Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

With the coming of the new generation, I was really excited to hear that the Pokedex would be cut down, because that means that Pokemon of old and new generations would be able to shine. I was also excited about 1v1, as a new meta would form around the lucky few who were able to avoid Dexit. Little did I know that Mew gained Imprison in Generation 8, allowing it to effectively suffocate a vast majority of the meta game. In this post I will explain my personal reasoning as to why I believe Mew is unhealthy for the meta and 1v1 tier as a whole, and why I believe Mew should be banned.

1. Imprison + Transform
Mew's combination of the move Imprison and Transform allows for it to function as one of the best stall breakers in the game, and for bad reasons. The ability to cripple your opponent in two turns is a frightening prospect. It's existed before in the form of Smeargle, but it was not very good due to Smeargle's frailty and lackluster speed stat. Meanwhile due to Dexit, Mew is one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier when unscarved, and one of the only Pokemon with a dizzying BS100 in every stat. This means that a Max speed, max HP set has the potential to become the most disruptive Pokemon in the meta. By no means is Mew banworthy for this reason alone, but it leaves Mew in the unique position of invalidating Pokemon who encourage unique gamestyles and laying waste to the remarkably slower metagame than last generation.

2. Vast movepool
Mew gets access to one of the largest overall movepools in the game. This means that Imprison Transform Mew has access to two extra move-slots, which allows for Mew to run coverage moves. This makes Mew an even larger threat because it allows for it to shutdown it's most common check, Taunt. Slower taunt users can't rely on Taunt to shut down Imprison Mew because it becomes trapped by Imprison, and in conjunction with a Mental Herb has the potential to shut down faster Taunt users, and most importantly, Sabeleye who is undoubtedly also one of the best Pokemon in the meta at the moment. The last slot can be used to cover substitute, or run an attacking move, which is problematic for reasons I'll get into later.

3. Offensive & Defensive Potential
Mew can take full advantage of the comparatively more frail metagame due to the previously mentioned BS100 in each stat. This means that you can run a full wallbreaker Choice/Specs set and demolish anyone who expects Imprison Mew, or Pokemon built around other metagame threats. Since Mew is also hard to knock out on the defensive side, if you invest you can beat some of Mew's hardest counters, such as Dragapult and Hydregion by soaking up a hit and returning with a Choiced Play Rough or one boosted by Weakness Policy, depending on personal preference.

Technically any Pokemon in the metagame can do this over their most common sets, but Mew does it to a degree where it can fit on almost any team, and not in a manor which encourages creativity. As an example of a very good Pokemon who encourages creativity, let's look at the MegaZard Twins of yester-gen. While I detest the Zard Twins for their unpredictability, I can't deny that they are both not banworthy. The existence of Z-Moves allowed for creative sets which could counter the Zard Twins, such as Torrent Primarina, Torrent Greninja, Outrage Zeraora, and other off meta picks which could beat most Zard Twin sets. These Pokemon were diverse in the ways they took care of each Zard, such as Primarina's typing being just right, Zeraora's speed and offensive coverage clicking all the right boxes, and Torrent Greninja having a really powerful offensive niche. Not to mention the Zard Twins could not run an item, so their omnipresence was less predictable past the Mega Evolution. Not to mention the Zard twins hardly had much coverage outside of their Fire, Dragon and Flying STABs, which allowed for proper preparation.

That being said, composing a Mew set is largely uncreative because of how Mew fits on a team. A Mew counter's primary objective is to play around Imprison in some shape or form, either by preventing the move from activating, or being able to overtake Mew through the effects of Imprison. Not only is this linear in terms of teambuilding, but a Pokemon designed to beat Imprison Mew can either be OHKO'd by Choice Mew, or be so specifically dedicated to beating Mew that it lacks coverage against a vast majority of the meta. (There are few exceptions to this at the moment, but upon looking at the roster, it doesn't look like many will present themselves) If the Zard-twins attempted to deviate too far from the well beaten path, they would stumble into unviable territories. Meanwhile Mew has the bulk and offense to function as whatever it so pleases.

4. The Shape of the Meta
While the meta is always changing, I feel Mew will encourage the meta to not change because of what it demands and what it offers. Sabeleye can defeat almost every choice user in the game due to Protect --> Disable, who also beats many non-choice Pokemon if running Trick --> Disable. This encourages Fairy and Dark type coverage in order to deal with Sabeleye. Dark types such as Hydregion have the best chance against Mew, but lose if Mew carries any shape or form of fairy coverage (dark pulse can flinch though, which can clutch out a win on occasion). Not a single Fairy Type in the tier can reliably defeat Mew, except for Mimikyu and Specs Sylveon. Maybe Trick Togekiss can beat Mew, but it functions entirely on hax to defeat most opponents. Sylveon doesn't have a chance unless it's specs, which leaves it vulnerable to Sabeleye's Disable. Mew can tank a Modest Max SpAttk Pixilate boosted Hyper Beam, Imprison, Transform, then tank the subsequent Struggles if Sylveon lacks Specs. Other dedicated Mew counters are usually dedicated to Imprison Mew, so Mew has a different set that can counter that and many other metagame threats simultaneously. (Please note that if Mew's sets to counter it's own counters were bad against the rest of the meta game, then this would be a non issue). Mew synergizes perfectly with uncreative strategies, encourages hax, and can be edited to beat some of its counters depending on what's on ladder. I may change my mind on this ban if in the coming months a definite flaw in Mew's game plan is identified and capitalized on, but as it stands currently, Mew seems too centralizing for my taste.

In conclusion (tl;dr):
Mew is unhealthy due to its unique roll of having great bulk, a win condition against most of the Meta, and sets which can counter Mew's most common counters. Mixed with the frailty of the Meta game, Mew can function as a sweeper with a choice item or be the ultimate anti stall, while simultaneously functioning as a stall Pokemon if it isn't OHKO'd or 2HKO'd. It also synergizes perfectly with Pokemon like Sabeleye, who encourage boring strategies to beat Mew's counters. It also encourages Togekiss usage, which inadvertently encourages hax as a predominant strategy. If Mew stays unbanned, so be it, I'll deal, but I don't think it's within our best interests as a community.

Bias Check: I am an adamant hater of stall in this format, as I feel it isn't a fun way to play. However, I see valor in stall's use defensively in conjunction with offense, like Milotic or Serperior in Gen 7. I also hate unpredictability to the extent that laddering is Inherently random in itself, so additional randomness makes teambuilding especially difficult. As of making this post I am ranked #4 on the ladder at 1673 ELO, so I feel I am at least somewhat qualified to give my input on this matter. (Although everyone's input is valuable at the end of the day, the requests of the few carry little weight over the requests of the masses). I should also mention I was active in Gen 7 for a while as well, which is where I got my fill of the Mega Zard Twins.

Edit: Fixed some grammar and fixed an error I made in my explanation
Edit 2: Fixed a mixup on my part and elaborated further.
 
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I'd also like to more briefly weigh in on the Sabeleye argument. I glazed upon the issue of Sabeleye in my Mew analysis, and while I don't like Sabeleye, I can't decide if it's overpowered or not.

Prankster Protect --> Disable is not ban worthy yet imo. While I cited it in my Mew post about encouraging waves in the meta I'm not a fan of, that's mostly because Sabeleye isn't ran to "beat" a single Pokemon, it's ran to beat a item. The sad truth about that strategy is that it will almost always beat Galarian Darmanitan, unless it's Zen Mode, which I predict will not become more popular than Gorilla Tactics. Sabeleye's role as a Pokemon who's purpose is to defeat an item rather than having good or bad matchups makes it complicated to judge.

