Metagame 1v1 Metagame Discussion

Le Creme Brule

Formerly AllFourtyOne
What item to run on Crustle?

So, Crustle I find to be an interesting Pokemon in SWSH. It is obviously very, very good, but with the fall of Z-moves and the depower creep, the specific item that should be run is a bit unclear. In ORAS, I used to run Choice Band Crustle, which usually got the job done, having a stronger matchup against Pokemon like Aegislash, but was kind of simple and easy to work around. Now, in SWSH, I'm running Mental Herb, which actually seems to be very effective, countering Taunt/Encore/Disable that you're likely to encounter against Mew, Corsola-G, and Ttar.

However, I feel like that Crustle has the capability to run basically anything it wants to; does anyone else have any techs crustle can do which is enabled by certain items?
I think it’s best items are Mental Herb, Hard Stone, and Salac Berry, as these each give it different matchups.
 
What item to run on Crustle?

So, Crustle I find to be an interesting Pokemon in SWSH. It is obviously very, very good, but with the fall of Z-moves and the depower creep, the specific item that should be run is a bit unclear. In ORAS, I used to run Choice Band Crustle, which usually got the job done, having a stronger matchup against Pokemon like Aegislash, but was kind of simple and easy to work around. Now, in SWSH, I'm running Mental Herb, which actually seems to be very effective, countering Taunt/Encore/Disable that you're likely to encounter against Mew, Corsola-G, and Ttar.

However, I feel like that Crustle has the capability to run basically anything it wants to; does anyone else have any techs crustle can do which is enabled by certain items?
Salac is pretty cool for helping against scarf mons that outspeed it even after boosts. Babiri(steel berry) helps against invested Exca or CB Haxorous.
Rather than that the best are band and herb. One of the cooler things about Crustle is that it really doesn’t need an item to succeed. I would like to test CB more, I think it’s pretty cool but with Sub+Disable Pult rising in usage it may not be great.
One thing I usually do have an issue w/ is coverage. Rock Blast is very nice for Kyu but I’m sacrificing EQ or X-Scissor for it. Protect is nice for the rare Fake Out and playing against Trick mons. Really though Crustle can be tailored however you need it.
 
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Salac is pretty cool for helping against scarf mons that outspeed it even after boosts. Babiri(steel berry) helps against invested Exca or CB Haxorous.
Rather than that the best are band and herb. One of the cooler things about Crustle is that it really doesn’t need an item to succeed. I would like to test CB more, I think it’s pretty cool but with Sub+Disable Pult rising in usage it may not be great.
One thing I usually do have an issue w/ is coverage. Rock Blast is very nice for Kyu but I’m sacrificing EQ or X-Scissor for it. Protect is nice for the rare Fake Out and playing against Trick mons. Really though Crustle can be tailored however you need it.
Babiri berry doesn't help a lot vs band haxorus, because any smart player will be clicking outrage. Unless you also run over a hundred defensive EVs (probably not worth it for one rare matchup), it's not going to make a difference.
 

Alakazam

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Babiri berry doesn't help a lot vs band haxorus, because any smart player will be clicking outrage. Unless you also run over a hundred defensive EVs (probably not worth it for one rare matchup), it's not going to make a difference.
well, eving for LO mimikyu is a good tech for crustle, since they are super common on ladder, and that will also give enough bulk for haxorus

Crustle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 104 HP / 108 Atk / 44 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter

evs i run, haven't found a good purpose for jolly yet
 
well, eving for LO mimikyu is a good tech for crustle, since they are super common on ladder, and that will also give enough bulk for haxorus

Crustle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 104 HP / 108 Atk / 44 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rock Wrecker
- Rock Blast
- Counter

evs i run, haven't found a good purpose for jolly yet
I feel like Choice Band Mimikyu is better, if you actually want to run the offensive set. You're mostly not going to click more than one move in most matchups (you do give up shadow sneak, but the amazing coverage mimi gets doesn't make this a waste). Life Orb is way more common though, so your EVs work

Personally, I'd run Mental Herb to avoid taunt/encore 50/50s (and to beat the one sucker on ladder who runs Attract)

Rocky Helmet is a cool thing I wanted to experiment with, since you beat sawk with it
Salac Berry is cool, might decide to run it over Mental Herb in the future, once I take not of what matchups it wins
Liechi Berry is something I tried to use for a while, not sure how useful but it gives you extra attack against super bulky mons
 
What item to run on Crustle?

So, Crustle I find to be an interesting Pokemon in SWSH. It is obviously very, very good, but with the fall of Z-moves and the depower creep, the specific item that should be run is a bit unclear. In ORAS, I used to run Choice Band Crustle, which usually got the job done, having a stronger matchup against Pokemon like Aegislash, but was kind of simple and easy to work around. Now, in SWSH, I'm running Mental Herb, which actually seems to be very effective, countering Taunt/Encore/Disable that you're likely to encounter against Mew, Corsola-G, and Ttar.

However, I feel like that Crustle has the capability to run basically anything it wants to; does anyone else have any techs crustle can do which is enabled by certain items?
I like oran berry :>
though i've had some niche wins with weakness policy
 
run salac to beat choiced dragapults
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crustle: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

pqs

u rly thought
New Pokemon of Interest

Since Pokemon Home is coming out soon™, and we've had a lot of talk in the 1v1 Discord about these, I'd like to mention some Pokemon that may fare well in the meta or might even be banned.

