There is a problem with this. What they can do is Z-EQ to EQ and hope you don't kill, which is most of the time, and the Donphan will win.
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Resource 1v1 Viability Rankings
- Thread starter The Official Glyx
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Okay I have a few noms here and more will be coming later!
First up is Ampharos-Mega. I actually think this is pretty viable since it has a couple of viable sets.
I tried out the full defensive one with Cotton Guard and Eerie Pulse and it's pretty good. Normal Amph has a good ability in Static which is nice for fishing for paras and then even when you Mega Mold Breaker is a decent ability letting you beat Zeraora.
Even though Electric/Dragon is pretty rough defensive typing being weak to some of the most common types, 90/105/110 are legitimate defensive stats. 165 special attack on top of that makes it so you arnt just a sitting duck waiting to be crit.
I feel that C+ is a pretty fair ranking to start since it's definitely just as viable as a bunch of other mons ranked in that tier (Skarm, Gigalith, Scrafty, Umbreon) and here is my video using it and talking about it's usage -
I tried out the full defensive one with Cotton Guard and Eerie Pulse and it's pretty good. Normal Amph has a good ability in Static which is nice for fishing for paras and then even when you Mega Mold Breaker is a decent ability letting you beat Zeraora.
Even though Electric/Dragon is pretty rough defensive typing being weak to some of the most common types, 90/105/110 are legitimate defensive stats. 165 special attack on top of that makes it so you arnt just a sitting duck waiting to be crit.
I feel that C+ is a pretty fair ranking to start since it's definitely just as viable as a bunch of other mons ranked in that tier (Skarm, Gigalith, Scrafty, Umbreon) and here is my video using it and talking about it's usage -
Banette-Mega was sadly not as good and really cant take advantage of its good ability.
I would say the best set is probably physically defensive one with Cotton Guard (good move makes bad mon good again) and wisp and all that. It really is only viable because Prankster is a great ability. Getting to boost with Prankster can really help you stall some things out and on top of that you get fast Rest which is really nice.
64/75/83 defenses are not really that great but boosting really negates that weakness and Ghost typing is decent defensively with only few weaknesses. However, Banette really isnt very good and it only has once viable use, physically defensive. I thought C- was a pretty fari tier for it. Vdeo here -
I would say the best set is probably physically defensive one with Cotton Guard (good move makes bad mon good again) and wisp and all that. It really is only viable because Prankster is a great ability. Getting to boost with Prankster can really help you stall some things out and on top of that you get fast Rest which is really nice.
64/75/83 defenses are not really that great but boosting really negates that weakness and Ghost typing is decent defensively with only few weaknesses. However, Banette really isnt very good and it only has once viable use, physically defensive. I thought C- was a pretty fari tier for it. Vdeo here -
Honestly not a whole lot to say. The mon isnt great and has one niche cheese set which isnt really even very good. Low HP and no offensive presence lead me to believe that Cofagrigus should be off the VR entirely or D tier at the highest.
Video here -
Video here -
Except most of the time I do because who runs max bulk in 1v1 when you have Sturdy ?
Some mega aggron sets do. not many, and they aren't very good, but its still run
Spreads
| Adamant:248/252/0/0/8/0 14.085% |
| Adamant:0/252/80/0/0/176 13.734% |
| Adamant:80/252/0/0/0/176 9.115% |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 8.782% |
| Adamant:0/252/168/0/0/88 8.170% |
| Adamant:252/252/0/0/4/0 5.820% |
| Other 40.294%
Ehh not reliable enough I think, this is May 1630
But it's still an okay Aegislash lure, and sometimes Donphan
Mega Aggron I believe is still a L even with 1 outplay if he carries Head Smash. No matter what the IVs are, he can just mega and tank that V-create.
Eriey That's still 80% of the Donphans that straight up lose to this tech.
Also the Aegislash matchup doesn't need Will'o.
Aegislash needs Firium for Inferno Overdrive is what I meant, Will O for a lot of Donphan is just something else
(You can also get beat by Bulldoze/Rock Tomb)
Which just makes more 50/50 because even if you don't burn the Donphan Bulldoze won't kill and Flame charge is a thing.
Anyway, the conclusion of all this is that Victini vs Sturdy mons (With the exception of Zone) is far from being a immediate L because Z-Will'o is a thing. This "tech" might also help other fire mons against Sturdy Z-moves users.
Anyway, the conclusion of all this is that Victini vs Sturdy mons (With the exception of Zone) is far from being a immediate L because Z-Will'o is a thing. This "tech" might also help other fire mons against Sturdy Z-moves users.
Nomming Infernape C to C+
Infernape @ Firium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Substitute
- Flare Blitz
- Overheat
The evs can be fixed but I just split attack and spa even
Anyways, this set beats lots atm, lots of threats, with infernapes high speed stat it can set up substitutes until in blaze range and then can fire off a z move of the opponents weaker stat, if defense is weaker, z flare blitz, or if spd Is weaker, z overheat. Overheat is also useful for mons like landot and mawile and other intimidate users that lower your attack stat.
Some of the many infernape can beat is
-Magearna
-Porygon Z (if not scarf)
-Tapu Lele
-Magnezone
-Aegislash
-Gardevoir Mega
-Landorus T
-Celesteela
-Donphan
-Genesect
-Mawile Mega
- Metagross Mega (if not max speed jolly)
-Serperior
-Registeel
And more, these are the big ones it beats tho
Infernape @ Firium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Substitute
- Flare Blitz
- Overheat
The evs can be fixed but I just split attack and spa even
Anyways, this set beats lots atm, lots of threats, with infernapes high speed stat it can set up substitutes until in blaze range and then can fire off a z move of the opponents weaker stat, if defense is weaker, z flare blitz, or if spd Is weaker, z overheat. Overheat is also useful for mons like landot and mawile and other intimidate users that lower your attack stat.
Some of the many infernape can beat is
-Magearna
-Porygon Z (if not scarf)
-Tapu Lele
-Magnezone
-Aegislash
-Gardevoir Mega
-Landorus T
-Celesteela
-Donphan
-Genesect
-Mawile Mega
- Metagross Mega (if not max speed jolly)
-Serperior
-Registeel
And more, these are the big ones it beats tho
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Agree. Sub Blaze/similar ability really doesnt have much usage at all, most usage of it i've seen is Torracat tbh shoutouts to landon. Ok and the recent torrent greninja fad.
Infernape, naturally being the fastest Blaze user, is a prime candidate for this strategy and utilises it well.
Magneton is in B+. i refuse to believe that p2 is not the best nfe in 1v1, least of all worthy of dropping.
While all the B mons are deserving of their role and have their own niches, none of them are able to aptly and reliably able to deal with the combination of Dragonite, Mega Gyarados, and both Charizard formes. And not just one set. it straight up counters all sets (ok maaaaybe it loses to some niche willowisp zardx set) granted no hax. in particular, dragonite, while being able to cteam around most phys def mons with special sets and vice versa for spdef mons, p2 does not care for either.
other points in reply to pqs:
1: usage doesnt count for viability.
2: just because it cant beat kyub and koko anymore, that doesnt mean it beats less important things now. in fact just the fact that it could check those two shows that it has the capabilities to beat powerful pokemon.
Lastly, idk wtf i'm the one doing this but why is regice ranked and registeel isnt. its like. a better regice in most aspects.
registeel to at least same rank as regice, c+
Why not Blast burn on infernape ?
why the fuck would u make registeel c+??
It is way more viable than the dogshit in there such as skarm steelix nihilego,latios, haxorus, rachi, magneton. Moreover, it's been used to great success during the ladder tour. B+
There isn’t really a situation where I need z blast burn damage that I can think of but overheat can come in handy with mons that boost spd and def
The Official Glyx
Banned deucer.
B- Rank
People have not been happy with our B- rank thus far. Out of everyone who complains about the VR for one reason or another, I notice that the B- rank/mons in B- are what get mentioned the most, so I've decided to do a bit of a deep dive into all of the mons present in the rank.
Ambipom
Adequate. This weird monkey is surprisingly good. Fake Out + Giga Impact gets a lot of kills with either Normalium for the accuracy and access to Z-Tickle or Life Orb for the extra damage on Fake Out and whatever your coverage move is. That said, it does struggle with a lot of the lower tier mons, so its main niche is just being anti-meta as fuq, and should be used sparingly, as a result. Way better at its job than anything else in C+, not as generally reliable as most things in B.
Archeops
Needs work. This thing just smashes everything. While Band is its main claim to fame, it still has alternatives like Choice Scarf to outspeed things and Z-move sets that give it better accuracy and move selection at the expense of raw power. My final take is that it's just outright better than most/all of C+, but is still a bit unexplored besides the obvious Choice sets.
