What exactly are you implying about my actual cousin?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread
- Thread starter MikeDawg
- Start date
I get that you're bashing Batista (and the US support of him), but at the same time you're doing it in a way that basically mocks Cubans from fleeing Castro? It's like you're victim-blaming. I know this isn't your intention and I don't want to get into a fight over it, but your words are still kinda weird and potentially harmful.
(sidenote, I do think a lot of Bernie's comments about Castro have been blown out of proportion and it's very clear he doesn't support any regime. But I'd still hope that none of us would actually want to make fun of people actually fleeing Castro.)
im not implying shit about ur cousin. just noting that the bulk of the initial wave of exiles consisted of rich white supporters of the batista regime, which might make one wonder if they fled the regime because it was actually awful or simply because it was against their interests. not a comment on their descendents or people who fled the regime for other reasons, just dont like to see people blindly swallowing US propaganda (this is not coming from a fan of the castro regime or whatever)
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
A substantial portion of Bernie's supporters weren't even old enough to vote until 2016.
I'm not projecting just because you're an obvious exception.
Gotta agree with von that it’s time to come to terms with the fact that Biden is most likely the nominee. He wasn’t my first choice (or even third, voted for Bernie in MN cause Liz had no chance, also liked Amy more), but pretending he is the equivalent of Trump and refusing to vote for him is a) incredibly privileged and b) problematic for progressive policy long term. In regards to a, Donald Trump’s executive orders have lead to what are by the legal definition, concentration camps on our southern border for Central Americans seeking asylum from the fault out of American intervention in their governments. Even though Obama’s immigration policy was far from perfect, a “return to Obama era policy” would end the aspects of ice which border on genocidal (family separation policy, indefinite holding without trial). “I won’t vote for joe Biden because he isn’t good” is an incredibly selfish response to the situation playing out in our country, even though I concede I do not find Biden “good”. As for b, there are currently 2 liberal justices over the age of 80 (Notorious RBG and Breyer), 4 more years of Trump means that you potentially end up with a 7-2 conservative (read: federalist society) majority until at least 2050 given that Clarence may give him the opportunity to replace him as well. We are 0-1 more conservative justices from the stripping of a woman’s right to control her own body. 1-2 conservative justices away from all the progress for LGBT citizens have made due to the courts being overturned. Corporations would continue to be people for all legal purposes until then. And if you want Medicare for all, too bad because the federalist society says it’s not allowed. And this doesn’t even mention all the lower courts that will be fucked by fed society judges. If the Republicans manage to corrupt the judiciary branch with conservative activist judges, which is the one political move trump is actually successfully making, it is game over for America as a functioning democratic republic. Does it suck to have to vote for Joe Biden (assuming it comes to that)? Yes. Do I feel sympathetic to you feeling icky about voting for him? Sure. Are you shortsighted and selfish if you don’t? Absolutely.
Besides you should be voting in November anyways to keep the house and flip the senate (if you don’t think Biden can win you definitely want to do this regardless). Not to mention voting in State races (2020 is a census year so maps gets redrawn!) and other local races. If you’re in the voting booth anyways you may as well vote against the imminent danger to the country even if his opponent is a milquetoast and boring moderate.
Besides you should be voting in November anyways to keep the house and flip the senate (if you don’t think Biden can win you definitely want to do this regardless). Not to mention voting in State races (2020 is a census year so maps gets redrawn!) and other local races. If you’re in the voting booth anyways you may as well vote against the imminent danger to the country even if his opponent is a milquetoast and boring moderate.
What is your families opinion on him in general? I’ve sort of just assumed Cubans wouldn’t support Bernie but I’d like to get your perspective
If Bernie does not become the candidate, then the Democratic party has no chance of securing my vote. This party does not represent any of my politics, and neither does the Republican party. The two party system has failed time and time again, and it will fail as long as it stays as the main system of this country's shitty political world.
I will take my useless "symbolic" vote towards someone that holds my ideals, rather than voting for an evil person versus another evil person.
I would also insert something rude here, but this is a pokemon forum. So I hope your entire team is grounded versus two layers of toxic spikes while your team lacks heal bell or a toxapex.
I will take my useless "symbolic" vote towards someone that holds my ideals, rather than voting for an evil person versus another evil person.
I would also insert something rude here, but this is a pokemon forum. So I hope your entire team is grounded versus two layers of toxic spikes while your team lacks heal bell or a toxapex.
You guys really renamed it the salt thread lmao
Biden has surged for the same reason Republicans tend to do better than expected: the silent majority. There’s just a lot more centrist Dems and never-Trump moderates who liked Biden the most, or disliked him the least. Most old Dems are closer to the center so of course they’re going to pick the old centrist. Especially when most of them want nothing to do with socialism and its related policies. Not to mention that most people who really liked Obama will have no problem voting for Joe.