These might be good

:celebi: - With Mew almost certainly being gone by the time Home releases, Celebi may take its place as a base 100 in-every-stat Pokemon, though the Grass-type may hold it back. I'm thinking of maybe a Leech Seed or a Choice Specs set could work.

:cobalion: :terrakion: :virizion: - All three Swords of Justice Pokemon are coming out, I'm thinking best to worst would be Terrakion, Cobalion, and then Virizion. Most likely they would run either a Choice Band or Choice Scarf set.

:jirachi: - No.

:keldeo: - Keldeo might be good in this meta, its Speed stat is above 100, along with a decent Special Attack and an interesting typing of Water- and Fighting-. It will probably run something like a Choice Specs set for extra power while still maintaining some speed.

:melmetal: - Seems like Mega Metagross 2.0, with its HP and Special Defense switched around. I'm pretty sure Pokesartoolcay made a set or theorymon for it or something.

:primarina: - It seems only decent without its signature Primarinium Z, but who knows, Choice Specs might be good.

:zeraora: - Also lost its Z move, but it can still run other viable sets like what it had in generation 7 like Choice Band and Life Orb.

These will probably be quickbanned

:kyurem-black: :kyurem-white: :lunala: :mewtwo: :necrozma-dawn-wings: :necrozma-dusk-mane: :reshiram: :solgaleo: :zekrom: - Do I need to explain these?

I have no idea what I want to do with this

:marshadow: - We had a
big argument over Discord about this, and some are leaning on both unban and ban, so we'll just have to see what happens to the metagame when this comes out.
 
:celebi: - With Mew almost certainly being gone by the time Home releases, Celebi may take its place as a base 100 in-every-stat Pokemon, though the Grass-type may hold it back. I'm thinking of maybe a Leech Seed or a Choice Specs set could work.
Good post. I really doubt Celebi will good. Its typing is pretty bad and it really doesn’t have that great a movepool.

Moving on, an interesting topic to me is what will be the best mon after mew is gone, and what will rise?
Mew is going to banned in all likeliness and it’s really going to shake things up. Right now the meta is really focused around Mew in teambuilding. It has really prevented some mons from being as good as they could’ve, as well as giving a niche to mons that otherwise lack one.
I believe these will be the best mons after Mew’s ban
58678586-3546-4FC7-A04B-39D65B988356.gif

Mimikyu is easily the best contender for best mon after Mew is gone. Even with the evil Mew+Kyu core gone Mimikyu is still able to effectively deal w/ a large portion of the tier. Curse and LO are standouts but more uncommon sets such as Scarf see usage expanding Kyu’s unpredictable nature and just adding to an already massive list of mons it can beat. It may actually be hurt by Mew’s ban as Mew is an excellent partner however I believe Kyu doesn’t use Mew as a crutch and it will continue to be strong as all hell even w/o Mew.
354E9FF8-127A-4357-A6CA-B5A360547A71.gif

Sylveon looks scary as hell after Mew. Sylveon struggled to beat Mew often coming down to 50/50s. Its strengths are apparent. Pixalate makes it insanely strong and it has good bulk backed up w/ Yawn. It is an incredibly strong mon and I see it as a contender for one of the best. It may be slightly under Kyu but I think it will be a prevalent force in the meta.
Mons I don’t see being defining
41DEA64A-DC26-492C-A132-A66E010019D4.jpeg

Dragapult has been overhyped and while it has fallen in popularity I still feel the need to trash it. It has mediocre attacking stats w/o a strong trait. All sets except for Haban and Scarf really suffer from how common 95+ spd scarfers are. It seems way better on paper than it practice. It fulfills its role but its role is nothing extraordinary.
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Darm-Galar is insanely strong however it falls short in the speed and variety department. Sturdy mons and faster scarfers are very prevalent and even w/ its Zen Endure set it has common enough checks that I wouldn’t consider it a top mon.
Mons that benefit from Mew’s departure
82CF2C1F-D870-49A3-A552-9238B309EB34.gif

Mew is an annoyance to Aegislash. It usually falls just short of killing, it can kill but it’s not reliable. Beyond that, Mew is holding a lot of physical attackers back and once they become more popular Aegislash can profit greatly. Aegislash effectively shuts down a lot of physical attackers and various other things such as Sylveon. I can see Aegislash becoming a very good mon in the near future.
A828DBE0-3595-44FE-B165-46AB1D8B658E.png
1319B347-690C-404F-A2CC-D15C6F7CD7D9.png
C1F2FBA6-46EA-4FB0-B667-B43145E79EA7.png
97D3C411-D563-4F65-B191-1F3CE21A1DF8.png

Psychical attackers will appreciate the departure of Mew quite a bit. Choice Mew sets are a massive hassle and even Imprison can best some of them with proper play and set. The departure of Mew will allow these mons to be much more flexible and go back to being some of the strongest things in the meta.
L to cheese mons
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Whimsi has declining usefulness because of the rise Sylveon, multi-hit moves, and poison coverage. It is stretched thin as it really only has one moveslot open to be changed but at least it can check Mew, which is not even reliable. Its already lacking niche will be demoted even further.
DE2A88B6-07E2-49AE-9948-2EC4EFEC4ABF.jpeg

Copycat will go from middling use to none at all. RIP
1EB4AD56-D431-43B8-B8D3-AB0D7CFF7940.png

A huge draw of Trick is screwing over Mew. While it’s still a good 4th slot for Rotom and Togekiss dedicated Trick mons like Grimmsnarl will most likely fall off in usage.