Audino-Mega/Type:Null
Adequate. Audino-Mega is branched under a very similar archetype to Type:Null, but does so in a notably different way, namely getting a +2 Spdef boosting move in Amnesia and a -1 Atk lowering move in Baby-Doll Eyes/Growl, the opposite of Null's setup with Iron Defense and Confide. Despite this difference, the two cover a very similar blanket of Pokemon, with Audino getting some slight advantages in having that Fairy typing and the ability to mindgame with whether or not it megas, versus Type:Null's immunity to crits, a pivotal necessity for most stall mons. Because the differences between these two balance out one another, I feel that they both belong in the same rank, regardless of whether they rise or fall. With that said, there's been a considerable surge of support for Type:Null to rise because "nothing can 2HKO" it, but people need to realize that you only need to 3HKO Type:Null, since Rest takes up 3 turns; this matters for far more scenarios than you may even be aware of, namely Charizard-X, Dragonite, Tapu Lele (which can also just win with Z-Calm Mind), Meloetta, Genesis Supernova Mew, Lando-T, Garchomp, Mawile, Zeraora, etc.
Blastoise-Mega
Possibly drop to C+. Slowly but surely, Blastoise has been struggling to maintain its niche, between Zards getting bulkier, Magnezone getting faster, mons running Protect for Fake Out, etc. It has options to deal with a lot of threats, but now struggles at covering them all at once within a single setup of spreads and moves. My gut tells me Blastoise is still a B- mon, but its niche is crumbling beneath it as time goes by.
Blaziken
Adequate. I love Blaziken, honestly. The biggest issue with this mon is that it just can't run all the moves it wants to in a single set. It also just hasn't really been explored beyond generic 252/252 sets. That said, I have a set in mind that I'll save for a later post, since it doesn't really fit in with the point of this post.
Camerupt-Mega
Adequate. People like to shit on this guy way too much, but how can you shit on something that beats this many Pokemon- Even just glazing over the VR, you'll notice that it beats like half of everything on there. The only downside is the reliance on Yawntect for a lot of matchups, hence why it's in B- instead of like B or B+.
Carracosta
Possibly raise to B. Carracosta is a neat mon that rose from Elo Bandit making an incredibly effective mixed Waterium set that took on many of the top threats in 1v1, thus mandating a rise from its prior C-something placement. That said, it often struggles with several mons that either wall it off with their raw bulk, have a type advantage, and/or smack it with a priority move. As an anti-meta Pokemon, Carracosta doesn't quite struggle as badly against lower ranked mons as Ambipom does, thus warranting a possible rise, considering the compared relative impact upon the overall metagame between these two.
Deoxys-Speed
Adequate. Deoxys has a pretty solid niche between its Stall and Specs sets. The only major downside is the reliance on not getting crit that Stall has to go through with most battles. While this is mostly speculation, I believe Rocky Helmet would be a more suitable item on it than leftovers or whatever recovery berry people use on it, since that'd force Charizard-X, Dragonite, Metagross, etc to all hurt themselves upon attacking you, cutting down on dozens of turns of stalling to just wind up getting crit on turn 69. If Rocky Helmet becomes meta, and it turns out it's really as good as I theorize it would be, then I could see Deoxys-Speed getting bumped up a notch or two.
Diancie-Mega
Adequate. Diancie is a pokemon that was popularized by its niche of beating Charizard and being able to dance around (50/50) Gyarados. The coming of gen 7 brought with it an important change in Mega Evolution Speed mechanics that meant it no longer needed to run Protect, as it now uses the Mega Evolution's Speed on the turn of Mega evolving, rather than the base form's Speed. While this was certainly a considerable boon for Diancie, it didn't help save it from the other gen 7 elements, namely Magearna, Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Zeraora, etc. Similar to Ambipom, Diancie finds itself best suited at handling the top priority "mainstream" threats of 1v1, and struggling with many mons below them.
Durant
Possibly drop to C+. Like Camerupt, Durant has a good raw number of advantageous matchups, but struggles with reliably beating them all. Durant's main issue, however, is that it's forced to rely on 80% or less accurate moves for literally ALL of its matchups. This means that anything it has to 2HKO becomes a 64% chance of doing so with hitting consecutive Iron Head and X-Scissor, while Stone Edge already has 80% accuracy, thus being reduced to 64% accuracy, due to Hustle.
Golem
Adequate. The perpetually "worse than donphan". Golem covers a very similar niche to the earth elephant, but is unfortunately plagued by a lack of moves that aid it in combating the upper ranks of 1v1, namely a strong poison move for hitting the ever-present fairy population, as well as a priority move that is comparatively as viable as Ice Shard. Golem does at least have something Donphan does not, in the form of Rock Blast, but this move only makes a difference for a handful of middle tier threats. Even STAB on Rock moves isn't that big of a deal, since Donphan's raw BP on Head Smash makes up for that difference. For these reasons, I feel Golem should always be a tier or two below Donphan.
Haxorus
Possibly raise to B. Haxorus is one of the fan favorites in B-. Its main claim to fame is beating a decent chunk of upper rank mons with its Choice Scarf set, though it really starts to fall flat when you look at the other ranks, beating less and less the further down you go. To cover this weakness, Haxorus has the alternative option to switch to a Banded or Z-move set, allowing it to break through a good number of the Pokemon that previously walled it. Compared to other anti-meta Pokemon like Ambipom and Diancie, Haxorus actually has viable options for dealing with the lower ranked mons that threaten its main Scarf set, thus making it more viable than B-, in my eyes.
Hoopa-Unbound
Possibly raise to B. Hoopa is one of the stranger cases of B-, not acting quite as anti-meta as many of the other mons of the same rank, but instead acting as more of an anti-everything-else, beating down a considerable portion of the A and below mons with its various sets between all three Choice items and Z-move sets. Like Haxorus, it has the option to switch between different sets to take on different threats, namely between physical sets and special sets, both of which taking on considerably different groupings of Pokemon. While it does struggle considerably more against the top threats of 1v1 than Haxorus does, it also has much better matchups against the mid-to-lower ranks, which puts these two on a relatively similar standing, in my opinion.
Krookodile
Possibly raise to B. Between TDA's beloved Physically Defensive set and dom's Choice Scarf set, Krookodile definitely has some options at its disposal, both of which take on a considerable number of relevant and viable threats. Like Haxorus, it switches between its sets to take on different groups of threatening Pokemon you anticipate it having to deal with, except, in Krookodile's case, both of its sets are more attuned towards beating the upper ranks, which puts it more in line with Ambipom as a strictly anti-meta Pokemon. That said, the cumulative wins that both sets bring in are too considerable to ignore, especially keeping in mind that neither of them really sacrifice too much in favor of running the other, and because of that, I believe Krookodile could be a viable contender for B.
Kyurem
Adequate. Kyurem is a bit of an oddball. It has pretty viable raw stats and a decent enough movepool, but the two don't really coincide enough with one another to produce anything noticeably outstanding, in my opinion. The main crux of all its best sets is stalling down opponents with Noble Roar and Roost, followed by whatever your choice of moves is for a win condition. While cumulatively, Kyurem has excellent matchups against upper and lower ranks alike, it struggles with things like needing enough bulk for surviving attacks, needing enough speed to outspeed and OHKO things that would otherwise do the same to it, having the right combination of damaging moves to win certain matchups, etc. Despite this, the combination of Noble Roar and Roost with any damaging moves still take home a considerable number of wins. Personally, if it weren't for the fact that any slight variation to its set will cost it some matchups, I could realistically see Kyurem moving to B.
Latias-Mega
Adequate. Latias is a bit of a peculiar case. Despite having multiple moves that people are familiar with, it doesn't really have much of an established presence besides vague "reflect type" or "charm/cm" sets. Despite this lack of common mainstream sets, Latias is capable of racking up a considerable number of wins through bulk and type advantage alone, namely Charizard-Y, Landorus-Therian, Donphan, Heatran, etc. The main problem Latias faces is that it needs particular moves and sets for many of the notably relevant threats in 1v1, such as Stored Power + Reflect Type + Calm Mind for Magearna, Specially Defensive Reflect Type for Greninja, Stored Power + Calm Mind for Magnezone, Slowbro, Togekiss, and Clefable, Draco Meteor for Kommo-o and Garchomp, Charm for non-DD Charizard-X, Crustle, Incineroar, etc. Much like Kyurem, it struggles at covering a large portion of its cumulative matchups within each individual set, and, for that reason, I believe B- is fine for it.
Manaphy
Debatable. Manaphy is another flexible Pokemon with only one or two mainstream sets, like Kyurem and Latias, however, it lacks the viable recovery that these two have, instead opting to run Rest, if it even wants to heal. Instead, Manaphy has Tail Glow to set it apart from the bulky dragons, making it an incredibly powerful threat after a turn or two of setup. That said, it also does have the tools to go defensive with Acid Armor/Charm and Calm Mind, at the expense of its immediate offensive capability. With all these options at its disposal, Manaphy can find a way to beat many Pokemon across all ranks, though it has to be built with differing individual sets in order to handle multiple different groups and archetypes of Pokemon, which really cuts back on the overall viability each set can have. I could see Manaphy either rising or falling, based on how people may interpret its flexibility, and whether or not it sacrifices too much with each set.