That is why I'm going to play devil's advocate and make a case both for and against Sabeleye being banned.

For: Sabeleye's access to Protect --> Disable as well as Trick --> Disable removes skill from the game, as a Sabeleye in team preview could result in an automatic loss given you don't have a Dark Type or Alcreamy. One could claim that this is the mark of a top tier Pokemon, but to that I say that Mega Charizard never won instantly from team preview, not unless your team was either extremely off meta or was poorly built in general. Meanwhile the spirit of battling is crushed, as there is no counterplay other than running a different Pokemon. It sucks the soul out of calcs if existing is a counter, and also makes chosing teammates for Sabeleye as simple as covering the weaknesses of your given set. Meanwhile, Grimmsnarl and Whimsmicott (Prankster Pokemon who are blocked by dark types) both have Fairy coverage, which means they may always have STAB, giving pause to anyone with the hope of instantly winning because they have a Scrafty or a Hydregion. There's at least some sort of exchange, hope of a crit, something out of left field. Sabeleye encourages cteaming and has the potential to break the spirit of 1v1 as a whole.

Against: People saying Sabeleye is insanely broken are ignoring the vast amount of holes in Sabeleye's game plan. Trick --> Disable requires Sabeleye to survive with awful bulk. Sylveon can win if it doesn't run specs, and requires clever strategy on both ends to win, making it more than just a blanket counter. People also fail to mention that Sabeleye is weak to Pokemon who run more than one attacking move, as Protect --> Disable can be played around, exposing Sabeleye's pitiful bulk and lack of utility past Disable. Not to mention, it's too soon to say if Choice items will be in vogue this generation. Hard counters to Sabeleye have utility versus other metagame threats as well. People are ignore the fact that Charizard retained the same 50/50 approach to win it's battles, yet it too saw high usage and had counters to both sets, like Primarina or Torrent Greninja. Just because a strategy may be stall doesn't mean it's uncompetitive. It calls upon teams to have more than just offense, and also encourages running more unique sets that don't rely on wallbreaking alone. It isn't bad, just different. There's always a counter play. Assault Vest can even be ran, as the lack of power creep leaves an enticing bulky void in the meta that has yet to be filled.

I hope I brought good points to each side of the argument. If I had to choose right now, I would probably say keep, as there's no reason we can't wait for the meta to develop and bring this discussion up at a later date. Please give your own thoughts! I know my arguments probably have holes in them. I just want what will be the healthiest for the format.

Edit: Changed the preface to more accurately represent the body paragraphs.
Edit 2: adjusted wording and fixed some grammar
 
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zio

everything is funny in retrospect
is a Pre-Contributor
While Mew and Sabeleye are still being discussed as potentially broken it is undeniable that they are top threats. There has been a increase in usage of Dark types that went unmentioned until the rise of Mew and Sabeleye. Question is are any of these Dark type mons viable outside of checking Mew and Sabeleye?
I'll bold what I think is actually worth looking at.
Umbreon
Tyranitar
Shiftry
Sabeleye(of course)
Crawdaunt
Skuntank
Drapion
Liepard
Scrafty
Bisharp
Mandibuzz
Hydregion

Pangoro
Malamar
Silvally-Dark
Thievul
Grimmsnarl
Obstagoon

Morpeko
248.png
Tyranitar is seeing basically no usage at the moment. But it is Ttar, it will see usage at some point but I think right now Sawk and CB Mew with CC are too common. It will likely run band, AV, and WP. Will edit in more stuff once I've laddered with it.
Sabeleye has already been talked about in the forum. Fails to check itself unless you're running CM+Sub. Most sets beat all Mew sets excluding Switcheroo v Specs/Scarf Dazzling Gleam.
Bisharp is wack. It basically only deals with Sturdy mons outside of Mew&Sabeleye. Steelix and Crustle w/ EQ destroy it. It's frail and not strong enough to carry its bad typing, mediocre speed, and lack of useful ability. Bisharp has the niche of strong Sucker Punch but it's not enough to carry it to being worthwhile unless your team really struggles with Mew/Sabeleye.
Mandibuzz is a stall mon. It's not a top threat but it gets the job done with good bulk and reliable recovery. Its speed tier is also decent for a stall mon. It can serve as a special or physical wall but it's a better physical one because it has STAB Foul Play and Iron Defense.
Hydregion is actually interesting. 98 is a good speed tier and 125 spatk is pretty solid. Specs and Scarf seem pretty solid. Scarf murks a lot of top threats like Dracovish, Dragapult, Darmanitan-Galar and Aegislash. It also has a solid movepool and decent enough bulk to live some hits. Offensive Mew can kill you if its running CC or Gleam but Scarf is rare and Hydregion kills Mew otherwise, will add calcs later.
D86516B6-0531-4FBF-A5B7-894655099BC3.jpeg
Silvally-Dark worth mentioning as it is one of the only mons that actually checks all Mew sets. Even CB CC fails to kill and 120bp Multi-Attack murks Mew. Icy Wind Helps with the additional chip need to secure the KO. But therein lies the issue. 95 atk/spatk is quite mediocre. I doubt Silvally-Dark will have much use even with its good movepool because its just too weak.
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Grimmsnarl is a prankster mon that doesn’t rely on cheese to win. Bulk Up comes to mind as its best set. Screens also works. Its typing is very good and it has decent bulk along with 120 atk allows it too beat a lot of things in the tier. Sucker Punch finishes off anything that may threaten a 2HKO on Grimmsnarl. By no means a top tier threat but it has a niche.
CADDCE14-F71D-44BF-99B6-27C5D98C6C4D.png
Obstagoon is was being sleep on in almost every tier until people realized how good it is. 95 base speed with Guts boosted 90 atk is nothing to scoff at. Obstruct allows you to beat some threats you may not usually. Although, my issue is that Guts takes a turn to activate. Imprison Mew can actually beat it which is disappointing. Obstagoon is worth taking a look at imo but I doubt it will become a sleeper pick like it is in other tiers.

Those are quick thoughts on the Dark types in the tier. Of course time will tell of these mon’s viability but I though it was a good idea to talk about them as most teams now feature one in the current meta. I plan to edit in calcs and sets later once I’ve actually tested some that I haven’t already.
Edit: SlickL7690 has also mentioned viability for Scrafty, see his post for an explanation.
RunWithTheScizors also mentioned Crawdaunt. Their posts are below mine. I now have even less faith in Obstagoon as well.
 