I think the upcoming meta will be interesting. I find the topic interesting so I encourage discussion. Thanks for reading.
 
With the ban of Mew, one problematic force continues to gain traction in the metagame:

:ss/mimikyu:
Mimikyu.
From those who remember it for the last generation, Mimikyu was a threat ultimately banned due to its versatility and sheer strength in its sets, particularly its curse set. Now with Mew banned, it feels poised to do the same thing, although with different sets. It has consistently show great usage, along with versatility, with new sets and moves such as Choice Scarf and Phantom Force, respectively. I don't feel at this point that writing a large piece on this pokemon, in particular, is the best thing with a focus on pl and the fact that I'm a bad writer so I'd like to hear all your thoughts on it.

As always. thanks for reading and have a nice day. I hope we can reach somewhat of a conclusion, and discuss meaningfully to better the metagame as a whole.
 
With the ban of Mew, one problematic force continues to gain traction in the metagame:

:ss/mimikyu:
Mimikyu.
From those who remember it for the last generation, Mimikyu was a threat ultimately banned due to its versatility and sheer strength in its sets, particularly its curse set. Now with Mew banned, it feels poised to do the same thing, although with different sets. It has consistently show great usage, along with versatility, with new sets and moves such as Choice Scarf and Phantom Force, respectively. I don't feel at this point that writing a large piece on this pokemon, in particular, is the best thing with a focus on pl and the fact that I'm a bad writer so I'd like to hear all your thoughts on it.

As always. thanks for reading and have a nice day. I hope we can reach somewhat of a conclusion, and discuss meaningfully to better the metagame as a whole.
I think it's worthy of a ban. It presents all the problems Mew had which was strong diversity in sets in addition to an unique speed trap set. Even ignoring precedent this thing is very unhealthy for the meta. Disguise and its great movepool means that it can deal with a majority of the metagame. Notable exceptions are Exca, Togedemaru, and more defensively inclined Crustle w/ rock blast. Other checks of course exist however they are often specifically tailored to Mimikyu, Mimikyu has the potential to run a counter set, or is unreliable (Togekiss and Haxorous.)

Mimikyu is not a healthy presence it has a choke hold on 1v1 and the new gen has been kinder than at first glance. The Disguise nerf doesn’t really matter as Phantom Force patches up any issues for the Curse set.
 
With the ban of Mew, one problematic force continues to gain traction in the metagame:

:ss/mimikyu:
Mimikyu.
From those who remember it for the last generation, Mimikyu was a threat ultimately banned due to its versatility and sheer strength in its sets, particularly its curse set. Now with Mew banned, it feels poised to do the same thing, although with different sets. It has consistently show great usage, along with versatility, with new sets and moves such as Choice Scarf and Phantom Force, respectively. I don't feel at this point that writing a large piece on this pokemon, in particular, is the best thing with a focus on pl and the fact that I'm a bad writer so I'd like to hear all your thoughts on it.

As always. thanks for reading and have a nice day. I hope we can reach somewhat of a conclusion, and discuss meaningfully to better the metagame as a whole.
I'm voting in favor of a suspect, at the very least. The set is quite literally what it was in gen7 except there are very few things that actually outspeed it now. It doesn't get z curse but that still doesn't matter as phantom force now patches up for the one thing z curse was useful for. Gen8 also lacks mons that make use of moves like Rock Tomb and Flame Charge, which were present in the previous gen. In addition, it uses its Choice Band and Choice Scarf set that would be at least A tier just by themselves, and that are even better than the gen7 offensive counterpart. The Pokemon in itself has a Godlike matchup spread against the highest tier of the VR without even needing to run both sets, and the things it beats with both sets are so diverse that it's almost impossible to counter it reliably.

Mimikyu severely limits teambuilding in a metagame where 1 of 3 mons has to be Excadrill or an otherwise unviable mon just to beat Mimi, and despite how much I like the mon, I deem it Suspect worthy.

Especially since probably the biggest tournament of the year is about to start, I wouldn't want the SwSh metagame to be ruined by the presence of Mimikyu

like & share to spread awareness
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
Because mimi beats so many of these pokemon, one is practically forced to run either haxorus or excadrill to consistently beat mimikyu and be viable in a team. Individuals must quite literally build around mimikyu. Excadrill is quite literally useful for mimi, mew, aegi, sylveon, and tyranitar, but is the 2nd most used pokemon in the tier. Coincidentally, mimi beats these same threats, and thus outclasses excadrill, meaning that one would realistically only use excadrill to beat mimikyu.
If Mimikyu had only two hard counters, you would be losing to it a lot more and be screaming and whining loudly for an insta-quickban right now. "One is practically forced to run either Haxorus or Excadrill" is not true; there are many other hard counters.

Excadrill beats some Pokemon that Mimikyu doesn't. This is suspicious from the poster stating only five threats that both Pokemon beat. With the rise of Yawn Sylveon and Expert Belt Tyranitar, Excadrill is more consistent at beating the two than Mimikyu. Excadrill also beats Crustle, Whimsicott, Togekiss, Duraludon, Galarian Weezing, Aromatisse, Milotic, and stall Rotoms, which Life Orb Mimikyu can't. Crustle and Whimsicott in particular cannot be consistently beaten by any other Mimikyu set.

