and ohkoing a lot of frail threats like Leafeon, Swanna, Evire with some chip, etc. I actually like this more than Mime right now, and Life Orb functions like Specs would on Mime, except without being locked into one move.
Lapras B to B-
Ampharos C+ to C
Munchlax C+ to C
Murkrow C+ to C
Relicanth C+ to C-
Trevenant C+ to C-
Vullaby C+ to C
Chinchou C to C-
Frillish C to UR
Gogoat C to C-
Illumise C to C-
Krokorok C to UR
Meowstic-F C to UU
Politoed C to C-
Seaking C to UU
Sliggoo C to C-
Wigglytuff C to UR
Fearow C- to UR
Floette C- to UR
Gothitelle C- to UU
Honedge C- to UR
Klang C- to UU
Oranguru C- to UR
Prinplup C- to UR
Togetic C- to UU
Eevee UU to UR
Girafarig UU to UR
Hippopotas UU to UR
Hypno UU to UR
Marshtomp UU to UR
Mudbray UU to UR
Poipole UU to UR
Silvally-Bug UU to UR
Silvally-Flying UU to UR
Torkoal UU to UR
Zweilous UU to UR
I know what you are all probably thinking. These are a lot of nominations, especially to go through at once. However, there is a general consensus amongst the Council to really look at our lower ranks and to flush out all the unviable Pokemon. This is by no means a complete list of what we're going to be voting on, but I hope this post encourages you all to look more thoroughly at the bottom half of our Viability Rankings and see what's actually usable, and that's you too fellow Council members. Starting out with the sole B to B- nomination, Lapras has always been a decent wallbreaker with access to perfect neutral coverage with Hydro Pump + Freeze Dry. However, wallbreakers currently are a dime a dozen and Lapras is incredibly slow, susceptible to all entry hazards, particularly Stealth Rock, has no reliable recovery options, is prediction reliant, and relies heavily on its Choice Specs item to make up for its meager Special Attack stat.
Moving into the C+ nominations, Ampharos is a decent Electric switch-in and can utilize Agility and its high Special Attack to dish out hits. However, its coverage moves are lackluster and doesn't outspeed any relevant Choice Scarf users bar Abomasnow after an Agility boost. Munchlax's viability fluctuates with how important Thick Fat is in the metagame. In previous metagames when Rotom-Frost and Ice Spam was around, Munchlax was incredibly useful. Nowadays it has fallen off a bit, as the only relevant Ice-type really left is Abomasnow, which can utilize Choice Specs Focus Blast or power STAB physical hits such as Wood Hammer to break Munchlax. Without any Curse boosts, it's also pitifully weak. Toxic + EQ sets are also fully walled by Pokemon such as Bronzor and Taunt Oricorio-Pom-Pom. Murkrow hasn't been seen in ages after the faster, stronger, and overall better offensive Flying-type Swanna dropped to ZU. Murkrow is also reliant on utilizing the team's Z Crystal to do anything useful. Relicanth as a Choice Band user is nowhere near as splashable as Golem, wallbreakers again are everywhere, and Damp Rock sets aren't useful outside of Rain HO teams which have died down. Trevenant has found it hard to differentiate itself from Gourgeist now that all sizes are in ZU. From defensive sets to SubSeed sets to Omni-boosting sets, Trevenant has had a really hard time lately. Vullaby has fallen off on Stall teams despite its good bulk and access to reliable recovery due to its poor matchup against opposing Stealth Rock setters, reliance on Eviolite for bulk, and competition with other Defog users.
The C nominations are fairly straight-forward. Chinchou is good at checking Zebstrika and Swanna and just about nothing else, while being incredibly passive and reliant on RestTalk and Eviolite for recovery and bulk. Frillish only fits on stall teams while stacking weaknesses with Pokemon such as Pyukumuku and being a Knock Off weak Pokemon reliant on Eviolite again for bulk. Gogoat takes too long to set fully set up and faces too much competition with Leafeon and Shiftry as setup Grass-types. Even considering access to reliable recovery Swords Dance + Synthesis Leafeon has always been a thing, and Synthesis is an option beginning to be seen on Shiftry too. Illumise doesn't really have much to differentiate itself from Volbeat, and despite being able to run both together on Sun or Rain HO teams, neither one of those archetypes are remotely close to dominant right now. Krokorok hasn't been seen or used really by anyone as far as I am aware for the last several several several metagames and doesn't have too much besides Intimidate and Knock Off to stand out really. Meowstic-Female is extremely frail hazard removing deterrent even when compared to Pawniard and Purugly. It's coverage moves are also lackluster and it's fairly weak without a Competitive boost. Politoed has been a passive Water-type check for some time now. Other, better Water-types checks such as Silvally-Water has access to Thunderbolt (which can also nail Politoed) while Swanna and Floatzel have access to Z-Moves to bypass Politoed. Seaking is irrelevant in a metagame without Rotom-Frost, only really checking Zebstrika anymore. Sliggoo as a specially defensive Dragon-type has fallen off after Altaria's rearrival, lacking any recovery options outside of Rest. Wigglytuff is another terrible hazard remover deterrent Pokemon that has little to offer other than Stealth Rock, which isn't enough of a niche to warrant using ever.
Into the C-'s. Fearow faces fierce competition from Swanna as a fast offensive Flying-type now, its best Flying STAB move is Drill Peck (good lord) and Ground coverage in Drill Run is not unique or relevant enough to save it. Floette is a much worse Wish passer than Lickilicky and is Knock Off bait. Floette also doesn't have access to Psywave, Seismic Toss, Night Shade, or any other variant of a fixed damage output move. Gothitelle as another entry hazard deterrent Pokemon is bulkier than Meowstic-Female but is also slower, and both should probably be at the same rank. Honedge has a plethora of resistances and immunities, but it's incredibly weak without a Swords Dance boost, is weak to Knock Off as an Eviolite user, and can just easily be played around. Klang is another one of just a handful of Steel-types ZU has to offer and get access to Shift Gear, although its coverage options are pitiful and it takes several Shift Gear boosts to get it going. Oranguru doesn't differentiate itself enough from other Psychic-types to be relevant. It can set Psychic Terrain, but that archetype is even less commonly seen than Sun or Rain. Prinplup sets up Stealth Rock and then Defogs them away. Togetic is one of a few Fairy-types in the tier and has access to reliable recovery but is in nearly the exact same boat as Vullaby without access to STAB Foul Play or U-turn.