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I think this is a great post! I'd just like to talk about Scrafty briefly, as I believe Scrafty fulfills a niche that no other Dark type in the meta does, and that is being able to check most sets of Darmanitan due to having access to Intimidate. The secondary fighting type also allows it to be able to check many dark types popular in the meta with investment. Losing Knock Off access does hurt Scrafty in such a Knock Offable meta, but Crunch fulfills that STAB role for beating key Ghost types, which is another niche it can fill. Aegislash can't block Taunt through King's Shield, so after a taunt it will be locked into attack form and be liable to being Crunched to death (I recommend a Sitrus or Aguav berry for this role, as Sacred Sword bypasses any defense boosts, so Intimidate is pulling all the work here. Fast Aegislash should also be feared). Cursola also only runs Eviolite, so a Taunt is pretty much guaranteed and Night Shade is ineffective. If a completely Defensive Scrafty is more your speed, then Scrafty gets access to Counter as well. Defensive Choice Band is also an option due to Scrafty having no chance of checking any fairy in the tier, so just go ham on the ones it can win against. Also, because it's part fighting, it can run intimidate against Bisharp and survive an Iron Head, granting the opportunity to KO. It can also try to run Poison Job for Whimsmicott but you'll probably get hit by a Moonblast in the end anyway. Also Fake Out is great chip. I'm done.
 

zio

everything is funny in retrospect
is a Pre-Contributor
I think this is a great post! I'd just like to talk about Scrafty briefly, as I believe Scrafty fulfills a niche that no other Dark type in the meta does, and that is being able to check most sets of Darmanitan due to having access to Intimidate. The secondary fighting type also allows it to be able to check many dark types popular in the meta with investment. Losing Knock Off access does hurt Scrafty in such a Knock Offable meta, but Crunch fulfills that STAB role for beating key Ghost types, which is another niche it can fill. Aegislash can't block Taunt through King's Shield, so after a taunt it will be locked into attack form and be liable to being Crunched to death (I recommend a Sitrus or Aguav berry for this role, as Sacred Sword bypasses any defense boosts, so Intimidate is pulling all the work here. Fast Aegislash should also be feared). Cursola also only runs Eviolite, so a Taunt is pretty much guaranteed and Night Shade is ineffective. If a completely Defensive Scrafty is more your speed, then Scrafty gets access to Counter as well. Defensive Choice Band is also an option due to Scrafty having no chance of checking any fairy in the tier, so just go ham on the ones it can win against. Also, because it's part fighting, it can run intimidate against Bisharp and survive an Iron Head, granting the opportunity to KO. It can also try to run Poison Job for Whimsmicott but you'll probably get hit by a Moonblast in the end anyway. Also Fake Out is great chip. I'm done.
Yeah that. I was going to add Scrafty but I didn't know its niche but it seems to be a good physical wall and a Dark type which can actually beat Aegislash, neat!

To avoid making a one-liner I want to talk about Hydregion. Hydregion has a very good speed tier for 1v1 being able to run both scarf and specs. 125 spatk is also very good. Scarf especially tears apart all mons currently in S and A+.
I've also seen a decent amount of Crawdaunt however I really fail to see its niche. It is incredibly strong however I think it's too slow and too frail to work, also only being strong on Water/Dark isn't optimal as it limits coverage.
 
Yeah that. I was going to add Scrafty but I didn't know its niche but it seems to be a good physical wall and a Dark type which can actually beat Aegislash, neat!

To avoid making a one-liner I want to talk about Hydregion. Hydregion has a very good speed tier for 1v1 being able to run both scarf and specs. 125 spatk is also very good. Scarf especially tears apart all mons currently in S and A+.
I've also seen a decent amount of Crawdaunt however I really fail to see its niche. It is incredibly strong however I think it's too slow and too frail to work, also only being strong on Water/Dark isn't optimal as it limits coverage.
I’ve used Crawdaunt, so I can speak for him I guess. First things first, he absolutely crushes stall and slow mons. Choice band adaptability knock off claps mew extremely hard, assuming it’s not like, tbolt. Sableye fears this thing. Any fast, offensive threat can beat him though.
 

zio

everything is funny in retrospect
is a Pre-Contributor
I’ve used Crawdaunt, so I can speak for him I guess. First things first, he absolutely crushes stall and slow mons. Choice band adaptability knock off claps mew extremely hard, assuming it’s not like, tbolt. Sableye fears this thing. Any fast, offensive threat can beat him though.
Also CC or Gleam from Mew. I’ll add Crawdaunt and Scrafty to the post. It’s no question that Crawdaunt is incredibly strong but if I had to rank it would be somewhere in C or D. C+-B for Scrafty.
 
(Posted this on VR earlier on accident)

Something that I haven't seen discussed much is a good core for 1v1, apart from your obligatory sableye+mew.
So here's one that I've used to decent sucess.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- King's Shield
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
(Aegislash isn't really optimised, can definitely be better)

Yes, it's an OU core, doesn't mean it isn't good.
They cover each other's weaknesses perfectly, as in they all resist/are immune to types the other mon doesn't.

Hydreigon deals with Mew/Sableye, as well as Dragapult (Non-Scarf), Galarian Darm and Dracovish (Unless like, haban berry).

Aegislash deals with Pesky Fairies and other mons that think they win because they have super effective moves thanks to weakness policy.

Up to now, this team is kinda weak against bulky water mons, so personally I'd run an electric or grass type in the third slot.
 
Been a lurker for a long time but since this is the first metagame that I've actually really enjoyed and had success laddering with, wanted to share a set that I found really useful.

Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam/Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Originally added it to my team to counter Mimikyu, but then I found out that Neutralizing Gas doesn't get rid of Disguise, which was dissapointing. But it's been very useful as a fairy type that takes out Dragons as well as it hits surprisingly hard against water types and counters Sableye and Grimmsnarl very well.
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
Been a lurker for a long time but since this is the first metagame that I've actually really enjoyed and had success laddering with, wanted to share a set that I found really useful.

Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam/Dazzling Gleam
- Sludge Wave
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

Originally added it to my team to counter Mimikyu, but then I found out that Neutralizing Gas doesn't get rid of Disguise, which was dissapointing. But it's been very useful as a fairy type that takes out Dragons as well as it hits surprisingly hard against water types and counters Sableye and Grimmsnarl very well.
Welcome! I've made an optimized set before to beat more threats:
Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 28 SpA / 76 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Sludge Wave
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 96 Def Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 76+ SpD Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Speed is for Corviknight.
Overall I think Galarian Weezing is more disappointing than I thought when I was analyzing it. It only has a little more than 300 SpA after a Choice Specs boost which is pathetic. It has nice coverage to beat the top threats but it relies on super-effective moves, and its bulk is less satisfying than you'd think it would be. Its matchups represent an anti-meta Pokemon whose niche is too small to be solid, but nonetheless it can win some matchups against the A tier:
Darmanitan-Galar: win (unless Band)
Dragapult: win (unless Substitute + Disable)
Mew: lose
Dracovish: win (unless Band)
Sableye: win (Neutralizing Gas negates Prankster)
Aegislash: lose
Mimikyu: win
Galarian Corsola: lose
Corviknight: win (unless Sitrus Berry + Protect)
Crustle: win
Haxorus: win
Sawk: win
Sylveon: win
Whimsicott: win
As you can see, it's very set-dependent against the more powerful attackers, once again due to its wanting bulk and limited offensive capabilities.
 