Mimikyu Matchups List
It's important to know what beats Mimikyu. Here is a table that sums up Mimikyu's matchups against S to B-rank threats. If any errors are found, they will be corrected.
W win
L lose
M mind games (Note: Mindgames that are overly lopsided are counted as W or L.)
R RNG-dependent (Note: RNG-dependent matchups that are overly lopsided are counted as W or L.)
These are the sets used as definitions:
Mimikyu @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
Mimikyu @ Salac Berry
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Protect
- Substitute
- Curse
Mimikyu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Shadow Claw
- Wood Hammer
- Trick
Pokemon (Set)VR Rankingvs LO Mimivs Curse Mimivs Scarf Mimi
Mimikyu (Life Orb)S-RWL
Mimikyu (Curse)S-LR/ML
Mimikyu (Choice Scarf)S-WWR
Galarian Darmanitan S-LLL
Dragapult S-LRL
Dracovish A+LLL
Sylveon (Specs/Quick Attack)A+LLW
Sylveon (any other set)A+LLW
Galarian CorsolaAMML
AegislashA-MML
CorviknightA-WWW
CrustleA-WWW
HaxorusA-WWW
SawkA-LLL
WhimsicottA-WWW
ArcanineB+WMSD (Burn Up loses, Flamethrower wins)
ExcadrillB+WWW
HydreigonB+LWL
TogekissB+WWL
Tyranitar (Expert Belt/Choice Scarf)B+WWL
Tyranitar (any other set)B+LWL
BewearBWLW
ChandelureBLLL
Cinderace (Taunt)BWWW
Cinderace (non-Taunt)BWLW
DracozoltBLLL
DuraludonBWLW
FerrothornBWMW
Golisopod (Aqua Jet)BWWW
Golisopod (no Aqua Jet)BWLW
Mandibuzz (Roseli Berry)BWWL
Mandibuzz (other sets with Taunt)BLWL
Mandibuzz (any other set)BLLL
RhyperiorBWWW
Snorlax (Choice Band)BWLW
Galarian WeezingBWLW
AromatisseB-WLW
ConkeldurrB-LLL
Durant (Choice Band)B-WLW
Durant (Choice Scarf)B-WWW
GastrodonB-WWL
GoodraB-LLL
GrimmsnarlB-LWL
MiloticB-WWL
Rotom-H (stall)B-WMW
Rotom-H (Choice Scarf)B-LWL
Rotom-H (Choice Specs)B-LLL
Pokemon that counter Mimikyu with varying consistencies (* will be next to an R matchup; ^ will be next to an M matchup; ' will be next to an SD matchup):
  • Mimikyu (Choice Scarf)*
  • Corviknight
  • Crustle
  • Haxorus
  • Whimsicott
  • Arcanine^'
  • Excadrill
  • Cinderace (Taunt)
  • Ferrothorn^
  • Golisopod (Aqua Jet)
  • Rhyperior
  • Durant (Choice Scarf)
  • Rotom-H (stall)^
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
Pokemon Home Sets

Here are some sets I built for the release of Pokemon Home.

Incineroar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 168 Atk / 224 Def / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat
- Taunt
- Fake Out

Taunt is useful for Corviknight and Galarian Corsola. Chople Berry + Fake Out techs Sawk. Outspeeding Mandibuzz is useless nowadays since they all run lots of Speed. Defenses are for Jolly Band Excadrill and Timid Specs Dragapult. Speed is for Corviknight.

Primarina @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 128 HP / 244 Def / 76 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sparkling Aria
- Moonblast
- Aqua Jet
- Substitute

This mirrors the Waterium Z set of Generation 7. Aqua Jet helps with Crustle and Sawk. Substitute allows Primarina to get into Torrent and Petaya range. Defensive investment is for Band Haxorus, but Band Darm's Giga Impact will destroy it
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Darmanitan-Galar Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 48 HP / 188 SpA / 20 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Focus Blast

Pretty simple. Icy Wind for Dragapult and Scarf Haxorus. You want Focus Blast so that you can OHKO Dracovish. The max Speed investment is actually leftovers. 48 HP and 20 SpD are for Jolly Scarf GDarm Giga Impact and Timid Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor.

Well that's really what I'm motivated to EV right now, but I'll share more in the future.
 

Cantius

I COULD BE BANNED!
Moves Added with Pokemon Home

Moves likely to be on viable sets will be in bold.
S- Rank
:mimikyu: Toxic, Charge Beam, Psych Up, Infestation, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Last Resort, Spite, After You

A+ Rank
:Sylveon: Fairy Wind, Toxic, Double Team, Echoed Voice, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Laser Focus, Cut

A- Rank
:Aegislash: Toxic, Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Magnet Rise, Shock Wave, Spite, After You, Laser Focus, Rock Smash, Cut
:Crustle: Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Hone Claws, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Haxorus: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Dragon Tail, Swagger, Confide, Aqua Tail, Shock Wave, Hone Claws, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Sawk: Toxic, Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Dual Chop, Block, Knock Off, Pain Split, Focus Punch, Laser Focus, Power-up Punch, Strength
:Whimsicott: Toxic, Double Team, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Knock Off, Defog