Medicham-Mega
Adequate. The absolute pinnacle of one-dimensional Pokemon. Despite being so predictable, Medicham finds moderately high placement on the VR due to its absurdly high damage output, allowing it to get kills against a wide variety of Pokemon from all ranks, like Meloetta, Kommo-o, Crustle, etc. Medicham's main issues stem, first, from the fact that it only gets two coverage slots and several coverage moves it wants to use, between Ice Punch for Dragonite, Zygarde, and Landorus, Zen Headbutt for Kommo-o and Venusaur, Thunder Punch for Gyarados and Charizard, Giga Impact for Charizard and Tapu Lele, Rock Tomb for Charizard, Gyarados, Volcarona, and Crustle, etc. Second, Medicham's Speed tier also leaves it susceptible to dangerous Speed ties against Charizard and Gardevoir, plus it also really wants to run Adamant to secure KOs against Pokemon like Magearna, Donphan, Celesteela, Primarina, etc, though that would sacrifice several matchups against Pokemon just barely slower than it. Not to mention how many Pokemon run Protect to spite Fake Out. Ultimately, I feel Medicham's balance of raw wins and lacking consistency/reliability against top tier threats make it a viable candidate for B-.
Pheromosa
Possibly raise to B. In talking about possible Pheromosa sets with the QC team for its pending analysis, I found that Choice Band actually nabs a lot more relevant KOs than I initially thought, namely Charizard with Giga Impact and Kommo-o, Garchomp, and Charizard-X with Outrage. Beyond that, it also has alternative sets like Choice Specs, Fightinium Z, Icium Z, etc that allow it to cumulatively take on a large chunk of most ranks, though nothing besides Choice Band really covers as generally wide of a selection of threats. The flexibility of being able to bounce back and forth between sets as well as their overall reliability make me believe Pheromosa could be a viable contender for B.
Raikou
Possibly drop to C+. Raikou rose in popularity due to its perceived ability to take on multiple high ranked threats of 1v1, between Charizard-Y, Gyarados, Magearna, Tapu Lele, Magnezone, etc, however, this mon is very stretched regarding things it needs to EV for; needing way too much SpA for specially bulky mons like Magearna, Meloetta, Lele, Metagross, Gardevoir, etc; needing way too much physical bulk to take attacks from mons like Metagross, Mawile, Crustle, Incineroar, etc; and needing a ton of Speed to outspeed what it needs to between Zard-Y, Kartana, Jumpluff, etc. While it can beat all of these things individually, it just cannot do so in a single spread, and it sacrifices a lot of potential wins in picking one given spread over another, in addition to not really having that many cumulative wins across all of its differing spreads. For this reason, I feel Raikou may need to drop to C+ until someone can produce an optimized set that takes on everything it needs to (I tried, and couldn't make it happen).
Scizor-Mega
Possibly raise to B. Scizor is actually just an outright good mon. It has great bulk, recovery, attack options, defensive typing, etc. The only shitty thing about it is that some of its biggest counters between Charizard, (Special) Dragonite, Taunt Gyarados, etc run the metagame, which makes it a bit difficult for Scizor to thrive in the general metagame. Despite this, Scizor stills comes out swinging against near everything else, having either the raw type/stat advantage or PP stall capability against half/most of every rank below S. Confide/Struggle Bug is also a hot tech option over Bug Bite to cover threats like Magearna, non-HP Fire Porygon-Z and Tapu Lele, Primarina, etc; you don't really lose anything from sacrificing Bug Bite, either. The main thing really holding Scizor back is how easy it is to counteract, either with a Fire move or Taunt. Despite this, I absolutely feel that Scizor reliably covers a wide enough variety of threats to merit at least B rank.
Serperior
Possibly raise to B. Serperior has blown up as of late, on account of Ravonne using it on nearly every team during LT, which has raised enough attention for people to start realizing that it's actually a good mon. Serperior's main niche comes from its ability to act as a SubSeeder to rival the likes of Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and Tapu Bulu, however, what it lacks in Sleep use, priority, or raw power, it makes up for in the excellent ability Contrary, allowing it to 2/3HKO most Pokemon that lack means of boosting SpD. Similar to Scizor, the main problem Serperior faces stems from the dominant Pokemon that happen to run 1v1 all coincidentally smacking it, namely Charizard, Dragonite, Porygon-Z, Greninja, Meloetta, Kommo-o, etc. Despite suffering all these losses from top tier threats, I still feel Serperior has made its reliability against everything else quite clear, warranting at least B rank.
Swampert-Mega
Adequate. Right up in the same boat with Camerupt, Swampert's main deal is being a bulky tank that relies on Yawntect just a bit too much. Unfortunately, unlike Camerupt, Swampy just gets neutered by Charizard-Y, and the sets with Ice Beam and Earthquake even pose a considerable risk of losing to Charizard-X! (if they don't mega). That said, it makes up for this in being able to tank hits from Porygon-Z, Meloetta, Zygarde, Landorus, etc, even if it relies pretty heavily on good sleep rolls against most of them. I feel Swampert could probably climb higher if people explored other sets besides Yawntect, but until then, B- is good enough.
Tapu Bulu
Adequate. As a Grass type, Tapu Bulu falls under a similar category as Serperior, Scizor, Metagross, Celesteela, etc, all being Pokemon that would be so much better off if Charizard didn't exist. This one in particular packs a mighty wallop with Grassy Terrain-boosted Grass moves, such to the extent that SubSeed isn't as much of a crutch for it as it is for Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and certain Serperior sets. Unlike Serperior, though, it lacks a considerable chunk of Speed that it needs for outspeeding many threats like Tapu Lele, Mew, Zygarde, Landorus, etc, in addition to the fact that its Fairy typing actually acts as more of an inhibitor, giving it extra weaknesses to the threatening Steel types like Metagross, Magnezone, and Celesteela, as well as an autoloss to anyone who cteams you with a Poison move. Because of this, I believe it's fair for Bulu to stay about a notch or two below Serperior (assuming it rises), to make the difference between these two clear.
Vivillon
Debatable. Vivillon hasn't really wavered since it was first introduced, though it has somewhat benefitted from Charizard running more spdef sets, allowing it to at least have a chance, even if it does need considerably good sleep rolls to forgo the risk of Flame Charge. Beyond Charizard, all the other matchups that it doesn't either outright win or lose come down to sleep rolls as well, namely Extreme Speed Dragonite, Taunt Gyarados, Bullet Punch Metagross, Extreme Speed Zygarde, etc. A little known fact about Vivillon is that you can actually sacrifice its SpA for SpD to beat most Genesect besides fast Specs and bulk a Kommo-o's Clangorous Soulblaze at +1. Similar to Hoopa-U, Vivillon is notably better at busting up the lower ranks, rather than the upper ones, though it does at least have a chance at rolling its way through a decent chunk of upper ranks. Main downside is that it's pretty one-dimensional, not having much else to do besides Sleep + Sub + Quiver, with the main differences in sets being whether people run Flyinium or Leftovers, which leads me to believe it should stay a notch below Hoopa, personally, unless someone makes a really good case for it.
Zapdos
Possibly raise to B. Zapdos is weird. It's got intermediate stats across the board, besides moderately high Speed and SpA. It can do a few things between killing with Electrium Z and its coverage moves as well as stalling with Substitute and Toxic, and any given combination of the previous two. The biggest plus it gets over any other Electric type 1v1 mon is the ability to bulk hits and heal, giving it much better longevity over others of the same type, namely the ability to outlast Pokemon like Charizard-X without offensive setup, Special Dragonite (maybe even physical with Reflect?), Metagross, Landorus, etc. That said, Zapdos does struggle at covering everything within a single set, like Raikou, though cumulatively, it covers a much broader variety of threats than it, across each possible (viable) setup of moves and spreads. This kind of flexibility puts it moreso in line with Blaziken, in terms of being able to pick what you want to beat with it, but each Zapdos set also covers a much broader niche than most of Blaziken's often particularly built sets. For these reasons, I believe Zapdos merits B at least.
Of the 27 mons in B- rank, this means 15 of them (12 Adequate + Archeops + 2 Debatable), according to my thought process, are accurately represented in their current B- ranking, while the remaining 12 should be moved to the corresponding ranks above or below B- that best suit them. Considering that 3 of the 15 are still open for debate, that means that the current B- rank is only about 50% accurate, regarding all the Pokemon contained within it, and I deeply apologize for this being the case. Even in my own votes for the nominated B- Pokemon from the last cycle, I hadn't thought as carefully on each Pokemon I was voting for, rather, I just blazed through each of them on gut feelings and individual interpretations, rather than thoroughly assessing their tools, strengths, and compared relative impact upon the metagame to one another.