Welcome! I've made an optimized set before to beat more threats:
Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 28 SpA / 76 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Sludge Wave
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Iron Tail vs. 248 HP / 96 Def Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 76+ SpD Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Speed is for Corviknight.
Overall I think Galarian Weezing is more disappointing than I thought when I was analyzing it. It only has a little more than 300 SpA after a Choice Specs boost which is pathetic. It has nice coverage to beat the top threats but it relies on super-effective moves, and its bulk is less satisfying than you'd think it would be. Its matchups represent an anti-meta Pokemon whose niche is too small to be solid, but nonetheless it can win some matchups against the A tier:
Darmanitan-Galar: win (unless Band)
Dragapult: win (unless Substitute + Disable)
Mew: lose
Dracovish: win (unless Band)
Sableye: win (Neutralizing Gas negates Prankster)
Aegislash: lose
Mimikyu: win
Galarian Corsola: lose
Corviknight: win (unless Sitrus Berry + Protect)
Crustle: win
Haxorus: win
Sawk: win
Sylveon: win
Whimsicott: win
As you can see, it's very set-dependent against the more powerful attackers, once again due to its wanting bulk and limited offensive capabilities.
Sableye wins with Roseli berry
 

Elo Bandit

I COULD BE BANDIT!
is a Pre-Contributor
:weezing-galar:
Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Overheat
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
I love this thing because it beats Banded Dracovish and Darmanitan-Galar. Bold is the way to go imo.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Weezing-Galar: 132-156 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
:weezing-galar:
Weezing-Galar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strange Steam
- Overheat
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
I love this thing because it beats Banded Dracovish and Darmanitan-Galar. Bold is the way to go imo.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Weezing-Galar: 132-156 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Weezing-Galar: 282-332 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Your EVs are unoptimized

252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 96+ Def Weezing-Galar: 272-320 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
saved you 12 EVs
 

zio

everything is funny in retrospect
is a Pre-Contributor
peak.PNG

bagel bang is also mine at the bottum

I've recently stopped being awful at 1v1 and instead have become mediocre. I feel this gives me entitlement about something I want gone.
This stupid garbage.
Sabeleye is such a stupid mon. It has a variety of the same set and CM/Wisp. Getting to 1664 required very little brainpower with this outright broken mess. Priority Encore+Disable is a massive issue and it's not helped by the fact Sabeleye also gets Recover augmenting its survivability. Trick is also what contributes to this thing being very dumb. A lefties stall mon is no longer a reliable counter because if you're tricked a scarf it is all over. This mon is ridiculous, it has quite possibly the most broken moveset that a Prankster mon could have in 1v1. A huge factor for me is that it limits teambuilding. You need a reliable check on every team but what can be defined as a definite check in quite limited. Sylveon consistently destroys Sabeleye, excluding Specs vs Protect+Disable. A lot of dark types outright beat all sets however I think it is worth noting that bulky Sabeleye has a solid chance of defeating special dark types, mainly Hydregion. I am 100% calling for a suspect for this mon. It limits teambuilding and leads to an unhealthy metagame which is constantly living in Sabeleye's shadow.
If you wish to abuse brokens before they are I gone I suggest Choice Scarf Trick or Standard Encore+Disable. If you want to beat other Sabeleyes or Hydregion then run CM.

Moving on from that another point of contention has been Mew.

I really don't think this thing is banworthy yet however I do believe after Sabeleye is gone Mew will become an issue. Right now strong offensive mons faster than Mew, namely Cinderace and the myriad of strong scarfers, are very prevalent. This was really overhyped as incredibly broken but when building teams it rarely comes up as an issue unless I've decided to run 3 mons slower that 100. After playing a lot of the meta I don't believe this thing is some unstoppable godsend. I can see the argument for its insane capabilities but I think waiting until after Sabeleye is gone would be wise.

Various fun mons
Cinderace is really neat. Its two sets (that I know of) are Sub Liechi and CB. Both are pretty solid picks that beat a lot of things. Sub Liechi is a great wall breaker as STAB 116 atk Pyro ball is solid, but with +1 blaze everything melts. CB is great as it Cinderace enough attack to utilize its good movepool. When this gets Libero it's going to be one hell of a mon.
Rillaboom has been slept on. Drum Beating lowers speed and coming off of 125 attack it can 2hko a lot of things with minimal investment. It also has 100/90/70 bulk which is usable and its spdef can be patched up with AV anyways. The combination of its strong attack, solid coverage, decent bulk,and 85 speed tier make it an incredibly solid pick. It also is notable for beating Mew consistently with proper EV distribution as even if Drum Beating into Knock Off fails to kill then struggle will. This thing is worth labbing.
Duraludon is a great partner to Sabeleye, no fairy type will shrug off a Steel Beam. Being able to OHKO a majority of the tier with Specs Steel Beam is nothing to scoff at. AV can also help against many special mons that otherwise tear through Duraludon's lackluster spdef. A very fun mon.

Cinderace @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Iron Head

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Disable
- Recover
- Substitute

Duraludon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stalwart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steel Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt
A team that focuses on making the most out of broken Sabeleye. EVs are not optimized in the least but that didn't stop me from getting a lot of mileage out of the team.
Silvally @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Icy Wind

Mew @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Imprison
- Transform
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute

Sawk @ Choice Band
Ability: Sturdy
Happiness: 160
EVs: 4 HP / 108 Atk / 160 Def / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- Poison Jab
- Throat Chop
Dark Type+Sawk+Mew is an incredibly strong combination. EVs are optimized on Sawk to be able to live from Haxorous and Excadrill, drop enough speed for max attack if you wish to OHKO Dracovish. This core is just so solid it does a really good job of beating a lot of things. What I have noticed is that it gets 3-0d by Rillaboom, maybe Silvally could be changed but I need something that checked Mew 100% of the time.
Sylveon @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn
- Protect

Haxorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail

Cinderace @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Taunt
Beats quite a bit, not optimized or properly tested but the few games I have played this team is pretty damn good. The main goal is too let Haxorous do its thing unimpeded has Sylveon checks whatever Haxorus can't. Cinderace is for bulky mons like Corviknight.
 
Rillaboom has been slept on. Drum Beating lowers speed and coming off of 125 attack it can 2hko a lot of things with minimal investment. It also has 100/90/70 bulk which is usable and its spdef can be patched up with AV anyways. The combination of its strong attack, solid coverage, decent bulk,and 85 speed tier make it an incredibly solid pick. It also is notable for beating Mew consistently with proper EV distribution as even if Drum Beating into Knock Off fails to kill then struggle will. This thing is worth labbing.
So, people found out about my son, Rillaboom. I’ve been using it a lot, and i mean a lot, most of my teams are composed of it since it can reliably check Imprison Mew (God willing) and a couple of other threats. Here is my spread if anyone wants to use Rillaboom more.

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Atk / 60 Def / 52 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drum Beating
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
pls no cteam ;3
As zioziotrip said, this thing is a force to be reckoned with. I’ll split this up into sections to be neater.

1. Drum Beating
This is what makes this Pokemon great. This is what Bulldoze wishes it could be. Being STAB 80BP off a base 125 attack does enough chip to get the jump on Mew after a speed drop (which is what the 52 speed is for). Knock Off then removes the Mew’s item (which is normally a berry or specs item, but I’m sure people will run White Herb eventually because Mew is stupid flexible). My spread doesn’t KO and I need to win the speed tie. I would run more attack except...I have other threats I prepare for. The 60def isn’t for a particular Pokemon but it seems to help against Mimikyu, as 60 def means I can’t be OHKO’d by play rough after a Life Orb - Swords Dance - Play Rough. Beats most Curse sets too. If I’m smart about it, then I can Knock Off the Life Orb and survive a Shadow Sneak after the Play Rough as well. This also puts Rillaboom into Overgrow, which basically guarantees Mimikyu at 90% health is outta here!

2. Drain Punch
I know what you’re thinking: Drain Punch? Why? Well, with an AV, at these stats, Modest Scarf Hydreigon dies to two Drain Punches, and needs the recovery to survive 2 Fire Blasts/Flamethrowers. Prone to burn but that’s the game. This also helps versus Pokemon such as Bisharp and Excadrill (may be better to use Drum Beating if it’s Banded Vs. Scarved, you do you). Consider switching this out for the more powerful Superpower if you’re feeling super offensive or you’re running a Fake Out bulky sweeper set. This also beats other Pokemon who are weak to it, or who you want to slowly deplete your HP to Overgrow range to hit with a strong Drum Beating, like Pyukumyuku.