B+ Rank
:Arcanine: Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Flame Charge, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Teleport, Reflect, Superpower, Laser Focus, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength, Mud-slap, Mimic, Curse, Dragon Breath, Skull Bash
:Excadrill: Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Swagger, Confide, Magnet Rise, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Hydreigon: Toxic, Roost, Double Team, Torment, Echoed Voice, Charge Beam, Psych Up, Dragon Tail, Swagger, Confide, Aqua Tail, Tailwind, Shock Wave, Spite, Defog, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength
:Togekiss: Toxic, Roost, Double Team, Echoed Voice, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Tailwind, Focus Punch, Sock Wave, Water Pulse, Endeavor, Defog, Laser Focus, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Pluck, Air Cutter, Mud-slap, Rollout, Twister, Headbutt
:Tyranitar: Roar, Toxic, Smack Down, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Torment, Rock Polish, Dragon Tail, Swagger, Confide, Block, Aqua Tail, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, Water Pulse, Spite, Hone Claws, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Cut, Strength, Fury Cutter, Mud-slap, Headbutt, Double-edge, Counter, Seismic Toss, Mimic, Dynamic Punch, Dragon Breath, Detect

B Rank
:Bewear: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Swagger, Confide, Wide Guard, Dual Chop, Role Play, Focus Punch
:Chandelure: Toxic, Double Team, Flame Charge, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Acid, Shock Wave, Spite, Laser Focus, Incinerate
:Ferrothorn: Rollout, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Rock Polish, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Worry Seed, Block, Magnet Rise, Endeavor, Hone Claws, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Golisopod: Toxic, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Psych Up, Frost Breath, Swagger, Confide, Dual Chop, Knock Off, Pain Split, Water Pulse, Endeavor, Laser Focus
:Mandibuzz: Fury Attack, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Torment, Psych Up, Swagger, Confide, Block, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Cut
:Rhyperior: Fury Attack, Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Dragon Tail, Swagger, Confide, Block, Aqua Tail, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, Spite, Endeavor, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Cut, Strength, Fury Cutter, Ancient Power, Mud-slap, Rollout, Headbutt
:Snorlax: Rollout, Toxic, Smack Down, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Reflect, Seismic Toss, Power-up Punch, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, Water Pulse, After You, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength, Mud-slap, Mimic, Dynamic Punch, Psych Up, Zap Cannon, Harden, Take Down, Bubble Beam, Water Gun, Submission, Skull Bash

B- Rank
:Aromatisse: Toxic, Double Team, Torment, Charge Beam, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Endeavor
:Conkeldurr: Smack Down, Toxic, Swagger, Confide, Force Palm, Block, Knock Off, Rock Smash, Strength
:Durant: Toxic (Entrainment Truant gimmick), Double Team, Aerial Ace, Rock Polish, Swagger, Confide, Endeavor (SubSwarm gimmick), Hone Claws, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Gastrodon: Toxic, Infestation, Swagger, Confide, Block, Pain Split, Rock Smash, Strength, String Shot, Headbutt
:Goodra: Toxic, Double Team, Dragon Tail, Infestation, Swagger, Confide, Acid Armor, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, Laser Focus, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength
:Milotic: Toxic, Psych Up, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Bind, Laser Focus, Mud-slap, Double-edge, Mimic
:Rotom-Heat: Toxic, Charge Beam, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Pain Split, Spite, Defog, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap

C+ Rank
:Bisharp: Toxic, Aerial Ace, Rock Polish, Swagger, Confide, Dual Chop, Magnet Rise, Knock Off, Role Play, Spite, Hone Claws, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Cut
:Diggersby: Toxic, Smack Down, Torment, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Last Resort, Knock Off, Focus Punch, Gastro Acid, Endeavor, Recycle, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Cut, Strength
:Gengar: Double Team, Torment, Explosion, Psych Up, Infestation, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Seismic Toss, Mega Drain, Knock Off, Role Play, Pain Split, Focus Punch, Laser Focus, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Strength, Double-edge, Counter, Mimic, Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Take Down, Submission, Skull Bash
:Rotom-Wash: Toxic, Charge Beam, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Pain Split, Spite, Defog, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap
:Silvally: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Flame Charge, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Last Resort, Tailwind, Defog, Laser Focus
:Steelix: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Torment, Explosion, Psych Up, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Aqua Tail, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength, Ancient Power, Mud-slap, Twister, Headbutt, Mimic
:Type-Null: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Flame Charge, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Last Resort

C Rank
:Cloyster: Toxic, Torment, Explosion, Frost Breath, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Teleport, Reflect, Double-edge, Mimic, Curse, Take Down
:Gardevoir: Toxic, Torment, Echoed Voice, Charge Beam, Psych Up, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Heal Bell, Pain Split, Shock Wave, Recycle, Laser Focus, Mud-slap, Headbutt, Double-edge, Mimic, Defense Curl
:Gyarados: Roar, Toxic, Torment, Dragon Tail, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Reflect, Water Pulse, Spite, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength, Double-edge, Mimic, Curse, Zap Cannon, Dragon Breath, Take Down, Bubble Beam, Water Gun, Skull Bash
:Ninetales: Toxic, Double Team, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Reflect, Covet, Role Play, Pain Split, Laser Focus, Double-ege, Mimic, Curse, Take Down, Skull Bash
:Reuniclus: Rollout, Toxic, Explosion, Psych Up, Infestation, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Magic Coat, Gravity, Knock Off, Role Play, Focus Punch, Shock Wave, After You, Laser Focus, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Strength
:Scrafty: Roar, Toxic, Smack Down, Double Team, Torment, Dragon Tail, Confide, Super Fang, Dual Chop, Knock Off, Spite, Incinerate, Rock Smash, Strength
:Togedemaru: Rollout, Toxic, Double Team, Charge Beam, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Super Fang, Gravity, Last Resort, Role Play, Shock Wave, After You, Endeavor
:Toxapex: Smack Down, Double Team, Frost Breath, Swagger, Confide, Covet, Magic Coat, Block, Knock Off, Pain Split, Water Pulse, Gastro Acid, Spite, After You
:Vaporeon: Roar, Toxic, Double Team, Echoed Voice, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Reflect, Aqua Tail, Heal Bell, Laser Focus, Rock Smash, Strength, Mimic, Mist, Bubble Beam, Skull Bash
:wishiwashi-school: Toxic, Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Covet