To alleviate this, every Pokemon that I've said should move in this post will be added to the nomination list for this cycle's voting slate, and hopefully, some shifts in how we (the VR Council) carry out maintaining the VR shall occur, pending approval from all the other active members.
People have not been happy with our B- rank thus far. Out of everyone who complains about the VR for one reason or another, I notice that the B- rank/mons in B- are what get mentioned the most, so I've decided to do a bit of a deep dive into all of the mons present in the rank.
Ambipom
Adequate. This weird monkey is surprisingly good. Fake Out + Giga Impact gets a lot of kills with either Normalium for the accuracy and access to Z-Tickle or Life Orb for the extra damage on Fake Out and whatever your coverage move is. That said, it does struggle with a lot of the lower tier mons, so its main niche is just being anti-meta as fuq, and should be used sparingly, as a result. Way better at its job than anything else in C+, not as generally reliable as most things in B.
Archeops
Needs work. This thing just smashes everything. While Band is its main claim to fame, it still has alternatives like Choice Scarf to outspeed things and Z-move sets that give it better accuracy and move selection at the expense of raw power. My final take is that it's just outright better than most/all of C+, but is still a bit unexplored besides the obvious Choice sets.
Audino-Mega/Type:Null
Adequate. Audino-Mega is branched under a very similar archetype to Type:Null, but does so in a notably different way, namely getting a +2 Spdef boosting move in Amnesia and a -1 Atk lowering move in Baby-Doll Eyes/Growl, the opposite of Null's setup with Iron Defense and Confide. Despite this difference, the two cover a very similar blanket of Pokemon, with Audino getting some slight advantages in having that Fairy typing and the ability to mindgame with whether or not it megas, versus Type:Null's immunity to crits, a pivotal necessity for most stall mons. Because the differences between these two balance out one another, I feel that they both belong in the same rank, regardless of whether they rise or fall. With that said, there's been a considerable surge of support for Type:Null to rise because "nothing can 2HKO" it, but people need to realize that you only need to 3HKO Type:Null, since Rest takes up 3 turns; this matters for far more scenarios than you may even be aware of, namely Charizard-X, Dragonite, Tapu Lele (which can also just win with Z-Calm Mind), Meloetta, Genesis Supernova Mew, Lando-T, Garchomp, Mawile, Zeraora, etc.
Blastoise-Mega
Possibly drop to C+. Slowly but surely, Blastoise has been struggling to maintain its niche, between Zards getting bulkier, Magnezone getting faster, mons running Protect for Fake Out, etc. It has options to deal with a lot of threats, but now struggles at covering them all at once within a single setup of spreads and moves. My gut tells me Blastoise is still a B- mon, but its niche is crumbling beneath it as time goes by.
Blaziken
Adequate. I love Blaziken, honestly. The biggest issue with this mon is that it just can't run all the moves it wants to in a single set. It also just hasn't really been explored beyond generic 252/252 sets. That said, I have a set in mind that I'll save for a later post, since it doesn't really fit in with the point of this post.
Camerupt-Mega
Adequate. People like to shit on this guy way too much, but how can you shit on something that beats this many Pokemon- Even just glazing over the VR, you'll notice that it beats like half of everything on there. The only downside is the reliance on Yawntect for a lot of matchups, hence why it's in B- instead of like B or B+.
Carracosta
Possibly raise to B. Carracosta is a neat mon that rose from Elo Bandit making an incredibly effective mixed Waterium set that took on many of the top threats in 1v1, thus mandating a rise from its prior C-something placement. That said, it often struggles with several mons that either wall it off with their raw bulk, have a type advantage, and/or smack it with a priority move. As an anti-meta Pokemon, Carracosta doesn't quite struggle as badly against lower ranked mons as Ambipom does, thus warranting a possible rise, considering the compared relative impact upon the overall metagame between these two.
Deoxys-Speed
Adequate. Deoxys has a pretty solid niche between its Stall and Specs sets. The only major downside is the reliance on not getting crit that Stall has to go through with most battles. While this is mostly speculation, I believe Rocky Helmet would be a more suitable item on it than leftovers or whatever recovery berry people use on it, since that'd force Charizard-X, Dragonite, Metagross, etc to all hurt themselves upon attacking you, cutting down on dozens of turns of stalling to just wind up getting crit on turn 69. If Rocky Helmet becomes meta, and it turns out it's really as good as I theorize it would be, then I could see Deoxys-Speed getting bumped up a notch or two.
Diancie-Mega
Adequate. Diancie is a pokemon that was popularized by its niche of beating Charizard and being able to dance around (50/50) Gyarados. The coming of gen 7 brought with it an important change in Mega Evolution Speed mechanics that meant it no longer needed to run Protect, as it now uses the Mega Evolution's Speed on the turn of Mega evolving, rather than the base form's Speed. While this was certainly a considerable boon for Diancie, it didn't help save it from the other gen 7 elements, namely Magearna, Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Zeraora, etc. Similar to Ambipom, Diancie finds itself best suited at handling the top priority "mainstream" threats of 1v1, and struggling with many mons below them.
Durant
Possibly drop to C+. Like Camerupt, Durant has a good raw number of advantageous matchups, but struggles with reliably beating them all. Durant's main issue, however, is that it's forced to rely on 80% or less accurate moves for literally ALL of its matchups. This means that anything it has to 2HKO becomes a 64% chance of doing so with hitting consecutive Iron Head and X-Scissor, while Stone Edge already has 80% accuracy, thus being reduced to 64% accuracy, due to Hustle.
Golem
Adequate. The perpetually "worse than donphan". Golem covers a very similar niche to the earth elephant, but is unfortunately plagued by a lack of moves that aid it in combating the upper ranks of 1v1, namely a strong poison move for hitting the ever-present fairy population, as well as a priority move that is comparatively as viable as Ice Shard. Golem does at least have something Donphan does not, in the form of Rock Blast, but this move only makes a difference for a handful of middle tier threats. Even STAB on Rock moves isn't that big of a deal, since Donphan's raw BP on Head Smash makes up for that difference. For these reasons, I feel Golem should always be a tier or two below Donphan.
Haxorus
Possibly raise to B. Haxorus is one of the fan favorites in B-. Its main claim to fame is beating a decent chunk of upper rank mons with its Choice Scarf set, though it really starts to fall flat when you look at the other ranks, beating less and less the further down you go. To cover this weakness, Haxorus has the alternative option to switch to a Banded or Z-move set, allowing it to break through a good number of the Pokemon that previously walled it. Compared to other anti-meta Pokemon like Ambipom and Diancie, Haxorus actually has viable options for dealing with the lower ranked mons that threaten its main Scarf set, thus making it more viable than B-, in my eyes.
Hoopa-Unbound
Possibly raise to B. Hoopa is one of the stranger cases of B-, not acting quite as anti-meta as many of the other mons of the same rank, but instead acting as more of an anti-everything-else, beating down a considerable portion of the A and below mons with its various sets between all three Choice items and Z-move sets. Like Haxorus, it has the option to switch between different sets to take on different threats, namely between physical sets and special sets, both of which taking on considerably different groupings of Pokemon. While it does struggle considerably more against the top threats of 1v1 than Haxorus does, it also has much better matchups against the mid-to-lower ranks, which puts these two on a relatively similar standing, in my opinion.
Krookodile
Possibly raise to B. Between TDA's beloved Physically Defensive set and dom's Choice Scarf set, Krookodile definitely has some options at its disposal, both of which take on a considerable number of relevant and viable threats. Like Haxorus, it switches between its sets to take on different groups of threatening Pokemon you anticipate it having to deal with, except, in Krookodile's case, both of its sets are more attuned towards beating the upper ranks, which puts it more in line with Ambipom as a strictly anti-meta Pokemon. That said, the cumulative wins that both sets bring in are too considerable to ignore, especially keeping in mind that neither of them really sacrifice too much in favor of running the other, and because of that, I believe Krookodile could be a viable contender for B.
Kyurem
Adequate. Kyurem is a bit of an oddball. It has pretty viable raw stats and a decent enough movepool, but the two don't really coincide enough with one another to produce anything noticeably outstanding, in my opinion. The main crux of all its best sets is stalling down opponents with Noble Roar and Roost, followed by whatever your choice of moves is for a win condition. While cumulatively, Kyurem has excellent matchups against upper and lower ranks alike, it struggles with things like needing enough bulk for surviving attacks, needing enough speed to outspeed and OHKO things that would otherwise do the same to it, having the right combination of damaging moves to win certain matchups, etc. Despite this, the combination of Noble Roar and Roost with any damaging moves still take home a considerable number of wins. Personally, if it weren't for the fact that any slight variation to its set will cost it some matchups, I could realistically see Kyurem moving to B.