At this point it’s extremely unlikely that Bernie gets the nomination, to the extent that I, and many politicians, have already ruled it out as a possibility. It’s why they’re jumping on the Biden bandwagon, they want to unite the democrat base ASAP and spend the rest of the time campaigning against Trump. But if Biden keeps acting the way he does, whether when interacting with the base or saying dumb crap in debates, then Trump is going to crush him.
I’ll have more thoughts once the DNC publicly announces its nomination. Anyone know what time of the year they’re expected to announce it?
Biden has surged for the same reason Republicans tend to do better than expected: the silent majority. There’s just a lot more centrist Dems and never-Trump moderates who liked Biden the most, or disliked him the least. Most old Dems are closer to the center so of course they’re going to pick the old centrist. Especially when most of them want nothing to do with socialism and its related policies. Not to mention that most people who really liked Obama will have no problem voting for Joe.
At this point it’s extremely unlikely that Bernie gets the nomination, to the extent that I, and many politicians, have already ruled it out as a possibility. It’s why they’re jumping on the Biden bandwagon, they want to unite the democrat base ASAP and spend the rest of the time campaigning against Trump. But if Biden keeps acting the way he does, whether when interacting with the base or saying dumb crap in debates, then Trump is going to crush him.
I’ll have more thoughts once the DNC publicly announces its nomination. Anyone know what time of the year they’re expected to announce it?
Just teasing my dude. Batista was my cousin but I get it, the US backed dictator stuff and all that.
It's split. A few of my family members support Trump, and a few support Bernie. Some support both Trump and Bernie, but not anyone else. There are actually none that support Biden. There was one who supported Warren but she's a "I vote for the woman" voter so
I found that family members who were previously terrified of Bernie grew to like him when they realized what his actual positions were. Plus, they love the fact that Bernie is an Independent. To many Cubans, the word "democrat" is poisonous as there a strong association with democratic party and Bay of Pigs.
What termi said is pretty accurate. You could usually tell a Cuban's politics based on their wave. Contrary to popular belief, Cubans aren't solidly Republican. I think moreso, first wave Cubans are solidly Republican and they are the ones with the loudest voices who vote the most.
Second and especially Third wave Cubans tend to actually be a lot more left wing than people expect, but in my experience and from general trends they tend to be: 1- less educated, 2- working class, 3- generally younger. AKA not a very solid voting block unfortunately. Vs first wave that is very consistent in voting.
First wavers are pretty much Trumpers and super fired up by Trump. I'd say third wavers actually lean Bernie more and think favorably of communism. Second wave is a mix but slightly leans left. There may be some affinity for Biden in second wavers due to obamacare and the association to it, but a lot of poor cubans are on medicare or medicaid especially with the (only recently revoked for newcomers) status of having access to gov programs without taking conventional routes to citizenship. def an affinity to medicare for all among this group of Cubans.
As the rest of the country, generational divides are very present too. Miami has a case of conservative older folks and liberal/left leaning kids.
Which btw, I speak for Miami Cubans (largest concentartion of Cubans in the country) but I know there's a few other places that have Cubans that I don't know too well.
edit:
overall Miami Cubans will likely support Trump at the voting booth. but I think if you consider all cubans, including the ones who didnt vote, its actually split
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
No need to ask for anecdotal evidence from a die-hard Bernie fan:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-sanders-split-latinos-in-florida-and-arizona
But if you guys want to believe Machoke instead of polling, have fun. I just read 6 pages of "You're stupid if you think Bernie is gonna lose the primary!" so...
did you miss the part about the fact that second and third wavers dont vote and by extension prob wouldnt get polled lmao
among the few first wavers that are democrats compared to supporting trump yeah theyd obv go for biden over bernie.
also seems like cubans will vote trump over biden and bernie. like I said.
and Im not a die-hard bernie fan lmao he was my second choice among the candidates I just far preferred him to people like biden so uh yeah
Last edited:
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
You can't speak about "trends". That's the job of data analysts.
You can provide anecdotal evidence (which I acknowledged), but that's not very useful when discussing millions of people. That's how we get, "How is Bernie losing? Literally everyone I know hates Biden/Hillary, so it must be rigged!" I wouldn't have said anything if you didn't transition from your family to the wide-sweeping claim of:
Machoke said:
Also you don't have to vote to get polled. That's why there are often crosstabs re: likely/unlikely voters.
Last edited:
or maybe I know the community Ive grown my whole life in, my family is from, Ive studied, and Ive done tons of advocacy work in better than some rando online who has an active interest in trying to put me down cuz he has a vendetta vs bernie supporters or whatever
also I literally checked the study, did you?