C- Rank
:Araquanid: Toxic, Frost Breath, Swagger, Confide, Aurora Beam, Magic Coat, Water Pulse, Laser Focus
:hitmonlee: Toxic, Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Headbutt, Seismic Toss, Covet, Knock Off, Role Play, Focus Punch, Laser Focus, Rock Smash, Power-up Punch, Strength, Sucker Punch, Mud-slap, Double-Edge, Mimic, Dynamic Punch, Curse, Detect, Take Down, Submission, Skull Bash
:Mudsdale: Toxic, Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Endeavor
:Pyukumuku: Quash, Psych Up, Confide, Block, Recycle
:Quagsire: Infestation, Swagger, Confide, Focus Punch, Water Pulse, Rock Smash, Strength, Mud-slap, Rollout, Headbutt, Double-edge, Seismic Toss, Mimic, Dynamic Punch, Defense Curl
:Umbreon: Toxic, Torment, Echoed Voice, Psych Up, Dream Eater, Swagger, Confide, Heal Bell, Spite, Laser Focus, Cut, Sucker Punch, Headbutt, Mimic, Zap Cannon, Sweet Scent

D Rank
:Drampa: Roar, Toxic, Roost, Double Team, Psych Up, Dragon Tail, Nature Power + Confide + Block + Tailwind + Shock Wave + Water Pulse + Endeavor + Defog
:Trevenant: Toxic, Double Team, Dream Eater, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Power-up Punch, Magic Coat, Block, Role Play, Pain Split, Worry Seed, Spite, Hone Claws, Rock Smash, Cut, Strength
:Tsareena: Toxic, Double Team, Nature Power, Confide, Feint, Covet, Knock Off, Worry Seed, Laser Focus
:vikavolt: Toxic, Roost, Double Team, Charge Beam, Swagger, Confide, Magnet Rise, Shock Wave, Laser Focus
Some thoughts on specific Pokemon:
:sawk: :togedemaru: With Pain Split/Endeavor/Toxic, FEAR has returned.
:type-null: Type: Null has Confide again. The old stall set is back.
:rhyperior: Haxorus and Tyranitar have Aqua Tail, which is no good for it. Plus lots of Pokemon like Aegislash and Excadrill get Magnet Rise. Lots of Pokemon that Rhyperior previously hard countered have moves to beat it.


this is what stood out to me
 

Le Creme Brule

Formerly AllFourtyOne
Many new Pokemon are hitting the scene with Pokemon home.

Auto QB tier - Zekrom, Dusk Mane, etc

Please QB tier - Kyurem-B, Marshadow

OP but maybe not QB worthy tier - Keldeo / Melmetal (S-A+)

Very epic tier - Zeraora, Necrozma, Jirachi, Terrakion, Primarina (A-B+) (edit: Kyurem-N)

Epic Tier - Incineroar, Coballion, Celebi (B-C+)

Unepic Tier - Virizion, Decidueye (C-UR)

This is my analysis of how the new additions will fit into the VR just based on a little bit of calcing. (Keldeo is busted) I think that Pokemon such as Conkeldurr who can beat stuff like Zera/Mel will be really good, and stuff like Specs Chandelure and Rotom forms will probably pick up to deal with stuff like Necrozma, Melmetal, and Celebi. I think most of these additions will become staples in the 1v1 metagame
 
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Lkjc

Formerly Lkjchjdhbjidcgjhd
Why Kyub should NOT be quickbanned:

The reason it was banned in gen 7 was that it could use z moves to be unpredictable and beat whatever it wanted. With the removal of Z moves, kyub is forced to use choice items and weakness berries, which is not possible to beat everything with.
Now I know you’re thinking “But now kyub gets dragon dance and physical ice stab!” And you’re right, but I’ll explain why you might be mistaken.

Dragon dance

Dragon dance wins kyub no matchups that it could previously win with scarf or band, and is forced to waste a turn of set up, which loses some matchups. You might try to use a weakness berry to get a free turn of dragon dance, but you can only cover one weakness, and Ice Dragon has many, many weaknesses. Dragon Dance is forced to choose what matchups it wants to win, whereas Choiced sets can win those matchups outright.

Icicle Spear

Icicle spear is just a bad move. There is a chance to have 50,75,100, and 125 base power. This might seem decent, but let’s look at what matchups require kyub to use icicle spear over outrage, which is a much betterstab move for kyub.

Whimsicott
Virizion

That’s it. That’s all the matchups icicle spear helps with, and whimsicott loses to iron head sets anyway if not babri. Fusion bolt is better for flying types, and outrage is better for dragon types. Iron head is a good option over icicle spear because it gives kyub the chance to contend with fairy types.