Latias-Mega
Adequate. Latias is a bit of a peculiar case. Despite having multiple moves that people are familiar with, it doesn't really have much of an established presence besides vague "reflect type" or "charm/cm" sets. Despite this lack of common mainstream sets, Latias is capable of racking up a considerable number of wins through bulk and type advantage alone, namely Charizard-Y, Landorus-Therian, Donphan, Heatran, etc. The main problem Latias faces is that it needs particular moves and sets for many of the notably relevant threats in 1v1, such as Stored Power + Reflect Type + Calm Mind for Magearna, Specially Defensive Reflect Type for Greninja, Stored Power + Calm Mind for Magnezone, Slowbro, Togekiss, and Clefable, Draco Meteor for Kommo-o and Garchomp, Charm for non-DD Charizard-X, Crustle, Incineroar, etc. Much like Kyurem, it struggles at covering a large portion of its cumulative matchups within each individual set, and, for that reason, I believe B- is fine for it.
Manaphy
Debatable. Manaphy is another flexible Pokemon with only one or two mainstream sets, like Kyurem and Latias, however, it lacks the viable recovery that these two have, instead opting to run Rest, if it even wants to heal. Instead, Manaphy has Tail Glow to set it apart from the bulky dragons, making it an incredibly powerful threat after a turn or two of setup. That said, it also does have the tools to go defensive with Acid Armor/Charm and Calm Mind, at the expense of its immediate offensive capability. With all these options at its disposal, Manaphy can find a way to beat many Pokemon across all ranks, though it has to be built with differing individual sets in order to handle multiple different groups and archetypes of Pokemon, which really cuts back on the overall viability each set can have. I could see Manaphy either rising or falling, based on how people may interpret its flexibility, and whether or not it sacrifices too much with each set.
Medicham-Mega
Adequate. The absolute pinnacle of one-dimensional Pokemon. Despite being so predictable, Medicham finds moderately high placement on the VR due to its absurdly high damage output, allowing it to get kills against a wide variety of Pokemon from all ranks, like Meloetta, Kommo-o, Crustle, etc. Medicham's main issues stem, first, from the fact that it only gets two coverage slots and several coverage moves it wants to use, between Ice Punch for Dragonite, Zygarde, and Landorus, Zen Headbutt for Kommo-o and Venusaur, Thunder Punch for Gyarados and Charizard, Giga Impact for Charizard and Tapu Lele, Rock Tomb for Charizard, Gyarados, Volcarona, and Crustle, etc. Second, Medicham's Speed tier also leaves it susceptible to dangerous Speed ties against Charizard and Gardevoir, plus it also really wants to run Adamant to secure KOs against Pokemon like Magearna, Donphan, Celesteela, Primarina, etc, though that would sacrifice several matchups against Pokemon just barely slower than it. Not to mention how many Pokemon run Protect to spite Fake Out. Ultimately, I feel Medicham's balance of raw wins and lacking consistency/reliability against top tier threats make it a viable candidate for B-.
Pheromosa
Possibly raise to B. In talking about possible Pheromosa sets with the QC team for its pending analysis, I found that Choice Band actually nabs a lot more relevant KOs than I initially thought, namely Charizard with Giga Impact and Kommo-o, Garchomp, and Charizard-X with Outrage. Beyond that, it also has alternative sets like Choice Specs, Fightinium Z, Icium Z, etc that allow it to cumulatively take on a large chunk of most ranks, though nothing besides Choice Band really covers as generally wide of a selection of threats. The flexibility of being able to bounce back and forth between sets as well as their overall reliability make me believe Pheromosa could be a viable contender for B.
Raikou
Possibly drop to C+. Raikou rose in popularity due to its perceived ability to take on multiple high ranked threats of 1v1, between Charizard-Y, Gyarados, Magearna, Tapu Lele, Magnezone, etc, however, this mon is very stretched regarding things it needs to EV for; needing way too much SpA for specially bulky mons like Magearna, Meloetta, Lele, Metagross, Gardevoir, etc; needing way too much physical bulk to take attacks from mons like Metagross, Mawile, Crustle, Incineroar, etc; and needing a ton of Speed to outspeed what it needs to between Zard-Y, Kartana, Jumpluff, etc. While it can beat all of these things individually, it just cannot do so in a single spread, and it sacrifices a lot of potential wins in picking one given spread over another, in addition to not really having that many cumulative wins across all of its differing spreads. For this reason, I feel Raikou may need to drop to C+ until someone can produce an optimized set that takes on everything it needs to (I tried, and couldn't make it happen).
Scizor-Mega
Possibly raise to B. Scizor is actually just an outright good mon. It has great bulk, recovery, attack options, defensive typing, etc. The only shitty thing about it is that some of its biggest counters between Charizard, (Special) Dragonite, Taunt Gyarados, etc run the metagame, which makes it a bit difficult for Scizor to thrive in the general metagame. Despite this, Scizor stills comes out swinging against near everything else, having either the raw type/stat advantage or PP stall capability against half/most of every rank below S. Confide/Struggle Bug is also a hot tech option over Bug Bite to cover threats like Magearna, non-HP Fire Porygon-Z and Tapu Lele, Primarina, etc; you don't really lose anything from sacrificing Bug Bite, either. The main thing really holding Scizor back is how easy it is to counteract, either with a Fire move or Taunt. Despite this, I absolutely feel that Scizor reliably covers a wide enough variety of threats to merit at least B rank.
Serperior
Possibly raise to B. Serperior has blown up as of late, on account of Ravonne using it on nearly every team during LT, which has raised enough attention for people to start realizing that it's actually a good mon. Serperior's main niche comes from its ability to act as a SubSeeder to rival the likes of Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and Tapu Bulu, however, what it lacks in Sleep use, priority, or raw power, it makes up for in the excellent ability Contrary, allowing it to 2/3HKO most Pokemon that lack means of boosting SpD. Similar to Scizor, the main problem Serperior faces stems from the dominant Pokemon that happen to run 1v1 all coincidentally smacking it, namely Charizard, Dragonite, Porygon-Z, Greninja, Meloetta, Kommo-o, etc. Despite suffering all these losses from top tier threats, I still feel Serperior has made its reliability against everything else quite clear, warranting at least B rank.
Swampert-Mega
Adequate. Right up in the same boat with Camerupt, Swampert's main deal is being a bulky tank that relies on Yawntect just a bit too much. Unfortunately, unlike Camerupt, Swampy just gets neutered by Charizard-Y, and the sets with Ice Beam and Earthquake even pose a considerable risk of losing to Charizard-X! (if they don't mega). That said, it makes up for this in being able to tank hits from Porygon-Z, Meloetta, Zygarde, Landorus, etc, even if it relies pretty heavily on good sleep rolls against most of them. I feel Swampert could probably climb higher if people explored other sets besides Yawntect, but until then, B- is good enough.
Tapu Bulu
Adequate. As a Grass type, Tapu Bulu falls under a similar category as Serperior, Scizor, Metagross, Celesteela, etc, all being Pokemon that would be so much better off if Charizard didn't exist. This one in particular packs a mighty wallop with Grassy Terrain-boosted Grass moves, such to the extent that SubSeed isn't as much of a crutch for it as it is for Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and certain Serperior sets. Unlike Serperior, though, it lacks a considerable chunk of Speed that it needs for outspeeding many threats like Tapu Lele, Mew, Zygarde, Landorus, etc, in addition to the fact that its Fairy typing actually acts as more of an inhibitor, giving it extra weaknesses to the threatening Steel types like Metagross, Magnezone, and Celesteela, as well as an autoloss to anyone who cteams you with a Poison move. Because of this, I believe it's fair for Bulu to stay about a notch or two below Serperior (assuming it rises), to make the difference between these two clear.
Vivillon
Debatable. Vivillon hasn't really wavered since it was first introduced, though it has somewhat benefitted from Charizard running more spdef sets, allowing it to at least have a chance, even if it does need considerably good sleep rolls to forgo the risk of Flame Charge. Beyond Charizard, all the other matchups that it doesn't either outright win or lose come down to sleep rolls as well, namely Extreme Speed Dragonite, Taunt Gyarados, Bullet Punch Metagross, Extreme Speed Zygarde, etc. A little known fact about Vivillon is that you can actually sacrifice its SpA for SpD to beat most Genesect besides fast Specs and bulk a Kommo-o's Clangorous Soulblaze at +1. Similar to Hoopa-U, Vivillon is notably better at busting up the lower ranks, rather than the upper ones, though it does at least have a chance at rolling its way through a decent chunk of upper ranks. Main downside is that it's pretty one-dimensional, not having much else to do besides Sleep + Sub + Quiver, with the main differences in sets being whether people run Flyinium or Leftovers, which leads me to believe it should stay a notch below Hoopa, personally, unless someone makes a really good case for it.