Lastly, we're wanting to look at our Usually Useless section. Eevee is extremely frail, requires an immense amount of team support, and uses up the team's Z-Move. It's just too much of a hassle to warrant using, which is why no one has seen Eevee for a long time. Girafarig is like Oranguru and doesn't have enough of a niche to stand out from all the better Psychic-types such as Mr. Mime and Beheeyem. Hippopotas should be unranked because Sand Offense hasn't been remotely viable since Stoutland was suspect tested and banned, and now we have even lost Alolan Dugtrio. Not worth utilizing at all. Z-Hypnosis Belly Drum Hypno is an extremely shaky sweeper, as it relies on a 60% accurate Z-Move (keep in mind this is your team's Z-Move) to incapacitate a foe. At +1 Hypno is also outspeed by nearly every single Choice Scarf user. Defensive sets are not enough to warrant its current rank either. Marshtomp and Mudbray may be able to pose as some defensive threat by virtue of their typing and access to Stealth Rock and Toxic, but they are incredibly easy to break through. Poipole is a horrendous "setup sweeper" that relies on getting a Nasty Plot boost before being able to do absolutely anything. It also uses up the team's Z-Move. Poipole can't even guarantee OHKO Offensive Tangela with Sludge Wave. 252 SpA Poipole Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 288-342 (86.2 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO. Silvally-Bug and Silvally-Flying are prime examples of breaking this mentality previously seen amongst the ZU community that all Silvally formes have to be good. No, they don't, and these two prove it. They are weak to Stealth Rock, have no niche other Silvally formes can't pull off, and teambuilding wise are hard to utilize in combination with hazard control without stacking weaknesses. Torkoal was recently dropped but needs to be unranked completely as it is a complete momentum drain, is weak to the entry hazards it's trying to remove, and Shell Smash sets aren't saving it. Lastly, there are better, more reliable wallbreakers than Choice Band Hustle Zweilous and better, more reliable phazers than Spe Def Zweilous.
Goodness that was a lot to go through. Anyways, as stated before this isn't an extensive list of all the lower-ranked Pokemon we as Council are going to be going through and voting upon. Unranking what needs to be unranked is only just the first step at improving our Viability Rankings and making them more representative of the current metagame. We have well over 30 nominations here, so if you have any questions, comments, criticisms, concerns, or would like a better understand on why these Pokemon are being brought up, feel free to reply or hit up one of the Council members on Discord or PS!.
(Grass) B- -> C+: Silvally-Grass doesn't really do much in the current metagame to differentiate itself from other other Silvally-Forms. It fails to perform reliably as a defogger because it suffers from 4MSS syndrome with Flamethrower to hit Bronzor and other Steel-types and Ice Beam to hit Altaria. Additionally, Silvally-Grass struggles with a variety of threats in the metagame such as Simisear and Swanna. Aside from its movepool options such as Defog and Parting Shot, Silvally-Grass is mostly outclassed as bulky Grass-type by Gourgeist who has a better defensive typing, Tangela who has access to Regenerator, and Servine who can stallbreak and also has access to Defog, all of which have access to reliable recovery
C+ -> C: The myriad of bulky water types, such as Silvally-Water, limit Basuclin's ability to break. Basculin also heavily competes with Floatzel and Swanna as offensive Water-types, the former of which has access to moves such as Taunt and Switcheroo and the latter of which has a secondary Flying-typing.
Monferno : Keep it B+
Try Slack Off Monferno, it's at the moment the best set (with SD, SR or U-turn in last move). What Monferno gives, it's an ability to switch easily on the board during all the battle, without being worried about the damages you received and without losing the offensive momentum. Neither Rapidash nor Combusken like long battles where you have to switch a lot and both struggle to switch repeatedly into Gourgeist-Super / Bronzor, they are not effective check to Shiftry or soft switch in to Blizzard of Abomasnow. The difference between them is that Monferno brings in one slot a support at the same time offensive and defensive, which makes teams better build.
Relicanth : Keep it C+, it's even B- worthy.
It's such a pain to face, Head Smash Stone Plate/Z-Move after SR 2HKO 90% of the tier, even Gourgeist-Super and Mareanie cannot switch into. Moreover, it's a good Stealth Rock setter due to that because you force so much switchs that you dont usually have with golem. Its wallbreaking support is so enjoyable at the moment where you have to threat bulky builds. Unlike Rampardos, it gets an excellent bulk which allows to benefict fully of its resists, especially the normal and the flying one.
About the other noms, i will do a quick review. Silvally-Ghost deserves the A- in my opinion, it's a good Vally which benefits of a good offensive and defensive type, i dont see it higher because the SD set lacks of power in general (common to other Vally) and be weak to Koff to a Vally is unfortunate even if the ghost type helps against spinners. I agree with all the Xayah's nominations, same for the 5gen's one except Monferno, and Grumpig whose the C+ looks very strict especially with the lack of psychic resists in a good amount of teams. I'm not totally sure about a drop of Duosion either, it's always dangerous to face. I globally agree with the Aaron's nominations except for Relicanth and Oranguru which should stay ranked for the same reason than Grumpig shouldn't drop C+. Agree with BloodAce about Silvally-Grass, I dont have an opinion about basculin. About what Jdrdms has proposed, Dugtrio isn't very good and i dont see it rises at the moment, I globally agree with Kadabra drop because even if it is an offensive psychic type, the A- Rank is overranked for a mon not splashable and which hates switching. Metang should stay where it is.
My nominations
Sawsbuck B+ -> B
Sawsbuck is not bad but less effective than our two other fast grass types (aka Shiftry and Leafeon). Its best set, the SD one, is one dimensionnal. The problem is not only that this kind of set is quite easy to get rid nowadays with Swanna or whatever scarfer, it's also the fact than except set upping, it brings nothing. Shiftry is globally a better set up sweeper thanks to its priority and the huge damages it inflicts with a Stab Knock Off, one of the best move in the game. Leafeon brings as well Knock Off, a Z-Celebrate set to outspeed faster mons but it is also generally bulkier and can be used with few sets as ground resists. Beside that, Sawsbuck can count only of its sweeping ability and cost even the Z-move slot to the team to be able to get rid of Gourgeist-Super with Z-Bounce. That's why I feel Sawsbuck is generally a weaker choice more difficult to support than our two mains Grass type. Since Leafeon is B+ currently, I think our VR should reflect that and Sawsbuck must drop a rank below.