3. Knock Off
I run Knock Off mostly because it’s the most powerful Dark Type attack which Rillaboom can learn, and it removes an item, which is literally what I need to deal with most Mew variants. Knock Off also works notably well against Pokemon who rely on their item for unpredictability. Unfortunately this completely loses to Weakness Policy Aegislash, but if it’s a special variant without a Weakness Policy, Rillaboom has a good chance. This also has good potential against Specs Drapapult, and can beat some Sabeley sets to get rid of Knock Off.

4. Earthquake
Behold the most flexible moveslot. I run Earthquake because it can 2HKO (most) Galarian Weezings and OHKO any Toxitricity, given it can survive a hit. Also hits Gengar super hard, and defeats Riolu cheese (just a happy accident I ran it when it showed up on ladder, lol). This also is great coverage for Togedemaru after a Knock Off. Depending on the set, this can be Fake Out or a Status Move or whatever you want.

5. Alternate Move options
- Superpower: Provides more power for maximum damage output.
- Noble Roar: Really good defensively versus stall pokemon or bulky tanks (especially in conjunction with Knock Off)
- Leech Seed: Allows Rillaboom to put that beautiful base 100 HP stat to good use and soak up a few hits. Though the number of stall Pokemon it reliably walls is very limited. Good for checking off-meta tanks.
- Taunt: Can be used to cripple stall Pokemon with good matchups against teammates (just not mew because Mew runs Taunt and Imprison)
- Swords Dance: If left unchecked, this thing can go ham on the competition, but it loses to most special threats turn 1 without an AV.
- Fake Out: Great for chip against certain threats in order to grant KOs.
- Wood Hammer: Makes this thing an absolute offensive beast! The recoil isn’t very good against anything it can’t OHKO though, and if used in conjunction with Drum Beat can give ample opportunity to use it, but at the cost of coverage.
- Bulk Up: Great if you’re running a physically defensive set and wanna set up.
- Darkest Lariat: If used in conjunction with Swords Dance can surprise KO setup Pokemon who don’t see it coming, like Pressure Corvinknight. Knock Off is usually better though.
- Endure: 85 base speed is nothing to be ashamed of! Slap a Salac Berry on that bad boy and an Overgrow boosted Wood Hammer can really threaten some of the slower metagame. Especially useful against Sylvyon Hyper Beam or Duraludon Steel Beam.
- Substitute: I don’t see this being good, so you do you, maybe you wanna cteam that one stall Pokemon you can’t seem to counter otherwise, idk.
- Protect: Because.

6. Alternate Item Options
- Leftovers: If in conjunction with set-up moves or Leech Seed can give Rillaboom vitality.
- Sitrus Berry: Keeping Rillaboom topped off can be key to properly setting up, and granting more chances to win the speed tie versus Imprison Mew specifically.
- Normal Gem: Can boost Fake Out’s power, granting borderline ridiculous amounts of chip right off the bat. Also gives Rillaboom access to using Acrobatics, if it wants to try surviving a hit from Guts Conkeldurr, such as Close Combat, and getting the KO, but this so so damn situational it hurts, so use with caution.
- Miracle Seed: Great choice if you don’t want to be locked into a Choice Item but want to have that oomph, and hits as hard as a Band in Overgrow range.
- Liechi Berry: Good for reverse OHKOing threats such as Hydreigon after. tanking a hit, and allowing for minimal attack investment, and can even function on a semi-offensive stall set.
- Weakness Policy: Always has a place in the meta given the right team composition.

7. Checks and Counters (besides Mew and Sabeleye because this meta is doo doo and it’s so set dependent)
- Corviknight: Rillaboom has no super effective hits, and gets owned by offense and defense because of PP stalling.
- Cinderace: It’s fast and it hits for powerful, super effective damage. Say a quick Hail Mary that Pyro Ball misses.
- Ferrothorn: If you aren’t running Swords Dance, you have 0 shots to win.
- Intimidate: Pokemon with Intimidate typically wall this Pokemon, the most notable being Arcanine and Gyarados.
- Darmanitan-Galar: Icicle Crash obliterates. If it misses then you can probs OHKO tho.
- Strong Bug types: Vikavolt can put its absurd Special Attacking Bug Buzz to work, as can Golispod with physical attack.
- Burn: This thing can’t function under burn. It needs some offensive pressure. If Mew and Sabeleye get the axe, then Will-o-wisp Dragapult will probs be super common.

Also a note about abilities:
I do know that Rillaboom gets Grassy Surge as it's ability eventually, and while that's great for making it stall or a grassy wallbreaker, it makes it objectivity worse at doing chip into it's opponents. Grass moves being majorly boosted means you can activate Sitrus Berry with far less attack investment, meaning Mew is going to have a way easier time getting transform off. Choice Band Rillaboom does intrigue me though, I have to run calcs, but it doesn't even matter as long as Rillaboom's hidden ability isn't released yet. The point still stands that even if it's released, I'd rather run Overgrow. It's so nice from a speed control perspective and lots of the time, the opponent doesn't see it coming.

Those are my thoughts. Happy battling everyone!

Edit: Fixed Galarian Weezing's name and clarified Earthquake's role a bit.
Edit 2: Finished my sentence under Drain Punch and added a section about Overgrow vs. unreleased Grassy Surge
 
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To join in on the Sab train, here's the set I've been running while.

Heartless (Sableye) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Disable
- Encore
- Night Shade

This set was designed to beat Mew reliably (even though ladder can just switch moves to cteam you, shoutout maxy) and other Sableye "reliably" (through speed creeping...). Max Spdef is for the various 2 viable infiltrator mons in the tier being Pult and Chandelure (i guess).

https://pokepast.es/a508bdee8ef6e53c - Here's the team to go with it ~ peaked #1 w/ it (proof in sig). I used band drill most of the time but switched to lo more recently. This shit is so brainless. I'll just leave it at that.
This is why Encore on Mew is so underrated, it allows Mew to hard counter both Encore and Trick Sableye by Encoring on turn 1.

Examples:

Turn 1: Sableye used either Protect or Substitute, then Mew used Encore
If Substitute, Mew wins if its 4th move can break the Substitute within two hits.
If Protect, Mew can safely use Imprison since Sableye can't Encore an Encore.

And if Sableye runs a Trick set:
Turn 1: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Encore (Mew has Choice Scarf, and Sableye is Encored)
Turn 2: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Encore (Sableye has Choice Scarf)
Turn 3: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Imprison (Mew has Choice Scarf)
Turn 4: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Imprison (Sableye has Choice Scarf, and Encore wears off)
Turn 5: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Transform (Sableye Struggles while Mew gets locked into a new move)
Mew wins.

And Encore on Mew has other uses than beating Sableye. It also can beat other Pokemon that relies on either Trick/Encore/Substitute, and all for a single attack. It is crazy that you considered that Sableye set a counter to Mew since it loses to what I consider Mew's best set.
 
This is why Encore on Mew is so underrated, it allows Mew to hard counter both Encore and Trick Sableye by Encoring on turn 1.