"A total of 625 registered Hispanic voters statewide were interviewed live by telephone in Florida. All indicated they were likely to vote in the 2020 election. Those interviewed were randomly selected from a phone-matched Florida voter registration list that included both land-line and cell phone numbers "
again, when I was talking about support among left wing ideals I was talking about second/third wave cubans who I specifically said very much did NOT vote compared to first wave cubans, and therefore this poll doesnt reflect this population as it gathered from registered, likely to vote hispanic voters (the whole sample wasnt even only of cubans) and therefore a large percentage of first wave cubans who obv support conservatism like Trump as shown in the poll and biden next cuz they hate bernie.
but whatever, I get it. you dont give a fuck about voter suppression and barriers to people getting registered or voting ot being connected to political processes like the widespread suppression that's been happening cuz it suits your political positioning (at least in the primary), as noted by ur gloating about young people not turning out when you fundamentally misunderstand the very things in place preventing their turnout. go ahead and conveniently erase late migrant cubans, working class cubans, young cubans, etc. the only cubans that matter are apparently the first wavers that overwhemingly prefer trump and have biden at a very distant second over bernie. Thatll pwn the bernie broz!!!111
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Cool it with the "rando with an active interest in trying to put me down" line. That's my thing.
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
Wait I just read this half of your post (you're right on the first part, I misread the poll), and now I'm confused again.
What in the world is stopping young people from voting in the primary? Genuine question. Bernie fans keep saying this, and I keep asking why, but nobody has given an answer besides, "Young people have jobs and classes to attend," which is ridiculously dumb for obvious reasons.
Also that's a really big leap from "this poll says Biden wins Florida" to "YOU DONT CARE ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION", but okay.
dog what are you talking about, biden has proposed mike 'literal republican' bloomberg to head the world bank. This is the man who just weeks ago everyone, bernie and biden supporters included, have called racist. You really have faith he is going to nominate liberal judges? All this time you've been thinking that a democrat in office = more progressiver, yet the entire country is becoming provably more right wing. Obama picked up biden specifically because he is cozy with republicans and would garner more votes with republican-leaning centrists, now you think biden being the actual president this time means a return to a liberal obama era?
The liberal party is so unliberal, Trump is running to the left of you clowns. He is proposing to not cut away your social security, while biden will. And biden has tried to for like 20 years, so for the first time maybe ever Trump is not lying. You're so bad Trump doesn't even have to lie to make you look bad.
You really have too much faith in the democratic machination, that you think all it takes to further a progressive agenda is to simply slap a blue label on yourself, and then nominating and hiring progressives is magically going to be an inevitable outcome. Respect ideology, reject platitudes.
Vote Bill Weld 2020
Last edited:
Thanks for the dose of Republican propaganda.
For now, it’s clear Joe is favored over Trump in November for two reasons:
- President tends to run even to slightly behind their party in Presidential years
- Trump is still the most unpopular incumbent in the modern era
This dynamic has no signs of improving by fall, considering how badly Trump botched the coronavirus response and how baked in his incompetence is. The evidence points to another Democratic wave election.
The last time Democrats held a significant generic ballot edge heading into a Presidential election was 2008.
I’m pretty heartbroken Bernie (most likely) won’t be the nominee. We still owe him a great debt for how he’s helped shift the Democratic platform left and bring progressivism back in to the mainstream of American politics, and none of us should stop fighting that fight.
Having said that, let’s try to come together and get Biden into the White House. It’s imperative we get a competent, compassionate and functional government installed in America again.
I’m not going to pretend Biden as an individual passes a progressive purity test or that he hits every bullet point on my list, but theoretically his cabinet makeup should be similar to Obama’s, and I would definitely feel safer with that the current regime in control.
Also, raising the minimum wage, abolishing private prisons, enacting common sense gun control, DACA, and addressing climate change are all policies we can and should get behind.
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/joe-biden/
https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/
Having said that, let’s try to come together and get Biden into the White House. It’s imperative we get a competent, compassionate and functional government installed in America again.
I’m not going to pretend Biden as an individual passes a progressive purity test or that he hits every bullet point on my list, but theoretically his cabinet makeup should be similar to Obama’s, and I would definitely feel safer with that the current regime in control.
Also, raising the minimum wage, abolishing private prisons, enacting common sense gun control, DACA, and addressing climate change are all policies we can and should get behind.
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/joe-biden/
https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/
cant wait for another cabinet of wall street elites lol
Is this when I say I told you so?
MikeDawg
Banned deucer.
politics understander Biden's platform is more progressive than Obama's, so I don't know how he wouldn't be a return to "liberal Obama era".
I guess you're right in the sense that it would be more liberal than the Obama era.
Also dude's a Trump supporter. I can't believe you're all buying into his comment. lmao Anything to "own the libs", am I right?
I guess you're right in the sense that it would be more liberal than the Obama era.
Also dude's a Trump supporter. I can't believe you're all buying into his comment. lmao Anything to "own the libs", am I right?