Armaldo B- -> C+
Even in rain it is not so effective. It relies too much on its Z-Stone Edge stab to do damages but with golem and the hype of golem-Alola, more teams than in the past are careful of the rock resists. Armaldo is also one of the abusers which abuses the less of the weather. I would rather use Relicanth nowadays which beneficts far more of the playstyle and is an overall better SR setter because it forces the switch (what Armaldo rarely does) and can set up the Rain itself. I'm not even sure if Rain is so strong at the moment, there are so much resists/immunities to water and electric moves, priorities on certain mons and overall good antirain mons such as Abomasnow/electivire scarf that I find the archetype not so powerful.
Golduck B- -> C+
See just above about the problem of the rain. Golduck isn't anymore mandatory either in rain since Floatzel can play this role. Golduck is more a mon with an interesting but specific niche than one of the good viable mons with few flaws that represents the B rank. Swoobat, Regigigas, Mawile are in B-, Golduck is globally a bit less effective in the meta than these three other mons.
Missdreavus B- -> C+
Now Silvally-Ghost has dropped here, Webs team can switch Missy to Vally. Its Will-o-Wisp set doesnt do anything impressive currently and is globally a stallbreaker suboptimal, NP Missy doesnt hit hard enough to really threat a team, it takes only a lot of time to die.
Glaceon C+ -> C
It's exploitable too easily for the C+. The frequency of water types becomes too important to justify its use in main set up sweeper. The numerous of scarfers is also an issue considering how slow it is. The cost of the Z-Move is also something to take into account. I've personnally never seen the Z-Celebrate set work against a normal build. The specs set isn't as uneffective but we have too much wallbreakers to justify it so high. Bibarel, Lycanroc-Midnight Cacturne and Jumpluff are C+, Glacen should be below them.
Silvally-Rock C- -> Unranked
Its last niche was to be a Vally with a normal resist, now that we have Vally-Ghost I dont see any reason to keep it ranked. Its offensive set is largely outclassed by Lycanroc-Midnight which is far more dangerous with the EdgeQuake and the deadly Z-move. I know some people would argue that all Vally should be ranked but this one doesnt have any niche.
After cleaning the lower rank, I feel the VR will be pretty accurate about what is viable or not in this meta. Probably one of the best stage (due also to the meta stable) !
Ok so we got Silvally-spook and i wanted to discuss how does it affect the viability of some of our other Silvally forms.
Silvally-Normal - Better - I'd suggest a rise to A-
This got much better, being a Ghost-immunity that can usually check Silvally-Ghost's SD set and doesnt fear anything but Toxic from Special Defogger sets is very good rn. It also usually runs Shadow Claw/Crunch in physical sets to get past Bronzor and Gourgeist-XL, so it can also hit it super effectively. Also the fact that we have a good offensive Ghost type in the metagame make the aforementioned Gourgeist-XL and Bronzor a lot more pressured. I'd also like to notably mention the Z-Heal Block set, which can also run Shadow Ball and bop Silv-Ghost.
Silvally-Rock - Useless - Unranked imo too, I agree with Union
This is now the worst of all Silvally forms since it lost its only niche of being a Silvally form with a normal resist, SD sets are usually outclassed by Lycanroc since it has Ground coverage, a strong Z-move and access to Sucker Punch, and mixed/special sets are better used by other forms since Rock is a bad defensive typing in a whole and it lacks a good special STAB move.
Silvally-Fire - Worse - C- or UU
With Roselia leaving the tier and Silvally-Ghost having STAB Shadow Ball to hit Bronzor, arguably using special sets better than Silvally-Fire in a whole, this mon lost one of its only niches of being able to pressure defensive cores formed with these 2 mons. The SD set isnt much better due to lack of coverage and being a SR weak Silvally form isn't very good so it doesnt succeed as a Defogger. Its only niche left is being the best Silvally form to check Abomasnow atm, but that isn't much to justify its use except in teams severely weak to Aboma.
Silvally-Dark - Mixed bag - Not sure on this one
This seems at first glance like a good check to Silv-Ghost, but since the SD set is the most common one atm it doesnt like to eat a +2 U-turn and goes into 50/50s of clicking Pursuit or Multi-Attack vs it bc it can potentially lose to Double-Edge otherwise, so it will most likely at better be a trade between both Silv-forms. It can somewhat reliably Trap Special sets though, so we need to see which set will become more common in the end for an input on Silv-Dark.
Silvally-Fighting - A bit worse - I'd move it to B+ personally
Silvally-Ghost just does its job better as a SD attacker, and it usually doesnt run coverage like Shadow Claw or Crunch in defogger sets since it doesnt do much to Gourgeist, so defogger sets will likely have a 4MSS rn with Toxic, Multi-Attack, Ice Beam, Defog, Crunch, U-turn/Pshot, otherwise this mon will struggle to actually do some consistent damage to Silv-Ghost.
Silvally-Ice - A bit worse (not like it was ever good JdRDMS ) - UU
Silvally-Ice really faces competition from Silvally-Ghost as a SD attacker since it can also pressure Gourgeist-XL, and special sets have never been that great due to Silv-Fire/Elec/Water usually overperforming it. So this seems like another one kinda hard to justify in any team atm unless you really wanna OHKO altaria. But like Silv-Fire, being a SR weak Silvally-Form has never really been great overall, especially for Silv-Icer which lacks useful resists and is even easier to chip than its Fire counterpart.
Those are my thoughts about it atm, I think Silvally-Water, Dragon, Ground and Poison's viability remaing unchanged at least so far, since they do different things than Silv-Ghost. Any feedback is welcome :)
January's VR slate is complete and the changes are out. Reasonings can be found on the slate or in forum noms.
to A
Silvally-Ghost was a highly anticipated drop in the recent tier shifts and it has quickly cemented itself as one of the top Silvally formes. Ghost typing gives this forme a higher degree of defensive utility compared to most other Silvally types and it is also one of the few offensive Ghosts in the tier. However, Silvally-Ghost does have numerous flaws such as its vulnerability to chip (i.e reliance on Double-Edge on SD sets), is not difficult to wall, and is weak to common Dark-type coverage.