Examples:

Turn 1: Sableye used either Protect or Substitute, then Mew used Encore
If Substitute, Mew wins if its 4th move can break the Substitute within two hits.
If Protect, Mew can safely use Imprison since Sableye can't Encore an Encore.

And if Sableye runs a Trick set:
Turn 1: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Encore (Mew has Choice Scarf, and Sableye is Encored)
Turn 2: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Encore (Sableye has Choice Scarf)
Turn 3: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Imprison (Mew has Choice Scarf)
Turn 4: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Imprison (Sableye has Choice Scarf, and Encore wears off)
Turn 5: Sableye used Trick, then Mew used Transform (Sableye Struggles while Mew gets locked into a new move)
Mew wins.

And Encore on Mew has other uses than beating Sableye. It also can beat other Pokemon that relies on either Trick/Encore/Substitute, and all for a single attack. It is crazy that you considered that Sableye set a counter to Mew since it loses to what I consider Mew's best set.
My heart can't take this, why does Mew have a set for like almost everything ;-; we live and we learn tho.
 
As we all know, there's been talk of banning sableye. I like this idea, and would definitely not be sad to see sab go. However, I'd argue that a different ban, which better addresses the real issue, would be preferable.

I suggest we suspect Disable.

Disable is a move that inherently leads to uncompetitive sets, 50/50 mindgames, and centralization of the metagame. Sableye is the biggest offender, thanks to Prankster, a good typing, and a great movepool, but Dragapult, Aromatisse and Salazzle are all great users as well.

There are three main types of disable abusers right now.

The first uses trick, a choice scarf, and Disable, with Fling as a backup option against other choice users. Sableye is the only mon capable of pulling off this set, which plays by the following rules:
-Everything that uses a choice item and cannot OHKO loses.
-Otherwise, everything that can't OHKO without its item loses.


The second type of Disable abuser uses encore, disable, and some way to go first (prankster, trick room, high speed). Aromatisse and sableye are best at pulling off this set, and salazzle as a small niche doing the same thing. It operates under the following rules:
-Everything that moves first and can't 2HKO loses.
-Everything that doesn't move first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that moves first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that doesn't move first loses.
-Everything that needs a specific move to win, and can't outspeed, is forced into mindgames.


Finally, there's a third type of Disable users, which do not force the opponent into a move but instead rely solely on Disable itself. Dragapult is the only pokemon that embodies this niche currently. Matchups are decided as follows:
-Everything with a choice item that moves first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that doesn't move first loses.
-Everything that needs a specific move to win, and can't outspeed, is forced into mindgames.


There are exceptions here, of course! Aroma Veil users (all two of them) are immune to Disable. A few mons can barely deal enough damage with struggle to win even after losing the ability to use their moves. However, these are the exception rather than the rule. In general, those rules dictate the matchups that a disable user can or cannot win, and if we consider them it must be apparent that this applies to dozens of highly diverse mons with highly diverse typings and roles.

Is Disable overpowered? I think so; let me make my arguments why.

Perish Song is less problematic but still banworthy.
Perish Song has been banned for years from all generations of 1v1, for being both overpowered and uncompetitive, invalidating entire archetypes, and generally not being worth using even with each individual mon that gets it being a bit weaksauce.

Disable? Disable is worse. It's much harder to counter with strong choiced attacks (and in the case of sableye, impossible), it doesn't result in auto-losses against extremely slow mons, it generally requires its users to tank fewer hits (a perish song user should prepare for surviving 2 or 3 attacks, most disable users only need to live one). If Perish Song is considered too strong and uncompetitive, Disable should definitely be.

The current meta is too well-suited for Disable.
With no mega stones, no z-moves, and not even elemental gems, choice items are king and Trick is near-unblockable. Both of these trends benefit Disable users: remember there is no easy way to boost damage outside of choice items (which auto-loses to things like scarf sab).

Disable restricts teambuilding.
Aside from Aroma Veil and Magic Bounce users (three to four viable users total), few pokemon can reliably counter trick sableye and encore sableye and aromatisse and dragapult. Because all disable users do share a giant list of mons they near-uniformly beat (passive walls, bulky offense, setup pokes), this means that any player wanting to use any of those archetypes must carefully tailor their other two slots to cover all viable users of Disable.

Disable forces haxxy mindgames.
Haban dracovish is typically a good counter to haban-less dragapult. However, if it protects on your outrage, it can then disable the move, removing your ability to kill it quickly and allowing it to emerge victorious. This pattern pops up in many other matchups as well, and comes down to 'can you use your winning move on the first turn they do not protect?'. It's a 50/50 that rewards haxxy behavior like double-protecting heavily.

Past gens were different.
Not only did previous generations lack aromatisse, dragapult, and sableye, they were also much heavier on z-crystals, mega stones, and magic coat users. Mega banette and mega alakazam, while annoying, are nowhere near as oppressive as what the meta is dealing with right now. The place Disable had in those generations cannot be an argument for letting it go unbanned.

A sableye ban won't fix this.
Already, aromatisse is rising rapidly in usage, with a set that's just as oppressive towards choice users and bulky mons as sableye's. Dragapult heavily punishes any kind of specs or band sets. Salazzle is set to raise in usage if sableye is banned, running a similar set that sacrifices some bulk for speed and offense. None of those may be problems to the same extent that sableye is, but they aren't any less uncompetitive, and they'll still decimate bulky archetypes.


I hope that the 1v1 community will consider this alternative to a simple sableye ban. Disable is already troublesome, and if future games or updates grant it new abusers (when Home drops, perhaps ninetales-alola?) I could see it getting out of hand entirely. Better to nip this development in the bud (getting rid of the problematic sableye sets we all want banned in the process) than have to suspect every new user of the move.
 
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As we all know, there's been talk of banning sableye. I like this idea, and would definitely not be sad to see sab go. However, I'd argue that a different ban, which better addresses the real issue, would be preferable.

I suggest we suspect Disable.

Disable is a move that inherently leads to uncompetitive sets, 50/50 mindgames, and centralization of the metagame. Sableye is the biggest offender, thanks to Prankster, a good typing, and a great movepool, but Dragapult, Aromatisse and Salazzle are all great users as well.

There are three main types of disable abusers right now.

The first uses trick, a choice scarf, and Disable, with Fling as a backup option against other choice users. Sableye is the only mon capable of pulling off this set, which plays by the following rules:
-Everything that uses a choice item and cannot OHKO loses.
-Otherwise, everything that can't OHKO without its item loses.


The second type of Disable abuser uses encore, disable, and some way to go first (prankster, trick room, high speed). Aromatisse and sableye are best at pulling off this set, and salazzle as a small niche doing the same thing. It operates under the following rules:
-Everything that moves first and can't 2HKO loses.
-Everything that doesn't move first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that moves first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that doesn't move first loses.
-Everything that needs a specific move to win, and can't outspeed, is forced into mindgames.


Finally, there's a third type of Disable users, which do not force the opponent into a move but instead rely solely on Disable itself. Dragapult is the only pokemon that embodies this niche currently. Matchups are decided as follows:
-Everything with a choice item that moves first and can't OHKO loses.
-Everything with a choice item that doesn't move first loses.
-Everything that needs a specific move to win, and can't outspeed, is forced into mindgames.


There are exceptions here, of course! Aroma Veil users (all two of them) are immune to Disable. A few mons can barely deal enough damage with struggle to win even after losing the ability to use their moves. However, these are the exception rather than the rule. In general, those rules dictate the matchups that a disable user can or cannot win, and if we consider them it must be apparent that this applies to dozens of highly diverse mons with highly diverse typings and roles.