Pokemon Home

Sure, kyub may look like a little much in the current meta, but let’s not forget the pokemon included in home along with kyub. Look how many kyub counters there are. (Not including the obvious ubers like dusk mane)

Marshadow
Keldeo
Melmetal
Terrakion
Cobalion
Incineroar (gets cc now)
Necrozma

All of these are certain to be prominent threats in post-pokemon home 1v1. I think it’s very important not to look at kyub in the context of the current meta, but in the context of the most likely dominant pokemon released in pokemon home.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, let’s try not repeat Gen 7 council mistakes.
 
Why Kyub should NOT be quickbanned:

The reason it was banned in gen 7 was that it could use z moves to be unpredictable and beat whatever it wanted. With the removal of Z moves, kyub is forced to use choice items and weakness berries, which is not possible to beat everything with.
Now I know you’re thinking “But now kyub gets dragon dance and physical ice stab!” And you’re right, but I’ll explain why you might be mistaken.

Dragon dance

Dragon dance wins kyub no matchups that it could previously win with scarf or band, and is forced to waste a turn of set up, which loses some matchups. You might try to use a weakness berry to get a free turn of dragon dance, but you can only cover one weakness, and Ice Dragon has many, many weaknesses. Dragon Dance is forced to choose what matchups it wants to win, whereas Choiced sets can win those matchups outright.

Icicle Spear

Icicle spear is just a bad move. There is a chance to have 50,75,100, and 125 base power. This might seem decent, but let’s look at what matchups require kyub to use icicle spear over outrage, which is a much betterstab move for kyub.

Whimsicott
Virizion

That’s it. That’s all the matchups icicle spear helps with, and whimsicott loses to iron head sets anyway if not babri. Fusion bolt is better for flying types, and outrage is better for dragon types. Iron head is a good option over icicle spear because it gives kyub the chance to contend with fairy types.

Pokemon Home

Sure, kyub may look like a little much in the current meta, but let’s not forget the pokemon included in home along with kyub. Look how many kyub counters there are. (Not including the obvious ubers like dusk mane)

Marshadow
Keldeo
Melmetal
Terrakion
Cobalion
Incineroar (gets cc now)
Necrozma

All of these are certain to be prominent threats in post-pokemon home 1v1. I think it’s very important not to look at kyub in the context of the current meta, but in the context of the most likely dominant pokemon released in pokemon home.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk, let’s try not repeat Gen 7 council mistakes.
You never learn from your mistakes do you

Kyurem-Black was banned in a metagame where Z-moves and megas are present, and even in ORAS and BW where it wasn't banned the metagame is dominated by fairy/steel/fighting types and it still heavily defines the metagame as a whole.
The reason it was banned is his stats are absolutely insane, his typing is offensively terrifying and his ability is also super good. This mon will be even stronger than Mimikyu, which is probably gonna get suspected, and the amount of things it's gonna be able to beat with only one set is incredible.

While I do agree with the fact that Pokemon Home is gonna bring new counters (and even there you're not entirely correct, since Marshadow is gonna be instantly quick banned and Melmetal and Keldeo might even get suspected. Kyub can also run counter sets for most of those)

My intuition would say that kyub deserves a ban, especially since it beats the majority of the mons in the B-S tiers and doesn't get countered much more in the lower tiers. But I still think we should give it at least some time to see how it phases in the meta, and make a decision before 1v1pl.
 
Melmetal is a monster. I think whether it should be allowed or not should be considered by the council. I’m sure the older posts above illustrate how OP he is and the 1v1 room is currently discussing how insane its bulk and power is.

Before I go,
AVATHUGG (Avalugg) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Avalanche
- Recover
 
Given the recent addition of several powerful new Pokemon, 1v1's current meta is really messy and dominated by 5-6 Pokemon. Given how soon 1v1 Premier League is, I would ask that the council acts rapidly, regardless of what their decisions are. Ideally, we have some time to figure out the meta before talking about suspects and quiccbans, but I would prefer quick decisions for the health of the tour, even if they have to be revisited after PL. This is the same situation we had with Dynamax right before Winter Seasonal, which Quote thankfully pulled the trigger on. Do that.

edit : well i just look ridiculous now dont I
 
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Instead of adding Necrozma to the VR, can we ban it? Quickbanning would alleviate concerns of a suspect in the middle of PL.

Overcentralizing
It creates a meta where every team is dark type + dark type check + Necrozma. Specific pokemon like Incineroar, Crawdaunt, and Scrafty have all exploded in usage and it's getting very stale. Its incredible bulk also creates a push towards bulkier attackers that are designed to beat it as they can tank a hit, crowding out frailer attackers.

Broken
This thing has too many sets, all of which are too good. Just off the top with the Specs and Weakness policy sets, they're already insanely offensive while being bulky enough to take a hit from almost any poke in the meta bar Band Dracovish (even that's a roll against max def). After that, you have the Calm Mind setup sets, which are very strong and can easily set up on almost anything. Even exotic sets like Scarf (cursed but actually really insane) are strong. Good coverage with Psychic/Fire combined with setup potential is pretty nuts.

Uncompetitive
This is where the individual sets being indistinguishable at team preview comes in. The multiple sets require completely different responses. Tricking a Weakness Policy Necrozma a Choice Scarf that was intended for Calm Mind Necrozma will leave you disappointed. Matchups can come down to 50/50s where the course of action is completely different and unpredictable. This creates gameplay that kills effective counterplan and makes for a sour taste and players' mouths.
 