C+ to B-
A- to A
B+ to A-
C+ to B-
B+ to B
B+ to B-
B to B-
B to C+
B- to C+
B- to C+
B- to C+
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to C
C+ to C
C to C-
C to C-
C to UU
C to UR
C to UU
C to UU
C to UU
C to C-
C to UR
C- to UR
C- to UR
C- to UU
C- to UR
C- to UR (Durza broke the tie)
C- to UR (Durza broke the tie)
C- to UR
C- to UU
Rock C- to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
UU to UR
C ranks and below got an overhaul. Can thank Aaronboyer for the big shakeup. In all seriousness though, council is going to be looking at the lower ranks with more scrutiny. The aim is to provide an accurate depiction of what the C ranks and below should be, mainly just being niche Pokemon that have inherent flaws but their niche is worth using in the metagame and are viable despite the competition they may or may not face. For example, for the longest time all Silvally formes were ranked, but in reality certain types such as Bug, Flying, and Rock just have too much opportunity cost, are outclassed, and/or do not have a niche worth using. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments.
time to make some other noms that arent silvallys :)
A+ -> A
I always thought Bronzor wasnt really on par with other A+ mons, due to it being completely predictable and easy to take advantage of, although being very good at its job. But now we have a few new metagame trends that really hurts Bronzor's viability, such as Wish Komala, Trapper Band Alolan-Golem, Shiftry and Silvally-Ghost gaining popularity, making it hard for Bronzor to keep rocks on the field throughout the match. It's still a great mon that checks a wide variety of threats though, just not as good.
A- -> B+
I feel like Chatot has been not on par with the other A ranks in a while, Electivire being the most common scarfer in the tier makes most set-up sets very hard to pull off. Choiced sets now get another Boomburst immunity to deal with in Silvally-Ghost and that's an even more annoying immunity because you don't know the Silvally-form until it comes in, so Chatot is even easier to take advantage of. Add in frail defenses, a weakness to Stealth Rock and stuff like Bouffalant gaining popularity and Chatot definitely struggles to keep up with the rest of the A- ranks.
A -> A+
This thing is just insane right now. With the release of Silvally-Ghost, Silvally-Fighting declined in usage, which was one of Shiftry's best answers overall. With Custap berry being released, lead Golem gained popularity too, and with that Shiftry also gained a boost in the Defogger set, being able to run Bullet Seed to threaten to OHKO Golem despite Sturdy, which is great. Being able to threaten the 2 most common SR setters in the tier (Golem and Bronzor), while also punishing switches with Knock Off and setting up with Swords Dance with very strong coverage with its STAB moves only pushes Shiftry over the edge at the A ranks.
UR -> C-
So this is a fresh new Czim invention and I'd like to recommend everyone to try it. With set up Silvally-forms such as Normal and Ghost gaining popularity recently i wanted to try another option of Parting Shot support when i couldnt use a Silvally-form for that to create new setup opportunities and absorb some hits, and Pancham was surprisingly effective. With max investment and Eviolite Pancham reaches an impressive 367 Defense stat, eating hits from the likes of Shiftry, Kecleon, Silvally-Fighting and Electivire with ease. It also has a few things over Silvally-Fighting, being Mold Breaker to avoid being Soundproofed/Magic bounced (to gurantee the parting shot) and access to Knock Off. Here is the set i've been using and a replay of Pancham helping Huntail and Silvally-Normal set up. It also ate a Rapidash's Inferno Overdrive lol. I'll try to get more cool replays eventually tho.
Yea it does suffer competition as a fighting type that pivots from Mienfoo, Monferno and most notably Silvally-Fighting, but what it has over Mienfoo is obviously Parting Shot to help its partners set up in Hyper Offensive teams, while Mienfoo has Regenerator coupled with U-turn, which would be more appreciated in Balanced teams since it has more longevity. IMO Mienfoo should likely be ranked too, since it's actually a solid pivot and our ladder hero Beacs has used it somewhat consistently for a while, but I think it's better if I nominate one LC Fighting-type at a time lol.
Shiftry A -> A+
SD Shiftry is a nuclear bomb. Thanks to its amazing dual type very good offensively in this tier, Knock Off stab and the priority, nothing or almost can take its hits. It's probably the most punitive mon we have ever had in ZU, basically if the opponent fails to predict the comling of Shiftry, it sets up a SD and it's over. It pressures so much very common core that it becomes ridiculous and you just feel weaponless in being able to do anything against. On paper, there are mons which are not OHKO by Sucker Punch at +2 and can kill Shiftry back, these mons have however a lot of problems which prevent them to be splashable or simply effective enough in the current meta. That lets our ZU Santa Claus often counterless and forces the opponents to play the fifty-fifty with Sucker Punch and to try to stall the life orb if it runs it. Shiftry is in my opinion not far to be broken because it simply lacks of enough viable counters. If that is maybe a bit contreversial, I think nevertheless that everybody could agree on the fact that it is one of the most viable ZU mon in the current meta, one of the most scaring to face and one of the best - if not the best- risk-reward mon at the moment. Shiftry deserves to be higher, A+ is a suitable rank.
Vally-Fighting &
Vally-Dark :
The most common Shiftry answers, especially the fighting one. They are however both less effective than in the past and less splashable as well. They suffer from competition with other defoggers which aren't grounded so no affected by toxic spikes. The fighting stab is also less incredible than beforeoffensively even it stays good, the flying/poison/ghost mons are simply more seen and it makes other Vally form with good coverage options such as Ghost, Water and Dragon more useful offensively. The Dark one is useful only to trap and has struggled since the frosttom departure to find its place back. Fortunately, Vally-Ghost in the tier has made this form a bit more useful but it stays suboptimal compared to other Vally forms.
These two mons are the more commons Shiftry answers since they can u-turn on it. However, they aren't the most reliable one since they dont have recovery. These mons often come on the board to defog or simply to pivot which weaken them quickly.
Monferno &
Mawile :
Defensive Monferno and Mawile are good options against Shiftry because according to the set they run, they can switch and ko it back. In fact, these two mons are so effective now mainly due to Shiftry, they are its most reliable answers which offers good utility outside of checking/countering it. They offer stealth rock, pivot/toxic/a toxic switch in, a correct switch in to some threaten mon such as Blizzard of Abomasnow or Leafeon, they have recovery also (slack off/pain split). The point is that without the ZU Santa Claus, neither Defensive Ferno nor defensive mawile would be so popular currently. They would have different flaws as a lack of general bulk or would be just outclassed in lot of teams by other mons to be spammed as role compresser if Shiftry didnt exist.
Granbull :
I'll start to repeat myself if i'm as long as above mons so lets be shorter. Defensive Granbull isn't a bad mon, it has good type and a good defensive ability but it is still not a splashable Shiftry answer. It lacks of recovery which makes easily weaken without wish support, is suboptimal to counter other threats which makes Gourgeist-Super/Marenie better in 90% of situations and it would be have a lot of reasons to be played if Shiftry didn't exist. However, Shiftry exists and Defensive Granbull is played.
Hakamo-o :
Suboptimal mon in the current meta, doesnt have recovery outside of Drain Punch with a 75 base attack stat, it loses its eviolite in coming on Shiftry and it is once again not a splashable mon you could play in every team.