Is Disable overpowered? I think so; let me make my arguments why.

Perish Song is less problematic but still banworthy.
Perish Song has been banned for years from all generations of 1v1, for being both overpowered and uncompetitive, invalidating entire archetypes, and generally not being worth using even with each individual mon that gets it being a bit weaksauce.

Disable? Disable is worse. It's much harder to counter with strong choiced attacks (and in the case of sableye, impossible), it doesn't result in auto-losses against extremely slow mons, it generally requires its users to tank fewer hits (a perish song user should prepare for surviving 2 or 3 attacks, most disable users only need to live one). If Perish Song is considered too strong and uncompetitive, Disable should definitely be.

The current meta is too well-suited for Disable.
With no mega stones, no z-moves, and not even elemental gems, choice items are king and Trick is near-unblockable. Both of these trends benefit Disable users in multiple ways: there is no easy way to boost damage outside of choice items (which auto-loses to things like scarf sab) and

Disable restricts teambuilding.
Aside from Aroma Veil and Magic Bounce users (three to four viable users total), few pokemon can reliably counter trick sableye and encore sableye and aromatisse and dragapult. Because all disable users do share a giant list of mons they near-uniformly beat (passive walls, bulky offense, setup pokes), this means that any player wanting to use any of those archetypes must carefully tailor their other two slots to cover all viable users of Disable.

Disable forces haxxy mindgames.
Haban dracovish is typically a good counter to haban-less dragapult. However, if it protects on your outrage, it can then disable the move, removing your ability to kill it quickly and allowing it to emerge victorious. This pattern pops up in many other matchups as well, and comes down to 'can you use your winning move on the first turn they do not protect?'. It's a 50/50 that rewards haxxy behavior like double-protecting heavily.

Past gens were different.
Not only did previous generations lack aromatisse, dragapult, and sableye, they were also much heavier on z-crystals, mega stones, and magic coat users. Mega banette and mega alakazam, while annoying, are nowhere near as oppressive as what the meta is dealing with right now. The place Disable had in those generations cannot be an argument for letting it go unbanned.

A sableye ban won't fix this.
Already, aromatisse is rising rapidly in usage, with a set that's just as oppressive towards choice users and bulky mons as sableye's. Dragapult heavily punishes any kind of specs or band sets. Salazzle is set to raise in usage if sableye is banned, running a similar set that sacrifices some bulk for speed and offense. None of those may be problems to the same extent that sableye is, but they aren't any less uncompetitive, and they'll still decimate bulky archetypes.


I hope that the 1v1 community will consider this alternative to a simple sableye ban. Disable is already troublesome, and if future games or updates grant it new abusers (when Home drops, perhaps ninetales-alola?) I could see it getting out of hand entirely. Better to nip this development in the bud (getting rid of the problematic sableye sets we all want banned in the process) than have to suspect every new user of the move.
I understand your reasoning and agree mostly, but I think Disable's superiority is partly caused by the Mew meta, as many "counters" to Mew rely on powerful choice moves predominantly. Omitting this dependency from the metagame makes countering Sabeleye a matter of having more than one move which can do damage. This also means defensive utility will come back into vogue, and tanking strong hits from other abusers of Disable can be prepared for. Not to mention most scarfers can outspeed common threats such as Dragapult, as Dragapult can't run a choice item to use Disable. The sad truth is that Disable is only completely overpowered in the hands of Sabeleye (imo) and that other abusers of the move can be easily countered. While I would rather Sabeleye be in a more healthy state in the meta game, the truth ends up being that banning Disable is a complex ban. Sabeleye as a whole should be banned if anything, and I don't think we should suspect Sabeleye until Mew is gone and the meta changes.
 
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I understand your reasoning and agree mostly, but I think Disable's superiority is partly caused by the Mew meta, as many "counters" to Mew rely on powerful choice moves predominantly. Omitting this dependency from the metagame makes countering Sabeleye a matter of having more than one move which can do damage. This also means defensive utility will come back into vogue, and tanking strong hits from other abusers of Disable can be prepared for. Not to mention most scarfers can outspeed common threats such as Dragapult, as Dragapult can't run a choice item to use Disable. The sad truth is that Disable is only completely overpowered in the hands of Sabeleye (imo) and that other abusers of the move can be easily countered. While I would rather Sabeleye be in a more healthy state in the meta game, the truth ends up being that banning Disable is a complex ban. Sabeleye as a whole should be banned if anything, and I don't think we should suspect Sabeleye until Mew is gone and the meta changes.
I think you're underestimating the threat posed by aromatisse, whose default set I'd consider more problematic than sableye's encore set (sableye is still worse overall because it also gets trick-scarf though). Aromatisse can beat nearly every defensive pokemon, while having a great typing (if necessary with babiri berry to counter most steels) and amazing bulk. Additionally, if mew doesn't get banned (something that a surprising amount of the council seems to be open to), it'll be able to capitalize on the prevalent choice users just as easily.

Also, in what way is banning Disable a 'complex ban'? It's a single move, not the combination of a move and something else. It's no different than banning accuracy-lowering moves, Minimize, Perish Song, or OHKO-moves.
 
I think you're underestimating the threat posed by aromatisse, whose default set I'd consider more problematic than sableye's encore set (sableye is still worse overall because it also gets trick-scarf though). Aromatisse can beat nearly every defensive pokemon, while having a great typing (if necessary with babiri berry to counter most steels) and amazing bulk. Additionally, if mew doesn't get banned (something that a surprising amount of the council seems to be open to), it'll be able to capitalize on the prevalent choice users just as easily.

Also, in what way is banning Disable a 'complex ban'? It's a single move, not the combination of a move and something else. It's no different than banning accuracy-lowering moves, Minimize, Perish Song, or OHKO-moves.
The reason I call it a complex ban is because I think that Prankster is what makes Disable so overpowered. If you run a priority move then Aromatisse can't disable the move it wants to, and it can be stalled effectively too. Aromatisse is reliant on the opponent being banded, and getting a trick room off if the opponent is faster (which is likely). This means that it needs to survive a hit, get an encore or trick room off, and hope the opponent lacks priority. Draining Kiss and items are also the only forms of recovery it can run. Meanwhile, Sabeleye has access to Taunt, and as has Prankster Recover which can allow it to live an opponent's attack after a trick, and then Disable. The only advantage that Aromatisse holds is that it's unexpected and beats Dark types.

I'd say that Disable is only uncompetitive on Sabeleye, as Sabeleye can abuse it to the fullest, while Aromatisse also has issues surviving more than a few attacks, and also loses to much of the non-banded meta. I think it's good, but definitely not Sabeleye levels of good. Maybe I'm underestimating Disable, but I think only Sabeleye is to blame for it's prominence.
 
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zio

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I think you're underestimating the threat posed by aromatisse, whose default set I'd consider more problematic than sableye's encore set (sableye is still worse overall because it also gets trick-scarf though). Aromatisse can beat nearly every defensive pokemon, while having a great typing (if necessary with babiri berry to counter most steels) and amazing bulk. Additionally, if mew doesn't get banned (something that a surprising amount of the council seems to be open to), it'll be able to capitalize on the prevalent choice users just as easily.