Zapdos
Possibly raise to B. Zapdos is weird. It's got intermediate stats across the board, besides moderately high Speed and SpA. It can do a few things between killing with Electrium Z and its coverage moves as well as stalling with Substitute and Toxic, and any given combination of the previous two. The biggest plus it gets over any other Electric type 1v1 mon is the ability to bulk hits and heal, giving it much better longevity over others of the same type, namely the ability to outlast Pokemon like Charizard-X without offensive setup, Special Dragonite (maybe even physical with Reflect?), Metagross, Landorus, etc. That said, Zapdos does struggle at covering everything within a single set, like Raikou, though cumulatively, it covers a much broader variety of threats than it, across each possible (viable) setup of moves and spreads. This kind of flexibility puts it moreso in line with Blaziken, in terms of being able to pick what you want to beat with it, but each Zapdos set also covers a much broader niche than most of Blaziken's often particularly built sets. For these reasons, I believe Zapdos merits B at least.
Of the 27 mons in B- rank, this means 15 of them (12 Adequate + Archeops + 2 Debatable), according to my thought process, are accurately represented in their current B- ranking, while the remaining 12 should be moved to the corresponding ranks above or below B- that best suit them. Considering that 3 of the 15 are still open for debate, that means that the current B- rank is only about 50% accurate, regarding all the Pokemon contained within it, and I deeply apologize for this being the case. Even in my own votes for the nominated B- Pokemon from the last cycle, I hadn't thought as carefully on each Pokemon I was voting for, rather, I just blazed through each of them on gut feelings and individual interpretations, rather than thoroughly assessing their tools, strengths, and compared relative impact upon the metagame to one another.
To alleviate this, every Pokemon that I've said should move in this post will be added to the nomination list for this cycle's voting slate, and hopefully, some shifts in how we (the VR Council) carry out maintaining the VR shall occur, pending approval from all the other active members.
Krookodile is better than Incineroar by a country mile (or at least B rank) Will update this post soon
Claydol from UR -> UT. Claydol has decent bulk and great coverage with dual stab + shadow ball/ice beam but it has always lacked a little punch. however with z heal block that glaring weakness can easily be patched up. Z heal block is just regular heal block but with a nasty plot slapped on to it. this allows claydol to beat stall mons that do not have a damaging move such as deoxys 100% of the time as they cant recover and you can just chip them down over time. overall this mon has some untapped potential that needs more experamenting
Gonna try and break down every Pokemon from osra's post, since I have some experience using most of them, or at least facing the in team preview and/or match...
HypnoHexing itand FluffBalls Confiding in it
and I feel this is where I introduce physical Manaphy to bait and KO Hoopa-U and Mega Heracross.... On the whole, I feel Manaphy is pretty good, and it should not drop to C+ at all...
Wrath of Alakazam looks at Icium Z Pheromosa being mentioned and cries
Mostly beats Lele (252+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +1 116 HP / 0 SpD Raikou in Psychic Terrain: 313-370 (89.4 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO)
How osra does these goddamned long posts is beyond me.....
e1 : I agree (without any strong opinions to support my stance) on all the noms I have chosen not to respond
While it is not exactly used, it also gets tech which is both loved and hated, the much talked-about Yawn, in addition to Mega Launcher-boosted moves like Dragon Pulse and Dark Pulse. While it is true that Zards bulking and Zones speeding up spells bad for MToise, Mega Blastoise is naturally blessed with a Speed tier naturally higher than these, and its fast set loses not a lot of tanking capacity, while its bulkier sets does what it needs to do - tank shit and hit a bit. Also, if you're fast, Fake Out can be sacrificed for Substitute on its RTomb+3SpA sets with some speed to creep TimidZone. So, have to disagree with MToise dropping...
Blastoise-Mega
Possibly drop to C+. Slowly but surely, Blastoise has been struggling to maintain its niche, between Zards getting bulkier, Magnezone getting faster, mons running Protect for Fake Out, etc. It has options to deal with a lot of threats, but now struggles at covering them all at once within a single setup of spreads and moves. My gut tells me Blastoise is still a B- mon, but its niche is crumbling beneath it as time goes by.
Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 124 HP / 192 SpA / 192 Spe (or) EVs: 124 HP / 188 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature {For Magneton} (or) Modest Nature {For Magnezone}
- Substitute
- Rock Tomb
- Hydro Cannon
- Dragon Pulse (or) Dark Pulse
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 124 HP / 192 SpA / 192 Spe (or) EVs: 124 HP / 188 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature {For Magneton} (or) Modest Nature {For Magnezone}
- Substitute
- Rock Tomb
- Hydro Cannon
- Dragon Pulse (or) Dark Pulse
Was just going through the VR, and I find that it does have a unique trait that other Rock-type Pokemon like Golem, Mega Tyranitar, Crustle, and Carracosta don't, in its ability to beat Mega Gyarados (I'm not gonna list DNite here, coz Iron Head is becoming popular FSR) It counters (2/5) S, (0/2) A+, (1/7) A, (4/6) A-, (5/15) B+, and (8/16) B rank Pokemon, which makes it (20/51) Pokemon above it. Just looking at these numbers, you realise that it doesn't even 40% of the Pokemon from VR which are higher than itself, and that's what makes me think this thing has to drop to C+, where it looks pretty perfect along with Pokemon like Regice and Mega Heracross.
Diancie-Mega
Adequate. Diancie is a pokemon that was popularized by its niche of beating Charizard and being able to dance around (50/50) Gyarados. The coming of gen 7 brought with it an important change in Mega Evolution Speed mechanics that meant it no longer needed to run Protect, as it now uses the Mega Evolution's Speed on the turn of Mega evolving, rather than the base form's Speed. While this was certainly a considerable boon for Diancie, it didn't help save it from the other gen 7 elements, namely Magearna, Tapu Lele, Celesteela, Primarina, Tapu Fini, Zeraora, etc. Similar to Ambipom, Diancie finds itself best suited at handling the top priority "mainstream" threats of 1v1, and struggling with many mons below them.
No STAB on Rock-type sorta makes Donphan rely on Head Smash, and Z-HSmash Donphan is very bad coz it beats nothing outside of Zards. Golem, OTOH, gets STAB for Rock-type moves which helps its Rockium Z set net some KOs outside of Zards, like Heatran. No denying that Sucker Punch is unreliable, but if you can look beyond using priority moves on Sturdy Pokemon, you will realise that it gets Smack Down to get the Celesteela MU, Rock Blast to get Jumpluff and Whimsicott(?), and Iron Head to take care of MagRise Mega Diancie (if need be).... It might not get the overly awesome coverage moves like Donphan, but it gets utilitarian moves which solidifies many of its iffy MUs, which makes it (in my eyes) worthy of a rise to B...
Golem
Adequate. The perpetually "worse than donphan". Golem covers a very similar niche to the earth elephant, but is unfortunately plagued by a lack of moves that aid it in combating the upper ranks of 1v1, namely a strong poison move for hitting the ever-present fairy population, as well as a priority move that is comparatively as viable as Ice Shard. Golem does at least have something Donphan does not, in the form of Rock Blast, but this move only makes a difference for a handful of middle tier threats. Even STAB on Rock moves isn't that big of a deal, since Donphan's raw BP on Head Smash makes up for that difference. For these reasons, I feel Golem should always be a tier or two below Donphan.
Golem @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smack Down
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Beats Jumpluff, Whimsicott, most Celesteela, and no-Flash Cannon Heatran...
Golem @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Iron Head
- Counter
Beats Zards, most Heatrans, and non-bulky Jirachis....
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smack Down
- Rock Tomb
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Beats Jumpluff, Whimsicott, most Celesteela, and no-Flash Cannon Heatran...
Golem @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake / Iron Head
- Counter
Beats Zards, most Heatrans, and non-bulky Jirachis....
It is quite anti-meta, while maintaining its anti-everything else status... Its BulkySpecs takes on MDos, Primarina, Garchomp, Jolly Lando-T, MegaGross, Heatran, Serperior, Mega Venusaur, and WhimsiPluff with further possibilities to beat Mega Swampert and Incineroar depending on coverage moves. Its FastBand beats PrimaFini, Lele, Kommo-o... A big advantage of Hoopa-U is its high dual offensive firepower, backed by some high base power coverage moves, which makes its defensive sets not miss out on too many crucial match-ups. Personally, I also found a funny Z-Reflect Hoopa-U which beats GolPhan, and a NPlot DarkZ which beats most stall. Ppl might say that Hoopa-U finds it difficult to beat all these in a single set, but it can be tailor made to beat most (if not all) non-Fairy, non-Bug threats.... So, I support Hoopa-U raising to B or even B+.
Hoopa-Unbound
Possibly raise to B. Hoopa is one of the stranger cases of B-, not acting quite as anti-meta as many of the other mons of the same rank, but instead acting as more of an anti-everything-else, beating down a considerable portion of the A and below mons with its various sets between all three Choice items and Z-move sets. Like Haxorus, it has the option to switch between different sets to take on different threats, namely between physical sets and special sets, both of which taking on considerably different groupings of Pokemon. While it does struggle considerably more against the top threats of 1v1 than Haxorus does, it also has much better matchups against the mid-to-lower ranks, which puts these two on a relatively similar standing, in my opinion.