I, too, am calling for a necrozma quickban (the west boiz were talking about it; I promise I'm not just copying Synon). In a meta that heavily relies on fast, hard-hitting mons, Necrozma effectively invalidates the existence of top ranked mons like Mimikyu and Crustle through a 100 BP stab move that ignore abilities. Necrozma also possesses incredibly versatility, even thriving with uncommon sets such as Dragon Dance or scarfed Necrozma. A base 127 SpA stat and a base 107 Atk stat coupled with photon geyser, a move that can be physical or special depending on which stat is higher, leaves incredibly few stall-oriented Necrozma counters. So one may argue, "Just use an offensive mon. It can't be THAT hard to kill, right?" Incorrect. Base 97 Hp and 101 and 89 base Def and SpD, respectively, allows necrozma to tank a hit from almost every pokemon in the game. Chandelure, the pokemon with the highest special attack in the game and a 130 bp STAB move, even struggles to kill no-SpD Necrozma (52 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma: 381-448 (95.7 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO ). Throwing super effective moves at Necrozma won't do the trick, either. Prisim Armor is incredibly broken in 1v1, where the meta is heavily centered around picking pokemon with the type advantage, reminding me a lot of SM dragonite without the S rank hard counters. Necrozma can be a stalling, speedy, offensive set up, mixed attacking threat, certainly warranting a ban. The versatility and moveset of this pokemon is far too similar to mew for it to be healthy in the SwSh meta. Let's ban this boi.
 
Instead of adding Necrozma to the VR, can we ban it? Quickbanning would alleviate concerns of a suspect in the middle of PL.

Overcentralizing
It creates a meta where every team is dark type + dark type check + Necrozma. Specific pokemon like Incineroar, Crawdaunt, and Scrafty have all exploded in usage and it's getting very stale. Its incredible bulk also creates a push towards bulkier attackers that are designed to beat it as they can tank a hit, crowding out frailer attackers.

Broken
This thing has too many sets, all of which are too good. Just off the top with the Specs and Weakness policy sets, they're already insanely offensive while being bulky enough to take a hit from almost any poke in the meta bar Band Dracovish (even that's a roll against max def). After that, you have the Calm Mind setup sets, which are very strong and can easily set up on almost anything. Even exotic sets like Scarf (cursed but actually really insane) are strong. Good coverage with Psychic/Fire combined with setup potential is pretty nuts.

Uncompetitive
This is where the individual sets being indistinguishable at team preview comes in. The multiple sets require completely different responses. Tricking a Weakness Policy Necrozma a Choice Scarf that was intended for Calm Mind Necrozma will leave you disappointed. Matchups can come down to 50/50s where the course of action is completely different and unpredictable. This creates gameplay that kills effective counterplan and makes for a sour taste and players' mouths.
Completely agree, and I'd also like to draw everyone's attention as to the reason Kyurem-Black and Marshadow were quickbanned following the introduction of pokemon home;

Rosa on behalf of the council: "Additionally, the 1v1 Council has come to the decision that Kyurem-Black and Marshadow shall remain banned from the meta, for the time being. Both Pokemon have the potential to dominate the metagame, especially with the removal of Melmetal. Given the proximity of Premier League, we've chosen to leave both Pokemon quickbanned with the potential for a suspect test following Premier League, once the meta has been given a chance to stabilize and the council can evaluate clearly whether or not they would be overwhelming."

How Necrozma isn't initially included as part of this decision is beyond me. I feel as if the council may have overlooked just how centralizing and straining the metagame would become, with its influence surely being far greater than what the council initially anticipated. Implementing a quickban would allow for the meta to settle down while still maintaining stability throughout premier league, with the possibility of re-introducing it alongside Marshadow, Kyurem-Black and Melmetal in future suspects
 

Maki's Fox

luckiest player around
Like Synonimous, Waylaid, and dogknees, I am also requesting for a Necrozma quick ban. As of the moment, Necrozma has proved itself to much too large of threat. Simply with its most common sets such as Choice Specs and Weakness Policy Calm Mind, it is able to beat a vast majority of the meta (I'll make a spreadsheet of the matchups based on the VR later). As a result, like Sableye, the pokemon almost always forces a team to have a Dark-type in order to reliably beat it. Like what Synonimous had said earlier, Dark-type pokemon like Incineroar, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, Crawdaunt and more have exploded in usage due to their ability of checking Necrozma. However, even then, Necrozma still has sets that are able to deal with these pokemon. Running a bulky Calm Mind Necrozma allows it to defeat Hydreigon and Incineroar with Hyper Beam and Earth power respectively. Hyper Beam on Choice Specs Necrozma's HUGE base SpA allows it to straightup OHKO Crawdaunt. Running a PHYSICAL Necrozma lets you niche out on matchups against Tyranitar and Hydreigon while still allowing it to beat notable threats like Dragapult and Mimikyu. This is still only considering Necrozma matchups against Dark-types, which are already thought of as HEAVILY favored for Necrozma. Band Dracovish, Sub + Liechi Cinderace, and other "checks" have even more unreliable matchups. Band Dracovish can be outsped by Timid Choice Specs Necrozma, which still beats a huge amount of the metagame. Against Cinderace, Necrozma can invest enough EVs to live a +1 Blaze STAB Base 120 BP move while still preserving much of the matchups it would normally win against. Necrozma is simply too much for the metagame; the pokemon simply has too versatility on its sets which are each a MASSIVE threat to the entire metagame. Mispredicting what it runs in preview can prove to be detrimental. If the ban turns out to be unjust to some people and especially after expansion is released, a suspect can still always be held.
 

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