Avalugg :
Probably the best physical Shiftry answers which doesnt suffer neither for a lack of recovery nor for the loss of the eviolite. Avalugg is unfortunately only effective in really bulky team, generally it is used only in stall. It is thereby not a splashable Shiftry answer and its presence outside of stall is weird and a sign of the ZU Santa Claus.
Vullaby &
Togetic :
Two defoggers which are outclassed by a lot of other mons such as Vally to Defog + Pivot moves or Altaria for the reliable recovery + defog and are often considered bad or unviable. They lose the eviolite on knock off which makes the role of defensive defoggers instantly less effective.
Shiinotic :
Meh mon which lacks of general bulk even with a good type and is outclassed in 90% of teams by Gourgeist-Super. Guess what, it is not splashable either and you dont have much reasons to play it if it is not to deal with Shiftry.
Mareanie A- -> A
Mareanie is good currently. It is obviously multifactorial, the first thing which makes Mareanie so good nowadays is Combusken. It is more common than before due to its ability, like Shiftry, to be a threaten set up sweeper which gets rid of common cores. Mareanie is one of the only mon which is able to wall it (even special if no lo variant). I mention also Z-Me First Pinsir which has always been a good mon but which is a little hyped these days, Mareanie physical defensive at full life can always haze it even without eviolite, which prevents Pinsir to set up as long as mareanie is alive. The third very good set up sweeper that Mare stops is Komala Bulk Up which is simply pp stalled by haze mareanie. Except stopping numerous very dangerous set up sweepers, toxic spikes are a good reason to play mareanie as well. More teams than few weeks ago relie on a grounded defoger to get rid of hazards and put in this way their mons on timer if they face a tspiker. Even when it's not the case, when the Hazard remover isnt affected by tspikes or when there is a poison type in the opponent's team, toxic spikes force the player to directly switch on this hazard remover, which is a situation very comfortable to gain the momentum especially when you have volt-turn.
Mareanie is a Swiss knife currently, it is splashable, playable from stall to bulky offense, and helps to build teams of better quality. A- is not enough to reflect its viability in the meta and that's why it deserves to rise.
Natu C+ -> C/C-
This little green bird has an utility quite limited lately. Shedstall isn't played anymore, it loses to a good amount of SR setters ,against the most common spikes user which is Crustle now than Roselia is gone, Mareanie isn't present enough to justify Natu in a team and Sitcky Webs have fallen in usage. And then... C+ is such a high Rank for what it does lol : Relicanth, Jumpluff, Lycanroc-Midnight, Regice, Ninjask or Vibrava are all C+ and all are without debate far more effective than Natu. It only fits in very very specific builds which aren't representative of how the current meta is. C- is better in my opinion but I agree with a C.
Komala: A+ -> S
Now, in the past, I have said Komala was not S rank worthy, and I have voted against its rise and for its drop, mainly because I didn't think it was effective enough in practice, despite its amazing versatility and splashability. So yes, I know it may be a little weird to see me of all people post for it to go back up (although, maybe not, considering sleepy boi and all), but I really do think something changed for it, and that something is the rise of its Bulk Up set.
Over the last couple of weeks, the specially defensive set with Knock Off / Bulk Up / Wish / Protect has risen to prominence and has easily become its best set. It sets up and beats basically every defensive Pokemon in the metagame, including but not limited to Bronzor, Gourgeist-XL, Altaria, Mareanie, non-Spite Pyukumuku, and Tangela, as well as a few offensive Pokemon, like Silvally-Water and special Silvally-Ghost (though the former is a little dicy sometimes). And once it has set up one or two Bulk Ups, it can be near impossible to stop, thanks to very good bulk on both sides with the Defense boosts. Really, balance's best options are Shiftry, which fails to do it reliably if it has been weakened and Komala has a few boosts, and Combusken, which is gonna need a Z-Move if it is special and a few turns to set up if it is physical and Komala has a few boosts.
Now, honestly, if this were the one set it was using, I'd definitely not be gunning for this to rise again. Because yes, there are a few Pokemon that spell big trouble for it, like Spite Pyukumuku and Shiftry and Combusken, all of which can switch into any of the moves and just begin being a dick. However, out of those three, only Pyukumuku can switch into Return from sets like AV, while even that doesn't switch into Band. The unpredictability combined with this one almost ridiculous set means that, in my opinion, Komala should rise back to S rank. No longer does a Gourgeist-XL mean you're safe against Komala, because Bulk Up will sweep.
There are other mons that I think can be considered for a rise to S, namely Electivire, Gourgeist-XL, and Pinsir, but I'm not as convinced on any of them so no official nom from me at least.
Kadabra: A- -> A
We all know what Focus Sash Kadabra does; it's an emergency button for offense and probably the perfect revenge killer because it basically has a free 'I live'. However, it's not great in this meta centered around defensive cores, mainly because Bronzor is absolutely everywhere and several of our faster attackers can just take a hit can kill it after, most notably Choice Scarf Electivire and Floatzel.
But luckily for Kadabra, another one of its sets has been on the rise massively recently, and I wanna give a shoutout to RawMelon for opening my eyes to this, and that is Life Orb Calm Mind.
Kadabra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Calm Mind
- Signal Beam
With a monstrous 120 SpA and a great 105 Speed, Kadabra has basically no switch-ins. It can practically run through stall on its own because at +1 it just 2HKOes Bronzor and has a chance to do the same to Lickilicky, and it can just set up another one because stall runs no attack Lickilicky. Against balance it can easily come in against a Pokemon like Pinsir or Swanna, bluff a Focus Sash or just a KO, and either set up or grab a kill. Because of Magic Guard it fears nothing from Bronzor other than getting its 'Sash' broken, which is really doesn't care about, so it can just set up a CM and forcibly grab a KO. Offense has less trouble with it if it finds out it isn't Sash, but as long as it doesn't Kadabra is getting a kill basically every time. Of course, it is weak to revenge killing and especially Pursuit trapping, but Bouffalant doesn't run Pursuit too often and Silvally-Dark isn't very common, making it a terrifying wallbreaker to face. Shiftry is a bitch for it, but if it thinks you're Sash you can actually force it out and that's hilarious. Also it becomes a game of 50/50s with Sucker Punch, because Signal Beam murders it and Calm Mind exists.