I could agree on this, but seeing Pokemon like Mega Lopunny, Naganadel, Incineroar and Necrozma there, I don't see how Krookodile is as viable as any of those.... The Pokemon I mentioned aren't confined to beating "just a good portion of the upper ranked Pokemon" but can also hold its own against lower tier Pokemon, a trait I find lacking in Krookodile.....
Krookodile
Possibly raise to B. Between TDA's beloved Physically Defensive set and dom's Choice Scarf set, Krookodile definitely has some options at its disposal, both of which take on a considerable number of relevant and viable threats. Like Haxorus, it switches between its sets to take on different groups of threatening Pokemon you anticipate it having to deal with, except, in Krookodile's case, both of its sets are more attuned towards beating the upper ranks, which puts it more in line with Ambipom as a strictly anti-meta Pokemon. That said, the cumulative wins that both sets bring in are too considerable to ignore, especially keeping in mind that neither of them really sacrifice too much in favor of running the other, and because of that, I believe Krookodile could be a viable contender for B.
I can't believe Latias-M is ranked this high.. Similar traits to Krookodile, just much worse, and not just because it cannot hold a Z-Crystal... Most of its viable "Other Options" moves are really gimmicky sets, which aren't much viable outside the very limited number of Pokemon it beats.. I don't think it should move up and stay in B-; IMO, it should fall to C+, where it fits in with Mega Gengar
Latias-Mega
Adequate. Latias is a bit of a peculiar case. Despite having multiple moves that people are familiar with, it doesn't really have much of an established presence besides vague "reflect type" or "charm/cm" sets. Despite this lack of common mainstream sets, Latias is capable of racking up a considerable number of wins through bulk and type advantage alone, namely Charizard-Y, Landorus-Therian, Donphan, Heatran, etc. The main problem Latias faces is that it needs particular moves and sets for many of the notably relevant threats in 1v1, such as Stored Power + Reflect Type + Calm Mind for Magearna, Specially Defensive Reflect Type for Greninja, Stored Power + Calm Mind for Magnezone, Slowbro, Togekiss, and Clefable, Draco Meteor for Kommo-o and Garchomp, Charm for non-DD Charizard-X, Crustle, Incineroar, etc. Much like Kyurem, it struggles at covering a large portion of its cumulative matchups within each individual set, and, for that reason, I believe B- is fine for it.
FWIW, Manaphy looks pretty much at home in B-. Between its two sets, it serves a niche, into which it is not strictly trapped though..... Tail Glow, Calm Mind, Acid Armor all serve as fantastic tools on Manaphy
Manaphy
Debatable. Manaphy is another flexible Pokemon with only one or two mainstream sets, like Kyurem and Latias, however, it lacks the viable recovery that these two have, instead opting to run Rest, if it even wants to heal. Instead, Manaphy has Tail Glow to set it apart from the bulky dragons, making it an incredibly powerful threat after a turn or two of setup. That said, it also does have the tools to go defensive with Acid Armor/Charm and Calm Mind, at the expense of its immediate offensive capability. With all these options at its disposal, Manaphy can find a way to beat many Pokemon across all ranks, though it has to be built with differing individual sets in order to handle multiple different groups and archetypes of Pokemon, which really cuts back on the overall viability each set can have. I could see Manaphy either rising or falling, based on how people may interpret its flexibility, and whether or not it sacrifices too much with each set.
o3o
Pheromosa
Possibly raise to B. In talking about possible Pheromosa sets with the QC team for its pending analysis, I found that Choice Band actually nabs a lot more relevant KOs than I initially thought, namely Charizard with Giga Impact and Kommo-o, Garchomp, and Charizard-X with Outrage. Beyond that, it also has alternative sets like Choice Specs, Fightinium Z, Icium Z, etc that allow it to cumulatively take on a large chunk of most ranks, though nothing besides Choice Band really covers as generally wide of a selection of threats. The flexibility of being able to bounce back and forth between sets as well as their overall reliability make me believe Pheromosa could be a viable contender for B.
;p Jkjk, I agree with Pheromosa ranking higher, coz with RegiSerp cores rising, it fills a decent role of reliably beating those two.. Between that and CScarf reducing in usage, it beats many Pokemon like Specs/Torrent Gren, Meloetta, Genesect, LopunnyM, Zeraora....
Hard disagree.... Calm Mind and Laser Focus is such a dope set for Raikou and takes on Tapu Lele, Mega Gardevoir, Choice Specs Greninja and Magearna....
Raikou
Possibly drop to C+. Raikou rose in popularity due to its perceived ability to take on multiple high ranked threats of 1v1, between Charizard-Y, Gyarados, Magearna, Tapu Lele, Magnezone, etc, however, this mon is very stretched regarding things it needs to EV for; needing way too much SpA for specially bulky mons like Magearna, Meloetta, Lele, Metagross, Gardevoir, etc; needing way too much physical bulk to take attacks from mons like Metagross, Mawile, Crustle, Incineroar, etc; and needing a ton of Speed to outspeed what it needs to between Zard-Y, Kartana, Jumpluff, etc. While it can beat all of these things individually, it just cannot do so in a single spread, and it sacrifices a lot of potential wins in picking one given spread over another, in addition to not really having that many cumulative wins across all of its differing spreads. For this reason, I feel Raikou may need to drop to C+ until someone can produce an optimized set that takes on everything it needs to (I tried, and couldn't make it happen).
Raikou @ Electrium Z
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 200 HP / 172 SpA / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Laser Focus
- Snarl
- Zap Cannon
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 200 HP / 172 SpA / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Laser Focus
- Snarl
- Zap Cannon
I got only few words for this : I HATE YOU justrav . . . . . Also, yeah I support its rise to B. It's great, is fast and fat, Leech Seed SubTect and Leaf Storm makes it the literal "balance" Pokemon in the tier rn..... Screens could help it in a few MUs, but yeah.... SeedStorm is the best one now, beating most S through B+, and not completely falling apart at lower ranks.....
Serperior
Possibly raise to B. Serperior has blown up as of late, on account of Ravonne using it on nearly every team during LT, which has raised enough attention for people to start realizing that it's actually a good mon. Serperior's main niche comes from its ability to act as a SubSeeder to rival the likes of Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and Tapu Bulu, however, what it lacks in Sleep use, priority, or raw power, it makes up for in the excellent ability Contrary, allowing it to 2/3HKO most Pokemon that lack means of boosting SpD. Similar to Scizor, the main problem Serperior faces stems from the dominant Pokemon that happen to run 1v1 all coincidentally smacking it, namely Charizard, Dragonite, Porygon-Z, Greninja, Meloetta, Kommo-o, etc. Despite suffering all these losses from top tier threats, I still feel Serperior has made its reliability against everything else quite clear, warranting at least B rank.
Now, BULU IS WRECKAGE GOD WHY IS IT LANGUISHING IN B- WTF..... Between its SpD set, SDance and Grassy Terrain, it wrecks through the non-resisting meta like a freight train, while it tanks a decent amount.... Beats (1/5) S rank, (1/2) A+ rank, (5/7) A rank, (4/6) A- rank, (8/16) B+ rank, (4/14) B rank Pokemon, which makes it (23/52) which is more than 40%, which I feel should be the threshold for a Pokemon to stay in the same rank, so I guess despite my initial rage, B- suits Bulu fine WoA is sad
Tapu Bulu
Adequate. As a Grass type, Tapu Bulu falls under a similar category as Serperior, Scizor, Metagross, Celesteela, etc, all being Pokemon that would be so much better off if Charizard didn't exist. This one in particular packs a mighty wallop with Grassy Terrain-boosted Grass moves, such to the extent that SubSeed isn't as much of a crutch for it as it is for Jumpluff, Whimsicott, and certain Serperior sets. Unlike Serperior, though, it lacks a considerable chunk of Speed that it needs for outspeeding many threats like Tapu Lele, Mew, Zygarde, Landorus, etc, in addition to the fact that its Fairy typing actually acts as more of an inhibitor, giving it extra weaknesses to the threatening Steel types like Metagross, Magnezone, and Celesteela, as well as an autoloss to anyone who cteams you with a Poison move. Because of this, I believe it's fair for Bulu to stay about a notch or two below Serperior (assuming it rises), to make the difference between these two clear.