Also, in what way is banning Disable a 'complex ban'? It's a single move, not the combination of a move and something else. It's no different than banning accuracy-lowering moves, Minimize, Perish Song, or OHKO-moves.
By no means is Aromatisse or Disable broken enough to warrant a specific ban. The only reason Disable is an issue currently is because of Sableye. No other mon yet discovered abuses Disable nearly as well as Sableye does. I also really don't follow the logic for Aromatisse either. After both using it and running into it with 2/3 choice'd teams I really don't think it's an issue. Sure, it is really strong at countering choice sets however it really lacks a broken niche outside of that. It is 2hkod by a solid amount of things and dropping a pinch berry for a weakness berry makes you lose way more matchups than you win with the new berry. Aromatisse's spike in usage was due to Joker1v1's post on the VR and the subsequent copying of the set on the ladder. It has definitely proven itself as viable however I really don't think it has the same centralizing nature as Sableye or Mew. Maybe this will change after one or the other is gone but right now Aromatisse's lack of versatility holds it back. Imo, it is very overhyped.
Complex Bans
A complex ban is a misleading term. It doesn't actually refer to how complicated it is to understand, it refers to how specific the ban is. In this case, one move is deemed too complex as it affects too many mons, not a small group or single mon. Even ignoring precedent, Disable is not the problem at large. I guarantee if 1v1 was to ban Disable Sabeleye would simply just switch to using Torment. While obviously not nearly as effective it would basically do the same thing however now only the Protect sets would be consistent.
Previous Banned Moves
Precedent #1: Move encourages luck to a degree deemed uncompetitive. Both evasion and OHKO easily qualify. Evasion can very easily spiral out of control leading to an unkillable monster that can beat usual check purely through luck which has a decent enough chance of happening. A 30% chance to suddenly OHKO anything is complete BS. Why think when I can just send out Haxorous and use Guillotine?
Precedent #2: Move breaks meta to such a degree that it becomes the win-con for a vast majority of matches. A meta with Perish Song becomes stopping Perish Song or Perish Song yourself. Any other sets lose to Perish Song. It is not healthy to have a move that invalidates every mon that lacks it or a tool to stop it. Perish Song is not hard to get off as Protect exists as well as plenty of ways to recover health.
Does Disable meet either of these precedents? No. There is no factor of luck and Disable is only a problem on Sableye. So if it meets neither precedent does it establish its own? No. It is a move with 2 viable users(that I know of) and only one is effective at capitalizing on it to a banworthy degree. I feel like those precedents are a good starting point for future move bans as well.
BAN SABLEYE
Sableye is an issue due to it having priority Encore, Disable, Trick and recover. That combination of moves and Prankster is what leads to it being a massive issue. Team building is so heavily limited as Sableye's Dark/Ghost typing is very hard to OHKO meaning teams must run a reliable check which is almost always a non-choiced fairy or dark type. It invalidating choice users is a side effect of its prevalence, many sets have existed in the past any many in the future will do the same. Sableye can beat an outrageous amount of things with its Trick set and its Protect set also has the potential to beat Taunt users and fairies with Mental Herb and Roseli Berry. I can't run a Syvleon w/o Quick Attack in good faith believing it will beat a Sableye which to me is insane. I believe it has similar criteria to the Tapu Koko and Mimikyu bans of last gen. The versatility to use their intricately broken core. Lighting Surge insured great power with minimal investment in addition to its decent movepool and excellent utility made Tapu Koko broken. Disguise gave Mimikyu a free turn which made it both a great speed trapper and offensive menace with the potential to beat checks with offensive sets and twave curse sets. Sableye has access to both Encore and Disable and despite its lackluster bulk it has Prankster allowing it to fully invest in bulk being able to heal w/ Recover meaning a vast majority of things lose to it if the Sableye user doesn't have a stroke. Sableye's absurd strength is found in its versatility of very viable sets. Unlike most lures Sableye still mostly beats things it usually does with sets like Scarf Trick. I think the meta under Sableye's tyranny is very boring leaving most team structures similar (Dark type+strong sturdy mon or fighting mon+Mew/Sableye) if they don't want to risk losing to the stupid gem thing. Wasting time splitting hairs on banning things like Disable or Trick simply drags out the process and muddies the waters. Sableye should be banned, Disable should remain unbanned.
 
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Rosa

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Since we didn't reach 135 submissions by 5:30 PM like I posted, the 1v1 2019 Community Poll results shall be released early!

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You've just been gifted 1,000,000 Kyubits! What will you do with them?
https://pastebin.com/raw/kqWszL3v

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28.5%: 2v2
16.2%: Monotype
14.6%: UU
10%: AAA
8.5%: Type Challenge
6.9%: Ubers
5.4%: AG
5.4%: LC
2.3%: CAP
2.3%: STABmons
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Best teambuilder of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/8gVTWUER
1. Osra - 12
2. tie between 5luke AllFourtyOne dom Nalei - 6
Honorable mentions:
7 different people voting "me" (didn't affect results)

Most influential player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/A6wDES42
1. Elo Bandit - 17
2. justrav - 10
3. dom - 8

Most gimmicky player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/5Kec2EsK
1. XinosXinos (Yech E) - 24
2. 5luke - 16
3. tie between Elo Bandit and no response - 6

Luckiest player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/BiaCKT7x
1. Maki's Fox - 14
2. tie between Jamez155 and Robyn - 5
3. SolarflareRo - 4
Honorable mention:
10 different people voting for themselves (did affect results)
8 votes for no response

Most intimidating player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/DMCxRUYn
1. tie between ggopw and XSTATIC COLD - 8
2. tie between ryyjyywyy SolarflareRo "me" and no response - 5
3. Maki's Fox - 4

Best new player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/rA73Mv3Z
1. LittleRunnerXC - 31
2. 187 Fan - 6
3. Squirtell 1v1 - 5
Honorable mention:
8 votes for no response

Best overall player of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/vVamCh7G
1. Squirtell 1v1 - 19
2. ggopw - 12
3. dom - 5

Biggest rivalry of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/6TXBKFyY
1. SolarflareRo - 4

Nicest user of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/sdmUKSeF
1. LittleRunnerXC - 14
2. tie between Osra SolarflareRo Squirtell 1v1 and no response - 5
3. Maki's Fox - 4

Meanest user of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/pPT1xHFf
1. tie between dom and XSTATIC COLD - 9
2. SolarflareRo - 7
3. ryyjyywyy - 6

Most clever user of 2019
https://pastebin.com/raw/HbUwYeZ3
1. Nobody - 10
2. "me" - 7
3. 5luke - 6

Cutest user of 2019
https://pokepast.es/4cec63900c38a6a7 (using pokepastes from here on because APPARENTLY you can only make 10 pastebins per 24 hours)
1. Nobody - 7
2. tie between DEG and SolarflareRo - 6
3. Waylaid - 5

Most missed user of 2019
https://pokepast.es/e4f1d29c2a0bf7d1
1. DEG - 10
2. Baleblaze - 8
3. Shyom - 5

Overall best user of 2019
https://pokepast.es/8fdba8a44b8ea3e4
1. Osra - 9
2. Squirtell 1v1 - 8
3. tie between LittleRunnerXC and SolarflareRo - 4
Honorable mention:
nobody - 9
"me" - 5

Best ship of 2019 (bonus points for providing a reason why)
https://pokepast.es/3040c2090234c281
1. Boat (phiwings99) - 10 - literally best ship
2. ggopw and toadandhishaxx- 7
3. Lkjchjdhbjidcgjhd and plant based - 5

With 2019 behind us, let's keep striving to make each year the best we can!
 
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