Shiftry: A -> A+ Agree. This thing is excellent right now. Bronzor: A+ -> A Disagree. It is the best answer to the likes of Mr. Mime and a very solid special blanket check. It's on most balance teams right now and really doesn't care about Silv-Ghost too much. Shiftry is very bad for it, however. Mareanie: A- -> A Disagree. Komala, Shiftry, Electivire, Pinsir, and Kadabra are all very good and threaten Mareanie too much for it to rise. MareTang is fun though. Chatot: A- -> B+ Agree. I think this mon is underrated by some people, but it also doesn't like Bronzor and EVire being everywhere. Natu: C+ -> C/C- Agree. This mon sucks. Pancham: UR -> C-. Disagree. No.
It has been a long time since I made a VR nomination post. So here we go with my mediocre english:
From B+ to A-/A. This is imo the best wallbreaker in the tier right behing Shiftry. There is almost nothing that can switch-into this Pokemon Brave Bird and Flying resists gets bopped by coverage (Golem by Bullet Seed, Oricorio-Pompom by Rock Blast, Bronzor by Knock Off). It also enjoys Gourgeist being the premier physical wall because it just OHKOes it after SR and Probopass dropping in usage.
Just a replay showing Toucannon destroying a stall team during ZU Best Friend: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-827835879
Although the stall had defensive answers to Toucannon in Avalugg and Bronzor, Finch got overwhelmed by Toucannon which as able to break through chipped Avalugg and beat on its own Bronzor.
From B- to C. Webs suck atm because hazard removal is super good. Moreover it's unable to touch Komala which is one of the most popular hazard remover. I don't believe there is any reason to use Smeargle atm over Masquerain or Shuckle.
From B- to B. Rampardos is really strong wallbreaker that imo has been overlooked. In fact I know that a lot of ZU players believe Rampardos is only good under Trick Room, but that's wrong. First Rampardos 58 Speed aren't so good because it gets outsped by slow things like Abo and Choice Band Komala as well as fast Pokemon, however it's faster than Toucannon (because Ramp can afford to run Jolly), Golem and a lot of other slow things. It struggles to switch into the field, but VoltTurn is so easy to fit into a team atm that Ramp generally doesn't have any problem to switch into the field. But you'd probably ask me why would we use Ramp over something else like Toucannon or Shiftry. Rampardos is obviously worse than them, that's why I nominate it for B and not A+, but unlike them there is littelary nothing that can wall Rampardos, you only need Rock Slide, Fire Punch and Ice Beam to 2HKO the whole metagame including bulky stuff like Golem and Pyukumuku. Moreover since Ramp forces a lot of switch, you can easily set a Substitute (it also let's it beat stall) on the switch in and then kill 2 mons.
Replays of Ramp destroying defensive core: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-854497216, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-855803626(Edit: I didn't realize I linked twice the same replay)
From A+ to S. This Pokemon is the most dangerous one in the tier, all its sets are very dangerous and there is nothing in the tier that is safe to switch into this Pokemon until you know its set. Z-Rain Dance completely destroys offense due to its ability to outspeed every scarfer besides Rapidash (which is Dash's worst set), Z-Mirror Move destroys defensive cores, the offensive Defoger set is probably the best offensive Defoger alongside Fight- and Ghostvally and it's one of the best offensive Scarfer with Electivire and Normal-Vally. You can tell me that there are a lot of other A+ rank like Electivire and Pinsir can do the same, but what Swanna over them is first a better Speed Tier letting it outspeed the 95s base Speed and better STAB since nothing (outside of Chinchou) resists both Flying and Water. And last a good defensive utility, since it's able to offensively check Floatzel, one of the biggest threat to offense, has a ground immunity letting it switch into Sandslash and Groundvally as well as predicted Eq from Golem, Komala or Bouff.
From C+ to B. Just like Rampardos, I believe this Pokemon has been overlooked. When I mentioned a possible VR nomination for Pluff to rise, people told me on Discord that Jumpluff is outclassed as a SD user by Leafeon, Shiftry and Sawsbuck, and the last time I wrote something about Pluff on Smogon, I was told that Pivot set are outdone by GrassVally.
So I'll do my best to change their mind, first Jumpluff is far more customizable with access to a lot of support moves in Sleep Powder, Encore, Memento, and U-turn. Thanks to its 110 base Speed it outspeeds a lot of relevant Pokemon that can otherwise check Grass-type such as Rapidash, Simis, and +1 Combusken. Thanks to Strenght Sap, everything that can't OHKO it on the physical spectrum won't be able to deal with it (beside Pawniard, Purugly and Bouff obviously). It's also the best Sleep spreader in the tier because even if it only has 55 base attack neither Komala and grass-types want to switch on it. But even without Sleep Powder, Jumpluff is really dangerous, being able to offensively check most Grass-type outside of Abo, and revenge kill Fighting-types outside of Busken.
Some replaies showing Pluff in action: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-854126389, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-855803626, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-839985154
I don't any other Pokemon in ZU that can offer the same role compression as Jumpluff between it's great bulk, offensive presence and pivoting tool. Some would say that Jumpluff suffers from 4mss since it wants to have dual STAB, U-turn, Sleep Powder, Swords Dance and Strength Sap in one set. However it's partially wrong, while Pluff would like to run all these moves, it's still good with only 4 of them.
From A- to B+. With the decline of stall due to the rise of strong wallbreakers in Shiftry, Komala and Toucannon, I believe the stall staples should drop. Moreover Lickilicky struggles to find a niche in balanced since Wish Komala is often better due to its greater offensive presence, access to U-turn and Rapid Spin.
From A- to A. Silvally-Fighting is imo the second best Silvally form behind Water and one of the few Pokemon that can reliably switch into Shiftry or Rampardos in offense, and one of the few Pokemon that can use BU Komala as set-up fodder. With both Shiftry and BU Komala rising in popularity, I can't see Silvally-Fighting not moving up.
From B to somewhere higher. Defensive CM sets are really potent atm taking advantage of Specially Defensive Komala replacing Lickilicky, Grass-type being more and more used to check Floatzel and Shiftry, Fighting-type being more and more used to check Shiftry, .... Speaking of Shiftry Oricorio can take a +2 Sucker Punch from Shiftry if SR aren't up, outspeeds it and OHKO it with Hurricane. Oricorio-Pompom brings a lot of role compression in Grass and Fighting check as well as Toucannon check, stallbreaker and wincondition. Oricorio eats defensive build even easier than BU Komala and Vigoroth.