What I can think of while differentiating Viv and HoopaU is that Viv is pretty one-D, it is only a speed trap as of now. Hoopa-U on the other hand is either a bulky special attacker, a fast physical attacker, or a mixed attacker... HoopaU is defo way more versatile than Viv can be, esp if current meta trend is the one to prevail till gen7 ends.. Also, Vivillon is nowhere as bulky as Hoopa-U is, so even if Viv suddenly starts running a bulky set, it cannot match Hoopa-U's bulkiness. This again forces its only niche to be a speed trap, which goes back to the previous point I was describing... So, I strongly feel that Viv should not raise any further
Vivillon
Debatable. Vivillon hasn't really wavered since it was first introduced, though it has somewhat benefitted from Charizard running more spdef sets, allowing it to at least have a chance, even if it does need considerably good sleep rolls to forgo the risk of Flame Charge. Beyond Charizard, all the other matchups that it doesn't either outright win or lose come down to sleep rolls as well, namely Extreme Speed Dragonite, Taunt Gyarados, Bullet Punch Metagross, Extreme Speed Zygarde, etc. A little known fact about Vivillon is that you can actually sacrifice its SpA for SpD to beat most Genesect besides fast Specs and bulk a Kommo-o's Clangorous Soulblaze at +1. Similar to Hoopa-U, Vivillon is notably better at busting up the lower ranks, rather than the upper ones, though it does at least have a chance at rolling its way through a decent chunk of upper ranks. Main downside is that it's pretty one-dimensional, not having much else to do besides Sleep + Sub + Quiver, with the main differences in sets being whether people run Flyinium or Leftovers, which leads me to believe it should stay a notch below Hoopa, personally, unless someone makes a really good case for it.
Hard agree... Zapdos is just WOW... Though I can't see it getting more viable than B, I strongly support its ascent to B, coz Metal Sound, Roost, bulk, Reflect(dom's set), Laser Focus, and great offensive and defensive typing, along with good coverage moves in Heat Wave and HP Ice, just makes it very versatile and splashable...
Zapdos
Possibly raise to B. Zapdos is weird. It's got intermediate stats across the board, besides moderately high Speed and SpA. It can do a few things between killing with Electrium Z and its coverage moves as well as stalling with Substitute and Toxic, and any given combination of the previous two. The biggest plus it gets over any other Electric type 1v1 mon is the ability to bulk hits and heal, giving it much better longevity over others of the same type, namely the ability to outlast Pokemon like Charizard-X without offensive setup, Special Dragonite (maybe even physical with Reflect?), Metagross, Landorus, etc. That said, Zapdos does struggle at covering everything within a single set, like Raikou, though cumulatively, it covers a much broader variety of threats than it, across each possible (viable) setup of moves and spreads. This kind of flexibility puts it moreso in line with Blaziken, in terms of being able to pick what you want to beat with it, but each Zapdos set also covers a much broader niche than most of Blaziken's often particularly built sets. For these reasons, I believe Zapdos merits B at least.
How osra does these goddamned long posts is beyond me.....
e1 : I agree (without any strong opinions to support my stance) on all the noms I have chosen not to respond
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Remove Fake Out to outpace Zone. Hrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmm.
ok onto actual noms:
Ambipom does things. It should stay, and I think Ambipom is a good standard of B-. It has 2 potentially viable sets, and together they cover a good amount of the meta, in particular, several high ranked Pokemon.
Archeops is strong. It should stay. It does what it needs to do and its good at it, save for missing. then again its still better than durant's 64% stone edges.
MErupt is good. It should stay. Reliability is the name of the game, and with really only one decent set, merupt does all its needs to with one set, potentially with a couple move changes but generally the same set.
MSwampert is decent. It should stay or rise.
The S in Deoxys-S stands for Speed. It has 2 definitely viable sets.
Haxorus breaks molds. It should stay. It isn't the best dragon type, but it does what it needs to do.
MBurningChicken is ok. It should stay or drop. It's too frail to set up reliably, and doesnt have the most amazing stats to back its power, along with the fact that it can't hold an item.
Raikou is pretty nice. despite facing competition from Zeraora, it still stands out as its own mon. Why? ryy and whatever woa said.
Latias mega is actually ok. It is like any other set up staller, like maudino, but it has a move that can actually hit things (with Stored Power and Draco Meteor) and speed, and also reflect type. while it can't exactly fit it all in one set, cm roost and any other two moves is generally enough to handle most pokemon. Also, 252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sorry kaif ;p)
Archeops is strong. It should stay. It does what it needs to do and its good at it, save for missing. then again its still better than durant's 64% stone edges.
MErupt is good. It should stay. Reliability is the name of the game, and with really only one decent set, merupt does all its needs to with one set, potentially with a couple move changes but generally the same set.
MSwampert is decent. It should stay or rise.
The S in Deoxys-S stands for Speed. It has 2 definitely viable sets.
Haxorus breaks molds. It should stay. It isn't the best dragon type, but it does what it needs to do.
MBurningChicken is ok. It should stay or drop. It's too frail to set up reliably, and doesnt have the most amazing stats to back its power, along with the fact that it can't hold an item.
Raikou is pretty nice. despite facing competition from Zeraora, it still stands out as its own mon. Why? ryy and whatever woa said.
Latias mega is actually ok. It is like any other set up staller, like maudino, but it has a move that can actually hit things (with Stored Power and Draco Meteor) and speed, and also reflect type. while it can't exactly fit it all in one set, cm roost and any other two moves is generally enough to handle most pokemon. Also, 252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 276-326 (75.8 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sorry kaif ;p)
Pheromosa has an outstanding attack so it should be ranked higher!!
Hoopa:U is busted :U. It has very reliable matchups, in particular its band and bulky specs set.
Serperior should be B+ at least. It's faster than jumpluff, its tankier than jumpluff, arguably has a better typing than jumpluff, isnt shut down remotely by taunt, has offensive power to back itself up.
Hoopa:U is busted :U. It has very reliable matchups, in particular its band and bulky specs set.
Serperior should be B+ at least. It's faster than jumpluff, its tankier than jumpluff, arguably has a better typing than jumpluff, isnt shut down remotely by taunt, has offensive power to back itself up.
MDiancie is weak. it should be moved lower. Its moves aren't that strong and it simply doesnt have the coverage or stats (particularly bulk) to do much. while it potentially can beat all s mons besides magearna, it cannot do it reliably. outside of beating the charizards it does not have much potential.
Golem does nothing. It should stay or drop. if a pokemon does less than another higher ranked mon (cough donPhan) there is no reason for its existence unfortunately. Wrath of Alakazam smack down is v nice but outside of celesteela theres not much point. as for the 'anti heatran' set, you literally made an anti heatran donphan set, so...just another thing they both share.
MStoise simply is not good. it should be moved lower. as osra mentioned, it stretches itself too thin to take on particular threats, and even if it could combine all its sets into one, it doesn't cover that much.
MAudino is p h a t. It should stay or drop. Audino is higher than chansey? this makes me uncomfortable. It has good stats, but any pokemon with taunt or boosting moves have a decent winning shot.
MScizor has no defining features. it has a cool typing except it gets bopped by anything with a fire move. It shouldn't exist. There are too many bad sets that don't do as much as you'd expect or want from a B- mon.
Golem does nothing. It should stay or drop. if a pokemon does less than another higher ranked mon (cough donPhan) there is no reason for its existence unfortunately. Wrath of Alakazam smack down is v nice but outside of celesteela theres not much point. as for the 'anti heatran' set, you literally made an anti heatran donphan set, so...just another thing they both share.
MStoise simply is not good. it should be moved lower. as osra mentioned, it stretches itself too thin to take on particular threats, and even if it could combine all its sets into one, it doesn't cover that much.
MAudino is p h a t. It should stay or drop. Audino is higher than chansey? this makes me uncomfortable. It has good stats, but any pokemon with taunt or boosting moves have a decent winning shot.
MScizor has no defining features. it has a cool typing except it gets bopped by anything with a fire move. It shouldn't exist. There are too many bad sets that don't do as much as you'd expect or want from a B- mon.
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correction: MDiancie is frail. it should not be moved lower. Beating zards kommo-o garchomp and most of the dragon gang is a really great niche. Beating grounds such as
also holy fuck its been like a day that I don't look at this deadass thread and we have a long page of discussion good job osra
While mega diance is frail, 150 def/spdef is nothing to laugh at, and this bulk can allow a turn of set up on some sets where it can eat a hit non mega, calm mind up, and then ko in mega
This is what i mean. Its unreliable, hence, unworthy of B-. While to some this might seem like it means that ‘it has potential’ or otherwise, in reality it means that its not good enough at what it does to solidify itself in B-
Give me 3 examples where this is actually relevant and reliable.
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 288-342 (87 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 276-326 (114.5 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 210-248 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados-Mega: 432-510 (130.5 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO
thats pretty relevant.
Jabiru
formerly ThatCabbageGuy
Real shame then that nearly every Mega Gyarados runs dragon dance and the vast majority run at least the 144 speed ev's to outspeed Mega Diancie after a +1.
Rock Tomb.
While this does usually beat mgyara, in my experience you can still lose to bad rolls in addition to sacrificing a slot that could be used for Magnet Rise or earth power, both good moves
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