Some replaies of the bird: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-847797976, https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-847818590
Oricorio-Pom-Pom @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Taunt
- Hurricane
I also have a problem with the UU rank, for me most of them aren't better than unranked Pokemon such as Klang or Silvally-Flying. That's why I believe we should get rid off this rank. If so I'd like to see these changes:
to UR. This Pokemon is outclassed in almost every way by other Normal-types, its Choice Band set is just a worse Purugly/Raticate and its Cotton Guard is worse than BU Komala/Vigoroth.
to C-. We don't have any other offensive Spiker beside Crustle and unlike it, most Defoger aren't safe to stay on Glalie because of STAB Freeze Dry destroying Watervally, Dracovally and Swanna.
to UR. No real reason to use this over other Psychic-types such as Beheeyem or Grumpig.
Small can go to UR imo because its mostly outclassed by Jumpluff as a SubSeeder and by Super as a Normal resists. Normal can go to UR because it's just a worst Z-Celebrate Leafeon since its Ghost STAB doesn't even allow it to break through Gourgeist-XL. For Lage I believe it can go to UR, because its niche is to beat Regigigas in stall teams which aren't good atm and this niche is already covered by better Pokemon such as Rest Pyukumuku and Dusclops.
to UR. Weather teams aren't good atm.
to UR. It's weak and not bulky. Each time I've tried it, it dissapointed me.
idk, I never used this mon and I only faced noobs using it with trash sets.
to C-. It's just a worst Silvally-Water, BUT if you already have another Silvally in your team, you can use this mon which isn't that bad.
to UR. Webs aren't very good and in these teams it's most of the timer outclassed by Kadabra.
to UR. Use Golem.
to UR. Use Chinchou.
to UR. Coil is outclassed by Arbok while AoA are outclassed by other wallbreakers such as Toucannon, Rampardos or Shiftry.
to UR. Stall is going worse and it was already not a good Pokemon in stall teams (it doesn't wall anything: Abo beats it, Shiftry beats it, Leafeon beats it, Vire beats it, Komala beats it, Regi beats it, ...)
to C-. Unlike Shed this Pokemon beats strong offensive threats such as Shiftry, non Stone Edge Pinsir and Taunt Monferno.
to C-. It's one of our few spinners and it has a good MU against most of the hazard setters. But I can defenitely see it drop to UR.
Carbink: B -> B-/C+ (sorry Aaron)
Is this thing really still worthy of B? Trick Room isn't very good in the current meta last time I checked, and we have several much better Stealth Rock setters, such as Bronzor, Golem, Cradily, Crustle, and more. It might be a good Trick Room setter, but I just don't see how this is just as good as things like Servine and Golem-Alola.
I also agree with Furfrou, Onix, Seaking, and Shedinja going to UR, but I think Tuthur1 covered these just fine above.
From A- to B+. With the decline of stall due to the rise of strong wallbreakers in Shiftry, Komala and Toucannon, I believe the stall staples should drop. Moreover Lickilicky struggles to find a niche in balanced since Wish Komala is often better due to its greater offensive presence, access to U-turn and Rapid Spin.
to UR. This Pokemon is outclassed in almost every way by other Normal-types, its Choice Band set is just a worse Purugly/Raticate and its Cotton Guard is worse than BU Komala/Vigoroth.
Small can go to UR imo because its mostly outclassed by Jumpluff as a SubSeeder and by Super as a Normal resists. Normal can go to UR because it's just a worst Z-Celebrate Leafeon since its Ghost STAB doesn't even allow it to break through Gourgeist-XL. For Lage I believe it can go to UR, because its niche is to beat Regigigas in stall teams which aren't good atm and this niche is already covered by better Pokemon such as Rest Pyukumuku and Dusclops.
So ironically I've been playing nothing but stall abusing mons like furfrou and small geist lately so I'm in a pretty good spot to comment on why moving them down is a bad idea. Its also double ironic because Furfrou actually fixes most of the issues you listed with stall right now as its able to, with its bulky boosting set with cotton guard and work up, able to out speed and set up on mons such as toucannon, shiftry, and pinsir(after rocks) which is something both Vig and Komala can't do. Then you have mons like Avalugg which also really help in the SD shiftry and toucannon match up as well. Stall is always going to adapt to the metagame and as I've been pushing it I've found it to still be working very very well.
And as for small geist its actually really good if people stopped running Sub-seed. You can run enough speed to out pace Komala without hardly much investment at all, so you still can keep a lot of bulk. And with that speed you find a lot more situations to pop off a synth or burn/foul play before they get a chance to kill a weakened small geist.
I was actually going to nominate both of them up to move out of UR but given people want them demoted from even that I figured I'd chime in first to defend them a bit.
This is my first time writing something like this so I'm sorry if I fail in any way.
Luxray: UR -> Anything really just put it on there
I don't get why everyone pretends this mon doesn't exist. It has a 120 base attack, 2 great abilities in intimate and guts, and a lot of type coverage with; the elemental fangs, crunch, and super power. Yes it has it's flaws but this ZU, every mon is very flawed. I just don't understand how a mon with this much going for it is a) not even on the VR, and b) has not been mentioned once in this forum till now.
This is my first time writing something like this so I'm sorry if I fail in any way.
Luxray: UR -> Anything really just put it on there
I don't get why everyone pretends this mon doesn't exist. It has a 120 base attack, 2 great abilities in intimate and guts, and a lot of type coverage with; the elemental fangs, crunch, and super power. Yes it has it's flaws but this ZU, every mon is very flawed. I just don't understand how a mon with this much going for it is a) not even on the VR, and b) has not been mentioned once in this forum till now.
One big thing is Electivire being one of the best mons in the metagame. It heavily outclasses it in almost every way as it lacks a real niche over Electivire. Has less solid coverage options (the elemental fangs are really weak, while Electivire has the punches and some great special options), less speed to really break that consistently. While Luxray does have guts as a somewhat cool niche, it doesn't really give it enough to warrant using it over Electivire a lot of the time. The post doesn't really give the council enough to go off of. Some replays would be great to show it off, or just some more substance to further prove your point. Hope this helped you see why there hasn't really been any talk about Luxray!
This is my first time writing something like this so I'm sorry if I fail in any way.
Luxray: UR -> Anything really just put it on there
I don't get why everyone pretends this mon doesn't exist. It has a 120 base attack, 2 great abilities in intimate and guts, and a lot of type coverage with; the elemental fangs, crunch, and super power. Yes it has it's flaws but this ZU, every mon is very flawed. I just don't understand how a mon with this much going for it is a) not even on the VR, and b) has not been mentioned once in this forum till now.
Unfortunately, the reason Luxray is unranked is that it is pretty much completely Electivire. Electivire has access to outright superior coverage options such as Earthquake, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Ice Punch, etc. It also has a much higher speed stat for the same Attack and Special Attack stat (Electivire has 3 more base Attack technically). Intimidate is an interesting ability but Luxray lacks a solid defensive typing or the bulk to utilize it effectively. More or less the same applies for Guts, Luxray lacks the bulk or speed to get more than one hit in before it gets KOd. Luxray also has the issue of being unable to deal with common defensive threats such as Gourgeist since Ice Fang simply isnt strong enough coverage to break common defensive walls such as Gourgeist even with a Guts boost.
252 Atk Guts Luxray Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 126-150 (33.6 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
TL;DR: Luxray is inferior to Electivire in almost every way and is unable to deal with common walls, namely Gourgeist.
A to A- : Altaria has been on the decline lately with the popularity of Bulk Up Komala and Custap Golem/Crustle which take advantage of it. Moreover, while Silvally-Ghost does not have the plethora of resists or recovery that Altaria does, it gives Altaria competition as a Defogger for its ability to reliably check rockers that Altaria cannot such as Golem, Crustle, Bronzor, and Gabite. A drop to A- should reflect its recent to decline in the meta.
A- to A : Rapidash should rise because of how it capitalizes on current metagame trends through its multitude of sets. Choice Scarf is one of the most effect anti-offense Pokemon in the tier because of how easy it is to clean teams in the late-game. It outpaces pretty much all Scarfers and its coverage enables it to pick off most offensive Pokemon. However, it is somewhat prediction reliant in the early- to mid-game as a revenge killer due to its relatively low damage output outside of Flare Blitz.
Next up are its breaking and utility sets. Life Orb 3 attacks is fairly tough to switch into without Pokemon such as phys def Golem, phys def Mareanie, and Pyukumuku. The thing is, SpD Mareanie is more common nowadays and Golem/Pyukumuku are easily covered by teammates such as Silv-Grass and Shiftry. Moreover, Base 105 Speed is incredible in the current meta because of the popularity of Pokemon like Swanna, Leafeon, and Pinsir, all of which are typically forced out by Rapidash (i.e Swanna needs Jet or Scarf, Pinsir needs Scarf). On the other hand, Firium Z, while not seen as much in this meta, is consistently effective for its ability to soft check things like Shiftry, Leafeon, and Kecleon due to Wisp+Morning Sun+Flame Body.
However, Rapidash does have its flaws. For one, it is worn down fairly easily because of its STAB. Secondly, the popularity of Water-types and phys def Golem continually forces it to predict and wear itself down from LO and Wild Charge recoil. Lastly, Firium Z sets do have slight 4mss with the option of High Horsepower or Wild Charge as secondary coverage. Both are useful, but often times Rapidash is walled by something (i.e Swanna or Eviolite Monferno) if it gives up either one.
Other people's noms:
I'm slightly inclined to agree with Bronzor dropping because you bring up really good points, and I also acknowledge that Bronzor is still incredible in the current meta. For example, only really Wish Komala can switch into Bronzor without getting crippled by Toxic or take a chunk from Psywave. For me it's a matter of seeing if metagame trends continue to hold up and significantly affect Bronzor's effectiveness.
I agree with Chatot dropping. Specs is fantastic but just doesn't hold up with the rest of the A- ranks; I found it too matchup reliant in my testing.
Shiftry rising is a no brainer. Definitely a force to be reckon with at this point.
I can't deny that you've made Pancham work and those replays do showcase it. Pancham can be made to work, but I'm not so sure that it is a Pokemon that would see use outside of wanting to use it. For example, you state that Pancham would see use alongside setup Silvally formes. In the same token, setup Silvally formes would also appreciate pivoting support from Rotom-S. Would have to test it before I forumlate a solid opinion.
You bring up a lot of good points for Mareanie rising. It is fairly splashable for its ability to check threats Combusken and Swanna as well. However, I don't think it's the best Pinsir or Komala checks because it gets 2HKOed or has its Eviolite removed. So, I wouldn't use those as reasons for its rise. Personally I think Mareanie is fine where it is because it does have some 4mss and is somewhat easy to take advantage of or is easy to threaten out in the current meta. Moreover, the rise in SpD leaves it more susceptible to physical attackers and vice versa, so I'd say it's reached a peak in the current meta as an A- mon.
Haven't really tested Natu in the current meta and I can understand some of your points other Pokemon in the same potentially being better. That said, Natu takes advantage of one of the best rockers in the meta and punishes lots of passive Pokemon from Pyukumuku to non-Knock Off Mareanie. Will have to test before I have a solid opinion.
Talked about Komala in the metagame thread so I'll only comment on Kadabra. I agree with your post.
I agree that Toucannon is a fantastic breaker and that it's definitely up there as one of the more threatening matchup for bulkier builds. However, its low Speed and the offensive nature of the meta make me believe that Toucannon is not A- worthy. Unlike most of the A- ranks, Toucannon is more or less limited to excelling against slower teams (unless it's under TR which is a different case entirely) and not doing so well against others. Moreover, Toucannon lacks switch in opportunities and is reliant on pivoting and aggressive play.
I agree with a Mawile rise for the reasons you stated, just think that B+ is a stretch because it has certain issues such as 4mss and vulnerability to residual damage.
I'm not so sure about Smeargle dropping. It is arguably the best Sticky Web setter and that playstyle can still put in the work. Ultimately I think if Smeargle were to drop, then all Web setters would have to drop as well.
Can agree with your points on Rampardos. Your team also supports it very well. Something I wanna test out more; leaning toward agreeing with a rise. I also agree with Jumpluff's nom for B- and not B because Jumpluff is not as effective as the B ranks.
Swanna can pick and choose its counters because of how differently each of its sets play, but I think S rank is a stretch. While it acts as a standalone 'mon a lot of the time and can also offer a good amount of support, Swanna just isn't a cut above the rest of A+. This is mainly because each of its sets have obstacles to overcome in this meta and it is matchup reliant to an extent. To clarify, my point is that certain sets such as Z-MM will break very well, but are vulnerable to Scarfers; and, Z-Rain Dance cleans offense but fails to break through sturdier teams.
I agree with Silvally-Fighting rising. This thing is incredibly splashable for its ability to Defog, check Komala/Licky/Shiftry/Golem, and act as a breaker if it wants to. Ice Beam for Altaria and Gourgeist-XL means they're not safe switchings. Gives it some 4mss wirth Toxic or SD, but it's well worth it imo.
On the fence with Pom Pom. Last time I tested it I didn't find it that effective, but the rise of BU Komala and Shiftry may have changed things for the better.
Trick Room is still potent in this metagame as teams lean towards bulky offense. It's always been a relatively effective archetype and nothing has really changed to make it worse.
